Do you want to be an American?
Here we go Monday morning, back at at Scott Sloan, hanging with you on seven hundred w WELW and we pick up where we left off last week, and that is three Ohio companies, including a Cincinnati outfit, filed a lawsuit challenging Republican Governor Mike Dewines emergency order to ban the sale of low level intoxicating hemp products Delta eight
infused products like edibles, gummies, and some certain seltzer. So let me just lay the explainer out because I was talking to people a few people this weekend are like, Okay, so I can't understand what the difference is between Delta and Dental nine and then CBD and then cannabis. Okay, So it's complicated. I'll try and make as simple as possible. So cannabis and hemp are they're related plants. They look alike chemically, they're different, and the part that gets you
high is much less so in hemp. Hemp has been legal in the United States, Cannabis is not by federal law. THC of the cannabis part and way THHD is the part that gets you high. CBD doesn't basically, so hemp has a little little bit of and CBD has a little bit of THHC in the hamp anyway. But so what they do is the products and because of this, I don't know you call the loophole, but product can be sold anywhere in the Buckeye State, hemp products, so
the government doesn't really have jurisdiction over them. And so the end result is, hey, we've got hemp and we've got cannabis. The THHC and the CBD. That's the difference between the two. The other thing you need to know you keep hearing about delta eight and delta nine and is the chemical compound that makes it up. So eight is generally considered not as potent and milder than delta nine. Delta nine is the classic weed high. Delta eight is a more it's a buzz I guess, it's kind of relaxing.
Maybe not as intoxicating, certainly. And the concern is Delta eight is synthetically produced by converting hemp derived CB product into a chemical process. They extract that point three percent out and then now you can get enough of that to distill in concertate enough to put in a product that will allow one to become mightily intoxicated. So I think that is like the dummies version, my version of what's going on here, and then we'll get to the
politics of it. Because Ohio State Senator Steve Hoffman is on the show from Tip City. He's a physician and sits in the legislature in Columbus. Steve, how are you.
I'm doing well on yourself.
I'm doing fine. It's always difficult to kind of explain complex issues like that. I struggle with it, but hopefully I think, you know, maybe nine out of ten, ninety nine out of one hundred, I think I got most of the points right. Then that's where that's where things stand right now in Ohiot's I hate calling it loophole because loopole is such a loaded term, but it kind of is when it comes to hamp.
You know.
So the definition of hemp is less than zero point three percent thchc. And to give you a reference from that, marijuana during woodstock was six percent thchc. Yeah, today it has grown at about thirty five percent. So in woodstock you're a catching a little buzz. Now you're getting stoned with just a little bit of product.
Yeah, which is which is agricultural progress. I mean in other areas it would celebrate. I mean, hell, Steve. And if you go back to the same time period of in the nineteen fifties, you know, we get what is it, four to six times more yield per acre for you know what it is we grow in our fields because of technology, the same thing.
Oh no, no, I agree, I'm not complaining or anything. Yeah, you know, just you used to get four bushes an acre. Now you're getting twenty bushes and that's great. Yeah, so that's modern technology.
It's technology. But as far as the HIGA, so it's kind of a sort of a loopholder. And I understand the concern. The concern is this, you do have teenagers, younger people even younger than teenagers, preteens, even going into you know, gas stations or carryouts, not all of them, but a number of them, and they will get a deltaate product because there's no age requirement, and the unscrupulous retailers have no problems selling that product to a kid. Nobody wants that.
Oh, I agree, And you know you're not going to see Kroger's or my Ers there places like that sell it. But you usually it's the one off gas station that you know, see it kinda see is a high profit law margin?
Yeah, for them, it's nothing about money. And okay, I get in that regard. Why the governor say, hey, we've got to do something about this. He's been complaining about this for a while, and it's specifically aimed at these you know, the intoxicating him products can be sold to kids that there's no quality control and they're dangerous. But my problem is this, Steve As, you know, what about
adults who choose to use your stuff? What about for example, I had on Friday morning the head of the fifty West call him to the show because he was listening and talk about how much money they stand to lose because a lot of adults are going, you know what, I really like the I like the products at Deltate, like the CBD infused products at a bar more than
I like the alcohol. And now we've got this tremendous wave that's sweeping across Ohan the rest of the country when it comes to adults going to in a bar and ordering one of these products. And now we have, just because of this alleged emergency, we've shut all that down that's what's problematic for me.
Oh, I don't disagree with you. You know, the Senate passed my bill eighty six back in March that would have solved all this problem, and the House is looking has taken it up, but hasn't decided what to do with it. And basically it said, if it's intoxicating with THHC, it needs to go into the dispensaries and we carve out the beverages to go to see her the liquor license so that they can continue to be sold.
That seems like an easy fix. Why didn't we do it.
Well?
So there's two trains of thought. One put it in the dispensaries. Ard number two kind of like the guy that you had on the other day that you can to be in any retail store, require twenty one and over and still be in those stores, but have a license. There is no license or plan for a license, but be twenty one and over to get THAC in that.
Form right, Because if I'm going to a bar, I mean fifty wests really upstanding place you go. Their kids are welcome, their dogs are welcome, they're hell they built one in Mason here where I am. It's gorgeous. They've got volleyball courts, they got sand for the kids to play, and they've got alcohol. They've got the CB drink D drinks. They got food and you know, the margins and food
and beverage. I don't have to tell you, Steve Hoffman, Senator, it's really really tight when I have someone on from that industry, or for example, retailers that are saying, hey, look, you know now like a quarter of my revenue and a growing number of the revenue is coming from these products because people are going beer sales are down. The fifty West folks said, yeah, we're the craft beer. Things
kind of peaked right now. Now people are like favoring how they feel after drinking a couple CBD laced beverages as opposed to traditional alcohol, because that's what the public wants. I don't know how you get away with calling this is such an emergency you've got to shut it all down in effect immediately for at least ninety days. And now we have people who have invested heavily in the product and developing and selling and the like for a
market that clearly exists by adults. And now you're telling me even they can't have it. That's extreme to me. To call this an emergency is absurd.
I don't disagree with you. I think the governor was his way to force the people, the General Assembly to either look at eighty six and put it in the dispensaries, or there's a ten to fifteen people in the House that say we shouldn't do that, we should just leave. Let these people do it, but make it twenty one and over. Maybe behind the counter, like we have other products behind the counter so that people can't get to
it is another train of thought. Or you know or you know, have a license to do well.
They're not going they're going to carre it to anybody who walks in. They're not going to sell these drinks to kids because of a loophole. Now maybe there's some again unscrupulous retailers, but we should be using the law to go after them and allowing the adults. Anyway, the good people to get what they want and what business
is willing to sell. And it's a market driven economy. Obviously, this is a play by the governor because he's willing to be the bad guy here to say, hey, look, we're going to force the House to do something to act on this from what you hear now, granted you're in a different chamber, is there any impetus to move quickly on this as a result.
Well, I think, you know, we'll see if these, you know, the temporary injunctions are out there. A lot of people think that they will not that they will be success successful to overturning the governor, because the governor has said, essentially for the last year and a half, this HEMP product and with the Dela eight Della nine is really bad. We've got to do something, but I can't do it. I can't do it with an executive order. And he says it's said that twenty five times, and now he's
doing it. And so there's a lot of people think that that it'll be overturned his executive order. So but it'll give people some emphasis to you know, to come to the table, to be able to say, Okay, is it twenty one and over in any store or is it over here in the dispensaries, because we've identified it this intoxicating.
Right, And I'll get back to the initial thing. And this is where I get what Mike DeWine is doing and leveraging this and saying we're declaring emergency shut it down. So there's pressure on the Assembly to get something done and get it done in a hurry. But at the same time, this is a problem that was created for a long time by these same elected officials in that there's been sizable demand for cannabis, medicinal cannabis and then
recreational cannabis. Everyone saw this coming. It was a matter of time before we passed it. Then the legislature after it was a grassroots effort, are going to pass Then the legislature got involved in trying too. Well, now we've got to regulated because this was the people I didn't fought for the governor themselves that I don't want this in my state. I went to Colorado. It's terrible, and the people in Colorado seem to enjoy it because they
keep voting for it. So at the end of the day, I see this whole CBD and the point three percent THCHC and that's just a workaround. It's synthetic marijuana. Because had we just accepted the fact that people want to use THHC products and I'm talking about adults here, and accept that and leaned into it, we wouldn't have this
whole loophole to begin with. I don't think, you know, it seems like this is a problem created by overregulation and not being responded to the constituents that for many, many years said what's wrong with us having some pot?
I don't disagree with a lot of things you said. I think it goes back to twenty eighteen. You know, the FEDS created in the Farm Bill the ability to have hemp. I had sentate Bill fifty seven in Ohio that legalized hemp. And it was our short sightedness. We didn't really think about the CBD and the THHC. We knew that there had to be under point three, but we were thinking about industrial hamp and you were going to grow it for clothing and straws and car parts.
But since then, the you know, this market for CBDs when and when people say I want a full spectrum product, that means it has higher levels the THHC in it, And so we didn't really think of that.
Now now we have to deal with it because that's what the people wanted. So the people who are going to get whether it's I mean as well, you know Steve that you know prohibition does not work in almost all cases, it just simply doesn't work, especially in something in this fashion.
Here.
One of the things I hear too, and you as a physician, Steve and can address this, is that we don't know enough about delta eight. We don't know enough about these derivatives, whether how healthy they are, and with the initial report, largely because you know, outside of hamp But we'll talk about cannabis. It's been a Schedule one narcotic for so long that no one's allowed to do research on it. So it's hard to say, hey, we
can't do research and find out what's in it. Well because the law, federal law prescribes it, we can't do that. What about CBD? What do we know so far about this product that, for all intents and purposes is illegal despite this this ninety day shutdown. But people do it for all sorts of reasons. I've tried it. It worked for me, I thought for a little bit, but I guess it didn't. Some people report great success with diminished pain and focus and things like that.
So there's three things in marijuana, and three common things in marijuana, and half the THC, the CBD, and another product called estra dial and it's the combination and the level of the of the three. CBD is thought to be safe. Again, there's no real research out there about what it helps with arthritis, it helps with with anxiety.
A lot of people think that both of those it helps, uh, but there's no research out there, but it's it's thought to be very very safe and certainly not intoxicating with that.
Yeah, and as far as long term effects have have we been able to study that? As someone on another country menial to do that, what do we know about it?
I don't think there's any any studies of above long term effects on with with CBD.
I do know this as a parent, I wouldn't want my adolescent to get it. I wouldn't want my kid using it now. If they decided when they become adults to engage in the use of alcohol or things like this, that's a different matter entirely. We we don't know. Do we have any idea what the effect might be on kids in the developing mind.
We certainly the THC is very bad for the developing mind. You know, mind really doesn't fully develop till you're about twenty five, So we know that's bad. That we have no research really on any CBD, but it's thought to be okay, but we have no research.
Yeah, I mean we know like heavy cannabis users, teenagers use it, their sleep problems possibly and things that persist later in life. Same for pregnant women. But you know, if you're a heavy teen user or a heavy user of anything in genier normally. And this is what I hate to see when we talk about prohibition and bands, is that you know, we're scaring people with a very very small percentage of folks who abuse it. Now that could be a kid, it could also be an adult too.
So you look at the extreme and say, this is why I should you should ban it because there's sleep problems and it could cause pregnancy issues and it could develop the problems in your kid. Okay, but that's that's like a fraction of one percent of the users. Most people are adults just trying to either feel better about their situation in life, do a little chemical yoga, if you will, Steve Hoffman, or use it to alleviate pains instead of using opioids. And we've had this now prohibition
extending far too long. I think we've got to be a little bit more friendly when it comes this I hope the legislature, and this would be the House, decides to get up, look at your proposal and say, all right, fine, we can't punish businesses who have leaned into making money and a growing number of money off of something that they were looking the other way on just a few days ago, in order to leverage this and say we've got to protect it's about the children. Every time someone
tells me it's about the children. As elected official, I do a side eye to them. You know what I'm saying.
I don't disagree with you. I do believe, as always, I believe that Governor de Wine is well meaning. Maybe we don't agree with the tactic that he took with the emergency order, but I truly believe that everything that he does is well meaning and partecularly for the children. Yeah.
I don't think he's doing this because he's horrible out of time. I just I hate the way he worded it to sell it. I don't know why I just would go, I'm doing this because the legislature won't do their job. I mean, you know, you're all on the same side of the aisle pretty much. I don't understand why you can't call out your own people. Nonetheless, State Senator Steve Huffman, what do you think happens next and how soon before this thing gets resolved?
Uh?
You know, the Speaker has said that he hopes we can do something by Thanksgiving, and I think it brings people to the table and say, you know what, what's a good compromise. The ultimate goal is to get this out of the hand that children, make it safe with some regulation, but still keep the products on the on the street.
Uh.
And I think that's what you've been talking about. So I think sometime here by the end of the by Thanksgiving, I think we can.
Work something out.
He is Senator, State Senator Steve Huffman from just a tipp City, if just north of Dayton. Thanks again, Senator, always appreciate your insight in your thoughtful prose on the show.
Good thanks for having me you take care.
Take care. I appreciate it. And you know, here's the problem with this, all this stupid political fighting. We've got the federal government to shut down for good reasons God only knows why. Well, we need healthcare. Well, you're subsidizing something that's if you didn't subsidize it, the exposure is like healthcare is broken. Let's fix that. Let's all get to get No, we've got to shut the government down.
And now we're not going to pay soldiers. But we're gonna pay soldiers because that's a bad look for us. And it's I don't care who you blame, the Democrats, Republics, not blame them all. They all have skin in the game. They're all at fault. It doesn't matter who. We're blind so they want they wanted to blame one side or the other. We blame the whole system for blame us
for allowing us to the thing to occur. Now you look at the state level, something we control a little bit better, because the more locally get the more control you have as a voter, as a constituent. Not a lot of this is going Hold on just a second. The state, well, legislature, both sides, and the executive branch controlled by Republicans, and it's been that way for a
long time. And you mean to tell me that you can't get this done without punishing good law abiding god fear in tax paying moms and dads, grandmas and grandpas, aunts and uncles, brothers and sisters. I'm not talking about the kids because the many of you start going, we got to save the children. That's how a pout the children and ain't about the children, It's about your political bs. How is it we have Republicans that largely can you know, whip and control each other. That's why they call you,
you know, minority whippings in this case the majority. And we've got to basically shut down something that's functioning, something that men and women enjoy with impunity and a growing number of people are discovering is a wonderful thing, and that would be these delta E T CBD infused beverages.
And we have a whole industry that's growing. You know, we worry about job loss and things closing, and you know, is it over for this because a at least in the you know, the food and beverage sector, we know that people are demanding more of these beverages. It's literally keeping alive a lout of our micro breweries. Yeah, Bobby Slattery was on the show on Friday. He called in he's the founder of fifty Wess and said this is saving us because right now beer sales people aren't drinking
beer like they used to. The craft beer thing now it's about the CBD infused beverages, which we're getting a huge market.
See.
So the end result is they've got all this product that they've got to sell at a discount because they don't want to go bad and try and cover some of their costs and then stop making it for ninety days because the legislature, the Republican legislature, can't get out of there on the way. How hard is it to come up with something and go, let's fix this problem. If you're an adult, you can buy the beverage as long as they're selling to their retailer or a place
that has a liquor license. It's an easy fix. But instead we get, well, we got to do we got to ban this to protect the children. That's stupid. Scott's Flown show seven hundred WW it's got a we're in Bengals, who's there four straight yesterday? But it felt like a better loss? Does that make any sense? It doesn't, but it does if you're a Bengal fan. You know what I'm talking about. More in that later in the show. Scott's Sloan Back with you on seven hundred WOLW State Centers.
Steve Hoffman on a few minutes ago, kind of laying things out where things stand with the CBD band and how many people does this affect? Seems like a growing number. We're out. I was out this weekend, rolling out on my knee scooter and stopped in a place and the conversation with the bar turn It's like, yeah, we we we Literally I've never seen any product come along as the takeover as quickly as the infused selters have, so, well,
what's the plan with it going away? It's like, well, you know, we're going to sell the stuff we can right now, and it's going to be a tough couple of months until I figured this thing out. So I feel for the retails, the producers. I mean, think about it. You just can't wake up one day. Okay, we've got the supply. Now you got to order the you know, there's there's things you have to order, the flavorings, the ingredients in there, and then you make the product and
it's got a short shelf life. It's not like you can just hold all these barrels in reserve. It's not like whiskey, where the longer sits at age is it's better. It's not the case at all, So I just wonder what these these retailers and specifically these companies that manufacture what they're going to wind up doing, uh in the interim to like get this thing figured out. And if you look at the economy, you know, certainly the statistics are much different than the fields. You don't want to
see anything going, especially something in demand like that. Hey, real quick on the on the topic Tom in Indiana and the Scott Floans Show.
Good morning, Good morning, How are you Scott?
Well, how are you doing?
I'm going to listen your senator you just had on now. Granted I understand this is an Ohio thing that I have family in Ohio. He is either very ignorant of the real fact about research on medical marijuana and marijuana you period, because in a two seconds search I found about forty articles places like Yale and the CDC and the Nationalists, TOUE of Health and all kinds of places. There is tons of research on this. So he's either ignorant or he's telling something.
Well, a couple of different things. You looked at marijuana, but we're talking specifically about CBD. For a long time, marijuana wasn't research that. Yeah, Yeah, what I'm saying is the law related. So what I'm saying is the long term research, and we don't have because it's all, I say,
relatively new thing. HEMP spent around for a long time, and because of the laws the way they are it, we don't have as much long term data on well, for example, fight products because it's a reletively new thing. And then the delta eight along with that.
True, but you heard him say it. They want to put this into the centuries. Why because the state doesn't want any competition. It's like just like distilled spirits. You know, you can't distill your own spirits because the government doesn't want competition.
They want the tax mon correct, yeah you can't. You can make your own beer. But in some areas they're actually trying to crack down. They're trying to crack down people making their own homebrew for crying out loud, and that's like, what are we doing here is simply to con ole revenue. I think that I think that drives a part of this. I really do.
Oh, I think it drives a great part of it. You know, if you leave anything in the Bible shows, you know, the Bible shows that the love of money is the root of all people. Well, you know, I think the government loves money, you know, because they want all of ours. They don't want anybody to make any extra without them getting their cut.
Yeah, that may drive I just don't see. I don't think it's it's practical for if I want a I don't know, a seltzer to go to a CBD place and buy it, because people aren't thinking that way. It's more like, oh, i'm i'm I'm sending here, I'm looking. I've got all these beer products and alcohol. I may try this flavor. It's not like you're going to go in there deliberately. It's just and if you want to destroy the whole industry, just do that. That's what they'll do,
is just have it available only in the dispensary. No one's going to go into dispensary to buy these products like they would in the liquor store or somewhere else. It's just it's not gonna work that way.
Yep.
And an adult, I appreciate.
Your thanks, Tom, appreciate you. You know, adults want to go in you go to a bar, so okay, I can have whiskey, I can have beer, I can have light beer. I can have all these different I can have one with higher alcohol. You go into places and they tell you what the ABV is, right. You know that Kentucky barrele al, that's that they sit seut in a little glass because that's stuff potent. That's like two beers and other stuff like mic ultra. You know, it's
closer to water. I enjoy mic culture like your golfing or something like that. That's fine, but you know it's low calorie, but it's also a little good alcol by volume. It depends what you're looking to do. I don't understand why this is such a big deal when it comes to to THHC. You know the idea that you know, Senra, Back in the sixties, the weed that we had was MutS of less potent th the weed today. Yeah, that's
a good thing. That means we do have technology learning how to do things like hybrids for example, and growing and normally in every other area, go wow, we're getting way more yield, much more yield than we did yesterday. In America anywhere we celebrate that. And there's still some people that we'll talk about it is it's like it's a bad wow. You just well, you can't overdose on it, you just so you'll use less and get justice high. That seems like it's value to me, right, it's the
American way as well. If we have a little bit of it, let's do more of it. And only when it comes to these guys, it's like a different story entirely the and not talking about Steve, but rather the the in this case, it's the House. And so Mike de Wine is trying to leverage and using this power to shut everything down, to force the UH, to force the House to do something and act on this. And you know, again we have I don't know why they're dragging their feet on it.
I have.
I would imagine if I were to guess, it has somewhat to do with the Bible thumpers and that contingent that that that portion of the conservative base that don't like anything. I mean, if we're up to them to run things, it would be not much much different than probably what we're fighting against in the Middle East, and that would be you just simply aren't allowed to have
any fun because God doesn't want that. I don't know who you are to interpret what God says, but we have an people to believe that, and I don't understand why you have to control the rest of us. It seems to me, if you don't want to go and use alcohol, you don't want to drink alcohol, you don't want to smoke marijuana, you don't want to have a CBD drink, you don't want to I don't know where a dress that doesn't cover your ankle, whatever the hell it is. It seems like, Okay, well you do that.
That good for you. I celebrate your right to do that, but don't tell me what to do. And that's the problem. Busybodies generally the problem busy bodies to vote even worse of a problem solo only A five point three seven four nine seven thousand, eight hundred the Big One talk back iHeartRadio app. You want to fire on the show
this morning? Where are you on fragrances. I know there's a difference, but I think between like old spice, I don't really consider that a fragrance, like body washes and stuff. I'm talking about perfume. There's a fine line between smelling nice and clean and clearing out a room them It's a fine line, just a fine line. Perfume ads when you watch if you step back and watch the fragrance ads, I don't know who they're designed to appeal. For a long time, I have no idea. I was like, who
is that appealing to? Exactly? If you just watch the end, because generally it's like some I don't know, bony women, effeminate men laying atop boulders and the beaches on fire, and I have no idea. What do you who's buying this stuff? I look at it, go wow, that's the stuff. For me, it's just weird. And I guess it's because it's awfully hard to articulate in the words, what something smells like, So you do it by something that makes you go, boy, if I use any of these products,
that makes me a weirdo. Yeah, countless people do. Look at the echo, what you what are you doing here? So in a way, it's kind of like the prescription drug ads. I can't tell you what it does, but the list of side effects is as long as the ad itself. It's fifteen seconds to people dancing, you know, in a square, and they're in a food truck and they're dancing around. They seem awfully happy and singing about this miracle product.
That.
I have no idea what it's intended to cure, but I'm supposed to ask my physician if it's right for me. I don't know. Okay, I can't remember the name of this. I don't know what this is. Hey, is that you know that ad where that heavy set woman's dancing around and there's a tuba player and then there's some old guy throwing a football and they're having a picnic that you know, you know that, you know that? Is that right for me? I have no idea what you're talking about.
Every one of the pharmaschool AADs look like that, Scott. Yeah, but I'm supposed to ask you if it's right for me. They won't tell me what it does, but is it right for me? It's another weird ad. But the perfume ads are the ones that, like, I don't know why people are is this really attracting people to go by this perfume? They're just so also just so weird, like the perfume mad people are weird people. But now we have a breakthrough the fragrance industry. We have the hottest
new trend. I'm waiting for the maybe the state legislature. I know how to ban this because people want it. Sense that smell like food not ever. Always kind of been around, but apparently it's like the huge thing right now. People wanting to smell like vanilla or pumpkin spice. Caramel swirl is a new scent. It's a mashup of notes
that remind them of Missus Butterworth's syrup. That may be okay maybe in the winter, but I think this time of year where the yellowjackets and bees are doing what they getting ready to winter in, maybe that's not the best, not the best thing to wear if you're headed outside.
Dove is partnering with Crumble Cookies on a lemon glazed body scrub, a confetti cake, a body washed Dunkin Donuts with a vanilla sprinkled deodorant, and a blueberry cobbler, Boston Cream mashup, Beth and Bodyworks and Milk Bar launching a collapse together. And you know, to me is a guy that to me is a long time. It's much more
appealing than the weirdo is rolling around on boulders. Yeah, if the idea hears, Hey, I want to smell really good and maybe somebody knows how I smell and we've become a getting a relationship, become attracted to each other,
we become a couple, become a thing. And maybe you know that just down one whiff will get me gone if you really wanted to do that, just somebody would make a I don't know, a perfume that smelled like a pizza or I don't know, like b dubs or something like that like that would really think a guy'd go, all right, she's cool. Yeah, and like that to me sounds like okay, it's smell. You smelled delicious, Like telling
someone they smell delicious. It is a much much better compliment, like you're getting your attention because you smell like lilacs or something like that. The whole perfume thing, it's like you have a little bit and you smell okay, you smell okay, But man, there's a finally you just don't need much more to go across that line, you know what I'm talking about. There people will come in and literally will set the smoke detectors off because they're wearing
so much perfume like their olo factory senses. I don't know what happened to you if you're snorting acid when you're like talking about like hydrochloric acid when you're younger. I'm not quite sure. But then there's those people. I don't think I'd ever have that problem if you smell, because you would never smell like too much pizza. If you had that kind of fragrance, you could douse yourself in the whole bottle and go. You'd walk in a run.
People go, wow, who brought pizza? Nope, just my scent. Same at the syrup, like syrup smells really good. Some of these weird. If you go to like the holidays once a year, I have to go Christmas shopping. Only time I go to the mall and you walk into Dillar's or something out of the perfume counter there, I not have to hold my breath for a good thirty forty seconds because it will just knock me to my knees because you have all these competing senses and it's
just too much. It's overload. Yet I walk in the food court, I never want to leave. It's the difference. Quick time out. We've got news in about that ten and when a return to the show on seven hundred WLW, I've got Chris Nihis on he's the CEO of Cincinnati Vigilance Cybersecurity. I don't know if you saw it last night after football sixty Minutes and it was think it was Leslie's stall or whatever it was. Maybe was Scott Paley,
I don't know, one of the sixty minutes people. They had a great story opening story about how China has infiltrated our critical infrastructure and the wake up call for us. And we've been talking about this for a while, but there were at least two hundred examples, two hundred cases where the Chinese have infiltrated things like our water treatment plants, our electrical grids, transportation, hospitals, tallcom stuff like that. And
the information coming out is pretty sobering. And what they're doing specifically, I mean, they're not hacking in and shutting systems down. They're lying dormant. They have the access to these systems, two hundred of them, which tells me if you found two hundred, how many are out there that we haven't found and they literally could shut things down. Now, the question is where in Cincinnatif there's two hundred of them or more, you think there's got to be one
near us? I mean, which small municipality is now infiltrated by Chinese spyware that they can use against us if they need to, and a coordinated tac for that matter. I mean, it's frightening as hell. It was one of the better things I think I've seen this year relative to a nice piece of investigative journalism. Is we've heard about that we've talked about and say, yeah, there's a
couple of cases here. I mean, you know, somebody gets in cattering health for example, just a few months ago they had their issues, and it seems like every couple of months there's one locally that this happens. But that's just a bad state act. That's that's maybe not a state act or maybe state sponsored, but someone just trying to hold them hostage for money. This is a whole different matter entirely. This is like national security and literally
shutting us down and our ability to function. Imagine what it would happen if they could shut the water supply now or poison our water because there's chemicals that treat our water in small quantities, but in higher doses could be fatal and we wouldn't know it until well was actually happening. Absolutely fascinatingway. Chris na has is on that to talk about the real threat here and what's next and now, if we detected this stuff, how do we
act against China? And maybe one of the other questions here too is you know, if China's doing that to us, are we doing that to China or other countries? Any answers probably yes, probably, yes, we'll get a time out in we'll talk to him about this. If you didn't
see it last night, it certainly is compelling. And of course President Trump is making the rounds I think in Egypt now or is about that to Egypt, is about to arrive there talking about the success of the Abraham Accords and what just happened between Palestine and Israel and
can we have lasting peace? And how long will be before the United States is what we always do and just simply forget about them and find something other shiny ball or tennis ball to chase down the hall like a golden retriever with add and ignore this and let it all fall apart. We were really good, regardless the administration at the time. We have a history of doing these things. We'll get peace, We'll fight for it, fight
like dogs. We'll broker, we'll get all that good and then we'll simply walk away, and then it all falls apart and we do it over and over and over again. Anyway, we got to get the news, and hopefully this is a piece that lasts much much longer than even pragmatists like myself sick hope it lasts forever. It would be a nice thing, wouldn't it the very least, And even a suspension of this the killing, it's kind of refreshing
considering what's happened for the last two years. We'll do news and more to follow slowly with you on this Monday morning home of the best Bengals coverage seven hundred ww sincenty.
You want to be an American?
Go builds?
Need one to night? Do you see Lost on Saturday? Or one on Saturday? The loss today on the Loss, of course, is Jim Kelly Junior passing away at seventy two. I've been fighting cancer a long time. I was enjoyed listening to Jim along with Dan Horde for what the last twenty years as the color analyst for the UC Bearcats, and just so sad to hear because he's such a good guy. But our thoughts in pairs with the Jim and his family, everyone in the in the Bearcat family
as well. Sloane here on seven hundred WLW. If you watch the Bengals last night, lose, but lose in a better way. Typically what you do is you hang on for a minute before you cut over to NBC and watch our boy talk about well last night's gale. I didn't say I've watched the whole thing in Kansas City wind up winning last night, But you watch sixty minutes on CBS and you always catch like the first couple of minutes. I thought last night they had a fascinating
story on about China our front of me. China has infiltrated some two hundred critical infrastructure operations in the US. Water treatment plants, electrical grids, transportation, hospitals, telecommunications. Pretty scary stuff that the incursions, these intrusions have been going on for a while now and we haven't done anything about it. Why because we're getting intel on what the Chinese may or may not do as they can control some of
our critical infrastructure. We've talked about this before, but I think when you start to hear two hundred or more facilities in America could be under Chinese control in a couple of keystrokes. That is a huge wake up call, going what if they're doing this on sixty minutes? We know the government's known about it for a while, and we're allowing this to continue. And what happens in the future on that is that Chris naiheis. Chris is the
CEO of Vigilant Cybersecurity here in Cincinnati. Chris, welcome back, are.
You, Hank Scott?
I'm doing great one. I'm well un till I saw this thing last night after football the Bengals loss. I'm like, well, wait, what's going on here? So the idea here is that China is lying dormant in two hundred these things. And I think it was like a small some small town in Massachusets. I forget where that it turned out. The FBI shows up and tells the operator, the guy who's in charge of it, Hey, listen, the Chinese have taken control of your facility. You don't know that, but the
Chinese have digital control of your facility. So we know that everything now is plug and play and it's the Internet of things, and everything is controlled remotely in electronics. And so before we branch off into what they're doing and how they're doing it. A water treatment plant. What could go wrong if the computers are under control of the Chinese and a water treatment.
Plant right sis the Littleton, Massachusetts, and a lot can go wrong. Actually, I mean inside these water treatment plants, you have different vats of chemicals. Those chemicals are mixed together in different varying levels. You have fluoride, you have all kinds of different things in there, chlorine, Those are mixed together very precisely to make sure that the water that we drink is clean, purified, it's refreshed.
When it gets to us.
If those systems, or the chemical interactions or even just the mounts the measurements are put into water different only it could be catastrophic. It can make our water undrinkable, penable, It could be it could make poisonous.
Uh, there's there's a lot of.
Different things that can happen inside a water treatment plant.
And that's just a small time. But imagine the masses steria of a town of I don't know if that ten twenty thousand people, If all of a sudden, your water's poisonous, and we would know it because they program everything to make it look like the tests are fine. I don't know if they do physical manual tests and how often they do that, I don't know the workings
of water treatment. Plow would think so that somebody's going, hey there's something with the right but it'd be too late for some people who are drinking poison water.
That would be way too late.
And then the problem with the two is, I mean, if you look at the way water works. We pump water into our water towers, that creates the water pressure into our cities, but you have the entire system would be contaminated, and you know, it just makes even if even if no one drank it, even if the system was contaminated, you have you have a major problem. And to your point, you know they're doing so much automation.
Now you know all all of the chemical you know, you know the chemical measurements, the purification, it's all it's all automated. The testing is mostly automated. They do spot checks and things like that, but there's sensors throughout the entire line that determine temperature. It determines if there's a different chemicals. I mean, you've even seen recently where they can see if COVID is spiking up inside you know, different cities because of what's coming in to waste treatment plants.
So there's there's a lot of different sensors there, but like you said, those sensors can be modified so that that way it gives incorrect information and then people don't know. You know, the monitors aren't going to trigger off.
It's something you can make boiling water look like it's freezing water based on what the what the sensors are on, to reprogram all that stuff, and no one to know until it's all sadly too late and you got to shut it and down and figure out what's happening. And that's just in one small town in Massachusetts, and then there's at least one hundred and ninety nine others and other water treatment plants, but electrical goods, transportation, hospitals, all
these things I mentioned. And what's interesting about it is or they said, there's about two hundred that they've identified since twenty twenty three. I suspect, like anything, the two hundred the most obvious ones. How many more do you think I are out there?
Oh?
I would say in every critical city.
We work a lot in critical infrastructure a lot of my background is in critical infrastructure, and you know, even back in the early two thousands, I was working with COMMONI control systems and you could see that those systems
were trying to be attacked. And I would say that was my wake up call, that you know, wake up call, But it was the moment I realized how evil this could be because in those situations, what we were seeing is someone attacking back then or Windows ninety five systems, and they were attacking these really old operating system It was, you know, not old at the time, but these systems were connected to these valves that could you know, from the system, you could open a valve and it would
be a release valve. You could release ammonia or pneumonia actually can melt people's lungs.
So you know, when I saw that happen, like whoa wait a second.
And that's what really made me get into this industry because for me, it's about making sure that we protect the United States right, and one of the things we have to be really aware of is that we're not doing a great job of it because.
They're everywhere so well. The problem is this right we have decentralized unlike China, everything's centralized in China. Here it's decentralized. So you've got small municipalities, and I'm guessing that a lot of these two hundred chris are small municipalities that don't have the budget. And you know, fifty grand to them may not be a lot to the state of Ohio or the United States of America, but fifty grand
to a small community is a lot of money. That's what costs us one small town to redo all their infrastructure to essentially make what the Chinese did moot. And on top of that, you know, paying for new equipment and getting taxpayers to fut the money for the latest and greatest servers and technology isn't always an easy sell. People don't make that connection until well, it's too late. We don't want to spend that time. Why are we
spending more money. We just updated these computers and our systems have been updated, and we don't need to do that anywhere. Why are we spending so much on people like, for example, the contract with vigil and cybersecurity. I mean, that's a huge cost item right there, and so we tend to cut away all of that help and all those people in safety Net and then something like this happens and we want more of it.
Right.
Well, see, here's the problem is that you and I'll make some bold statements here. You know, we talked about before you got to wonder you know why. You know, like the average time it takes to detect the threat. You know, Briising comes up with report every year. It's a great report. But the average time it takes the
detective threat today someone comes into your environment. The average time it takes for most cybersecurity technologies, right, this is the average, right, two and eighty seven days.
Right.
And so the biggest problem is that a lot of companies are buying technology that seems to work because it's a brand name, we're a big no name, but it doesn't actually do what it's supposed to. And so you end up with the attackers and these environments that are there forever, and what they really want to do in any warfare scenario is they want persistence. So what happens is these attackers come in, they trigger an event so that your security systems see it, you go do an
instant response. But what they're really doing is they're embedding themselves per persistence for later while they're triggering a fake incident, right or a real incident that you go work. The second problem is that companies use their security technologies that they use as badges, and the security companies that work with them.
Also use them as badges.
So what I mean by that is, you know, they'll put their logos up on their website, they'll you know, the security providers will do that. So that tells you the hacker exactly what technology is used. And then the third thing that happens, especially in these municipalities, is when they're buying things, they're buying things under committee or approval with their cities municipalities.
Because it's and so those are all open meetings, and.
So if I'm a Chinese threat actor, I can come in, I can know exactly I mean, in the state of California, you can go out there's a law that.
Requires them to do list.
It lists everything.
Any city, every single technology they buy was from a cyber standpoint, is on a list, so they can an attacker can easily go to water treatment plant see exactly what they use, and they just they just know how to attack them. So the you wrap all that up, and I think here in the United States, we don't understand warfare in the private sector very well. And in China they do, and in Russia they do. Outside US
they do. We just don't understand it here because we have US citizens are so comfortable with not interfacing with evil right.
Well, because we are commerce right and small businesses. We're we're business people, so we understand that we don't see that as you know, the competition, but not in the arena that the Chinese do because of that centralization element too. And so Chris ninehis is here CEO of vigil and Cybersecurity, in the sixty Minutes thing last night that there's some
two hundred plus critical infrastructure operations. We're talking electrical, we're talking water treatment plants and the like that essentially are under Chinese control. And so what they did is they've infiltrated that infrastructure and now they're just laying dormant. They're not shutting it down like some I don't know, if you have malware, which we've talked about before in the past, right you shut them down cattering health for example, pay me my money and I'll open everything back up. Or
maybe not. Some other actor gets in there and just wants to be disruptive and destroy things and shut it down and put some sort of political or anti state message on whatever it might be. We've seen that this is different. They're actually lying in wait. It's like a trojan horse. They're watching what you're doing online. They're watching the systems that you have in place, and in the future if they need to, when they need to, when they will, they will strike by doing all the stuff
we talked about and multiply that by hundreds more. And you've got real problems here in America that they're sitting there just watching and wait and lying dormant, and our own infrastructure and most of us have no idea they're there.
Yeah, right, And the reason you know, you and you know, we don't know all the details of Littleton, but you know we spent fifty thousand dollars to rebuild his network. I would say he didn't really he may not have actually even had to do that if he had the ability to see what was what was embedded. As in this environment, you don't have to swap out all of your systems, but if you don't have the ability to see what's there, then you do.
You have to start all over.
But the big problem there is he may not know how they actually got in, so he may have just rebuilt his entire environment. And this happens with a lot of companies. I'm not saying that Littleton did this, but they'll rebuild their whole environment. They don't know exactly how the actor got in, and then they get in again and they just wasted all that money.
Oh god, yeah, you know. And yeah, right.
The other thing too, Scott, that happens and this is this happens with a lot of our power generators. A lot of does come from China, right, they have a better you know, the transformers, things like that, they have a year and a half way time to get those We've already found you know, when they when those things have come in. Not we vigilant, but you know particularly but you as government has found that there's malware inside those systems already. Right, Uh, just straight out, straight straight
coming over. So the thing that we we just have to be a lot more aware of is that, uh, you know, we're going down a path that we have all these.
Back doors in a critical confrastruction.
Now I'll say this, now we have that as well, right, so you know, we do the same thing around the world, you know, and we're doing that's so that's what I went here, is like, well, we're doing it too, but it doesn't make it better.
No, No, because I guess on our side, Yeah, I think for us to be embedded.
Over there, totally get it.
We want to.
It's like an arms race, right, who could be embedded the most, because in any case, it's whoever can hit the button for right and and there's a couple of different things that can take place in that. But the big thing is to realize is that you know, this, this is a this is the hidden war, and cyber warfare has already happened. We're already in that, but you know,
most of us don't realize it. And in the critical infrastructure world or even the you know, the small business, medium sized business world in the United States, it makes up like eighty percent of our financial distability here in the US. And so if you want to take out hospitals, go and bed yourself in hospitals. You want to take
out water, go and bed yourself in water. You want to take out the financial sector the United States, go after small medium sized businesses that normally don't have the protection they need, right, right, And then you just took down the entire country.
And you do it with some keystrokes. You don't fire one shot, but you do it remotely via computer. So we had two hundred of these infrastructure operations that were a compromise orright, and now it's on sixty minutes. And I'm guessing that the Chinese have known that We've known about this for a while before it gets on sick teams for sure.
Right.
So yeah, in the month, in the months that that's happened, where our years even where they're exposed that and moved. What's that? What's happening right now as we speak? Then more of the same, less of the same or a different same. Oh, it's more the same.
Yeah, I mean it's you know the Yeah, it's just it just continues on and inside these environments that's where worker happens. We found this was a couple of years back, we found a Chinese threature group that bounced through the United States UH entity out to another country, right, And what they were trying to make it look like is that the attack was coming from the United States to
that other country. So the you know, you have that issue as well, is where you know, China will act like Russia, russill act like China ran axt right like Russia. You know, you're trying to really tie it back to whoever is actually really attacking, right, But the big key here and you you mentioned as well, you mentioned kettering health. Right, We've seen significant aspects where malware is you know, in ransomware is used to come into an environment, create a distraction,
and then allow people to be embedded. And most, like I was saying, most security technology out there is built to detect things that it knows about, not to always detect things that are unknown. So if you can attack someone embed yourself in a way that isn't known yet or isn't detectable yet.
You can hide and wait.
And especially if it's like a you know, in a triggered thing that's based on a timer, like maybe that connection reaches back out every month or every two months. You know, it's a single ping in the midst of millions of connections. It's really hard to find. So, you know, a lot of the ransomware or malware, those are the things like if you're in an organization you've had ransomware or malware, just fighting that is not the end of
your battle. You now have to comb through your infrastructure and find out is there a back door that was put in during that attack? Because you know, ransomware, like I said, is being used a lot. Is just that distraction now and you know and also too it's funding terrorism. You know, they just put these groups do they come in, they do ransomware, they found terrorism, they create a backdoor, and now they're embedded h and they'll be to continued
can and mouse game like this. And in the fear of course, is one day if if we are at odds and a war with the Chinese or whatever transpire, they they can shut down a significant portion of of what it is we have our infrastructure.
And if you tease WI, will they be able to execute that plan?
I mean, I think we're already seeing some of that. I think Colonial Pipeline was a good example of that. You know a few years ago, and I talked about that. You know, there were you know, there's there's inside of these pipelines, there's sensors. You can take over the sensors, you can heat them up and explode the pipeline. You know, like I said earlier, money control system, water water treatment plants.
I think when we when we see these.
Isolated attacks, you know, quote unquote isolated attacks, I think that those are just tests, right, I think they're hey, how far can we go?
Right?
I mean we and again you see those things happen around the world. I think we do our own tests also, you know, uh, you know, but you know, and it's just to show each other, Hey, I'm here and I can do that. But I think in the United States we have to be much more careful and aware that just putting the security technology in doesn't mean that it's
going to find what we're actually looking for. And we have to be much more educated as business owners into what is really happening in our environments, especially if we
support companies like a General Electric. You know, if you're a city, if you're a community, a business here in Cincinnati that supports General Electric, highly likely you're going to get attacked before they will, because they'll try to come through you to get to them, right ye uh, you know, Especially if you're an HVAC company or you're a you know, you're you're you're you're you're building plans for them, you know, to build out a facility or whatever. Highly likely you're
you're going to get attacked. If you are a business that creates a part for you know, a defense industry or for uh parttery gamble, right, that's really critical to their system, chances are you're.
Going to be attacked and and so got it. You have to be a lot more hyper aware.
You know that?
That what?
Yeah?
So god he's Chris and I Hi, CEO of Sincidate based Vigilant Cybersecurity. Go to the CBS or sixty minutes so you can watch this whole piece. It really is fascinating, uh in how embedded the Chinese air system? Chris, all the best, thanks again, thank you, Scott, all right, being well, got to get the news running late. Just a few minutes away, we got Julie Age Mental Health Monday here next. If you're a procrastinator, she's going to be talking about
you and to you. Just to head on seven hundred WLW. Everyone needs help every now and then, and she's here to help us get our heads right. This is Mental Health Monday with mental health expert Julie Hattershire. I love this topic especially you heard of paralysis by analysis, overthinking and overthinking and thinking and thinking and thinking and then thinking some more and then not doing anything. How do you convert that into action from a place of inaction?
Julie is here. It's Mental Health Monday on the Scott's Loan Show on seven hundred WLW. If she's a licensed mental health therapist here in Cincinnati and Clifton, and welcome back. How's your week? Everything good?
Hey, everything's great?
How about you?
Everything's fine? Thank you? We overthinking things?
Wait?
I think do most people tend to be overthinking? It seems like very few people are, like Trump, for example, watching the motorcade arrive in Egypt for the peace summit, and there's a guy who's very decisive, right, we love him or hate him. You look at him, go, he's gonna make a decision. He's gonna go this is it. And even if it's the wrong decision, I'll never admit that. He says, I make a decision. I'm moving on to something else. Very few people have that ability, don't they?
Well, And I'm not sure that we would want a whole lot of people to be that that decily decisive, right, right? We kind of want people who give things some thought and some consideration and an appropriate amount of due diligence and research. But there are people who tend to be more decisive slash impulsive, and people who tend to be more conscientious slash overthinkers slash anxious, And that's sort of
what we're talking about today. I tend to fall on the more decisive impulsive end of the spectrum.
How about you?
I have no It depends on the day, depends on the situation. Like there's some things I want to do, it's like long term, but other stuff keep getting in the way of me doing that. Or maybe that's an excuse. I don't know. I go, well, I got all this other I want to do this, this, and this, but I haven't done it in a while because I've got all this other stuff going on. Well, how do you categorize that?
Well, So, is that being too busy or is that getting stuck in a loop inside your head and not moving off square one because you're thinking too hard about it?
Probably probably a lot of Probably a lot of it. Like, yeah, it's busy, but it's like I have an excuse. It's cover right, is it not doing something going I don't know. I should do this, but I don't know if I really want to do it. And maybe that's Also part of it too, is just as meaning you know what, other than saying no, it's just not right for me, you can procrastinate more and pretend to be I'm too busy to be decisive.
Yes, So overthinking can lead to procrastination, and procrastination can partly be caused by overthinking. There are other reasons people procrastinate, But when we're talking about overthinking, what we're really talking about is people who get stuck in this loop inside their head and have a hard time making any kind of remove on a topic or in any area of their life because they're thinking through all of the what ifs,
all of the worst case scenarios. They're doing research on every possible option out there, and as we know, there are a million billion possible options in the.
World for almost anything we want. And these are people who just get stuck and can't seem to.
Move and get so worked up about any decision they make and at having to be perfect or go exactly right that they end up not doing things that they otherwise would want to do.
Okay, so what you're saying is it's pretty common to have those things. Whereas there's things in life, a few things where you're like, I'll just kick the cad and then it starts to encompass everything in life. Can't make a decision on like you know what flavor coffee I want this morning, or if I'm super solid with by Lodge. You can't make a decision on anything. That's a problem.
Yes, I have a client I've been working with for a while, a couple, and one of them is stuck on what they're going to tile their bathroom with. And their bathroom has been in a state of disrepair for weeks and weeks and weeks because she can't make up her mind about what Kyle to put in the bathroom. She always has to look at other options and what if there's something better out there, and what if this
doesn't hold up as well? Or what if I get tired of the color, And so their bathroom has been largely unusable for weeks, longer than it needed to be because she can't commit to a tile choice.
It's that kind of thing, easy, black and white, timeless next.
Exactly.
See, that's where your decisive, That's where I would be decisive. That's where somebody who's prone to overthinking get stuck in a loop about it.
Needing to be the right decision.
Yeah, it's fine.
And not knowing what the right decision is.
There's no right decision. Just pick one and go with it. Just go yeah, just to do something simple and the time white and black always will be timeless.
You know.
If you want to get in like gold colored, then that's that's going to be short shelf life. But black and white will always be in at some point. So where does that come from though? Why does it happen?
Well, a couple of things.
People who are prone to anxiety and prone to be more conscient just tend to be overthinkers. And we understand that that's a temperament that comes very early in life, almost from birth, the tendency toward anxiety and conscientiousness. But also there have been people whose past life experiences have led them to believe that making the wrong decision has really awful consequences. And like parents who would say regularly, what were you thinking? Why didn't you think that through enough?
It would have gone so much better if you thought that through. Maybe true, But also what that message is is if you think hard enough, you'll find the right decision and things won't go wrong versus Okay, so this went wrong.
What can you do differently next time? How can you salvage this?
Not about the recovery, but about presenting it in the first place. So people who've had life experiences that weren't really badly when they didn't think things through enough tend to be gunshy.
Gotcha, because there's consequences fear of failure.
Fear of failure exactly, lack of belief in self to be able to deal with whatever consequences come their way. So one of the things that I say often is I'm an adult with a cell phone and a credit card. I can make almost anything happen. And you know, really, I can make almost anything happen. So from my perspective, if something doesn't go according to plan, I can regroup, I can think, I can pivot, I.
Can come up with something else.
That's my perception. But other people don't necessarily have that mindset. And if they don't believe in themselves to be able to pivot, and they haven't had enough failure to learn that they actually can recover from it, the idea of failure can prevent them from taking any kind of action in the first place.
Well, you just had a raw nerve there talking to friends this weekend and one of them's involved. And I want to say the business and name names here, but we have a generation of people in the workplace and high level positions there are a fear of any criticism whatsoever, Like as much as like, hey, you know you've got the wrong aim on I don't know, some sort of report, let's say, and you know, they lose their mind, like, oh my god, I've been criticized, and now they call
Nochelle and hr is involved. I mean, I'm not exaggerating, that's actually happening. And that's frightening. Like literally, you're at a job and you're meeting with people and someone your superior says, hey, listen, you made a mistake on this. Can you fix it? And it turns into some sort of attack on their big can't take criticism at all. And we've got workplaces full of people like that. That's
scary as hell. Not to diminish the topicing get in the weeds here, but that's more common than people would think.
It's very common.
And when you have a workplace that values perfectionism over innovation, over novelty, over experimentation, over doing something imperfect, in a timely manner and moving forward. Then it creates and sustains this belief that everything has to be exactly as expected in order for it to be good, and the consequences
are dire if not. And again, if you have someone or a generation of people who haven't really been allowed to fail because they were raised by helicopter parents or snowplow parents, then the idea of failure becomes outsized to the reality of it. You know, we've all screwed things up and we've all had to pivot and make amends
and figure it out. But the idea of failure becomes so outsized to the reality of it that they get stuck in their heads on this endless loop of I have to do more research, I have to do more research, I have to read this again, I have to edit this again.
Yeah, it doesn't have to be perfect, but you got to make a decision. Julie, how to share our licensed mental health therapist, Mental Health Monday and the Scotsloan Show. It's paralysis by analysis. People will overthink and how you stop overthinking and take action as what we're talking about. Okay, so we got into the whys and how big it is how do you break the cycle?
Well, there are a couple of things you can do. There are a few things.
One of the things that I really like to counsel people to do is set a time limit for when you're going to make a decision. I'm going to research so, to use the tile example, I'm going to research tile over the weekend, and by Monday, I'm going to have a.
Decision that is placed in order.
So set yourself a time limit that you choose to adhere to that gives you some sense of urgency, gives you some time to do the research and the thinking that you need.
But doesn't keep you stuck in that loop.
Another thing that can really be helpful is focusing on just the next step. People who overthink tend to think seventeen steps down the road. So I'll do this, and then i'll do this, and then I'll go like this, and then I'll go like this, and they're trying to predict the outcome. Focusing on the next step. We don't need to see the whole ladder. We don't need to
see the whole road. We just need to take the next step up or down the road can be really helpful too, because that is a more manageable chunk of information and a more manageable chunk action for people to deal with then the entire project. You know the question, how do you need an elephant one bite at a time. You have to just take these small chunks that can be helpful too, Okay.
Break things down in yeah. Like the tile example is like, okay, well, let's just focus on the floor tile. Let's pick that and go out for it rather than everything else.
Got it right, exactly.
Another thing that happens when people get into this overthinking anxiety loop is they think worst case scenario and they think of all the things that could go wrong. And so what we know about our brains is if try not to think of the things that could go wrong. If we're wired to think worst case scenario and we
try not to, that doesn't work very well. So what I tell my clients to do is you're allowed to think of the worst case scenario, and then you have to think of at least three other things that are not the worst case scenario. So go worst case first, and then broaden your thinking to think of three other possible outcomes that aren't that. Just to broaden the idea that it could be this, but it could be this, or it could be the other, or it could be this other thing.
Okay, broadening that scope helps.
Yeah. So also does the fact that if you just make a bunch of small decisions that then do you get confidence making bigger decisions.
Does it work that way, Yes, yes it does.
So you build momentum, you do something and it goes right, and you realize, oh, I am a good decision maker.
I can figure this out. You do something else it goes right.
I can.
Or you do something and it goes wrong and you figure it out and you fix it and you're like, oh, when things go wrong, it's not as bad as I thought it was. You build confidence in your own decision making and your own problem solving.
Gotcha? Would you agree that? I think for a lot of folks that overthink and don't take action, which is a lot a lot of people, is that you don't have to have every detail in every angle completely figured out before you start a project.
Exactly.
You can figure out some key things and then let what happens happen and figure the rest of it out as you go along. And I tell people to think about it not as what should I do. But what are all the things I could do?
Not how should I do this? But how could I do this?
Because should is like a yes no, and could is a broader perspective to take.
Yeah, it makes sense, you don't need to figure it out where start going ahead?
Sure?
Why not go with that for now? But it's easier said than done, right, It's that first step is really really hard for people.
It can be really hard for people, and that's why I encourage people to microdose discomfort. Try doing some things that are small that make you a little uncomfortable, that move you just a skosh out of your comfort zone, and see how you handle it. Try to increase your tolerance for uncertainty and discomfort and messiness in your life so that you can become more resilient and you can think more broadly and you can have more options available to you.
Yeah, but that's I guess discomfort. Yeah, well, that's against human nature rights. We want to be surrounded by comfort, which is the whole thing with child rearing. When we talk about helicopters and plot parents, it's about making your life comfortable as comfortable as possible. But adversity builds character. It's so true but it also prepares you to make decisions.
And these are the really negative consequences of that attitude of protecting you from everything and not preparing you for anything.
Correct.
Yes, there's this thing called post traumatic growth. We've all heard of post traumatic stress. There's this thing called post traumatic growth where when something goes wrong doesn't have to be big trauma. When something goes wrong in our lives, we can.
Grow from that.
We can gain resilience, we can gain confidence, we can gain skills or knowledge or expe can gain a lot from when things go wrong.
We don't just gain from when things go right.
In fact, some of the greatest lessons most of us have learned have been when something didn't go according to plan.
Right, she's really had ter share a licensed mental health therapist from a be Connected dot Care that's let her be connected and she's out of a Clifton and going to reach out future topic or concern, comment or question. Hey Julie at be Connected dot Care. It's mental Health Monday with Julietge. Appreciate you and we'll talk next week. Have a great a few days. We will take care. Thanks all right, stop overthinking and get off your butt and start doing stuff. Quit talking, start doing. I guess
that's the bottom line here. We'll get a news update in the President is now in Egypt for the pe summit there, and so far, so good in the hours that have happened since the piece has been brokere we have that going on a little closer to home here in Cincinnati, we just learned about the passing not long ago of the live of the legend himself, Jim Kelly Junior, of course, Bearcat Hall of Famer, passing away. I believe at the age of seventy two, been battling sickness for
a while. But the longtime color analyst to Dan Horde's play by play, he's been out for a little while anyway, but he'll be sadly missed. Jim Kelly Junior passing away today, and our thoughts and prayers with the Kelly family and everyone down on Clifton this morning. Scott's loan show on the Home of the Best Bangles coverage Anne Home of the Cats, seven hundred WWD Sincnt.
Want to be American.
Scott's flowing back on seven hundred WLW have a deal Israel. Israel and Palestine have a peace deal. All the living hostages in Gaza been released for about two thousand prisoners in Israel, Thousands of Palestinians to walk to northern Gaza to try and find what happened to their loved ones and their homes. And Trump addressed the Israeli parliament earlier today to large cheers. Also, some protests are brokering the peace deal entering two years of wards, then the two
years of war. He's meeting in Egypt with the leaders of more than twenty countries. That's with next as he takes as much as their victory lap. The question is is this a lasting piece. Abdullah Hayek is a Middle East analyst and consultant and is a peace fellow at the Young Voices. Abdulla, welcome to the show.
How are you good morning, Scott, Thank you for having me. I'm doing good. How are you well?
Thanks? I appreciate it. So is this just is this the end of the war or is this a loud ceasefire and we're going to pick this up in a few weeks, a few months, maybe a few years.
Well, so far it seems that the war in Gaza is indefinitely over. We've seen Trump's confidence apparent when he was addressing the press aboard Air Force one en route to Israel, and a reporter I believe it was Caitlin Collins from CNN asked the president, you say the war's done. Nataniello says it hasn't, and it just tells her, do you understand me, it's done. It's just done. The war
is done. So it seems that the president is pretty adamant that he wants to end the war in Gaza, and so far, with the three past ceasefire attempts over the past two years, this particular ceasefire seems to be successful because Hamas has actually participated and budged and went through with at least the first successful phase one of it. Thankfully, the twenty living hostages are freed. Now that's the first step.
The Israeli hostilities, the offensive operations, bombing, military participation in the strip have ended, and the humanitarian car door has proceeded. So I think what matters now is within the next few hours when Trump departs Israel and goes to Egypt and meets with twenty other world leaders as you just mentioned, and we'll see what the next steps will be. But so far, so good.
Well, the good news is you have pretty much the rest of the Middle East on board with this. The outlier, though, would be Iran as the largest state sponsored terrorist operation in Iran, whether or not not Hamas continues, albeit maybe in a different form, but continues. That's going to be up to them, isn't it.
Well. I doubt that Hamas will play any role in god As any day after this. The popularity amongst the Gazen people themselves has extremely diminished. They are extremely unpopular, They are unwanted. Iran has shown its cards to the region that whoever seeks to shade under it really gets forsaken. Hamas has been literally left to center itself Hasbola has been destroyed by Israel without any real aid from Iran.
The outside regime, as we've seen in December, just crumbled in a matter of eleven days, and the Hoopies have literally been smacked by everyone in the region and Iran hasn't done anything. The only time Iran fights back is what it's hit itself. So I don't think that Iranian influence over Hamas is going to be as it was prior to October seventh, And I think the Palestinian people will right now understand that really piece is just the best way to move forward and end all of this.
Yeah, I just wonder if there'll be enough splinter members left of a mass, maybe they reform down the line is something else, But you know, at least temporarily with the near future, things look good, Abdulla Hayek relative to peace in that country that we've seen on and off again now well longer than we've both been here for sure? How much of this as far as the trust element, because that's really the big thing here, right, is that people are just maybe what ended this whole thing is fatigue.
Well, fatigue is certain. This war is the longest that Israel has ever been in Israel, you know, usually goes to war for weeks or months, not for years. I think trust is a two way street. If the war truly wants to end, both sides need to trust each other. If we see a pattern developed within this conflict, we can see that every three major peace deal breakthrough usually succeeds a major war. We've seen the Camp David Accords succeed the Yom Kipur war. We've seen the Also Accords
succeed the First Intifada. So right now. I think with this war being so destructive and you know, groundbreaking and changing the landscape, I think there's an opportunity right now, with fatigue, with the determination to solve the conflict, with with everything you could possibly imagine, to actually come through with a peace deal that will not just end this
chapter of the conflict, but the whole conflict. And I think it would be best with if it's stayed within the two state solution in some way or the other.
Well, it seems like it's headed that way. We'll get that in a second. But as far as initially earning the trost I guess of each other, the Israelis as well as Palestinians, says I would think like humanitarian aid would be a big component of this. Is that if we're delivering food and we're not just the US but Israel, and you have actual Israelis that and boots on the ground they're delivering food and water and medical spies helping them rebuild Gaza, doesn't that go a long way to lasting peace.
Well, it's definitely a gesture of goodwill. It's much needed, actually, especially with the high chance of salmon that were on the strip. I think that The initiative on behalf of the Americans and the Israelis to commence food delivery is good, but I think that it would even be a better gesture of goodwill if both of them participate within the reconstruction and the rehabilitation of Gaza project as a whole
with the broader international community. That will definitely go a long way, and it will certainly show that the people in Gaza that once you get rid of Hamas and once you get rid of the Iranian influence, the aftermath is usually more rewarding and more prosperous for you. So I think that would go better in developing the trust that you were talking about, in which it would chill that the Israelis don't just come with the hammer, they come with the olive branch as well.
Yeah, you don't you know, if you see your enemy, if you can see in touch and who was formula enemy and they're helping you rebuild, Now, that's how you regain trust. That's how you build I think, a lasting piece. But that is the very very hands on, early, touchy tactile component of this whole thing. The other element is you mentioned Abdulla Hyak. Middle East analysts and consultant is
the rebuilding in governance. So you mentioned a two state solution, and that has always been a perilous ask, and that is, okay, can can we have Palestine and Israel co exist in the same land that has always been fraught with a lot of problems because of how much land and where and expansion and the like, And that's driven this whole conflict for a long time. If you have a transitional governance that leads into governing, you almost by definition, then
have to have a state to govern. Correct. So this is the fact of a two state solution. To start, we have established Palestine as ali a legitimate territory, and I think countries like France were not long ago booed by us, but now it sounds like this is what we're doing int.
Well, Scott, it's good that you mentioned this, but within that realm you just spoken, the whole thing is all over the place. Now, both Hamas and the Trump twenty point piece plan both they explicitly mentioned that they will not accept the Palestinian authority to go into the Gaza strip and resume governance after Hamas surrenders. Now, I think that is the major point that raises one's eyebrows because Hamas only stated that it will surrender the strip to
a body of international and independent Palestinian technocrats. Has anyone ever heard of that term really successful in the Middle East?
I don't think so, which brings us back to my original point, which I believe, with the same motivation and initiative we've seen in ending the war in Gaza, I think the US and the international community as a whole has to lead an initiative to revitalize and decorrupt the Palestinian Authority, which was designed to be the governing body of the Palestinians in the wake of Oslo in nineteen
ninety three. They've already had a track record of governance and for a good period of time they were successful. Those are the guys that will really do the job to help the Palestinians.
Well, can we trust them now? I mean that there's a history of corruption, allegations and failed peace talks and everything else. We're back to that.
You're absolutely correct, But that's what I'm saying. We need to lead an initiative to rehabilitate them, to revitalize them, do something to motivate elections. Being happening there and the Palestinians electing leaders. I know two thousand and six happened and Hamas won, but the constituents that were present in two thousand and six are ninety percent not going to
vote in this election, which is twenty years later. The young generation of Palestinians have seen that the wrath of Israeli military might is not something that should be dealt with, as we've seen in the example with Gaza, the Palaestinians would want to end the conflict peacefully. If we can just go to polling data, if it were to emerge right now, it would most certainly show that the Palestinian
people do not want the confrontation with Israel anymore. We're seeing social media footage on the ground in Gaza that just attack Hamas more so than they attack Israel. So the tide is changing in the region. You know. As for the two states solutions, what the voters will be, what the shape of the app would look like, that's all I think. Very very tough to tackle. I mean,
numerous presidential administrations haven't been able to tackle. But it's good that they keep it within that framework because honestly, other than that what is the solutions how? I don't think, you know, there's any other possible solution because the Israelis are not going anywhere, the Palestinians are not going anywhere. Is it going to be fulfilled within the you know, the one state solution or a three state solution where the West Bank goes back to Jordan or the Gaza
Strip goes back to Egypt. I don't think that's going to be feasible or possible. So a two state solution in which both sides can guarantee each other's security and peace is the best solution. And how that's going to
be done? I think you need courage. I think you need the courage to overcome the obstacles, and you know, in a nutshell, I think you know, the Arab claim as foreshown in the two thousand and two Arab Peace Initiative, which states that there would be full recognition on behalf of the Arab world with Israel in return of Israeli withdrawal from the Palestinian occupied territories. I think that's a good start, but you know, the Arabs have to amend that.
You know, the Borders of June fourth, nineteen sixty seven, aren't really feasible anymore because previously there were major chunks of Palestinian cities surrounded by tiny dots of Israeli settlements in the West Bank. And that's just the other way around, where you have these major Jewish Israeli settlements in the West Bank that are really just surrounded by Palestinian dust. The demographics in the West Bank have changed dramatically, So I think that they need to get over the June fourth,
ninenineteen sixty seven borders. They have to come to an agreement over Jerusalem, and I think something can be made. But the time is right now. The iron is hot. It's best time to strike is now. So we'll see.
And we also have to maintain focus, and that's something I do a little that we're really bad at in the West to specifically America is well, we'll do this, we'll celebrate, then we'll move on to the next thing and completely forget all the work it took to establish peace in the Middle East. All these countries. We let
it fall apart. We've seen a long track record and that whether it's a Vietnam, whether it's Afghanistan, whether it's the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Cold War and the Russians the former Soviet Union, and we just ignore that and go, hey, if we don't maintain democracy and try to keep feeding it and caring for it and nurturing and nursing along, it'll fall apart because it's fragile.
We do that all the time, unfortunately. So and the track record isn't just you know, with those states that you mentioned. It has been with the Palestinians over and over again, with the whole conflict. So I think, you know, Donald Trump has shown true interest in you know, having his second term his administration be remembered as that of
a peacemaker. We've seen his record be successful so far and ending conflicts between Armenian and azer by John, the Indians and Pakistanis, the Rwandans and Congolese, and three other conflicts in addition to the one in Gaza and Israel.
Yeah, and well again we'll see how long it lasts. If he can get through his second term without it falling apart again, would be that alone, by itself would probably be a small miracle. And I know there's a lot of pieces behind the scenes. As he's in Egypt now talking world lads, a lot of things had to happen behind the scenes for this to occur, namely leveraging Cutter and Turkey and Egypt to get this deal broker together. That took a lot of work behind the scenes obviously.
Oh yeah, And I think there needs to go credit for the Turks. Over the past two years, the major countries involved in the negotiations were, of course Israelis and Americans, with the Kataris and the Egyptians. When the Turks got involved in the negotiations, only in a matter of three days did we come to a solution to the conference. So I think, you know, the credit is due to the Turks, especially that President Erdogan has, according to President Trump,
personally intervened in the negotiation process for itself. The timing is just right. I think everything is just falling in time. Two years have ended, the hostages have just seen enough, and I think the civilian population of Gaza has just been under horrible conditions that no one could possibly imagine. The timing is right, the conflict's ending, everyone's happy. I think, you know, why shouldn't the population both in Israel and
the Palestinians just moved forward to peace? Why can't we see a rebirth of the.
Nineteen nineties again, possibly, and he hopes so, because there's just so much blood and life lost and devastation, and it cut deeply on both sides, and that that blood is so fresh that I think a piece elast for a little while. Unfortunately, what happens in another generation comes along and forgets about history. But we'll let them address the later day. Let's celebrate the fact that the finally the war has stopped. Over two long, hard years, all
the death and destruction led to this. He again on the show, is Abdulla Hyak, middle East policy expert on the Scott's Loan Show on seven hundred. Ww's a piece fellow with young voices. Thanks again for the time. I appreciate it.
Thank you. Scott's great to be here, and I look forward to our next discussion.
Trump is in Egypt to take his victory. Laugh, maybe a lap meeting with leaders of some twenty countries here closer to home. The big star, of course is the Bengals. The Bengals, the Bengals. The Bengals lost, but they did it in a better way. We learn to lose better. Let's put it that way. Joe Flocker look pretty good
at second half, the defense fall apart. The big question, of course is why can't we have the offensive defense on the same page for all four quarters, certainly in the last number of games in this early season, so earlier in the season. In fact of the matter is you played complimentary football. It's got the last four quarters. Offense looked bad in the first half good and the second half in the opposite for the defense wilted in the end. But Scott Steelers, it's a short week, Thursday
night football coming to Cincinnati. Scott Sloan show. We've got news on the way in just about four or five minutes, hanging on for more seven hundred w welw sony on seven.
Hundred WW Again.
The Cincinnati Bengals fell in the pack because I don't have to tell you that yesterday afternoon. Should the loss feel like a win?
In a way?
James Rapine is here from SI Bengals talking lockdown Bengals. James, did we win in the loss?
No?
No, we did. Answer.
They don't get that an we lost, but it feels like a better loss. It's like, no, you lost, It's just a loss. Is a loss even though you lost by a loss, by your worse you didn't look it wasn't as embarrassing as previous loss. He's still lost.
For sure, and that's the correct takeaway. I also think to the people that are optimistic for yesterday, the reason the reason why you're optimistic is because there are we're signs of hope and signs of a difference. Now, will that translate into Thursday? That's the real key, because a loss is a loss is a loss. But if it helps you on Thursday, well then that could translate totally.
Well we'll get to that. Le's slow down just a second. Here's the problem with the Bugels. It's been true, whether Jake Brown is a quarterback or not, is putting a complete game together. We've heard about the complimentary nature of football, offense, defense, special teams, offense bad first half, good second half, defense, decent first and half, bad second half. We can't put this together. That's, you know, one of the many problems.
It's been an ongoing trend here, specifically with the offense being bad in the first half. Now we had an excuse, not so much under Joe Burrow, but under Jake browning one half of football for one Joe Flacco is not really a trend. It's a sample. Bengals put up sixty five yards total offense, but it was only down ten to nothing at halftime, and that seemed like, Okay, I don't know how we're going to generate more offense in the second half, but they did, and then the defense collapsed.
So I guess maybe that's because the offense is so went up in the first half, by the time the defense gets to that fourth quarter, they're completely guessed.
Maybe, you know, maybe that's the case. And I certainly would love to see this offense start and play normal football in the first half. They've been outscore seventy nine to nine in the first half of the past four games. They haven't sort of touchdown in that span. Magically, the nine is three three three point three three field goals.
So it's it's frustrating to watch.
And yesterday I do think that there's some reason behind it that Joe Flacco had just gotten there. You're going up against the good defense, you are on the road, and yet at the same time, it doesn't change. Exactly what we had seen the past three weeks is happening again. And no, they didn't turn the ball over but they literally couldn't move the ball. At the end of the first quarter. They went three and out on their only drive.
I had one yard of total offense. It went three and out on three of their first four drives.
Of the half. Like it just can't That isn't a way to win games. You can't do that. You can't start off that slow because you're right now.
We're wondering, all right, well, is it the defense's fault or is the defense just gassed or well, I think the defense was awful in the second half, and I don't think it's all them just being gassed. But you have to start better if you're going to win games, especially on the road against really good teams.
And you're playing at lambeau Field. You're playing in a pretty good Packers team that's no slacker. That now Pittsburgh, the sweetheart of the division right now, comes to the town on Thursday. Arguably that's a much tougher game. You're playing at night, you're playing at home at pay Corps. Hopefully home field helps you. But right now, the Bengals, if this is any indication of how you know as a loss is a loss, Cincy is five and a half point underdogs going to this game on Thursday night.
Yeah, and this is this is where it shifts, because I said, this is not hindsight, This isn't me looking at it.
From orange and black colored glasses.
Losing to the Packers in my mind was expected, like I wanted to see them play better, but tough team on the road. Joe Flacker has been there for four and a half days. Basically a tough ask. But you make that move for Joe Flacco so you can one be more competitive, but two win games like Thursday night against the Pittsburgh team and obviously knows Joe well, you know the Steelers well, and if you win, you can get right back in this because the.
AFC North stinks. Really, the AFC for the most part hasn't been as good as people thought.
And so that door is cracked. But it slams shut with a loss or you can open with a win. Yeah, and that's the reality for the Bengals right now.
It feels certainly you look by the way you described it must went on Thursday and to beat the Steelers in the division, especially at this chance having him at home now it is a short week. Of course, that's always bad. Maybe it's not because now Joe Flackow, he's been a bit of a rhythm right now, and you look again in a rhythm in the second half, I mean, he threw some really tight balls, particularly to Jamar Chase. Jamar Chase blew up that touchdown to the head. I
still don't know how you got that. I still don't know how that wasn't a flag, by the way, but you felt like, Wow, finally somebody who given a little bit of time and credits to the offensive line there can find the deep ball, can hitch him our Chase can hit Ti Higgins and maybe we got something there.
Yeah, that's that's it. That's exactly it is. I I came away from that game. My biggest takeaway was, all Right, they have a guy at quarterbacks. I have a guy at quarterback that can make the throws. He can get it to their weapons. And this team scott is built around their offense. Like if they're going to be good, their offense needs to be good. Their offense should be better than the defense. Like that's just that's how they're
going to win games. And so that second half, I mean, they might have scored three straight touchdowns if andre Josavash doesn't dropped that.
Ball on third and eight. Let it go through his hands. They were moving it and so yeah.
I think that there's there's reason to be hope, hopeful, yep. And I think that they're going to be encouraged by that. But again, now it's now the pressure really is on. This is akitsh and sink. You throw the kitch and sink. You throw every play, every everything to get a win.
On Thursday night, you mentioned Yosha and Yoshi really struggled last year. It was not a good game for him.
He did, he did, and.
Those are the type of plays like, especially on the road, you quarterback make a catch, you're you're trying to rally back like you You have to have those kind of plays to have a chance.
And yeah, if he didn't need those plays on the field, who knows. Who knows what ends up happening.
You wonder two end of the half, what if it would look that much? It's okay, so you're in the go to locker room. It's ten nothing. You go to locker room ten three and a touchdown. You've got a little momentum there. McPherson hitting the crossbar from sixty seven,
which had been an NFL rocker. That was when Curl hits a crossbar goes in and oh wait, we called time out right before a fortuitous icing of the kicker because obviously the second one wasn't long enough and it was wide right, he just got a little too much under it. But man, we could I think it. You don't want to say, hey, what what could have? Should have?
Could have had?
Mean if Joe Burrow didn't go down, we probably would't have this conversation. Is the fact that, man, I just that felt to me, like, boy, you go in to the locker room and getting three back and hey we're only down seven, And then the way they looked in the second half, that could have been a different outcome.
It could have.
Is the heck of a time out by that before it really was because I don't know if do you think you need to ice the kicker at sixty seventy yards? Is it better just to to let him kick it? Clearly it was better to take the time.
Out, But you're not taking your time outs in the half? Am I mean? Okay? What do you lose my calling time out?
No doubt, no doubt.
And that's it. That's why you do it.
But geeh, like I uh, I wish honestly, I wish Evan didn't get to kick that first one, right because I think he kicked the first one and made it and then I don't know.
It almost changes your mindset.
And I'm not just saying he said that or felt that way, but like, it just felt different with that second been.
Shot.
Again, if the angle the holes a half degree off, it's going to change it from that far. So you know, it may not have been the hold because in the state could have been a million things. But yeah, now, had he missed it and then hit the second one, we'd be high five in each other right now, and
maybe the Bengals would have done something. But that was the most Bengal thing of the game I think is that he makes it from sixty seven, they call the time out and he misses the sixty seven yard or But nonetheless, I thought first half defense played good enough to win Trey Hendrickson leading to the back injury. Things change after Trey Hendrickson wasn't rushing the passer anymore.
Yep, that might have been all these game deciding plays. You know, third and eight and you have Jordan Love with over four seconds to throw the ball and then he finds Matt Golden when the Bengals had trimmed the lead to twenty four to eighteen. And if they get a stop there, they're getting the ball. Yeah, but my goodness, sound nice. Wouldn't bet to have Trey Hendrickson on the field? I really hope it isn't serious, because you talk about pass to winning games. They just don't have a lot
of playmakers on defense right now, Scotty. So without Trey, without Trey, you're working around that. Who's going to make a play And there's just there's not many guys that you could confidently they would raise their hand and be able to actually go out there.
And there's but does anyone miss more tackles than Jordan Bell? I mean it was fair most games and Cam Taylor brit has just been bad for a long time now, and I mean he's bench leading up to the game, and uh, it's just you look at it and go, there's two fun a firm of the guys that want to make a play. I mean tackling. That's not the easiest thing, but it's the most basic thing you watch
a Bengals game. How many guys get xtra yards after initial contact you could probably count on one hand, or in the course of the game where the person make initial contact brings down the target.
Yeah, it's it's frustrating.
And I thought it was interesting that the Bengals weren't with two rookie linebackers as well.
Yeah that game.
Yeah, and Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight, And I don't want to be the bear bad news, but I don't think he's the one played well. I see, Josh Jacobs had his best game of the year, averaging over yards to carry. Obviously the two touchdowns on the one touchdown run, I mean he was pretty pretty untouched after getting through the defensive a front and that can't happen. So, yeah, you mentioned it, Cam Taylor Bridge, Jordan Battle and then you throw in those guys and not much of a
pass rush. Yeah, And it's just it's a really tough go of it right now, and so who knows. I think Shamar Stewart has a chance to play this week, and maybe Trey Hendrickson can fight through it.
And if you have those two.
Guys, maybe you will have somewhat of a pass rush against.
Aaron Rodgers, James Rapine back to the corners and starting two rookies at linebacker. Demetrius Night. Okay, we saw Demetrius, but bred Carter in for Logan. What happened to Logan Wilson over the last couple I mean, I think he was just on kickoff.
I think, yeah, he was in on bass downs when they were playing three linebackers and then special teams. He had one snap in the second half, And honestly, I don't think he's like he has lost the step.
There's no doubt.
Yeah, But I don't think he's been so bad that now he's just phased out. And I think that's a really interesting storyline that's transpired over I mean, it's week six it's not Week sixteen, right, And you know, has Barrett Hardner showed.
Them that much?
Now, if you look at the box score, played well, he had ten tackles.
But I.
Think when they watched the.
Film, they're going to look at those linebackers and say, all right, we were pretty bad in that spot. But it is saying something that Logan Wilson has kind of throughout the past couple of weeks been phased out and now he's truly their third linebacker. It's tough about to be in for the veteran, especially after he was voted captain. And that's the reality, that's what he's facing. I would expect Bret Carter and Demetrius Knight to start again on Thursday.
Yeah, I would think so too. But man, I watch you watch a little bit. Because you get the multiview going on TV. They can watch different games that I'm watching Aaron Rodgers yesterday and he you know, especially with no Trey Hendrickson, Boy, you're asking that line and that defense to do a lot that they don't look like they're capable of as of today.
Uh, there's no doubt. And and that's why.
Starting off with points and finding a way to get going early on offense, that that is important because the Steelers, they're not a team that wants to win a shoot.
Out either, right, They're kind of out.
They want to play, you know, the ugly game that they played yesterday and then I'll break it open at the end. The that's pretty much their game script every week. And so this offense has to show up early. They're going up against a really good defensive front. The Steelers
defensive front's awesome. Jalen Ramsey has been playing pretty well I think in Pittsburgh at corner, and so it's going to be a tough task, a tough test, and it really can you get a lead, and then if you get a lead, the Steelers an't good at running the football.
Force Aaron Rodgers to throw it, and when he does, you're.
Gonna have to get pressure on him. Like it's all simple things. It's much easier said than done. But those are some of the things that they're gonna have to do.
Well.
We'll find out that Thursday, and it's a quick week and unfortunately we're gonna have time to get healthy too, because you got some guys being a Trey Hendrickson comes to minds the biggest there as well. And man, you feel like this is the season right here? Am I wrong about thinking it that way on Thursday night? Already?
No? You're not. This is it? I mean two in five verses three and four.
And if you get to three and four, then you have a tie breaker over the Steelers and you play him again a month later, right, and so you can you have to sleep Pittsburgh. If you sleep Pittsburgh, and you look and you got the Jets on the schedule, You got the winnable games on the schedule in your home.
You don't go on the road again.
It's been a lot of road games, I mean four out of six on the road, right, you don't go on the road again until November sixteenth when you play Pittsburgh and there's a.
Buy in there, but you're at home.
This is when, like Zach Taylor for the past, but the winds are gonna come. The winds are gonna come. Well, the winds need to come right now. They do, and now's the time, and they can they can salvage the season if they've went on Thursday night. But it certainly starts with a winner on primetime against the Steelers.
Big ask, we'll find out. We'll have the call for you. James Rapines covering it for you as he does every Monday morning, so chopping it up before the lunch. How we're always talking to Bengals football this morning on the losing end, that's four straight losses. Bengal's open at five and a half point dogs against the Steelers on Thursday Night football, James Repeat, catch him over at SI's Bengals
Talk dot Com. That puts a lockdown podcast as well. James, all the best, Buddy, appreciate you, Thanks, G.
I appreciate you all right.
Quick time out speaking of sports and the like, of course, the news this morning that the Bearcat the ledgend, the Hall of Famer Jim Kelly Junior has passed away, the long time color analysts for Bearcat Football alongside our buddy Dan Horde, passing away today after his health battle. So prayers to everyone a UC and Clifton, especially the Alley family and UH and Danny for that matter, took newnack gay for a long time.
UH.
Willie's on the way coming up at twelve o six here on the Home of the Best Bengals coverage, seven hundred W DOWT, Cincinnati