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You're listening to ASBO International's School Business Insider. I'm your host, John Brucato. Each week on School Business Insider, I sit down with school business officials and industry experts from around the world to share their stories and explore the topics that matter most to you. Find out what it means to be a school business official and get your insider pass on all things school business.
Hi everyone and welcome back. Today we're exploring a story of perseverance, resilience and the power of staying true to oneself and the face of career challenges. My special guest today is Brady Brucato, Coordinator of Sales and Relationship Management at PMA Financial Network LLC.
Brady has a remarkable journey through the world of school business starting as a state aid planner at Quest R3 Boces in New York, moving on to become the director of government relations at ASBOINT New York and then transitioning to roles at 4x5 in later frontline education. Despite her impressive qualifications, Brady faced significant challenges securing a school business official position in the competitive Westchester County of New York State.
In this episode, Brady will share her experiences navigating these challenges, how she remained positive and vigilant, and why she ultimately decided that being a school business official might not be her true calling. She'll also discuss her successful transition to the private sector where she continues to make a significant impact working with school districts across the country. Brady, welcome the podcast and so happy to have you. Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Full disclosure to all those listening Brady and I are husband and wife and I'm really excited to bring her on because even though we will be discussing her experience through kind of traversing the challenges of kind of getting her foot in the door with school business, I was had the opportunity to kind of experience that first hand alongside her.
So really excited to share her story, but before we get into it, Brady, can you just kind of introduce yourself and give our listeners a little bit of your background to just kind of an overview of your career journey? Absolutely. Hi everyone. Again, I'm happy to be here. I'm Brady, Bracado and I just recently started at a PMA, which I'm working primarily in New York State with their liquid asset fund, Nile Off.
But prior to that, I've had, it's crazy to say now, but over 15 years of experience working with school districts in New York State, very proud to say that. So I started my career working at Quest R3 Boces when I graduated college, it was 2008 and that was right when. So perfect timing. Yeah, with a business degree and I didn't really know what I wanted to do with the business degree, but obviously I needed to get a job.
I was working at a restaurant at the time, a restaurant I worked at through college. And I was having a lot of trouble finding, finding a job. And so my mom recommended that I go back to school and get my MBA. So that's what I did while I continued just working part time. And I really just, you know, try to tap into all of my networks to see if there was something I could get into.
And luckily my sister was working at Quest R3 Boces and she was a, I really have heard of things because she was able to have them create a position for me. Now doing gas before the five services, that's what it was called at the time, which was working with OPEB, the OPEB liability that all school districts needed to in New York State needed to report every year.
So, so I was in charge of scrubbing their data, making sure that we had everything that we needed going through their collective bargaining agreements, you know, all of that. And I did that for about two years. And then I decided, you know, I wanted to try something else. So a position had opened up in their state aid planning department and our HR director at the time told me it would be a really great opportunity for me. And so I started doing that.
I had no idea what I was doing. And I remember one of my first phone calls was a gentleman to this day. I can't tell you who it was. And I wouldn't tell you if I, if I did. But if I could tell you who it was, but he asked me a question. And I said, you know, none of the state aid planners are here right now. I'm brand new. They're all, they're all at one of their workshops.
And, you know, I'm going to write this down and I'm going to research it and I'll get back to you. And he said, wow, who do you know at Quest star? And I said, what do you mean? He said, they only hire the best of the best there. I've never called there with someone not having the answer. And I know it wasn't very nice. And again, I was like, what did I get myself into?
So it was, it was very challenging at first. You know, I was, I was looked to as a resource, right? 700 almost 700 school districts were, use our services. So we were one of the, I think at the, at the time and still now they're probably one of the biggest bossy services in the state. Very, very reputable service. Everyone goes to state aid planning.
It's kind of a no brainer if you're a school district in New York. But if it's any consolation, I remember when I was at a previous district in New York, I had called up Quest star three bosses because I had a specific transportation state aid question. And you actually picked up the phone. This is before I actually knew you.
And you gave me a very cogent well researched answer. So obviously you, you progress leaps and bounds from that initial call from that gentleman that wasn't too thrilled with your, I'll have to get back to answer. So I mean, at least, you know, you learn the ropes and you kind of went through it, right?
Yeah, absolutely. And, and that was the thing. I mean, you, you never knew what someone was going to ask you that day when you picked up the phone. And it was just whoever's available pick up the phone. An email comes in. It goes to our general account, just someone answer. And so it was, it was challenging, but also really rewarding at the same time learning all of the different aspects of the school business office in New York state.
And just being looked to as a resource, you know, for, for people in, in your seat all across the state school districts of different sizes, having different issues that they were dealing with at the, you know, the time. And so it was, it was very, very interesting, but it was very challenging, especially being young in my career, never worked in a school business office didn't even know a lot about what they did. So you weren't a little girl dreaming to be a state A planner? No, no.
And actually, when I first started at Questar, remember my, my first few days thinking, what am I doing? This is not where I saw myself working in this, you know, a local government. Like I, I saw myself working for Ralph Lauren or something. And I remember thinking, this isn't going to last. I'm going to have to find something else. And then I'm really glad that I went over to state A planning because I loved working with school. I loved helping people.
I loved being looked to as a resource and being able to find answers and taking really complex information and breaking it down so they understood it. I remember my first year as a state A planner was the year that the New York State property tax cap came out. And at that time, because it was, it was 2011, I believe it went into effect for school district starting with their 2012 budget. So we had, you know, a few months to read through legislation.
And I don't know if you've ever read through legislation, but it's very challenging. There's very much illegal ease and text only. There's no charts, no graphs and everything. And I remember I think you guys published some kind of graphic that helped distill down those complex concepts. And, you know, for those outside of New York, the New York State tax cap is just legislation that limits how much districts can levy from year to year.
We won't go into the details, but it was a huge shift in terms of how districts had to budget and how school business officials had to approach their budget. Not only in the upcoming year, but really long term and what those implications are and were. And it's easy for you to say it like that now, but at the time when we got the legislation, it was incredibly complicated. No one knew what the formula men were all trying to break it down.
We're calling our friends at NISCIS and ASBO New York and school boards to say, you know, is this your interpretation of this? Is this your understanding? Because then we had to go and break it down for people such as yourself to help you understand it so that you felt confident in understanding the formula and doing the calculation and then explaining it to your communities.
So being brand new to that, I think I was maybe 24 or 25 at the time. It was very, very overwhelming, but again, it was a great experience. Well, I remember my first interview from my first school business official job. It was shortly after the tax cap came out and that was like top of mind for everybody.
So I remember having to answer questions about the tax cap and I mean, talk about fake it to you make it like I did the best I could to kind of interpret the legislation. There wasn't a lot out there. Thankfully, it worked out, but you know, to your point, when you're looked at as a resource, you have to, you're the one behind the curtain dissecting all this.
It's not just this magical, you know, these flow charts and things that come out with these explanations. There's people actually trying to dissect legal leads to get that out there. So kudos to you and that team because I may have found some of your resources when I was in my interview process, but very complicated to explain without having kind of distilled down to its simplest points.
Yeah, and then put yourself in a room of 200 plus school business officials in Long Island. I'm not saying anything bad about Long Island. I've got a lot of great friends in Long Island, but it was pretty intimidating being a young professional standing there in this huge bank with hall room in front of these CFOs and trying to explain something to them.
So you got your chops at Questire. So can you tell me a little bit more about kind of what drew you to the school business profession. I mean, obviously you said that you love helping people. But what was it that made you stick in this field? You know, this isn't Ralph Lauren and you kind of private sector company. It's very much different. It's very much government. What kept you around?
Yeah, so I really wanted to fully understand the role while I while I was at Questire. So I went to school and I got my STBL. And that gave me more of a fuller picture of the of the role, which the STBL is a required certification in the state in New York to be a school business official. Correct. Yes. And part of the requirements of completing the program is that you have to do an internship. So I did an internship at a local school district.
And again, it just gave you more of a hands-on experience of understanding the role. And I thought, you know, I could do something like this. And I liked the idea of being in a position where I felt that what I was doing had more of an impact on students. Yeah. Working for both these, I still knew that I was impacting students, but I wanted to be a little bit closer to it and actually work for a school district. So that's what really attracted me to that role.
And you kind of got experience through your STBL. So what kind of took you down the career path if you said you went to now a state association of New York. So you were kind of in the field working with school business official supporting them. And now you've jumped to a new capacity. It has been New York. Tell me a little bit about that experience and that kind of adding to your maybe pursuing the career as a school business official.
Yes. So I still wasn't sure if I wanted to make the leap to be a school business official. And I actually was offered a position as the CFO for the school district that I did my internship at. But at the same time, I was offered the role as the director of government relations at Asbone, New York. And it's this is silly to say, but really what it came down to was the commute. As someone with a commute, as you know, it makes a big difference.
Yeah. So I had been doing a commute to Boise's for eight, nine years. I don't remember. Of like 45 minutes and the school district would have been an additional 15 to 20 minutes. And so I thought, yeah. You know, maybe I'll go and I'll work for Asbone. I'll learn a little bit more about our members and school districts across the state and the government relations side of it.
And so I went and worked for Asbone. I'm so glad that I did because I got to see the advocacy side of what school districts go through and how things work at the legislative level and just getting a really great experience of working with legislators and helping them understand.
The issues that school districts were facing and why it was so important for them for their legislators to understand where they were coming from and understand the real challenges that some legislation had on them or how new legislation could help them. And was that really eye opening for you kind of being on the other side of things? You know, we were just talking about you having to interpret legislation.
These would either tax cap, but now working with legislators directly was that just kind of an eye opening experience seeing how the sausage was made at the state capital. Absolutely. It was eye opening. And some of the things that I saw on witness, maybe I won't get into today. Maybe that's for another conversation. But it was it was it was extremely it was just so interesting to see and especially the staff of some of these legislators.
They were so knowledgeable because you know that they're sitting there and they're they're not just talking to people in the education field are also talking to people in all different industries and the amount of information. The amount of details that they knew about some of the challenges that school districts were facing at the at the time was just. It was super impressive and.
It was also reassuring to know that they actually have taken the time to try to understand fully what these you know what these issues were. Well, I had an episode with Ron a few months ago and you're talking about advocacy and that was something that was really remarkable for me is that I I guess I took it for granted.
So when we're at the state capital advocating on behalf of school districts, we just assume that the legislators know everything about school districts because they're the legislators that we've been assigned to. But what I really came to understand is that they know a lot about a lot because there are so many different advocacy groups. I think a great point. Something I took for granted and I guess I didn't give enough credit to to legislators, but it's impressive.
The amount of knowledge that they know about anything from agriculture to health care to transportation to education. It's it's really impressive. And it was very eye opening to just see all of the time and effort that goes into you know sitting at hearings and listening to other professionals in our industry.
People are some of the other organizations, you know, Nysvus and and Nisba and I'm saying that thinking everybody knows what I'm talking about, but the other associations for superintendents and school board associations. It was just incredibly impressive to sit there and witness all of the time that that people were putting in to advocate for school districts.
And how did that role at Asboa New York kind of further mold your understanding of school business official work beyond what I learned at Questar because Questar really did give me a pretty good full understanding of the school business official role. But with Asboa, I guess. Just learning more about the advocacy side, I guess because that was really my focus was government relations, but I also did spend time trying to develop their mentor program.
So matching new school business officials with other schools business officials across the state more seasoned people to help them have a have an additional resource and follow up with them as they navigated this new role of of being a school business official. And that part was interesting to me as well just to try to nail that program down and and really provide an additional service for for new school business officials.
We were Questar working directly school business officials, you're an Asboa working directly with school business officials and then you ended up transitioning over to forecast five later known with frontline education. Can you tell me about that experience now you're jumping strictly into the private sector but still tend gently related to school business official work. How did that differ from what you were used to and what did you come prepared with.
Yeah, so I had attended one of forecast five's conferences that I know you hadn't attended in the past and it was just so exciting to me. Startup company that was incredibly passionate about what they were doing and how they were helping school districts across the state. It was just it was amazing to witness that and I had a colleague who had recently switched over from being a school business official and moved over to working for forecast five and.
At the time were doing a long range financial planning workshop that was forecast five sponsored and we ran it through Asboa New York and so I got a lot of experience with. Learning about long range financial planning and seeing how this individual applied the tools that they had at forecast five and an opportunity opened up and he said do want to help me expand in New York state and.
It sounded like a great opportunity and it was just the right time right right place so I jump ship and I I went and worked for forecast five and being there and through the frontline acquisition I was there for a total of five years but was great with that was.
It was someone of a hybrid role so I was helping them expand business in the state of New York but at the same time I was able to advise school districts with developing long range financial plans so it was a very specific area of school finance. But we also got to use these amazing tools that forecast five had developed and it was it was just such a fun experience it was such a unique experience being part of.
A startup company if anyone has ever had the opportunity to do that it's it's just amazing because there's so much energy and creativity that goes into it and I worked with some really amazing people very intelligent people. So you're in the way you could think about the cost of the country and. You know really proud of the work that we did there and you eventually once frontline acquired forecast five graduated into a different role.
Can you give me a little brief overview of that and how that experience really molded your understanding of just not. Your work in New York but you were working across the United States. with all of these partnerships with K12 associations that these relationships that they had built over the years. And now they were a part of frontline. And frontline was trying to understand those partnerships, you know, obviously they understand how partnerships work.
But trying to get a good understanding of those partnerships and just build a program that was helpful and successful for both sides to the partnership, frontline and the associations. And during that role, I really learned a lot about the work that different associations do across the country. And I know you're aware of this through your work with Asbone International. It was really interesting to see how different state associations are and how they're also similar.
And I really appreciated that role because I got to know a lot of great people. I got to learn about how education systems work in different states. And it was also exciting to be leading such a great program that forecast five was so successful at building. So the challenging thing there was, though, because going through an acquisition, obviously, you're taking one program to a completely different company with a different culture. And obviously, you know, that comes with some challenges.
And so it took time to meet with the different partners, help them understand who I was, but then also help them understand this new company that they're partnering with. Right. So, you know, we've really laid the foundation of your experience. And I think anyone listening would agree you have a vast amount of experience as it relates to school business.
Although you weren't sitting in the seat, you were a go-to resource for many school business officials in the state of New York and across the country. So let's kind of go back to when you really started to decide, do I want to kind of jump in and become a school business official myself? So this is kind of around the 2020 timeline. When you were really looking at it, can you tell me why this kind of crept into your mind and why you thought maybe this could be the right move for you?
Yeah, I think I was at a point in my career where I was thinking, you know, maybe I really should try to do this. I went back to school to get certified to be a school business official. And just through my time assisting school business officials, I thought, you know, who am I to be advising these folks? Right, I've never actually sat in the seat. So let's give it a shot.
And at the time we were living in White Plains, New York, which is part of Westchester County, which is somewhat of a different world compared to the rest of the state. You know, the state. 30 minutes north of New York City. Yeah, and the state has all these different pockets and, you know, like many states, one region is very different from others.
So I took a shot at it and I did some interviewing and it was very challenging because most districts that I interviewed with, they always came back to the fact that I never actually worked in a school district. So I think there were three districts where I was a finalist. It was between me and one other person. And all of the feedback that I got was that they decided to go with a person who's actually worked in a school business office or they've worked at a school district in some capacity.
So you being a finalist, you were up against what I would assume were sitting business officials already? Yes. And so, and that's completely understandable. But, you know, at some point, you hear no too many times and that's really what made me decide maybe this isn't for me. And then just through personal changes, you know, we moved and given where we were living, it was just easier to have a job that was remote.
So, you know, with a baby on the way, I didn't want to be working at a place where I had to drive 45 plus minutes to go into a different state. So. So when you're sitting at the interview table with the interview committee or the superintendent or whomever was speaking with you, did you find there was a common thread of just some hesitation of you not sitting as a school business official before?
And if so, how did you kind of address those questions to reassure them that, yes, I haven't been sitting school business official, but I am more than qualified to do the work. How are you able to kind of articulate that to the interview committee or whomever you're speaking with? I just leaned on my strengths and explained that, you know, I'd be able to offer up a different perspective coming from a place that wasn't in a school district.
You know, you always hear, this is the way we've always done things. And so I remember one of my interviews with one of the superintendents and mind you, many of these interview processes, I sat with superintendents many, many times like the same superintendant many times. And so we got to know each other.
And one of them I was somehow I just came up, I started, I pulled up forecast five, I started looking at their data and I was talking through some things that I realized about the school district through my analysis and he was super impressed and was said to me, you know, I can see you being like the next generation school business official with all this data. But again, it came down to the fact that today is not that day. Today is not that day.
But yeah, I just, I tried to lean on my strengths and I also explained that through my experience, I had this huge network across the state of New York where if I was ever in a situation where I felt challenged or I didn't know how to approach a situation, I had so many people that I could reach out to. And also everybody has to start somewhere, right? So sometimes you just have to take a chance on people. Unfortunately, they didn't take a chance on me.
But we all also know that school districts are very politicized organizations and I can understand why, especially in an area like Westchester County, I can understand why they wouldn't wanna take that risk because they're constantly in the spotlight. They have to be very careful with the decisions that they make and so why would they take a risk on someone who is managing the school finances?
So do you think that played a factor into you not getting a school business official position being in Westchester County? Because as you said, there are very particular pockets across New York state as I'm sure there are through all states, but I would agree with you.
I think Westchester is unique in the sense that it's a very high stakes area because you have, like we said, you're 30 minutes north of New York City, you have a lot of CFO, CEOs, attorneys, high power figures that work on Wall Street, but are living in bedroom communities in Westchester County.
So there are oftentimes board members and it's just a very intense experience and I can speak from my own experience, but do you think that maybe trying to get your foot in the door in Westchester County was just another obstacle in front of you? Yeah, I mean, it was incredibly defeating to put yourself out there and multiple times be told no and especially when your colleagues across the state have so much faith in you.
Yeah. I think that that's really the only thing that helped me navigate through that time was I would have conversations with different business officials across the state about my challenges and getting my foot through the door and everybody was just shocked. They're like, I can't believe that. We would always call you, you were the one that we would call for help and can you call the discreet and let them know that? Yes, yes. And that's the thing.
It's so the business officials that I knew across the state and worked with so closely, unfortunately, those aren't the folks that are. Those aren't hiring you. Right. So the superintendent and the board members may not have known me. But just knowing that I had other people that had confidence in me and faith in me, some of these business officials who've been working for years in the state highly respected individuals knew that I could do it. That really helped me get through that time.
And so in addition to that, was there anything else that really allows you to stay positive because as you mentioned before, being told, no, so many times can be really disheartening. So what kept you pushing through? Because you interviewed at a number of districts. What got me through that was other organizations and companies reaching out to me asking me to come work for them or consider working for them.
So I knew that I had skill sets that would help me contribute to a team and to a company. And I think that that was really what helped me power through that. Because unfortunately, sometimes it is who, and not what, and just through the relationships that I have built over the years and the networking that I've done, I think that there's been individuals who've recognized what I can bring to the table. And so just knowing that kind of helped me get through that.
Yeah, so having that validation through other channels kind of kept you moving through. Yes. And again, just other business officials and telling me to them sharing their stories. There's been a ton of folks that I've talked to that have said, I couldn't get a job, I couldn't get my foot in the door, try this, do this, just keep trying, you can do it. And so I'm sure if I had kept at it, I probably would be a business official today, but other opportunities came about and I went for those.
So when you think about the experience you had trying to become a school business official for the first time, the common thread was like, you weren't a school business official. So that's a tough seat to be in, given the amount of knowledge you had. But my question is, New York State, we do a lot of studies with our membership and specifically the age of our school business officials across the state and when they're looking to retire.
In the next five or so years, we anticipate a large swath of school business officials retiring. Our biggest worry is that we do not have enough qualified candidates coming up through the pipeline to replace the school business officials and I'm actually hearing that thematically across many different states in the United States. All that to be said, do you think school districts are going to have to reconsider the candidacy pool and who they hire moving forward in the next five to 10 years?
Because I'm worried that the pool's gonna get shallower and you're not going to have sitting business officials that are gonna be readily available to jump to another district. And so you're saying that then they'll have to lower standards and go for people like me? Because that was your saying. What are your trying? No, I'm saying do they take a risk of somebody who hasn't sat in the seat before? Yeah, I mean, they're gonna be in a position where and it's school business official positions.
It's superintendents. It's a lot of different positions. So they are gonna have to get creative and either lean on bocies or other services to help them fill those gaps or they're going to have to lower their standards. Yeah, I think it's going to be a real challenge in the coming years. And I actually have already noticed the program that I went through to get my SDBL was, I went through SUNY Albany and it was pretty intense.
I, when I finished that, I was about two credits short of getting a master's in education. So I basically, it was like 23 credits. And I recently noticed that now it's a 15 credit program. So you can are, you can already see that everybody is making adjustments in order to find people and fill those seats and welcome new people. Do you think that's the right approach, though, for colleges to lower their standards and expectation? Because the job hasn't changed.
I would argue that it's getting more complex year after year. Do you think that's the right move just to get people in the door as to lower the bar? No, I don't, but colleges all across the country are struggling to stay open. I mean, my college closed, unfortunately, the college of St. Rose closed this year. So I think that they're doing what they can, but they're also working together.
I know that colleges are working with state associations and high schools trying to come up with solutions to these issues that are, we're gonna be facing in the future. But to your question now, I don't think that that's necessarily the right approach, but that's just what I've seen so far. I wanna go back to a point you made earlier. It's sometimes about the people you know, not what you know, and I couldn't agree more.
I won't go into my own personal career history, but it was certainly more so about the people I know and willing to take a chance on me than my skills. Because as I had said, I could barely explain the tax cap really around in my career. So had it not been for some acquaintances and some people who knew people, I don't know that I would be where I am today. Tell me how you have been able to manage and maintain and build relationships across New York, across the US.
Like, why is that so important to you and why are you so good at it? I think it's probably just a lot about trust and listening. It's funny now that I work for profit companies. School districts are very unique customers because they're not out there and they're just gonna buy what you're selling them. They're dealing with taxpayer dollars and they need to make smart decisions when it comes to what they purchase.
And so they really wanna be able to trust the people that they're doing business with. And I think that I learned that really on that it's really about relationship building and listening to people and trusting, building a trusting relationship. I have people call me all the time. Like when I just started at Nilev, someone I hadn't talked to in forever called me and congratulated me and that just felt so nice.
And just, I think it's about checking in with people and again, making yourself available to listen to them and offer them advice. And if they share things with you, don't go and share that. I'm sure people have told me things that they've never told other people in their lives before. But I take that seriously. I don't share those things. And I don't know where any of that came from, but I'm glad that I'm able to do that because there really is a great group of folks that are in this industry.
And I'm so fortunate to have made such great relationships with some of them. I couldn't agree more. I think that's not something I anticipate getting into this field. There's a very human and personal element to it. And I think to your point, school business officials aren't just going to buy the new and flashy thing.
There needs to be a level of trust and relationship and transparency in order to kind of whether it's by a product or a service or really just maintain that discourse with a vendor or a colleague. There's just a very human element to it, which I think from the outside looking in before I got into this industry, I would never have thought that because you're dealing with numbers and finance and operations, it seems very black and white, but it's so much more nuanced than that.
So I think you being able to recognize that is just a huge skill set of yours. And I think your reputation obviously speaks for itself across New York and in the US. So it's just a, it is a very unique set of circumstances with school business officials. But I want to talk a little bit more kind of looking backwards in kind of your career transition and reflection a little bit.
What are some of those moments of maybe realization or some of those key insights that you kind of gain through your career transitions? Like what, we talked about why you had moved around to a couple of different jobs, but what did you kind of find out about yourself as you kind of took on new roles throughout the past 15 years? I've learned to trust myself more and I've developed more confidence. I'm still a very, I'm not a confident person, which I know that you know. I do.
But I've been learning, which I think, you know, being the youngest of five kids growing up, five girls, everyone was constantly talking and I never got a chance to talk. A little Brady in the corner. Yeah, exactly. And you know, being the baby of five, it's really like a game of follow the leader, right? And so at a young age and all, you know, my life growing up, I was just the follower and I was used to people telling me exactly what I needed to do laying out directions for me.
And once I started working, it's, you know, once you go into the professional arena, you're kind of just on your own, right? You don't have your parents, you don't have your siblings there to help you along the way. And this leader in me, I guess, kind of emerged over my career and... Like almost out of necessity? Yeah, yeah, pretty much. And it's something, I'm in a place where I never thought I would be, I guess, if that makes sense.
Because again, I was always, I just assumed that I would just marry Rich and not be... Sorry. I'd marry Rich and be a stay-at-home mom or something, not that there's anything wrong with that. But, you know, I'm proud of where... I'm proud of where I am. I've learned a lot and I've learned that sometimes you need to know when to keep your mouth shut, but you also need to know when to speak up at the table. And I would encourage others to trust yourself and try to find some confidence.
So looking back to where you have been and where you are now, do you think a school business official role is still in the cards for you in the future? Is that kind of that book is closed and shut? I don't know, I'm really enjoying what I'm doing right now. I'm learning a lot. I'm in the process of getting licensed to work at night left because obviously, they don't just learn anyone in the door. You have to pass several tests.
And I'm just really enjoying learning about that whole side of this industry. And so, you know, once I have all these licenses under my bell, I don't know if I would ever go back. Yeah, makes sense. And what role did self-reflection in personal growth kind of play for you in this career journey? I happen to know you're a very self-reflective person, maybe self-deprecating to a point. Sorry.
But tell me how that kind of played a role and just kind of your journey throughout school business and being related to school business. I've dealt with a lot of rejection. If you can believe it. No, I've dealt with a lot of rejection. And you just have to work through that and take it as a learning experience. And there was many times where I would sit there and think, what did I do wrong? Or if I could have done this differently, maybe I would have gotten the job.
But just take that information and figure out how you can do better next time. Really try to sharpen your skills. So what advice would you give to others that maybe facing similar challenges just have been trying their dynasties to get a job, not necessarily a school business official job, but maybe something related. If they're just kind of down in their look, what would you say to them? I would say you really need to ask for feedback.
So if you don't get the job, accept it, but ask what could you have done differently? Or what did you do wrong and then take that information? And you have to accept that too, right? Because if you're just in denial, then you're not going to be able to grow. So you need to take that information and go back and think about, should I go back to school? Should I get a coach? Should I get a mentor?
There's a lot of different things that you can do to try to help you grow and also lean on your network. Because that's what I did. I reached out to a lot of my colleagues across the state and said, what am I doing wrong here? And I got a lot of great invaluable advice from different individuals across the state just trying to really help me get my foot through the door, which again, this sounds like a sob story here. You're making me sound like... I think I'm great. Like, you're doing great.
You're pretty, but I did get a job offer as a business special. And I was a finalist, or I was a finalist a few times. But I think that it also helped me realize that I probably wasn't ready, because there clearly was something. I missed the mark a few times. And why was that? So obviously, there was room for improvement. And I think that you have to be realistic with yourself, but you have to be, if you really want it, then you have to put the time in to learn more.
However you can, again, as I mentioned, whether that's through going back to school or getting a mentor or coach or even like my internship, my internship really helped me a lot. Obviously, it didn't help me enough, but that was the district that offered me the position. So... Was there any specific advice that you received from those interview committees or those superintendents that you didn't get the job with that really stuck with you and kind of helps you grow? Was it a professional?
The common advice that I got was, what do you go work for a school district as a treasurer or a business manager or position? Not the top CFO position. And I didn't really want to do that. So... Why not? I don't know. I just, I think it was probably because I had talked to so many individuals who never went up through the ranks of the school business office. There's a lot of people, I know that you know this in the fields that came from the private sector.
Right. And so I saw that as like a step backwards, I guess. Right. And I didn't want to do that. So when you look back at your transitions and your career from a BoC's, again, working directly with school business officials, working for a state association affiliate kind of going back to the private sector, how do you think that those experiences have really molded you as professional and benefited you kind of both personally and professionally?
Because it's a very interesting pathway that you've taken. The common thread has been school business, but you've been able to be in so many different roles and capacities supporting school business. So how has that molded you? Yeah, I never saw myself as someone who wanted to be a constant learner, but I feel as though I've realized that that is who I am.
And so I really enjoyed just learning new things about school finance and ways that not only how not only how the business works and what the role is about, but also being on the private sector side, learning the different ways that we can support school districts and whether it's software or services, I've just found that to be really interesting, some of these different areas and how it all affects school districts. So that's been really interesting to me.
Also just networking and learning different people across the state, across the country. I think, you know, because I fell into this industry as I know a lot of folks have. And so it was never something that I, you know, as a young kid always wanted to grow up and be a business official or even wanting to work in education that I always thought that I would be in design or something. But it's just fascinating and it's constantly evolving and there's always new challenges for school districts.
And I really like being a part of the solution side and helping them navigate a lot of those challenges. I mean, forecast five in my first year was when we were doing transparency and essay, which in New York state, while everyone knows the essay reporting across the country, but in New York state, we also had another layer to it where we had to do the school level budgeting. Yeah, it was basically the same report, but just on your budget and it was awful. Yes, and it was a disaster.
It's going on now, but I still have PTSD. You have PTSD. I have PTSD. Because we, you know, we were helping school districts with that, but it's just, there's something about it that it's so rewarding to be able to help school districts find those solutions and being a resource for them. And someone that they can call and say, you know, hey, help me understand this. So winding down here, what would you say your closing thoughts are on just resilience?
What advice can you give to those listening that may need a little bit of resilience to keep them going? Like, where do they find that flame? And where can they draw on to just kind of keep pushing forward? It really helped me having such a supportive network. Because again, it gave me reassurance knowing that people who have sat in the seat know that I'm capable of doing that role.
I mean, that had to be a huge confidence boost, sitting professionals knowing that you could do it and telling you that you could do the job. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's really what has helped me just keep going over the years and trying new things. And also just having folks reach out to me and say, hey, we've got this new position. And it would be great if you could come join us and help us build our business in New York state.
So knowing that others have confidence in me and being someone who doesn't have a lot of confidence in themselves all the time, that's just been reassuring for me. Because if I didn't have that, then I probably would have completely given up in the industry as a whole. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can't thank you enough for talking to me. You have the unfortunate position of having to talk to me on a regular basis all the time every day.
So I appreciate you letting me put a microphone in front of your face to share your story. Anyway, I can help. Yeah. But thank you so much for joining me. And I'm excited to get your story out. Thank you for having me. Thank you for tuning into School Business Insider. Make sure to check back each week for your favorite topics at School Business.