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School of War

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This podcast seeks to learn what war teaches. There has been a steady decline in the study of military history and its associated theoretical discipline, strategy.This podcast seeks to fill that gap through in-depth interviews on military and diplomatic history. Our guests have included former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, the Cold War historian John Lewis Gaddis, and former China Select Committee chairman Mike Gallagher. We discuss the battlefield commanders, diplomats, strategists, policymakers, and statesmen who have had to make wartime decisions in the ancient and modern eras. The subject of an episode may be an historical battle, campaign, or conflict; the conduct of policy in the course of a major international incident; the work of a famous strategist; the nature of a famous weapon; or the legacy of an important military commander or political leader.   Aaron MacLean is a senior fellow at Hudson Institute. He has worked as a foreign policy advisor and legislative director to Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas and spent seven years in the U.S. Marine Corps. Visit our Substack for episode transcripts Follow along on Instagram

Episodes

Ep 143: Sabin Howard on WWI, Art, and Honoring Veterans

Sabin Howard, sculptor of A Soldier’s Journey, the central feature of the new World War I Memorial in Washington, DC, joins the show to talk about his work and the art of memorializing war and honoring veterans. ▪️ Times • 01:50 Introduction • 02:07 Becoming an artist • 07:03 Spiritually classical • 10:04 WWI • 14:24 Getting it right • 18:35 Daughter and father • 21:37 The ordeal • 25:00 The charging man • 28:18 Modern methods • 33:52 Aftermath • 41:11 Return • 51:00 Excite and engage Follow alo...

Sep 13, 202459 min

Ep 142: Andrew Roberts Debunks Darryl Cooper on Winston Churchill

Andrew Roberts, author of Churchill: Walking with Destiny, joins the show to give his thoughts on Tucker Carlson’s controversial guest Darryl Cooper. ▪️ Times • 01:25 Introduction • 02:34 Churchill the villain • 05:20 Pat Buchanan • 08:57 Dragging America into war • 14:50 Barbarossa • 20:06 “Mr. Cooper simply can’t have read Mein Kampf…” • 21:37 Terror bombings • 24:19 Dog whistles • 26:11 Founding mythology Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Subs...

Sep 10, 202429 min

Ep 141: Matt Pottinger on the Defense of Taiwan (Boiling Moat #1)

Matt Pottinger, distinguished visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution, Chairman of FDD’s China Program, and author of The Boiling Moat: Urgent Steps to Defend Taiwan, joins the show to talk about how a war over Taiwan might start and how it may be prevented. ▪️ Times • 01:13 Introduction • 03:11 The Boiling Moat • 04:54 Is Xi serious? • 11:35 How to deter China • 17:40 Out with the old, in with the new • 24:30 Mapping the scenarios • 30:14 No such thing as an accidental war • 35:44 A cognitive...

Sep 03, 202443 min

Ep 140: Roger Wicker on Defense Spending and Peace through Strength

Senator Roger Wicker of Mississippi, ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, joins the show to discuss his plan to spend five percent of America’s GDP on defense. Click the link to read more Peace through Strength: A Generational Investment in the U.S. Military ▪️ Times • 01:31 Introduction • 01:40 Service years • 04:39 3% vs 5% • 9:00 Peace through Strength • 12:50 More money, more problems? • 16:40 “Let’s get some more shipyards…” • 19:37 Modernizing the nuclear arsenal • 23:14 ...

Aug 27, 202424 min

Ep 139: Kenneth F. McKenzie Jr. on CENTCOM

General Kenneth F. McKenzie, USMC, retired as the fourteenth commander of U.S. Central Command in 2022 and is the author of The Melting Point: High Command and War in the 21st Century (https://a.co/d/a2RmIDK). He joins the show to talk about the strategic significance of the Middle East. ▪️ Times • 01:16 Introduction • 01:38 The Citadel • 04:15 The humanities • 10:00 Central Command • 13:43 Thinking globally • 17:53 Iran pushes back • 23:05 Pursuing peace • 26:15 Afghanistan • 32:01 Collapse • 3...

Aug 20, 202441 min

Ep 138: Joshua S. Treviño on the Southern Border Crisis

Joshua S. Treviño, Chief of Intelligence and Research and the Director for Texas Identity at the Texas Public Policy Foundation, joins the show to talk about the crisis on the U.S. southern border. ▪️ Times • 01:28 Introduction • 02:03 “The border itself is insecure…” • 06:06 Immigration is not the issue • 08:58 Texas remembers • 21:44 The Mexican side • 31:34 WWI in Mexico • 32:25 PRC and cartels • 39:24 DoD and the border • 44:01 “A sincere security partner…” • 46:03 The Caroline affair Follow...

Aug 13, 202449 min

Ep 137: Richard Frank on Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and World War II’s Endgame

Richard Frank, historian and author of Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire and Tower of Skulls: A History of the Asia-Pacific War: July 1937-May 1942, joins the show to talk about the controversial legacy of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. ▪️ Times • 02:05 Introduction • 02:15 Soldier/Lawyer/Historian • 09:19 Early controversy • 14:55 Counting all the dead • 21:54 Contemplating invasion • 30:10 1:1 ratio, recipe for a bloodbath • 38:03 Why unconditional surrender? • ...

Aug 06, 202458 min

Ep 136: Ronald C. White on Joshua Chamberlain

Ronald C. White, Senior Fellow at the Trinity Forum and author of On Great Fields: The Life and Unlikely Heroism of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, joins the show to talk about the hero of Little Round Top, Joshua L. Chamberlain. ▪️ Times • 01:37 Introduction • 01:51 Why Chamberlain? • 09:01 Fighting for the Union • 14:05 The 20th Maine • 18:10 Arriving at Gettysburg • 21:34 The 15th & 47th Alabama • 24:25 “Bayonets” • 29:31 Fighting for Grant • 33:40 Appomattox • 35:53 Home • 29:31 Battle Cry ...

Aug 02, 202443 min

Ep 135: Rich Goldberg on Israel‘s Northern Crisis

Rich Goldberg, senior advisor at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, joins the show to talk about the expanding war between Israel and Iran. ▪️ Times • 01:40 Introduction • 03:30 Where things stand • 15:25 Israeli expectations • 24:44 Retaliation • 31:39 Iran’s strategic concept • 36:16 American interests • 44:20 Projection • 50:36 Once Iran has nuclear weapons Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack...

Jul 30, 202453 min

Ep 134: Michael Sobolik on China’s Geostrategy

Michael Sobolik, author of Countering China's Great Game: A Strategy for American Dominance and Senior Fellow in Indo-Pacific Studies at the American Foreign Policy Council, joins the show to talk about China. ▪️ Times • 01:38 Introduction • 04:29 Belt and Road • 07:54 The Beginning • 13:12 Chinese imperialism • 20:50 Mackinder’s math • 25:19 Nazi geostrategic thinking • 28:21 Spykman and BRI • 31:42 Imperialism is not a relic • 35:43 Countering China • 40:40 Tracing BRI back to Beijing • 46:55 ...

Jul 23, 202450 min

Ep 133: James Holland on World War II in Italy, 1943

James Holland, author of The Savage Storm: The Battle for Italy 1943 and host of the We Have Ways of Making You Talk podcast, joins the show to talk about the Allied campaign in Italy. ▪️ Times • 02:08 Introduction • 04:23 “No greater moment of human drama…” • 11:08 Why go into Italy at all? • 18:24 Mission to Rome • 29:33 Baytown and Avalanche • 32:10 Salerno • 36:25 rethinking Mark Clark • 40:50 Very hard fighting Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of ...

Jul 19, 202444 min

Ep 132: Michael Kofman on the Battlefield in Ukraine (War in Ukraine #4)

Michael Kofman, Senior Fellow, Russia and Eurasia Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and contributor to War in Ukraine: Conflict, Strategy, and the Return of a Fractured World, joins the show to talk about the operational phases of the war in Ukraine. ▪️ Times • 01:28 Introduction • 02:14 A case of “Two Wars” • 09:37 Operating on assumptions • 14:54 Contingency and structure • 23:41 Figuring things out in the field • 31:22 Cyber is overhyped • 39:56 Achieving a favorable o...

Jul 16, 202448 min

Ep 131: Thomas Mahnken on Strategic Fallacies (War in Ukraine #3)

Thomas Mahnken, President and CEO of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments and contributor to War in Ukraine: Conflict, Strategy, and the Return of a Fractured World, joins the show to talk about how strategic fallacies have played a role in Ukraine. ▪️ Times • 01:33 Introduction • 02:30 Fallacies of rationality • 05:36 Is war irrational? • 10:02 Germany willed WWI to happen • 15:40 Fallacy of the irrational/hyper-rational adversary • 22:53 Rational/irrational Hitler • 28:09 Wrapped...

Jul 09, 202455 min

Ep 130: John Spencer on Israel’s Unprecedented War (or, Urban Warfare 101)

John Spencer, chair of urban warfare studies at the Modern War Institute and host of the Urban Warfare Project, joins the show to talk about urban combat and how Israel is fighting an unprecedented war against Hamas with justice and humanity. ▪️ Times • 01:50 Introduction • 02:08 Fighting and teaching • 09:31 Changes in urban warfare • 17:14 Terrain still matters • 21:54 Israel’s unprecedented war • 26:11 Learning on the ground • 33:24 Genocide • 43:57 The battle of Manila • 49:41 Suffering is t...

Jul 02, 202459 min

Ep 129: Frank Gavin on Nuclear Strategy and Ukraine (War in Ukraine #2)

Frank Gavin, the Giovanni Agnelli Distinguished Professor and inaugural director of the Henry A. Kissinger Center for Global Affairs at Johns Hopkins SAIS and contributor to War in Ukraine: Conflict, Strategy, and the Return of a Fractured World, joins the show to talk about nuclear strategy and the war in Ukraine. ▪️ Times • 01:36 Introduction • 01:53 What are nuclear weapons for? • 04:15 Pervasive but not used • 09:53 Invasion insurance • 17:58 Better to be near-nuclear • 22:26 How might Putin...

Jun 25, 202453 min

Ep 128: Stephen Kotkin on Russia and Ukraine (War in Ukraine #1)

Stephen Kotkin, Kleinheinz Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution and contributor to War in Ukraine: Conflict, Strategy, and the Return of a Fractured World, joins the show to talk about the war in Ukraine and what the endgame might look like. ▪️ Times • 02:24 Introduction • 05:09 Four victories • 11:48 “Winning only on Twitter” • 22:36 10/7 and Ukraine • 28:27 Regime change in Russia • 37:03 Keeping allies • 45:24 Renting land armies • 55:01 “European culturally but not Western” Follow along o...

Jun 18, 202459 min

Ep 127: Robert Blackwill & Richard Fontaine on the Failed Pivot to Asia

Robert Blackwill & Richard Fontaine, authors of Lost Decade: The US Pivot to Asia and the Rise of Chinese Power, join the show to talk about America’s failed pivot to Asia and why they think it still needs to happen. ▪️ Times • 01:59 Introduction • 03:10 Was the pivot serious? • 07:40 Absent compulsion • 13:25 War in Europe? • 22:46 Changes to the plan • 28:28 A bigger budget • 32:23 Domestic resistance to TPP • 38:25 The ultimate goal • 44:36 Why not regime change in China? • 51:08 Henry Ki...

Jun 11, 202454 min

Ep 126: Michel Paradis on D-Day and Eisenhower

Michel Paradis—litigator, national security law scholar, and author of The Light of Battle: Eisenhower, D-Day, and the Birth of the American Superpower—joins the show to talk about D-Day and the man behind the invasion, Dwight Eisenhower. ▪️ Times • 01:49 Introduction • 01:56 “Wildly under appreciated” • 05:17 Upbringing • 11:40 Seeing the world as it is • 15:01 Not that long ago • 22:14 British vs American plans • 32:50 Using strategic advantages • 36:03 Designing D-Day • 46:58 Planning for fai...

Jun 04, 202450 min

Ep 125: Nick Bunker on America and the Early Cold War

Nick Bunker, journalist and author of In the Shadow of Fear: America and the World in 1950, joins the show to talk about the first decade of the Cold War. ▪️ Times • 01:36 Introduction • 02:26 Countdown to war • 05:17 Biden and Truman • 09:05 A failure of American policy? • 13:09 Present at the Creation • 21:16 Stalin’s view of the world • 25:50 Stalin and China • 30:44 Developing nuclear thinking • 32:39 Robert Taft • 38:01 No choice but to defend Korea • 46:44 NSC-68 Follow along on Instagram ...

May 28, 202453 min

Ep 124: Shane Brennan on Xenophon and Leadership

Shane Brennan, Associate Professor of History and Classics at the Asian University for Women in Bangladesh and author of Xenophon's Anabasis: A Socratic History, joins the show to talk about why the Anabasis remains an important part of the Western canon of military writing. ▪️ Times • 01:30 Introduction • 02:05 Dubai to Bangladesh • 05:37 Xenophon’s start • 09:25 Several levels of failure • 12:37 “An exemplary Socratic student” • 14:40 Fighting for the Persians • 17:18 Cyrus the Younger • 20:46...

May 21, 202446 min

Ep 123: Sergey Radchenko on Soviet Motivations in the Cold War

Sergey Radchenko, Wilson E. Schmidt Distinguished Professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and author of To Run the World: The Kremlin's Cold War Bid for Global Power, joins the show to talk about the strategic aims of the U.S.S.R. during the Cold War and how the Soviets attempted to run the world. ▪️ Times • 01:17 Introduction • 02:32 A novel argument • 08:36 Power and recognition • 11:51 Who started the Cold War? • 14:55 The American dilemma • 17:09 Fukuyama • 21...

May 14, 202450 min

Ep 122: Mike Gallagher and Matt Pottinger on a Victory Strategy for China

Mike Gallagher and Matt Pottinger join the show to discuss their recent Foreign Affairs essay on the need for a victory strategy in America’s cold war with China. ▪️ Times • 01:53 Introduction • 03:25 Meeting in Iraq • 07:43 “There are bad guys…” • 13:15 Why detente isn’t working • 23:45 Real statesmanship? • 32:12 Rearm/Reduce/Recruit • 35:20 TikTok Follow along on Instagram Read the Foreign Affairs piece here No Substitute for Victory America’s Competition With China Must Be Won, Not Managed F...

May 07, 202437 min

Ep 121: Andy Lowery on Drones and Directed Energy

Andy Lowery, CEO of EPIRUS and a retired U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander, joins the show to talk about directed energy weapons on the modern battlefield. ▪️ Times • 01:45 Introduction • 02:02 Before EPIRUS • 06:29 Drones on the battlefield • 13:30 Current countermeasures • 19:40 An answer for autonomy • 21:32 How does it all work? • 29:54 Beam specs • 33:45 Sci-fi but familiar • 38:11 Gallium nitride • 40:31 Cat and mouse game Follow along on Instagram Find a transcript of today’s episode on our ...

Apr 30, 202448 min

Ep 120: Iskander Rehman on the Emperor Tiberius and American Primacy

Iskander Rehman, Ax:son Johnson Fellow at the Johns Hopkins SAIS Kissinger Center and author of Iron Imperator: Roman Grand Strategy Under Tiberius, joins the show to talk about the military career and statecraft of Tiberius and what his career has to teach us today. ▪️ Times • 02:32 Introduction • 03:29 The Pentagon and Rome • 07:29 Why Tiberius? • 15:04 Parallels • 18:26 Germania • 22:38 Roman criticism • 28:03 Auxiliaries and proxies • 32:09 Diplomacy and a recruitment crisis • 34:00 A brilli...

Apr 23, 202444 min

Ep 119: Yaroslav Trofimov on the War in Ukraine

Yaroslav Trofimov, chief foreign-affairs correspondent at The Wall Street Journal and author of Our Enemies Will Vanish: The Russian Invasion and Ukraine's War of Independence, joins the show to talk about the early days of Russia’s war in Ukraine, how the battlefield has evolved, and where the war may be headed. ▪️ Times • 01:48 Introduction • 02:06 Growing up Ukranian • 05:03 The collapse of Kabul • 07:40 Leadership counts • 10:14 Zelensky • 16:20 How did Putin get Ukraine so wrong? • 19:49 To...

Apr 16, 202445 min

Ep 118: Michael Doran on Is Hamas Winning?

Michael Doran, Senior Fellow and Director of the Center for Peace and Security in the Middle East at the Hudson Institute and co-host of the podcast Counterbalance, joins the show to talk about the Israel-Hamas war and the broader regional competition with Iran. ▪️ Times • 02:04 Introduction • 04:01 Is Hamas winning? • 10:29 Fighting the clocks • 13:10 Defeat from the jaws of victory • 18:24 An Iranian-American conflict • 22:44 Managing decline • 26:40 Lessons not learned • 33:00 The Iranian nuc...

Apr 09, 202437 min

Ep 117: Shlomo Brody on the Ethics of War

Rabbi Shlomo Brody, executive director of Ematai and author of Ethics of Our Fighters: A Jewish View on War and Morality, joins the show to talk about the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas and the Jewish tradition of military ethics. ▪️ Times • 01:28 Introduction • 04:04 Just war • 07:27 The Bible as a framework • 13:34 International service • 18:33 Reprisals • 21:37 Purity of arms • 27:09 Collateral damage • 33:41 International law • 35:48 Proportionality • 39:40 A dangerous ideology Follow ...

Apr 02, 202446 min

Ep 116: David Stahel on Guderian and Hitler’s Panzer Generals

David Stahel, associate professor of history at the University of New South Wales and author of Hitler's Panzer Generals: Guderian, Hoepner, Reinhardt and Schmidt Unguarded, joins the show to talk about Heinz Guderian, the myth and the man. ▪️ Times • 01:38 Introduction • 02:57 Diving into the letters • 08:43 Debunking • 15:30 A sinister figure • 19:39 Achtung - Panzer! • 27:37 Guderian the Nazi • 33:42 Poland and France • 45:49 Russia • 50:50 Barbarossa bound to fail? • 54:48 Guderian the chame...

Mar 26, 20241 hr 3 min

Ep 115: Stephen Robinson on the Case against John Boyd

Stephen Robinson, author of The Blind Strategist: John Boyd and the American Art of War, joins the show to talk about Boyd, the man who developed the concept of “maneuver warfare,” and what Boyd may have gotten wrong. ▪️ Times • 01:21 Introduction • 02:24 “A genuine polymath” • 04:20 The OODA Loop • 07:39 J.F.C. Fuller and B.H. Liddell Hart • 13:28 The conventional blitzkrieg • 19:26 Maneuver warfare • 25:01 Cannae • 29:07 Tactical success to operational failure • 34:07 Post-Vietnam U.S. militar...

Mar 19, 202456 min

Ep 114: Eric Edelman on the Foundations of Nuclear Strategy (New Makers of Modern Strategy #11)

Eric Edelman, former Under Secretary of Defense for Policy and Ambassador to Turkey and Finland, joins the show to talk about how nuclear strategic thinking began and how those debates resonate today. ▪️ Times • 01:47 Introduction • 02:45 Oppenheimer’s Borden in reality • 07:00 Brodie and The Absolute Power • 11:12 Deterrence before Hiroshima • 13:15 Blackett and Fear, War, and the Bomb • 19:40 Counter-value vs counter-force • 37:33 Russian nuclear strategy • 42:44 Extended deterrence • 52:37 Pa...

Mar 12, 202457 min
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