Former chief technology officer of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, Dr. Anthony Vinci, joins Matt to explain why intelligence has broken out of the classified world—and why everyday citizens are now on the front lines. Anthony walks through three past “intelligence revolutions” and argues we’ve entered a fourth, driven by China and AI: intelligence expanding beyond war and politics into economics and tech, a “whole-of-society” competition that pulls in companies and universities, and...
Dec 13, 2025•55 min•Season 10Ep. 19
In this episode, Chris speaks with Dr Taras Kuzio about the deeper forces shaping Russia’s war against Ukraine and the faltering U.S.-Russia-Ukraine peace talks. Kuzio explores Vladimir Putin’s obsession with history and identity, the existential stakes the war now holds for the Kremlin, and the political, economic and social pressures that make genuine negotiation nearly impossible. They unpack the Trump administration’s pro-Russian tilt, European hesitation, the resilience and innovation of Uk...
Dec 10, 2025•1 hr 6 min•Season 10Ep. 18
In our final Espresso Martini of the year, Chris and Matt reflect on the DC National Guard shooting, the alleged Afghan CIA-linked gunman, and what the case says about how America treats its wartime partners once the war ends. They then turn to Trump’s latest “final” Ukraine peace offer and growing frustration in Europe as Moscow drags the war out on its own terms. The focus shifts to Venezuela, where Russian advisors, new air defenses, cartel politics, and U.S. forces raise the risk of conflict...
Dec 06, 2025•1 hr 43 min•Season 10Ep. 17
Former FBI Special Agent Jim Gaylord joins Matt to discuss Chasing Chi , his inside account of the multi-year hunt for Chi Mak, the low-key Southern California engineer at the center of a major Chinese spy ring inside America’s Navy industrial base. They walk through how a vague tip evolved into a full counterintelligence operation—trash pulls, covert entries, FISA surveillance, and a race to grab the Chi’s conspirators at LAX before stolen submarine and radar secrets left the country—and what t...
Nov 29, 2025•1 hr 15 min•Season 10Ep. 16
Chris is joined by journalist Tom Mutch to discuss The Dogs of Mariupol and the realities of reporting from Ukraine’s front lines. Tom shares what it takes to work inside an active war zone—from the decision to stay during the invasion to the daily logistics of moving, sourcing, and staying alive. They dig into the resilience of Ukrainians under fire, the reach of Russian propaganda, and the social fractures between those who fought and those who fled. Tom also reflects on why documenting these ...
Nov 26, 2025•1 hr 7 min•Season 10Ep. 15
Chris Carr sits down with author Stephen Bates to discuss The Man Who Sold Honours and the extraordinary life of Maundy Gregory—actor, fixer, conman and sometime MI5 asset at the heart of Britain’s original cash-for-honours scandal. They unpack how Gregory monetised access to power, became the only person ever prosecuted under the 1925 law aimed at stopping the sale of honours, and what his story reveals about the long, murky history of buying peerages. The conversation then jumps to today’s pol...
Nov 22, 2025•47 min•Season 10Ep. 14
On today’s episode, Chris and former CIA analyst Yaya Jata Fanusie explore the evolution of digital currencies, focusing on central bank digital currencies (CBDCs), Bitcoin, and the implications for national security and global financial systems. They discuss the rise of China's digital currency, the concept of programmable money, and the potential for cryptocurrencies to challenge traditional financial systems and government control. The conversation also touches on the importance of data in ge...
Nov 15, 2025•57 min•Season 10Ep. 13
Chris is under the weather this weekend, so in place of Espresso Martini we’re sharing his conversation with former CIA analyst Yaya Fanusie. They dig into the national security and geopolitical stakes of central bank digital currencies, the broader evolution of crypto, and China’s push to build a state-controlled system. Matt and Chris will return with a new Espresso Martini the first weekend of December. Send in audience questions for the next Espresso Martini by December 4th! Email secretsand...
Nov 14, 2025•1 min
Shane Harris joins Matt to discuss his recent piece in The Atlantic , “Europe Is Answering Putin’s Challenge.” From drone incursions over the Baltic to Trump’s transactional diplomacy, Shane unpacks how European leaders are rearming, coordinating, and preparing for a future where Washington may no longer be the continent’s security backstop. They explore NATO’s shifting balance of power, the uneasy courtship between Trump and Europe’s leaders, and whether the alliance can endure in an age of pop...
Nov 08, 2025•37 min•Season 10Ep. 12
In this special conversation, Chris speaks with Reality Winner — the former Air Force linguist and NSA contractor who leaked evidence of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election and served the longest prison sentence ever imposed for an unauthorized disclosure. Winner reflects on her decision, the weaponization of the Espionage Act, her years in prison, and the struggle to rebuild her life after release. It’s an unfiltered discussion about truth, power, and the personal cost of dissent in ...
Nov 01, 2025•1 hr 9 min•Season 10Ep. 11
A fragile ceasefire in Gaza, the collapse of a UK spy trial, and a damning new report on China’s exploitation of U.S. defense research—Chris and Matt unpack a pivotal few weeks in global politics and intelligence. They assess the Trump-brokered truce between Israel and Hamas, the role of Jared Kushner, Qatar, and Tony Blair in the deal, and why Netanyahu’s legal troubles could upend it all. In London, they break down how a high-profile Chinese espionage case unraveled, exposing gaps in the Offic...
Oct 25, 2025•1 hr 6 min•Season 10Ep. 10
Chris speaks with historian Dr. Jessica Douthwaite, co-curator of John le Carré: Tradecraft at Oxford’s Bodleian Library. They explore how le Carré—born David Cornwell—approached his extensive research, the selection process for the exhibition, and the political evolution reflected in his works. Jessica emphasizes le Carré’s identity as a writer who was also a spy, the collaborative nature of his writing process with his wife, and the contemporary relevance of his themes. They also discuss his n...
Oct 18, 2025•47 min•Season 10Ep. 9
Former FBI agent Tim Carpenter led the Bureau’s Art Crime Team, chasing down everything from stolen masterworks to looted antiquities. In this conversation, he joins Chris to discuss his new book The Grave Robber , a gripping account of the biggest stolen artifacts case in FBI history. Tim recounts the investigation into Don Miller, an amateur collector who raided archaeological sites and kept human remains in his Indiana home, and reflects on how the FBI sought justice and cultural restoration ...
Oct 15, 2025•1 hr 4 min•Season 10Ep. 8
CNN’s Jake Tapper joins Matt to discuss his new book Race Against Terror , a gripping true story of the US hunt and prosecution of an al-Qaeda fighter named Spin Ghul. They trace the case’s origins in Italy and Afghanistan, its lessons about justice and accountability after 9/11, and what it reveals about how America wages its “forever war.” Tapper reflects on writing trauma without spectacle, the moral limits of the War on Terror, and the investigators who quietly uphold the rule of law amid po...
Oct 11, 2025•50 min•Season 10Ep. 7
This week, Chris and Matt break down Pete Hegseth’s speech at Quantico, where he and President Trump summoned 800 generals and admirals for what turned out to be a culture-war lecture on grooming standards and “wokeness.” They examine what it says about civil-military relations in Trump’s second term and the risks in treating the armed forces as a political prop. Then they turn to the Secret Service’s discovery of a massive SIM-card farm in New York linked to swatting threats and fraud, and what...
Oct 04, 2025•1 hr 4 min•Season 10Ep. 6
On todays special podcast, Chris is joined by Gavin Stone and James Foster to discuss “Spy-Q,” a tradecraft-for-civilians training event that turns elicitation, deception detection, influence, behavioural profiling, resilience, and memory techniques into practical tools you can actually use. Find out more information about SpyQ and register: https://www.spyq.co.uk/ Use this discount code for 10% off - SECRETS&SPIES10 Support Secrets and Spies Become a “Friend of the Podcast” on Patreon for £...
Sep 29, 2025•32 min•Season 10Ep. 5
Nearly a year after Bashar al-Assad fled Damascus, Syria is struggling to chart a path forward. This week, Matt is joined by Aaron Zelin of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, who has just returned from a rare trip inside the country where he met with President Ahmed al-Sharaa. They unpack Sharaa’s unlikely rise from jihadist commander to head of state, the sectarian bloodshed testing his grip on power, Israel’s relentless strikes and regional pressure, and the uneasy standoff with Ku...
Sep 27, 2025•59 min•Season 10Ep. 4
In this week’s episode, Chris and Matt take another look at the political assault on the US intelligence community and its strain on Five Eyes, pushing partners to question sharing or holding information back, even as the core bonds endure for now. Chris then previews “Spy-Q,” a tradecraft-for-civilians training event that turns elicitation, deception detection, influence, behavioral profiling, resilience, and memory techniques into practical tools you can actually use. Finally, they unpack Isra...
Sep 20, 2025•1 hr 4 min•Season 10Ep. 3
On this week’s episode, investigative journalist Florian Flade joins Chris to uncover three little-known German intelligence operations from the Cold War and their aftermath: supporting the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, secretly buying Soviet weapons from demoralized troops in East Germany, and covertly shipping GDR arms to Israel. Florian explains how these missions reflected Germany’s risk-taking intelligence culture, the close ties with allies like the CIA and Mossad, and the lessons they still ...
Sep 13, 2025•1 hr 14 min•Season 10Ep. 2
Flags are flying across Britain—but behind the bunting lurks a far-right campaign. Chris and Matt kick off Season 10 with a look at "Operation Raise the Colours," the extremist-led push to turn patriotism into intimidation. From there, they move to Ukraine, where the US has signaled willingness to offer critical support to a potential European-led peacekeeping force, even as Trump hedges on a deal with Moscow. Next, Tulsi Gabbard ignites turmoil at the top of the intelligence community, revoking...
Sep 06, 2025•1 hr 21 min•Season 10Ep. 1
In this episode, Matt speaks with Nicolo Majnoni, creator of The Shadow Kingdom podcast, about his new season investigating the murder of union reformer Jock Yablonski and the battle to reclaim America’s most powerful coal union from corruption and violence. They explore how union boss Tony Boyle turned the United Mine Workers into a personal fiefdom, why Yablonski’s democratic challenge cost him his life, and how, in response, a band of young outsiders helped bring the system down. It’s a story...
Aug 30, 2025•55 min•Season 9Ep. 66
In this episode, Chris speaks with Chad Lewis, author of The Persuasion Game , about how foreign influence operations exploit Western political vulnerabilities. Chad discusses the rise of Kremlin-backed disinformation campaigns, the use of political operatives and lobbyists to bypass formal institutions using shadow diplomacy. The conversation explores how narratives are seeded, legitimized, and weaponized in US and UK politics, drawing on case studies involving Ukraine, authoritarian networks, ...
Aug 23, 2025•1 hr 49 min•Season 9Ep. 65
Award-winning journalist John Beck joins Chris to discuss Those Who Should Be Seized Should Be Seized , his harrowing account of China’s campaign against Uyghurs, ethnic Kazakhs, and other Muslim minorities. Beck traces the lives of four people—from re-education camps in Xinjiang to exile in Turkey, Kazakhstan, and the US—revealing how Beijing’s reach extends far beyond its borders through intimidation, surveillance, and coercion. They explore mass detention, forced labor, and the destruction of...
Aug 16, 2025•48 min•Season 9Ep. 64
How does financial architecture shape the global order? Chris is joined by Emmanuel Daniel—author of The Great Transition and founder of TAB Global—for a sweeping look at how banking, capital markets, and emerging technologies are redefining geopolitics. They explore the evolution of the US dollar, the impact of digital currencies, and whether China can build a viable alternative to Western capital markets. Emmanuel explains how the US became a financial superpower, why tariffs may backfire, and...
Aug 09, 2025•58 min•Season 9Ep. 63
How do we make sense of truth in a world saturated with content? This week, Chris speaks with Alicia Wanless—director of the Information Environment Project at the Carnegie Endowment and author of The Information Animal—to explore how humans have always wrestled with information, long before the internet. They unpack the patterns that emerge when new technologies reshape how we communicate, why influence operations aren’t new, and how today’s information warfare fits into a much older story. Fro...
Aug 05, 2025•1 hr 21 min•Season 9Ep. 62
This week, Matt is joined by terrorism researcher Jacob Ware to unpack the rise of nihilistic violent extremism—attacks carried out by disaffected young men radicalized online without any clear political goal. They explore how social media fuels this chaotic new threat, why the FBI created a new classification for it, and what makes networks like 764 and the Order of Nine Angles so dangerous. Then, they turn to the recent string of violent antisemitic attacks in the US and what they reveal about...
Jul 30, 2025•58 min•Season 9Ep. 53
Author and conspiracy researcher Mike Rothschild joins Chris to unpack the rise, evolution, and enduring influence of QAnon. They explore its blend of old and new conspiracies, its gamified social appeal, and the algorithmic fuel behind its viral spread. Mike explains how QAnon adapted across borders, embedded itself into mainstream politics, and fostered real-world violence—culminating in the January 6 Capitol attack. They also examine QAnon’s psychological grip, its creative and authoritarian ...
Jul 30, 2025•48 min•Season 9Ep. 60
The MAGA movement cracks as Trump’s name surfaces in the Epstein files and his administration fails to deliver the promised disclosures. We unpack the backlash, the conspiracies, and the lingering question of an intelligence connection to Jeffrey Epstein’s crimes. Plus: a bizarre UK spy case involving Russia, a USB stick, and a bicycle seat; the Arctic emerges as a flashpoint for missile defense, climate competition, and great power rivalry; and Trump’s reversal clears the way for new weapons to...
Jul 26, 2025•1 hr 7 min•Season 9Ep. 61
Hi eveyone. Chris & Matt will be on Benjamin Wittes & Alicia Wanless's YouTube show "Dog Shirt TV", talking about Secrets & Spies, its origins, our interest in espionage and our thoughts on Spy Fiction. You can watch the show here: https://youtu.be/QVKAQf7p_Fs?si=TruFrM4-jsg0iQMq There won't be an Espresso Martini this week and instead we will be sharing Chris's interview with author Mike Rothschild and discussing his research on QAnon. That will be released on Saturday 19th. Have a ...
Jul 18, 2025•1 min
Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Tim Weiner joins Matt to discuss The Mission , his new history of the CIA in the 21st century. They explore the agency’s quiet successes and moral failings, from dismantling the AQ Khan network to abetting torture and losing its way in Iraq. Weiner recounts how the CIA reoriented after the 2016 Russian election interference, played a key role in supporting Ukraine, and tried to hold the line under Trump. Their conversation spans secret wars, agency leadership, a...
Jul 12, 2025•1 hr 3 min•Season 9Ep. 59
