Do you want to be an American?
Scott some show on seven hundred ww welcome, we have a new high.
The average cost or a new vehicle off the lot, drive it off the lot is now over fifty thousand dollars. Let that percolate for a minute in your head. New cars have never cost more, the loans to buy them have never been bigger or longer, and Americans are about their breaking point right now. On This is the senior editor of Auto Trader and Kelly Bluebook, Brian Moody.
Welcome, good morning, Thank you. Yeah, you're right.
Things are expensive, but I'm going to tell you this right now, there are ways around it.
It's not quite as dire.
As many people who are strapped for cash would think.
Yeah, well, Americans, that comes to numbers. I'm not a numbers guy, but you know we have those milestones. Now, you hit a certain number, and you know, forty nine thousand not on other care for you. But once you hit fifty the trigger goes off.
Right.
It's like it's like the price of gasoline. It gets three dollars a galon three point fifty four dollars. Those are milestone numbers. Fifty thousand is a hell of a lot for this transaction. Go wait a minute. You know I bought a car I don't know, five seven years ago and it was thirty thousand dollars. How the hell does it go up that much in just such a short period of time.
Well, there's many things contributing to the high price of new cars today. One of them we have to just say at some point tariffs is going to be part of that, although maybe not as much as people would think. It's more like people are opting for more expensive cars, more people are opting for luxury brands when they buy new cars than ever before. And also the cost of electric cars has driven the averages up. In addition to that, the cost of regulation on the average car is significant.
Whenever you hear more things required, more MPG required, more safety equipment required. That all requires compliance and come clients means people and cost money.
We're also driving four wheeled computers too, that has to be factored in.
Yeah.
Yes, not only does it have to be part of the car, like what's inside the car, but think of this, there has to be a repair and service mechanism behind that for many years, which includes training and includes parts, and it includes repair parts.
So yeah, all that is part of it.
I still say that, like, if you're looking for a new car right now and you see that number and you think, oh, that's just too much. There are many good cars, new cars with compelling features for under thirty thousand dollars.
So what's driving it up?
I mean, you know, just in my worldview, as I drive Brian, I look at the vehicles of the road, people are thinking, well, what's driving the average up? Is that the luxury brands. You got a Ranger over Mercedes, a BMW and Audi a luxA is okay? But I see more pickup trucks on the road than ever before, and pricing out a pickup truck down right, Ik at some of the big ones out there, You're talking seventy
five thousand dollars. In my view, it's people are buying very expensive trucks and SUVs, ucons and things like that.
They are, and part of that is the manufacturers trying to increase their margin, but part of it is also consumer demand. One thing that you'll see is increasingly expensive with better.
Equipment trim levels of existing cars.
So it used to be we had like maybe four versions the base model, which is an S, the L, the XL, and then the top one would be like, oh, it's a limited or something like that.
Well, now there's three above the limited because.
You have to have the big twenty two inch chrome wheels and you have to have the hand stitched leather and all that. That's profit for the automakers, but at the same time, consumers are actually saying that's what they want. That's why you see those long loans. You mentioned thousand dollars a month's payment. Listen, if you have to stretch your car payment to eighty four months, that is a good sign that you have purchased or are looking at
a car that's out of your budget. You need to like rain that back in and get something like a Corolla.
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
I mean even you know, like a Jeep Wrangler Base models you can get fright in for a round thirty, but most people don't. They opt for the off road packages even though they would never.
Take it off a highway. Yeah, they're still going to get that and that's over fifty k.
Yeah, and automakers have begun to realize this. I think what you're going to see is pulling back on some of that Jeep is a perfect example for they have admitted, hey, we kind of priced our core customers out of the market. So look for companies like Jeep, Ford, and Chevrolet, maybe.
Honda and Tolida as well to come up with.
Less equipment and a lower priced car because their cars that people know are good. And to your point, it's why the Ford Maverick, a small pickup, sold so well when it first came out because at the time there wasn't much else available for a pickup truck buyer. Now, as new option become available, I think more people will see the wisdom of getting a smaller pickup or a smaller suv and maybe not every single bell and whistle, maybe you stop midway.
Brian Moody is a senior editor of Auto Trader and Kelly Bluebook. As we hit a new high here this year, the average cost of a car off the lot is now fifty thousand dollars plus. In addition to that, we have the new eighty four month car loans that account for something like one in ten of all sales. That's nearly a seven year car payment. Is that kind of a warning sign? Numbly for the economy, but the industry.
That's a warning signs for the industry and for consumers. And let me just tell you this. If you're looking at a car loan and the length of the car loans outlasts the warranty, that's a big red flag because what you're headed for unless you happen to have, you know, one of the few very very reliable brands, like say you wanted a luxury brand, a European luxury brand, and your warranty expires and you're making one thousand dollars a
month payment. What happens when you're in for an expensive repair that now is to you out of your pocket.
That's going to be disastrous for many shoppers.
I find.
The experts say, the financial guys say keep your payment about fifteen percent a monthly income, but the average is in the upwards of twenty percent or more.
That's pretty upside.
Down right right, because people look at those loans and they say, oh, well, I technically I can do it.
Right. You can have cake and ice cream.
For dinner every night if you want, but there's a cost to pay down the road.
And don't shop by this is what I always tell people. Don't shop only by monthly payment. I could sell you a Ferrari for five hundred dollars a month. Well, you should ask a couple of questions once I say that, how many months, how much downpayment?
You know, on and on and on.
So it's possible to get that super cool a luxury car, but I would just rent it back a few steps and say, hey, maybe something like a Mazda c X five could work for me instead of a full size truck based luxury suv.
Yeah.
But we've even seen the aftermarket cars Kelly, you know Kelly Bluebook for example. That's what you guys specialize in. That the costs are going a used car now is incredible.
Yeah, you know, there's a really good resource that people are shopping right now. You can go to Capital One has an auto navigator channel that's very helpful. Also, car Gurus list the price increases and price decreases by percentage right there on a page for you to shop that way. And remember this, if you're looking for a new car and you want a certain piece of technology, go look at a used car and see if maybe a three year old version of that car doesn't have the same exact technology.
Chances are it might.
Yeah, how much of this, Brian Moody, has to do with the tariffs. How much is that driving up the cast because the other people we live in a solarized political society. People just want to point the finger and go, this is all Trump's fault. How much of it is?
Yeah, it's some because what's happening is the cars that are incurring the lowest tariff are the ones that are built here in the US and they source parts here in the US.
And they have a bit of a discount as a result.
Methanax lowered the price on some of their cars because they were built in the US. Other manufacturers where the car arrived fully complete to our shores, this would usually
be very high end European luxury brands. Those are the ones that are going to incur the highest trat However, what manufacturers are doing is they're taking that three thousand dollars tariff, let's just say, and they spread it out across multiple cars so that the sticker shop to the average person is less, but you're still paying overall in terms of higher destination, to the higher interest, all those types of things.
Yeah, Brian Moody, here, the senior editor Auto Trader, Kelly Bluebook on the show. The average price of a car now over fifty thousand dollars off the lot. Last year we were in Australia and over there it's incredible the number of Uber drivers and Lyft drivers that opt right, all of them Chinese made EV's and I got you get in someone go wow, this is interesting Tesla or and they look at it, go, I don't know what brand this is.
It must be Chinese.
Yeah.
And there was a story I forgot where I saw this, but it was a ceo from one of the big three companies. They were in China and we're touring the car factories there and they ceo said they were blown away on how the robots, the automation, they churn out cars insanely fast.
Over there.
Their supply chain is so modern and so efficient. It manufactures good quality cars and innovative new models at much much lower prices.
So the competition.
Between Chinese made and now now Canada's relaxed the tariffs sun Chine, so we're going to see more and more Chinese made EV's flooding North America, and eventually those cars will come down to Canada.
From Canada, the United States won't.
They Yes, probably American automakers and lawmakers are going to have to get a handle on that. The executive you're talking about is the guy from Ford, and you know not with the den. They have a new evy platform called you ev which is supposed to be able to house several different body styles, but is going to be an electric car that starts around thirty thousand dollars.
So yeah, those things are coming.
But the reason I say lawmakers have to get involved is because not every place in the world has the same environmental laws we have, or the same labor laws or labor unions, or the same sourcing like so there's lots of things that we have to get on top of as an industry to see like, hey, do we.
Want that here or not?
Same with safety standards, cars cost more because there's more safety equipment. So sure, could you sell a car that doesn't have the same crash worthiness for a lower price, probably, But do we want that? Those are things that have to be decided and it's not going to be decided probably by me and you.
Right.
My takeaway on that was you have the CEO of Ford whose jaw drops by age a state of the art, well functioning factor. I mean, isn't it sobering and scary at the same time that how did we get to the point where we have a CEO of a major auto manufacturer, one of the big three, go to our a Chinese factory and have your jaw drop because they've got robots building cars at a much cheaper I mean that that just defies logic and explanation. It also should
scare the hell out of us here in America. Is you know, is it over for us?
Well?
I don't think so, because remember the road American factories have playing your robots too.
That's kind of a fixed cost. The thing that's not a fixed cost is.
The labor I'm saying. So that's one thing that he wasn't mentioning. So it should be a wake up call for how do we run our factories, How do we run our unions?
How do we source parts?
Do we use the most of our locally sourced natural.
Resources as we can?
Or are those sitting idle because someone somewhere else said, oh that's no good, let's get it someplace elf. Those things all have to line up so that we can get the best car for the.
Best price and still provide a livable wage.
My old man was working in the automotive sector for a while back in the seventies and eighties, and American car manufacturers looked at as an entitlement. Going doesn't matter if we put a car together with a bumper that's crooked or the doors that fall off at rust's in three years. We don't care because you've got a lock
on the world. Because this came out of the nineteen fifties when the post World War Two, when America had to build everything, rebuild a world because it was war torn or a third world.
And now that's change.
We saw that turn in the eighties when Japanese car manufacturers came on the scene.
They changed the game.
Entirely with fit and quality, quality assurance warranties, and it totally up into the American market. Are we at a similar point here now with China?
Yeah?
Probably, because I don't know if you remember this or not, but there was a for a while, there was kind of a thing with Japanese cars where they were considered low quality. It's hard to believe that that was a thing, but that was a thing at one point. The big thing that's happening today and everyone's to have to adapt to this is that those things are happening just like they happened in the past, only now they're happening much
much faster. So yes, it's quite possible that a Chinese car in the near future will have all the features for a price, all the quality that we would expect, faster than we would have thought in the past.
The entry level car back to this topic too, because you say, again it's fifty thousand the average, but you can get a car for round thirty. It's going to be a base model, but that's disappeared for American showrooms. We see the Chinese kind of it's the second Japanese
wave here where they're upending the auto industry worldwide. Now we're going to have to change things and how we do things here in America to compete with them, because you know, if you're going to go back to the days where a Japanese import people to come up and hit it with a sledgehammer, remember those protests like you're not going to change and he saw it didn't work. Because Japanese automakers stowing out is still number one. You're
going to probably do that with Chinese vehicles. And you know, you can yell and scream at the clouds all you want, but you've got to adapt or die. And we should know that as Americans. But yeah, the entry level cars kind of disappeared from showrooms. How do we even get to this point?
I think that's going to change. So there's two levers that are that can be pulled simultaneously. There's what the manufacturer offers, So that's the S model, the base the one that's thirty four to five that doesn't have, you know, some of the fancy stuff inside. The manufacturer offers that, but if the dealer doesn't stock it, it essentially doesn't exist. So the dealers have to be okay with knowing, Hey, if I order five of these base models with cloth seats or whatever it is, will I be able to
sell them? And I think once we see that there's a market for those base model cars, they'll start to come back, even to the point where automakers will start to build more of them. But remember they're in the supply and demand game. If there's no demand, they're not going to make a supply just for fun. So it's up to dealers and consumers to write size their expectations.
And the loans are part of it too.
I don't know why someone would get a seventy two month or eighty four month loan. I think it's financially irresponsible. But for some reason, cars are more of an emotional purchase than say a refrigerator.
Or a Parish Well shoes.
People do the same thing, but it's more of an emotional purchase, so people have to get okay with Yeah, this happens to me a lot. People ask how do I get a great deal? Well, you get a hatchback, or you get a sedan they have, you know, lower prices on the whole, and you get this kind of a car, you get a hybrid, And the next thing they say is, oh, yeah, I was thinking to get it.
Than d Nali.
No, there's no deals on those because that's what everybody wants. So what everybody wants less deals, what fewer people are getting nice to dan good hatchbacks often more of a chance for a deal on those.
Yeah makes sense, And but again, you know, you go to a showroom Brian, people are like, well, I want cloths, seats, I don't want to I don't a manual, and I want air conditioning. I want a sound system that sounds really good. Rreat, but you're going to spend an extra ten grand plus because those are all add ons.
Because they're in packages. So here's something to just kind of adjust your mind to the average shopper today. If you go by a new car and you're looking at there's a base model. Let's say that you saw online and you did research and saw that was the right price for you. Today's car is always going to have air conditioning, power windows, probably a screen of some kind. What the little things are going to be and figure out how you can live without. This would be bigger wheels, sunroof,
a larger touch screen. Those are the things that are going to be optional today. All they're all going to have automatic transmissions, they're all going to have air conditioning, they're all going to have power windows. It's a matter of oh, do I get the seats that have memory power? Do I get the one touch that It's down to that little thing. So if you can live without some of those things, the base model could work for you
on many cars. Prius is a great example of a good car that isn't super expensive and gets great gas mileage.
We're not going to go back to a point where you know, you can get a model T where it's the same vehicle and you can have any color you want as long as it's black. We're not headed back that way, are we.
There may be an automaker that would come up with an idea to have like what I lovingly called the Luddye Special, where it doesn't have any features or any of that kind of stuff. I could see that may be working, But as far as it being a mainstream.
Automaker, you have to think of it this way. Today, in order to give a.
Car manual windows or manual.
Transmission or whatever, it almost costs them more because deviations from the production line cost time, and time equals money. So that's why every car has almost the same equipment. Now it's down to what color, what wheels, what sum room.
Yeah, you're always going to have You're always going to have automatic when it's probably air conditioning, things like that. Brian Moone, Senior Editor, Auto Trader. In Kelly Bluebook, the average cost of a new car has now crossed the fifty thousand dollar mark, and that is an eye opener for sure. Thanks for jumping on this morning. I appreciate it. Yep, yeah, thank you, take care. Fifty grand. Let's talk about it.
How much do you got in your car? You've bought in a car in the last couple of years, or maybe you know you have a car that's seven eight years old and you're like, ah, I'm gonna go and look at a new one, and then you maybe you get to say, I like the car, just wanted a newer model. How much sticker shock hit you here locally five and three, seven four nine, seven thousand eight or the big one talk back via the iHeartRadio Apple get into that right after news update Scott's Loan Show on
seven hundred WW. It's PLNY seven hundred WLW talking to
Brian Moody minutes ago. Here executive director Kelly Bluebook and autotrader dot com the average price of a car now off the lot, not the MSRP, but actually driving off the lot now over fifty thousand dollars fifty grand for new car, which begs a question here maybe we're shopping and went, wait how much because just I mean, the price have gone up like forty in the last handful of years, which is absolutely bonkers, right, just just absolutely crazy, And you know if you out shopping and you had
that sticker shock going, do you just pull the trigger and go, oh, I need it because it's a business car where maybe money is somewhat of an object but no object in that regard. Or he's just like, hey, you know what, I'll get a few more miles out of the beater that I have now and move on. Danny just emailed me here Sloany at seven hundred ww dot com. My wife and I watched the movie Risky Business the other night. At a chuckle on, Tom Cruise
was out in his dad's portion. Someone sneers him and goes, oh, daddy's out in the forty thousand dollars car forty gray was a lot of money back in the day, man, a lot of money. What are the most expensive cars in the world? That In just a second, and Bob and is on the show this morning, Bob, how you doing all great?
Uh uh, that's ann it's kind of cold out there, Yeah it is.
It'll warm up then get cold and snow again. So yeah, we've got the whips up. Tell me about card you go buy a car?
Yeah, I'd say about a car for the wife. A couple of years ago, and then my own last year. On the bright side, if you don't need all the bells and whistles and computer assists, which older folks don't understand anyway. Yeah, uh, I got buy for thirty. I thought I worked pretty good deal, and at last minute they sticking it old. There is a five hundred dollars documentation fee. Sure, but then I've been beating down over two or three hour period, which that's that's the game.
I said, okay, whatever, yes, actually what twenty bucks a month? So I'm not going to screw the deal in that. But uh, you know, if you if your fortune, have to work a good deal where you know they're going to make the marginal profit. They don't pay their bills by giving stuff away, correct, They like to stick a little something andy here, these are five hundred bucks. Yeah, the boss boss's kid wants ago a summer.
Here, ture transfer.
That's like transportation, and that's just like when you get tires right now, they charge you for shriding the tires.
Now it's disposal.
Oh yeah, yeah, at the disposal for you gets to the Uh. On the couple of years back, a nice car from one of your advertisers for the wife and that was over fifty then. But on the bright side, they called a couple years later and said, hey, you bought a car for of us sudden such I said, we'll buy it back for what you paid. But we've been using it yet, we know that.
That's pretty good. I mean, you think about that. You buy the car, and if they're going to give you what you paid for it, that's a hol of a deal.
Accept And if you want something similar, you know you're gonna have.
To give them a little bit.
But uh yeah, oh yeah, uh the used cars were in such demand back then. Uh price for skyhig I think nowadays two you see prices like a very non descript ten year old car.
That's what really catched my eye.
East fifteen and twenty hous about.
Oh that's no question my daughter's looking for one. It's like, how much wow that is because you know, you get a car for a kid or something like that, it's like, you know, five six grand and now you know it's going to be closer to to ten thousand dollars thanks to the call appreciated five one, three, seven, four nine seven thousand new price of a comprice of my new car off the lot all in not MSRP fifty thousand dollars. This might make you feel better. The five most expensive
cars right now in the world. So this is the This is okay, this is like oil money. This is chic money, this is this is ai this is crypto money. A Rolls Royce LeRose Noir droptail. Now keep in mind there's only four built. There's only four, and each is a one to one commission. It has over sixteen hundred hand placed wood pieces and a color shifting finish.
How much how much?
Thirty two million dollars for one car? Number two is a Rolls Royce boat tail that's twenty eight million, though they built three of those. It has a rear deck that unfolds to look like a luxury yacht, cocktail tables, and a champagne refrigerator. You know you got some serious fu money when you could buy a car that has a champagne refrigerator and a cocktail you're drink into the I've got a bar in the back of my car.
How's that?
Pegani Zonda HB Barchetta is seventeen and a half million dollars to built three of those. A Bugatti sixteen million dollars. And the fifth is a Rolls Royce Sweptail which is thirteen million dollars, and that was part of a two seat Grand Tour that took four years. Took four years to handle this car for only thirteen million dollars, which seems like a bargain when the number one is thirty
two million dollars. If you're more like me, your top five least expensive new cars in twenty twenty six, again from Brian Moody our friends at Auto Trader. Number five I was a Hondai Elantra, which is just a tick under twenty four thousand. Nissan CenTra s will layout twenty three eight forty five, the Kia K four LX is twenty three to five, Chevy Tracks twenty three five as the eight inch wireless touchscreen, thirty miles per gallon combinement.
That's a that's a good work car, right, get a Chevy twenty three grand considering that's half the price of a of the MSRP or I'm sorry of the offul lot price of the average car.
You're getting a good deal there.
And number one is a Hyundai Venue two of the five two of the five Yas Hondai, Nissan, Kiya Chevy and the Venue s E. The number one is twenty two to one fifty and that is now the cheapest car after the Nissan Versas discontinued. It's a subcompact crossover and a lot of standard safety tech. Very safe car in a Hyundai, at least for twenty twenty six anyway. So twenty two to one fifty would be your number
versus thirty two million dollars. I could have put the luxury you know, Mercedes, BMW, Audie, Lexus those cars in there as well, but it's more fun to go, Well, it's fifty thousand dollars for a new car off the lot, but you're talking tens of millions of dollars for new veic. It just makes me wonders, like, what kind of money you what kind of crazy indus?
What do you in? What do you got going on in your life? Crypto you have like oil rigs.
That's that's an insane amount and then people can afford that car also look at it go yeah, I mean it's it's a nice treat that tend to be humbled about that because the other idage is like you're driving, you're rolling around in a luxury car, you know, a nice Ranger over saw, a Porsche whatever it is. And then it's like, I've got the you know, I got a really hot car here. This is a great car,
very expensive. You know, I valet park even when I go to UDF and there's always somebody out there go, well, yeah, that's a nice car. What's your I got a thirty two million dollar car? Yeah, this is such a nice car. You probably I don't even know if you drive it. When you even at thirty two million, you had the kind of money be scared to take it out of the garage. And you know, some folks buy cars and
just store them, they don't really take them out. And I guess look at more of an investment down a lot. I suppose at thirty two million, I have to figure that can I take out a five thousand year loan? Because even then I don't know if I've did five thousand, five thousand year loan.
I think maybe I might be able to afford that. Not sure what bank would give me a four.
Thousand, four thousand alone A guy who's that kind of money, or at least he did anyway, less Westerner, you know, the name, of course, Victoria's secret founder.
I think it's there. I'm gonna die in this hill. That okay.
The third rail, of course, is the insanity over Epstein's island. The fact that here in the United States anyone, no one is paying the price, no one is going to jail for this.
It's a horrible story.
Right.
You can't certainly take the side of someone who is doing this to young women or men, as the case may be. It's not about the vic and it's not about the crime. It's it's about I think propriety, and I again, dying the hill is a tough stand to take. So Les Wexner in Ohio State, they're debating and removing his name from all these buildings because of his associates
with Epstein, and that makes him unacceptable. And they took i think in neighborhood a two hundred million dollars in money from less wex So he's got his name all everything. If if you take two hundred million dollars from someone and that turns out that they're scumbag degenerate criminal or they're financing scumbag degenerate criminals, then you've got to give him the money.
Back.
If the name isn't good enough to stay in the building, then the Ohistein University needs to write a check back to him and going, okay, you're out because it's interesting you they're debating and removing his name because that Epstein association, and they're making a moral judgment here because of the heat from the students and everyone else, going, you can't do it's less why it's toxic.
You can't.
It's poison money is what it is. This is blood money. And they're right, but okay, that's a moral judgment. And you can't simultaneously cash a check from someone you've declared mortally unfit it. Life doesn't work that way. There was a transaction here. You took his money and he wants his name on a building donors. I don't care what school you go to, Ohio State, UC Xavior or whatever. The buildings are named after people who can afford a
thirty two million dollar car. But you know, if the relationship is now toxic enough to erase his name, then you have to return the money under that relationship. Will Ohio State kick back two hundred million to Les Wexner if you start taking names off buildings because most of those deals come with an agreement. So if OSU, for whatever reason breaks the naming terms, his estate or family
would have legitimate legal grounds to demand repayment. Anyway, This could be a could be a case in court, and it's hard to take the side of a guy who's financing Jeffrey Epstein. But I don't know. We've seen this happen in other area. Says like, Okay, well we're going to honor this person by putting their name on a building. Well do you honor someone who then later winds up being tabed of criminal?
And O. J. Simpson would be a great example of this. You know it.
Should his buss be in the in Canton? Should his name be in the ring of honor at the bill Stadium? It's like, yeah, okay, but he wasn't he was Civilly he lost, but criminally he was.
Same thing might be happening. This could be a whole O. J. Simpson thing all over again.
So you have an agreement for the naming rights and then you would have legal grounds I would guess to demand repayment unless there's something in that clause in the contract says for you under moral turpitude or or more moral. Uh, you know there's something in there moral turpitude clause. I guess it would be that would wipe that out. And it's like, well, we're going to keep your money and take your name off the building. And also it's America
and he has not been convicted of anything. And I point that out, not taking his sight on this rather, but just the way the law works, and sometimes we can forget how the constitution works in this country. Hasn't been arrested, hasn't been indicted, and now we're going to take his name off and keep the money without due process and your profiting from that man. Ohio State's really
setting themselves up. And then if they don't do anything, if they just well we're going to keep his name on it, the outcrying backlash against Ohio State is going to be, if not already, it's going to be incredible. How the hell do you paint? How do you this is a hell of a corner they painted themselves in. And I don't think it's anything because they were stupid about it's just who saw this coming? That less not western to be tight And we're in a state now.
I pointed this out the other day you know that it's called the Life Touch, and that is the group when your kid goes to school and gets the school picture in the spring or in the fall. Rather, that's the company that does a life touch. So and I've kind I forget the seven degrees of separation here, but they have since been twice. So they started out this company, the guy who initially started it has ties to Epstein. Well,
he had before this whole thing broke. He had sold it to a company that then spun it off into a bigger group and like private equity. And now parents in the states, including Kentucky, are demanding that Life Touch be taken on their kids' school and the person who is tied to Epstein is twice removed from ownership, but the company's already been sold. It's kind of like police knock on your door because a car you owned two
owners ago was involved in a homicide. Yeah, you ran a bunch of people over and now.
They're going to come.
Well wait, I sold that car to somebody who then sold it to somebody else. We don't care, We're still coming after. You can start looking at that going. I know, we live in an age where constitutional law in the law itself is kind of like, I don't know how, it's a murky area. But with them in a time were well, that's well, I can do what I want to do.
Now.
Really, I think there's just and especially from an institution of higher learning, it should be pretty clear cut that you've got to give them money back. If the standard for name removal is mere association with the criminal, then you've got to look at every donor in your history. I mean, how many people, how many donors have given money to Ohio State and maybe got I know, even
something as lowly as a name on a brick somewhere. Man, that's going to take a lot of research and a lot of work, because once you've taken the moral high ground, it's got to apply to everything across the board. I'm sure there's somebody who is tied to Ohio State who's guilty of a crime somewhere. It's in bezzleman, a white collar crime, murder. Right, then you got to start going
and you got to start clearing. And that's the problem with today, especially today's well with today's generation so to speak. Not to sound like a bitter old man, but I'm saying is like we went to this thing with cancel culture, where someone who puts something on social media when they were thirteen and now they're a grown man are being held account for what they said when they were a little kid or they were some stupid adolescent. I mean, we're all there said and did different dumb stuff. We
made a dumb stuff last year. People do dumb stuff and say dumb stuff all the time that it's cringe worthy. That just doesn't hold up. And you know, something to be said about reform. Now We're not that way with Lexner here, but you know what I'm saying is how how much more do you go down this road for
that level of accountability? Because now future major donors, I'd imagine you're watching this, so I Fio State says, Wow, we're going to take two hundred million, rename the buildings, and we're going to keep your money when the political wind shift. Why would enter major donor trust the public university with a naming gift again unless they start building some language into the contract. So this difficult situation for Ohio State isn't just about less Wexner. It's about whether
institutional naming or inspanding at all. I mean, what's what's the point of the contract, And you just got to be consistent their own naming review standards ask if there's a sub according to this a substantial evidence of misconduct harmful to OSU's reputation. If that bar's met, then the money's tainted. If the bar isn't met, then the name should stay. You can't clear the bar for removal, but
not for a refund. And certainly throughout history, universities have certainly kept money from fire worse actors in this case and less Wexner. But it's selective outrage and only applies when a story goes viral. And what's our problem? What do we stand for? It's a really really tough place for any university, specially Ohio State, to be in. You're not taking the side of a less Wexner going, that's fine if you fund Jeffrey Epstein, who's raping young girls.
So I don't worry, it's all good. I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's okay.
If you're going to make this moral stand, then you have to make sacrifices as well. The sacrifice is two hundred million dollars or whatever whatever the amount is here it's a really interesting legal and more dilemma moral dilemma that they're in Columbus right now, because I think there's a lot of people at a hostate going, oh, if you're just quietal, go away or secretly hoping that the Wexner thing fizzles out and no one pays tension anymore.
I don't know this while Epstein thing is just going to continue to build and build. The less our legal system does UH to bring those to justice, the more outcry. I think there's going to be at places like this, Hey, real quick at five point three seven four nine, seven thousand. Let me get to a Larry and Indiana on the Scotsland Show, Hailer, Hey, Scott, what's a uh?
In quest into the Cincinnati They took McMillan's land.
He donated all that and then sure came off the building. They didn't give the land back.
Yep, we just did that, didn't we? That ties in Sure and it's like, well, what do you does the estate? Does the family that the somebody should get money back? At that point, I mean, I don't think there's an ex now McMillan that a long time ago, but there's a you know that there's also a legacy there. What happens if you start taking names off buildings years later?
What what? What about all everything you profited from At this point, it just seems like it's a weird hide road today, especially now with the Wexner thing, because that's more current, right is. I can see where, Hey, they gave us the money, but you know, we learned what he did years later as abhorrent and not onlign with today's standard. Was maybe acceptable back then but not today. And so should you give the money back then? I think that's I think that's a lower bar low threshold
for do you see because of the time. But at Ohio State right now, since this is a current event, I don't know. Do you think they should give the two hundred million back to Wexer?
I believe so.
I mean, you know, and if you'd say that, it feels like you're taking the side of a child predator, which no one is. It's just okay, you kind of have to make a sacrifice.
I think.
I think that's the admiral thing. You can't keep the blood money and then denounce it at the same time. It doesn't it should work that way, And I hope people see through that anyway. Hey, thanks for the call. I got to get a news update in when a return. At ten oh seven, Conpt Member Mark jeffersons, here's a question for you. We know that housing is date tight tight, very expensive like cars, very expensive, and we need more
affordable housing and we need more doors in Cincinnati. Would you live in a place that was above a police station or a firehouse? Now think about well the noise issue for example, that is a proposal for Mark Jefferies to put a dent into our housing supply shortage with affordable housing here in Cincinnati.
I said, you look at it, you go, wait, what's he gonna do?
You're gonna put You're gonna live above a fire a fire station, a police station. Why does this make sense? You'll lay it out next on the show seven hundred WWD Cincinnati. You want to be an American flowing out seven hundred w LW. Could this idea help tackle the housing crisis? You know w a housing pinch, housing crunch, and the idea is to stack housing on top of firehouses and police stations. Council Member Mark Jefferies is here to discuss on seven hundred WLW Mark, Good morning morning. No,
when I first heard this, I chuckle. It seems I don't know why. It just seems silly, you know what I mean.
Yeah, Look, it's it's an interesting to think out of the box given the crisis that we have in housing.
Look, this is.
Happening throughout the country. You think about all the types of buildings that any city built, Yes, firehouses, police stations, but rec centers, health centers, and we build the base, you know, the first floor typically, and there's an opportunity to build a couple of floors on top of that. And in a lot of other cities that enables a
lot more senior affordable housing because the economics work. The city's already spending money to build a foundation, so then a developer just comes in and builds the housing our top. So I think it's an opportunity. It's not going to solve our housing crisis, but it's one way to add more units for people who may want to live in a rangement like that. It's not for everyone, but some folks may very well want to live in a rec center.
Yeah, a rec center. I mean you just mentioned police and fire stations. I guess maybe the fire station or lease stations, particularly the fire station. One to me is I mean, are you going to be people with with that are hard of hearing or hearing issues seniors, because it's I don't know about. If I ever a firehouse, I've been around, it's pretty loud.
Yeah, it's funny.
I chuckle at that as well. But if you think about I mean, I live in Clifton on Love Low. People live literally right next to the fire station. Over in Westwood, the firehouses people live across or next to it. Most fire trucks these days when they leave, they don't put their sirens on right away anyway. And so you know, I mean, yes, it's as I said, it may not be for everyone, but I think it's an opportunity to add more housing units.
And here's the thing, Scott.
You know, we added about five thousand people in terms of population, and we're only adding about a thousand units net of new housing a year, right, And what that means pure supply is a man is that as a result, prices are going up, and so we need more housing. And this is a creative solution that we'll add more housing.
It's true, not just in Cincinnati, but everywhere. The price of housing as we know, is going up exorbitantly these days. I had a started earlier this morning at nine oh six on the podcast, and the average price Mark Jeffreys of a new car has just the average price now has just passed the fifty thousand dollars.
Mark.
Let that's sank in for a second. I mean that's that's car, but housings right up there too.
Yeah.
I mean, look, Scott, the you know, the average average age of a new home buyers forty now. Several years ago it was thirty something. In the sixties it was twenty, I mean forty, and you take out a thirty year mortgage here in your seventies, yep, before you're even paying off the pain off the mortgage, and the I mean, the American dream is just unattainable.
Okay. If you're younger, you feel like the screws.
I mean, I'm someone behind the baby boomer generation and I feel like, Wow, I'm getting squeeze. I can only imagine, you know, you're a gen Z of millennials, but particularly Gen z RS right now. But is this enough housing units to make a dent in it?
Mark? I mean, what are we actually talking about?
Her?
Yeah?
So as I preface, it's not going to solve. It's going to take a lot of these things. We legalize the desperate dwelling units, you remember that. I've met somebody the other day who added it. They moved their parents in their backyard and they absolutely love it.
You know, So you get incremental units.
It's not gonna there's no silver bullets that's going to solve all of the housing needs. But look if we can add a couple hundred units as a result of this, when you when you think about it, it's got you know, we sold the railroad, we're you know, in principle, we've got twice as much investment going into UH into city projects, including we're going to build three new firehouses yep. And so over the next couple of years, we're going to
be added more off the structure. And and what I've asked the administration to do is just look where does it make sense. It may not make sense everywhere, but as they look at their massive plan of where we're going to build new units. I'll give you an example in Oakley, we built a new rec center there that would have been perfect. You know, I know I do know some people that said well, they would love to live on top of a wreck and have a workout, They can go out and you know, leave their kids
at the daycare. You know. Again, except for everyone, but for some.
Yeah, no, no, that seems like I mean that that does seem like a good idea as long as you know, I'm curious how many people are going to wind up running these places. But how do you ensure that housing is built on top of these new structures, Mark Jefferies, is generally affordable and not just a little less expensive than luxury market rates.
Yeah, I mean, the reality is, I think the economics will be in principle much better because if you think about let's say a rec center, the city is paying to build the foundation, of paying to build the first floor, and so that has stunt costs for whatever developers and developers paying for, you know, floors two, three, four, five, one, ever the case may be. And so in principle, what we've seen around the country as a result is those
units are a lot more affordable, especially for seniors. I mean, look to our earlier conversation, and these folks who are in their sixties, seventies and maybe have fixed income, and prices are going up, rents are going up. They need predictable places to live where they know exactly how much their rent is going to be.
And they can't, you.
Know, they don't have flexible income for a lot of folks who are you know, in their seventies plus.
Right, Well, I guess what happens is, so the city would buy property. Let's say they're can to develop a rec center like an Oakley if you could go in the way back machine and do it there. All right, so you own, you buy the land very expensive, You build in the structure as long as you're digging and developing. You put down bigger footer so it can support a building above a building. And now the developer goes, okay, good,
we're going to seal or rent these buildings out. Why wouldn't they just try to get market rate, which is going to be higher than a lot of people can afford. Does that undermine the affordability issue?
Yeah? I mean I think that comes back to who we partner with and what developer and what the agreement is with the developer. And that's where in the early stages of this right, I've just asked the administration to go out and identify where the buildings and then have conversations with different developers, especially ones who build affordable houses, and I think that would be part of the agreement, is that they're building that had income restricted housing on these units.
Okay, he's got some member, Mark Jeffries, with a novel approach here to help put a dent into the city's housing crisis. And it's a crisis that's repeated in every town across America, and saying, hey, you know, if the city's going to start building new fire stations, police stations, rec centers, things like that with the money from the railway fund, well, then shouldn't we think about maybe putting
housing atop some of these buildings. I don't know how many people want to live above a fire station or police station, but rec centers and other buildings like that. Possibly does this help put a small vent, But any little bite of the apple, of course, is better than nothing. I would say in that regard, though, how many other cities are doing this in to what success?
Yeah?
I mean I just saw an example yesterday of a smaller city in Oregon, just outside like Portland or whatever, and they built housing on top of the libraries in town and its senior affordable, I think below sixty percent average union income. There are several cities throughout the country that have done this, and so it's not a completely unique approach. It's been done before. It just hasn't been done here, and you know, it'll drive some incremental units
and definitely worth running the ground. Look, I mean, it may not resolve everything, but it adds a little bit. Then I think we're.
Much I don't think it's I don't think it's a game changer. Like, for example, the ordinance allows people to take their freestanding garages and an accessory dwelling unit and turn that into livable housing. That to me seems a very novel approach because it's good for the homeowner, it's good for tenants. It gets more doors out there that we desperately need. But this is you know, it's I
guess it's a practical solution here. You're already going to build these things, why not put some extra housing above it and try to take some of that load off. I mean, no, it makes sense. We're not just building things to build them for housing. We're actually constructing things that the community needs and then leveraging that because you're already own the property in the building. I mean, no, it makes makes a lot of sense in a lot of regards long as we start small and see how
it goes. How many properties top of your head, mark Jefferies, do you see or how many developments out there that are pending or on the horizon with this money? Now, do you see where this would fit in any specific examples of where might do this? I mean, I do know.
We have at least three firehouses that we're gonna build in the next few years. I think it will probably renovate a couple of help let me think about the city has health centers as well. I mean we're building the Overrye over the Ryan Rec Center now, so that's kind of that ship has sailed, you know, But you're probably talking about, you know, over the next ten years, maybe a dozen or so at most where this could apply. But you know, a dozen with maybe fifty or fewer
units on top. You know that's you know that that starts that up.
Yeah, well, I mean you know you're spending the money already. The bulk of money, as I said, is in the structure, the buying the land and everything is like a little gravy on top. And if you can maybe even make some money off that too and put it back into the fund, that's probably even better for taxpayer.
So it works out there. Any of these.
Areas you mentioned, and I know it's like Frisco is doing it, you said Portland. Are there any problems they've run into with this?
No?
I mean, I think it really depends on having a strong partner and a developer. And we have a lot of local developers who produce, especially IF units, and I think it's just making sure that you've got the right partner who has a track record of, you know, really caring about the types of units that they're developing. And we've got a lot of those, so I think that's that's really the key.
And yeah, are there any liability issues there?
I mean, you know, police stations can be dangerous places, firehouses are noisy, and you've got big equipment coming in there. Any any risk liability concerns?
No?
I mean I think a lot of the places that do it, they've got separate entrances. Obviously you're not going to be walking through a firehouse or a police station.
Wait a minute, I don't get to slide down the pole.
What the hell.
Late for work.
Look, I mean a lot of people might feel a little bit safer u being on top of and as I said, look, I mean said the noise issue. There are a lot of places in the city where people live right next to a firehouse station and uh, you know, they they manage, and so I think a lot of folks might feel particularly safe, you know, on top of it or right next to it.
Right And you also wanted to build this ordinance to to you know, to future profit so someone doesn't come in and overturn it. But you know, you're talking such a small number of units, I can't imagine it being a problem. What about the element though, the contentious Southern Railway Trust Fund, And of course that whole thing was was something contentious to about what you're going to do with the money. And for those who said, wow, here we go, we're gonna get off in the weeds. Now
we're going to take this money. It was destined for infrastructure, our crappy roads and intersections, lights, public safety, maybe some buildings, and now we're going to start building housing out of it that has nothing to do with infrastructure. That's a separate deal entirely. It feels like a legal challenge may come out of this.
Well, what I would say is none of that. First of all, we are legally prohibited from using that money for anything other than current infrastructure. And so if we're you know, building you the structure, that money legally cannot be used, you know, And so it is purely for current infrastructure. So it's not gonna be used to build housing on top of anything. So that money would be a partnership with a developer. If the city is building the structure or renovating the structure, and then on top
the developer would cover that. And it's your point that can be covered in the legal parameters. I think the guard rails on the rail funds.
Are pretty clear.
Gotcha.
So the rail money would bid to the LA Rec Center, police station, fire station. If you decide to do this element of adding on and building up, that's a whole separate fund in different money that's going to come in to do that, and it's going to be in conjunction.
And it's not city money. That would not be city money. The city would not be spending a dime on that.
The developer ware would be got.
A private developer coming in and building housing on top got it.
But again we will see It's interesting. I don't know how the developer doesn't go okay, fine, well we're already doing this. We'll charge market rates. You're gonna have to put some guardrails in there to make sure if you want to do affordable housing or market rate housing, you you then have to instruct them saying, hey, look, you know we'll do this deal, but are you gonna put
caps in for how much they can charge? But that kind of upends the free market because typically someone can afford it if it's a nicer place and go, yeah, I want to live above a rec center, tender track. Maybe more young urban professionals who are going to pay top dollar for that. But that then frees up inventory down the line a little bit.
Yeah, I mean I think for you know, like we have a lot of developers like the Model Groups that does development in and round of the line, that does a lot of affordable units. You know, developers like that who can come in and say yes, they intend to make the units income restricted, and I think, you know, that's what we would have to ensure as we write the contract and partner with them.
He's a council member Mark Jeffers and the Scotslan Show on seven hundred WLW. And the proposal here to take the development from the Cincinnat Southern Railway Trust funds. So it's going to be police stations and rec centers and firehouses and things, Paul libraries, things like that, and in a separate account to housing over the top of some of these buildings to alleviate the housing crisis in Cincinnati. And you know, it's a creative idea. It's a creative
solution here. It'll put a small den in things. But again, any step forward in the right direction, I think is it's a pretty good idea.
Mark.
Yeah, no, I've scotten.
The thing that I want to emphasize this books listening is the prior point. None of this money for housing on top would come from public dollars. This would not be railroad dollars or anything, because I think, you know, initially, when one might see that, they might conclude that. I think what it is is, hey, we're building these structures anyway, let's partner with somebody who then because you've already put this on costs and can build housing on top.
Yeah, and you know I mentioned car is fifty thousand dollars, the average price of car in America and the housing price of housing and rent is going through the literally the roof as well. No pun intended something else had happened recently. I don't know, you only have a second for this, But during his stay the same mayor after that, purevol mentioned his pension bailout plan two hundred and fifty million dollars was stuck, you know, ten years ago to
try and fully fund the city pension program. And now it's like, hey, we don't have enough money in twenty twenty six, and so now we've got another fifty million dollars going in the system, which is about you know, taking a significant by out of tax revenues. At some point, do you look at that model and go, it's antiquated, it's old. That employer funded or city funded pension plant plan doesn't work. Why don't we just move everyone over a four to one k.
Yeah, I mean that's a lot bigger discussion. I mean, as you know, the Futures Commission had several recommendations on solvency on the pension. The proposal that was outlined last week was intended as kind of a compromise of the employer or employees actually increased their own content and then the city in turn is increasing their contribution. So it's
intended as kind of a balance. But I think that's a bigger, longer term conversation is how do we make sure that, you know, I mean, it's the solvency of that fund and the impact on the city budgets well.
Fixed you know, fixed pension plans are it's a dog. I mean, we'll it's losing all over the place, teachers and here in the city of Cincinnati. You can't afford fifty million every few years to prop this whole thing up. And at some point, you know, four oh one k's work wonderfully. I'm in one, and I know people go on, there's no guarant there's no guarantees anymore. I mean, pensions are you know, an idea that's at least fifty years old.
They just simply don't work anymore. And I think it's unfair to burden people, especially younger tax payers and those who are trying to lure to Cincinnati by having to pay the freight on this.
Yeah.
I mean, look, I have a four to one k myself for my company, and my wife through her pediatric office as well. So I mean I hear you. I think this is a larger discussion that we need to have that came out of the Futures Commission of how do we make sure that our physical health is strong going forward? Yeah, and you know there's a lot more that we need to do on that.
Yeah, we'll have a separate conversation there, but that definitely has to change. He's Console member Mark Jeffries. Thanks for jumping on the show again. Mark, have a great day.
Appreciate it's got tickare.
Take care all the best.
Let me get a news updated and that's about five minutes away here on seven hundred WW. The whipsaw, whether we have warm temperatures, We've got more snow coming and then more warm temperatures. As Mom would say, you're gonna get sick, You're gonna catch your death. Full forecast traffic, all that just minutes away here on the Big One seven hundred WW. iHeartMedia and seven hundred WW. Salute Cincinnati's
own Procter and Gamble. If you've got someone there you'd like for us to recognize on air, Text or name to fifty one eight eighty one and be listening slowly back on seven hundred WLW. A couple of things going on this I don't know if you follow. I've really done the BAFT Awards, which are a British thing. I don't even know what the hell that is, but it's
really interesting the controversy surrounding this thing. So they had the word so on what Sunday, And there was a Touret syndrome activist named John Davidson who during the presentation he was seated in the crowd in the audience, and during the ceremony, Black actors del Roy Lindo and Michael B. Jordan were on stage and Davidson was there. The guy with the tourettes was attending because the film I Swear was nominated for awards. I Swear was inspired by his
life with Tourette syndrome. And as you know, Tourette syndrome not in all cases, but in a number of cases makes you say things under nervousness that you know. The extreme examples are people would use very horrible and coarse language, and in the case of Davidson, he was blurting out during the award the N word.
What the N word?
So the host addressed the Ausbers a couple of times he explained that Tourett's syndram ticks are in voluntary, and then afterwards, of course there was all hauled up to pay for that. Jamie Fox fired back on social media. He said the incident was unacceptable and that he meant that bleep that Davidson actually meant it, which if it's an actual bonafide medical condition, and we all know about turetts,
we know that not to be true. But still, the part about this whole thing was I think one journalist wrote something about how black people are supposed to be okay with being disrespected to human eyes, so other people don't feel bad. And the whole problem is the fact that this could have been avoided. Why would you put someone with Tourett's who I mean, I'm sure it's not
the friend, and did he mean it? I would I'd side in him, knowing I don't know much about turets, but I know it's a real, real condition, and you know he's probably spurted put this word out there before himself, right, And so why would you take someone with that disability and put them in a position where they and you kind of thought he might do this because of the tension that put him in a position where this could happen in the first place. And the problem is this
this whole victimhood hierarchy thing too. So you got this disabled person with Turetts harming someone from another marginalized group, and now you've got to rank victimhoods, So like it's
a battle of victimhoods. Who's victim whose experience is worse the guy with Touret syndrome or Black America or blacks in America, And so everyone rushes to defend the guy with Turetts, But there's also harm done to well Lindo and Jordan, so that disability was being used as a shield, right, It's like the apology shouldn't really the apologies should have to come, is it? Apology come from black men or
people with Turetts? And when it came out and said, well, if you're offended by this, that's not really an apology. We apologize if you're a friend it offended by this. So it almost seems like you're a bad person if you're offended by this, which is not true at all. It centers the disabled person's innocence rather than the harm done to the real people in the room and it kind of was a throw right. I have to agree
with the journalists to put that out there now. Prior to this whole thing, guests were told before the show and there was a jumbo tron intro and there are two announcements made by the host, Alan Cumming, who also did the apology and let people know, hey, this could happen.
Is that A Does that feel like you would all a genuine accommodation, like you know, if you're in a wheelchair, we have accommodations where you have ramps, we have elevators, we have have seats extra you go to pay course, damem a Reds game, and you know we should be doing that. We should have ramps and curb cuts and things like that hundred percent. But this almost feels like it's beyond an accommodation and we told you. It's like, oh, we told you ahead of time this could happen. So
if you're uncomfortable, it's your problem. Now, why would you put him in that type of seating where he could do that? Or I'm not put him in a you know, like if you go to go to mass and they have the cry room for kids, so they have just rubbed mass.
Why not in an environment like that.
Well, then you're singling him out and making him feel well, you know, I'm sorry if if this is the condition which you suffer from, and there's no cure for it, it's a horrible thing. I'm not saying I'll forget about it. I'm saying this.
We go so far to make accommodations or aggrieved groups.
It's insane. It's a terret is a real thing. It's a tick. Doesn't answer why you would use the N word. And I feel badly for the black prof formers that were there too. And now we've got this fight between who's the more aggrieved group. It's this, this whole.
I don't know.
It's empathy, theater we want to feel. So we want to hold this person up because they're nominated for this important, stupid award and and we're gonna we're gonna treat them like anyone else would anyone else. And it's your fault if you don't quote unquote get it. That's it's so exploitative, and that's where we are today in society for a lot of groups, not just someone with turets in this case.
There are some people and I know that the not maybe the most common thing, but if you have tourettes is people who have nervous laughter.
It's kind of close to that.
There are some folks under stress they'll laugh, I love, like I don't know, a big tragedy happens and they'll start laughing, you know, like what a jerk? What an a hole? Yeah, but that's that's the tick. And I'm sorry, but involuntary, it's involuntary. They can control themselves. Yeah, but it also doesn't mean consequence free and selfware about how
your condition affects others is still a reasonable expectation. You shouldn't be allowed to do whatever the hell you want to do because your condition.
It's it's there's and none of that.
I think it's you think that Davidson guy with taretz, do you feel kind of like he's I don't know, like a he's like a display item. Like they're putting him out there going, oh, you look at your successful and good for you treating them like, you know, like like a ten year old autistic kid for crying out loud. He has agency too. Those things aren't usually exclusive. He could have said, yeah, you know what, this is kind of exploitative. I know, I'm gonna blurt some bad stuff out,
maybe not the end bomb, but bad stuff. And it's going to disrupt the ceremony. Yeah, maybe everybody off on a corner backstage. Why do you have to know? No, we have to treat you like everyone else, but you're not. And if you do that and you're put in a position now he again, I said he has agency so he could say, yeah, I'm not doing this, but chose to engage in this whole spectacle. This is what happens, you know, the debate over you know, Jamie Fox, Well,
it's not real. He said that, he meant it. You know, I couldn't disagree more. It's or Israel. It obviously is. But there's this whole cultural reflux now because of propriety and because of empathy, which should have empathy, but I think that's that's also you're you're taking empathy and you're using it as a weapon as a well, either you're with us or against us.
It's not that way. You know, there's there's I'm sorry, but there's.
This culture reflux where you say a disability or aggrieved group and it instantly ends in a moral conversational to you that if you if you say anything against us, you're a horrible person.
That's not true at all.
How is this serving actual disabled people or is it just making everyone else feel enlightened while the real harm goes unaddressed. I mean this, it's the dumbest, most awful example of our times. And that's just this week. I'm sure tomorrow will be something else. You know, the tics aren't your fault. I get that, but they can make
people uncomfortable. And I'm sure Davidson knows that too. And if his tick is shouting horrible obscenities, you should be willing to accept you do need special accommodations and just have the decency to ask for them and not be trotted out there like some sort of freak show spectacle, which is what this whole thing is now devolved in. And how does that help people with any disability or of any group. It's just the decide wheelers. It's insane. It's insane. You want to blame well, it's a social
media culture. It's just how we are. So we're bend over backwards to look how look how inclusive we are.
But you're not.
That's that's the exact opposite of that. And you made, you know, you made people in this case. But black guys go, yeah, I'm supposed to accept that that horrible word.
Not not really.
And then if you if there's backlash against the guys turetts, then you don't have any empathy for people with disabilities like.
That, which those two things are. It's just simply not true. What a joke.
I mean that guy that happened over there, it didn't didn't happen to BAFT awards when you're a lesser award show. But the whole victim would hierarchy and which is the more you know, know, if you had a I don't know, if you had a black Asian person in a wheelchair with Tourett's and they also had I don't know, gluten issues, sens it. I mean, you know where we're like looking
for this ultimate poster chote. It feels like these groups do that, they look for this ultimate cause like wow, it's gone, it checks all the boxes.
It's a horrible look. Everyone's got their stuff, I get it.
And some disabilities are are not visible to utts is obviously, but you know, we should have to be choosing between between these groups. It's just it's it's a crazy it's a crazy notion we got to today, that's for sure. Anyway, Scott flowing here on seven hundred W. But I'm glad I don't watch ward shows. That's the bottom line for it today. Another reason not to watch Award shows for sure. Here's something on a light well, I don't know if
it's a lighter basis or not. You know, we have these apps now and certainly we have devices those apps work with and if you have an Apple I have an Apple Watch now.
You know.
I track a little fitness on there. I got a calendar.
I can look at the weather because I'm you know, I'm a d d AF and I need those things document by time and so I can. Oh, I got text I'm looking at it right now. And we also have these with the Aura rings. You put the ring on, it tracks your sleep. And we have fitbits. We have all these devices. Say what is the one thing we don't track on you? I mean, think about it. You can track everything. You can track your steps, I can track my sleep, I could trap my exercise. It tells
me where I am in the world. It's got GPS locator on it. I get my messages, I get the way I get all this stuff coming at me. What is the one tool that is What is the one thing on our bodies? He say, is not measured how the new Apple watches by the way, uh ekg it tells you if you're going to the v fib. I mean, it's like having it's like having a doctor following you are on on your ears. Like every possible metric with your health is now measured. Exercise steps, vertical, I'm going
under the ocean over the you all these things? How fast am I walking?
You know? The one thing that isn't measured.
Farting? Your watch? Your fitbit cannot measure how much gas you produce. Until now, the University of Maryland has developed a wearable sensor dubbed the Fitbit for Farts that monitors flatulence in real time. And you're going, how does it do that on your wrist? Well, it's not on your wrist?
Wait what.
So?
The device itself is about the size of a stack. It looks like three nickels, and it detects hydrogen emissions from your butt and it sits outside your underwear. I'm not sure if there's like a special strap, if it's a clip on, it's a plug. I'm not quite sure if it's a butt muffler. How this works. I only see I'm only looking at an aerial view here. And you have to you have to.
Recharge it every I'm making this up. No, it's true. You're recharge it every twenty four hours.
And that, by the way, is a charge. And I hope to guy like, oh, yeah, it's a qug. You just put some magnetic thing. I hope it has a separate charging cord or dock that no other device can fit into, because I don't want to be hey, man, can I charge my phone?
Yeah?
Here, Well what's this from?
Well, it's that thing I put my butt, So you don't want to be confused and put your phone on that same charge. Just hope it's like a different shape charger. We need a new port. That's they call it a port for your port. It is called the Human Flatuless. Atlas is what this app is, and it studies. Uh they're doing a study right now looking at They're sending out eight hundred devices to people nationwide, so there's already
four thousand people applied. The wait list is long for this thing because researchers say forty percent of US adults suffer regular digestive issue choose and fiber rich diets, which are key to gut health, as you know, often get a banded due to gas and bloating. So they are looking for people who are next level farts. One person who's in the study and they use this device and found that they pass gas. How many times you think it's got to be like a world record one person?
The lowest one is only four times. Another person one hundred seventy five a day. That's like a full time job. One hundred and seventy five times a day.
You out of you had to be in a Hospital's who I be?
Before field testing, the sensor is calibrated using an artificial butt, a lab butt, a mannequin attached a gas cannon to simulate fletceleance. On command, the top three percent of gas producers will get their gut microme microbiome sequence and receive a plaque declaring them prodigious hydrogen producer. Now that let me tell you something. You may have some stupid golf you I finished third in my flight at the country club.
Uh, I want to try. I want to try.
I got a participation ribbon for the Tough Mutter. I want to I got a World Series, I got a Stanley Cup. I want an Olympic gold medal. I don't care about all that. You want, you need, you desire, you crave, you covet the prodigious hydrogen producer plaque. That's what you want. That is the ultimate goal right there. So anyway, they want to get these devices out there, and they want to develop treatments, maybe a pill for people suffering from chronic gas and bloating. You see those
wacky you know, drug comerciant tving Ai and Blownding. I gotta take this product over the counter. I'm blound it, I feel bad. Which you need is one of these button mufflers. Again, this is the University of Maryland. I don't have a phone number few to call it, and I have a website. I don't even have an email here. But they are developing a wearable censor, the fitbit for
farts that moderns flatulence in real time. Count me in because my wife say, yes, absolutely, you should be that you should definitely be doing the clinical trials for this Scott. You absolutely, Sue, I'm quite proud of that actually, and so one hero.
We don't have.
We measure every other metric with our bodies, fitness apps. You know some of these people are insane. Oh, I have shave of CREMANI here on Thursday, fitness doctor and he's got a guy one percent body fat, but he is one percent, and he's treating his body like a human laboratory, seeing how low he can get his body fat percentage, how riptiking, how bulked up he can get. We measure all that stuff all the time, and we're
inundated with products. No one has addressed the issue other than a I don't know, over the counter remedy for your gas and bloating.
It is here, take this tablet.
But you know if you have to take one of those a day, or a couple of those a day, you're like, something else is going on here.
This could be the first say this is here. Don't laugh. This is serious scientific research. This is serious, very very very serious. The very last bastion of measurement on our body, measuring your farts.
Here's the thing. A few years ago they came out with home breathalyzers, and have you seen this that are like one hundred bucks are probably in cheaper now I get on Amazon for probably like five bucks, and it's a portable breath lay. You take it within. So if you're out and you're having a good time, I'm like, why I am I good enough to drive? You're good enough? You're asking that question? You probably you probably aren't, but so you're blow in the tube. It's're it that way.
It's like, oh, okay, I know that I'm am I close to or over the legal limit. I don't recommend it because they'll still know you if you're under the legal limit. That's a different topic entirely. But oh I got that. I got that same information they have in the top palm of our hands. Now what happens is you get these devices, then you go here, hold my beer.
I can get a higher score than you, because I've heard that, Like people buy these things and bring them a bar and then everyone's blowing into this thing, and everyone wants to see if they're drunker than the next guy. Try to set some sort of like you know, that's not what it's forced to make sure you're okay. It makes sure you're not over the legal limit. It's not to try and get a high score. This isn't King's Island,
this isn't pop a shot. What do you I guarantee you this product comes out, people buy them and then have farting contest like we've always had, guys. We've always done farting contest, ladies. And if you knew that or not, or lighting farts whatever, very beaves and budhead, I understand it. But what's gonna happen is people are gonna get this thing and go You're only farting one hundred and seventy one hundred and seventy five times a day here, old
midel design. You watch this, and then people will try to eat more stuff, and eventually it's going to turn into like a different version of the Fourth of July hot dog eating contest at Coney Island, you know, the Nathan's hot Dog. How many can you how many? Okay, here you go in ten minutes, how much can you fart? That's what's gonna happen. It's gonna be sponsored by that. I'm telling you because we're Americans, and especially American men.
This is what we do.
We take something like this designed to help the human condition and we exploit it.
Into a game.
It becomes a game show sloany seven hundred wobody since anat do.
You want to be in Amernican?
He's got a flow show on the big one seven hundred W LW. So parents and grandparents lived longer, and one of the biggest challenges we face as kids and grandkids is protecting them from abuse. And if they're around us on a daily basis, it's much easier. But how do you do that when the people who you entrust to care for their daily needs are the ones doing
the abuse. For example, today, there's a story out just a couple of days old here former nursing home employee in Goshen Charge was stealing more than three hundred thousand dollars from residence under her care over a number of years.
Then there's also this may have seen this story recently.
Eighty four year old Robert Meyer was I think living for a couple months at Forest Hills Healthcare Center. He has then transferred because he's dying, to the Margaret Thomas Hospice of Solving Blue Ash and then he dies and he's buried. He was later exhumed by the coroner because an investigation proved he was murdered and upon examination of the body, the cause of death as a homicide from physical elder abuse. It is an incredible story. Jeffrey Heller
is an attorney with Nuremberg, Paris, Helen McCarthy and Cleveland. Jeffrey, Welcome to the show.
How are you.
I'm doing well, good morning, Thanks so much for having me.
Yeah, that's the narrative there, and it's it's it's almost like a dateline kind of case. You know, it's something you'd watch on NBC. I don't make light of it. But wait, he died and then they how the hell does that happen that they bury the man and then exhumed the body because of an investigation and it's determined that he was well, he was murdered in that case, and you also have to understand wonder who saw the body and allowed that to occur. So walk us through
the timeline here. I know it was his daughter who first noticed the strangulation marks, the ligature marks around his neck. And what kind of responses does she get from each facility because his custody care was transfers that there's a chain, it's not just one place it's at least a couple.
Can you take me through that?
That's right. This is one of the most wild stories I've ever seen her been involved with, and I've been doing this virtually my entire career. But mister Meyer was eighty four years old, he had three children, four grandchildren. He had three brothers, several of them lived in the area.
He gets admitted to Forest Hills Health Care Centers in Cincinnati in July of twenty twenty five because he's eighty four and he has some health conditions that prevent him from living alone, which he was doing, and in about two months into his stay, he starts complaining of being hurt. Now keep in mind he's eighty four years old. His communication isn't great, but he actually calls nine to one one from the facility because of how he was feeling, and in fact, he's sent to a hospital in July
August time frame. Nothing is found at that point in time, so he sent back to this Forest Hills Healthcare and in early September he starts exhibiting signs of trauma to his neck and actually his body, but mostly his neck. And his daughter, obviously, who visits him regularly, saw these marks started telling staff something's wrong, and their response was, this is normal. This is what happens as you're older and dying.
Wow.
And so she smartly documents this and takes photographs. But exactly as you said, he's then transferred out of the nursing home into a hospice center, where he dies within a couple of days. Now keep in mind, and it's really important, nurses and doctors in Ohio must this is an optional. They must notify the corner if there are signs of physical abuse or criminal activity related to someone passing away. So this poor man had evidence of that
at the nursing home. Then he goes to hospice where there's obviously a hospice doctor overseeing all the patients there, and then he ultimately passes and is sent to a funeral home. And at this point his daughter is she doesn't know what else to do. She keeps being told that this is normal, and they you know this, These are these are people you know, with with medically speaking,
a lot of power. There's a there's a big power disparity between these facilities and patients, especially patients like Robert Meyer and and you know, really his daughter who have no medical training whatsoever, and she is being told repeatedly this is normal. Unfortunately, your father is sick and he's dying.
He said, you mentioned it, called nine to one number of times. What was the police report? Did they not see the strangulation the ligature marks.
On his neck?
So when he he was able to get transferred to the hospital without police involvement. So he's taken and this is what we believe is before there's any bruising to his neck. So one of the things that the police are doing right now is investigating. You know how early this happened. We know that the because we have photographic evidence of this. We know that the bruising appeared on his neck much closer to death. So we're talking early
September is really when the real serious evidence presented. He had been calling, he had called nine one one and been transferred to the ho hospital before that. We don't know exactly how much prior to September early September that that happened, but he was seen at the hospital. The
neck bruising was not there. And I don't want to make assumptions about the ability to find certain types of injuries even on X ray, but long story short, he was returned back to the facility after, you know, from the hospital.
Yeah, Jeffrey Heller's here is an attorney in Cleveland, and he's representing the estate of a man who was well only thought he had died of what they called protein
deficient malnutrition, which happens in elderly patients. He was in hospice, but because of the persistence of the daughter and the family in particular, they exhumed his body and found out that he was murdered by the same people who are entrusted to care for him right here in Cincinnati, namely Forest Hill's Healthcare Center and then the Margaret Thomas Hospice of Facility and Blue Ash. The assault allegedly occurred over what a ten day period, I believe is what the
brief said. Does the evidence suggest a single incident, this is ongoing abuse?
Then well, the strength, I mean, what we're referring to as strangulation marks a really significant. Yeah. But we we at least at this point in time, we can't say whether it was one incident or multiple incidents, but we do know that he was complaining of being hurt at least several weeks before the marks appeared.
Yeah.
And the hard part about that for investigators, and I'm sure this this comes out too, is that you know, sometimes an elderly patient, especially ones in the later stages of life, will complain about things and because of drugs, because of your condition, and you can write that up as well, you know, drug induced or late stage life induced hallucinations. You know, my mom went through something like that when she was dying of cancer. I thought that the nurses were there and the one had green laser
eyes were coming in to hurt her. And I thought, well, Mom, no one has laser eyes. But you know, you hear that enough and then there's confirmation bias there. So that may be a factor. It doesn't excuse this, but it may put into context what's going on here. But you know, when you look at those people who are entrusted with his care. You got a nursing home, you got hospice facility,
you have a funeral home. How many people saw mister Meyer in that state and how many people did he have to see and how many people fail to act here?
Unfortunately all of them. I mean, we have photos with timestamps on them that are from when he was at the nursing home, when he was at hospice, and then when he died, So all three of those facilities were aware. They all have a duty under ohiolat to notify the corner to have an autopsy performed or at least a gross examination. And Scott, you hit the nail on the head is the police were provided these photographs after he
had already been buried by the funeral home. At that point, obviously they're well behind the eight ball in doing an investigation. And so that's part of the reason why these facilities are required by law to notify authorities, because what happens in that time frame between him being buried, being dug up, the autopsy being corrected, and then an investigation beginning, I mean, God forbid, someone who did this is still out there, right.
And that's the point, Jeffrey, is what's the status I'm guessing hamilin kind of shriffes involved here, what's the status of that investigation? Do they have suspects or are there people under scrutiny?
Do we know.
They're diligently pursuing this case. We are in constant contact with them. They're doing everything that they possibly can, and we really appreciate everything that they're doing, obviously, but after something like this happens, there's obviously not a big tendency to be forthcoming with the police. I mean, this is
clearly a criminal investigation. I mean, truthfully, any suspect his a right to remain silent, and obviously the nursing facility, you know, we assume, is doing their own investigation and they want to complete that before they're going to disclose things.
Yeah, this is is going to be adjudicated in court. So yeah, the lawyers are talking to the lawyers, whose lawyers are talking to our lawyers. I get that, and that's how the world works here in America. I gets The obvious question for those of us here in the cheap seats is how does a hospice doctor, because somebody has to sign that that certificate, how do they miss.
That it's signed by We know who the doctor is. And absolutely that's essentially the last line of defense for this family. I mean, that's the last person who should have reported this, and we're looking forward to speaking with them and figuring out why he made the decisions that he made. I mean, without a doubt, the evidence is clear, and at worst, you notify the corner, an autopsy is done and no foul play is determined, Yeah, or foul plays ruled out completely. So there's really no excuse for
not contacting the corner. And he's just one of several doctors and nurses are obligated as well, So he's just one of several doctors and nurses and saw mister Meyer and that.
And here he is.
He's eighty four years, end of life and he's going through you know, he knows he's probably not getting out healthcare center. They transferred to h to hospice, and hospits only have a one way door. They don't have an exit. They have an entrance and that's it. There's only one way out, and you kind of know that's coming.
Uh.
And and I guess to be treated and dismissing this fashion is extremely disturbing.
Uh.
And the investigation will continue, hopefully justice will come out for the family. In your research, Jeffrey, and you're a lawyer, you're not a doctor or a physician. How unusual is it for a body to being zoomed based on well family photographs? And what does that tell us about the strength of evidence?
I mean, this, this is the first time in my law firms one hundred year history that this has happened. So none of us have ever seen it happen. None of our colleagues, year after year, I've ever seen this happen. This is incredibly unusual. But it speaks to how serious this is and how concerned really the authorities are about what happened and making sure that they find out what happened, and like we were talking about before, prevent this from
happening to someone else. But this is this is incredibly unusual and really does not happen.
Yeah, yeah, Chris, what's a specific legal standard in Ohio it's required for these facilities to report these things to the corner Because you it sounds like you believe that there was a cover up here.
There's a there's a law. You know, not many things are black and white, but in Ohio, there's a law that specifically obligates doctors and nurses for multiple reasons. I mean, I'm just giving you this specific as to this case. I mean, obviously, cases involving children are high up on the list of mandatory reporting to corners, but in this situation, doctors and nurses shell there, meaning there's no sns or
butts about it. They shall notify the corner if there's signs of abuse or its completely separate criminal activity, and here we have both of those. So there are very few laws that are as direct as this law is regarding the obligations of doctors and nurses to notify the corner.
Yeah.
And it's telling too because the initial dust certificate will was listed as protein cavalie mal Let me try that again, protein cavalie malnutrition, which basically means you know, you're not getting the food in. That's very very common at end of life, just not beating. But yet upon the body being exhumed and the investigation shows, well, that wasn't the cause of death. It was physical elder abuse and a contributing factor was deaf by strangulation.
That that's murder. Yep.
The death certificate clearly says this is a homicide that's at the hands of another human being.
And now we've got to find the person or persons responsible here. You, obviously, Jeff, are handling the civil litigation here. But what what criminal charges could potentially be filed here outside of homicide.
Well there, I mean, there's a variety of charges within the homicide umbrella, including manslaughter, voluntary, involuntary and obviously aggravated murder. If this was pretty calculated, and you know, we rely on the police to do their investigation identify suspects. Generally, the process is to seek an indictment from a grand jury at that point, so the police will collect all the evidence that they have presented to the grand jury.
The grand jury will be tasked with indicting the correct charges, but they will be on or under that.
In addition to the healthcare center and the hospice facility, you also named a funeral home in this suit as well.
Why well, I mean, there's a variety of harm that was caused to this family, to all them. We firmly believe that a funeral home, seeing a patient in the condition that mister Meyer was in, understands that burying someone without proper investigation is incredibly serious. His family has endured significant trauma because of what happened. The funeral home is not necessarily a healthcare provider. That's that's something that we
will flesh out in a lawsuit. But it changes the possible remedies against a facility like that.
Interesting, Yeah, because because I mean, in my mind Jeffrey and Plan. An armchair lawyer here, it's like, Okay, well they have the they have the person after they've they're deceased. Do they have access to the medical record cause death? Do they They're not investigating, They're just you know, getting the body prepared for burial and in viewing. So do they even have a hand in going, well, well, they're strangulation mark.
Do they know how he died? Does that even factor in?
Well, again, the photographs were evident to them as well.
Sure, and.
Whether the statute requiring certain providers to notify the corner, whether that applies to them is something that will have to be flushed out. But at a minimum, in the business of taking care of, you know, the end stage of life for individuals, and seeing that they're taking care of respectfully and with dignity, you would think it's incumbent on them to at least ask a question, maybe yeah, as to whether this has been investigated and ruled out or ruled in.
So here's eighty for a Robert Meyer and his daughter, yes, family. What scares me about this is for those people who are indigen or those people who don't have loved ones around to be able to monitor their care and ask these questions. And it mays want to ask, if this happened to Robert Meyer, how many more cases like this are out there.
Yeah, it's a shame that it's incumbent on family a lot of times to keep an eye on their loved one, which is difficult because loved ones don't always live in the same vicinity. Yeah, you know, they're out of state and whatnot, and you know, it really is a shame. But I would encourage any family member to keep in
touch with their loved one, keep in touch with the facility. Obviously, if you see something or hear something from your loved one that's concerning, you have the absolute right to request a meeting with the care team for your loved one. They cannot say no to that. So if you have any any concerns, you should absolutely have for a care conference. They call it. And then also the government, the Ohio Department of hell Overseas nursing facilities, and they actually do
an incredible job. If they're contacted about a concern, for example, if you're out of state, they will almost always contact the facility and at least initiate a request to look into a loved.
One good now because we're all living longer, and this is the downside of that for sure. Jeff Heller is an attorney in Nuremberg, Paris. Heller McCarthy in Cleveland is handling the case of Robert Meyer, certainly one of the more interesting ones and one of the more unbelievable stories that you'll ever hear.
And I'll hold on your number, Jeff.
I'll reach back out as a story unravels, because there's going to be a lot more. I guess things to drop in this case as it moves forward, but I'd love to have you back at some point.
Absolutely. I really appreciate it and I look forward to speaking with you again.
Yes, sir, we live longer and there's unforeseen dangers out there like this. We'll talk your wallet up next. Took it in the shorts yesterday. Actually we found out. Today's going to Andy Schaeffer from Simply Money and all Worth Financial Belt. Why we had that big dip yesterday, Ai and terrists more to follow seven hundred w Golde.
Time to talk.
About money, how to make it, how to keep it, and how to keep others off your stash. This is all Worth advice with Andy Schaeffer, Andy, good morning.
How's life Scott? Life couldn't be better? All right? We'll see about that.
The Dow was down eight hundred points plus yesterday, took it in the shorts. It looks like it's rebounding today. But then again, we have State of the Union tonight, So the President could say something that could cause the market to go up a thousand points or down five hundred points tomorrow. We don't know at this point. I think a couple of things working here. Most people think it was a tariff seal, but it was also AI.
I want to get to that in a second, but let's start with the tariffs and the President after the Supreme Court ruling saying well, we're going to move forward anyway with ten percent now immediately tonight, and it's going to go up to fifteen at some point. Take us through what that looks like for the market and if that's even doable.
Yeah, I can, I can do that.
I think you know that's on most investors' minds is how does the tariffs impact the markets, the economy. The ruling by the judicial branch, all of that is the Supreme Court. So essentially the Supreme Court ruled that Trump cannot use the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. He calls it AIPA. I love a good acronym, you know, And the path now is basically was ruled unconstitutional. You have
to understand how the different branches of government works. So you know, we have to go back to sixth grade civics to understand that the legislative branch, which is primarily Congress, is responsible for making the laws. The executive branch, the president, is responsible for enforcing or carrying out the laws.
The judicial branch interpose the laws.
And basically what the judicial branch has said the Supreme Court effectively is that Donald Trump can't do this. And he was citing the fact that, hey, this is an emergency.
You know.
The reasons that I'm using these terriffs are to prevent fentanyl from coming into the United States and also by making sure that we have leverage against you know, a lot of our international foes. And you know, basically, what the judicial branch said is no, no, no, no, you can't do that. This is what Congress is for. Congress needs to make these laws. This is part of Article one,
you know, of the Constitution. This is unconstitutional and Essentially, the markets responded and said, oh, no, what are we going to do?
How do we pay these back? What does this look like?
It's scary and it becomes you know, more uncertainty for the investor in general because it's so complicated and we really don't know what the fallout is. Well, you know, as we kind of uncover and look into the legal abilities of the executive branch, particularly Donald Trump, we found that well, he has other methods that he can use to use terrorists on these other countries as well.
Uh one, Article T one.
Twenty two, two thirty two, et cetera, which allows him to have these powers, which effectively means that, yes, we can put tariffs on other countries in different ways. It's just a little bit more cumbersome, but it can be done. And so I don't think it's going to have a major impact on the markets. I know yesterday Marcus felt quite a bit, but I think that had largely to do with the uncertainty of how these teriffs play out.
Okay, that's the tariff element, and also we have now the refund element of that too. Some one hundred and fifty billion dollars, yeah, is what we collected in tariffs, and now companies are lined up to get that money back because of the Supreme Court ruling. FedEx, for example, filed suit yesterday in the Court of International Trade after that decision. They said they want the refund duties collected from the company and all entries subject to tariffs under LIPA.
And so you've got countless companies, big and otherwise that are part of this too. How do you sort that out? And what impact does that have in the economy. Yeah, I mean it could take years.
You know.
Senate Democrats basically announced legislation yesterday that will require full refunds with interest, you know, at the sum of about one hundred and seventy five billion dollars. And so you know, you have all this money that was collected by the emergency terriffs i EVA tariffs or whatever. So those refunds will be issued to businesses that pay the import duties, you know business cause could pass some on to the
benefit of the consumers by lowering prices. But this will take years to you know, really kind of play out. And from an economic standpoint, you had a lot of FED speakers that basically said, you know, we're not even really looking at this. We're more looking at what what jobs and what the labor market is telling us, and what inflation data tells us, because this is really kind of you know nothing.
As far as they're concerned.
You know this, this will be carried out over time, and our economy is so robust that it probably won't have a major impact, not only to businesses. Maybe they do see some sort of refund, but it's not like the consumers are going to get you know, the benefit of this. Maybe eventually lower prices, but it's not going to be anything that's significant.
All right, And people heard this and what a lots of Trump tariffs is why the market went down with the ruling and everything else. Now there was something else in there too, and it had to do with AI. There's a viral report that came out that tapped into a new strain of fears about AI. And it's a pretty bleak future in which technological change inspires a race to the bottom and white collar the industry. So what we know between our ears is going to be replaced
by AI. There's concerns over people are scaling this up. Just don't have any money left they spent out already, and there's disruption all over the place. They call it a global intelligence crisis that's about to hit here. So what if AI is so bullish of the economy, it actually is bearished.
That's what this sounds like.
Well, I mean, there was an interesting piece that was co authored by a research department and basically they're a managing partner of a tech company, and it was basically kind of a look back and to see what this AI, you know, revolution looks like. And I think what people were really fearful about is, well, we've gained all of
this momentum from AI. We've all benefited from the stock prices of AI that have increased over time, and we see this valuation that is super inflated because you know what we are when we're buying AI, we're anticipating that the production and the profitability will increase over time and in the future. Well, when you have significant pe ratios, which means that the price is higher than what the earnings potential is, you have a potential for a bubble.
And that's the major fear here and it's going to continue. We're going to be talking about this Scott for the next two to three years until this all shakes out we figure out what AI is actually going to do from a profitability standpoint.
But here's what I do now.
I know that if you're a business owner or if you're an employee, we are using AI more and more every day. I see it with the job, I see it within our business. I was talking to some friends the other day and some clients that use AI to plan their vacations. So it's here and we have to understand how to use it, and I think you have to adapt. In my opinion, I'm more bullish on AI than I think a lot of fearful investors are currently.
I think that as we move into the future, AI is going to be more a part of our daily lives. We'll see how it affects employment and in how it affects businesses. But I think we will adapt just like we did during the Industrial Revolution, just like we did in the early two thousands, absolutely to the internet, and so I think it's here to stay. I'm not as
fearful as some economists might be. I think it's a good place to be invested, and I think you should still should have that as a piece of your portfolio.
Not only with every time we've had a disruption like this. An AI's a massive disrupt could be the mad biggest disruptor of our lives. Yeah, it's going to take a lot of jobs, but it's also going to produce a lot of jobs that aren't even jobs yet.
That's what we always forget.
Yeah, and I think as we move forward into the future, technology is going to be a bigger player there, right. You know, back in the early nineteen hundreds, we were more of a manufacturing type of society. That's what really drove our economy. Twenty percent of our economy was manufacturing, only thirty percent with services. That has recently flipped since the nineteen seventies and eighties. We are now seventy percent
more of a services industry, only thirty percent manufacturing. And as we move into the future, most of our future is going to be technology.
I like technology. I like my Apple phone.
It tells me how to get places, it helps me order food, it gives me reservations. And I think that as you continue to use technology and you start to realize what AI is all about and utilize that in your everyday life, you're going to understand it makes our lives a lot easier.
So it's not going anywhere, and it does make us more productive.
The things that I can get done by using AI opens up my day to a lot more productivity. And I use it, you know, literally every day, and I think most workers will as well. Now is that going to eliminate my job in the future, I don't think so. I think you're an emotional component of people in general that want to interact with other individuals as opposed to relying on AI. And we're still not fully aware of the factual basis of AI and how accurate it can be.
There is some fear there as well, but as more and more people use it, I think they'll realize that it becomes, you know, a useful tool not only from an employment standpoint, but also within our everyday loss.
Yeah, and finally too, these two things tied together with our old front inflation here too and the inflation outlook right. And it's kind of hard too, because you know, we we had this many government shutdown going on yet again, and to try and get all these numbers together is rather difficult. But I know, inflation from from an inflation standpoint, when it's AI, but a special to teariffs, where do we stand?
Well, you know, what we saw towards the end of last year was that our growth was a lot weaker than what we thought, and I think a lot of that has to do with the government shutdown. When we look at inflation, it is trending lower. When you take out a lot of the external costs like exports, imports and those types of things, those are violable categories that don't really represent the underlying economic trend. Core GDP is a healthy two point four percent. That is in line
with the range over the past three years. And so when we look at moving forward and hopefully these government shutdowns start to minimize a little bit, and who knows, you know, Congress loves to shut down and go on vacation and do those types of things, I think the economy is in pretty good, pretty good shape. When the Fed meets, we're going to get a ton of FED speakers this week. I think that it's not likely that we see another cut, and probably until June, I think
is the next most likely cut. But we'll see how it goes. We'll see what the Fed members have to say this week. But I think generally we're kind of in a Goalilock's phase right now, where unemployment is fairly reasonably low. And also I think that inflation is trending the way that the Fed wants. And I don't think that tariffs are going to have a major impact on you.
I know, the jobless claims ticked up a little bit. Is that just like seasonal or weather? What is it both?
I think it is influenced by seasonal adjustments, you know, usually the winner we start to see that increase a little little bit, you know, really right now, what we're seeing is that if you're out of a job, it's a little bit harder to find a job. But most of mostly, I think that employment is fairly stable. If you have a job, you're more likely to keep it than lose it.
Okay, Andy Schaeffer from all Worth Financial and the Simple Money Show that airs at six on fifty five KRC, A little weekly tune up with your money. The President's going to speak at the State of the Union tonight tonight, tonight tonight. In typical Trump fashion, usually he drops a bomb no one's expecting, or says something away.
What did he just say?
As someone who follows the markets and has to calm down nervous investors, do you anticipate tonight's State of the Union. You're prepared for an early day tomorrow. I just you know, we've seen this before where he says something, Oh, we didn't see that coming in everyone starts flipping out.
Yeah, you know, it's funny.
My clients typically know and anticipate, you know, really what I'm going to say, So anytime I get an email or a phone call, they usually say, you know, Andy, I think I know what you're going to say, but I just need to ask it anyway. And essentially, the markets have kind of already adjusted the bluster from Donald Trump and the potential for him to say something funny tonight. So my clients are already prepared for volatility. You know, I've told all of them, you know, leading into this year.
You know, don't be surprised if we see a pullback. It's likely to happen. But in an expanding economy, any type of pullback that we see is going to be short lived, so we don't really flinch at that.
You know.
Ultimately, what we're focused on is recession risk probability, and that's very low at this time. So if you do see a pullback, don't be alarmed, it's likely due to investor irrational behavior, a reaction to headlines, and that's not something that we try to get tied up into. It just is not that important and it's very short lived. Okay, week ahead, what are we looking at? Well, we have a pretty quiet week this week. I think the most
important thing is the producer price index on Friday. That usually gives us an idea of how inflation looks from the consumer standpoint. It's almost forecasting, you know what the consumer looks like from an inflation price point portfolio. And we also are going to have a number of FED speakers this week. They like to talk, they like to tell us what they think, so I'll be keeping a close eye on that.
Well, all right, fair enough, Andy Schaeffer, Simply Money and all Worth Financial.
Thanks again, brother, appreciate it. Okay, Scott, talking to you. Talk next week.
And of course the all Worth team does Simply Money tonight at six on fifty five KRC.
Always check your wallet every Tuesday morn. I don't know why.
Tuesday feels like Monday would be depressing, Wednesday feels like eh, Tuesday.
Seems like a good day for this.
Actually, most people check their fur own case Monday Tuesday. So if you take a peek at that, yeah, it's going to be a bad day for you. Said no, look at it's get a waitful tomorrow. Wait, don't we give it a week? Relax, relax like getting on the scale every day. You shouldn't do it. Willy is on the way after news update coming up top of the hour. We got the weather whiplash effect going on. We got snow, we got warm, we got snow coming back in and then warm again. We'll wrap that up for you in
a nice little bow. And as I said, Willie at the twelve oh six to day here on the Home of the reds back at it against Kansas City today. That's over on I believe ESPN or now I think that's on thirteen sixty. I believe, I believe Scott Sloan show. I'm the Home of the Red seven hundred WWT, Cincinnati,