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School of War

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This podcast seeks to learn what war teaches. There has been a steady decline in the study of military history and its associated theoretical discipline, strategy.This podcast seeks to fill that gap through in-depth interviews on military and diplomatic history. Our guests have included former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, the Cold War historian John Lewis Gaddis, and former China Select Committee chairman Mike Gallagher. We discuss the battlefield commanders, diplomats, strategists, policymakers, and statesmen who have had to make wartime decisions in the ancient and modern eras. The subject of an episode may be an historical battle, campaign, or conflict; the conduct of policy in the course of a major international incident; the work of a famous strategist; the nature of a famous weapon; or the legacy of an important military commander or political leader.   Aaron MacLean is a senior fellow at Hudson Institute. He has worked as a foreign policy advisor and legislative director to Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas and spent seven years in the U.S. Marine Corps. Visit our Substack for episode transcripts Follow along on Instagram

Episodes

Ep 203: Stephen Rabe on the Invasion of Normandy

Stephen Rabe, historian and author of The Lost Paratroopers of Normandy: A Story of Resistance, Courage, and Solidarity in a French Village, joins the show to discuss one of the countless, incredible stories from D-Day. ▪️ Times • 01:18 Introduction • 01:25 Marine • 02:50 Origins • 06:48 Normandy • 09:29 507th • 15:20 Training • 18:23 Overlord • 21:21 The Villagers • 25:20 A change in plans • 30:07 HQ Battalion • 36:17 Armageddon • 39:00 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division • 44:01 Staying behind • ...

Jun 06, 202551 min

Ep 202: Fred Kagan on Ukraine’s Attack and the Future of War

Fred Kagan, senior fellow and the director of the Critical Threats Project at AEI, joins the show to discuss Ukraine’s drone operation targeting Russia’s strategic air assets. ▪️ Times • 01:46 Introduction • 02:25 What just happened? • 07:48 Escalation risk • 10:20 Control • 12:39 Implications • 21:10 Stratagems • 24:04 Effects • 30:40 Economic pressure • 37:20 Continuing operations Follow along on Instagram, X @schoolofwarpod, and YouTube @SchoolofWarPodcast Find a transcript of today’s episode...

Jun 03, 202543 min

Ep 201: Zachary Griffiths & McKinsey Harb on the U.S. Army

Lt. Col. Zachary Griffiths & Maj. McKinsey Harb joined the show to discuss the U.S. Army’s new Field Manual 1, FM 1 -THE ARMY: A PRIMER TO OUR PROFESSION OF ARMS. ▪️ Times • 01:22 Introduction • 01:51 West Point • 05:43 Culture shift • 08:50 FM 1 • 12:00 Ben Salomon • 18:06 Warrior • 24:04 Tensions • 31:05 Recruiting • 35:18 Leader/follower • 42:19 Mission command

May 30, 202546 min

Ep 200: Rick Atkinson on the American Revolution at 250

Rick Atkinson, historian and author of The Fate of the Day: The War for America, Fort Ticonderoga to Charleston, 1777-1780, joins the show to discuss the causes, conduct, and epic consequences of the American Revolution. ▪️ Times • 02:08 Introduction • 02:21 Journalism • 04:30 Mogadishu • 09:30 Lessons • 12:49 Ideology • 16:36 Diplomacy • 20:21 Boston • 22:59 “Blows must decide” • 28:05 British strategy • 31:27 Washington • 36:49 Franklin in Paris • 41:15 Friendless Britain • 45:57 Legacy • 51:2...

May 27, 202554 min

Ep 199: Jonathan Hackett on Our Failures in Iraq & Afghanistan

Jonathan Hackett, former U.S. Marine Corps interrogator and author of Theory of Irregular War, joins the show to discuss America’s post-9/11 wars and how irregular warfare works. ▪️ Times • 01:12 Introduction • 01:30 A good interrogator • 03:26 Afghanistan • 06:15 In the interrogation room • 12:10 The Reid Technique • 14:27 Galula • 17:10 A military solution • 23:32 Voluntary acceptance • 25:34 Irregular War • 28:20 The war we have • 31:33 COIN • 36:10 Speaking the language Follow along on Insta...

May 23, 202541 min

Ep 198: Robert D. Kaplan on Crisis

Robert D. Kaplan, Robert Strausz-Hupé Chair in Geopolitics at the Foreign Policy Research Institute and author of Waste Land: A World in Permanent Crisis, joins the show to discuss the world’s current state of “permanent crisis”. ▪️ Times • 01:40 Introduction • 02:00 Far Rockaway • 04:55 Balkan Ghosts • 08:20 Geography and technology • 10:55 Weimar • 13:43 Mediocrities • 17:44 Reading deeply • 20:30 Shakespeare • 23:20 Where to watch • 26:59 Xi and Taiwan • 28:39 Sacred honor • 31:22 Post-modern...

May 20, 202538 min

Ep 197: Mick Ryan on the Ukrainian Battlefield

Mick Ryan, retired major general in the Australian Army and author of The War for Ukraine: Strategy and Adaptation Under Fire, joins the show to discuss the evolving battlefield and cycles of change and innovation going on in Ukraine. ▪️ Times • 01:35 Introduction • 02:17 Touring the front • 05:11 No place safe • 07:01 Change • 11:24 Wire guided drones • 15:31 Task organization • 20:38 Drone defense • 22:49 Is artillery dead? • 26:39 Rethinking procurement • 30:34 2014 • 33:07 Putin’s objectives...

May 13, 202542 min

Ep 196: Thomas Bruscino and Mitchell G. Klingenberg on Mapping Warfare

Thomas Bruscino, professor at the U.S. Army War College, and Mitchell G. Klingenberg, assistant professor at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, join the show to discuss their article "Making War Upon the Map" The U.S. Army’s Forgotten Map Problem, Meade’s Gettysburg Campaign, and Depicting Operational Art. ▪️ Times • 02:05 Introduction • 03:12 What’s missing? • 06:17 A modern problem • 09:27 Meade takes command • 11:29 Seeing both sides • 15:41 South Mountain • 22:54 Lee’s mistakes...

May 09, 202551 min

Ep 195: John Hillen on Strategic Thinking

John Hillen, James C. Wheat Professor in Leadership at Hampden-Sydney College and author of The Strategy Dialogues: A Primer on Business Strategy and Strategic Management, joins the show to talk about how to think strategically in war, business, and life. ▪️ Times • 01:55 Introduction • 02:31 An Army start • 05:17 Cold War ends • 10:14 The Gulf • 13:15 Changing styles • 18:00 73 Easting • 22:59 Policy and business • 26:09 Strategos • 29:04 In the doing • 32:17 Inside out & outside in • 36:41...

May 06, 202547 min

Ep 194: Mark Moyar on the Vietnam War

Mark Moyar, William P. Harris Chair of Military History at Hillsdale College and author of Triumph Regained: The Vietnam War, 1965-1968, joins the show to explain the major inflection points of the Vietnam War. ▪️ Times • 01:58 Introduction • 02:47 The “orthodox view” • 05:51 Dominos • 08:41 A Maoist vision • 12:42 1963 • 15:30 Henry Cabot Lodge • 21:10 Slow erosion • 24:57 Ground troops • 30:10 Morale • 33:39 Nixon in office • 37:30 Triangular diplomacy • 39:31 Vietnamization fails • 43:09 Amer...

May 02, 202554 min

Ep 193: Douglas Murray on Israel’s War and its Global Consequences

Douglas Murray, journalist and author of On Democracies and Death Cults: Israel and the Future of Civilization, joins the show for a wide ranging conversation that covers Death Cults, anti-Semitism, and recent shifts in the Right. ▪️ Times • 01:42 Introduction • 03:00 9/11 origins • 09:50 It’s not 1939 • 13:45 Death cults • 19:16 “I’m not a fascist, I’m an idealist.” • 23:51 Vasily Grossman • 37:05 What’s going on with the Right? • 49:07 Nostalgia for the absolute • 54:10 Regaining balance Follo...

Apr 29, 202556 min

Ep 192: Raymond Jonas on Europe’s War on the Monroe Doctrine (~165 years ago)

Raymond Jonas, Jon Bridgman Endowed Professor in History at the University of Washington and author of Habsburgs on the Rio Grande: The Rise and Fall of the Second Mexican Empire, joins the show to discuss a failed-but-spectacular 19th Century attempt by European powers to undermine the Monroe Doctrine. ▪️ Times • 01:42 Introduction • 03:31 Transatlantic relations • 05:20 Europe distracted • 08:39 Secession and unrest • 12:46 Maximillian I • 17:55 Continental powers • 20:01 Britain, France and S...

Apr 25, 202548 min

Ep 191: Mark Dubowitz on Iran and the Trump Administration

Mark Dubowitz, CEO of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and host of The Iran Breakdown podcast, joins the show to discuss the Iranian nuclear program, where things stand with the Trump administration’s pursuit of a deal, and the prospects of an Israeli attack. ▪️ Times • 01:33 Introduction • 02:04 Beginnings • 04:25 A weapon is the purpose • 07:31 Enrichment • 12:32 JCPOA • 16:54 “The worst deal…” • 18:46 Can Iran reach the U.S.? • 23:53 Dismantle the program • 29:01 Splitscreen • 34:09 ...

Apr 22, 202546 min

Ep 190: Michael Doran on “Restraint” and the Middle East

Michael Doran, senior fellow and director of the Center for Peace and Security in the Middle East at Hudson Institute, joins the show to discuss “restraintism” as a factor in Trump’s choices in the Middle East. ▪️ Times • 01:46 Introduction • 02:20 What is it? • 05:01 Left, right, center • 06:56 Syria ’07 • 11:47 Iraq Study Group • 17:21 Populist expression • 27:34 Balance • 30:20 Obama v Trump • 34:56 Oscillation • 42:16 Back to JCPOA? • 45:49 Snapback • 47:44 Syria ’25 • 52:09 Iran and Turkey ...

Apr 15, 202555 min

Ep 189: Andrew Roberts on October 7th and Antisemitism

Lord Andrew Roberts, the Bonnie and Tom McCloskey Distinguished Visiting Fellow at the Hoover Institution and chair of the 7 October Parliamentary Commission Report, joins the show to discuss October 7th revisionism, the potency of antisemitism, and the strange effort to reinterpret World War II. ▪️ Times • 01:56 Introduction • 02:35 Why? • 03:48 No room for debate • 05:34 Not “accidental” • 16:13 Cooper’s conclusions • 20:13 Peace with Hitler • 22:53 Destroying the foundation • 25:06 Free speec...

Apr 11, 202532 min

Ep 188: Jonathan Horn on MacArthur and the Battle for the Philippines

Jonathan Horn, former White House speechwriter and author of The Fate of the Generals: MacArthur, Wainwright, and the Epic Battle for the Philippines, joins the show to discuss the defeats, victories, and legacies of Douglas MacArthur and Jonathan Wainwright, the highest-ranking American POW of WWII. ▪️ Times • 01:56 Introduction • 04:36 Arthur MacArthur • 09:33 The Philippines • 16:13 Wainwright • 18:20 War Plan Orange • 27:06 Crisis • 32:34 MacArthur leaves • 35:20 Bataan and surrender • 43:18...

Apr 08, 202553 min

Ep 187: Richard Fontaine on the “Reverse Kissinger”

Richard Fontaine, CEO of the Center for a New American Security (CNAS) and co-author of No Limits? The China-Russia Relationship and U.S. Foreign Policy, joins the show to discuss Beijing-Moscow cooperation and the prospects of the U.S. driving a wedge between them. ▪️ Times • 02:05 Introduction • 02:21 Sino-Soviet split • 06:20 Spheres of influence • 09:17 Domination • 13:20 Stabilizing effect • 22:15 Xi & Putin • 28:19 Pacific expansion • 35:20 More resources • 41:06 America in, Russians o...

Apr 01, 202547 min

Ep 186: Walter Russell Mead on Trump, Strategy, and Mercantilism

Walter Russell Mead, Alexander Hamilton Professor of Strategy and Statecraft at the University of Florida's Hamilton Center and columnist for The Wall Street Journal, joins the show to talk about the role of economic issues in Trump’s strategic views. ▪️ Times • 01:34 Introduction • 04:09 Mercantilism & physiocracy • 08:50 Silicon Valley • 14:01 Coalitions • 16:26 How things worked • 22:52 Post-war policy & China • 33:17 Tariffs • 42:50 Executive overreach • 45:53 The dollar Follow along...

Mar 25, 202554 minEp. 186

Ep 185: Lara Burns on the Hamas Threat in America

Lara Burns, retired FBI Special Agent and head of terrorism research at the Program on Extremism at The George Washington University, joins the show to talk about how Islamist groups operate in the United States. ▪️ Watch the interview on YouTube - Ep 185: Lara Burns on the Hamas Threat in America ▪️ Times • 01:32 Introduction • 01:48 Terrorism squad • 03:10 The Muslim Brotherhood • 06:20 Hamas • 14:26 The money • 26:03 Oppressors • 32:39 American Muslims for Palestine • 35:18 All connected • 43...

Mar 18, 202557 min

Ep 184: Alexander Burns on the Dawn of the Modern Battlefield

Alexander Burns, Assistant Professor of History at Franciscan University and author of Infantry in Battle 1733-1783 (From Reason to Revolution), joins the show to talk about how combat evolved in the decades between Marlborough and Napoleon. ▪️ Times • 01:45 Introduction • 02:19 1733 • 06:20 Infantry in battle • 10:54 Achieving results • 14:19 Tactical effectivness • 18:40 Prussia • 24:17 More than fear • 29:45 Early nationalism • 33:12 American evolution • 38:50 Drones and prestige Follow along...

Mar 14, 202543 min

Ep 183: Tom Cotton on China

Tom Cotton, U.S. senator from Arkansas and author of Seven Things You Can't Say About China, joins the show to talk about the CCP’s global designs. ▪️ Times • 01:48 Introduction • 02:30 Paying attention • 05:38 Bipartisan • 08:38 Early days • 13:54 Strategic delays • 16:13 An evil empire • 18:45 “What’s it to us?” • 22:04 Lynchpin • 25:24 Splitting the axis • 28:39 China and Ukraine • 34:00 More dangerous Follow along on Instagram, X @schoolofwarpod, and YouTube @SchoolofWarPodcast Find a transc...

Mar 11, 202536 min

Ep 182: Sean McMeekin on Communism

Sean McMeekin, Professor of European History and Culture at Bard College and author of To Overthrow the World: The Rise and Fall and Rise of Communism, joins the show to talk about Communist approaches to foreign policy and war. ▪️ Times • 01:35 Introduction • 02:39 Communism and war • 11:02 Giving history a shove • 16:41 Lenin’s vision • 20:55 A united front • 25:54 Infiltration • 28:45 Stalin at the helm • 34:51 Ups and downs • 41:10 Driving a wedge • 43:37 “We resemble them more than they res...

Mar 04, 202548 min

Ep 181: Michael Cook on the Islamic Conquests

Michael Cook, Professor of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University and author of A History of the Muslim World: From Its Origins to the Dawn of Modernity, joins the show to discuss the sudden, explosive Arab expansion of the 7th century. ▪️ Times • 01:46 Introduction • 03:05 Sources • 04:42 War and politics • 07:32 Grass and sand • 09:30 Self-defense • 12:21 Ibn Khaldun • 16:11 An Arab identity • 18:45 Knock on effects • 26:40 Two targets • 28:32 The Arab way of war • 34:50 Coming out of th...

Feb 28, 202546 min

Ep 180: Stephen Kotkin on Endgames in Ukraine

Stephen Kotkin, Kleinheinz Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, joins the show to discuss how both sides have lost the Ukraine War, and the risks of various routes to peace. ▪️ Times • 02:47 Pressuring Putin • 12:50 A new path • 17:07 Avoiding a debacle • 32:43 Friends • 38:30 Realignment • 46:58 Articulating strategy Follow along on Instagram, X @schoolofwarpod, and YouTube @SchoolofWarPodcast Find a transcript of today’s episode on our School of War Substack...

Feb 25, 202554 min

Ep 179: Phillips O’Brien on Grand Strategy in WW2

Phillips O’Brien, chair of Strategic Studies at the University of St. Andrews and author of The Strategists: Churchill, Stalin, Roosevelt, Mussolini, and Hitler--How War Made Them and How They Made War, joins the show to discuss the nature of strategic decision making in World War II and beyond. ▪️ Times • 01:50 Introduction • 02:48 Germany 1st debunked • 06:50 A matter of choices • 08:20 Management styles • 11:23 FDR the navalist • 14:42 Strategic balance • 16:52 The British Empire • 18:58 Chur...

Feb 21, 202554 min

Ep 178: Mark Montgomery on Cyber War

Mark Montgomery, senior director of the Center on Cyber and Technology Innovation at FDD and retired U.S. Navy rear admiral, joins the show to discuss how prepared (or ill-prepared) the U.S. is for cyber warfare. ▪️ Times • 03:24 Introduction • 04:20 America: A Target Rich Environment • 05:59 Cyber and mobilization • 08:35 What actually happens? • 11:36 Automation • 16:18 Salt and volt typhoon • 22:04 Continuity of the economy • 28:33 Offense • 35:05 Cyber responses • 38:43 Public opinion • 41:4...

Feb 18, 202553 min

Ep 177: Christopher Kolakowski on Simon Bolivar Buckner Jr.

Christopher Kolakowski, director of the Wisconsin Veterans Museum and editor of Tenth Army Commander: The World War II Diary of Simon Bolivar Buckner Jr., joins the show to discuss the most senior U.S. officer killed by enemy action in WWII, Simon Bolivar Buckner Jr. ▪️ Times • 01:44 Introduction • 02:15 In the shadows • 03:53 Fathers and sons • 06:28 Childhood • 09:30 West Point Commandant of Cadets • 16:03 Alaska ’41 • 20:18 The Japanese threat • 24:20 10th Army • 29:03 Notes for an unwritten ...

Feb 14, 202552 min

Ep 176: David Betz on Modern Fortification

David Betz, Professor of War in the Modern World at King’s College London and author of The Guarded Age: Fortification in the Twenty-First Century, joins the show to discuss how fortification is alive, well, and everywhere. ▪️ Times • 01:22 Introduction • 01:53 A default condition • 13:20 Why is that there? • 22:13 Alexandrian foundations • 28:50 Security and mobility • 39:53 The pendulum swings • 48:54 Intrigue Follow along on Instagram, X @schoolofwarpod, and YouTube @SchoolofWarPodcast Find a...

Feb 11, 202552 min

Ep 175: Mick Ryan on War & Fiction

Mick Ryan, a retired major general in the Australian Army and author of War Transformed: The Future of Twenty-First-Century Great Power Competition and Conflict, joins the show to discuss future-war fiction and the possible futures of current wars. ▪️ Times • 01:23 Introduction • 02:10 Tom Clancy • 05:40 Accessibility • 07:14 The Battle of Dorking • 09:57 White Sun War • 13:39 Diplomatic failures • 15:40 Friction • 18:50 Israel transformed • 23:00 Existential threats • 25:25 Ukraine • 32:31 Pres...

Feb 07, 202538 min

Ep 174: Hal Brands on the Long Struggle for Eurasia

Hal Brands, Henry A. Kissinger Distinguished Professor of Global Affairs at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and author of The Eurasian Century: Hot Wars, Cold Wars, and the Making of the Modern World, joins the show to discuss the continued relevance of geopolitics. ▪️ Times • 01:29 Introduction • 01:54 Twentieth century • 03:29 Advent of geopolitical theory • 07:08 Land versus sea • 13:09 Authoritarianism • 17:40 Struggle for power • 20:30 Burdens of defense • 23:25 E...

Feb 04, 202538 min
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