Unmasking Shame: Transforming Pain into Growth and Resilience with Kyira Wackett

She also sees patients in a private therapy practice treating eating disorders , anxiety disorders and trauma . She has been speaking on topics related to mental health and well-being for over 10 years and focuses on balancing inside and action to create meaningful and sustainable change .

Her specialties lie in communication , boundary setting , distress , tolerance , forgiveness , and cognitive reframe and empowerment . She believes that all of us have the capacity to author our own stories and relinquish the holds of shame , fear and anxiety If we can learn to do the hard work , sit in the discomfort , to face our true selves and trust the process .

Okay , so today on the Cinegood Podcast , I am so excited . This episode is going to go the . It's going to cut teeth . I'm sure I have Kira joining me today . Kyira , how are you ?

But before we do that , kira , give us an idea and understanding of who you are , like the cornerstones , how did you get where you're today ? Like your pivotal crossroads in the big moment .

But I am a new homeowner partner , a mom to a newly three-year-old and a licensed therapist , as you said , and I own my own business and , peppered into that , I'm also a daughter , I'm a friend , I'm All sorts of things .

But really , when I think about all of these aspects of myself right now , I really see myself as being somebody sort of in this journey to shame resilience , which I think to me is sort of replacing the movement of authenticity . They're really kind of one in the same . In my brain it's this notion of . You know , I grew up .

I experienced a lot of childhood trauma , a lot of performing , a lot of conforming , which I didn't understand was shame until my mid to late twenties . But I did a lot of that .

I did a lot of operating from a place , of just trying to be something for everybody else , to be good enough , to be in the room , and now I'm really on this journey of being someone that is living in alignment with my values to create the biggest ripple and impact I can in the world around me in a way that feels good and in alignment with myself .

And so , rather than being the person , I do rotate my daughter's books , I do have different toys that come in and out of the boxes , but it's not because it would look pretty to post it on Instagram and because everybody has made it so that now it's a thing .

It's because , as somebody who thinks about mental health and development of a kid , it's really important to me that I'm helping create opportunity for my daughter to re-experience things .

And so it's this sort of shift from the pull so many people can relate to in life of again we started doing it weird little , and social media has definitely made it harder to be something to match the performance . It's really now I want to be someone in shame . Resilience .

I'm like really unraveling a lot of personal shame story and like a lot of what you said about performing and like conforming and something that is just like slowly , like oh , oh , actually I kind of like did that as a coping mechanism to deal with a narcissistic parent , so like , oh , how actually would I like , if that's just the performance , me , then who is

the me , me , so it's , I feel , you . I'm like , oh yeah , okay , this constant , deep already . Yes , so , as we like , as the title already got it , the gifts away . We're going to talk about shame today , and I think it's really important because you come from a psychological background and I come from a sociological background .

We both deal with shame in different nuances , I feel . So I think it's really crucial to kind of like get everyone on the same page when it comes to what do we mean when we talk , when we say shame or shame ?

Commonly people use the term limiting beliefs , but basically , when we're born , our brain , our body , has to figure out how to make sense of this world and how we fit into it , and so how we see value in who we are , how we create a sense of an identity , how that integrates with the world around us , and all these inputs and influences and external sources .

For maybe.003% of the population , their core belief is I'm worthy , I'm lovable , I'm good enough by being me . I don't have to earn it , I don't have to look a certain way . My body size , my skin color , my grades , the school I went to , my socioeconomic status none of those things matter . I am worthy of love , connection and belonging . The rest of us .

So 99 . Whatever number of zeros , 7% of us got the core belief I'm only worthy and lovable if , or I'm not worthy and lovable unless and those two things kind of get at the same point , but it's this notion . If many of us could go back to early childhood , elementary school , middle school . We can think about those influences .

If you wear a certain clothing item , if you sit at the right lunch table , if you say the right things , you listen to certain music , if we go back to our caregivers getting certain grades , being quiet at the right times , knowing how to you mentioned a narcissistic parrot knowing exactly how to play into their ego , the ability to match these external expectations

or bids or requests is what created a sense of self , and shame is basically sort of I think about it like a sleazy use car salesman that comes in when you're feeling like , oh my gosh , I suck , I'm broken , I have all these things stacked against me . Look at this , I'm only four and I've already got two dark of skin to whatever it is .

And shame comes in as like I got you

. Here's the book I'm going to give you a signal every single time that something is happening , that you , there's a threat to connection and belonging , and when someone's going to see it . So we both know it you're garbage . But let me help you pretend like everything is fine . I just finished watching the movie Elvis on HBO Max and I think about it .

The character in there , the snowman who's kind of his manager would do a lot of this sort of the . This is how you need to be perceived in the world and I'm going to make sure that the real you isn't seen too much . And that's what shame is . Shame is fear . It's a subset of our fear . It is the threat to connection and belonging .

And it comes in and it tells you oh , you're too close , you better react . And that is either the performing , the becoming what everybody else wants or needs .

It's the deflecting , the avoiding , it's the aggressiveness , it's the pushing away , it's all those different responses to a perceived threat to connection and belonging , because at our core , our belief is that we don't actually deserve to be here , is who we are is not good enough .

So it kind of makes sense that it runs like so , so deep , from like really being one of the core I don't know one of the core emotions almost , and what I think is absolutely brutal about it . It's not just like a private emotion when you feel happy , you feel happy and obviously that radiates , but it's both .

It's personal , public and social , it's everything . It only happens when it can either happen . You can either shame yourself , but it usually comes like it needs that outside component of something , someone telling you oh , actually , this is not good enough . It's in a personally driven . Yes , yes and like .

So this is where really interesting when , like , when I'm looking at it from like a social , it's like a sociological point and be like , hey , okay , how is shame , this deep , complex emotion that is tied to social norms and expectations , like , how is shame being misused as a tool of social control that you use to regulate behavior and enforce conformity ?

And we see that so , so much on women's bodies , on everything that goes outside the norm it might be trans women , black women , people of color in general , like the whole , the whole feel , and it's just such a brutal emotion growing up with it , like it box you over at 10 times and more .

Like it's a form , a severe form of punishment , because if you're not behaving how society expected to behave , we're going to regulate your behavior on individual level with a form of punishment in the form of shame .

So I'm always it was really interesting on how , yeah , how that relates , like on really like social levels between social control and like how we can do that . And while we see it like , maybe some of you will be like somebody listening .

We'd be like , yeah , okay , get it Like bad stigma , but it's in so many nuances right , like it goes from the , as I've said , like okay , shaming women's bodies for looking a certain way , right , like that's why the diet industry is there Shaming women into , like , losing weight , shaming people into losing weight , and it never works .

Shame never works Long term . But we'll get to that .

Otherwise , I don't know , I might not be in the cool Instagram business owner club , right , or I can , I don't know . I feel putting myself into like I don't know , isolation or kind of like self inflicted negative self-talk and self-criticism , leading them to kind of like self incorporated change .

You have to have a minimum of X number of followers on Instagram and I'm not on Instagram anymore and I don't do these things and I would see it even applying to speak at events and how about this ? And how much money have you made ?

And it's all these things that say , well , you are legitimized based on the number of external validation points that you can prove , and what happens is our sense of self becomes . I had this . They used to joke about it , but it was kind of that .

I'm joking , but I also feel this way kind of idea , which is , I think , a lot of how Shane comes out it's the person that's like , well , I'm going to make the joke about being fat because I don't want you to feel like you have the one up over me , but yeah , so I just got to put that first .

But I started having this thing where it was like , well , now I've moved every single day and I'm tracking this and I have to get everyone tracked . And there was a day that my watch was dead and I went to go work out . I was all completely ready and my watch wasn't working and I was like , well , what's the point of working out now ?

That right , there is Shane . That is the saying of if I can't prove to somebody else I worked out . It is less valid , less important , less meaningful that I took that time for something that's supposed to be just for me and not about anything else . And that's the subtlety of shame , it's the slow microerosions .

I made a post I'm going to take it down because I only got five likes on it and somebody else got a million in their first five minutes making a post or whatever that is , and that's that piece of Sonia Renee Taylor in her book the Body is Not an Apology Gaurat is about . Oh , I love it . Yes , it talks about ladder systems .

I think that is one of the most beautiful ways of understanding shame as a tool of influence , because it's the idea of us constantly being entrapped in this notion of upwards and downward comparison . I got to get up the wrong ladder to be better , which means somebody has to be below me for me to be good enough .

It's the way I tell somebody else oh see , you're a great mom , you're better than other moms , I know . Yeah , well , that means other moms are shit , so we're shaming them so I can feel better .

That's the way it happens and that's the way that we say okay , I'm okay as long as I can find someone who's doing it worse , or I'm not okay until I get above that person in front of me .

Both of those make us dependent on the system outside of us and keep us hooked to the belief that , again , our job is to always be climbing the ladder and the success is only if we can get to the top and make sure that everybody else stays on the bottom .

I just kind of like talk about it like a fellow . I'm also a mom of a three year and a half year old and I recently had a friend over , like a really good friend .

We have like no , like we have almost no boundaries , so she couldn't see my house when it's burning down , like it's fine , yeah , and like , and she came in and like she was like oh , I'm so glad you didn't clean up before , like , and she said it way more politely , but that was just a thanks , right , and I'm like , yeah , that is true , because if I was

first had to spend three hours to clean up , I would not have invited her . So that kind of like other layer of shame , how it can lead to self isolation , especially maybe amongst mom . I just that just popped in my head .

And I think that happens with most roles and change is with moms , momhood , and it doesn't matter how you come to be a mom , but there's this sort of idea of you get to have a hard time for this pocket and then you need to have your shit together and your house should be clean and you should be thriving and everything else , and you should love to make

all the toddler snacks and you should be rotating the book . It's starform and heart shapes and like Exactly , and all the little cookie cutter pieces and your kids should eat it all because they love it . Because you've got to agree and mine is in a beige hour face .

I mean there are definitely days where I am in a beige only face , so I get that a hundred percent , but it's , it's that piece , and so it's .

It isn't even necessarily that someone else has to say something , but it's the subtle interpretation Somebody else might have never outwardly made a comment to you about , again , how you manage your household , your body's size , what you're eating .

They might not have ever said something to reinforce what you believe to be true in the world around you , but it still exists in the world around you , and so it's that piece that's really

tricky . And that's again goes back to systems and intergenerational systems of oppression that are founded on shame and the expectations and norms that come from it . And so for us , it's and yeah , we're going to talk about what do we do with it , how do we break out of it ? But that's when we talk about shame resilience .

You're never going to be without it , because radical acceptance acceptance were in systems of oppression that are founded on shame . So it's how do we create response plans and resilience around it , recognizing that that's part of how we're going to function for the rest of our lives ?

It would be like well , whatever , and yeah , it's , it's so interesting , right , like , sometimes , what do you , what do you say ? Right , sometimes , what do you say and what do you don't say ? And I especially remember there was a lot of shaming growing up around body size and like .

It would be things like like the more like straightforward ones , like , oh , you want to finish that . Okay , that was pretty straightforward . And then things like I don't know , I would wear a skirt instead of like trousers or whatever . And my grandma would be like oh , that skirt looks much better on you . You're like oh , okay , thanks , message received .

You know I mean , and it's not like , it's also the tone that makes the music . But yeah , and then like , yeah , like all the random things , or like the . At the worst , we're always like the I don't know the . I don't want to call them fake compliments , because with some of the people who said that to me , I do kind of believe they meant it genuinely .

Yeah , they're like oh , you're so brave . Or like wearing a swimsuit and I'm like what ? Like , don't like . No , that's not bravery , that's you being a dick . Yeah , right , but all these little mooses of like , yeah . So that goes to say do not ever comment on anybody's body . It's none of your business .

Yeah , but then it's also and this is the really hard part so , if you think about this from a political standpoint , from any other standpoint part of combating the shame is also to not exist in opposition or binaries with the people that you see as perpetuating the shame , because the issue at its core , when somebody is making that comment , when somebody is maybe

outwardly if we look at racism as an example and they're sort of aggressively racist , it's not even necessarily about the person they're saying it about . It's that they need this to stay true , because in their head , this is the only way to have a place in the world . Yeah , it's , you are the threat to their sense of self . It's not , you are .

Obviously it's not okay to say those things , do those things , those actions hurting somebody , harming somebody , is never okay or valid , but it's the notion that it is self-protection at its deepest root . It is a dog backed into a corner that knows no other way , and that is also a person that is a product of scarcity and shame-based systems too .

And so the hard part is and this is why I think we're talking about , you know , hundreds of years of iterations , of moving through this before we see any meaningful change is , I wouldn't be able to do that right now .

Sit in a room with people that I know are outwardly hurting other people with their reflections of shame and the systems they exist in , and show them unconditional love and kindness . I couldn't do it .

I could not do that right now , as much as I want to say that I could , and I'm an evolved and open person , and so I think there's that piece , too , of knowing that part of combating the shame is binding forgiveness and releasing the idea that somebody else is now lower on the ladder because they have been worse , they've fucked up more in the shame circuit ,

and that's that's tricky and that's where I think it gets going back and just sort of the sociological , the systems , the all that piece where it's hard to see what the outcome is . How do we resolve it in the short term ?

Oh yeah , I mean , it's at the core of that right , it's believing fullheartedly that everyone at all times is kind of like doing the best they can Exactly , and that's that's . That's a mind fuck Like .

I mean we could name a gazillion of instances where we're like , but no , right , right , and I , I I had that conversation with a coach , um , two or three years ago and the hardest part actually about this , that was like one of the most my like , oh , moments was okay . So , if I can exempt that , everyone is doing their best at any given time .

That includes me .

So , now that we kind of like know what shame is on both levels and we know it creates so much hurt , yeah , and it is a tool of oppression and power and control and behavior on a both individual level and on a societal level , micro and macro Like how do and that goes back to your question , okay , we don't know .

We cannot even begin to to paint a picture of how it could look differently , because we have been in the system for so long . It's all we know . But still we know it sucks . We know like it's not working , patriotism is not working , like capitalism is not working , everything is just kind of like collapsing . So how do we start dismantling it ?

How do we start get better ? How do we start to get more resilient ? Yeah , why do we start here ? Where do we start .

And what you see , and particularly you know , there's been a I'm only going to use sort of an example of racism in the US , because it's been something , I think , at the forefront for many years , but more so in recent years .

And what happens is when we point out a problem and again we could say that on the system level , but let's just talk about it on the individual level Our programming is to go to action , to fix it , to make it better , to make it go away to . This is now , it's uncomfortable , I don't like it , I don't want to be this . So how do I fix it immediately ?

Yeah , I go into two votes , exactly , instead of saying I can't do anything until I understand the roots of the system in myself , and so , with shame , it works . The same way . Again , we're saying all these outward systems of oppression really root to this internal system of oppression . Ie , shame .

So for us I think it really is a big thing that I focus on in my work is what I call the anti-bandaid movement , which is the idea of you know , if we go back to core beliefs and this idea of kind of your innermost sense of self , the tension that starts to get created in our body the more that we are trying to live up to all these expectations and

can't , and that will sort of erupt as volcanoes , and I don't really understand geology but sort of how that would come to be . And so that shows up in addiction , in body shame , in eating disorders , in narcissism , codependence . It shows up in all these ways . Well , the bandaid is just , you know , fixing the outward manifestation .

The bandaid is , you know I specialize in eating disorders the bandaid is let's get you eating , let's stop you engaging in these behaviors , let's focus on the eating disorder and the relationship with food instead of saying what eroded your sense of self to begin with , because it isn't the behaviors you're doing right now .

This is the coping mechanism for the underlying shame , and so I think for many of us it's about learning to be comfortable in insight building and where we're going to get pulled to take action . That is shame-based thinking right there .

And so it's stopping first to say you have this radical acceptance If you are a human , unless you were born without the capacity to feel any emotion , in which case you wouldn't be listening to this podcast . You would have . Even if you came to it by accident , you would have ended a long time ago .

So if you're still here , you have the capacity to feel emotion , which means you feel shame . Accept that and then start to look at it through a lens of curiosity to say , gosh , okay , where did my shame story come to be ? What's it rooted to ?

And not as a means of placing fault on your parents , on your caregivers , on your ex-partner and the abuse , but to just say how did my brain try to come up with a rule book for how to be okay in the world and what's it doing for me ? How is it serving me now ?

And so I think it really is about sitting in curiosity and exploration for that past and the present self and starting to think about how is this affecting my ability to exist in the life that I'm in now ? Simultaneously , I think it's opening the door to say is this who I want to be and how I want to show up in the world ?

And what would it look like to give myself permission to explore something different , to think about something different , to be something different , and then , only then , can we start to look at what meaningful and sustainable action would be . So then it's how do I define a goal to , let's say , for example , it's okay ?

Well , I need to set better boundaries at work . And initially you're like there's the shame and I wrote all my boundaries . I'm constantly the human gatherer and I answer every email . I'm constantly available . I need to set better boundaries .

Well , if you just set the boundary , I mean I can tell you right now , here's five ways to set a boundary but you're going to erode it immediately because your shame's going to show up . So if it's , instead , you say this is why setting boundaries is hard for me at work .

It's not just my boss , it's not just my co-worker , it is the depth of rejection I feel at my core .

And part of that power is then showing past you , not using insight as a weapon , but showing past you love and compassion , to say that Jen , that Kira was doing the best that she could . This Kira has different insight and awareness to understand that not setting this boundary has XYZ ripple effect .

Setting this boundary is going to cause acute distress on a level that I am super uncomfortable with . So now and again , I'm giving people this roadmap for years of work instead of here's what you do by tomorrow . But again , we're not looking at band-aids here , we're looking at long-term solutions . Now we go .

Where am I missing or lacking in the skills internally and the supports externally to put that into practice and to deal with it ? To maintain Exactly , how do we learn how to deal with the distress when you do disappoint

someone ? Because you will . Because the instant you start to set a boundary , the instant you make actions that aren't driven by shame , other people are going to lose benefit Because you not setting boundaries benefits them . So of course there's going to be disappointment . That doesn't mean you've messed up .

It means there's now a misalignment in wants and priorities . How do you deal with that distress while you establish a new foundation for existing in the world ? Once you've done all of that , then I think we can jump to action . Now we can set the boundary .

Now we have an understanding of why it's going to be hard , what we do with it , how we put it into practice , who we talk to about it . Now we can practice it with the caveat of saying you're still going to fuck it up . I do this for a living . I practice this every day .

I need to have some , then I need to have some some . The best way to move forward then is to kind of like have curiosity . I just have no good or bad , just no judgment , just curiosity . Why did I do the things I did ? Next , you kind of have to have self compassion to know you did the best you had , like you did at any given time .

Same dad is like really hard , and from that , like you build forgiveness , and only then can we call it aligned action . You can go and be like okay , how do I want to actually change the narrative and change my story and go in action .

So the first step I think about is first you need to figure out what's the issue and sort of engage with your present self . What is the problem and why is it a problem for you ? Why do you not like this ? What is the issue ? Second step build the insight into the cause and effect of it . How did we get here and what's the effect of staying here ?

How is it rippling into your relationships ? How is your sense of self creating pain and suffering ? And that's really where we build that sense of a kind of responsibility taking , but also kind of empowerment and control . Then we go okay . So now we've gone to our present self . We looked at our past . We started to bring some integration there .

Now we're going to look at where do we want to go with it . So , given everything that we see , what do we want to do with this and the goal , as you're sort of creating or defining your goals , moving forward , is to say I'm going to stop trying to write a different chapter to everything that's already happened .

I'm going to take the pen back and start writing the stories moving forward . At least think about what that means to integrate my whole story past , present and future into that . Live in alignment . Then it's clarifying what do we need to get there ? So we're still get in the car . It's kind of like all right , you know where you want to go .

You're going to road trip . Yeah , you have like your mop . You have no noise , exactly yes , what are the snacks you need ? What's your playlist ? What are you going to do when you get tired ? What are your yellow flag spot ? And then it's action . And then it's really about kind of moving forward .

And one of the key steps in that sort of step four and step five is forgiveness , and it's the forgiveness of others , it's the forgiveness of yourself and a really shame . Resilience cannot happen without the practice of forgiveness , and forgiveness is not saying what we did , what someone else did , is okay or is absolved or is justified .

Justice is a whole , separate moral virtue . What we're saying is that we're going to stop being tethered to the pain of what we did or didn't do or what someone else did or didn't do . So we're not going to keep flipping back to chapter two and punishing ourselves or punishing someone else . We're not giving power there anymore .

We're going to say that happened , we're going to feel our pain and now we're going to move forward with it , integrating it into the story . We're not forgetting it , but we're going to move forward and so that really , once we get to that point now , we can start to roll .

Now it's an iterative process of skill building , well , still maintaining flexibility , that what I thought I wanted at 22 is different than what I wanted at 35 and is going to be different than what I wanted to be , and that is okay . Exactly , exactly .

They have accumulated a gazillion degrees , read all the stuff , how books there are , and yet they take no action . And then they keep beating themselves up again because they're not taking any action . So how can we what is like a simple step we take , if we're stuck in that cycle ?

I did this for you know , just to use kind of a non life kind of blow up example of I wanted to do public speaking . I spent five years talking myself out of breaking into the public speaking world . I don't know enough yet . I don't have enough time or tenure in the mental health field . I need to do this and you do that .

I need to read another book , I need to watch another , I need to go to another person's talk . I need to do all these things . And I sort of liken it to if you're going to go swimming , and maybe kind of going back to the example of , like all the body image stuff we might have to go through and get the swimsuit on .

You get out there , but at some point , if you're going to go swimming , you got to get in the pool , you can read about the water , you can buy the most comfortable suit .

It's the example of if you're going to bake a souffle for the first time , you don't want to do it in front of your 10 closest friends , you'd rather do it by yourself , so that if it fails or flops it nobody knows . And so in your mind it's I got to keep reading , I got to prep , because the instant I do it , everything is the nearest resolution .

Yeah , all of our stuff , everything better be better , be good , it's got to be perfect . And so I think it's the releasing of the cell from that to say what if ? Instead ? Because we actually have data that that doesn't work , that life and sort of the experimental design is about trying and flopping and failing over and over again .

What if , instead , you said what is what is round one , I'm going to beta test this . Instead of saying this is me sort of doing this whole self study so I can come out and tell the world I'm healed . Look at , everything is better and I got my shit together , exactly , exactly . None of us have it together again .

I you and I we specialize in these areas . We do it every day and there are some days I have made a case that I should not be a mom that my husband is definitely going to leave me . I am the worst therapist on the planet . I'm probably hurting more people than I'm helping , like when we let it . Shame , I'm really runs rampant .

So , instead of saying what are my values , who am I doing this for ? Be really clear about that , because if you're constantly worried about being perfect , you're still doing it for the wrong reasons . You're doing it for everybody else .

Instead , give yourself the gift of saying I don't need this to be perfect , but I do need to show up for myself and I need to jump in the water and it's okay that it's going to be cold and it's okay that it's going to be scary . I have done the work to stand up in the water and be okay .

Right , like some days the pool is warm , the weather is nice , you're like whoa , I love swimming .

And then the other days it's just cold and dark and gray and you're like nope , nope , not having any of this , and to then be like you can either push yourself , that works for some people , a short term , I know that is let me to burn us Right , right , so to really , yeah , go again with it with curiosity , self compassion .

is . This idea of everything is trends based . One bad day , one and whatever your quote unquote bad day means is not enough to derail you . When I'm working with somebody in the . You know , eating disorder recovery , trauma recovery , addiction recovery you're going to relapse . A relapse or a hard day , that's expected , that's normal .

Well , we're looking for as trends . We're looking for weeks , months of you not engaging in your coping skills , years of you avoiding going to your meetings , doing these other things . We're looking for that and I think that's the part where , again , this goes back to you could push yourself and there is a certain degree of needing to do that .

There is that self accountability .

It's that idea of when I do a workout and they'll give you , you know , if you need to scale down to this or if you won't need this change or accommodation , if you need to take a break , and then they'll say but ask yourself , is it a need or a want ? And I think that's the other thing , especially connecting to our bodies .

Again , we try to make our bodies kind of so far disconnected . We don't listen to it . So you don't need to sleep , I'm going to stay . I'm going to stay up and finish this project . You don't need to eat me , I'm going to work through . Yeah , I can go at 4am . Exactly , yeah , exactly . That's not sustainable .

So is this your body's need or is it your shames want ? And that's the question . I think if we can hold that , that helps us recognize . If it is your body's need , take the honorific off . Exactly , yeah , exactly . If it's shames want , you might still give it a day . Sometimes it's going to be at the table .

Yeah , set a timer , give it two days and then we come back to the pool . But I think that distinction is really key .

Like I mean , in our like capitalist society , we're incentivized like to prioritize short-term gains over any long-term benefits , like it's . You really have to work hard at times to be like no , I , I know what I like , what my shame is telling me I want right now . Yeah , but maybe that's just , I don't know , like a shiny coin in disguise .

And to be like okay , what do I really ? That's a really good , that's a really good like I think I loved that . And Sometimes I feel like , also , people come like , oh , but it feels so hard , and I'm like , yes , that's good . That means you're doing something new .

We've all done that , we've all stayed the course when things are hard and tricky , because there's a goal that's important to us .

And so if you can know that and you can say , gosh , this does suck , I'm going to validate that this sucks really bad , and some days I'm not doing it at 100% and I'm going to give myself that grace and I know that this is a necessary discomfort for me , based on the change that I'm looking for and I'm deserving of that .

Yeah , and not only am I deserving , but I'm capable of that , even though I've spent decades telling myself I'm not .

Here , I feel like we would have a gazillion more episodes in our pockets . So if people want to hear and see more of you , where can people find ? I know you don't hang out at Instagram . Yeah , where can people find ?

So if they want to subscribe to my email , that's kind of the best way to stay in touch with everything I'm doing and all the new stuff coming out .

So one of the things that I wanted to create , kind of as a step in the door to do some of this work , because it can feel super overwhelming is a workbook On self love , and it's so just this initial practice of starting to understand what is self love , how do I define it for me ? What does that look like ?

In the workbook , you'll go through some of these processes on forgiveness . You'll do some relationship assessments to see how the people in your life are serving you , not serving you , where we need to make changes . You'll look at how you're investing your time , money and energy maybe in ways that lines up with shame and ways that doesn't .

So I think , listening to this episode , there's a lot of the topics we talked about , you'll see . So there'll be some familiarity , which I think makes it feel a little less scary to get started in something like this . And so , yeah , just kind of taking this .

It's broken down into four chapters , there's tons of work available to you , and then if there's something that you feel stuck on that feels really hard or tricky , email me and I might have a video or something different or other people doing work in those specific areas I can connect you to , but I think building that strength and capacity to go deeper and some

of this more systemic meaning will change for ourselves . I think systems as a human , an individual , this is a great place to start and again , really makes it accessible and focuses on what's your why and how do we really anchor you to that and give you permission to define it for yourself .

And then I want to find out shit , blake , what book are you ?

So now , once a quarter I have a therapeutic book club where I have eight people come I'll read the book together . It's kind of like small group therapy , but I get to keep reading the books too . So I just finished Atlas of the Heart with my last book club and , holy shit is it a great book . So if people haven't read it , I highly recommend it .

It is just a fantastic way to make language and connection to emotions feel more accessible . So that one . And then I am kind of deep down the rabbit hole of reading the Bridgerton series . So that's my like before bed . I read most of them . I'm reading one right now because I know there's a new series coming out on Netflix soon .

So I am deep in the hole of that I'm very much especially , and I've learned recently because of trauma , because of sort of insecure attachment , that I crave rom-com , books , movies , because of the predictability . Everything works out . It's the same outcome , just different characters every time . So there is a certain degree that my trauma brain loves in that .

So it's very calming for me because I know it's going to work out . I know everything has a predictable outcome . I also just love that . It's like I will start a book and I'll be like I don't even remember which one I'm reading , and then I'll come back into it because they all are like the same .

So they're great to read before bed , but they bring me a lot of joy . So I'm back in the Bridgerton series right now .

She always does books in like three , four or fives , yeah , and one of them is like meet me at the cupcake cafe and then cut Christmas at the cupcake cafe and then summer at the cupcake , and you always know how . I just got a fucking gun , yeah , but the best , the best , I will drive up to sleep land .

But Jordan and my husband and my daughter both now when we're watching a movie together and you know it's like Disney movies and stuff now or when it's just him and I and we're watching other movies , like I will sob , because I love it when things work out and it goes back to that same thing .

And that's the thing I love about these books is like they're a little raunchy , they're a little bit you know whatever , and it's just that fun part . But it's also the comfort of knowing something is going to work out and I think it helps things feel a little bit more manageable .

So for everybody that reads those books , take the shame out of those , because there's a reason why our brains like them and why we're so highly attuned to wanting things like that . You're just a joy to them , you know exactly . Just let them be a part of the joy that you have in your life .