Scrubbing In with Becca Tilly and Tanya rap An iHeartRadio podcast.
Hello everybody, we are scrubbing in.
Crum a dub dumb sultry.
We have a very special fun guest coming in today. Who.
Yeah, we've had her on the pod before.
She's a repeat scrubbing in guest.
Yeah, but we'll welcome her an any day.
Anytime she wants to scrub in. We open the O our door.
We always are O. Our doors are open to you. Sarah Drew.
Sarah Drew. You know her as April Kepner on Grey's Anatomy. She is a writer, she's a producer. She really does it all.
She does do it all.
We couldn't be more excited to have her here with us today. So please everyone welcome Sarah Drew. Everyone's always like, do I clop for myself? I just feel like.
I'm a celebratory person in general, So why not?
We were just actually I was we were just saying, I think I don't know if we've discussed this, but I feel like what we know about you, you're like a Tanya. You're Tanya in.
Every way. Oh yeah, that's fun. Yeah? Are you sensitive?
Yes?
Okay, are you a great friend, I hope. So are you happy, go lucky? Yes, positive, super, yes, your Tanya?
Yeah?
Yes?
What else?
What else? No? No, I don't are you? Are you territorial?
I'm actually not possessive or territorial. I feel like I also like I am. I'm positive in that I am constantly on the hunt for the good, even if there's something painful that's going on. There's just like I know there's going to be a nugget of gold in here, so I got to find it. But it doesn't ignore I don't ignore the like the reality of the heart
and the pain. I think I I and I parent that way too, because my parents, my kids experience pain all the time, you know, and so you can either try to protect them for it or you can help them sort of grow through it and find the goodness in the midst of it. So she's more true Lulu, not de Lulu.
She feels more she feels like a Tanya beca hybrid.
On the spot, which is a really nice place to be a good balance.
Yeah, so I was first of all, we're so excited to have you back. We love you.
It's been a long time since you've been on the pod.
I think I wasn't on. I think the last time I was on was twenty eighteen because I was there with Justin Bruening demoting that our movie Indivisible.
Yep, I think you guys didn't we do a zoom thing where we introed that that movie or show that you were you were in and everyone was like coming in and we did the interviews and the intro yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, and we.
Were in the it was pandemic, like a part of Pandemic and I zoom.
That must have been a long time soon.
Because I had to go into a little room and even though you were there, right, that was such a fun event.
Actually, yeah, it did such a great job considering the circumstances of it.
It was so magical all of us on our balconies watching the show. All the rooms were decked out in nineties paraphernalia.
Probably very expensive for them, but we did appreciate it.
It was really fun.
We saw each other in Chicago, yes, yes, and then we ran out of time. We were supposed to do the pod. I was supposed to do the pod in Chicago at Epicons. But backing up a little bit to the night before, that this is my favorite thing ever. So we did a pod swap with Camilla and Jessica. So we did a call it scrubbing in crossover. Oh that's so fun, so cute, right, so cute, And we've had Camilla on the podcast a few times. So we're like,
you know, old fast friends. And it was late, like we were doing it at like five o'clock or something, five or six.
Yeah, they had just fawn in. They were like, we have some dinner with friends, ate dinner with friends later.
So we were like, oh, wow, okay, thinking like they were going to invite us to dinner.
I didn't think that, by the way, I have, I have realistic expectations.
And Delulu comes in, Yes, I was like waiting for them to invite us to dinner with everybody?
Do you mean truth and delusional?
Yeah by Lulu and yeah yeah, yeah, I was trying to now I understand.
So I was waiting for the invite.
The invite didn't come, and then we saw later that night that you were at the dinner and like Jake BURRELLI, who we also love, and I was like, we totally could have fit in on this dinner.
You could have you could have I know.
That's what I thought too, Thank you. I hadn't seen seen everybody in a long time years, so it was nice to have a little like one time.
Yeah, to have it kind of like in the family, you know what I mean. You're always welcome, not to exclude you, but just we were. We'd been looking for to just getting that time to be together for a long time. I hadn't seen I hadn't seen any of them for years.
That's crazy because in my mind, like, and this is gonna sound probably crazy to you, but it's like in my mind when you're watching like old episodes of Grey's Anatomy, like I feel like you guys see each other.
Yeah, you just assume we're all doing life together constantly.
Yeah, it's so wild.
So I was listening to your podcast that you did for Call It What It Is, and you were talking about how the when you and Jessica Capshaw left Arizona and April it felt very abrupt, and I've always wondered because I was so devastated, And if I'm being completely honest, that is kind of when I feel like the show for me lost this sparkle, sparkle. I'm seriously and i'd watch.
I mean it, so she speaks for a lot of us. Yeah, but I do feel like there was a moment when that happened and I was like, I think the fans were going, where did this come from? This happened out of nowhere, And then hearing that it was the same for y'all made me feel really defensive and angry because I was like, wait, they didn't even know that it was coming.
Oh yeah, but I mean that's not news though. I mean, I think we both posted about it right when it first happened, just like, wow, this is new information. I remember posting right like the day after saying I'm I'm sad. I know you're sad too. I've been with this information for forty eight hours and here we go. I'm gonna keep showing up with a whole heart for the rest of my time here. And her story's not done yet.
But I think whenever anybody leaves any of these beloved shows, it feels really abrupt, because you know, you get attached to characters. Of course, the audience gets attached. We get attached playing the characters, so yeah, it is a it's always abrupt.
Well did it feel I liked hearing you say that you felt at peace, though, like there was something about that that I was like, wow that. I just feel like that's a testament to who you are as a person though, because I feel like you don't. I don't know you own a deep level, but I feel like you're the type who doesn't hold grudges. You're kind of like, this was a time in my life and it led me to this place of doing what I'm doing now, and it was a stepping stone, but absolutely.
It was a season of my life and I think I learned so many amazing lessons while doing the show, and also in the wake of being let go, I grew as a person. I grew in resilience, I grew in my sense of purpose and my sense of things happening for a reason, you know that way. And also, I mean, the thing I said on the other podcast too, is I just felt so unbelievably loved and cared for
in the middle of all of it happening. I was so overwhelmed by the love the fans showed and the you know, the cast and the crew and just it was this outpouring of love that was so incredible. You could reach out and touch it. It was it was bananas, I think, and I'll never I'll never be sad that that happened, because it was such a glorious moment in the midst of something that was hard.
You know, were you at a point of being on the show where you saw an end like that you would choose to leave? Was there any of that leading up again? Yea, I would have.
Really No, I don't think I would have. But I think, you know, it's amazing how life works in funny ways, because I think what the next chapter of my career was sort of it was almost like it was waiting for me, my next chapter, and I didn't see it. I didn't know that that's what was supposed to happen next. But then getting to step into it and go, oh, I've gained a voice while being on this show. I know I know how to advocate from my character in
a lot of ways. I learned how story, when story works, when story can be elevated. You know, there's all kinds of things I learned just being there day in and day out that I wouldn't have necessarily gone, oh I should be a writer next, or oh I should be at or oh I should I should produce next, but then getting the opportunity to then go out into the world and kind of go, well, what is next. Maybe
I'll try this, maybe I'll try that. And now I feel like I'm really living into my purpose in a way that feels really exciting.
I feel like because I think you you obviously understand, like obviously when we were Epicon, you see like the Gree's anatomy, uh Zeitgeist's multiverse, multiverse that that is out there and the fans. I feel like, and when we were talking to Jessica, she said, like, there's more to the story of me leaving, but I'm not ready to like share that story yet. And I feel like there's so much in there that like we don't know, do
you know what I mean? Like there's so much that went on that we're like kind of always left wondering. And I'm feeling like one day there's gonna be there has to be some sort of like docu series tell like people share, but like I really do like I feel like there's going to maybe it's in ten years, maybe it's in twenty years. I feel like that's coming. Would you ever participate?
I don't know, you'll have to ask me in ten years.
I think.
I think there's always more to every story than what gets out into the world. And there are things that I that I will always hold on to that I don't have any interest in talking about. You know. It's not useful to either the audience or to me, you know, and I I, I guess that's probably all I want to.
Say, you know. But the thing that's useful, and like what I find to be very interesting about this stuff is women in the industry, right, you know, like how much we have to advocate for ourselves, where that fine line is of standing up for yourself and advocating versus being grateful for your job and your position, and how much to speak up and what you know, like as women, if we assert ourselves you were a bitch or were this, and we're that and so so it's like finding this
fine line. And so I do feel like there is a lot of purpose in sharing like our stories when it comes to that type of stuff, which I do feel like happens a lot in the entertainment industry.
It is hard being a woman in a leadership position anywhere. Yeah, I had one of my best friends is has a really kind of high up position in a very very all boys club kind of work place, and she's had to kind of come up with a very specific way of confronting someone when they're not doing their job where she has to look them in the eye and not smile.
And she's a very warm, bubbly, smiley, loving kind person, but she has to kind of go step by step by step to say what needs to be said to establish I'm in charge here, you are not doing your job. And still there are peope, there are men that don't like when she confronts them, right because they're like, why do you Why weren't you warned to me? Why weren't you smiling to me? Why weren't you Like you're you're
a horrible person. Like if you had been not doing your job and a man had been in charge, this whole scene would have gone very very differently and you would not be complaining about it. You know. It is a very very strange line to walk and a thing that we're thinking about all the time. I find myself in emails saying, so you know, what I was thinking is maybe if if you don't mind it, they are all these extra caveats I put into emails to make people feel like I'm not mad at them or I
want them to tel comfortable. But I still have to get at what I do, and then I have to go back and edit my emails to be very clear about what the expectations are while still being respectful and making people feel valued and appreciated for what they bring to the table. But it is it is a tightrope walk all the time. Yeah, I think.
Yeah, I was.
Wondering on that podcast you were saying, how that how you would I think they're saying you and Sondra was it that had an opinion on how something was written, or like my character wouldn't do that and you were inspired? I know you were saying that about Sandra. Oh, like how you were very inspired by her doing that. How far into being on the show did you have feel like you had a voice to speak up for what the storyline was.
I didn't, So I didn't really start using my voice until they wrote into my character that my character was a Christian because I have a lot of experience with that. I grew up in the church, my dad is a pastor, I am a person of faith, and so I had actually a lot of insight into that world and I and I remember when they first decided that my character was going to be somebody who loved Jesus, they welcomed me.
And I remember having a conversation with Shanda where she said, look, you know that world really really well, and I'm interested in telling a very real, engrounded story about a person of faith, So pitch stories to me and if anything doesn't feel right, you come in and let us know.
And it was really that door opening. And then and then also the example of watching Sandra advocate for her character with such respect and collaboration with the writers and their relationship was so good and so beautiful, and it was a beautiful thing to witness, so so kind of seeing how she did it and then being given the open door and to come, please come tell us how you feel about this allowed me to really participate in the journey that April took, specifically in the faith journey.
You I'm gonna say you, I'm not going to say they, because like you did such an amazing job of like taking a character that came off at first so annoying, yeah, I know, and made her so lovable. Really, Like when I first met April, I was like, oh no, make her going and make her I need her gone. And then I fell so in love with you. You became one of my favorite and that's hard to do. I think in the history of grays Now and me, the only
other character that did that for me was Addison. Oh yes, you know, it's so interesting because for me, that just feels like being human, you know, because it's so easy to have a snap judgment about someone right off the bat,
about I don't like that person's energy or whatever. And then when you start to crack away at the surface and the vulnerability comes out, and you see the pain that that person has brought to the situation that's maybe created that sort of an energy, and then you see that person fight against hardships and you see her rise to the occasion and become heroic.
In the midst of she had some bullying happened to her, you know, like the other doctors also found her quite annoying for many years. Yeah, So watching her kind of just relentlessly try to do the right thing, even if she failed, even if she was messy, she still like had this heart of wanting to be good and wanting to show kindness and wanting to do good in the world.
And I think you just can't help but love someone when they begin to crack open, no matter where they're coming from, no matter what you know, side of the aisle they're on. As soon as you someone becomes human. And I think that was what was so fun about April's that over the course of my nine years playing her, she just became more and more and more human. There were just so many more colors that I got to play, like six different versions of the same person, which felt
very much like really growing in adulthood. You know, you do change a lot as a person in your twenties and thirties, you change a lot. So really getting to live into that and breathe into that was such a privilege.
Like I just saw this is very recently in my TikTok algorithm, Thank you very much, someone was showing their husband. They were watching grays at me from the beginning, like they were showing their husband for the first time, and there were it was the episode where you get married.
Oh my gosh, I saw that to you, Oh my gosh, it was the cutest. When Jackson stands up and she was like she could not hand.
Yeah, better wait and that's it so good.
It was so so goodd I love do you go in there and like, do you ever want to like stitches it stitch what do these people do with these people?
And like that would be somebody used to show me how to do that. I have a TikTok, but I'm never on it, and I think that would be really fun.
But like people don't react like that anymore to television.
I feel, yeah, like yeah, And also because like that ended on a cliffhanger and then it didn't come back fin hour. Yeah, and it didn't come back for months, so people were just like what happened?
Yeah?
Did you because you were talking about her being a Christian and you being a person of faith, and you said that if April hadn't been a Christian, your role would have been a lot easier. You made the common about that, but at the same time, it opened the door for you to have a say in the character.
So when you found that out, because I grew up very Christian and was like very much in the church, and even talking about Christianity and faith in terms of anything in my life gives me so much anxiety talking about it, Like yeah, on the podcast, even it's like you don't want to offend people or say the wrong thing, and it's such a personal experience. But did you find that that was why I brought so much pressure onto playing that character. Yeah.
I think because prior to April, we hadn't really seen any Christian characters that weren't just like one dimensional villains, that weren't just like bigoted faces.
Yeah.
And I and I I felt a desire to represent my community and my friend my friendships and the way I try to walk out in the world. And I'm I'm not a jerk face, you know. I am generous with my heart and I'm not judgmental, and I'm welcoming in a lot of way, like you know, you believe, I believe in Jesus, and that's who Jesus was. That is literally who he was all about, welcoming everybody, saying
come as you are, you know. And so I just I really felt like I wanted to have an opportunity to show the people that represented me, a person that represented what my faith journey was. So I was it was a privilege, but it was also it was hard. It was hard to kind of try to try to get in there and offer a new thought or shifted one of the thoughts, or you know whatever, all the little things that you do to kind of go well, how about we think about it in this way, or
how about we think about it in this way? And also the pressure of then presenting a new version of a person of faith on television and hoping that the people out there that connect with her will really feel seen. You know, that's all. It's all just about feeling seen. You want everybody and everybody. I mean, that show is so amazing at allowing so many different people to feel seen. So that was really important to me for the people that I grew up with and people that I'm doing
life with to really feel seen. In April as well, I have.
A question about Gray's around me, and then I want to move on because we can.
Take a break after your next question and then we'll come back.
So I get to ask my question. Then we're taking Ariad correct. I normally thought to break.
So she's trying to.
Do you. I know it was so long ago, and I know that sometimes it's like you or you get the script? Do you do the script? And then you probably like move on a little bit, unless a fan brings it up. But do you have any moments where you got the script at the table read and you were like, Oh my gosh, I cannot believe I'm about to get to act this out.
Oh for sure, I would say the first time that happened was the Shooter episode in season six, that huge speech that I was given. It was the first time they'd given me something. The writers had given me something to like really sink my teeth into. And then I was given tons of stuff throughout the nine years on the show, but I feel like that was the first moment where I was like, I have I have a huge job ahead of me. I gotta nail this because I was still in audition mode basically when we shot
that episode. I wasn't a series regular yet I have been. You know, I'd done two episodes and I and my character got fired and I was I thought I was done with the show forever, and then they called me back and brought me in. But it was sort of this strange every three episodes you get a little tiny bump and then you and then they don't even tell you until June whether you're picked up as a series regular. So all season six, every single script I got I'm like, can I show them what I can do? Can I
show them what I can do? You know? It was just this, It was it felt like a whole season long audition, so getting razy crazy. So then getting that episode, I was like, I gotta nail this. I really got to nail this, and it was. It was one of those kind of iconic moments the show. So thank you for saying that, But it was.
It wasn't an what did you What was your process to get into the headspace to do a scene like that?
Like, I don't do my process. I don't do like I don't try to access past traumas or past tarts. My characters, all the characters I play have had so much more trauma in their life than I have. So it's really an exercise of imagination for me. So it is. And I also sometimes if I have to get emotional, I'll I have like a sad mix that I'll plug myself into just to stay and block out stay in a moment in the kind of energy of emotion and
kind of block out everything else that's going on. But it really for me is all about using my senses to create the reality of this particular moment for this particular person. Sometimes I journal in the voice of the character. I just it's full imagination for me, and that's what I do. Yeah, I don't do I don't. I know. Some actors like to do past hurts and past traumas. That doesn't actually work. It completely takes me out of a scene. For me, I have to just plant my
body into these present circumstances. That's that's how I do it.
And then you just go home and then you mom.
No, but then you go back. I didn't have kids at that point, but you do. I had residual panic attacks from that for like a good week after just all of a sudden, the cortisol levels would spike, and I would be like, you know, because your body when you work yourself into a panic that feels that real and is that you're trying, you really trying to ground yourself. This is happening right now, There is a gun right now,
I might die right now. Your body reacts as if that's really happening, and your body doesn't know that it's your imagination that's caught it causing it. So it really does take time for your body to shift out of it. That's why I went into premature labor with my daughter.
What scene?
But when when I gave birth to Samuel and he died in my arms? I was eight months pregnant with Hannah. Oh fully eight months pregnant. Yeah, and I yeah, I was eight months pregnant and then I shot that scene. It was ten hours on set, labor delivery death, baby dies in my arms, and I went home and went into premature labor ten hours later and she was born a month early. And it was in the nique for two weeks.
Oh my gosh, I have chills. And that is crazy, so intense.
That took some therapy to get over.
Yeah, I was like, I lighten things.
I think I did that to my kid, and I feel horrible that I did that to my kid. She's super healthy and super great and everything is fine. But yeah, it was because my body was like, oh, we're doing it. Yeah, I guess we're doing it now.
Wow, that's so crazy.
Wow, Okay, we're gonna take a break and digest and we'll be right back. All right, we are back. So Tony was saying she wanted to tell all eventually, but you have a show that you don't even feel like there will be a tell all necessary, all the tell will be just.
It was rainbows and puffies and happy lands. I just it is such a sweet community. We laughed every day of ten weeks of shooting. The writing is so good, the leadership was so Can I tell you something really fun about our production. Our producer, like boots on the ground producer, had this thing where he would do every Friday, people all week love it. I don't even know what
you're say. I love it. So all week long people would nominate the best employee all week long, and on Friday before we started shooting, they would be announced as the winner. They get one hundred dollars bill and then their faces on the call sheet for the whole next week is Employee of the week. And so it just created this culture where you just want to speak well about people this You got to look at what they're doing.
Did you ever get employee of the week. No, the actors and producers, but it was just the people were like activated to work hard. We stuck to ten hour work days, which just kept everybody happy. We had our showrunner and producer. They're a married couple and they're the most collaborative, kind hearted and also smart. The show is so good, and so I just sometimes you have a really beautiful experience on set and then the thing comes out and it's it's great, but it's nothing to write
home about, you know. And sometimes the show is amazing, but there's all kinds of drama behind the scenes. It's rare when you get like a diamond d experience when you're shooting something and then it turns out as beautifully as it turned out that I can be. I'm so proud of it. So I'm I hope we get to do it for years.
If you could compare it to a show that like the vibe of it, what would you compare it to, I would say it's Verona Kamars meets Murders.
She wrote with the backdrop of Cozy Christmas.
Wow, so kind of like, oh my gosh, why am I blinking on the name of the show with Lucy Hale. Oh it was on ABC Family Tru.
Oh, Pretty Little Liars, Pretty Little Liars.
You know what's funny is my lead act for my Christmas My other Christmas movie I wrote is from Pretty Little Liars. But I've never seen a single episode of the show. I know it's crazy, so but I have a feeling that show was maybe a little bit a touch darker because there are murder mysteries happening in mistle
Chow murders, but there's also like it's still Cristials. It's like Christmas Noir, you know, but it felt it feels like Veronica Mars to me in that there is one mystery that gets solved every two episodes, but then there's a broader mystery through line of who is this woman? Who is Emily Lane? She there's more to her than meets the eye. She has all these skills that a
retail owner should not possess. She's crazy for Christmas, and yet she might have kind of a dark past, and and it's it's really, it's really really kind of fascinating. So the bigger mystery is what is her story? And you get little snippets and little breadcrumbs throughout the whole first season.
Can I ask you a question that really, like, I don't I don't understand the decision making behind the one week every week drop an episode, Oh, because you.
Wanted to just be all bit yeah, Like I.
Think, oh, I like the once a week no, but I feel.
Like there's there was like this whole thing. When streaming came about, it was like, Oh, everything's like did you binge this? Did you binge this? And then I feel like it's now going the other way where all these shows are doing dropping once a week.
I think it's to get water cooler moments. I think they want people to watch it and build up, Oh what's the next one. I'm dying for the next episode, and they're talking about it, and that's what That's what I thought was really cool about Cruel Summer. When we did Cruel Summer, it was every week, it was a ten week, ten weeks of episodes and dropped once a week, and I think people were I mean, TikTok was went crazy with it, just having all kinds of conspiracy theories
about what actually happened. And so first show show this sort of a mystery show where you're trying to figure some stuff out. It's sort of fun to let people wait. But I know some people will not start watching it until the last one, just the binge, because it's it's it's weird, you know, Like I do understand. I understand the getting everybody hyped up, you know, But then I also I'm one of those people where like when I sit down to watch something and I can only watch
one episode, get mad. I'm like, this is not okay.
I've been trained the other way. Now now you're trying to train me to go back your survivor not happily.
But there's no joy.
So it premiered on on Triber thirty. First premiered on Halloween, which I think is fun, so fun. Yeah, and then it goes into it's like everyone gets to have it for the holiday season of like gearing up for Christmas and the holidays, which I love. And you also have another movie coming out that you wrote and.
Directed, produce produce, Yeah, executive produce.
So I want to know as someone who has typically always been in front of the camera, because I know, did you direct episodes on Grace?
I directed a web series. We did a web series my last year on the show was called B Team. It actually was. It was nominated for an Emmy. I got to go to the Emmys with it. Yeah. I think it's just look a Gray's Anatomy. B Team. I think you can find it on ABC dot com. You can find it on YouTube. It's there, okay, but there. It was a six, little two minute episodes, and yeah, I directed that web series uh right, right before I left the show. And I've I directed a radio play
last December that was a lot of fun. And I've shadowed a bunch, but I've been doing a lot more producing, and then I've now written and produced three films.
So do you have what is where do you find? I know you probably will say both, find the joy I'm doing both. But what are the things that you love about writing something and watching it come to life? Because I feel like that would be so cool to have an idea and writing a script is really hard, my girlfriend, and yeah it's crazy. Yeah, But I just want to know what it's like for you to watch something that you wrote and are producing, come to see it come to fruition.
It's so exciting and it's so much fun. And I think I really love the process of writing. Sometimes I want to bang my head against the wall when you get, you know, a fire hose of notes and you go, oh do I even I don't think, Maybe I don't know what I'm doing at all, And then you have to go back to the drawing board. Not the drawing board, but I've had on several of these films like lots of notes that then you go and you rework it. But then you rework it and you realize, oh, this
is actually much better storytelling. This is much more interesting. This character just came to life in a new way because of this note somebody gave me. There's something. Really it feels really good when you're in the flow, when you're writing a scene. Sometimes I'll like get so gushy because I liked because I write romance. Basically, I'm like, oh, this scene, it's so delicious, so tasty. Men should always
say these things to women, you know. And and I love the idea that I'm just imagining it by myself and creating the whole picture by myself. And then I'll go back and edit it. But I can just let myself go because nobody's watching, nobody's filming me. I don't
have a finite time to shoot the scene. I'm I really get to sort of explore creatively, even more so than when I do as an actor, because I'm I'm exploring creatively every different character on top of the journey of the story and the buttons at the end of the scenes and how you move from this piece to
that piece. You know, so it's a very kind of holistic creative experience that feels really really good when it's not killing me and I'm not banging my head against a wall, and then watching it come to life is really interesting because then I have it in my head how I imagine people cans, and then you give it to somebody else, and then the director has his vision or her vision, and then the actors approach the character in
their own way. And then I got to visit on this one three times, which was really really fun, just witnessing the whole process happen and watching them find their way through the scenes and stuff. And sometimes it's it's really fun too because they'll they'll do something that I hadn't intended, but it's better, you know, and I'm like, oh, you just brought a whole other color to this scene that I hadn't even imagined. So it's it's a really fun process.
Do you have any say in casting.
The last two? No? No, that's so indesting.
Because I've always thought about that if you write it, you would think that you're get to say because you have a vision of what these people look like.
Yeah, there are a lot of people making decisions and you know, the role of executive producer kind of changes based on whatever production company you're working with, and there's some that really welcome you into the process and there's some that don't welcome you as much into the process, and you kind of just you kind of just go with the flow. It's so, yeah, I didn't, but I've been thrilled on the last two movies. With my first movie that I wrote that Justin Bruening was in with me,
I had a hand in getting to cast him. I watched audition tapes for all the supporting characters. I was in all the production meetings. Part of that was also because I was shadowing the director at the time as well, so I kind of was inside of all of the decision making. And that's that's how I prefer to do it. Yeah, but sometimes that's just not the way that it that it runs. But it's fun both ways.
Was that the movie where you wrote the first sex scene? For the Christmas movie?
So the one with Justin there wasn't a sex scene, but there was a really intense makeout scene on a porch that fades out while they're getting kind of heated on the porch. So you can kind of use your imagination of like where that went. And that was at the time the first time on Lifetime they done like a real full on makeout scene in the middle of
the movie. That so I kind of felt like I dipped my toe into bringing a little more spice and a little more heat to the typical model, which is, you know, kind of a chaste kiss at the end, and I'm like, people want, oh, not everybody, but I think there is an audience that loves a little more heat. I like that.
I mean there's a big range spectrum in between that.
I just say, My Lady Jane was my binge this year. I don't know if you guys saw.
That about it though. It's so good.
It's kind of romanticy. It's really good. Anyway, you should watch it. It's on Amazon. They didn't pick it up for a second season, which is devastating.
That's the worst.
I love, love, love, love the romance genre. I just think I just love it so much. So getting the chance to kind of push the boundary last year and then it did so well. It was their highest rated Christmas movie I think in two years, so they you know, I tried it again. People liked it there's an audience for it. So I did it again and they bought it again.
So oh that's huge.
Yeah, that's so fun.
That's really really exciting.
Thank you.
Yeah, because it's like there's there's so much out there, and so it's like when you hear that that it did so well, like that must make you feel really like proud.
Yeah, especially since I'm still sort of new at it. You know, I think I I still feel a little bit of imposter syndrome. Whenever you want to buy my script, you want to you want to make my movie. You're all in a production meeting talking about people I came up with in my brain. It feels really weird at this point of MYE have that What's that I think we are? No, we all have imposter syndrome. I know, I know what I bring to the table as an actor, and I now really have begun to see what I
bring to the table as a leader. I know I bring a lot to the table as a leader. When I'm in a leadership position, when I get to be an executive producer and get to set the tone, I know that I bring goodness, you know, And I know and I've been acting my whole life. So I know when I'm on, I know when I'm off. I know I know that I can do it. Writing still feels a little scary, like a little like somebody that I don't know how they I don't know how they're gonna if they're gonna like it.
I don't know.
After this, maybe we're gonna get another one.
One.
I just love that you had this incredible career on Graze, And I was thinking about what you said at the beginning of the podcast of like you don't know if you ever would have left, And it's like if you had never if that had never happened, you would you have stepped into these new roles that you're where you're trying new things like or would you have been comfortable in your position on grades? You know it's I I was.
I was shadowing to eventually direct episodically. Yeah, so I was already kind of in that trajectory a little bit, But it never occurred to me that I could be a writer, and I never would have done that while I was still on Graze. I don't think that ever would have happened. Ye, And I think you know, the reason I started writing is from doing one of these
Christmas movies. They did a Christmas movie called Twinkle All the Way on Lifetime and worked with these two amazing rock star female producers, Stephanie Slack and Margaret Huddleston, and I pitched them an idea after making that movie and they were and I was like, so we should probably, you know, find a writer for it. And they're like, no, you're the writer. Go buy yourself final draft. You've literally just painted the whole story for us. We're watching the
movie as you talk. You know how to write, you know, so go get final draft and write. And I would never have done it if those two women had not come into my life and had not kicked me in the butt and told me I was capable of it. And then they were my producers on my first one, on that exact one that I wrote, and they were so empowering every step of the way, so encouraging, so loving. It was just such a beautiful experience. Yeah, so nice, so good.
I love hearing that. I know. It's just cool to see women go like, you can do this, and we're gonna cheer you on to be a part of it while you do it.
Yes, it was such a gift. I just didn't even it hadn't even occurred to me that I would be the writer. I thought I'd be an executive producer on it, we'd hire a writer. I thought i'd star in it. But they're like, you're going to write it, You're going to write it, and you're you're, you're it's gonna be great.
If you got to write and then act in your dream role and your dream character, who would that be? What would who would she be?
It would be sort of it would be in the era of like a Pride and prejudice.
My girlfriend Aly loves a period piece.
I love a period piece. I love, love, love a period piece. I love I love a strong female character inside of a strange world where women do not have the rights that we know possess, and watching them resilient and bold in the midst of all of the that that the constraints that are put on them socially. So I think that would be really fun. I don't think.
I well, yes, I could, I could write out. I think something about writing for period is harder because you really do have to do a lot of research to figure out all of the social norms of the day and how do people talk to each other? And you know, it's a whole other style of writing.
The day of jorn when you are filming. So when you were doing Mistletoe Murders, were you filming that in La No, that was in Toronto, And it's how long do you film?
Ten weeks?
So you're you're in Toronto for ten weeks?
Is that crazy? Yes?
Is your family with you?
No, they're here. Yeah. So this year was insane because my husband went to teach. He teaches at Dartmouth in New Hampshire, So he went to teach for the winter semester for ten weeks in the winter, and then I was gone for ten weeks in the summer to Toronto, and then he's gone this fall again to teach at Dartmouth. My parents live with me when he goes, so I have this amazing support system because I'm in and out of town all the time. But yeah, it was definitely
challenging to not be with my family. They came to visit for I think like two and a half weeks something like that, but they do get they need they need to get back to their rhythm and their routine. The kids want to see their friends. Peter starts to go stir crazy. You know. It's it's because I'm working all the time. They come out to Toronto and then they can't really even spend very much time with me. I was also writing Carpenter Christmas Romance while I was
shooting that, so I was writing. I had to buy myself a lap desk, and I was I turned in my first draft before we started, but then I had so many notes, so I was doing my second and third drafts on my lap in the car on the way to work every day.
But it's probably fun because you can, like when you're working, you're just like solely focused on that, and then when you're home, you're just like fully mom, you know.
I find that, like this fall has been really crazy with I did a bunch of traveling, and I've done a bunch of promotional stuff and for Hallmark and a lot of a lot of press and a lot of traveling, and I find that it is very hard to be going going full time in the business and then also
have to then kids. Kids are picked up at three ten and then it's just your mom for the rest of the day, and you can't sort of recuperate or recover from so I mean, my parents are my mom and my dad are so amazing and are They're just so amazing, But it doesn't the reality of having two very full jobs at the same time. It's very present, even if you have a lot of help and a lot of support. Because when my kids are going through something, they they need mom, you know, and I want to
be mom. I don't I'm not passing that off to my parents when my son is struggling with something or my daughter's struggling with something, like I want to do that stuff. But then it just it means that I'm sometimes getting four or five hours of sleep at night. So it is, Yeah, it's a lot.
Yeah, I feel like we get we talk a lot to women in the industry that they do. It's like we are superhuman, we can do it all, but like we can't do it all at the same time. But everybody, like social media makes it seem like everybody does and that we all have it under control and like it's no big deal, and so it's like, but it is. It's the reality of the situation, you know what I mean.
And I think there's a lot of women that feel guilt in if they work too much or if they're not working at all and they're not you know, supporting in a certain way. And it's like we're just always as women made to feel guilt and shame on either matter what.
We do, no matter what we do, no matter what. If we're working all the time, if we have help, yeah, oh shame, shame, shame. If we're choose to be a stay at home mom, shame, shame, shame. You know, there's and I think the reality is you can participate in all of these things. That is true. Like I can have a full time job and be a mom, but
something is going to give constantly. I am constantly something is falling, some plate is falling all the time, and you're just in clean up on Aisle six all the time, you know, and it really comes out. I mean there's so many times, my sweet mom, because I will just I get so this fall. I've gotten so exhausted that I just burst in. I'm just sitting I'm at the kitchen sink or whatever, I'm somewhere at the dining table.
I'm like, She's like, honey, and I'm like, I know, I just really need to cry. This is so much.
It's all so much because it takes. And my kids just my daughter just started middle school and my son is in all of a sudden this year. The workload is getting to be more and there's social stuff that's happening all the time. There's so much that you want to be present for and be direct, helping to direct their steps and helping to give them the tools they need and show up for them. And then you also just can't let stuff fall by the wayside that you're
that you've committed to. It's uh, yeah, it is. It's no freaking jokes hard.
It is really hard.
So your your daughter's in middle school going into middle school.
She's in middle school now. They started in fifth grade at her school, so I feel, oh, yeah, it's young.
Yeah that's okay.
Wait fifth through eighth at their school.
Oh, I was because I was asking. I was wondering if they there's this like resurgence of people watching and binging Grace at me from the beginning. Do they have they encountered that part of your life.
They haven't done. I still feel like they're too young for Grace Academy and it wouldn't spark their interest as much. I don't think yet they've watched a bunch of my Hannah. We were just saying this on the way because we watched the first two episodes of missileto Murders last night, and my kids are so invested. They're like, where's the where's the third one? Where's the fourth? Can we know? We have to keep watching? Like I need to know what happens? What is her past? Where is she from?
You know, who's gonna be the Who's gonna be the mystery? The next time and we're driving and Micah was saying, you know you really you really enjoyed doing Mistletoe Murders, right, I was like, yeah, I loved it. He's like that's great, because you know what, it's a really good show. And I was like, thank you. He's like, I'm really into it.
You know, usually i'd get a little tired. For instance, he said, for instance, when we watched and Or a couple of years ago, when it first came out, I was less into it because it was much more character driven and there weren't as many like battle scenes. But now I think I could go back to and Or and like it more because I'm now really responding to all the character driven stuff. Yeah, And I was like Yeah,
isn't that cool? Isn't it cool that you shift and change and the stuff that you get excited about shifts and change. And then Hannah's like, but is there romance? And I was like, yeah, there's a romance in this show. And she's like, I love romance.
She gets that, honest, it seems so good.
Mic is like, I hope there isn't too much kissing.
That's so funny, so funny.
Well, I'm amazed by how you do it all. And I feel like so grateful that we've gotten to have you on the podcast and we're talking about new things and what you're doing. And it's so cool to watch you like grow as an actress and writer and producer and watch you do all these things.
And I do really appreciate you opening up about that because I just feel like it is something that is just it's a it's just an ever present. I don't know what the word that I'm looking for is, but as women that work and have kids and.
You don't stop thinking, there are things happening in your brain all the time, whether it's a conversation a hard conversation you have to have work wise, or a hard conversation you have to have kid wise, or a hard conversation you have to have with your partner about how we're doing a certain thing. Right. There is constant, it does the voice does not stop.
Yeah, I just wanted to bring up I wanted to thank you because I felt very seen at Epicon when we received a question from a fan that said, if you could have a romance with anybody living or dead on Grey's Anatomy, and you threw it back to somebody very far back in the past, that I have been preaching about him since day one, and I will die on this hill, that he was the best character male character, Andrey's lady and what was your answer, Danny do Guet obviously pre ghost sex.
Yes, I didn't need any of that either.
I didn't need them to bring him back, Like, if you're going to kill him, let it be.
He was such a beautiful, generous, loving man. I was like, this is how you should behave as a man.
Thank you.
And I always loved Izzy Denny. I just I died. I love them so much.
I love them so much too, and I really feel like gone too soon.
I know.
It was very sad, very sad that elvat.
Yeah, yeah, so I just want to say thank you really from the bottom of that, because I A preached it so much on this podcast.
The reaction in the room was phenomenal.
It was I think everyone was like it was extraordinary, like many other people feel the same way. So anyway, I just wanted to thank you for that.
Really validated her because we go back and forth. I'm like, that's I was not a fan.
Oh my gosh, I know it's tough, tough being next to her.
Henry was so really really good. Henry's so good.
I'm Henry discriminists.
Why do they have to die? I know the good ones gone to my kind hearted, like nice, good guy, good guys, caring, loving, sensitive.
My youngest sister's watching and she's like, I can't believe that you ever liked Derek Shepherd. He is the worst character I've ever seen on TV.
That was so funny.
WHOA what happened?
I remember? People got people are passionate.
She's watching it, so it's fun. That's fun.
That is very fun.
We'll have her on to talk about it. Right, I want to know your sign, but I want Tanya to try and guess your son.
Okay, okay, I'm getting Capricorn vibes. But it's not Capricorn, right, it's Taurus. It's not taurres is visit Capricorn cancer librah.
That's right, right, Yeah, you knew it.
Yeah, I knew it makes sense right now she knows all of them, and she'll be.
Like, do you guys know the end?
Yeah?
Yeah? I love the enneagram, are you? I'm I'm almost identically a three four. I'm a three four. So that's the three is the achiever, and then the four is the feeler, and I achieved through feeling.
It's just so yeah, it's you were nine right, yeah, but I do you think you've changed?
Maybe?
Oh well I'm one? Yeah, Justice, I thought it was perfectionist.
It is that too, but but part of perfectionism is also just like there's a right way, there's the wrong way.
Yeah yeah that's me.
Yeah, okay, before we go, okay, I want to know if they if you have a question, that you would be happy never being asked again?
Oh that's the good one.
How did it feel when they let you go from Gray's and Adams as that?
Okay?
Well the last time it's okay, and I because can I tell? I will tell you. Why is because I will inevitably say a string of words that then become the clickbait headlined that then don't tell the whole story, and then that feels super shitty. So I actually love talking about the incredible, expansive joy that I felt in the because so much of the engine that drives my life is holding pain and hope together at the same
time I'm holding it. I'm always I'm so aware of the darkness in the world and the light in the world, and the light that is there if you're looking for it, and so I'm kind of in pursuit of the light whenever there's pain or whatever. So I like to talk about that whole thing, and that experience is like the epitome of both of those things happening at the same
time to me. But I inevitably will say a string of words together that then become the quote that then everybody picks up, and it just ends up feeling like not not my heart and not my not who I am, you know, it just becomes like, Oh, she's bitter, and it's I'm not. Actually, that's not the.
Point better for me at all. In fact, I want I wanted a little more bitterness from you about it. Honest, I wanted a little more.
Yeah.
I don't think anybody who's ever interviewed me about this would ever have said that they got bitterness from me. No, but the headlines that are grabbed just show bitterness, right, So you know, I don't like that.
I've never gotten that from you and anything I've seen from you talking about it.
So just bitterness is such a waste of energy and doesn't It's not useful and I don't want to live in I would never want to live in that space. Yeah, it's not how I live my life.
Yeah.
No, I always see it as like, oh, we I moved into a new direction, and now look at this awesome stuff I get to do. Yeah, you know, that's that's how I live my life. Yeah, and I don't pretend that the pain didn't happen. It happened. But I also but it's like it created this new which is so beautiful. Yeah, I love that.
It's the first question.
I know, But it is.
I don't mean to make you feel bad in any way. Ready for it, and I you know, I'm used to it totally. And I also I think right in the wake of being let go I got so tired of everybody only wanting to talk about Grey's Anatomy. But now as I've engaged with more fans, I love being on Cameo by the way I've had the I just think it's the sweetest experience to get to meet people where they are at beautiful moments in their lives and to
hear how much April has meant to people. I know that April is ever green, Gray's Anatomy is ever green. April will always be a part of me and will always be a part of the audience's idea of who I am, and I'm proud of that. I love it. I actually I've gotten to a place where I'm like that time is precious, that season was precious to me and I and I feel like when I hear people's stories about how much a Roles stories broke their heart open or made them feel less alone, I go, yes,
that's that feels so affirming. It feels like me living into my purpose. Yeah, and I love it. I love it now. So I don't mind talking about.
Grazes though, because I feel like I do I understand that, not even just from Grey's Anatomy, but like I feel like there's several actors who have this role and like a huge dynamic show and then like people, they just get asked questions about that all the time and then they're like, no, but I'm promoting this, you know.
So it's like I do get that.
But at the same time, like as a fan, you you're so interested in intriguing, so you hold this like space for these people, these characters, and so it's like it's so it's like.
A and I love it. As someone was asking me actually that I'll I know, our time is up or whatever, but like someone was asking me after epicuns they were like, how do you how does that experience feel? Is it chaotic?
Is it overwhelming? Is it like an ego boost? And I my experience at those situations where I get to have this time, it is exhausting, of course, because you're trying to you know, people are waiting in line to see you, They've paid money to see you, and you want to make sure that you're giving them their money's worth and you're really focused on them and you're really giving yourself to them to some degree, so that it's draining, But hearing people's stories is so affirming. It makes It's
not an ego thing for me. It's really fully the sense of I set out from the earliest stages when I was in high school. I wanted to impact people's lives through storytelling and through acting. So whenever anybody tells me that a story has impacted them and a story I got to tell, that is me living into my purpose. And it's such a gift to hear it because we so many people in so many industries don't get to hear it the number of times we get to hear it, right, So it's sweet.
Yeah, I mean you know forever. I mean you are. You are so loved by the Raised fandom, and I think that people will love you in everything you do because you put that out there for people. It's like who you are.
Yeah, it is who you are.
So I hope you always feel that in everything you do.
And where can please come back for any project that you have in the future.
Our door is always.
Open to you.
I will, and you can ask me how I felt leaving Grace mad Me if you really need to again, I don't know.
I got, I've gotten all I need to know, and I'm so sorry that I asked them one question don't apologize.
I expect it every single place I go.
So if you have any that I didn't, we love you so much and everyone's stream or wait.
You could start it now and just and you're gonna you're gonna have some cliffhanger moments, but it's gonna be really fun. It'll it'll drop a new episode. There's six episodes, and a new episode drops every Thursday, and the first one just dropped on Halloween, so we have a new one episode two drops this Thursday.
Amazing. Where can they follow you?
The Sarah Drew on Instagram? I'm also on TikTok. I think I'm the Sarah Drew might be just Sarah Drew, M sure, and I think Twitter is or X. I'm never there, guys. I won't pay the money either. I won't pay the money, so I can't find the mentions and I don't know how to. I don't know how to interact with people anymore on that, but I am
amazing think Sarah Drew. Yeah, if you want to, if you want to, honestly, if you want to see mentions so that you can response, bond and repost, you, yeah, you have to pay like twelve bucks a month.
It's been a minute, thank you.
I haven't been there in a minute.
So yeah.
So mostly Instagram. That's that's my main place where you'll see and hear anything else going on.
Awesome.
We love you so much. I love you. Thank you.