You want to be an American idiot.
Flow me back on seven hunderd w O.
I'm so following a surge in dangerous street takeovers, and I'd say they're pretty dangerous mainly for the people participating, but nonetheless can't have that Cincinnati moving to an act strict or local stricter local penalties. We're talking like one to two thousand dollars and five six months vehicle impoundment. And this is on the heels of Ohio House Bill fifty six that has codified stunt driving as illegal racing
and makes it a felony to flee police. So on, this will be voting on this soon as a council member. Jeff Kramerton on the Scott Flonan Show, Jeff, welcome back, Hey Ben.
Good to be here.
Yeah.
So before I get into the street racing thing, which is the big sexy topic, the less sexy topic, of course,
the Cincinnati's income tax. Like after ha puer Vaal mayor pure Val kind of punted on the timeline he wanted to propose in the first two monster in a state of the city and on maybe three months with nothing and now he's saying this may not happen at all this year, and this would be the earnings tack we're taught tax we're talking about in this the Cincinnati and I think you said back in maybe earlier this month that there's a plan to unveil maybe a proposal the
mayor saying it's not going to happen. Are you guys on the same page, because you're the chair of budget and finance? So what a spring is?
Spring? Is this spring? Next spring? Three springs from now? What are we talking about?
Yeah? I am, I am. You know, no, I'd like to talk about tax increases, but there is in need. I think there's growing consensus that there is in need. There's never a good time to raise taxes or even talk about it, but the problem is getting worse and worse. So I have always been a strong advocate for going going,
taking this to the voters, letting them decide. You know, we we talked about doing this in twenty twenty, which was a presidential year, and there's the thought that all of the message will get drowned down the presidential year and the year after that, we were running councils, running the mayor's running, and we don't be talking about taxes who we're running and now this year there's concerns about the economy. So there's just never there's never a good time.
The budget gets worse and worse, the streams get worse on basic city services. So I still hope that we can take this to the voters, make the case, let them decide.
Well, the net profit tax and for businesses down something and they like, like by a third, the finance director said so in December. And if the economic foundation is that shaky, why is income tax the right move rather than deeper cuts?
Or is this is this what a death spire looks like?
Jeff, I mean, we've we've again this, This conversation is continued now for twenty years. In the Sea Cincinnati. Alternative is when the economy is booming, our earning stack is very high, and people say, you know, we don't we don't need it this year. So when and when is the right time the economy is shaky, our earning stack is down, that's putting you know, more stream on basic city services. So when you have this difficult conversation is the question, Yeah.
No one wants to have that. Of course, earnings tax, income tax, you know you're taking more out of my way, and still Cincinnati is low compared to all the other big size cities or medium sizes for that matter, in the state of Ohio. So we're still since I think I gets lost in the mix herees, we're still not taxing at the rate of other cities like Columbus, Cleveland, Toledo and others.
All of our pier cities in Ohio are two point five percent. We're at one point eight percent. To put that in real dollars, if the city was at two point five percent, which no one's suggesting that, but if we were, there'd be an extra two hundred million dollars
a year. So you understand that why there is a strain on basic city services when we're that far below, When our rate is that far below the cities, we could have a very modest increase still be far below any other highest cities and be able to provide more basic city services, which we know people want.
Futures Commission, I believe the reports at point one five percent, which is like, as you said, a modest increase, would that bridge the gap?
Yeah, I mean that's about the number we're talking about. Is a point one five is it point two those are numbers that have been discussed. If you're going to raise taxes, you're going to be able to pay for the things you promise you don't want to be race taxes and not having fixed the problem. So that's where the conversation has been around those in the amounts of the discuss All.
Right, Jeff cramerding this ties into quality of life issues. You know you did a residence survey, not too happy about potholes and other issues. We see this street takeover thing happened time to time. Of course, we saw what happened on opening day. Not a street take over unless you make it a human street takeover with gunshots being fired. But back in on New Year's Eve, I think last year you had traffic stop downtown with the banks for
street race. We had thirty nine people arrested, sixty five cars and pounded at Woodward earlier last month. And so people see that and it's just another reason to go, oh, I'm not going to downtown Cincinnati or make creating business down there, or maybe I want to move out. Those are real concerns for people, not saying it's happening in big numbers, but it's.
A quality of life issue.
So the woodward thing that's already illegal under existing law, what would this ordinance do that's being proposed incurring by the way, in Ohio Bill fifty six, that isn't already allowed.
What what else do they make illegal about this?
Well, we're gonna be discussing a lot of options. I mean, the one that I think is most interesting is in pounding cars for up to six months, So you know, you're taking the vehicle that was you know, part of this crime, they're pounding it for six months. During the last street takeover, fifty three cars were towed. You know, we did get some towing t's, but you know, extending
that to six months be much more of a deterrent. Obviously, cars are the focus of this to there's a lot of conversation around that this morning in council.
Okay, so you keep the car for six months. What if it's you know, my kid borrowed the car and they're they're sitting there watching the street, right, so they weren't participating, or maybe they took off because they got scared. I got to get to work the next morning.
But then, yeah, I know, I mean, this is this is a very serious crime. So I mean, you have to be responsible for your vehicle. Somebody's taking your car to you to to commit a crime of this magnitude, I think you have to be held responsible. I mean, this is you know, this is dangerous. We know what these street takeovers. A lot of people are coming from outside the city of Cincinnati, which raises a lot of issues.
And you know, I think people are frustrated. To me, this is breaking the wall for the for the sake of breaking the lall. I mean me, I don't think going donuts is that fun. I think people are just intentionally violating the wall just to get a high up for that, and that's very frustrating. And says something about the site.
Well hold on, it is all those stops.
I'm gonna interrupt you there at Jeff Grammonting, did you just say doing donuts isn't fun.
For me a little bit while at sixteen, but I've sorted out grown it. I would hope, hope most of them.
Yeah, Jeff, donuts are just all fun. I just it just depends where you're doing the donuts. Fair enough, Okay, donuts our hell a lot of fun. But yeah, you should be setting intersections down to do it, No, of course not. I know you're proposing the six month vehicle empowerment. This is kind of based on Louisville and the last month. The person who is proposing this down there in the Commonwealth is Beverly Chester Burton. She was on my show a little while ago and she's proposed us before.
This time around.
You're talking thirty days in jail for the first one second one they take your car and they're gonna crush it or maybe even resell it. Now that concerns me when it comes to civil asset forfeiture because we've seen this with money, people carrying cash and going almost be drug money even though they can't prove it.
They keep the money anyway.
Same with the cars, police and well, in this case, places like CPD that need the money. If they can resell the car, that's incentive for them to seize your car, and they drop that threshold because it's about money. I got a problem with that as a libertarian, going I don't know if the government should be taking your assets or something like this, you know, maybe season it for six months or holding on to it, say we're gonna park it here.
I guess that makes.
Sense, but now you've incentivize them taking your stuff that I dis agree with.
This morning when we're I mean, we're gonna look at what Louis has done. We're talking about the impowments. We of course want to deter this, make sure this crime does not happen, make sure these criminals do not come to Cincinnati, SETI and balancing that with the constitutional requirements to make sure that we can port with the law. So it's gonna be a conversation. You know, I've talked to my colleague. This is what's on the table. There has been some discussion, you know, this is this really
gonna turre? Is this serious enough? Talking about our partners, the judges of the county. So finding the right balance to what will stop this but still not be over the top and violate the constitution.
All right, So you seize the car for six months to hold on to it. I think that sends a pretty strong message myself, as it's not gonna be tolerated. You get your property back in six months, and I guess you're gonna have to hoof it wherever you're going. Now, there's some as I mentioned, you know, if it's a kid borrowing a parent's car. And is that for a first defense Jeff Or this would be from right from the jump.
Yeah, I think, I mean, I mean right now, it's a rosen motion. It's right from the jump. Of course, of people can always provide mitigating circumstances as part of the criminal process, but it's you know, you know, if you're of course, if you go to court and you're found not guilty, because you know your your your vehicle could get released. Uh So there's got to be safety mechanisms built in, and that'll be part of the conversation.
Are these people are actively engaged in doing the donuts in the street takeover? What about people are sitting there, maybe videoing it or just sitting on their car because they're blocked at an intersection. Is this everybody who was caught in that intersection, just the participants that are caught on video.
This notion just applies to the participants. Spectating is already h a crime according to Ohio state law. So if you're spectating, you're watching these criminal acts there, you know it is a misdemeanor. It's a minor crime, but that is a crime right now, Okay.
That way, it seems a little but wiggle room there' say, hey, look, you know what I got blocked in?
What am I going to do?
I got my phone out, started recording. I guess I'm a participant, but I didn't know this was happening. I suppose there's some wiggle room there, But how often have they caught the participants in.
These The Sincinnati Police Department did a excellent job with the last street takeover where there was I think forty arrests and fifty five vehicles impounded. So it was just a tremendous job. I mean, I you know, with people driving through the streets in this reckless manner, I mean it's I can't imagine how difficult it is to you know, block those cars and arrest them, get the drivers out all a safe manner without a dangeroum office from the pullbox?
Who you get that many cars with a testament to the Cincinnati Police.
Department, Yeah, you had thirty nine people arrested in sixty five cars I believe impounded. And what happened at Woodward the last month and I saw that went wow, that that sends a really strong message. Also concerned with those who are out of town, how do you separate that do you know? I mean, technically, what's out of ten on somebody from I don't know, kid from Westchester or Loveland or I don't know, Hyde Park or something else.
You know, how do you how do you determine what's the city of Cincinnati?
Well, I think, well, I mean, yeah, the last time we have people from as far as way is at least we have cars from as far away as New York and Texas. Which is why the empowerment part of this motion is important because at least some of the offenders last time had a relatively small bond of thousand dollars. So if you're from out of state, are just going to come and you know, pay your bond money, get your car and be off the road and never come back.
I think that's the possibility. So that's the reason the empowerment part of this is important.
Uh, these things target and these are all organized on social media. Obviously with the NOKA location is going to be announced at the last minute. Does this legislation, Jeff kramerding, include any tools that target organizers or promoters or just address the participants. What about those people who may have organized and then may be the same person we don't know, but if you put this up on your social feed and we find out who you are, could you wind up getting in trouble for organizing?
Yeah, that goes into constitutional issues. Obviously there's First Amendment issues, But are you organizing a criminal act? I think that's part of the question. So the motion talks about the empowerment. The motion also talks about anything else from a policy perspective that city Council can do. So we're talking about
that with our law department. Of course, we want to hear from the police who were there again, who did a great job, to see what they're seeing, what they're hearing, and what can be done to prevent this and make sure it doesn't happen again, all right?
Council Member jeffkramitting on the show on seven hundred wwfellow A member Mark Jefferies, who's on the show often proposing an ordinance aimed at specifically discouraging out of town participants by having these peneties for street takeovers, talking vehicle impoundment for the first defense up to six months, saying that you know this has worked in Louisville, and that's even more extreme. They talking about actually destroying your car and level,
so don't do it there. Spectators are targeted. And we have House Bill fifty six that's being enhanced stunt driving definition there says stunt driving which is donuts, burnout, drifting, wheelies, racing, that whole thing. It's illegal felony fleeing now it's now fell into wil felony of wilful aid police if you're participating in a street takeover, and accountability for participants all in there as well, and you could see how Cincinnati's
builds off of the existing Ohio law. Finally, Jef Kramer doing thirty nine people arrested back last month in the street takeover roundup.
What happened to their cases? What are the judges order? What were the decisions?
Yeah, I mean some of the bonds were very low from my opinion, especially with the nature of the crime and the transient nature. I mean, these people were out of town. So you know, I think we're talking about how to deter this and do more penalties on the place as part of it, and certainly tracking all these crimes and developing a better partnership with our with our
county judges. Important. We've talked a lot and then productive conversations about data when it comes to any crime, what is working, what is an effective deterrent, and how the city can we do that. When we had the problems over the last summer, the city actually put up money with it with our judges said, you know, you know we need data and we help you pay for get
systems someplace so we get better data. So I think that there is a need there across the board, and it's something we continue to work on and need to work on.
Are the judges hands tied? Is that the problem?
You can only punish these folks so much, and does this legislation give it more teeth than you know? Taking our car away of us is a big one. But I guess what I'm saying is we know, Jeff, that the laws out there where our judges are not tough on recidivism, which means repeat criminals, especially the violent felony types.
It just they'll released down their own recognizance and by the time they cross the threshold from from the court to the street, they're committing crimes all over again, and judges are just too damn lax.
Is that part of the problem or this?
I think that the problem is if you look at it in isolation, the penalty might not match the crime. I mean, we were joking about donuts, and if you say, oh, a person was in doing donuts at three o'clock in the school park, you know, you're, okay, that's not that's not the worst crime. But then if you look at this in totality, what's going on in one hundred people driving recklessly down the highway sit unwull blacked in an organized manner, that becomes a much more serious. That's the
reason that we need to increase the penalty. That three from these takeovers are so dangerous.
Yeah, but are we going to have judges to go, well, you know what, I think it's punishing these poor young victims even though they're engaged in crime here and I'm just not We're not going to seize their car. We're just going to let them out. I mean, you can make all the laws you want, the judges aren't doing their part. It's pretty worthless, isn't it.
Yeah.
No, I think that I think that we do from the city's perspective, we do need data, We do need tracking. That data should be available with public and me available to the citizens. And if there's a problem, and a judge is not meeting community expectations, they should be voted out. And I think that that data and that tracking is part of that.
All right, he is a council member, Jeff cramerting on the Scott's Loan. She'll be voting on this street tagover issue. And hopefully that's all the information you need to Maybe not, because I know a lot of my listeners are out there doing the street takeovers. I got to be honest with you. I disagree with a lot of my listeners are street tag over people. I'm sure. Hey, Jeff all the best man. Thanks for jumping on the shows. Mary, I appreciate you always.
Pleasure.
Take care. There you go.
We got a news update coming in a just minutes here on the Big one seven hundred WLW, and we'll follow what's happening, of course in Iran right now. And the countdown is out, the countdown because the doomsday clock is running here. If you believe for his word what Trump said at eight o'clock tonight, the big boom goes off and we wipe the whole country out. We'll see what that looks like. If indeed that's what happens. We
don't know what point. The only thing I'm concerned about it first of all, judges not doing what they're supposed to do. The second thing, of course, is civilized at forfeitsure, which I have a problem with because we've seen jurisdictions that have been given the tools going, hey, we got to stop the flow of drugs. Okay, well see you can seize money now. Great, So now they're just seizing people's money even though they can't prove its side to drugs,
and they just get to keep it. And that happens at CBG, it happens all over the place. I just hope that this doesn't become that as the city looks for new revenue. Maybe now we'll take your car and sell it. That could be coming next, although with this version of it that's not the case for sure. So it's just a left by eye sloany here. This is seven hundred WL