Unlocking Abundance: How to Succeed Soulfully with Jessica Eley

Jessica Ealy , welcome to the Podcast . Hey , thanks for having me . I'm glad it finally worked . Yeah , we took the scenic route to getting to recording this . We're so on scene , we're so on-brand Lotion team . It's almost kitsch , yes , okay .

So if you have listened to the Scenic Route Podcast before , for sure heard we mentioned Jess at one point or another , but let's let her introduce herself in her own words . So , hey , jess , like well , I mean , you don't have to give us like the elevator pitch , like your story , how did you start ? Like , how did you got where you today ?

Like the pivotal crossroad and the big moment . I don't have a pitch right , because I think the thing that I had to learn to do for myself is to learn to be really honest about where I was and then make a very conscious choice about where it was I wanted to go next .

And that sounds like stupid , obvious , but if you are like a high achiever kind of person you have like a predefined path , right .

Like I had my entire life laid out for myself when I was like 18 or something right , probably even before that and I thought I knew everything that I wanted and I was just going to like check these box I got and like it was yep , it was going to be great . And then , like I checked all my boxes by the time I was like 24 and I was miserable .

And but here's the thing is , like I still thought that there was like a checklist somewhere . Right , I was still looking for this , this thing outside of me that would give me , like this prescription for a good life , right . And so part of why I don't have an elevator pitch is because I meet people where they are and everybody's in a different place .

Like I have , I have been truly in the bottom of the shitter and I have worked with people who are at rock bottom . And then I've worked with people who are like at the top of their game compared to where they've ever been and still feel like there's more to get right , and they've never experienced rock bottom .

And when I talk about some of the things that myself or others have gone through . They have no sense of what that is .

But learning to meet myself and then , in extension , my clients where they are , and helping people make a really intentional choice , like , yes , this is actually what I want , because I can guarantee you , if you're not getting what it is you want , it's either because you don't actually want that thing or because you think you would lose something that is actually

more important to you in getting it right . Okay , so pause , jessica Healy , because I hear everyone go like dick , dick , dick , dick , process , process , right . So let's quickly break that down . So , yeah , you can get what you want . Yeah , so premise number one if you know what it is , yeah , I feel go ahead . I feel that's already like a trick question .

No , I mean . I mean like , okay , so for those who don't know , jess is my coach , I coach with Jess , so she knows .

I was at the point one time where I'm like , but I don't know what I want , and I have a lot of clients who also like , when asked what do you want , they're baffled for a lot of reasons and they have absolutely no fucking way , no fucking idea what they want . So how can we get to what we want ?

And then , yeah , like we don't want to lose that , but one thing at a time . So , yeah , how can we start it out ? Here's the thing . You definitely do know what you want in that case , right ? So when I talk about knowing what it is you want , there's two people .

There's the ones who are like I have no clue , and then there's the ones who are like , yes , I know exactly what it is I want , it's just not happening yet . And it's like , eh , you don't actually care about that thing . That's why it's not happening yet , right ?

Like , for instance , I have talked with people who are like I really want a million dollar business , and they have all these logical reasons and some of them are extremely compelling , right .

But then I talk to them more and it's not actually the thing that they care about , right , or the million dollars was the way to get the thing that they actually cared about , right . But in the example that you gave , where you're like I don't know , the first thing is to stop telling yourself you don't know , because you do know something that you want .

Okay , you may not have , like , a 10-year plan , or even a 10-month plan or a 10-week plan , that's fine . But , like , get as granular as you need to right . If you are so out of touch with yourself that you're like telling yourself this story of I don't know what it is that I want , then , okay , like , start playing the yes-no game .

Like , do you want to sit outside ? Do you want to sit inside ? Do you want to eat this or do you want to eat that ? Are you thirsty , are you not ? You break it down to moment by moment , right , yes , Like what I want in this particular moment . Like , yes , right , because that's the thing is .

Like you're probably where I often run into this is people who have been caregivers , so like moms of young children , people who have taken care of someone who is sick or elderly , anybody where , like you have to give up what it is you want because someone else or something else needs you more .

So this can also happen if you work in like a highly reactive environment , right , if you're in a career where , like you're always like putting out fires or you're just at the whim of a boss or something like that , you will be unpracticed at hearing what it is you actually want , and then the tendency is to just kind of like pick something out of thin air

that , like once upon a time you wanted or something that your family wants for you , or something that your friends want , and so like , yes , I might as well want that too , right , but you don't actually have any sense of what it is you need right now because you've been so busy tending to the needs of others around you .

Yeah , and that can also like happen fully unconsciously , right , yes , yeah , I mean like everything can , right . I just thought , like what you said , like at the whim of your boss , like that could also totally be , and that's the mean thing .

If you're at the whim of your parent or your boss , caregiver , right , that really flops you up for good , not for good . No , you're not at home , it's just forever , right , yeah , otherwise , I would might just I don't know jump off the bridge . But no , we're not going to do this . There's hope , but , yeah , okay .

So , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , okay .

So we stopped telling that bullshit story to us reframe it and we go granular to okay , what do I want this moment , until we kind of like learn how to do it into ourselves again , yeah , and be like , oh , okay , and then maybe you go from moment to moment to day , week , month , quarter , whatever . Yeah , yes , okay .

So the second part I thought was really interesting . Right , like you are afraid to lose something that you actually want more , yeah , okay . So that seems like a total mind-flop . Tell us more .

Some people refer to this as like a values conflict . So , yeah , you like . Okay , I have four little kids , right , and a lot of my references are mom references , so that's cool .

For a lot of people , for instance , it could be the kind of thing of , like I want to be there for my family , or it's like , really important to me that I be present when my kids are really little , or something like that . But like I also want one , right .

Or I want , or even like I want the mental fulfillment of , like , a stimulating career or something like that , right , and what happens is just basic self expression . I mean , yes , but we're like , just let me be my own person , that would be great .

So what tends to happen is that , unknowingly , we have made an assumption that one thing comes at the exclusion of the other , right , so if I get this , it will cost me that .

So if I get a lot of money , I cannot be a good mom because I'm not spending time with my children Right , and it'll usually be more sneaky than that , right , because anybody with , like any form of self awareness is probably going to catch that . But what it will be is something like well , I'm making X amount right now .

This amount would actually be better , but I'm working this much right now and I'm not really willing to work more in order to reach that amount of money that I want to .

And so then you start thinking about , like all these squirrely ways that you could raise your income without spending more time on it , right , and you start putting an Amazon shopfront like no , right , and like , before you know , or you're doing things , you're trying out things like pricing structures that feel like gross to you , or you try a sales script that

makes you want to vomit a little bit so that you can close a sale , or you sell into an industry that you have no interest in and it makes your soul die a little bit , or something like that , right , and all of this is because you think that you want the more money and you think that it's going to take more time , or that you have to do something that

you don't actually want to do , right , it's always like this roundabout , like then we have made a decision about how to get a result that we want for ourselves too quickly , then we tend to minimize the options or the opportunities that are available to us and then we run into things that are more important to us and we're like no , sorry , I guess these things

can't just happen at the same time , so I must be screwed . I mean that's the only logical conclusion there , obviously like I mean yeah , don't need a coach to tell me that .

But so I mean it seems like so we're kind of caught and in that black white reality we can only be this or that , instead of flipping the script and be like why can't it be at right ? Right , like why can't it be like more revenue and less work ? Yes , right , so I have a hunt . We're going now into very true topic .

That is like one of my what is on my online business bullshit bingo list , like number one , which is abundance . Yes , so like let's give us , give us the key about abundance . I mean there is , there is all the life and reason behind the broad term of abundance . I feel it gets .

There's an well I mean the scientist in me wants to bring in like there is no real definition of abundance . That's generally accepted and it's true and that's causing a lot of problems . Yes , so how do you approach the whole , even if abundance in the sense of like it's not this or that , it's and ? And how do you define abundance for yourself ?

I think of abundance as my ability to choose what it is that I want and the capacity to handle anything that comes along with that , and I think it is both of those pieces that are important , and it's usually only the first piece that gets attention , because it's like vision boards and fancy vacations and daubills and like I'm down with that , like I want you

to have whatever the hell you want , right . But again , if you're not getting it , it's probably because you're not certain of your ability to handle everything that comes along with this . Like a lot of people have heard this expression of like more money , more problems , right , yeah .

And if you're thinking of it that way , then that shows me that you haven't expanded your capacity . You're expanding your ability to ask for whatever you want , and that's fine , but you don't get to cherry pick the parts that come with having more money , right .

And so if this would be like me saying like I want to have four kids because , like , then we make a basketball team and that's fun . Right , we can do big family things together . But I don't want to deal with the fact that now there's a lot more laundry .

Now I have to make four times as much dinner as I did for my husband and me , because kids eat way more than at all .

You don't , like , you don't get to cherry pick the in air quotes good part and I say that in air quotes because that is the very thing that indicates to me how developed someone is in their actual sense of abundance .

Right , because if you are still labeling shit good and bad , if you are still thinking in terms of like , want this , don't want that , this is okay , this is not okay , and again , it won't be that straightforward . You'll swear up and down , you're not doing it , but I'll catch you . You said he's something to me , right , but he does .

If that is the line of thinking , then you're going to hold yourself back from getting , ironically , the quote unquote good things . Right , because there will be things that come along with that that you can't possibly anticipate now . Right , a part of the entire notion of a fear of success is because we don't know how life is going to change .

When you are successful , like , failing usually implies life stays the same life . Or or maybe you revert to like a step or two ago , right , but you already know how . It's a familiar step , right , right ? So if you fail , like not much has changed , you know how to deal with that , right ?

If you succeed , life changes in ways that you cannot conceptualize right now because you're not there , and with that will come again air quotes , problems that you can't foresee right now .

And so the more that you have expanded your capacity to to just see those things as like something that comes along with the package , the more you will be able to welcome in the things that you want for yourself .

And the narrower your idea is of what is acceptable or what it is you can handle or what it is that you are willing to experience in your life , the harder time you will have dealing with anything outside of that and consequently , allowing yourself to grow . Okay , so so far I follow . And it makes sense , right ?

I mean no , cherry picking , like that's probably the first thing you learn in kindergarten . No , not possible , but like . So I already hear like if this would be like a radio live show , I would already hear people calling in with like , oh , okay , so I'm ready for the money . So how do I bend my capacity that , yeah , I get the money , I'm picking part ?

Okay , good , fine , like . There's a lot of aspects to this , right , this is not the work that I do , but I'll tell you right now that if your nervous system can't handle it , you're like you will not experience more than what you have right now . Right , because it will be perceived as threat , dangerous . Yeah , yeah , right .

So I mean this is why we hear about , you know , lottery winners who are broke two years later , kind of thing . Right , yeah , and what they had the capacity for was what they already had and they revert back to that , right , yeah . So I mean there's so many wrongs that you could come at this from .

But I think the thing to pay attention to is or maybe one indicator of how well you're doing is , how much are you labeling things as good or bad ? And I mean that in like the broadest sense possible .

And when COVID started , I had some friends right for much of Europe and the US and stuff , things kind of shut down like march-ish right , and I had friends who were already optimistically making their plans for Ju , right , when this was all going to be over . We were all saying that .

And I remember immediately telling people like , oh no , mentally , like I don't , I am pretending that this is lasting until 2022 , right . And they were like , oh my God , jess , I'm going to lose my mind . And I was like , no , like just assume that it's going to be shit .

And if we're out of this by June , then like , go on vacation , that's fantastic , right . And like , in doing that , I made completely different choices . Right , I end and I set myself up for long-term success because I didn't have a need for things to be different than how they were . Right . Then , right , no , I have an advantage .

I mean , challenge this , like , so , basically , you can say I just put on my absolute fucking pessimist goggles and expect everything to be shit , so I get pleasantly surprised , yeah , so I get pleasantly surprised all the time , oh , no .

So the thing is , there are actually people who will be more comfortable becoming abundant in that way , right , where they will have like almost no expectations and will just allow themselves to be pleasantly surprised . And in their being pleasantly surprised , they will come to expect that more and more . Right , that is one possibility .

I don't encourage it or advise it . You kind of need both , right , because if you just focus on let's have a ton of capacity so that we can deal with whatever awful things come our way , that's still not you claiming what it is you do want , right .

No , it's basically just like putting , like racking havoc on your nervous because you're always prepared on like the next bad thing is going to happen . Now I feel like this is an excellent point to point out that Jen is an Enneagram 7 and I am an Enneagram 4 . And it was not totally obvious to you .

Anyway , I can see the differences between us , okay , but it's not the most random , yes , yes . So to get back to your actual point , it wasn't that I was being pessimistic . It was that I needed to tell myself , like , what would I need to do to accept things the way they are right now ?

Yeah , so I can tell that a person is labeling something good or bad when they fail to accept their present circumstances , right ? So by that I mean , like , when you have the kind of attitude that says this is unacceptable , this has to change . I will not stand for this .

It shows a very narrow capacity , right , because you need things to be just so in order for you to believe that you will be okay . Right , and the more you can practice saying , okay , I don't have to like this .

Okay , even I , like introvert homebody , doesn't like getting four kids up and ready for school , did not like the idea of being home with them 24 , seven , right .

But being able to say like this is where we find ourselves , this is what is true in this moment , enabled me to carve out a realistic path to make that reality go the way that I wanted it to go .

And what often happens is because we don't want to be low vibe or because we can't practice being a bunge , right , yeah , we refuse to accept what it and what might be right now is . Actually , I hate my job . Actually I'm PMSing , actually my kid was a complete turd today and I'm questioning this decision to have a child to begin with .

Like , whatever it is , that is not low vibe . That is where you are right now . Yeah , that is your truth in that moment . And the in this moment part is the important part . Like , can you we're not encouraging , wallowing either ?

Right , it's not about , like , telling some big story about how , like , you had always questioned whether you should have a child or not , but your partner was really down with it and so you came . And this is just a one more example of all the ways that you have not listened to yourself .

Like , no , no , no , the story is not necessary and is not serving you , because you done had the kid , okay , or you scrap the offer , or you did whatever the thing is , or you find yourself where you find yourself , right , you're PMSing because you ate like crap all month and your hormones are a little screwy , okay , but we don't need those details .

What is true is that , right in this second , I'm off , right , this minute , money is not coming in as easily as I would like it to write . This minute , this client fired me , or nobody's opening my email , or I can't make XYZ work . Yeah , okay , fine , so get into that place , that's okay . Yeah , okay .

So in that , like , we still need I feel we still need the pieces of why you , your PMS is worse or your money is not coming in , but to a later point in time .

Right , some degree , right , like as , like a healthy dose of reflection of like , hey , those are things that contributed to me feeling like shit because I haven't slept , I haven't eaten properly , whatever . But the difference between making a story about something and looking at something factually , yeah , right , yes .

So , like , are you making it mean something or are you talking about it the way like I don't know , but the way a police officer would write his report or the way an attorney would talk , and well , they try to be persuasive , but right , like something , very , insurance , like for insurance . Like , right , like it's not about it . Yeah , yes , and it's just .

This is what happened and we don't need to like , make it mean something . Right , and that's not . How , though , the Practicing being okay regardless , noting your okayness when there's all that I'm what's going on in the moment , yeah , and breathing , I like this room , I have a friend that I can bitch to about these things .

Find your okayness in the midst of the in air quotes , not okayness . So , going back to what we said before , like , oh , okay , I am PMSing right now , or money is then coming in right now , as I want to stay on the example , and shit , so , like . So the first thing then would be , in that very moment , to regulate your body , regulate yourself .

You're not getting anywhere without , well , but here's the thing . So , because this whole like notion of just sell band-aids does in fact , make people money but rarely actually works .

Part of why it is so vital to be able to be really honest about where it is you find yourself is because you will continue to hose your nervous system if you cannot be honest about it . So people often do this with anger , and they will .

They will feel angry and they will try to , like , breathe through it , right , and you , like you can't make that shit go away , and if you do , it will just keep coming back right , if you just try the pies on the rock will just get bigger and bigger . Yes , right .

And so you can do the same thing with shame or with Well , primary big emotion , right , I mean , yes , shaves at you , one of the most damaging ones , the one that lingers the most , even longer than anger . Yes , I mean , shame is perfect for that .

And so I find that , like we often don't want to deal with those emotions because we feel that their origin is illogical , right , so we what's my- . I just like I just had an example from my husband .

I was like he did something that pissed me off and but like it wasn't , it wasn't actually that right , and it wasn't actually him and some piece of my head knew that , but I still felt the anger , right .

And so , yes , the key was not taking it out on him , recognizing that what I think is the thing is not actually the thing , but the anger is here and so what am I going to do with it ?

Right , I don't know why , because I haven't been PMSing recently , but I keep using that example , like it can be a gift to be made aware of such a raw emotion , even if it because it doesn't make sense , right , like you , just I don't know watch a dog being saved on an Instagram video and you're bursting into tears and you're like this doesn't even make sense

and it doesn't . And yet , like , if you can sit with that and let it be okay that you did in fact have those feelings and I'm just going to watch what my body is doing , right , I don't need to change this . Part of the problem is that we label shame or anger bad .

And again , if we can drop the label good , bad , well , happy , good , anger bad , right . So , like , let's make it go away as fast as possible and we're going to breathe and do like a calm meditation and then we'll be okay again , yeah , right , and that still indicates a belief in good and bad , right , yes , absolutely . So I am curious .

Let's circle a bit back to the thing like , oh , the doggy , the YouTube dog , the sad YouTube dog , like I feel I mean , I don't know , I'm a TV show crier . Like I mean I'm like whatever , I just did it yesterday . Yeah , I'm like , yeah , so , anyway , I mean great outlet if you use it at that .

But I feel a part of that like if , whatever , it's kind of like a little I don't know trigger really word bad case but kind of like a trigger that opens up , let's say , all your emotions are in like a style , in a cupboard kind of style , and each drawer has like a motion shame , anger , sadness , whatever and that little doggy makes like this drawer of

sadness go a bit open and everything that is inside that is on process spills out like the body of Pandora . So it's not actually the doggy , maybe , but like all your whole fucking history of sadness up to this point . Yeah , so See , but if you give meaning to there being a lot in your sadness , why am I like this every month ?

This is ridiculous , yeah , why can't I just be happy ? I never have my shit together because , yes , right , it's giving meaning to how you are . And the thing is , it's not that I don't want you to have less sadness in your proverbial cupboard . I would love that for you , right , but you don't need a change in order to be okay .

And the more we can like , step into that , the more we can recognize I can handle whatever it is that comes along with me watching YouTube , with me watching a show that's going to make me . Well , I mean the thing is right , like , how granular do you want to get about this ?

Because you could get to the point where you're like no , get to YouTube , because every once in a while I bump into a doggie video that makes me cry and I'm uncomfortable with my sadness . So we're just not doing anything over there , right ?

But we , that would sound ridiculous to many of us , but we do the exact same thing , just at a , at a different application , right , where it's like oh , I'm not going to like , let myself make more money , because then my mom is going to say it must be nice that you could buy yourself clothes , or because then my dad is going to be like well , your mother

and I always wanted to go to Switzerland , but we couldn't , right , and yeah , right , so we hold ourselves back . Yeah , yeah .

So I'm like the the avoiding the doggie video . Yeah , dad , I have a bit of back . I'm watching the Instagram story of someone and I , I don't know , I must say , uh , it's one of the three people I probably should unfollow , but I sometimes like to hate watch them . I'm just going to let that go .

Yeah , I mean , yeah , you can box me later and be like Dan , what the fuck ? But anyway , like , so she's , she's a business , business , life coach , whatever , um , and she says some great things Well , all of them , but some of them are pretty smart .

Anyway , um , though , she posted something about , yeah , not watching the news because it would dysregulate her nemeson . Um , it's kind of like doggy example , right , like you're not watching that because it makes you super sad . And I'm like , yeah , I get that to a point when you really feel this is not good for you , dad , yeah , don't , that does get in time .

I'm like , bitch , you're going to know what's going on in the world . Like I mean , all right , at least that's my projection , right ? So my first question there was like , to what end ? Like knowing what's going on in the world . Yeah , see , here's the thing . Because you could watch it , because you are used to making yourself miserable .

You could watch it because you like the anger that it stirs up in you when you see people of a certain political persuasion doing shit you don't understand . Yeah , or it confirms that nothing is changing , so you also don't have to change . Yes , whatever . I mean for a million different reasons . Yeah , you could watch it .

Or you could watch it to be informed and to be grateful that you have I don't know you're not currently living in some Sudan , or you don't have any relatives there , or yes , or you could use it to advocate or to know where it is . You want your philanthropic efforts to go , or whatever .

Right , this is the thing is like I can't tell you that a thing is going to be an air quote good or bad for you , because only you can discern for yourself , if you've practiced it , whether it's a good thing I'm doing or a bad thing .

Yes , are you doing it to just confirm how it is you are , or are you doing it because it's shaping you into the kind of person you want to be ? Okay , so , if I mean , if you cannot tell me , thanks very much Like . You should know that at this point .

I know , I know , I know , I know I've been on the receiving end of like I cannot tell you , I know , god damn it like , um , but even a few pointers . So For ourself , if this isn't actually good or bad because I Mean , I , I'm , I mean it takes one to know one right , like , there are a lot of things .

Maybe in a moment you're good , yeah too , hmm , um , that if you look at it long term , may not , so , how , that's why you said good and bad and I did not . Okay , I'm go , I'm , I bumping down a level from my master lender level awareness payment . I feel like in a Donkey Kong game of the 80s .

You know where the Donkey Kong is upstairs and it's rolling , yes , barrels , and you like chop , chop , chop . Yeah , okay , I'm knocking down to level one . Okay , how can we just eat before ourselves it ? Right , labels Like this is not like better or worse . I am not like sitting on some kind of high horse over here like . I mess this shit up all the time .

I'm just Particularly skilled at noticing it in other people . Hmm , right , um , I'm particularly skilled at catching the words of others . Um , being raised by narcissists has its advantages , because you start catching Every word gotta be , and you gotta be good with clues and hints and buy it and right . So , um , to your actual question what do we ?

How do we know ? Right ? Yeah , let's raise that , let's leave it . Or a narcissist part for another episode . That's a different episode . So , are you reacting to your body ? This is why we can't use good and bad . Right , because you could just be reacting to your body . My body feels Sad , tired , so my body feels stressed .

I will go eat the tub of hog and dogs , right ? That's not necessarily what is good for you , right , because it is a reaction rather than an intentional choice .

And the thing is like you can make intentional choices that Actually hose you , right , but if it was intentional , you will understand why you did that thing and you will be able to make an intentional choice . To pivot out of that thing . Yeah , is not actually what it is you want .

So , rather than good , bad , I Think of it more like are you being proactive ? Are you being intentional ? Are you conscious of what it is you're choosing and why ? Do you understand the underlying Motivation , yeah , for your decision , or is it just like ? This is what I felt like doing . This is what seemed right at the time .

I'm not even sure why , right , I read this thing and it seemed like the thing to do . I watched the news , I and , yeah , I mean , we can react to anything . I can just as well sit down and eat a tub of hog and dogs because it sounds delicious and it's been a hot minute , yeah , right , this is why I can't tell a person .

But you have to start feeling , like , what is the reason behind my decision ? In prep work , which you are obviously familiar with , I talk about Asking yourself why , over and over and over and over . Why are you doing , or why are you making the decision that you're making or the choice that you're making ?

And at some point , you're either going to kind of why ?

Yourself into a circle and you're going to understand that , like you're doing this because someone else said so , or because you've been conditioned to think this is the right thing to do , or because , like , it just seems right , but you can't really put your finger on it , or because there's some kind of underlying fear , right , if I don't , well , then , well , I

know it will happen , right ? Or you heard so no , and yes , yes , exactly right You've been . I Haven't considered any other option , so I guess I'm got to right .

The other possibility is you start asking why , over and over and over , and eventually you get really annoyed with me asking why , and you say because I want to , okay , like , I just want to . And that's when you know like , oh well , you just want to .

Then like , go with my blessings , right , yeah , you're just choosing to do the thing as it goes to being driven by Something you don't want . Yeah , that's the whole of like why you're kind of like energy or Bob , you're bringing into situation matter .

Oh yeah , I feel like there's another layer , like as well to this , right , like , if you Know you did something in a situation , it's kind of like you need to know that this was the best you could at the time .

Right like , I mean , it took me quite a while to figure out that since I haven't learned or I haven't been modeled Recuit like nervous system , body regulation as a kid , yeah , thanks . Mom thinks that that also a society at large . Society at large , but thanks . Nurses , yeah , parents , but , um , like , I used food to regulate myself .

Yeah , right , like dirty food , carbohydrate , oh yeah , feeling good , yeah , um , so Dad kind of , and like I need to . I had , or I wasn't , a process of accepting that that was the best I could at that time , otherwise my whole body would have giggle like and and dad again .

If , if you see certain things happening over and over again , like Sometimes there is also , like Like a real biological reason for a fake . Yet , yes , right , like I mean I Recently learned , like I don't know , I might also be an HD , hd club . Woohoo , no , like you're still ongoing , the jury's out .

So that would make total sense then that obviously that you have , you needed some sort of self-regulation and that's harder . And you went through something else like it's really , yeah , as you said . Like looking at that and then Knowing and I feel that's another Conautic mind , fuck , do not like shit on yourself . Or yes , the things you did right .

So I mean we've all heard like what got you here won't get you there . Yeah , yeah , yeah , what you got to your first and cable not get you , another came up . Yeah , like we have got to stop Centering everything around money . Like , no , we've got to , I was just , I was . No , I get it . That's gonna be actually how people use it .

Yeah , exactly , yeah , right , I mean , I was just like I have to , like it was , the silver platter was there and I just but yeah , is it ? Oh , okay , this means that we can also use this retroactively , though , right , is that , like , the strategies that you have now weren't necessarily available to you ? That , right ?

Like in the example of you being a kid and Finding safety in food , right , well , if I'm not going to be hugged enough , I can at least have a full enough belly that my body won't die . Right ? Well , that's not how you think of it as a 20 , 30 , 40 year old ?

Right , because you understand you could feed yourself no matter what , but when you're a little kid , you don't depend on your food source , which is your caregiver . Like , yes , right .

And so we , when we are learning to give ourselves grace , it is understanding that the level of thinking that you are reflecting on your choices in the past was not available to you then . Right , and , on the same token , the Level of decisions that you will be able to make in the future , you cannot possibly conceptualize right now .

And so the things that you are doing right now , the more you practice not giving those things meaning , the more that you practice understanding that those things are just Serving a purpose , right , the easier it is to let go of those things .

So , if you are overly married to podcasting , right , because like , oh , this is how people hear about me and then this is my Magical silver bullet and yes , better , like , better , fucking work , right . Or else . But then , and if it does right now , that's great .

And in five years , when the landscape has completely changed , if you are still married to this idea of like , yeah , but I'm a podcaster , right , you're either Not going to allow yourself to do the thing that does work To get the result that you want , or you're not going to allow yourself to just do the podcasting because you enjoy it and you , or whatever it

, whatever other thing you want to do now , right . You're also kind of like Rebooting your own cheat , your own possibility to change , yes , right . So this is the thing , is like .

This all relates to this Meeting making that we've been talking about is because the more Significance we give to our decisions right now , the harder it will be in the future when those decisions are no longer serving us .

Right , and the more meaning you have given to your decisions right now , the harder you're going to be on yourself for the decisions that you've made in the past . Any of them . Seven . Disclaimer I need a mean meaning making machine monk . Hi , we can do that .

Yeah , which , which that was also benefit insider , because in Jass's online Worse work school prep work we have an entire imaginary merch shop . It's true , it goes into the merch shop .

So I feel kind of like we we have come like beautifully will circle with Not making meaning , not trying to pretend we have any fucking idea what's gonna happen in the future , and Instead of having an outside in that definition were definition building way , we gotta go lip it and be it's let out , having the knowing that whatever like gets thrown at us , we can

handle it . Yes , and here's what I'll say you need both , right , but part of why I talk so much about the side that I am talking about is because the flip side gets talked about a lot . You could go buy a few hundred different workshops on your vision boards and how to manifest , and , and , and , and and .

To some degree , that is true , like to some degree those things will work and to some degree , you do need the skill set of being able to say like this is what I'm going for , this is what I want for myself . This is where I'm heading . This , like , the ownership piece is just as important .

It's just that the ownership piece is already emphasized for most of us , right and and so , like . It's not just about that . Yeah , right , and the more we can way right , like , am I having an ownership problem or am I having , like , an , a capacity or an attachment problem ? Right , the , the more we know which way to lead , right ?

So , like you labeling me pessimistic , yeah , I , it is harder for me to own what it is that I want . I am naturally just really comfortable with shit , right ? I naturally tolerate a lot , and so I know that about myself .

And that means that I have to stretch myself in the direction of , like , allowing myself to say , yeah , but this is what I want , yeah , this is what I'm going for . No , I don't know if it's going to work . I don't know if it's going to happen , but if I've really , like , decided that that is what I want , then I will work it until it works .

Right , and because I have such a tremendous capacity , I should be able to do that . Like , I should be able to get knocked down 20 times and say , yeah , I still want this day . And so here we go , 21 right and like . But that's the trick is knowing which way you lean and then making sure that you're accounting for that .

Yeah , which , yeah , which always starts with I don't know either get a big top hack and dust or a big bottle of red wine and start big rig shit . That is certainly one method . I mean not say that's the recommended way to do that , so I mean one way for sure that I could recommend going at . This is working with you . So where can people find you like ?

See , like I'm like I was very slick , I know , right , I'm like , I'm impressed by why , sometimes , like some days I'm impressed myself and other days I don't know , I I put shit in the oven and like I don't know whatever , you don't know why it comes out .

Yeah , yeah , or I like last maybe that was also that , maybe that was my kid , but I found like in the oven and I'm like I don't , I don't , I know I well , I don't know with whatever . But how people find you online chat ? Okay , so the best is to go to my website , jessica Ely eleycom .

I have a resources page there and also like links up to all of the other podcast episodes I've done before . Some people enjoy binge listening to me , so I've been told I am also a Instagram stories person . You can also find the very diagram that picked off this entire conversation on my Instagram , which is I am Jess Ely .

I always feel like it does need to disclaimers because Jen and Jess's stories are they're , they're good , they're long posts , they're , they're fucking sub stacks or media posts like yeah , I don't know . So you , you , I don't know .

Instagram should invent like a feature where you just have to press like this it's some story once and it just stays that way because , yes , you're pressing is Jess's story for like five minutes until you read and process the entire fucking post that it's like you know . I hear that some people just take a screenshot . Oh , those are the very sort .

Yeah , true , just thank you so much

for being up . I always have , I always forgot . I always have one last question what book are you currently reading ? Um , wait , what am I reading ? Well , I'm reading a few things . I'm reading Harry Potter again which one ? But I'm on three . No reason , no particular reason why .

I also recently dusted off a course in miracles again , probably actually where I really learned to this whole like , and by learned I mean like , picked up very slowly over time , right , there's , no , it's a lot of paper , is a lot like so and not be .

I have to go to sit down and read this book like , oh god , no , but I a lot of my like learning to not make things mean .

Things probably came from there and then just like some smutty books because you know , I have a lot of the headphones on and it's how I pretend that I'm not taking care of my four kids , though if I read too many smutty books , I may end up with a fifth kid , so maybe I should stop that .

Yeah , okay , yeah , that well , I mean , depends on where you want to go . Right , like a true , true , for is a good number , I think true . I mean , I would always ask is five , did not that that number where you need like a bigger car , or could five squeeze in a current car ? Or do you need like to rebuild your house , because four would fight today .

Okay , five , you got to go live in the basement . I'm sorry , yeah , we're not planned . Well , I got a banner off now . Um , yes , thank you so much for being on the seat . Thank you for having me . I appreciate it .