212. Enabling Intergenerational Teamwork Through Compassion

Yes , looking at seeing as we are on the brink of a shift from the first half of this third decade of the second millennium , is that the right numbers ?

Let's lift the lid to a bit of exploring in the pursuit of enabling us to thrive and drive forward in what is a pretty shape-shifting decade in the world of work . So we've been looking at actually , the quicker we can maybe accept uncertainty , see it for what it is , look for the opportunity and surf the chaos , the easier and happier work may be .

We've looked at what happens if bosses are behaving badly , how to overcome bad boss trauma , and we had the wonderful Dave McCabe in last week's episode talking about reclaiming confidence . That may have been bashed around a bit if you've had turbulent team dynamics or toxic team environment .

Now this one , debs , we're going to be exploring intergenerational working and how compassion is the enabler . And it was quite a surprise to do a quick Google on this In 2024 , at time of recording , legally , there are five generations that are able to work in the workplace right now .

So I guess just what are your thoughts , your experiences you've had of what does it mean to be an intergenerational workforce . What are all some of the things that you've had ? What does it mean to be an intergenerational workforce ? What are all some of the things that you're seeing ?

Because we're still here , because I'm still working , we're still here .

And I try not to pigeonhole people , because you can have a baby boomer that was somebody born between 1946 and 1964 that is very adaptable and flexible and very compassionate and can get along with anybody .

So I think I just need to , but for the purpose of what we're doing , I think people recognize the fact that there are differences in the world of work and people then pigeon you know , pigeonhole people into the demographic or their age range or , as we said , the baby boomers or the millennials or the generation x or z , and so it's not about pigeonholing people

, it's just having an understanding that people come with different wants and needs because of when they were born , I suppose , and what was going on around them at the same time . So , yeah , but it's such a it is a hot topic and we often get asked as to wow , what do I need to do to adapt my style as a leader , to get the best out of my team .

And then , when you explore with them , if you like , the breadth of their team , the depth of the knowledge in their team , people sometimes do struggle across the different generations and being able to understand what each one wants , because we often hear this feedback that oh , those Gen Zers don't work as hard as us and I go well . Is that true though ?

You know , is that true and they go well . Where's your evidence ? And they always can't evidence it . It's just a perception that we have , and I think the more intelligent we are emotionally to embrace difference , learn from it . It's a learning opportunity .

If you have someone just starting in the world of work and you're , as you always say , you're sort of on the dusk of your career , you can still learn something . But it's having that ability to have an open mind , to want to learn and want to continue to grow and develop , which we know is the best thing ever , right ?

As you say , every day is a school day .

Keeping that learning mindset is a good workout for your brain , which has all sorts of health benefits as we get into the next kind of phase of retirement or whatever it might be sort of with that . So I wonder , devs , so that's interesting . You say that because it's almost like by looking at , well , who are the Gen Zs and who are the millennials .

I guess , by the very definition of doing that , we're making it , you know , putting in these kind of dividers .

So if we sort of say , people are people , however , there might be some early childhood influences , as each of those generations were coming of age , that could have an influence over , for example , what it means to work hard , or what it means to have an attitude , positive or negative towards authority figures , or what it means to be patient .

So I think it's going to be interesting watching today's primary school kids going into the world of work who were homeschooled , yes , you know , with one week's notice .

Yeah , I wonder how many of those children will actually be prepared to do a four year long program where they have to do this kind of linear route when actually as part of their early childhood experience was well , actually , everything could be changed overnight and so you've got to flex and adapt .

So will there be more challenging around workplace education , saying actually I don't want to do the 12 step program , I want to do the three step program .

I think that underpins all of this and that's what we were saying . How do we lead those different intergenerational components through compassion and teamwork through compassion ? So I think the stuff that we do anyway is really important . So things like compassion , obviously empathy is a big thing . Cultivate empathy , understand somebody else's perspective .

As we always say , we all come with a backstory . It doesn't matter how old we are . But if I can understand it from your map of the world , then I've created a better understanding for myself , which then enables me to either empathize with you in a way that I get your experiences you've been through or your challenges that you've had .

And you know , being able to build that empathy by listening , and listening well , having open communication , you know , looking at people's strengths , I think is super important . The ability to be flexible might take you a little bit longer , but actually that whole thing about empathy is what's important .

If I can understand you better , then I get you , and if you can understand me better , then you get me .

And then , even though we may be from completely different upbringings , generations well , I call it generations as we go through this law , there is still something that we can both bring together , but it's having that ability to either have the confidence to assert your thoughts and values and beliefs and opinion , and also the ability to listen and then also share

yours , not in a conflict or well , what do you know ? You haven't been in the world of work for long enough to understand , but with a sense of understanding that says , okay , you're just different from me because of your upbringing or where you were , or when you were born in the world and what was going on in the world .

So it's bigger than just dates of birth . It's looking at the whole environment that was being created at that particular time and it's fascinating .

But I think , leading by example , if you're a manager or leader , you can lead the way with colleagues , to show that , even though you're leading a team of a multi-generational workforce , by being that understanding , empathetic leader , manager , open conversation , listening to what people have to say , and you're treating everybody fairly and consistently , you'll have a

thriving workplace . So why would you not do that ? And catching those people that will say , well , you know , he's just got , you know , got out of school , what does he know ? And actually having the courage to challenge that type of behavior , because that doesn't help anybody .

So I think there's quite a lot of a leader can do to role , model how we want to be . So you know , because , as we always say , you know that next generation that come into the world of work are potentially paying for our pension . Right , absolutely . So we have to .

And also it helps with the culture , the new organisation , the retention of the people within it , and people thrive , which is ultimately what we all want to do . Right ? It's fascinating .

So we're not sort of saying you sit around the table and go hands up who's in their twenties , hands up who's in their thirties , so it's not that , Is it more sort of taking just a holistic approach of what would working well together on this shift mean to you yeah . What would working well on this project over the next three , six months mean to you yeah .

And that's where people can say actually what's important to me is I need to be able to leave work at a certain time to be able to do whatever that responsibility may be , and that responsibility might shift depending on what phase of life you're at .

But I guess that enables you to be empathetic , because the first step to empathy is knowing what might be going on . So , rather than sort of using age as the way to define it , I guess if we just recognise actually at different stages of life there are different pressures , different challenges , different opportunities .

But by asking some of those open-ended , curious questions of what does a good life-work balance . Look like to you in the year ahead ?

Yeah , and whether that is registered in the till of the organization as an uplift , or in the customer service or the patient service or whatever that might be .

But then there's this kind of irony and that we then just kind of focus on the very sort of tactical bits , with sort of missing a trick a little bit and I reckon with the intergenerational working bit is rather than you know , what does it say about you on the payroll and what year you were born ?

More , where are there some opportunities just to open up a bit of dialogue ? That then means , as you said , we can bring compassion and some of those questions . What does a good work-life balance look like to you in the year ahead ? How does a good shift work for you ? So what are you driven by to work well on this project or on this shift ?

And I guess it's the good old open-ended questions in the pursuit of just finding out a bit of info and in that five seconds , debs , I could glean . Actually , it's really important for me to make it home on Friday because I've got to pick my grandkids up and if I don't do that , that has serious implications for my kids . And then you know that .

Okay , well , they're happy to maybe bend and flex on some of the other days , but Friday is sacrosanct . So everything I can do to then make that happen , whether that is a leadership role or a colleague role but if I didn't know that , then that's where the resentment and the well , they don't understand what it's like to be my age .

And , uh , you know , there's , there's , there's something I was uh , re upcycling it , upcycling content , no you on the carousel .

So I think what would be amazing is to get your thoughts on what opportunities are out there , if actually we are able to use compassion as the enabler to unlock really successful intergenerational working .

As you said , thriving is so , so important and it's quite easy to do really , but people make it super complicated and I think understanding what each of those , if you like , generations , might have challenged , they're facing , or what they value , I think is super important because then that can help somebody bleed with what we call compassion .

So when we're thinking about and I'm going to put people in the age brackets , even though it's not necessarily the right thing , but we're going to do it just because people like that , I think , the baby boomers , as we said earlier , the 1946 to 1964-ish people , their challenges is about on the the whole and this is generalizing adapting to rapid technological

changes easy for me to say and they want to be able to , even though they're nearing , as you said , the dusk of their career , maybe retirement , they're wanting to remain quite relevant and therefore they want , they really value loyalty , they value recognition and they have valued that structured career progression .

So you know , that's when I've earned the stripes , as we we heard . So somebody leapfrogs them , then that can really send them off on a bit of a spin . So I think also a compassionate leader , manager , team leader would recognize that . So respect their experience is one of the tips we would say sometimes , that validation that what they're doing is really cool .

So , acknowledging what they are doing and and if they're not savvy on excel spreadsheets or how to I don't know use teams well , pivot tables blah all of that a bit like me really . Um , give me the training as a baby boomer , speaking as a baby boomer excel spreadsheet , how do you do a pivot table ? But I'm willing to learn right .

So somebody was offering me that training . Why would I not take it rather than go well , no one's telling me , well , you could do it , but anyway . So offering that and being , as you said , those late career transitions , because a lot can happen in that time , so you know the flexible schedule , as you were just saying , can be super important for that .

So I think looking at that compassionate tips can help with that . I think if we move on to generation x , which is this 1965 ish to 1980s ish , which is that group of individuals , is that you , that's me , that's me so for you , I , generation x , generation x , you are .

So it's really interesting how , as a compassionate leader , you could offer them that level of flexibility , you know respecting what they need , by having a conversation with them , I think , empowering that independence , by enabling them to master and have the autonomy to make decisions and , you know , support them , I think , in that and give them career development .

I think that you know your generation I'm going to call it yours do want to develop , and they don't want to stay stuck sometimes . So how can you ? No , debs ?

Acknowledge the challenges that individual may be under because they may be working with elder or younger , but you know it's thinking about how you can have that compassionate approach to them and it's all with a conversation

, right . And then we move on to our lovely millennials , which is where Carl comes into this . So , member of our team . So they're the 1981ers to the 1996ers , as we call it . Rising cost of living , job market competitiveness . They might have some debt if they've gone to university and that debt is still maybe hanging over them .

But , interestingly , what they value and we're having work with grads of that age range they are very purpose-driven . They want to do purpose-driven work on the whole . They value feedback and having again the flexibility , but also looking for that career advancement as well . They don't want to stay stuck .

So , as a manager of that , how do you provide that purpose and meaning for them , making sure that they can have an impact on not just the organization but maybe their community as well . So offering that opportunity , love feedback , keep giving them feedback all the time because they want to grow . And then development , again mentorship .

And then we always say you know what could be missing in the workplace at the moment ? With you know , this hybrid virtual reality just depends . We're missing a trick by enabling our , if you like , our millenn , our baby boomers , to maybe pass on their knowledge to that next generation that are coming through .

So and that is , I think that's going to be something that companies need to be more aware of . So , even if they are still virtual or they're working hybrid , my encouragement would be it doesn't matter where they work , just still align them to a mentor who has got some experience to share , or a buddy that's there . Don't wait for them to be in the office .

I think you can have a work around that , which is really important .

But actually , even though it might now be done in a remote way , we've got to connect people to then have those relationships for that skills transfer to happen , you know , sort of informally . So yeah , I think spot on with that .

And then obviously we've got Generation Z , or Zed as it gets called , which are those that joined the workplace or born in 1997 to 2012 .

So literally just before the Olympics , for here in the UK , I think , also , again , they have challenges of finding good careers in this uncertain economic where we're at the moment , social cultures that are going on managing their mental health and adapting to corporate norms .

Because I think , you know , if you think back , mental health wasn't even talked about way back when , even probably as long as maybe 15 years ago , it was a taboo subject , whereas now it's taught in schools . As you said , it's very okay to talk about how you're feeling from your mind , health , and so therefore , that's again a difference .

So you know , they value authenticity , they value having that diversity around it , inclusion , making sure that it's fair , making sure they do have support for their mind health , so wellness and all of that and they will be really passionate about sharing what they want , which may be odd for someone who's not used to sharing how they feel , if you like .

So it's always that okay , that's interesting . What do you want a wellness room for ? Because it's really important for me . Oh , I never had one Doesn't mean you can't put one in place . So I think , from a management leadership , the tips I'd give them to become more compassionate would be around that authenticity and transparency .

So sharing company goals , making decisions and challenges openly . Don't do it behind closed doors . Involve people in those conversations , making sure there is the proviso or the provision of mental health support or timeout support or whatever that might be . It's good for everybody .

Basically because that whole term around psychological safety at work is a buzz term now , which is very important . So that's going up on the agenda that people are now having to be mindful of and , I think , celebrating building diverse teams . People want to see and foster that inclusivity in the workplace and also in decision-making .

So a watch out would be if you're not asking their opinion , they will still tell you . So don't be surprised if somebody says well , actually I'm going to challenge you on that , because I would be open-minded to hear and listen and then take on board what they're saying , because I think people miss a trick sometimes in that and go .

And then obviously , the last generation A or generation alpha that are about to maybe leave school . They're born 2010 to 2025 . So they're on the cusp of next year coming in . I think their challenges , as you said earlier , will be the adapting to hybrid workplaces because they're used to having a mix of stuff .

So I think we're seeing that even in school environments people coming back in from homeschooling into the school space . So I think interesting to how to help people adapt in that . And obviously , ai that's just that's just taken over the world . And flexibility . They , they really value flexibility and sustainability as well .

So leverage their digital skills , use them , you know , personalize career development . That was an interesting one for me . They want something that's personalized for them , that where their savviness can shine really , because they are super smart , you know , and they are learning in a different world to .

That's going to be very interesting for HR to navigate that , how they navigate .

But hey , pdps , you know just , you're cascading the corporate goals down . You know , make it personal . Don't just do the tasks and the KPIs that the organization want . Make it relevant to that individual . So , as I said , I know we've been saying for years and years and years where's the personal bit in a development plan ?

And then make sure that's in , because that will really engage people and make them feel like they're valued and they're part of it and they can be working on innovative and purpose-driven projects . So again , it's all about

that . Yeah , purpose-driven work , I think is really important and I think that I suppose , like millennials and Gen Z , as we said , gen A offer will also at this moment seek meaning in their work and emphasizing , if you like , those societal contributions over just profit . So all of that , well , we've got to hit the bottom line return on investment .

That may be not wash as well , so they can't see that . So I think even the language may have to change . If people are pushing for the cutting costs and we've got to hit 20% over the next year , I don't think that will have as much impact as it might've done for me as a driver that went oh my God , I've got to hit 20% over the next year .

I don't think that will have as much impact as it might have done for me as a driver that went , oh my God , I've got to work hard , I've got to work harder , whereas actually I think that would be interesting for people to navigate their way through . That . Is it fair ? You know , I think it's fascinating . I think it'd be a fascinating time .

I think what's going to be a real opportunity is where industries or professions that typically were associated with a certain age flipping it a little bit . So I'm thinking of a scenario that I saw play out with a fashion brand that we work with . We've worked with it for years now . Oh , it's lovely .

And typically someone that works in the buying team especially if they're a junior buyer probably tends to be in their early 20s and for whatever reason they thought you know , we're going to open it up a little bit and they had someone join who was in their early 50s and the innovation that has come as a result of having a completely different perspective , the

confidence that that's then given to some of those junior buyers who were sort of , you know , working out how to interject , how to behave in big meetings and , yeah , a number of people have said how it's just sent a real fresh energy wave through bringing someone that is typically not the generation that you'd associate with either that industry or that team .

And likewise if you were to have , maybe in some of the more established industries , some younger , emerging talent coming in and just being able to listen to those ideas and just to be able to bring things up .

So I think , as well as kind of compassion to enable working with who you've got right now , is there also an opportunity to think if we were to just flip it , so what is the typical age range of people that are associated either within our industry or within our profession , if we were to just go up or down the generational scale , I wonder what opportunities

there would be to just open up that diversity of opinion sitting around the table .

I did have a leader say to me well , what can I learn from somebody else ? And you know , when you go in my head , I went in my head . Seriously , did you just say that ? And I just felt like I just wanted to punch his lights out , but I didn't .

If you understand your purpose and you understand your point , your purpose in life , your value , you bring what makes you you , that awareness of self .

Actually , that's when you are open-minded , you want to learn , you're emotionally intelligent enough to adapt and flex in the moment to whoever is standing in front of you and not to be judgy , and I think that's the whole perception piece around . Well , just because they're 19 , what do they know about the world ? How do you know ?

We have no idea of the life people have led , and I think that , if you like , marking people , judging people on the fact that , well , they haven't spent 20 years doing what I've been doing , good , um , you know , and I think this is where fortunately , I think for us we have the privilege of working across that , so we're definitely not stuck in any generation

actually , cause , when you know , when you look at what the motivators are and the needs and the wants , they're very similar to how we behave and our attitude towards it , and I think that's helping us to understand how we have to adapt and change .

So our training , if it stayed the same training as it did 20 or 30 years ago , laura , we just wouldn't be in a job anymore , right .

organisation . Everyone has got a story . No matter what age you are , there are pressures and challenges . I don't think there's any generation that has an easy ride . There might be calm waters for you at the moment , but who knows what's around the corner , and you know so , I think , being able to practice that compassion , as you said .

So , debs , I was going to email you the share , the secret , but I had to print it out to be able to read the email , because I still do like to print out important emails . Oh my God , me too , laura . That's a bit of a reveal , isn't it ?

Anyway , I would say my share the secret would be , if you know someone that is in a position of influence about recruitment within their teams , get them to listen to this , because , although you can't put birth dates on a CVs anymore , you know , in the pursuit of equal opportunities , rather than kind of guessing someone's age and then sort of making a decision

around that , actually , if we were to , if we were to purposely go for difference , what opportunity could that bring that ? So I would say , share the secret .

If you've enjoyed this episode and it's got you thinking , think of someone in your professional or personal network who has an influence over recruitment and recruiting and hiring , and get them to listen to this in the pursuit of practicing compassion , to unlock these treasures of intergenerational working and from wishful thinking .

Debs , as you always say , it's the action that makes it so . So what would be your call to action ?

Definitely understand what leading with empathy is , so making sure that you are understanding it from that person's perspective first , not just yours and being judgy around it . And my third one would be actively creating that supportive environment and encouragement , if you like , so that everybody can succeed .

And I think you know , by having , as that manager and leader , that ability to do that , that will set you up for success forever . So they would be my three calls to action . So get on it everyone .

How do we create an abundant mindset in a fatigued team ? So if you're looking around you and thinking , god , we're having to dig deep to smile . At the moment , if people are feeling a bit tired , a bit fatigued , they've just a little bit kind of over . You know change and transformation .

Then we are going to be exploring how do you unlock and create an abundant mindset within a team environment . So I'm really looking forward to that one day . So that's a topic that's passion to all of our team's hearts is .

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