Search Engine is sponsored by eBay Motors. eBay Motors is here for the ride, with the parts you need at the prices you want. And with eBay guaranteed fit, they're guaranteed to fit your ride the first time every time or your money back. Keep your rider die alive at eBay Motors.com. Electoral items only, exclusion supply. Hey, I'm Rhett, and I'm Link. Maybe you know us from our daily YouTube show Good Mythical Morning. But this is a little trailer for our podcast, Ear Biscuits, where two lifelong
friends talk about life for a long time. And nothing is off limits. We talk about our sex lives, our mental health journeys, but we try to never take ourselves too seriously. So we invite you to not do the same, or to do the same. We invite you to listen. Follow and listen to Ear Biscuits. Now for free on the Odyssey app and everywhere you get your podcasts. Whatever you do for work, if you do it long enough, you'll probably experience a moment where
a new piece of technology shows up and overnight just changes your job. Even in my field, when I started out in radio before the podcast boom, the big semi-recent invention everyone was still talking about was just editing audio on computers. The veterans who I learned from loved to talk about how just a few years before interviews were still being recorded onto actual physical tape. And they'd tell me how they used to edit that tape by cutting
it with a razor blade and sticky tape being it back together. It had all been so different, so much less efficient, so recently. They were still marveling at it. For me a few years later, the equivalent change was auto transcriptions. The weeks of my life spent typing up transcripts of other people's interviews or my own just gone. And now I was the one telling the young
producers about how it used to be. Every industry has these moments. Although technological change, as we know, is not always that good. Somebody recently told me one of these stories where a small tech breakthrough opened the door to innovations in the fields of professional violence and corruption. Hey, Joseph, how are you doing over there? All good, all good. A little bit of a sore throat from talking cons. I'm going to get so sick of my voice. You're going to get book tour fever.
This is Joseph Cox. He just published a book called Dark Wire. Joseph's a tech reporter, but he's not one of the normal ones. His work won't tell you how many more camera lenses to expect on the next iPhone. He's not the sex the latest outrageous tweet from Elon Musk. His interests lie elsewhere. And what's her relationship with the criminal underworld? Kind of close, actually, weirdly. I've carved a niche in my journalism career by speaking
to criminals, essentially. And that could be drug traffickers. It could be cyber criminals, hackers, especially. And I was always interested where we would read press releases about hacking operations or law enforcement campaigns. And you would never hear from the other side. So I made a habit of I want to go talk to the people with hands on keyboards is what I say. I want to talk to the hackers. I want to talk to the people using strange technology.
So I've for years approached it from the crime side of things. And they'll talk to you some of the time at least. Yeah, I think when you meet people sort of where they are, of course, for war reporting that would be actually going to the scene of the conflict. For me, that's like downloading the very particular weird apps that these criminals use. They respect you jumping through those hoops. Joseph's internet is one where ingenious criminals are constantly inventing apps and gadgets.
Sometimes giving themselves a significant edge against the cops they play cat mouse with. But in all his years covering this world, nothing he'd seen prepared him for the story of this one new kind of criminal smartphone. It had transformed the underworld so quickly and so thoroughly. And in the aftermath of that transformation, Joseph feels sure we are living in a new world. One whose implications he thinks most of us have not yet begun to
grapple with, but I'm getting ahead of myself. The story begins in a country with a much more active criminal underworld than I had ever known. Australia. No enforcement agencies in Australia are confronting a new high-tech weapon in their fight against organized crime. Criminal gangs are now using encrypted mobile phones. This ABC News report is from about a decade ago and is about a trend that had swept through the criminal underworld. Encrypted mobile phone companies.
The report explained how these phones worked by focusing on one company, popular at the time called Phantom Secure. It sells encrypted phones that are so secure even Australia's electronic spy agency can't crack their code. So the Australian media actually showed one of the adverts from Phantom Secure and there's a guy in a dress shirt doing his tie. There's
a limousine with blacked out windows. The company's clients appear to be international men of mystery involved in high-powered business deals. So looking at the ad, it looks like it's for Fancy Rich dudes who care about privacy. Who is this phone actually for? This phone is actually for serious organized criminals such as members of Baikigangs who may assassinate one another or even members of the Cineleur Drug Cartel. They're not your
normal business executives. A lot of serious organized criminal activity in Australia is controlled by the motorcycle gangs. So you have the Kermit Heroes, you have the Banditos, the Hells Angels as well and they all sort of, they're all in a melting pot with their different motivations, different territory. Three No Mets were shot in Maricville. The Hells Angels Pedisham Clubhouse was friboned. A Rebels member was killed. Banditos are notorious ambushes.
They're shooting outside the Nomads Club near Penwreth yesterday morning. The victim and innocent news pay for delivery. Shotgun blasts from both sides of the car park left four common charrows and two Banditos dead. A schoolgirl was shot dead in the crossfire. And in some cases, Phantom Secure phones were used to plan the hits between these rival groups. Why did the gangs like Phantom Secure? Like what was it about this product that they were drawn to?
Phantom Secure promised to keep criminals messages outside of the reach of the Law and Enforcement. You didn't have to trust an ordinary mobile phone anymore. You could buy Phantom Secure and you could continue with your drug trafficking without the cops coming and arresting you. Phantom Secure ran for nearly a decade, selling tens of thousands of phones, mostly to criminals. It was shut down finally in 2018 when the FBI tricked its Canadian CEO into visiting the US where he was arrested.
But with Phantom Secure gone, a much more unusual competitor took its place. A new encrypted phone company, also catering to criminals, but with much more audacious visionaries behind it. To start up founders with a plan unlike anything anyone had ever tried to pull off. The name of this new company? A nom presented itself as the next generation of encrypted phone, something like the
Royals Royce of the industry. So even though it was highly secure with encrypted messaging, it also included a bunch of sort of additional features that would make it look more like an ordinary phone and security benefits as well. So you would open up the phone and to get to the a nom messaging application itself, you'd actually have to go through the calculator app you had to type in two times two and press equals the calculator would fade away and
then the a nom app would reveal itself. Which is a very cool little gadget. I wish I could do that on my normal phone. It then had all of this other stuff like you could send scrambled voice memos. So even if the cops managed to intercept it, the voice would be all garbled and they wouldn't be able to tell who was actually talking. You could also redact images. So if somebody whose face was in there, you could then blur it and again the cops get
the image. They're actually not going to know who's in there. And probably most importantly, it had this really powerful wipe system where if the phone fell into the wrong hands, you know, maybe a border cop seized it or another Laura force and official got hold of it. You could tell a nom, hey, quick, my phone is in the hands of the cops. Please wipe the
device and they would do that. And it would remove all data from the phone. Of course, you know, I cloud and Apple, they have something similar, but you don't go to Apple and be like, hey, my phone is in the hands of the cops. Could you please Tim Cook isn't going to do that as far as I know? An arms promise was that not only were they on your side, unlike their competition, they'd also give you a great phone. A nice camera with tons of megapixels.
You could send emojis. This turned out to be a winning combination. Criminals like everybody else are human, suckers for the latest and greatest in new due dads. It had all of these bells and whistles, which while still being secure showed that, hey, we don't have to have these sort of like sluggish, cumbersome, encrypted phones anymore. We can have the phone of the 2020s with all of the cool features while still catering to our criminal clientele.
Got it. So it's both secure and like all the fun, exciting advances in smart phones that we've all gotten completely used to and don't actually feel fun and exciting, but it's like a criminally secure phone with features. Yeah, exactly. It brings them well into the 2020s and criminals can now send, you know, their sunglasses emojis or their heart emojis while they're doing their multi-ton shipments of cocaine. Of course, while it's great
to have a product with killer features, a phone can't sell itself. A nom like any startup needed to acquire customers. And it would use the same marketing strategy deployed by seemingly every online brand in the 2020s influencer marketing. The influencers in this case, high-level criminals with reputations for excellence in law-breaking. The way a nom worked, if a criminal sold a phone to their felonious friend, they got
a significant commission. It was a way to grow the network while at the same time entering the only people on a nom had been vetted by a fellow criminal. And that's a security benefit as well, right? You can't just rock into a normal phone store and get one of these phones because if you could, the cops would buy them and then they would get on the network as well. So you have this human level resellant network that also keeps the good guys out
and the bad guys in. So unlike, like if I wanted to buy an iPhone, I'll go to the Apple Store. If I want to get an anonymous phone, I would have to know someone through my existing criminal networks and they're selling it. It's sort of like Girl Scout Cookies.
Yes, it's exactly like Girl Scout Cookies. And that's also sort of a business benefit for a nom because if a top tier criminal at the top of their drug trafficking pyramid gets a phone, that means everybody underneath them needs to get a non phone as well because they only talk to one another. So everybody needs to move to that network and that gets more money for a nom as well. It's not like normal phones where obviously an iPhone can
send a text message to an Android. You can't do that with a nom. It's just an insular sort of internal network. So soon after launching in Australia, the company got more demand for phones outside and especially in Europe. And sort of the key person behind that expansion was a drug trafficker called Hakam Ayik. He is the head of the so called Aussie Cartel, which is a multi billion dollar super cartel. Good evening and welcome to the program.
Tonight we take you inside the hunt for Australia's most wanted criminal. Hakam Ayik is a very famous criminal in Australia. He's not the creator of a nom. We'll get to that later. But he's its most well known user, an early adapter responsible for much of its success. He was even a system administrator on the network. He's a rat cunning ruthless gangster who's made an eye-watering fortune in porting massive quantities of drugs into Australia. You see pictures of Hakam Ayik, presumably from
his own social media, selfies. He's a jack, huge tattoo-covered chest, buzz cut, looks a little bit like Joe Rogan. Ayik in Australia had managed to pull something off this pretty exceptional. He wasn't just running a single criminal organization, he was running a criminal network, uniting different gangs in different countries to come together to make money. He's teamed up with the Krummengeros and the Hells Angels. Groups that would usually
be killing each other if they were in the same room. They banned together to basically put those differences aside and make a lot more money. Hakam Ayik had been a devout user of Phantom Secure and when it was shut down he was very enthusiastic about its new successor. Hakam Ayik gets very interested in a nom. On one side he needs a secure device to continue to smuggle his drugs on the other. If he can get in early when the nom is just growing and maybe get a sizable share of the business
he can make an absolute ton of money selling the phones as well. Drug traffickers have figured out that you don't just sell coke, you sell the phones that also power the trade of the cocaine as well. What better and better for a nom than one of the world's top drug traffickers saying, hey, this phone is the real deal. So much so that I'm going to put my freedom and my safety behind it as well.
So it's funny, it's sort of like in my world Ryan Reynolds is a spokesperson for Mint Mobile, the cell phone company and I think he has shares in the company but he makes a lot of money being like an influencer who says like I'm Ryan Reynolds, you love my films, you should use my phone. In the criminal world, this guy, Ayik, he's saying like, hey, I love selling large quantities of cocaine and I'm never arrested, be like me. He's like a criminal influencer selling these phones.
Yeah, exactly. And very soon he brings in even more people. There's one called Maximum William Riffkin who uses the nickname Microsoft. If a con Ayik was the phone's most famous user, his underling Microsoft perhaps outmatched Ayik in his enthusiasm for the phone. You can see Microsoft in the wanted photos later distributed by the US State Department. He looks honestly quite nerdy, not a bodybuilder like Hakan, more like an IT guy. A heavy set Swedish national with scraggly facial hair.
So tell me more about Microsoft. Like what is he using his phone for? Like he's selling phone, he's getting a commission on selling phone, he's asking the people he works at this phone. What crimes is he using the phone to commit? So Microsoft, if you can think of a drug trafficking scheme, Microsoft is not only probably thought about himself, he's probably done it as well. Microsoft has spoken about putting drugs inside
energy drinks using corrupt workers inside energy drink factories. He's talked about gay airstrips in Europe to deliver drugs. He's hidden cocaine inside two lips. He's built and fetamine labs in the Swedish countryside. He's orchestrated drops of cocaine to speedboats in the middle of the ocean. Wow, done that multiple times. They call that a James Bond job when they drive a speedboat. They throw it overboard and they catch the nets or the
duffel bags or whatever. So Microsoft is a prolific drug trafficker and a prolific user and importantly a seller of these phones, including a norm. He puts his entire business and trust basically into this one platform. With Microsoft and others like him on board, a norm begins to dominate the international crime world, not just the Australian market. Joseph says that criminal networks these days are much more multinational than they once were with cooperation between a drug cartel
in one country and a distributor in another being fairly common. But for this global village of lawbreakers to talk, they needed a secure way to do it. And now that was a norm. And it starts to spread in Colombia or then in Sweden and Denmark and Norway and Finland. So you have all of these influences providing exceptional marketing to a norm. Like if a norm did not have those big names, those Ryan Reynolds, I guess, I don't know if a norm would really take off and it absolutely did after that.
I can't I act the muslim mastermind and Microsoft is nerdy underling may have been the Ryan Reynoldses of a norm, but they were not the masterminds who had created it. The mastermind was actually an associate of theirs, a man known as Afgo. Where did Afgo get all the capital to start this? Probably would have been a good question to ask. But here's what people did know about Afgo. Afgo was a long time denizen of the criminal phone world. He'd actually
even been involved for a bit in an arms more primitive predecessor, phantom secure. And now, Afgo was moving the whole industry forward. As the months went on, a norm, just like a legit tech company kept adding more features. Sometimes at the specific request of its biggest power user, Microsoft. I mean, he would constantly contact sort of the customer support side
of a norm and be like, Hey, you should put this feature in. No, no, no, you should take this feature out to the point where the norm customer support staff are like pulling their hair out at this guy who's like clearly crazy, but they're told just here Microsoft out and to tie in his please because he's such a big influencer that we need him on our side. So the developers would do what Microsoft asked, put in a new voice feature, delete
it when he decided it was a bad idea. And Microsoft remained totally enamored with this new gadget. It gave him a kind of criminal superpower, most of the time anyway. In December 2020, Microsoft began to hit a biblical patch, a bad luck. The first major piece of bad luck for Microsoft is that Swedish police somehow find his amphethemian lab in the Swedish countryside. It turns out the cops followed one of his lab
cooks who was making a switch of amphethemine in a shopping center car park. They follow him back and they discover this amphethemian lab. And they do this really dramatic raid with two parallel SWAT teams going through two different entrances, striking simultaneously, they capture the cooks, basically red handed or I guess glove in, and in glove because he puts his hands up and he's covered in amphethemine. And that's the first bit of bad luck and
they seize all the drugs. But more importantly, they seize the drugs, but of course they shut down the lab. And that's Microsoft's sort of drug infrastructure pushed out of the window. So that's very concerning. With his lab destroyed, Microsoft is now down bad financially, which means he has to do more risky jobs in order to make his money back. Microsoft continues doing odd jobs here and there. He's then trying to do another
sort of twilight drop of cocaine in the ocean there, Japan. And something happens where there's a combination of a lot of bad weather. And then also apparently the Japanese navy get a tip off that something is going on and they raid the boat. And that operation falls apart as well. Finally, he spins up another amphethemine smuggling operation. Like, okay, rather than building the lab, I'm just going to go to somebody I know who already has one
who can make it. And then I will smuggle it across Europe or wherever. And he does that. There's a seizure here or there. It's like, okay, the cost of doing business. But then again, again, and again, the cops keep raiding his safe houses, even though it's a different safe house every time. And it's like how the hell are the cops finding out where my drugs are every single time. And he's running out of money, especially because he operates
on credit a lot where he will sell drugs when they haven't actually arrived yet. So he's trying to balance his master spreadsheet while his drugs are all being seized. And it's a complete mess. He ends up with these stress rashes all across his body. He's figuring out where his next sort of paycheck is going to be. Until eventually, he basically emits defeat. And it's like, I'm out. I'm to zero. And he's gone from this incredibly prolific
drug smuggler to like a mess, basically. And it's not just Microsoft who is losing shipments. Some of his associates are having their drugs seized as well. There's even one point where Microsoft is introduced a colleague to the platform. He in turn gets more friends onto a norm and they're rated immediately. And there's just something off. And some people believe it's the phones. And they say there has to be something wrong with these devices.
And Microsoft just won't hear it. He believes a norm is completely secure. He just blames other people and says they must be a rat or a snitch. For him, a norm is never the problem. And then one summer day, a law enforcement agent on the other side of the world from San Diego, all places, holds a surprise press conference. Good morning. I am Randy Grossman. I'm the acting United States Attorney for the Southern District of California. Welcome. Thank you for being here.
This US Attorney looking quite pleased stands at a podium in a municipal law enforcement press room. Yellow looking veneer wood, old blue curtains, behind him, several other law enforcement officers, each wearing a fabric COVID mask. It's 2021. They're here to announce the many arrests that are being made in the US and simultaneously in other countries.
This is part of a worldwide law enforcement operation that has resulted in hundreds of arrests for drug trafficking, money laundering, firearms violations, and crimes of violence. These international arrests and the US charges were possible because of a San Diego-based FBI investigation like none other in history. Operation Trojan Shield. For the first time, the FBI developed and operated its own hardened encrypted device company called Anum, A-N-O-M.
So the phone company for criminals was being run by a United States law enforcement agency by the FBI. The US government was the secret venture capitalist and shpop it master and manager of a norm, so its entire existence. The worldwide implications of this investigation are staggering. In total, the criminals sold more than 12,000 Anum encrypted devices and services to more than 300 criminal syndicates operating
in over 100 different countries. Oops. After short break, how the FBI came to start a criminal phone company preferred by the discerning international drug smuggler and what the feds found on history's most ambitious wiretap. Sir Attention is brought to you by eBay Motors. Hey everyone, I've got some exciting news for all the car enthusiasts and DIYers out there. If you're looking for top quality auto parts,
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die alive at eBay Motors.com. Eligible items only exclusion supply. Search Engine is brought to you by Delete May. Ever wonder how much of your personal data is out there on the internet for anyone to see? More than you think. Your name, contact info, social security number, and home address, even information about your family members, all being compiled by data brokers and openly sold online. But now, you can protect your privacy with Delete May. I tried out Delete May, I was surprised
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and what they removed. Today, get 20% off your Delete Me plan by texting search20 to 64000. Text search20 to 64000. The only way to get 20% off is to text search20 to 64000. That's search20 to 64000. Message and data rates may apply, see terms for details. Welcome back to the show. A nom. The phone company used almost exclusively by criminals, designed exclusively for criminals, was a multi-year, very expensive FBI project. The bureau cooperated with law enforcement
in countries across the world. This was unprecedented. In the past, the FBI had used informants, but the idea that the FBI would run from the beginning, a company for criminals, this was audacious. And they hadn't just started a company. They'd done it and then managed to successfully compete with the other real criminal phone companies, companies like Encrochat or Sky that were actually being run for the benefit of criminals. So tell me the story from the FBI's perspective,
how did the FBI come to be running the criminal iPhone company? So in 2018, the FBI shut down an encrypted phone company called Phantom Secure. It had 7 to 10,000 users, it was very popular, very prolific. The Cintaloid draw cartel used the Baikigang's on Australia did as well. Phantom Secure. Remember, this was the same company that we'd heard the Australian news report about. The precursor to a non. It sold tens of thousands of encrypted phones before being taken down by
American law enforcement. And finally, tonight some good news. US Federal authorities arrested the CEO of a Canadian communications company for supplying encrypted cell phones to criminal organizations, including the Mexican cartel, formerly headed by El Chapo. Vincent Raymos, founder of Phantom Security, was arrested while the FBI shut that down. They tried to get a backdoor into the company.
That wasn't successful for a number of different reasons. The main reason being that the founder of Phantom Secure, Vincent Ramos, had initially promised to cooperate with the FBI to actually let them hack into his unhackable network and trace the criminals using it. But at the last minute, he changed his mind and tried to flee instead. He was too scared of reprisals from former customers. Which for a moment had left the FBI at a dead end. Until, they'd noticed another character in the
mix. AFGOO. Remember AFGOO? Before I know him, he'd actually worked with Phantom Secure. And he'd had plans to start his own criminal phone network. But now that AFGOO saw the feds had arrested the head of Phantom Secure, he got scared. Were they going to roll him up too? So sort of backed into a corner and realizing, hey, maybe I'm next. This person called AFGOO approaches the FBI and the prosecutors and says, hey, I have this embryonic company right now.
It's more of my brainchild. It's called a norm. Would you like to take control of it? And in exchange, please give me a less assentence, friendly charges I may or may not face in the future. For the FBI, the size of this opportunity was staggering. Typically, when someone in an organized crime group flips, the best case scenario is that the informant might lead you to the head of the group they belong to. But here, entire networks could be exposed. Icon IAC, the Australian drug
kingpin, for instance, you could get him, you could get his underlings. But his phone might also connect you to the head of the common charos, a totally different criminal organization. He was tight with them. If you control the phones, if you control them entirely, you might wrap up entire criminal social networks. I can't stress enough how big of an ace that is being played by AFGOO.
Like, if you imagine, if you're an informant in a normal crime syndicate, and I told the FBI about the boss or whatever, now imagine if you were offering the FBI the technical backbone to organize crime, at least potentially, for hundreds of crime syndicates around the entire globe. It's like, from this point on, the FBI can take a norm and they can grow it, at least theoretically, into infinity. You know, it's only dependent on how popular can we actually make this company.
So then what does it look like AFGOO and FBI building an phone network for criminals? What's the process? Well, they need to make the app better, first of all. They need to make it, so it's a project that people actually care about. And the way this comes about is the AFGOO, and then people sort of working with him, higher, ordinary Android developers, some of whom I've spoken to. And, you know, they would log on to their job from a number of different Asian countries.
One I spoke to, have their Mac book on their chest or their stomach from bed, like, I think a lot of work from home people probably do nowadays. And he would just fix bugs, he would improve features in the app and in the device, because, okay, it's all well and good that we have this encrypted phone company. But if it's of low quality, nobody's even going to use the phone, it would be embarrassing. American law enforcement found themselves in a strange predicament. The FBI employs a lot of
smart people, but presumably, few who know how to program a new smartphone. So now they were outsourcing the work to these coders who were in the dark about the actual mission. And so these remote coders for building this, I mean, it's funny. It's like one of those, the Russian nesting dollars, because theoretically, the company is saying their phone company, but they're really a phone company for criminals, but they're really a phone company to catch criminals.
Who do these coders think they're working for? And what do they think they're making? Yeah, so these coders, they think they're just working for a normal Android development company, which is making an encrypted messaging app. They know that. That's fine. They also know there is a message copying feature inside a norm. But what they're told is that, oh, this is for corporations who, yes, they want to have secure chats, but they need to keep an archive of the messages.
You know, maybe they work in banking, and this is very common where you have encrypted messaging inside a financial institution, but to stop stuff like insider trading, there will be like a secure archive of all of the messages as well. So that's what the developers think they're making. They're
not told who it's actually sold to, which of course is criminals. And then you have those criminal resellers like Microsoft who are siloed from the rest of the company, but of course, they're also not told that the actual client above them is the FBI trying to build a surveillance apparatus. And who's idea is this? Like who has the idea to try this? One of those key people is Andrew Yar. Now, he's an assistant US attorney, but he's not
a drug prosecutor. He's from like the world of like tax and like white collar crime. So for a series of events when he gets involved in the Phantom Secure Case and then the enormous opportunity comes up, he doesn't have the institutional baggage of the DOJ sort of hanging over him. He sees this as a really cool chance to disrupt the drug trade, whereas ordinarily in San Diego, what prosecutors and other agencies are doing is like, we'll just see his drugs
at the border. We'll give these poor disenfranchised people who are probably trying to make two or three thousand dollars spuggling coke across the border, we'll give them a pre-written plea deal, you know, and we'll move on with our lives. Andrew Young and other prosecutors in the FBI around him, they wanted to do something different. They wanted to do something they were actually disrupt, of course, not just the encrypted phone industry, but disrupt how drug crimes are
investigated in the US or around the world. It's easy to imagine the downside to a plan like this, law enforcement running up this spoke phone network, a Verizon, but for people who sell heroin by the shipping container and murder the people who wrong them, the moral hazards were staggering. And the FBI's attempt to negotiate all that, it actually helps explain what was happening with a criminal like Microsoft. Why his deals kept getting confounded, even though he was never quite
arrested. The feds were invisibly managing the lives of many Microsoft's. All the while getting a clearer, more high-res view into the modern crime world than perhaps anyone had ever glimpsed. One of the big things they learned was just the sheer scale of the underworld. Before a nom, Euro Paul's best estimate was that the value of proceeds of crime in the EU was something like, in 2016, $122 billion. That estimate turned out to be quite low.
When they started looking at this data, they realized, oh no, we need to triple by estimate, basically. It was like, they already knew, of course, the contours of organized crime, but like an entire iceberg emerged underneath the water surface, whereas they all know, this is way bigger than we anticipated. And something that doesn't normally come up in ordinary criminal investigations, but it did with a nom, is the sheer amount of public corruption
involved in the drug trade. You're going to have corrupt law enforcement officials giving tips to their criminal cohorts. You're going to have people in ports, in airports as well. And there's sort of this interface between the criminal world and the legitimate economy. And it turns out, they use actually overlap way more than many of the officials reading the messages actually previously understood. So it's both the illegal world is bigger than we realized,
and there's more corruption than we thought. It's bigger than we all thought, and it intersects with the surface world or the legitimate economy in way more ways than I think anybody sort of anticipated. You've seen some of the material that they saw, like, whatever you've seen. So when the FBI started digging through the non-messages, what they found was that the content was overwhelmingly criminal. Usually, of a wiretap, it's like, oh, there's a little bit of crime,
but maybe they're talking to their wife or husband or whatever. Here, it's like, no, they're just straight up talking about cocaine all the time. No code words, nothing like that. And I later obtained hundreds of thousands of non-messages and spent months reading them, waking up, reading them, going to my day job, reading more in the evening, to build up a picture of Microsoft and his associates and other criminals as well. And I think I felt the same sort of sensation that the FBI
must have felt because it was insane. Just every single chat in there is about some sort of really serious crime. We're going to kill this person. We're going to hunt down this one. We're going to torture this one. We're going to throw grenades through this window. It was genuinely overwhelming. For you as a person moving through the world, what is it like spending that much time inside the minds of people for whom, you know, murdering people is normal and something that they
text about? I read so many messages sent by and about Microsoft that I genuinely started to realize what this person was like. I would be reading the chat messages and I think to myself, oh, Microsoft's not going to like that. He's going to get rid of it. And then a couple of pages later, he's popping off, shouting at people, saying he's going to kill them. And I'm like, well, I know Microsoft at this point. I think he's probably going to chill out now. He's got to have
his system. I'm sure enough for four pages later, he's all chilling. We're back to dealing with metamine. And that is the sensation that some of these agents got that I've heard from. And I mean, I talked to a lot of criminals. I see a lot of criminal behavior, but it was incredibly unusual to just have sort of the callousness presented in front of me where they're literally ordering assassinations with like emojis. And at one point, Microsoft asks, can I get a bulk
discount if I have a hitman do three or four hits at once? And like, that's something you would think would be in a movie, but it would be a little bit too on the nose. And it's like, this, this is real. And it really blew me away. And what, sorry, several questions. Why is, what is
the emoji for an assassination? Or is it more like good job killing him smiley face? Smiley face, sunglasses, emojis, thumbs up, crying laughing came up a lot with like, ha ha ha ha, you know, we've done that or just strings after they'd actually successfully done an assassination. Like they don't care. This is just part of their business and they order an assassination
with the casualness that like you would order like takeoff food. And from a law enforcement perspective, like if you have Microsoft ordering deaths on your phone network, aren't you, don't you need to do something about that? Yeah. Even though legally, a norm wasn't a wiretapped for various quirks in US law, they treat it ethically as such, which means that if you're listening to a wire and there's a clear threat to life against somebody like, we're going to go kill this
person at this time with this weapon. The FBI are of a law enforcement typically acts and maybe they go and arrest the hitman if they know who that is. Maybe they send a squad car to the approximate location and turn on their sirens and that will scare some people off or often this case, they'll warn the victim and be like, we're not going to tell you how, but we know there is a tangible threat to your life and we recommend that you change up your routine or weaken off
your protection. And that happened tons of times throughout a norm. In one case, a murder was planned on the FBI's app from sourcing the weapon to tracking the target, to luring this target to a specific place, to then gloating about the murder and it was successful. The entire thing was planned on a norm and the issue was that the FBI did not provide those messages to the Swedish
authorities in time. Now, on the flip side, the FBI says it intervened in something like 150 threats to life, but hey, at least one person died as well and I don't know, are we okay with that trade off? Are we okay with that sort of balancing act there? Right, you have to decide when the trap closes shut. After the break, the trap does close shut. The end of Operation Trojan Shield and a very bad day for some enthusiastic phone recommenders. Let's have some ads.
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Of all the criminals caught in a nom's dragnet, the one Joseph found was fascinating with Microsoft. The drug dealer of all trades, who was one of a nom's biggest evangelists, accidentally leading so many of his friends and associates directly into the FBI's trap. In your reporting, you focus on Microsoft, but the sense I got is that the authorities were also focusing on Microsoft that have all the sort of dots on the map that they could pay attention to.
It almost, I got the sense that at some point, they were almost like playing God with him and like Old Testament God with him in a really unusual way. Yeah, Microsoft was designated a high-value target by the Swedish authorities. And they already knew about Microsoft like he'd been arrested a little bit before, but they had no idea about his amphetamine lab in the Swedish countryside. They had no idea about some of these other drug operations until they got the insight from a nom.
And the Swedish authorities that I spoke to, they said they deliberately wanted to sort of put the pressure on him. They wanted to squeeze him a little bit. So when they shut down his amphetamine lab, they didn't actually arrest everybody just then, even though they could have done, they wanted to lay in wait and let's see what these people do. Like maybe they'll do more incriminating stuff, maybe they'll make some mistakes. We also want Microsoft to have to owe people
money. Like this will fuck with him basically and that played out beautifully for the authorities. And the idea is that the more they fuck with him, the more he has to reach out to other people to do more business with. And he's like a a barrier that is going through this criminal network and they're going to see more and more of it. Yeah, he's going to get more and more desperate.
He's going to look for other ways to make money. He's going to bring in more criminals to a nom because again, he wants to do more trafficking operations, but he needs more people to come on the network so he can make more money. And it's like this, and the cycle wave, we just keep pushing him. He will accelerate and just keep going as well. It's just funny, like I've had spells of my life where I felt like something beyond me was confounding every like every time
I needed luck to work out, it didn't. But it's never been the case that there was actually someone pulling the strings to mess with me. It's just strange to think that once for someone that was actually the case. I hate it. I read the somewhere. Oh my god. Like all the things going wrong in my life is there something going on behind the scenes now and it's like fueling my paranoia. It's not pleasant. I have to forget. No, no, this was a very specific incident. Don't read into it too much.
So Microsoft, how does Microsoft find out is he find out from the press conference? Like at what point does he finally realize like, oh, the thing everyone was saying to me was in fact true. So in the lead up to the press conference, what law enforcement do is they follow the sun, which means that they start with their wave of arrests in Australia. Then it will move over to
Europe until eventually do the press conference in San Diego announcing the operation. But during that time, of course, with the Australian arrests, some people in Europe realize, hey, something's going on. As criminals all over the world were arrested, suspicions grew, but nobody knew for sure that a nom was an FBI operation until that gleeful San Diego press conference with the US Attorney
announcing the program's success and finally closing the trap. According to Joseph, part of the FBI's calculation for ending the operation weirdly had just been due to the overwhelming success of a nom. Towards the end, so many criminals were on the network, sending so many millions of texts that for the government, just monitoring them and preventing murders was beginning to require too much manpower. So after about three years of running a nom,
that's why the FBI decided to shut it down. By the time of that press conference announcing the trap, over 800 arrests had been made. But I was surprised to learn that Microsoft and his buddy Hakanai Ek were not among them. Despite being high value targets, they'd slip the net, at least at first. Half a year after the big bust, Joseph Cox is tooling around online and he sees Hakanai Ek, now an international fugitive, behaving on the internet in an astonishingly brazen way. I see a
Google account in Hakanai Ek's name and I'm pretty sure it's him. Starts leaving more Google reviews at restaurants across Turkey and this is about six months after the operation. Wait, he's an international fugitive. He's the most wanted person from Australia and he's just saying like this don't work about a place rocks. Yeah, he's like, this restaurant is great, five stars, amazing service. I really like the food in this place and I put them on a map and I'm following
them. He's like, oh, he's having a great time. Like going around Turkey, going to these tourist spots. Is it risky behavior? Yes. But who among us has not had an especially good meal and felt like he just had to share their feelings with the internet. Consequences be damned. That's why I'm following that and to me that shows, damn, this guy is so bold and he's flexing to the authorities. Like you just ran the biggest sting operation ever and I'm out here having
a really good meal and pulling it basically on Yelp or Google reviews all over. Yeah, that audacity does come to a halt when very surprisingly Turkish authorities launch a large series of coordinated raids against organized criminals inside the country. That sweeps up. Hakanai also gets migrants off and a ton of other people connected to their network. He was Australia's most
wanted man but tonight Hakanaiik is behind bars in a Turkish prison. Aik, who's accused of running a global drug empire, was sensationally arrested in Istanbul where he'd been hiding out since fleeing Sydney. Turkish police video of these raids included not just body hemphitage but also cinematic drone shots and Hollywood scoring. You see the cops bang on iX door and then they're in his apartment. He's on his knees shirtless, hands cuff behind his back surrounded by masked Turkish cops.
They pick up 36 other Hakanaiik associates including Microsoft. Microsoft looks completely dumb founded and surprised in that footage and what we know now is that they're probably sat in a cell somewhere in Istanbul or otherwise in Turkey but their fate remains unclear and one associate of Hakanai spoke to him immediately after that. He said that of course it's a speed bump but I don't
think is the end of this story. This is one of the most successful criminals ever and especially successful at getting away from the cops whenever it feels like they finally have him in their grasp. And so what is the fallout from all of this? What in the world after this operation has happened, has been revealed? What is the world we are now living in? Well the drug trade continues.
They haven't stopped. They haven't stopped and of course it would be a bit unfair to lump the entire drug trade on one operation but even when the largest sting operation ever can't really put a sizable dent in the drug trade, maybe there should be a different approach and even some of the Swedish officials I spoke to, they brought this up like we're seizing these shipments of cocaine, we're resting these people, more criminals take their place and then more cocaine comes.
Like maybe this is the wrong approach, right? So you have that. What you also have is that I think the FBI was really successful in sowing that mistrust in the encrypted phone industry and drug traffickers I've spoken to and people who sell these phones since the operation, they say it's basically impossible to build a customer base at this point because everybody suspects well what if
the FBI is behind that phone as well? Remember this had been one of the FBI's goals. To de-legitimize the encrypted phones made specifically for criminals as a piece of technology.
To shut down not just one tech company but an entire category of technology itself, the way Google Glass killed iGlass computers for a decade or the way that crashing flying cars set those vehicles back for quite some time and in this law enforcement was successful but Joseph says that success has created a new problem because now some criminals who want privacy have learned that they're better off using the same tools everyone else does, encrypted messaging apps like
signal. Which means if the FBI runs another similar sting operation, they might be scraping up messages not just from the Microsofts of the world but from you, different people you know. Joseph believes we need to decide if that's a trade-off we're comfortable with.
Do we want law enforcement to touch these consumer platforms at all and it's incredibly complicated and fraught issue but we're even seeing it like in Europe they're proposing legislation to scan the contents of encrypted messages for child sexual abuse imagery and then potentially other crimes as well. Like it's not even in the shadows the like the European Legislative is just coming out and saying we want to do this so maybe it's time we sort of
pay attention to what these people are asking. I mean it's funny I found reading your book it it confounded some of the ideas I'd walked into it with which is to say as a journalist I feel like it wouldn't be terribly surprising for me to say like my biases are towards privacy and obviously you know the same encryption technology that is going to be used by political dissidents is going to be used by people doing all sorts of terrible things and my feeling tends to
be that privacy is worth it. Reading this particular story where it's a phone company used by almost exclusively criminals and where the crimes that are being documented are like incredibly violent incredibly heinous I was very much like rooting for the surveillance state anyway that I don't always do. First of all I'm just like curious how you felt. Did you feel that way because I feel like you are also a privacy minded person but this is like at least one case where I feel like perhaps
I don't know you can see the FBI side of things. I think that's why it's so fascinating because you'll have privacy-focused people read the book and they've told me oh my god this is terrifying and horrifying they did this and then you'll have people who are more on the law enforcement side and they'll read it and they go this is fucking awesome this is really cool and then I think a ton of people will be in the middle and genuinely won't know what to think about it because you absolutely
can see it on both sides and I've again I've heard from people who also lean more on the privacy side they've actually shifted somewhat they're like to be fair as you say this was a network primarily for criminals and I think that is the key thing right this is not signal it's not WhatsApp but it's
not one of these consumer apps but it is a warning shot of the incredible amount of resources the law enforcement may put towards fighting this problem and it's what happens now that I think people may want to worry about or may want to think about but for years we've had to like speculate
or just basically make up what would it be like if the FBI got a back door into a tech product well now we know there's literally the case is it like it actually happened so if we can digest this and we can figure out okay now do we want authorities to read all encrypted messages
or not and personally there are like free options I see in front of me the first is that secure apps give more data to the authorities you know are you send us a peanut to signal they give information about the user that's pretty problematic because that could be very easily abused for various
reasons and with undermining the security of the apps okay sure you have the second one which is like well that's just run the apps and get all of the messages on it like they did were not which obviously to me is insane compromising entire communication platform you then have something else
which I believe but I know people disagree with me there is another option of targeted hacking you have malware that can be delivered to a specific device to a specific user and harvest only a small particular amount of information which is allowed under that countries or agencies laws or whatever if those are the free options I would take the hacking one just because it's like it's the less bad out of all the flows and some people will come forward and say why do you have to pick one
and I think it's because the status quo is just not sustainable we had the status quo for ages and then the FBI decided to run its own tech company that's what happens right when there's a status quo they'll keep doing these crazy brazen operations like do you want them to do that or do you want
them to do something less and dice it right because I mean the thing that you're pointing to is I don't traffic cocaine the podcast industry is not doing that badly I mean we'll see you know but like so I don't have to worry because if all the cocaine travelers are on one app yeah the FBI
can listen and it really is not a big deal signal which everyone I know uses as just a communications platform one of the things it offers is that it's encrypted but like I have journalist friends who just like the idea of an encrypted app I people who use signal because people they know you
signal you know the Microsoft's of their life came and said like just use this thing in school I know people who participate as customers in illicit drug markets and use signal when I first got it everybody knew as a journalist or a low level law breaker and when I saw someone on I was like
oh which one are they maybe they're both at this point a lot of people are on it and so if the FBI monitored every single signal message and then they chose what to discard yeah I would feel like my privacy was being compromised and what you're saying is now that this has happened with
a non the next frontier are these places where criminals and non criminals mix and meet and so we kind of have to decide and you're saying your proposal would be rather than letting law enforcement ease drop on an entire network why don't we make it's that law enforcement has to go to the phone
and if they think that I'm a cocaine trafficker they have to get in my phone rather than going to the signal foundation yeah and there's a lot of nuance to it in that you know the FBI will have an exploit to get into an iPhone and that will allow them into it and then Apple will learn about
that and get Ray Ray mad and then they'll fix it and then the FBI will have to buy another exploit and yes there's a lot of money involved I've reported a lot on the people who sell exploits for iPhones and it's something like five million dollars for a full IOS end to end chain which is break
into the phone and get the data and extract it that's a lot of money but I don't know FBI I just get more money or something like I don't know just figure it out and of course that's kind of easy for me to say but they I would take that over well now we have a turnkey solution where we could just
read all messages all the time and again I'm not saying they've done that I'm not even saying they would do that but I know the FBI is looking for the next iteration of this operation because they've said so as much like I've heard from the agents and they say they're looking forward to whatever the
next version of the anomal operation is and and for for the search engine listener who is also a criminal what is the perfect phone for a criminal to use in 2024 I mean I would probably use a graphing OS phone which is a custom security focused fork of Android but it is not one of these like
shady companies you go buy it from it's like an open source project that's made by security researchers and that sort of thing and you download it and you install it for your web browser I've done it it's really cool it takes 30 seconds or a couple of minutes I would do that I would then
use an app like signal and of course I'm not actually giving advice to criminals I'm doing this because if I was just an ordinary user looking for the most secure phone solution it would also probably be something like that so if you're a search engine listener who wants privacy for any
reason no judgments here you criminal freaks your question has been answered Joseph thank you thank you so much for having me Joseph Cox he's the co-founder of the independent website 404 media one of my favorite homes for tech reporting online his very wonderful book about a nom is
called dark wire go read out there's a lot more story than we were able to get into here so search engine is a presentation of Odyssey and jigsaw productions it was created by me PJ vote and truthy opinionate this produced by garrick Graham and Noah john fact checking this week by
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