91. From Overwhelm to Ownership

Lau
Secrets from a coach thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace, your weekly podcast with Debbie green of wish fish, and Laura Thomson-Staveley of phenomenal training. Deb's ... Lau you alright? Yeah, but busy  - lots going on.

Debs
Tell me more Lau.

Lau
We know that moment where you think right have I sent that email? Have I done that report? Yeah. Have I got that done? Oh, God, I supposed to lots of stone by this point. Have we booked a holiday yet? Have we done this? Have we done that? And then WhatsApp messages come through? And my goodness Deb's it's very easy to feel like you are constantly dealing with the wolf at the door, isn't it in terms of task and time management?

Debs
Yeah, definitely. And I think the word you're probably using to want to sum up, how you're feeling is this feeling of overwhelmed as well with everything that's going on around you? Because that's what's going on. It's that feeling that you've got so much to do. But you haven't necessarily got enough mental energy in which to do it. So it's that feeling of overwhelmed and you're not alone law, you're definitely not alone at the moment?

Lau
Well, it definitely seems to be something that is a kind of topic of its time. And I picked up a really interesting anecdote from some team stuff I was doing early this week. So as we know, the focus this month is a four part look at the wonderful world of time management and achieving some semblance of life work balance, in these unprecedented times that are continuing to throw us interesting challenges and opportunities, etc. So we've looked at personal time management. Last week, we were looking at the link between managing expectations and avoiding a blame game to erupt and turning everything nasty. And then today's focus is looking at our how do we reduce and deal with those feelings of being overwhelmed, and that kind of pressure kind of building up. And it was really insightful. This conversation I had as part of a manufacturing team, or a team that have to go around and kind of check factories, etc. And for the first time, since the pandemic, so for the first time, in two and a half years, they were able to go out and inspect factories, again, in other countries. And it was really interesting listening to the overwhelm, and the pressure and the impact that was having on their well being and their happiness and their general sense of confidence. Because back in the day pre pandemic, you'd have gone and done your factory visit. So it always felt busy. But in that hotel in the evening, you would then get your report done, send it out to everyone job, don't go to bed next day you do your next factory visit. But now, because the nature of their roles has changed, they now have limited admin support. There's now three times as many products that they're now dealing with as a team. So the scale of business has kind of ramped up. So what's now happening is they get back from their factory visit sitting in the hotel, they then have to spend five, six hours getting on top of the emails, and all of the influx of information that's come through while they've been fully present in the factory tour. And the basically, the team weren't getting to bed until two, three o'clock in the morning, then doing the factory reports. And as I was listening to them talking, I was thinking my dad was doing factory visits and writing reports in the 80s. Wow, where there was no digitization of work, actually, could this be an opportunity to have a fundamental rethink about how are we doing what we work? Because it seems like there's a lot of people at the moment where these two worlds of work are colliding. There's the old world and these old processes. And this is how we used to do stuff that's now colliding with this new world of faster, harder, scale it up, we've got International, we've got digital, and then you got the poor human in the middle thinking, I literally have not got the time to physically handle the amount of workload that you know, I need to kind of that has been put at my door. So we were having lots of conversations as a team and just asking the key question, how clear Are you on the information that people are expecting from these tools? And actually, people don't ask the question, what is it that actually people are going to read? What do they want?

Debs
What do they need? Yeah,

Lau
I just thought I would sort of start that off by thinking, you know, just asking your thoughts, because you have such fascinating conversations as well. To what extent do we have a whole group of people at the moment who are stuck between these two worlds old ways of working with expectations, and yet these new levels of pressure that people have got?

Debs
Yeah, I think that's spot on actually law because when you think people sort of came out of work went straight into a pandemic. So for some of those relationships they had, and we were talking to somebody earlier about this today, you know, they left them in inverted commas, pre pandemic, then they may or may not have contacted them very much, maybe a little bit of contact. So when they come back into contact now, in their minds, they're remembering them for like two and a half three years ago, without concern During if you like what's going on for them? How busy are they have, they still got those support that they might need to be able to work effectively? So, again, people hadn't necessarily shifted, as you said, the silly old ways of working, because that's what we know. And that's what's safe for us. Because that's how we've always done it. So it surely should work now. But as you're saying that you know, the person you've been talking to is realising that actually, that doesn't work. So how do people think about reestablishing the expectations? As we said, reach out, ask, find out what is expected of me now? What do you want to see in a report, for instance? Or what do you see me reporting back to you on so that you create clarity and have some certainty in what it is that is expected of you. And I think that helps. Because, you know, when we look at some of the signs and the triggers that lead into feeling overwhelmed, burnout is another word that keeps getting sort of around at the moment, but mainly the overwhelm. You know, the things like, the pressure that we're putting on ourselves, because it's a state of mind is not a condition. But the pressure that's becoming the innate makes us feel as if we're overwhelmed with stuff. And we probably are, because we just haven't got the headspace, as I was called it to deal with it, you know, link back into then how do you look after yourself. So some of the signs that you may be moving towards or feeling a sense of overwhelm? Is that potentially that negative self talk, oh, my God, I used to be able to work and get the reports out, for instance, using your example. Now, I can't maybe I'm not very good at my job, so that your negative self talk starts to ramp up a little bit, you act like you're feeling maybe a little bit more angry or irritated or frustrated at the fact that you can't get done what you used to get done, and that you're feeling like you're letting people down. You have odd sleep patterns. So you know, if you're saying your work, people are adding on an extra five hours to their natural working day, that's a lot of work. So those it will impact on our sleep patterns as well, which is no good for any of us, because we all need sleep. Which can lead into that trouble with saying no, when which sometimes does happen, because they feel that if I don't do it, then I'm not going to be recognised and Oh, my goodness, it just goes on and on. So we have to think about catching ourselves. If you're not, if we started to talk negatively, or we asleep not being good, or we're eating unhealthy or different patterns, you know, with the way that we're eating, we're losing track of what we are supposed to be doing. And that focus isn't there. Or we just think oh my god, I don't know if I can get out of bed today. There's too much. And I think that's what we just need to watch out for, with those emotional shifts that happen within us, which are quite extreme behaviours that we wouldn't normally do before. So these are sort of some of the signs if you'd like to look out for because then that gives you an opportunity to say, Ooh, this isn't right, I need to ask, I need to ask for help. Maybe I need to set the boundaries. Again, I need to establish what is expected of me. So I know what I am doing rather than relying on the old way, because that's not going to help me in the new world of work,

Lau
I think goes to a spot on and now I think there's the bit around that reality check. Is there about actually what is the current analysis? So what is the current state of play? What it actually is the situation? What does that then mean, in terms of what I need more of or less often? Who do I need to influence? How do I have that conversation? And I think it just also is an opportunity to think well actually, if this doesn't change, what then is the consequence, if we put another year in on this, and organisations, everyone, everyone resign or on long term sick because their burn out is no good for anyone commercially or morally. So in this particular point in our, in our in our kind of calendar right now, two and a half years on from when the pandemic very first triggered, and that will be one of many waves of change and transformation that we're going to see. I mean, for anyone that is involved in global trade or supply chain roles, you know, there's huge amounts of disruption and challenge that's ahead as we take advantage of opportunity, etc. And this may be an opportunity just to think a little bit differently about what you're doing. So rather than being like that Panda just stuck with its boundary line, which was the bamboo hedge, so it's kind of there but once that bamboo runs out, if all you've been doing is trying to cope with the day, eating for 18 hours a day like a panda has to do just to get the calories it needs to survive. If you've been sitting there jumping away on old processes that everyone knows needs to be transformed or innovated. But it's just we haven't had the time to do it. Whilst we'll be doing that. Then at some point actually becomes F So stressful that opportunity on that landscape outward. So maybe this is the time to really channel that in a fox mindset, there must be a different way of doing this, there is always a way is having the will to be able to do that. And I know we've got some feedback from one of our wonderful listeners, someone that you've worked with for a while Deb's about sometimes it just takes maybe listening to a podcast like this, or a random chat with someone that just forces you to think a little bit differently. And just have a think about how we could make things easier, more streamlined. So I know, we're gonna hear from a little bit of feedback from a real life listener, which is always inspiring to hear our people have made some changes in their life.

Listener, Jo Digby
My favourite podcast was actually number 46, the healthy hybrid habits. And looking back, that was such a came at such a crucial time back in 2021, August, I believe, and certainly the pre September check in that shield approach on those reflective questions, where he's got just got people thinking before many people started to return to office spaces, that beautiful question of what wisdom will you carry forward for a fresh start in September, using the learning to help move people forwards and thinking and feeling good about it? I think one of the biggest considerations off the back of that podcast for me was, think about how comfortable you are within a real world environment, as well as the virtual environment. And I think that really helped. Not just me, but others that I know around, which just got people thinking a little bit deeper about what that meant for them at that crucial time. Really. So yeah, it was a really, really great podcast really stood out for me, all sensible things really smart, but really achievable. And that's what I love generally about secrets from a coach

Lau
are So from your perspective as a coach Debs, what was it that really struck out from you from what Joe was saying?

Debs
I think, in what she said was reflective questioning, I think that's the bit focus on, you know, what's, what's the wisdom? What am I taking from this was the bit that I really enjoyed when she sort of reflected back. And I think those reflective questions to say, right, what can I do now? What's going to happen now, so as you said, bringing it back into the current state, in the current reality, if you like, enables you to just deal with what is in front of you, rather than try and take it all on, which just increases the feeling of overwhelm. It's being able to, I suppose, by reflectively, questioning, it is controlling again, your emotions that might sit around that feeling of losing it as somebody wants it to me, so challenging our own beliefs about what we, what we can do what we're able to do, how am I going to do that now? Who might I need to speak to? What would be my ideal outcome? So focusing on that can really make a difference? And I think, yeah, you know, the wisdoms, if you like that, I'm gonna learn from that and take forward. I really liked the way she said that. Yeah,

Lau
the brilliant, my, my kind of read on how overwhelmed can kind of build up is, I think, certainly what I find when the fun is stops being fun. And that kind of bars of Oh, yeah, look how productive I'm being, it's amazing how just the smallest thing can then suddenly make that what was exciting. And what felt like a really energising set of events to get involved in suddenly just feels a little bit too much, as you said, that sense of being able to kind of handle it. And I think one of the things that I'm learning to get better at is to really look through those things that falsely appear as urgent. So rather than this wall of work, that is all has to be dealt with, at once, actually turning that into a stepping stone. So what's the very first thing and the next thing and the next thing, so viewing it more as a pathway through progress, rather than this huge, big wall of everything that seems to be calling your attention. And I know you're really hot on this, a lot of the times why things falsely appear urgent, is because you're a bit uncertain about what's required on that, you know, you've either made assumptions as to what someone is wanting as an outcome. Or you're dealing on a timeframe that might have actually, you know, evaporated everyone else's mind. But you're still carrying that timeframe and that pressure in your mind. So I guess, what would be great to get your thoughts on, Deb says, what kind of practical questions have you seen in your time, help people clear through that overwhelm, and deal with, I don't know, a line manager or colleague, someone else in their team? So what are the types of questions that rather than me looking like are moaning about my workload actually enabled me to show that I am passionate to do the job brilliantly. I just need a bit of help in terms of the overwhelm aspects. So what might be some advice for anyone that's thinking you know what I am up against it? I've got to change it. Listening to this has reminded me that if I don't sort it now, it's only going to get More and it's good to start having some impacts, or want to have a conversation. What would your practical tips be Deb's, for handling that conversation? Oh, yeah,

Debs
I think it first of all is sit quietly and think about, well, what do you want to know? So what is it, you need to find out? So once you've sort of done that, as in, I don't know, maybe the answer is I just don't know where to start, which is a bit of a prompt to say, well, how will you find out where you need to start? And it's that bit says, The what, and the how questions enable you to have a conversation to say, right, what's within my control to do something about right now? How am I going to approach that? How do I need to maybe get more creative around that? What might stop me from doing it? And then thinking about who I might need to come along and support me and help me? So I think that they're just a few of those questions that said, you know, what can I do in this moment is going to help, as you said, take that first step forward with it. And then if it's about reaching out to somebody it's asking for help, is just saying right now is owning it really. So you know, right? I've heard people say before, you're right now, I have a feeling of overwhelm. And I'm not quite sure how to navigate my way through that. So can I speak to you about that? So we can be clear together on what's important and what the next step is? And I've never, ever, in all my experience had said, Somebody come back and say, No, they've all wanted to support and help, because they don't want to see that person fall over. And because they just want to see them be the best that they can be. So they the questions come back normally say, what is it you need to focus on? What support Have you got? How can I help you? Again, what might get in your way? How would you overcome that obstacle? Is there anything you need from me? Yeah, how mice being supportive to you, in a, you know, do what you want to happen now. So it brings it right the way back to now? And then obviously, what's the first step? And when will you start that, and then loop back around that says, When you've done that reach out to me, and we can just reflect on what's worked for you? What would you improve upon next time? What are you wisdom, as Joe said, What wisdom are you taking through to the next step, so we just have to slow our brains down and our minds down, because that's the way we can control that emotion, as well. A feeling that, oh, I can't cope. But actually we can if we just slow that slow it down a bit. And I know it feels people will say to me, it feels like counterintuitive, because I've got so much to do and I've got rush, rush rush to get it, but you're telling me is probably better. If I just slow down, take a breath, and then move forward one step at a time. And it's amazing to watch our people get so caught up in the frenzy of it, that they forget they can is how we choose to respond to it as well.

Lau
Debs, I absolutely love it. So it's that shift from overwhelm to ownership?

Debs
Oh, yes, it definitely is. Absolutely.

Lau
That's another team tattoo.

Debs
That one? Yeah. Well put that one. But I love that.

Lau
Don't worry, I'm sure I've got enough growing body space to be able to fit that. Yeah. From from overwhelm to ownership. And, you know, that's part of the responsibility of being a fully grown adult is absolutely. So on the one hand, when you're an adult, you've got to deal with all these blimmin responsibilities and all of these pressures. But on the other hand, you also have the ability to be able to challenge those Yes, facilities. Yeah, to question actually, what what is required here and all of those amazing questions that you gave some examples of, you know, this reminds me of, and I might have talked about this before in a previous episode, but it really stuck with me, was doing some stuff with a team where we had a really great events team that came in and we do these motivational drumming exercises. Yeah. As part of the kind of fun team built at the end of the week, back in the day when you had a week with people. They just couldn't wait to go home on the Friday night. Right? Exactly. At some point in this decade, Debs, we will have a week, a full week with teams at some point. But in the meantime, you get two webinars and a handout.

Debs
Oh, don't forget the podcast too!

Lau
hence the podcast. Continuity, even though no one's got time for lots of kind of continuity at the moment. And there was this musician, who was what was the guy who was kind of leading it and he was so inspiring. And he just said in a throwaway comment about how you can tell the difference between an amateur and a professional musician when they turn up to be a session musician, because an amateur will turn up and think about what can I do and just start making music start making a noise and kind of doing something whereas a professional musician will turn up just listen and watch for a minute and then go What does it need? And then it's the professional that will then decide not what can I do get busy and just piling but when we are being Professional, we're able to use not mood to decide what we do next. But our take on what is the situation? What is our read? What therefore does the situation need, rather than what can I do. And sometimes that overwhelm is not only things falsely appearing urgent, it's not only being completely kind of a bit confused about what might be required, or feeling like you've kind of lost ownership, and you've kind of lost control of it. But also, sometimes we can lock on to some of those mini tasks that actually, in the grand scheme of things aren't the thing that make the biggest difference? Sometimes it's looking at what are the biggest things that make that 8020 difference? And therefore, where's your time best spent?

Debs
Yeah, and, and that's about just sitting down, I think. And I read, I read this somewhere, actually. And I thought, Oh, my God, that I'm going to try that. And it really does work actually, where you write and this, take, like, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, write a list of everything that you think you've got to do. And you look at that page, and then what you do after number three, you just scrub everything else out? Can you focus on the top three. You just put a line through everything past number three, it just crosses out

Lau
VAT return. Yeah, all those HMRC tasks!

Debs
It doesn't mean that go away, though, it just means that today, I'm going to prioritise because they said that, and I actually this was true that the three things that were top of your mind that were causing the, if you like a bit of anxiety, or I must do, they're the things that you automatically write down first. So and then it's the other things that are just things you still need to do at some point. But the three things that are like burning through your brain will be the first three things, you normally would write down three or four things you would write down first, because they're the most urgent,

Lau
you see it's talking my language, three things in your brain. Oh, there we go.

Debs
You see, three bullet points three tire of three, the power three. That's why it works, I think. And then I just thought, Oh, my God. So I tried it. And I wrote down the first three things I had to do, and then had a list about 14 others. And I thought, Well, I'm just going to give it a go, Oh, my God, that sense of, you know, just crossing everything off and go no, no, no, take the three things that I had to do, which otherwise I might have procrastinated on or go, oh, that's I need to do this first, but because it was focusing my mind onto the first three things, and they were the most important, actually, I just felt a sense of relief once I'd done them. And then I thought I could have a look at the others. That's the trick. You have to you can't just ignore the rest of them. You have to go back and then reprioritize and go right, what would be my next top three? So I just thought it was quite cool. Yeah.

Lau
Oh, I love it. Yeah, well, you've been not using fear or guilt as the motivating No,

Debs
no motivator around fear or guilt because that's what it is over. Overwhelm is just a sense of fear that I'm no good, I can't do this. I'm rubbish at my job. No one's gonna employ me rah, rah, rah rah, rah, rah rah, all that negativity, which doesn't help us.

Lau
Yeah, I think sometimes just reminding that we are a whole being, aren't we, it's our physical self, as well as our kind of professional self, you know, it's all kind of housed in that same amazing house that is our body and our mind. I think sometimes, I mean, I know you're a great advocate of this, just taking a breath, pour yourself a glass of water, just change your view, and sometimes getting away from that screen. And getting away from that influx of tasks. That may feel like an open sewer, coming into your office or your workspace. And actually just getting away from it, it's amazing how sometimes a little break can just break the spell it can hold over us, because you are more than just the tasks that you happen to have achieved today. And you are more than the sum of your parts in terms of you know, just the tasks that you've done, there may actually be way out of your control, because you may be one Lincoln a whole series of a chain of events, and being able to convert from and shift from overwhelm to ownership. I think that is a really nice little motto to kind of leave us like that.

Debs
Yeah, I like that. And I think that just to add on that I think Lau that whole been around, you know, we are a whole human. So we have to look after our well being and our mental health because that's where the overwhelm sits is in our mental state. So how do we change that state so we can, you know, practice that resilience and overcoming stuff and being able to plan and, and sometimes I know, one of the techniques that I got taught years and years ago was to absolutely just do a physiological side. So if you take a big deep breath in and you literally just sigh it out, actually, it reduces and releases some of the stress that you may be hanging on to in your shoulders. So it's just that massive side law, or whatever you might do your site. Yeah, I have no idea. But it's that bit around then that links into our breath, because then we're focusing back into take breath in. So then we can breathe out again. And it's just that process of calming Ask our state down so that we can be more prepared and ready for the next bit as a way of looking at our own resilience as well.

Lau
You know, I remember you did that with our team. Do you remember we were all up against it. We were there, big extended team, there's about 16 of us all on kind of whatever, weekly Wednesday, yeah, we cling on to each other during the kind of the heights of the lockdown, etc. And I remember you got us all to do that, we will have to do this big kind of yogic kind of sigh out and it did feel good, because I don't think you realise until that point, how you hold on to it all. And you might not have the luxury of being able to go out and do a half hour workout, you know, and kind of release it all and get those endorphins. So that little micro letting it all out. And that sigh Yeah, I remember that just a touch when it was kind of needed. Yeah, me but overwhelmed.

Debs
I think so. And I think Jo mentioned that as well on, you know, her other bit of her clip that she shared with us as well, one of her tips around wellness was, you know, taking the time for looking at it through, you know, in a different perspective, when it's in high times of stress is just pausing. And so yeah, let's hear her tip.

Listener Jo Digby
My top tip on wellness. I mean, where do you go with that? I've got many, many, I suppose the biggest one for me is taking time for perspective, in times of high stress. We all experience these moments. And I think just taking that timeout, whether you're in the moment or as a preventative measure, taking time to just gather some perspective, look up at the sky. Take a moment it's gonna be okay.

Lau
Ah, sometimes it's the simplest things make the biggest difference is that Deb's because sometimes it's the smallest things that can take us over the edge and turn from that feeling of kind of on top of life into I feel overwhelmed by life. So coming in coach, as we know, the difference between wishful thinking and tangible action is having some kind of key takeaway or something that we're going to do differently. So what would your call to action be for this week talking about from overwhelm to ownership?

Debs
Yeah, I love that Lau. And my tip would be or my call to action would be to, I think, one well, there's a couple of things. One, take a sign, take a breath first. And just take that moment to, like, prioritise what you have to do. It's the what I have to do now, and then do it, and then celebrate that afterwards. That's what will be my call to action.

Lau
Fantastic. My share the secret would be, think of someone in your life who maybe is feeling a little bit beleaguered by everything at the moment, maybe they are not fortunate enough to work in an environment that is inspiring, and where people are naturally looking out for their well being. Get them to listen to this, fire him up with feelings of ownership and empowerment. And sometimes just like when we heard from Joe in her first bit, it's not until you realise there is a need to change that you then realise you've got the confidence to change and we can be empowered. And if you don't do something, now, just think where will you be in a year's time, if that overwhelm is not dealt with now, by getting that sense of ownership? asking those questions. So share the secret. Think of someone in your life who loves feeling a little bit hard done by at the moment, get into listen to this, you shared some brilliant examples of practical questions, to start that dialogue to get things changing and opportunity to shift from Panda to Fox, because there's certainly one thing that will future world of work is going to require it is going to require bucket loads of energy, yes, it's going to require that energy to look out and look for opportunity. And if we're feeling overwhelmed now, goodness knows what the rest of the decade is got in store of us. 2022 we got to do what we can to sort it out. So take comfort that you're not alone. And take courage that all it takes sometimes is just initiating that conversation. I

Debs
love that. I love that. And that leads really nicely into next week's episode. Doesn't it Lau as well, actually.

Lau
I know; we're trying something new bit of an experiment

Debs
we are we'd like to change it up a little bit and see the difference. So tell us what we're doing next week.

Lau
Well, next week Deb's we are focusing all about how do you declutter? How do you deal with the backlog? What are some real life tips from real life people in terms of what works for them? So it's been really amazing engaging with people that we know really well and we're getting to know and we're gathering a nice set of tips in terms of how to deal with decluttering dealing with the backlog. So can't wait for next week's bit of something new there'll be a mix of listen to lots of different voices are reflections to hold that all together. And that is the ideal episode for anyone that is looking for some practical tips. If you're dealing with a backlog or you want to declutter and wade through a whole load of stuff, we're gonna hear it from real life people what is really working from them from all sorts of different industries and backgrounds. 

Debs
Yeah, looking forward to that as well. So you have a good we can think about how you're gonna manage yourself as well through that and look after you.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai