Don't want to be in a mean idiot.
Good morning, Scott's Loan Show on seven hundred WLW on a beautiful Thursday morning. Of course, there is a poll cast over our area, our region of what happened with the crash of a UPS twenty nine seventy six in Louisville just two days ago. Three crew members and what I think twelve dead, three of them crew members, the rest on the ground. There's still several more missing, a bunch of people injured. To here's what we know so far.
Of course, that flight to Honolulu when it went down at five point fifteen on Wednesday, it's a MD eleven and two hundred almost three hundred thousand gallons of fuel and a full of cargo bound for Honolulu, and that upon takeoff, striking a petroleum recycling center at one hundred and seventy miles an hour. And there are way more questions and answers to this point as usual, and honest, let me bring in that he's a local commercial pilot.
His name is Ken Reader. Captain Ken Reader. Welcome back our aviation expert this morning on the Scott Sloan Show.
How are you good?
Good morning, Scott, Yeah, have said, uh, say a turn of events here, and uh yeah, I'm happy to talk about it. It's very tough.
For the aviation community as a whole on this one.
Let's let's set the scene here a little bit too. And you've flown in and out of Louisville many times. It's most people kind of have an idea. That's the worldwide air hub for UPS. Not just the worldwide hub, but also it's their training centers, their training facility. There's like five million square feet around there and there are two million package that's just the processing let alone, the commercial field and the private aviation area as well. So it's there's a lot going on at that field.
Yes, there is. It's uh uh UPS has such a large footprint there and uh this is this is going to affect them. But you know, just the accident as a whole, an accident like this is uh throughout history. There's a few of these that happen now and then, and it affects all of the airline pilots, all of the pilot, but airline pilots specifically, because we put a lot of time into trying to mitigate train for an event like this, and some things you just can't train for.
And this is one of those events that all the commercial pilots are looking at it and say, now the engine came off the aircraft and that opens up a whole.
Lot of questions.
Yeah, most casual passengers that fly nervous when they land because you know the ground's gonna be got penny, Oh my gosh. The worst, the most dangerous areas. Any pilot like yourself will tell you is going to be takeoff. And so let's let's go through that. During the takeoff role. What what did you see happen here?
Yeah, so specifically for an airline jete, but this is small aircraft too. There is a time that right when the airplane leaves the ground for a number of seconds, maybe minutes, that there is uh, you've got a lot of risk, you know. There's we have little options as pilots on what we can potentially do to save ourselves, save the aircraft. These are rare events that I want to make sure that's clear.
In this particular.
Case, when an aircraft is moving down the runway, we take into a.
Whole lot of thoughts.
And planning into that takeoff environmental concerns, whether the aircraft weight, how much fuel we got with the length of the runway. There's a lot of factors. This is all plugged into let's call it a computer, and the system then gives us a takeoff number that we will leave the ground with, and it's an air speed, and the airspeed we call it V one. V stands for velocity and one is just that particular moment how the aircraft is set up.
When the aircraft reaches V one, if we have a problem prior to V one, we can put on the brakes. All we got come to a complete stop. We'll stop on the runway and we'll figure out what the problem was after that. After V one, we're still not ready to fly yet, but we're so far down the runway that we can't stop. In that case, the air does take off, and we can take off on one engine. The air big transport category airplanes, which this is one of the aircraft can fly on one engine.
It has to that much power.
So this airplane had three engines, so it lost one third of its power. It should have been able to fly. And that starts to bring in all the I don't know the questions and the right there's so many people trying to come up with their own thoughts on how this.
Yeah, yeah, and there's you know, and that's a critical thing is V one And bringing it back to that, it's a whole bunch of factors going in the cocular. It's the way, it's the runway length, that's if the runway's wet or icy contaminated, temperature, prey. A whole bunch of factors right in what that how many knots of takeoff speed is? But as I understand it, ken once you hit that mark, that's it's either go or no go. Once you're pass V one, if you have engine fail or you power through it.
Right, it is it is a go. And that what is the event that airline pilots, specifically corporate pilots, we all go through this scenario every training episode that we have throughout our career, so we all understand what is going to take to fly an airplane that you got to kind of think that the symmetrical thrust that would bring you forward is now coming off of one wing or the other and you have to compensate for that and how you do that. But like I said, we
trained for that all the time. In this case, there's some factors that are unexplained. You know, the engine leaving the airplane, that's something we don't train for. We can't train for. And and actually there is an airplane that this happened to, and it was a DC ten. Happened in the late nineties or late seventies and the American Airlines Flight one ninety one. It's left engine came off the aircraft after departure out of Chicago. And the DC
ten and the MD eleven are sister airplanes. The MD eleven is the more modern version of the DC ten. So scenarios like that, I'm sure we're engineered out of the airplane, so that wouldn't happen. So what happened on this one? But then the investigators they are going to take weeks and months and probably years to find out exactly what the cause was.
Typically you don't see that where the engine separates from the pilon, which is what holds it to the wing, and you see some of these videos it's completely gone at that point, and that is such an extremely rare occurrence. Said, there's no way to prepare for that, because if you think about it like it's like one of the wheels of your tire. You know, your tire falling off on a car. All of a sudden you're driving in that engine's gone. It throws the way to the aircraft off.
The wing starts to dip down. It's not asymmetrical, which is you know, a trade anymore. And that really is what you don't see it in the video in the seconds, but there's no way with that gone it could have got off the ground. But there's there's two other engines, as you mentioned, did water. Both those have to fail for this to occur.
You know, there there is some questions out there about the right wing engine and uh there's uh we call it compressor stall. It's when the air coming into the engine with the fuel mixture is not right and the engine will it's called kind of like a backfire in a way, but it reduces power a little bit. There's some question out there. There's some flashes on video showing that maybe it was encountering that that would be that reduction and thrust that may be part of the reason
that they couldn't keep the airplane flying. But that's all speculation at your point.
Sure, but you think is that because with the engine leaving the left wing being separated. Does that clause like, I don't know some of the hydraulic lines and like to are they completely separate in that case, because did the one engine take the other one out?
We'll cause the compressor to stall.
Yeah, there there is common systems between the engines, but there are very few and you know, hydraulics and and anything that would drive that engine would be separated from the from the engine that the part of the airplane. Now that doesn't say that the debris coming off the other engine didn't cause some other related you know, emergency items or even debris going into the intake of the other engine for all we know. So there's a and and the investigators are going to figure out all of that.
But you know, just to go in the investigation side of it a little bit. There's going to be a preliminary report that will come out probably in about two three weeks. This is a very notable different accident, so it may take a little bit longer, but there'll be a preliminary report that These are a few things that we already know from the black boxes. You know, if one is a voice recorder and the other one is is data aircraft set up and all those kind of
things that they'll they'll compare the two. They'll learn a lot from that, and then from there it's going to be kind of a slow chug to try to narrow it down to exactly what the causes.
He is, Captain can read a commercial pilot of Cincinnati. He's flown a long time.
Let's put it down.
Don't make you old ken me for low a long time. You've seen it all. We're talking about, of course, what happened in Louisville on Wednesday. Now the death holls up to twelve, and that number is actually fluction. I've seen different reports right around twelve. The three crew members for sure that was not survivable. And now people on ground, including a small child I guess, which is just parent's
going to be unconsolable there. There's still some folks missing, and now they're in the recovery phrase of this whole thing. When it went down about five fifteen hour time on Wednesday in Louisville at Muhammad Ali, we're talking to the other element of this thing too, with a plane and speculators of what may have caused this. Because people get concerned because we have CVG here, you've got DHL and
Amazon flying in and out. And you look at this field at Louisville, and if you looked at Google Earth, like I did at the moment of the crash, I noticed, Wow, the initial reports were a particular couple of roads there, and I noticed that there is a big FOURD assembly plant in that area as well. I mean, could you imagine how it hit that. But let's talk about the
field design here too. And a lot of urban area airfields have things around it, obviously for expediency, but you know some in some airports you can go off the runway. Even in louisvill there's some areas where it had not been that particular. One Way seventeen right, there's fields around there too, but it's so built off with industry right up into the end of the where you would lift
off or land. Would they did have a look at that and go man man in the future, maybe it's not a good idea to put these things out close to the runway.
You know, everybody wants their airports is close to there where they live, the center of the city as possible. You know, look Wardy, there's Newark. There's so many airports. I could use it as an example how tight things are midway at Chicago a number of years back, Southwest went over overran the runway icy conditions and went out onto a street. So the field design is a small
part of this. Louisville specifically is a well designed airport, and so it's a matter of bad luck with this one, bad luck for where the runway was or the airport was when the failure happened. And but a field design it plays a I'm going to say a lesser of a role in this particular crash.
Yeah, as I look at this too, Ken, the other problem here is, and it's just speculation that the plane, allegedly this particular arcaft went for under repair for corrosion and cracks back in September. But as I understand too, that they switched the equipment out, I guess two hours before.
Do you know what the timeline is for that? Here?
You know, and I know the airplane was delayed on the ground for about two hours for a left engine issue unspecified at this point. Is so what the issue is? I will say this though you and I talked about this whole few years back when we were talking about the life of an aircraft generally, cargo carrying aircraft are used towards the end of the life of the equipment. You know, this particular airplane was four years old. It came from another airline and was converted into a freighter
in two thousand and six. So the airplane, a thirty four year old airplane is not considered super old. But it goes back to the cycles. Like we spoke about years back, how many cycles does the airplane have on it, you know, how many times does the airplane flight, and what other corrosion or issues are on there. In this particular case, I believe that there was a catastrophic failure
of the engine itself. Whether it blew up, which is very rare, but something caused it to explode off of the wing you know, the mounts that hold the wings. That that's something that would be less like to fail. In this case, I believe it was more of a catastrophic failure.
Okay, yeah, because the latest on this is this plane, this particular aircraft flew to San Antonio on September third and was there til October eighteenth for maintenance issues. A contractor doesn't work on the MD eleven fleet there in San Antonio, so it had been down for service. They noticed a crack string under the center wing of the upper fuel tank, but that's not indicative that, you know,
related to the engine falling off in this case. Is that something that could have been done, or maybe they took the engine offering maintenance it wasn't put back on properly.
Is that a possibility here?
That could be a possibility, And the investigators are probably determined that if they haven't already right away, so that'll come quick.
But if you.
Remember the Concord crash back in the nineties, Concord was taken off out of heat throw. There was debris on the runway. They cut the tire, the debris went up into the fuel tank and all the fuel leaking out the air planting flu for about I want to say, about three minutes. It's been a long time since I've looked at it, but at about ten miles and while they were trying to fix the issue, they couldn't. It
resulted in a crash. This particular crash could be related to something that has nothing to do with the maintenance on the airplane.
It could be.
Something unrelated on the runway. In that Concord crash, they ended up narrowing it down to the aircraft that had a piece of metals come off the aircraft and land on the runway. And that's what the attire whatever.
That's incredible that something like that could take an engine out, I mean literally make it fall off.
That's you. You hear that.
It doesn't really make me want to fly, but you know, we have tens of thousands of flights at any one time, and this is a very very rare occurrence.
What happened here. It just happened to be with a.
Fully loaded cargo aircraft striking the end of the runway and a precise location that involved a recycling fuel recycling area, and the you know what, roughly what is that one hundred and seventy miles an hour roughly a takeoff that's going to be catastrophic.
Yeah, yeah, hundred and eighty six went up to about one hundred and seventy five feet in the air, and you can tell the pilots were working everything they could to try to make the slide. This particular aircraft, the NBA eleven, it's only operated by three cargo carriers in the US, set x ups and I believe it's Gemini and other than that, it's been retired from around the world. The airplane is known as a fast airplane, but it's also known to have a history of crashes through its
lifetime and in the different models. The DC ten before runner to the NBA eleven, which stayed engineering out all the bad habits. Shall I say about the previous airplane, But yes, this is a very rare occurrence, and it has stirred up all the pilots in the business. I mean, we're all talking about it, and you know, I would that should have said, it's gonna be a lot of us going back to the books and saying, okay, so what happens if that were to happen to me? How am I going to get out of that?
Yeah? Is it? You meant one?
Which is the speed you have to get to be airborne? And so either before that you can aboard, after you can't. Is there been cases where you're able to successfully aboard after you hit that speed?
You know?
Yes, yes, there are. There's there's at the end of the runway, there's an emat, generally a surface of like foam or soft material that brings the airplane to a stop. Yes, there are cases that it has worked in this particular case. I believe their takeoff weight is probably somewhere over five hundred thousand pounds.
You know, when you as.
A pilot, when we put the brakes on full max braking, there's some limitations on that. So eventually we are going to use up because we're moving so fast and so heavy, We're going to use all the breaking material. The brakes will then fail because there's nothing left. And now now I'm in a really bad spot. Now I'm a rolling, you know, shopping cart with no brakes. So there's limits on our takeoff configuration and performance because the engineering says
we can't do that. So after V one, yes, we are.
It's very rare.
That I know of somebody that has said I'm gonna stop now. Yeah, if I can't, if I don't think the airplane's gonna fly, I'm gonna I'm gonna take that chance and and bring the airplane to a stop best way I can, because if it doesn't fly, there's I know the answer to the problem right.
Right, And there's not much room at the end of the runway either. You're looking at buildings coming at you as opposed to maybe a field in some trees and then buildings that probably.
Factors as well.
Yeah, very much.
Yeah, unfortunate.
All right, So there's the timeline, you know what, the very latest here with this crash in Louisville. It's interesting here because theres a lot of speculation that I love having you on because you're informed relatively and speculation, and that is Captain Ken Reader, commercial pilot based out of Cincinnati, our aviation expert on the Scots Slump Show.
Can all the best.
Yeah, my prayers go out to the family as the end of the flying community as a whole.
And thanks for having me on.
Yeah, yeah, anytime. All right.
Hopefully we can talk when times are better as opposed to these kind of tragedies right here. But you know, again, for those here, this has got Matt. I'm never gonna it's so rare for things like this to happen. Typically it's more private aviation, you know, the private planes as opposed to commercial. But you got a lot of cargo flying around too, and you don't really hear about these. It probably seems like at any one time, especially here
in Cincinnati, there's more cargo flying around than passenger. And yet you know, we don't hear about these things happening, Oh thank god. But when they do, of course it's huge news. It wasn't that long ago, certainly within my lifetime, where these things were kind of frequent, I believe it or not, and now it's pretty rare, extremely rare for that matter. Let me get a news update in a little reaction to the election from Tuesday and what it
all means. And I've been thinking on this is good, just some good toilet time for me to get some thoughts together. We'll do that at nine thirty five, right after news sol only here on seven hundred WWT. Scott's flowing back on seven hundred WLW. Thanks to you can reader for jumping on this morning. Chris, you're flying out today,
flying right. You know, we've got the delays because of the government shut down which continues, and no after thirty days we start to feel the squeeze a little bit more. We'll see if there's an end in sight. Who knows, who knows how long they're going to drag this nonsense out. I'll tell you, as a smart politician, you may hate the hell out of her, but you got to respect
her game. That would be Nancy Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi announcing her retirement, and say what you will about the woman, but she knows when to get off a sinking ship. It's over first establishment Democrats and Republicans, so that it's kind of over right now. I want to think it's I was planning this already, but with the election of zohanmandamia New York, I can see the writing.
On the wall.
And he won the mayoral races, you know, with just over fifty percent of the vote.
Quomo got forty two.
Curtis Leewag got what seven percent, So even put those two together, you still lose twice as many voters turned out than the last mayor line in New York City. So I often don't care about New York. I care about Ohio, I care about Kentuck, I care about Indiana. But it's going to affect us here in some way, shape or form at some point.
And I know too.
It's just like listening a little bit to Willie and some of the other conservative hosts and all across the landscape. It's you know, people that some people are like beside themselves over what happened in New York City is grave concern, especially with this win because a Marxist, was a lot of communists elected mayor. And now I heard things about stupid voters, and you know, people just want free stuff and other tantrums, and you know, I think you ignore
that at your peril. It's the same histronics after Trump want it's not the fall of the voters. Everyone Hillary lost and oh my god, it's stupid voters and how could you vote. It's the fall of Democrats and Republicans for not offering a better alternative. Trump was a better alternative than Hillary Clinton. We got tired of Trump, but
elected Biden. Biden was worst. You got Trump again, so h and mendam me say what you will about He's the anti Trump, right, He's a progressive Trump, he's a populist. He use social media and had a great ground game to win. He got what a million vote went over a million votes are crying out loud and double the turnout for that matter. And you know, you may despise and hate and disagree vehemently, as I do with what he's about, but he's a force and you've got to
respect and fear that. So you know, And I was watching something yesterday, I reading something, and it's something big it's it's like Trump did right. He turned out people who generally don't vote, they call him low propensity voters, and he turned out people under the age of thirty. We was talking about, oh the young vote, the young vote, vote, vote, vote right, and they never turn out. You got them to turn out, and he got a lot of immigrants
to turn out. And I'm guessing that's probably because of the fear in the backlash immigration and ice and a lot of young professionals are the other things. Well, yeah, they're all freeloaders and we's okay, but what about all the young professionals. You know, I came up during a time when it was a Reagan Revolution, and then you had a lot of young professionals discover conservatism in Reagan. And now here you are a couple generations later, and
you've got young professionals who don't see upward mobility. You know, we are sold trickle down economics and all that stuff.
How did that work? Eh?
But upward mobility in their future, they don't see it. These are people that have college education, they have student loans. They see rampant inflation, they see the outrageous cost of living. I think, what's set people over the edge was just a few months ago. The meme going around was, there's just like an average men thirty dollars sandwich in New York. We're not talking like kats Is Deli or something like that. We're talking just a regular bodega sand would you're like thirty dollars.
It's outrageous.
The cost of living there has always been outrageous, even more outrageous today. And you know, you have people in their thirties forties with roommates, you have healthcare issues, you have all that weighing down and even so, you know, it's honestly just a bunch of freeloaders and dead beats. And I get it. There's an appeal to that too, as having someone else pay for what I want. And he comes out with free buses and free childcare, and we're gonna freeze the damn right rents too. Damn how
we're gonna freeze the rent It's it's the mirror. It's the opposite, the other side of the coin of Trump's promised to end inflation, bring back manufacturing through tariffs, and make government more efficient. He just sell on the socialist side of populism is what this is and you know, as someone certainly who leans a lot more right than left, and someone who is a he understands capitalism and free and open markets and libertarianism.
You know what you got.
Trump's got to do something here otherwise, and I think you probably are because we live in a copycat world. You know, anytime you have something successful, there's a rush to copy it, and it's never usually as good as the original. But in this case, you're gonna have a bunch of mom donnies in places like Frisco in LA and Chicago and Seattle, and God knows right, because there's gonna go out. It worked in New York, I'll try
it here. And that's where you should be a little concerned if you live in southwest Ohio and Indiana and Kentucky. And now's the time to focus on the commony, Okay, not Gaza, not Greenland, not not Ukraine. He's off the national guarden ice. This is what you got to focus on. And I fully I understand because I have kids that are thirty years older, under the age of thirty and right around that age, and they are completely disconnected from the economy, like they don't.
Know that they're scared to death.
And in the long run, you know, I see what the promises are, and it's easy to make fun of the free buses and free carre and we know it's how's that gonna end? It's not gonna end well, because you know, we've seen this before. We've heard that before. If you're old or older, you may recall like the nineteen seventies in New York and I was just a baby then, but having grown up in that state anyway, on the other side of it, you kind of could see the effects of that.
I mean kind of knew. You know, at that age you have a sense that something's not quite right.
And I just remember as a kid, like when I watch the Yankees or something like that, they show shots of the Bronx burning and things like that, and you know it sticks with you. And so the idea that he's going to freeze rent, I was like, Okay, it sounds great because I can't afford rent anymore and we're going to force rent control policies and okay, well I'm a landlord now and I'm old, so I like, okay, well, first thing I see is that am I going to
put money back into those properties? No operating costs are going to go up. I mean, let's face it, inflation is bad taxes, property taxes, Like if we did, then Ohio, I'm looking to wait, I've got all these proper taxes that are going up. I've got escalating energy costs and things I have to pay for, the cost of goods and materials are going up through the roof. That now cuts into mind. I can't raise the rent in order to make a profit in order to cover that.
And so what do I do? I guess I could sell the property.
But if you do that, you're going to have everyone selling their property, which makes the property valuable. So what happened in the seventies when they did this is landlords just simply abandoned their properties. They couldn't afford to maintain them. They're getting nailed by the health department because you know, hey, hey, I need a new stove. Okay, well what's that five
hundred dollars? I'm making maybe fifty bucks a month because of the frozen rent now after a period of time, so you know what, you're not getting a new stove. And they complained to just and people literally and then at one point in the seventies they were doing. They're hiring arsonists, like the best job in New York was a professional arsonist. So you burn the building down, get
the insurance money. And so that's why you saw the Bronx burning literally is because landlords are paying people going, I can't afford because of frozen rent, I can't afford to have this property anymore. I can't sell it because there's no demand for it. No one's going to buy this, and so they let the match And what does that do to the quality nambers? The same people you're trying to help and lift up out of poverty, you're actually hurting because the tax base goes away, and now you've
got blight. And that of course lots to the Renaissance with Juliani and that you know, times squares and mass Its all a mess, and they turn the thing around. In addition, I mean now you have, instead of more property which makes her cheaper, you have less property. You're not incentivizing people to invest in New York City. You're disincentivizing them. And when landlers can't charge market rate, building new rental housing becomes less profitable. It's just it's simply
not going to happen. It's basic economics, one on one. But if you're around thirty and you're desperate and you simply can't afford anything, I understand the everyone wants something for nothing. We're nation of all of us. I don't care if you're on the right or the left, young, old, doesn't matter. We all want stuff and we want someone else to pay for it. Right, I mean, I get a mortgage production. If you have a house, I do too, Right, I get a break for owning this thing. Should you? Well,
it's all debtal. But everyone has some sort of subsidy in their life. And it's not a subsidy when you're getting it. It's always a subsidy when someone else is getting it, which is part of the problem. And that's just the housing thing, you know, talking about what was the other thing? At grocery stores, I don't know how you have a government run grocery store be successful. The only one I can think of would be if you're on a military base, we have stores.
The FED I.
Forget what it's called not I want to say fed X. It's not fed AX, it's fed something fat. Anyway, Essentially there there you can go buy. You have to you know, prove that you're a member of the military, active military, and you get stuff extremely cheap. I mean, the prices are insanely good. But because it's run by the government, there's no profit incentive, and so you're not going to get you're not going to innovate. You operate at a loss. And that's just you know, for the military. And I
get why, because then we should do that. I'm not knocking it having some of the other p x's and things like that. But if you rose that, if you if you launched that in a city like the sides of New York and brought that up to scale, how many millions, if not billions of dollars would you lose over the course. It's just it's insane to think that a government run store can come in and offer people food and medicine and everything at cost. Someone's got to
pay for that. Same with you know, free buses. I don't if you just simply have buses open to everybody and you have a homeless population New York, won't the homeless people just go on the bus?
I mean, we kind of saw that.
And since he with the with the street car or some degree, you're talking about the largest public transpation system in the United States, public transportation to the buses and subways. If you're gonna make that free, that could be a problem, but not as much as the rent thing, because that will absolutely decimate it. But the problem is that these are lagging indicators. If you do that, now, it's gonna take a while for the wheels to fall off that cart.
It's not gonna happen. Okay, he's gonna do this, and it's gonna it's gonna collapse.
It's not.
It's gonna take a few years. But by then that pendulum is already in motion. And how to stop it and bring it back the other way. It's gonna it's gonna cost a fortune, you know, if somebody voted for him, I mean the long term. I look at this guy, it's just it doesn't work. His models don't work. But he's promising these grandiose things. As I said, my observation is a casual political observers. He's like the anti Trump. I mean, look at all those promises. Trump, I'm gonna
end the war on day one. Well, here we are over a year back in and we still have the Ukraine War going on. And he threw a lot of stuff at the wall, and I think we all knew his voters going, you know, if you could do a few of these things, great, some of the bigger ones like the terriffs and the economy and many you're gonna bring manufacturing back in less than four years? Probably not, But we just want some hope, that's all. And I
think that's what Mandammi's offering. He's open and offering people hope. You don't know, we're not thinking through going could.
You really do all this? Can you really end the war on day one?
No?
Well, can he offer? Can he freeze rent? There's also a saw this too, the rent control policies there is they have like a nine or ten member Rent Guidelines board. He appoints those people. That's really the only thing to control. That's the one I like if there's a good shot at it, the freezing the rent. He be able to pull that one off. But yeah, some of the other stuff, the buses and the MC it's all controlled by the state, so he doesn't have a bigger hand in that. But again,
it's that populous thing. I'm gonna do all this stuff and you're not gonna pay for things. It's gonna be great, it's gonna be nervana just to let me and then you have to govern and we'll see if people don't go back the other way. So you know, if you're worried about this, you heard about this and you're flipping out because Okay, that's New York City and then it's going to be in Chicago, and that's going to be in LA and that's going to come to Frisco, and
then it's going to come to Cincinnati. You know, I'm sure you're going to see some copycats, but I'm not sure this is really what's we need.
Less regulation is what we need. That's the problem.
Subsidy in too much government is causing everything to be too damn expensive. And we also have to get back to tying. I don't know how we do this with corporate America and you know public company, publicly traded companies of course, and of course all the people throwing their money and they had and private equity. And that is GDP has to keep up with wages. There was one time in America where GDP and wages were connected as
our gross dometic product. And that means companies in our money, the workers made more money, and that hasn't been true since the nineteen eighties. And now this is why we are where we are, and that's very true. How do you get back to do them paying a market rate that's fair and equitable for workers. And that's not socialism or Marxism or anything. That's just you know, people can't afford the product they're making or the service they're providing.
That is a problem for economy and it's been going down this way for a long time. And we're seeing the fruits of that. And I think regulation all that stuff that we talked about, and certainly those are supposed to do that, and it didn't that taking all those hamstrings away and all those roadblocks and obstacles is going to make the economy hum But unfortunately we have the current system that's set up that encourages more of those things. Despite the fact how well we talk about getting rid
of them. Oh, we have just as many, maybe different roadblocks getting where we are. One of those right now is the government shutdown at this point where you have Trump saying, well, and now we got to end the filibuster, and at some point somebody's got to just go look we got to figure this thing out. We've got to get this thing done and move on and negotiate healthcare whatever the hell it is. But again, that's just more subsidy.
No one has a solution of the healthcare crisis, and more of the same, which is why the more desperate, the more things like that happen. That's why people are attracted to Mandami or Trump for that matter. It's going to be more populist kind of governance. Now, saying and governing are two different things. So we'll see what happens. But Nancy Pelosi today's smartest person in the room because she's getting off that sink and ship she sees what's coming goes. I'm done. I want no part of this.
It's over for establishment politics. Good luck with that, Good luck with that. I'll get a news update in in just about six seven minutes here on the Scot Sloane Show on seven under WW. One of the big things that came out the election, in addition to city council here in Cincinnati staying all Democrat charter rights did not take a bite at all out of things. And I know maybe some men DOMI parallels to that. I'm not
quite sure in one of the issues. And I had Sean Murphy on CPS Superintendent on yesterday's show at this time, talking about the success they had with the levy, which it passed, but not only just passed, it passed overwhelmingly because voters I don't live in Cincinnati may not either, but they see progress being made, they see things change, and she made a good case for that as to
why CPS deserved the money yesterday. I give her credit at Tarnowski's here the study in school choice, it's another big issue going on.
We do it in Ohio.
There's a problem though, because as you know, we have school choice, but the funding has always been the issue. You know, property taxes, and we're seeing the property taxes go through the roof and that's also part of the problems I mentioned. But school choice is starting to take a root in America, and I think these things are related to because you look at CPS and it used to be Okay, here's your building, here's when you go. And now you know, we've added Montosori centers that are
bringing back up shop in schools and things like. There's alternatives to you can stay in CPS but find the school that's right for your child.
That's really not that wouldn't happen it wasn't for school choice. I don't think.
I mean, it seems like we're moving that direction. But the school choicing is, hey, we better sharpened. And again, competition is what we're talking about here. Mondami doesn't want that, but competition is making the public schools, like CPS public schools better. It's taken a long time. You're also fighting a horrific abbsence rate and a whole bunch of other problems that are unique to urban schools for sure. But voters said, hey, you know what you're making move in
the right direction. I'll give you credit. We'll give you some more money renew the level as a renewal on top of it, wasn't like Lakota that was asking for half a billion dollars. Nonetheless, school choice, we'll talk about that coming up with Ed Hearnowski next on the show, Why it's spreading and why it's good for schools overall when it comes to competition. Next on the Scotts Loan Show, I'm the Home of the Best Bengals coverage off this week.
Fortunately during on offic hopefully no one gets hurt and we don't lose. Can the defense give up less than one hundred yards total offense? How about one thousand yards total offense in a bye week? We need a break? I think we do Scott's loan seven hundred WW since now do.
You want to be an American?
Slowly back on seven hundred WLW.
Something we do in Ohio is going into a heated nationwide showdown, if you want to call it that, over whether taxpayer dollars should follow students right, portable funding, backpack funding, you want to call this, So we called it here in Ohio.
The concerns are about budgets, accountability, curriculum, and it seems like school choice is becoming universal so so far now six new states have added that choice nineteen overall, including the Buckeye State, and only two of the new programs have full funding guarantees. That's a rub so here in Ohio to bring up to speed. If you're aware of this, or maybe you're Kentucky and the Inn or somewhere else, we did universal school choice for K through twelve. It's
sort of with near universal access. The problem is we don't have universal funding, and that is the issue We spend over a billion dollars in private school vouchers this year and joining the show, he broke this down with the future where it's going is Ed Tarnowski. He is with ED Choice, where he's a policy and advocacy director.
Ed.
Welcome, Ario, Thanks.
For having me on.
I'm doing very well.
How about you.
I'm doing fine.
This has been a battle in Ohio for a long long time, I mean decades that the state Supreme Court found it unconstitutional and legislature pretty much ignored this whole thing. We moved to the school funding choice, where it's universal, it's backpack, take your money, it's out, you're eligible, you
can go where you want to go. But we still have the funding question, which looms it's head during elections like we're having and where you know some areas are are taking millage off their levees and saying, well, we're going to replace that with a a one percent income tax. Let's say a lot of areas are doing that now
because the funding model is broken. Is that true elsewhere or is that because we're kind of a trend sitter here in Ohio on this we're one of the first states to do it, or one of a painful of full states to do it, but the funding question is the big outlier here.
M hm. Well, I think one of the things that that's part Ohio's bastor programs from a lot of the other school choice starts from the country is well one. It still is about your and most states are moving toward education sagess accounts, giving families more flexibility and how funs can be fun can be spend. But since Ohio has had such a long history of school choice, the legists are opted for just expanding existing programs instead of
creating a new one. But we were hoping to see Ohio move toward more flexible system in the future, where you know, families con centered on things that in far school tuition, like tutoring, therapies, curriculum, things of that nature. When it comes to the funding, Ohios, the program that has universal ability where all families can apply, still still fall short on funding and it's actually tiered by my income.
You will get more, you will get less money for vouchers the more the more income, the higher your family's income is. And one of the reasons is so problematic is because it really falls short of creating maximizing a robust martiplace of education. We want to see you know, we're not means testing for your local district school for example, NOLLA and whatever experien conversation. If you can, if your kids can attend your local district school.
So why are we doing this?
The school choice should really be on the same footing. It's just a way of rethinking public education.
Yeah, and overall the argument has been, well, this is public money and you're destroying public schools and you're given the private enterprise who can do what? And there's no accountability here whatsoever. But where's the accountability that's led to the state of public schools right now? Where we're celebrating, Hey, we're now we have a D average. Now we've got a D on our state report card for example, and wow, that's the first time we've been out of f in
twenty years. And we're now celebrating this and we've got momentum. And then they change the standards for measuring how the schools are with report cards and we do this all over again. I think people are wise to it. I don't understand how that destroyed. How does competition destroy anything? Competition makes us better. That's a problem with anything where there's no cop healthcare is a great example of that.
Oh absolutely. And what we're seeing is school choice is introducing a whole new type of accountability into American's education system that for so long we haven't had because you know, the parents or kids are unsatisfied that they're not being served properly by their school. When it comes to private
school choice, parents can just walk away. And if no times walk away, right, and the public school system is it us parents walk away or or they're struggling, or they're you know, the students are struggling, the school just gets more funding. We're not really seeing that type of accountability. We're just seeing more money thrown up the problem. And clearly we're seeing the district school system that's not working.
To look at Baltimore, for example, one of the highest funded school districts in the country at we've had years, are not one student with proficient in reading right, And that's just accept horrible.
Although it's a different problem, right because if you look at the traditional typically the urban schools are the ones that do poorly. At Tarnowski suburban schools or my kids went to school now there's taxes are higher, obviously because property taxes. With the bill, we have plenty of suburban districts if people will flock to to send their kids to. You know, I I don't think that's going to change
based on these models, right. It seems like this is going to hurt the urban areas and maybe rural areas more.
Well. Yeah, and you know, I'm assided to the public school myself. I was lucky enough to go to a good district school. But and the thing to take away here is, you know, families right out of the current system. We do have school choice for people who can afford it. You can go ahead and take your buy a house in a higher performing school district. But if you can't afford to do that, then you're stuck in, you know,
those lower performing schools. So right now we have school choice in places about in places that are just relying on the district school system. Still we have school choice for the rich that people can afford to get up and move and buy a Mark Smith's house and a Marksmen the neighborhood. But if you can't, you can only go to your local district school. It is you will really be arrested if you're trying to send your kids to a school in a different district outside of these
arbitrarily drawn lines. So right now we have school choice for the rich and true school choices, you know, open competition, allowing anyone to take the funding set aside for their kids and take it to the school that steps for them.
Yeah, it's to show all full circle.
We'd come back in when it was fifty four, when we had the fight over segregating schools, Brown versus Board of Education, where all you want to do is send his daughter to the school that was literally across the street or down the block from whether they've instead of busing or across town because of the color of her skin. And now here's twenty you know, in the everwhere we live right now, we have kind of the inverse of that. It's like, well, wait, the school that's down the street
for me is terrible, it's underperforming. There's a better performing school, you know, maybe it's a private school across I should be able to send my kid there if I care about their education.
Well, of course, And it's we talk about systemic racism. I mean, some of these just for school lines are often I mean arbitrary is run decades ago and often now with the best intentions in mind, and yet we're seeing them just send it substaunchly and often blindly without thought for with the reason being, you know, this is how things have been done, which I think are some of the most dangerous were in the English language. It's
just it's time to rethink public education. I think that pandemically opens to a lot of minds, and I think what we're seeing with school choice sweep humnation is that I think it's the most significant education reform that we've seen that the civil rights movement. And that's why getting these details very so important because that school choice continues to increase and we're seeing more and more states and race.
As we've talked about universal eligibility, we want to get that funding right too, because if you know, if every state can make all kids eligible, they're applying for a program, but if they're not all funded, then as a truly universal we really are we really maximizing the education reform that we can see the change that we can see.
Ed Taranowski is with the ed choice and we're talking about the growing number of states that are moving towards school choice programs.
We have it here in Ohio.
The problem though, of course, is we are universally eligible to do it, but there's no universal funding and that has been a problem in Ohio for a long time, regardless of what we're doing. We spend over a billion dollars on vouchers last year this year, and that gets less than ten percent of residents. I think there's like a well over a million and a half students in the Buckeye State. What would that cost to fund that?
Well, I don't have the numbers on the top of my head. However, what I will say is and Ohio's fundy mechanism isn't necessarily one of the worst. The problem as that I see in Ohio is that how it's you know, the funding is tiered based on income. We want to see three university, want to see all families able to access because you know, the more competition, the more small competition for seing, the more we see improvement, honest to the education system as a whole.
Yeah, we have in Ohio. It's like eight different private school choice programs. That's it's pretty fragmented. Does that hurt the goal of universal access?
Yes?
Well Ohio, Yeah, yes, we talk A lot of us did a choice because One of our big projects every year is BBC's School Choice where we break down the details of every single school choice program in the country. And Ohio is always a long one, but yeah, I mean Ohio. I think the reason they have so many programs, one of the reasons at least is, you know, Ohia has one of the longest histories of having school choice,
private school choice in the country. Ohio on Wisconsin were kind of where the modern school choices was in was born. Where we saw you know, regional in Wisconsin's Milwaukee, we saw it in Highos, Cleveland, we saw regionally based small vecher programs designed to serve love forming students of pharma schools and low came areas. So a lot of these
programs have just been around for so long. You know, I don't think it necessarily hurts, you know, if if as long as we do continue to have those programs with universalige ability, I think it's necessarily a bad thing to have programs on top of that. However, you know, I think it's consolidated and just have you know, universal money across the board. Get rid of that the incomes here,
then it may not be necessary. Uh. And what we are seeing as I kind of touched upon earlier, is Ohio is a big boucher state, not an education Safety's account state yet, so one thing where it does fall short quite having so many different docture programs, Ohio doesn't have a robust education stavit's account program or funds can be spent on things other than private school tuition, right, which we are seeing in those states last year or
this year. Rather we saw a ballot seventy five percent involved private school choice related legislation was related to education savor's accounts. So truly we're moving towards more flexibility for parents.
And we have eighty eight counties in Ohio, and you know, a couple dozen are more than a couple doesn't are highly populated, but typically you know Ohio, we have a lot of rural communities. Does this apply to them and do they get squeezed out or result of that?
It absolutely applies to royal communities. And there's there's a couple of big reasons for that. I mean number one is, you know, one thing that we're putting together and we've done for some states in the Path to Dad Choices. We call it the the roadmap, and you'll see that generally speaking, people are much more closer to a private school options than they realize. I say, in Georgia, for example, I think it's like which has a lot of rural areas.
I think over like ninety percent of people within fifteen to twenty minute drive of a private school, and two even in those rural communities where they do have maybe fewer options. In some other areas, the glory of choice and a marketplaces of education is you're going to see new education providers come up. In Arizona and Florida, for example, which which have now both had true universal educational choice for some time now, and then they have a history
of having school choice prior to going full universal. We've seen massive increases in the number of education providers, in number schools. You know, different entrepreneur entrepreneurial ideas for education, but we're seeing a record number of new education providers popping up as a result of this market of education that's been formed with in a system where the money is calm and the child and it's truly universal everywhere.
He's at Taranowski with the Edge Joys talking about school vouchers in the whole program. Ohio is one of the newer states, and one of the first states to do this, or maybe not the first, but we're kind of in the mix. But now nineteen states total are offering this, and many more look like they're head in this direction. The other aspect outside of rural communities that this is going to affect is the fact that a judge in
Franklin County recently ruled that the voucher program's unconstitutional. That's the other part of the problem, and that's part of the process or constitutional challenges in lawsuits. But it seems like it's difficult to get a measure on or even move with the universal of eligibility question as the funding mechanisms get fought and played out in court.
Yeah, wells, as we often jokes, many dead taxes and teacher unions or others doing once private school programs are extended to pass. It's certainly not the first time that we've seen off. We continue to be be confident that school choice is legal, particularly especially at the federal level.
You know, the state court. This is going to play out in state courts, so it is we will see how it goes, but we certainly hope that families will continue to be able to access abroad this broad choice program.
You know, what should and what should we do relative to funding? I mean, what give me an example of where it works and how they do it, because here it's it's property taxes and we have levees, and then we have some areas are pulling the levies back and we're doing income taxes, and it's just a it's an un going to mitigated disasters. It's been going on since almost as long as I've been voting no.
It's a great question. And I'm going to talk about New Hampshire as an example because this year we were considering them the star of this year's legislation school choice legislation and when the Hampsters program does so. They had had their program since twenty twenty one and it started with an income liment, similar to what many of Ohio's programs started with. And this year they went forward and looked at an income liment, so now it has universal altibility.
What said the Hamphurd part is as even talking about it has one multiple of uses. You can use the funds on the varying educational expenses. But the main part here is that funding mechanism. The Hampshire's Education's Freedom Come program ties its funding mechanism to the stage education funding formula, so that money that's already set aside to educate each
kid follows each kid. So instead of creating a new appropriation or revenue stream here, it's just it's tapping into the funding already set that the state already sets aside for people on average to educate them. So we're seeing it choice to putting on the be put on the
same footing as just your schools. It's just rethinking public education as I mentioned, and this is really and they sort of and there's no teering on income based on on how much you get you know, each each students participating that gets the average for people funding it's too after all, it is the money set aside to educate them. They would not get less if they were in a disious school. So it's truly putting it on the same
footing as a schools. I think that's been great. Or like I said, for a bus marketplace for education, you get more competition and more competition because more entrepreneurship, more people coming up in new schooling models, and we send more improvement on the system across the board.
Yeah.
Yeah, because right now. I mean, I think it's less than ten minus. I said, eight to nine percent of Ohio students are participating even though they're all eligible, and I think it's going to take a while for that to catch up. It's going to take a generation for this to be common. But the funding thing is what's got to be addressed initially at Tarnowski with ed Choice, Thanks again for jumping on this morning, appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on.
Interesting how this is, you know, spreading to other states right now, the idea that hey, if public schools are failing, we have an alternative. Now, yesterday I had the superintendent of CPS and Studio Sean Murphy. They're making some great improvements, and certainly not all schools and CPSS such a big urban districts, it's got problems or failed schools. The report card is still a problem, Attendance is still a big problem.
Right but voters overwhelmingly supported a renewal levey for CPS as a result of that, so they're obviously, you live in Cincinnati, you're satisfied with the progress. But you know, if I'm not, I'm near a school where my kid would go and it's terrible, and I want to do better by them. I should be allowed to send them
where I want to in a better performing school. And I think the school choice models actually affected public schools that way because you have monosories and all these different types of schools or ways to teach kids that you didn't have before.
So competition is good. That is the bottom line. Got a news update on.
The way, and then our health and fitness doctor is here, doctor Sanjay, dealing with the time change. Still, he's got some ideas for you to help you out. Next on the Scots Salon show seven hunderd w Clonia, I'm seven.
Every Thursday morning. No, I've got a new segment here.
It's kind of healthy food and fitness, but not that pushy like you know, you're not allowed to eat carbs the rest of your life kind of stuff. Sanjay Scheva Cremani's a physician in Cincinnati. Air doc also is the health minded guy here on the show. So you know on Thursday good time to check into it too. And I know that this is the time of year especially, I know some people are really struggling here at work when it comes to the time change.
I know, the older I get the worse it gets for me, it happens to us.
It's happened to me too. In the in the beginning of my career, when I was working overnight shifts, I could just you know, I could rip off three or four in a row. And now one or two max is what I can do, and I'm just a mess for another fire. Absolutely, Yeah, it's not getting any better. Why why is that?
I think we talked about it was sleep, So is why am I getting up at three or four in the morning and just like I'm wide awake?
Yeah, it's it's part of that. But also it's our body is tuned to be on the same cycle all the time, and so you know, even an hour difference makes a huge difference to our bodies in general. So when we throw anything off at all, our hormones just go a little bit haywire and we just feel in a fog. It's like being jet lagged, essentially. But with that only that one hour time difference, it makes a huge difference. All right, So how do you combat this?
I mean, it's you know, here we are on Thursday already, and that happened on Monday. Sunday was fine.
It's like a it's great, Oh yeah, that's ver asleep, awesome, and then Monday hit and it's like I'm still in the RUD a week later.
And that's typical. So it's like five to seven days to get back to normal, which you'll find even when you travel internationally, the same kind of thing happened. There are a couple of things we can do, but I still want to start with the fact that I am so grateful that I did not work Saturday night this year. There is nothing worse than it looking at the clock at one fifty nine in the morning on overnight and then waiting for the next minute and suddenly it's one in the morning.
You get that whole hour over again when you're working. Yeah, I've done that one.
Yeah. The converse is true too, you know in spring, you skip an hour, You're like, oh, I'm almost done with my shift. This this one stinks. So I was off this weekend. But a big shout out to the docks, nurses, firefighters, police, even you know, industrial workers and truck drivers that were out there overnight and had to put in an extra hour.
Yeah, I've had to work that show.
I actually worked at the place one time where I know my time and I was so college but in my time card that they showed me an hour.
So like I worked the next year, ard, I know you did, Yeah I did, time went backwards.
I'm more I worked and actually I had to fight them on It's like it's an hour for God's sake that I was working.
Absolutely, Yeah, it's want to make sure your HR department knows about that whole thing. It's a minor detail. But yeah, to your question about how do we combat that, first, No, you're not alone if you feel like trash for about a week. And that's that's one of my main things always is like just acceptance of yeah, this this thinks. But there are things you can do so that One of the biggest things is actually your light exposure. Okay, and so you know we get we get light at
a different time. Now you would just kind of want to reset your body's clock. What what your body responds most to is sunlight, and so trying to get sunlight at the beginning of the day to say, hey, it's time to wake up. This is the new morning time. And getting that light exposure is the most important step you can do.
Okay, just shine Okay, So it's a happy let to turn a light on when when your arm goes.
Off, turning a light is decent.
Uh.
You know, looking at a screen is not great because of all the distractions, but light and turning on the light is okay. But seeing natural sunlight is what our body responds.
You know, you live in Ohio, Kentucky, a Diana, right, you're not gonna see man.
I grew up in Boston, So okay, I'll take this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Artificial light then will be the or not Florida sun. And you'd like, I mean, right now, it's too late. I know you're supposed to ease into this, but who has time to Okay, set your clock fifteen minutes or every night, and then you'll get nobody has that kind of time.
Nobody has that kind of time. And I'm not even sure it works that well to do it just gradually. I think, you know, as long as we have to deal with daylight saving time, and we can we can lean into that a little bit more and talk about it. But as long as we have to deal with that, you know, we're gonna have to deal with the disruptions and the bad health of consequences that come with you.
Yeah, and you mentioned the time shifting and things like that, you know, having traveled this summer through the international dateline, I don't know how people do Like all the P and G people listening and people who travel for sales get buddies.
That do this, like, I don't know how they do it.
I don't.
I don't know how you do it too. I've been doing it myself for twenty two years of my life with you know, shifting times all over the place with my schedule, and I still, like you mentioned, it gets worse with age, and it's just getting harder and harder.
And you know, as far as shifting time zones is one God the higher country of three hundred million people have to change their schedules for this, minus of course Arizona, who is battling this or is already they won the battle, and like the sixties, and they don't change time.
When everyone just do that, that seems like should we get rid of this time change thing?
I would say yes. And so nineteen states currently are battling it, and they've passed it a state level, but it's going to take federal approval to make a change. And so that's not that hasn't happened.
To Yeah, I know the farmers, well the farmers, yeah, but they all have headlights on their gear now, so it's not like the old days.
It's a horse and a oh wow.
So here's an interesting thing. It's not the farmers that are big constituents of this whole thing. They actually are anti for the most part. Farmers don't like the time change. They don't like the daylight saving time. This came from kind of the industrial revolution in the in the nineteen tens and nineteen forties, where it was just kind of saving energy so that lights didn't have to be on longer.
Yeah, well wartime. That also during World War two, so exactly.
It started in World War One, it got revamped in World War Two, and we've been stuck in that ever since. Yeah, and now when we're finding is it doesn't even necessarily save energy, and so the question is really why are we doing this? And I'm at a loss because a habit, I think, so it's things are things are just that way.
And there's Indiana where there's areas where it goes back and forth like six times. If you've ever driven to French like oh, you know, like the time changes like six times.
It feels like Dan Kentucky are both kinds of saint with the you know, districts, so I don't know how you live in those areas or like work from home and deal with people on the other side.
Down and then the whole times of like people traveling. As I meant, I will say that if you're listening, like, oh man, I've got a fly and there's an app I used called time Shifter, and you put your flight information in it and then actually calculates and tells you okay at this time. Try to take an app stay awake here, get sunlight, take melatone in here, and it does it for like a three day period to ease
you back. It was developed like a I think an astronaut developed the app, and it's really cool.
You've used it.
I tried it, Yeah, what do you think? I don't know. It seemed to work.
I mean I just I usually plow through and just stay up and you know, just to just a natural time and try to you know, stay.
I wonder I can work for my shifts.
Yeah, my I'll go send all over the place call time shifter. I think I think I mean this, you put your flight info and it it knows what times they are. Yeah, but yeah, it's pretty cool. You might to shift a new app and you know, retire for physicians liked son Jay Shiv Carmani's here, he's our health and fitness guy. We're talking about the time change and if it's still biting you, which it seems like a lot of people are struggling with the time change, especially
this time of year. Knowing that, hey, I woke up in the sun's here, but now all of a sudden five thirty, the sun's going down.
It's not gone already.
I'll tell he was really messed up as our dog because he eats at five and now he's at four o'clock. He's scratching at his food bowl, going its time to eat. He doesn't know this time.
It's not like your cat scratching at your head, which is what they typically do too. So yeah, I don't have children, but I know children are thrown off by this whole thing.
Uh.
Yeah, I'm I'm very much in the con camp as far as daylight saving.
Should you do you just your eating schedule with us?
Should you?
Yes?
Do I personally no? But yeah, your time and and where you live and where your body knows it's time is based on light, it's based on food, is based on exercise and movement, and those are the main things. There's a cool word called zite gaber which is a timekeeper, so like an external cue something out in the outside world that tells you what time it is. So some light, exercise, fooding, fooding, uh, food, the eating and food, yeah, exactly, just doing that thing.
But ZiT gabers are so it's a German word and it basically it says, these are the cues that tell you where you are, and so those don't change necessarily, but our clocks do, so things go a little haywire.
Okay, all right, makes sense, all right, So consistent sleep, schedule, all that stuff.
If your struggle, how long typically does this last? If you're really struggling with the time change.
So it'll usually be about five to seven days, but it's going to depend on you know, in general, age is a big thing. How use you are to throwing off your schedule are the kind of the two main things. And then there's the whole chronotypes thing, which I don't know if you've heard of it. So it's basically the time person you are. So there are larks and there are owls. Larks are the fancy name for like mourning people, and owls are the fancy word for evening.
Always hated ark makes sense? What's that I always hated larks.
But here's what I guess.
I used to be an owl and now I'm a lark.
Interesting. Yeah, that that can happen. And so it depends on like how your schedule builds out. But about fifty percent of what you are is based purely on genetics, and then fifty percent is everything else. And so you know, if you're like, oh, man, I'm trying to be a morning person, you may not have any control over that. And so give yourself a break. If you're trying to
be a type of morning person. Even if you do light exercise food in the morning, you still may not be able to combat your owl self.
You may just be a night person and eventually I've become a flamingo. I just stand and sleep on one foot. That would be a skill. You can retire with that skill looking down for shrimp. That's what I'm doing. And the problem is that we get home and I think there's a depression element to it because it's like, oh, okay, work days over and you go, wow, I've got thirty minutes of sunlight maybe or eventually in a couple of months, we'll go to work with dark.
We get home and it's dark.
Yeah.
And so depression is one of the bigger things that we see with the time change, especially moving forward. We see you mentioned it. It gets darker when we're commuting home, and so there's more pedestrians struck and there's more car accidents in general because our bodies aren't used to plus we're exhausted. And then the second part is just in general, as stress goes up and everything that comes from that as well with the Russian anxiety, all of those things
tend to get greater. So not only is it colder and darker outside, now you have a time change too, where it's dark when you leave for work and it's dark when you come home.
Yeah, and we just are also bad sleep as we That was our segment last week, we talked about sleep, and this is kind of playing off that this morning with Sanja Schev CREMANI and I don't even even talked about sleep atnel last because just so many Americans are affected by bad sleep it's incredible.
Yeah, and it's getting worse. Did you see this, by the way, the study on melatonin.
I wanted to ask you about that because, as we talked about, I'm a melatonin user and I probably use it more than I should. But now there's a link possibly between melatonin and heart disease.
Yeah, and it was actually a study on heart failure. But using the word study I think is loose, So it's not great. So if you're all alarmed and you have like a stash of melatonin at home and you're you know, scared and either threw the bottle away or thinking about it, just know that the study isn't conclusive. And so basically what it says is, yes, there's a link. If you use melatonin, there is more heart failure. But what we all oftentimes stay is science is correlation does
an equal causation exactly? And so you know there may be something tying both of those together. What type of person uses melatonin a lot and what type of person develops congestive heart failure, those two things may be linked by something else. And so the thought is, if you have chronic insomnia, maybe that's what's leading to you getting melatonin and getting congestive heart failure as opposed to the
melatonin causing it. There's nothing out there that says it's not the melatonin, but I have a feeling it's not. And the study was so it's patients that were prescribed melatonin, and so how many of us have been prescribed melatonin? Like no, exactly, So yeah, we get OTC. So you know, for this patient population, it's not it's not representative of us as a whole. So I think more studies have to be done. But I'm not doing anything with my melatonin. I use it maybe once or twice a week, usually
like one to two milligrams max. And I'm not worried about it. I'm gonna keep using it, yeah, I think.
And that's that's interesting how you point out because people here that they flip out like time on. All right, well, okay, let's look at the melatonin thing for a second. If I can't sleep, well, I'm suffering from insomnia. Okay, try melotone. Okay, I'll try that. Well, I'm taking it. It may help a little bit. I fall asleep, I still wake up.
Maybe it's sleep apnea and you're undiagnosed, and that we know that that leads to heart disease, heart failure, chronic heart failure, and so it's that it's not the melotone.
Exactly, but bad sleep in general. So who's getting prescribed melatonin by their doctor in high enough doses that you need a prescription or in general, it's the people that have received other prescriptions for sleep probably and are getting this now from their doctor to be like, oh, you know, looking for another helper. But these are the versions with chronic insomnia, and like you said, observed to sleep, apnea, chronic insomnia, they're all led to they're all linked to heart disease.
Yeah, that's the thing. It's gonna be a root cause. And that's where you trust your physicians too, is to get you know, and you've got to go to the doctor.
You should be going, especially as you get older, at least once a year, get your annual physical, talk to your physician, find someone you trust and like, and have those problems sorted out, because you know, I wonder how you talk about how many people are getting an accidents and dying and we're talking about sleep and the time change, but so many folks are out there falling asleep behind the wheel and causing problems at work, and we talk
about drugs and all that, but we rather talk about sleep. And that's probably the biggest thing out there, because I'll have to sleep.
Yeah, exactly, And yeah you mentioned it, you know, having a good link with your doctor, but also understanding you know this this news is just breaking. We're all trying to digest it too. I mean the forums online, we're all just like, what do we do with this? Yeah, you know, you figure it out with the melatonin and you parse through it. But there's more to be learned always,
and so maybe someday we'll find something. Yeah, I don't think this is anything to really change your lifestyle about, but you know, I could be wrong, but I think that chance is low.
Yeah, you wouldn't worry a bit. It's not like at the top of your righty going there's probably something else there. But then I don't know what's the responsibility of reporting and issuing these studies. If it scares people into a false belief, that's that's not good medicine either.
Is it.
It's it's not great medicine, but it is the way of the world, right, Like every study now gets shared and and so that's why the internet's so noisy is there's so much data out there and no one knows what to do with it. But certain ones rise to the top for whatever reason, and usually it's because they're alarmist and so things that have surprising results, even if they're not fully founded in in causation, et cetera, those will rise to the top because they get people worried.
And I mean almost every everyone I know uses melatonin, and so of course that's going to be there. I mean, same thing you just mentioned, talent, all, same thing. People will bring that up more because it's more it's it's more pervasive in their life and it's more relevant to them.
Yeah, on the tunnel thing, I mean I probably have mild connection to that, I suppose, but it's kind of like, you know, me with a bad shoulder. It's like, well, I take advil and it didn't wear my shoulder out. I'm thinking it goes my shoulder were out exactly like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right, So with some some tips to help deal with the time change, if you're still dealing with this thing, you should be able to catch up a little this weekend, though, right to get to adjust your schedule if you have a couple days off.
Yeah, it's a good idea to kind of get the rest and listen to your body. So, like we mentioned about the chronotypes and the larks being the morning people, you'll probably wake up at five or six in the morning, and that's your normal and that's cool. Owls have a tougher time. They tend to wake up around nine or ten in the morning. If left without an alarm let that happen too. It's an interesting thing about circadian rhythm,
So what controls our cycle through the day. People have a cycle that's not twenty four hours exactly right, and so we're always playing catch up or a little too far. And it's interesting. We're between twenty three and a half and twenty four and a half hours for our rhythm, and so the weekend's a good time to catch up on those half hours you're missing here and there.
Gotcha all right?
Interesting sign Jay Shiv CARMANI he's a air physician here in Cincinnati, but on the show Thursday mornings, we're a health and food and fitness collide. And thanks again, man, appreciate talk next weekppreciate it stuff Scot Flown Show after news continues coming up in just minutes here kids confronting parents about their addiction issues. We'll get into that one. Zinga Harrison, She's next on the show seven hundred de Wuti other day.
Do you want to be an American?
He's got flown back on seven hundred wt ol Over y Man, we got the problems. Seventeen million children and seventeen million children and adolescents are living with a parent in their household who has a substance abuse problem, alcohol use disorder.
The leading contributor there.
Number two now is cannabis, and I'd imagine that has to do with recreational cannabis being legalized. So, families, how do you identify this? Where do you go for help? Because this is kind of like a to me, like an unknown error. We talk about usually it's addiction. It's going to be a family member. You know, we're doing some of our kids, our sons, our daughters, you know, the whole just say no thing. But if it's like this,
mom or dad, how do you navigate that? And if your mom or dad, how do you how do you get treatment?
How do you do this?
And Zinga Harris is a co founder and chief Medical officer at Eleanor Health here in Ohio, and that's an outpatient addiction treatment program.
Welcome to the show, good morning, Thank you so much, good morning.
Disturbing problem here, and it's an area you really don't talk about, and that is usually it's the kids. You know, they go to school, bad influence, as they said back in the day, and maybe they start experimenting with drugs and alcohol and it gets to be a problem. We often don't talk about the opposite of that. That'll be mom or dad and or dad having substance abuse issues.
And it's in the news from time to time where kids have to be removed from a home because of that, and we just shutter and shake our head and go, my god, it's that.
That's a horrible thing, addiction. But it really doesn't get the attention it deserves, does it.
It really doesn't.
And so the statistics you shared, seventeen million kids are dealing with a parent at home that has a use disorder, as the diagnosis that we use is even likely less, you know, it's even likely more than that, because we're such under diagnosing the condition of substance disorder.
Because, like you've mentioned, the stigma and the silence that we have around it.
Yeah, and what the advent of recreational weed here in Ohio as many other states are are we seeing an increase of that is, are the numbers increasing, are they getting better?
Are they flat?
It's a bit early to tell, but the expectation is that we will see an increase in individuals that have cannabis use disorder. And that's just as you make something legal, then it feels safer to people. And to be honest, like marijuana certainly has medical uses, it certainly is quote less addictive than other illicit drugs we have. But when cigarettes are legal, smoking is higher. When alcohol is legal, alcohol use disorder is higher.
So we expect to see that, Yeah.
And I guess the same would be sure for gambling or anything along those lines, where if you legalize it, you're going to just going to be and which is why you devote some of the money to treatment programs and intervention and you can't catch them all that it's sad, but that's a different argument entirely. So as the situation develops, though, how do you, I guess if you're a kid, especially too, you think that's normal. It's one thing for an adult to go. I think my son or daughter, my middle
school or my teenager. I don't want to say they do, but I've kind of noticed some weird things off putting behavior. It seems like it's almost impossible for a child an adolescent to identify this in their parents. The exact opposite is impossibility to diagnose yourself.
I think, actually, I'll push back on that idea Scott. So it's interesting. I have two boys now they're nineteen and eighteen. But when my oldest was four years old, I went to like it was career day and all of the parents I came in and I went and I spent time in every single grade pre KK, one, two, three, four or five talking to the kids.
I was like, I'm a doctor.
I'm a physician. I specialize on a brain. I take care of people who have addiction. I was, you know, like sprinkling in a little snak. Addiction provision for the kids started at pre K. Kids knew so starting in first grade, as I was like, and here's what addiction is. Literally, the first graders were like, is that when my daddy hides the bottle in the trash because he doesn't want
mommy to see yeah, wow. And in second grade a kid was like, is that like because my dad went to jail and he said he's never gonna smoke again, but then he came home and my mom caught hers smoking. So like ASA's first second elementary school, the children recognize it. But because we can't talk about it, and because it's like so scary and so dangerous to say I think I might need help that there's like and children don't raise those sorts of things to adults. That's our culture, right,
like that's not your place. And so the children really had eyes wide open, and I was like, oh, well, let me Yeah, I don't need to tell them how to recognize the problem. So I was like, well, now let's focus on we're not mad at mommy or dad.
I guess, yeah, I guess that's maybe a way to look at it too, and singer right, is it? Like the kids noticed, but they think, all right, should I
say something? Is it normal behavior? Because you think that's the way adults are, right, And and then you say it's a prime and you go, oh, I put it together, and you know I just had Honestly, you made the hair in the back of my next day and up something I have not thought about in I can't remember when growing up as a kid, my maternal grandfather and grandma,
i'd go, you know, go visit them. They lived maybe a mile from us, and I remember my grandmother yelling at him, my grandfather, and he would and I had I thought it was kind of funny at the time, Like he'd hide bottles in the trash in the trunk of the car and he had I remember him like now that as an adult, he'd like get gasoline on the rag and he sniffed a Huffett when he was driving.
I mean, he he had some and he was driving us around and I remember him getting yelled at by my grandmother and like at the time, you think, why are they fighting? What's what's going on? You know it's not right, but you can't qualify it. And now that you said that, I haven't thought of that in decade. Well, you're really good that It's a really really good therapy for me.
Thank you.
I'm here for you, Scott.
What's my cope on this? By the way, is there.
So?
Yeah?
I mean it happened to me and I was a little I couldn't have been I don't know kindergarten, first grade, and I kind of remember that stuff. But yeah, you're you know, kids are they're a sponge, but I don't just don't know if they identified until an adult says, hey, you know, substance abuse, and are we doing a better job of that in your I mean, you did that in Career Day, But is that something that's coming up in school that kids are you know, being taught to identify.
I can imagine that that is a slippery slope that we don't want our kids turning into little detectives and cops and narcs.
But are we teaching that in school?
Certainly?
So you know, there used to be the program in schools that are still in some schools that actually demonstrated to be can be dangerous. So I'd just say no, approach doesn't equip kids with the information that they need. And so some high school the answer to your question this.
Belt thematically, we are not doing affective drug education and prevention in school. Certainly.
When I did Career Day in elementary school, the principal had no idea that's what I would be doing.
That's nothing like I'm a doctor.
I'll be happy to come talk to kid.
Yeah, but as my kids went to middle school and high school, I stuck myself into their schools that way every time.
And in high school the.
Convocation that I did one was voluntary and packed out the auditorium. So high school kids chose to come. They had to request to sign out seat from class to come. They requested, they come, came to learn about this, and I taught them about craft the R A s F T, which is an adolescent stuff that use to water scream, And I was like, apply this to either yourself or someone in your life that you might be worried about. And if you're worried, you're right. And here's how you
can get help. Here's an online resource. Here's eleanorhealth dot com. If we're in your state, like we are in Ohio, here's a team, you know, support group where you can talk to other people. Here's how to raise the conversation with your parents. Those are the skills that we need to be equipping young people with, is how to have the conversation.
That's stuff we really want to turn the times.
Imagine, yeah, and and take me through that.
If you're a kid, and not that I have a lot of kids listening, but you know, I think if you're pro, I think the approach happens when they're not in a moment where they're engaging in that behavior and doing the addiction is you want.
To wait until they're sober. And but but how do you wordy that? How do you approach your mom or dad and saying hey, I think you have a problem.
Yeah, that's exactly right. So Scott, I'm going to do a shameless plug for my book here. It's called an Addictioned six to mind Changing Conversations that could Save a.
Life, available online and storace everywhere.
And I did that plug because this is exactly what's in the book. Is like teaching people how to have the conversation.
With your child.
There are scripts from preschool all the way to adult child, with yourself, with a friend you care about, with a colleague, et cetera. And the approach is always the same, which is, I'm worried about you, and so what we've done with substance you supporders. And this is our central premise at Eleanor Health.
Also so at Eleanor.
Health where I'm the chief medical officer, we take care of people who have addiction and wrap their families in that process as well. The approach to addiction has been punitive. So either pretend it doesn't exist, or criminalize people, or vilify and punish them for having this really devastating illness that makes people suffer and makes the person who has this suffer and makes their family suffer. It makes the
children that we're talking about suffer. And so the first approach is always I am worried about you, and I think you might have this illness, right, And this is what I'm seeing that makes me think you might have this illness, And I want you to know I'm here to join forces with you against this illness, right, Because usually our approaches.
Like what are you doing?
Like your grandmother was yelling at your grandfather? My grandmother had really severe alcoholism.
Everybody was yelling at her.
Right, And it's like they're already suffering. So how do we approach with compassion and say we see you suffering. No, it's an illness. It is also making us suffer, So how do we join forces to get you from help?
And that's and that's a remarkable to look at rather than the yell, because you know, if you're engaging in the destructive behavior and you feel like you're getting attacked, you're going to go in to shell and probably do
more of that destructive behavior. But it's I think it's human nature to lash out at that moment when they're low, as opposed to fighting your tongue and waiting until they're more I guess, approachable and have there what's about them when they're sober and saying, hey, listen, I'm not going to attack you. Is like I'm just I feel worried when you know you're drinking or smoking or whatever it is. And how do we you know, how do we work through this?
Do you?
And it's really now because you could absolutely push that person away too, which is the last thing you want, right.
That's right?
And I mean I really like what you said. It's human nature because we have to remember this addiction is not just making the person who suffer, who has the addiction suffer. You're also suffering, right, So, like you're in pain and you're scared, and you're sad and you're angry, and it's human nature to laugh out at that time. Unfortunately,
human nature doesn't serve us well in this moment. And so I know it's not an easy ask that I'm making which is like calm down, cowcatin until there's a calm moment, bring it up in the one moment when things are going well and you feel like I hate to ruin this moment. And so this is why we always say, like, get support.
And place for you yourself.
Also, even if your person is not going to treatment, get support in place for yourself, because this illness is also making use.
Of Nazeca Harrison is here. She's co founder or chief medical officer at Eleanor Health. They do outpatient addiction treatment PROGRAMM here in Ohio, and talking about this. It's not often talked about, but there's something like seventeen million children and therefore tens of thousands in our listening area right now listening where children ado lessons are living with a
parent who has a substance abuse problem. Normally we think it was, hey, my kid goes to school and they getting on with the wrong crowd and they become drug addicts or something happens in their life, and now I've got to get help for my kid. And it's just as common to have it the other way, where it's a parent or a loved one that's doing this and the child recognizes the behavior, How do you get that
person the help that they need. I think it's easier from the parental role for a child to intervene, But a child intervening on the half of adult seems really
really hard for them to do and overwhelming. So when this thing escalates, and thing it into a safety situation, a dangerous situation that escalates, that changes a whole bunch of stuff, because that kind of behavior doesn't always happen that way, but as the addiction becomes more and more serious, it does because that person chooses the drug over the family, over the kid, over the What do you do in a situation where it becomes dangerous?
How does a kid prepare for that?
It's so difficult, And I hate to put the responsibility on the kid, right, I know, right, that's so bad. I know, it's so tricky. It's so tricky. This is where other adults in that south life have to take on some responsibility. So I ask people to think of it the same way you think about any other crivent
illness that is riting through their home. So say a parent has a heart attack, or has a stroke, or has a seizure disorder, develop cancer, You hope there are other adults in that south life that can be there as a courss before and one of the things we do human nature with all illnesses, but especially with addiction,
is like not recognize it until it's severe. And so if we can teach kids to recognize kind of the signs before the safety it meant happens and have a plan in place, so if at any point you feel unsafe, this is who you call, whether that's nine one one, whether that's a trusted adult, whether that's you tell someone at school, whether that's a friend's house. This is who you call, This is where you go, this is.
What you say.
Having that plan laid out, this is who you text in twenty twenty five right, having that plan laid out in at van so the child is not having to figure that out in the midst of a crisis. It's the same reason we have airplane pilots, these simulations our crashes. Is why race car drivers practice on the track so that in the moment you don't have to figure it out.
But Scott, what that takes is acknowledging we see that your parent has this illness, and we're acknowledging that we need to put a safety plan in place.
Yeah, yeah, and so it's so sickening and horrifying to even have to talk about that right now with you and Zinga. Do we have And by the way, speaking of treatment, I know that that you guys at the Eleanor here in Ohio, that it's an outpatient edition treatment program. There's you guys doing it, and of course we have the Linder Center here and a bunch of it. But are there enough badgs, are enough facilities to treat this in Ohio?
No, there is a definite lack of treatment access in Ohio, even though they're, like you said, tons of folks that are doing great work. And that's really why we found at Eleanor Health. It is because of this lack of access. And we specifically we're in eight different states, and we specifically chose Ohio because of the high rate of addiction and.
The low access to care.
Wow.
And so one of the things that we do that's really differently we don't have that.
We're outpatients and so you you stay, you're able to go to work, you're able to be at home with your family. And we also serve the entire state of Ohio virtually, and so we have many people who go to work and then connect to us on their lunch break or connect to us before work or they're at home. It gives us access to be able to support the family. It makes you not have to leave for a month and not have wages to be in salary to be
able to support your family. And so it's a full model that really starts with compassion and expertise in this illness of addiction and is empowering people to understand how to live their lives.
Well, yes, I guess you too, as long as you catch it earlier, right, because the longer you're in you're going to need inpatient where you're you know, doing like a thirty day forty day plan or something like that. Whereas if you catch us early enough, you can do as you mentioned, you know, virtual sessions and outpatient treatment and get your mind.
But you got to do it. You got to do it now again and singing Harrison, thanks, yeah, go ahead.
I just wanted to say, make it, make it a sandwich. So people also take thirty days and in your cures. I want people to understand addiction like diabetes. So sometimes your diabetes takes you to the hospital. That's a thirty day residential disorder. So when you get out of the hospital, your treatment of diabetes is not over.
You need a long term partner.
Eleanor Health is that long term partner early before you need the hospital. And also, i'm sorry, a hospital residential, but also long term after you get out of hospital or residential. Sure to keep the illness intermission.
It's the medicine basically, and Singer Harrison, co founder in chief medical office at Eleanor Health. They do Outfai didiction treatment program in Ohio virtually too as well. She has a book called An Addiction Too, by the way, that I just learned about. So and said all the best. I hope to maybe we'll talk again in the future. But thanks again for jumping on the show.
Thank you so much, Scott. You're saving lives with this show. Really appreciated.
Oh you're sweet.
Thank you.
Glad to help. It's a small part.
We got a news update. We'll get to that in just about four minutes here on this Thursday morning. Scott's Sloan Show continues on seven hundred WLW.
The bells.
Do you hear the bells?
It could only mean one thing.
It's real estate time.
With Michelle Sloane Remax, time agent and proprietor of sloan Sellshomes dot Com. Heed her words or face her wrath on seven hundred Wlwige.
Well, it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood?
Is that it is?
I was talking to our health and fitness doctor Sanjay earlier in the show, and we're talking about the sleep thing, and I brought up the story that our dog does not have a watch apparently, and he normally has a five And I'll be damn that dog knows exactly when it's five o'clock, like sometimes a little early, sometimes a couple of minutes after, but within about a ten minute window at the top of the hour, right around between four fifty and five ten, I'll be damned if he's
not poking at as food bowl, dragging around the kitch, go on, it's time eight, let's go. And now he's doing that at four o'clock because he doesn't know the time changed. And I was asking, how exactly do you adjust the food schedule? But dogs Lug's rhythm were me off. It's like he gets all pissed off because he's not getting his food at the right time.
I don't know you were mad at me last night because I went to bed at eight thirty. I said, it's I'm tired.
I don't care. You gotta plow through it. Woman, come on, no.
Eight thirty and she's in bed. I'm like, is this what it's come to? I'm not sleeping, And then the lights went off. Are you you're going to bed?
No?
No, no, I'm just I'm just laying here. Eyes are open, yeah, I my eyes are open underneath my eyelids.
But you'll still sleep till seven thirty.
So I don't understand how I was up this morning at six. Okay, I was up when you were up this morning.
I actually was up in the middle of the night because then, you know, I think I fell asleep for about an hour and then I woke up.
It almost took a pre sleep nap.
Yes, I haven't done one of those for a while, but this it felt like it was so late last night.
Just now when it gets clided me this weekend with the rain coming in and stuff like that, and it's going to get cold, so yeah, that's what we're going to wind up doing. Sometimes, you know, spend time in the house and nest a little bit I got, you know, from moving in August. We still have tons of boxes of stuff to put away, which I'll probably start cracking on this weekend because you know, a little less football this weekend for sure with the buys. So I feel
I want to be productive this weekend. And also it's some people this time of years, like I am inside anyway, I might as well do a little home improvement type of projects and stuff. That leads us in today's topic, Well, it's called fixer upper regret. What to know before taking
on a major renovation. And you know, we have taken on so many major renovations in our homes over the years, over the course of the last thirty years, and it inevitably one thing leads to another, leads to another, leads to another.
So it's not just let's paint the bathroom or something.
It's like, oh, let's rip out the cabinetry and let's put new and let's move this, and let's do that. So you know, if it's be as something or anything beyond just cosmetic, you really have to know what the heck you're getting into because it can't add up financially really really quickly.
I will say that the two biggest one.
The number one biggest one would be a kitchen remodel, having done that before myself, and you know, cabinets and all that, and it takes a while, especially if you're doing it, you know, after work between things. It dragged because you know, the microwave goes another room and you're eating out a lot and it's like, okay, when can I get my kitchen back and get all the cabinets and all that stuff. That takes a while. And the
other one would be a bathrooms. Now, if you have houses, a lot of houses too have multiple bathrooms, you're good. But if you have one bathroom and you're remodeling it, that's a huge problem. So those two rooms right there, you've got to come up with an alternative. And I don't know if you call rumpkey and get a porta potty out back, but now you're doing that, so and where you're going to shower and bathe. That's yeah, I think, which is why a lot of these companies are the
other one day kitchens, the one day bathrooms. That's why, because man, you with one of those two rooms or both those rooms out, you know, you may want to think about getting a hotel while that's getting.
Done, absolutely, So you do have to look at the scope. If you're going to hire it done, it will probably get done quicker. If you're going to try to do it yourself. No, if know your role, as you will say, know what you are capable of, because I've seen so many projects and I know a lot of my contractor friends have said, yeah, my DIY owner tried to get this done himself and now it's costing him double or
triple because of the way it wasn't done correctly. So you really want to ask yourself why why are you renovating? Is it for comfort? Is resale value? Functionality? As we get older, you know you need to put in maybe some don't. You may even need to put in some ramps for the older appearance or something like that. So what kind of project are you doing, what kind of satisfaction are you looking for?
And then what kind of a budget do you have? So setting a realistic budget.
Budget always add what did they say twenty percent to at budget right, because homeowners often underestimate the total cost by between fifteen and thirty percent, So you always want to make sure and be careful. And I know that people have done this too, maxing out your home equity or your credit cards.
You're like, oh, just.
One more thing, Oh just one more thing, or I need it, I need it to be perfect. I want the most expensive light fixtures, and I want the most expensive polls and on these cabinets. And you know, there is a point where you could over improve your property. And when you overimprove, that just means that you are spending more money. Then you're going to be able to get back on that property, and that you know that if you're okay and you're going to be living there, you're going to be enjoying it.
You know.
That's the same thing with like, if you're going to put a pool in your backyard and you're going to enjoy it, it's going to cost some money, but if you're going to enjoy it, and then you may take a hit on resale, you're not going to get one hundred percent back on a lot of your major renovations.
So if you're going to be putting in a new kitchen and new cabinets and new flooring and new counters and all that stuff, you're spending one hundred thousand dollars on your kitchen, but you live in a three hundred thousand dollars home. That's something you really really need to scale back there.
At that point, it's like, well, maybe i'd be looking at a new house as opposed to remodeling spending that kind of money the value of the house I'm going to put just in the kitchen now, grant, I'm sure it's going to be a spectacular kitchen. And the other thing, too, is you tend to not stick with the plan because you see things and like, especially if you're indecisive, contractors up to a certain point, love them and then after
a certain point hate them. Are called change order. So when you have a change order, that adds a lot more cost to the job than if it were factored in the first place, because you're already in the process of doing things and you go, okay, well what if we actually made this a I was thinking to make this a pantry in the kitchen instead of you know, it's just going to cost you more money, and you can you can drive your contractor crazy without those change orders.
You are to drive yourself poor by doing that a lot too. So come up with a plan and stick with it no matter what you see.
Just focus on the finish, and you may not realize, depending on the age of your home, once you get into any remodeling project whatsoever, you may not realize that what's actually behind the walls. Maybe there was another remodeling project that somebody just covered up, or or maybe it was wiring or some sort of structural issues behind that wall.
You know.
You see that on some of those dumb home improvement shows when they're taking their sledgehammer and oh, look, we're gonna take out this wall.
Oh no, look what we found.
I got my skinny jeans, my new tool belt on, my brand new sledgehammer, my glasses, and I don't have a speca dust on me.
How is that possible?
I don't know how that's possible, But yeah, I mean I've had some people, especially with older homes in Cincinnati, tear out some of the ceiling and finding an a massive, enormous, gorgeous ceiling above. And why would somebody cover something like that up? Probably energy efficiency, you know, maybe they had a leak at some point, who knows. But you could find some really beautiful especially in the older homes in Cincinnati.
You can find some really good surprises, or you can fight some really nasty supply.
Some older homes and you know, the seventies were sixty seventies like an architectural nightmare. They come and put these fake ceiling and pull them back. It's like, oh my god, look at this gorgeous eight inch crown molding and they covered their ashes. It's like that wasn't the esthetic then, and now that's all vogue. And you come back and wow, I can reclaim that are floors, you know, you pull that carpet and see these beautiful inlaid floors. They need Yeah,
they need some love and some work. But I've seen people and there's plenty of good companies in Cincinnati to do it, and contract is to do that will restore those floors. Now, it'll cost you a little bit about my god, what a show piece is going to add so much valuable home because it's the original stuff. You can't replace that, like older houses.
With hardwood floors, especially, so many hardwood floors in Cincinnati have been covered up with carpet. And you've got some tax strips, you've got some holes. But for the most part, you know, people felt like carpet was a new thing. It was nice, it was warm. But now guess what the hardwood is back, and that hardwood is real all the way hardwood.
It's not like the veneer that we have today.
So when you have those older homes, like I said, there's there can be some really good surprises, but nine times out of ten surprises will cost you money. So make sure prepare financially when you go into a renovation. If you're going to hire a contractor, talk to a couple different ones, make sure that you're doing your due diligence because the worst thing that could happen is a contractor shows up the first day, starts doing demo and then he or she is gone for three months and
you're left with an absolute disaster of a mess. And we've heard those horror stories as well. So do your due diligence. If you're hiring somebody, make sure that you are understanding the true scope of the work. Make sure that you're hiring someone who's reputable, who's going to show up, who will give you a timeline and a deadline of when it can be done. And then just be careful
to not over improve. Don't try to. If you want the best of the best and you want the high end everything, do you live in a high end home, and does it really make sense?
And that's hard for people to take on that.
Sure, Now, if you're going to stay there forever, maybe you can recoup those costs down the line, I suppose, or if money's no objects.
But that's a very few.
People, that is absolutely And then you have to know when to stop.
You know, if the costs are getting too great, and the project feels absolutely endless, like it's been years and I've had people say it's taken me over a year to get this project project finished, you may want to just pause, reassess, and you know, put a stop to it and stop the bleeding.
You know, I think there was a money pit.
Is that a yeah, there's a move Tom Hanks movie from back in day.
Yeah.
But and especially today as we talk about renovation, regret, fixer up or regret with my wife Michelle Sloan, Uh, It's it's interesting, you know, we people are like jumping into houses.
Now.
It's like, okay, well I got to find the right house because now as we're back to a you know, a buyer's market, I picked the right house I got to get and you know, you pick something go well, you know, what it's.
It's I like the bones of it. I like the location.
It's in the right school district, it's close to work, close to high whatever it is, you know, we can work around that. We'll just remodel it. And there's people doing that too. But you know, sometimes you jump in and buy the house and I realize there's a lot of problems behind those walls.
Exactly, and then listen to the experts. So I'm going to tell you a quick story about a client of mine who was looking at a property in Mount Adams and it had a gorgeous view and it was a really cool, unique property, but the darn foundation was falling off the side of the hill. And she wanted this property so bad, she said, but look, but look, but
she didn't see what could be. And if you're looking at find foundation issues, that can be thousands of thousands of dollars before you even get to the fun stuff.
And so that's where you have to be, you know.
And for me, it showed me a picture of that house idea, and I was looking at it and I just looked the pictures of the back yard ago I wouldn't touch that because you know, the walls are both there's you know, four by four and like we just had a deck collapse, and and Clifton at the you know at you see with those kids college students and what ten people hurt. I'm looking at this going wow, that's way undersize, and it just it looked janky just from a photo which was I don't like one hundred
yards away. I mean, I'd have to drive out there and look at the go. Yeah, better have some money if you're gonna buy that.
I don't like to be the bad guy because if you let your emotions, you know, ruled the equation, you could regret it, because then financially, you're gonna go back and you're gonna look at the person who sold you the property or helped you buy the property and say, Michelle, why did you make me buy that?
I'm like, oh wait a minute.
Yeah. Yeah.
You have to be careful and listen to the people around you because being in the business as long as I have and you have, and we know, we know there are some things that no matter how beautiful the view is, it just may not be worth it.
So you have to be realistic.
And being realistic is oftentimes it's not as fun as just being a dreamer and enjoying a motion of it.
It's like when you bought your first car because the radio, the stereo was good.
That's what it's like.
My wife Michelle Sloan slon sellslmes dot com Open House show that's on the iHeartRadio app, the podcast as well as on YouTube too, and she's at Remax time in Mainfel slon sells homes dot com. All Right, Olby, I gotta go, I gotta go go feed the dog.
Okay, it's not time.
Yeah, well ask Kim many time. It's a good time to eat. It's like me, like as owner. We've got news on the way in just minutes. Willie takes over on the Home of the Best Bengals covered seven hundred ww since that