¶ Pamela George
Pamela George is a financial powerhouse , but it wasn't always that way . Born into poverty and raised by an illiterate mother , Pamela George , a first-generation Canadian , now consoles numerous influential broke a cycle of poverty, healed women about the power of financial literacy .
She from her childhood money trauma and today stands proud as a financially empowered woman . Pamela teaches women how to be financially empowered through her signature framework, the seven pillars of money management .
Pamela hi welcome to Scenic Route podcast .
Jennifer . So I am super excited because today we're talking about something that every one of us has a history with and has a present and a future with . We're going to talk about money and all different kind of ways , probably more of the nasty side of things where we don't really want to deal with .
So I'm super excited that I have the sunny Pamela here to walk us through it , to hold our hands , so then we kind of get like an idea of who you are . Can you please briefly walk us through your story , like how you started , how you got where you today , like the pivotal crossroads , the big moment .
All right , okay , jennifer . Well , for me to do that we have to go back to Trinidad and Tobago . Oh , yes , it's Caribbean , yes , where you know little girl Pamela was . Tell me about little girl Pamela . Yes , so my mom , I was the eighth of nine children . Wow , who does for your mom ? Yes , and she raised us more or less on her own .
Wow , because so she had . So it's nine of us , five from her first marriage , four from her second , but the second marriage she was more or less doing everything on her own . In fact , I remember her saying , quite you know , flippantly , my father was the laziest man she's ever known .
She did it herself and what she did was support herself and create a lifestyle for her by running . For those of you who know Trinidad and cuisine , she had a roti shop , which is a curry dish . Do you know that ? Yes , yes , so she made a living by cooking and selling that in a little shop right outside of the house .
And the thing is , she couldn't read or write . No , wow , indian woman , and she was doing business . Yeah , yeah , so she's an Indian woman . Back in the day that would have never gone to school , she didn't even know the alphabet , but , man , she was good with money . And I look back now and I'm like how did she do inventory ? How did she balance Bookkeeping ?
Yeah , yeah , nothing . I guess she did , I don't know , but she was able to support her family and her lifestyle based on that and she did that for many , many years . And I remember when I was maybe like about five or six , she met a man because she was , by the time I'm that age , she and my father are no longer together .
Yeah , she met a man and as an adult woman , looking back , I think it was the first time she probably fell in love , because Indian culture back then , her two marriages were arranged marriages , right , so she would have been , I am thinking , around 45 and probably in love for the first time the first spring . Yeah , right .
And the thing is , when you're in love as a teenager or a young adult at the first time , you know what you do . Yes , there are consequences , but it's not as big as when you're 45 and you have nine kids . Yeah , we're too dumb to care , right . And she fell in love , and she fell in love hard .
And so at the time when she met this man , she had owned her house fully , paid for no mortgage or anything , because she's running this beauty shop on her own . Oh , the marriage doesn't end well , does it no ?
I thought so I had this net yeah .
Anyway .
And .
I'm going to get to how I started my business .
But what happened was she sold her property and against the advice of all her older children , and she moved in with my stepfather and it was my mom , my stepfather , myself and my younger sister sorry , my mom , my younger sister , myself and when she made that move , most of her adult children they stopped talking to her and the family which is split , and she
used the proceeds of a house to build a house on his property , on his land . And I don't know the exact time and in my mind I think it's about a month after the house was built . He literally threw us out in the streets , literally threw us out in the streets .
And I remember I mean , sometimes I wonder how much of it is influenced by Hollywood but I remember it being a night and the rain , it was raining and we're standing out there . Well , we could turn this into a movie Right Right , dear Lord yeah .
Well , yeah , but with that my mother has no education , no money , because everything went in the house two young daughters and so talking about I'm like about seven or eight , my younger sister is five years younger than me and we're there and nowhere to go , no halfway house , no , nothing like that .
So I remember my mother going and asking neighbors if we can stay there , and that was our life for many , many , many years .
Spend two weeks here , two weeks here , and I remember the longest we ever stayed anywhere was six months and that was in somebody's garage , and a garage in Trinidad and Tobago at the time is very different from a garage we know now in the first world country . Let me just say that .
I kind of yeah Right .
It was a struggle and I was able to . The older I got , the more I became aware of what was happening and why it happened . My mom died when I was 19 . And I suddenly became the primary caregiver of my younger sister , who would have been 14 . So I had to grow up pretty fast .
In fact , by the time I was like I was about 15 or 16 , my mom got very sick the stress and the heartbreak and she died at 60 , a very old woman , an old 60 . And so I had to grow up pretty fast , yeah , and rough . It was tough . You know , when you're poor , somehow the abuse just seems to come easier and faster towards you .
The abuse , the violence , the judgment , the harassment , and that's what we were exposed to . Right , it just came to us , no matter how hard it felt . No matter how hard it felt . It's like that .
Yeah , I get that . This is why you , so this is where my , this is where the sociologist comes in and me , like you , need to talk about the social implications of poverty . Right Like it's , it's like as money is creating a barrier against harassment and then judgment and false accusations and all these sorts of things , all types of abuse .
Yes , yeah , and somehow the abusers and the harassers feel it's okay to do that because we're poor . Of course You're worthless .
You're under them on the ladder , whatever that means . Yeah .
And I struggled , I suffered a lot , but you know , I have this beautiful , beautiful resilience spirit that I'm so proud of and so happy and grateful that I have it , that yeah , you're a gorgeous sunshine .
Thank you , yeah , no , I mean , you're just there like thank you , thank you , but I'll tell you this I , having struggled like that , spending so many years hopeless , I vowed I would not follow the same faith as my mother . So that involved me knowing . But what ? What does that mean If I don't want to follow the same faith as my mother ? What ? What is my ?
What did she do ?
And that was her like mistake . If you want to see like that , it's mistake .
It was mistake and that was odd because I loved my mother right and , and then when I started to examine and deep , go deep and reflect on on what happened that love while it was still there , I got angry and and I went through all the emotions of you know , and then eventually I accepted it but I'm like , okay , so I need to not do this , I need to
project myself and not do this . And you know it's , it's start . I I realize it started with education , so I started to learn a little bit about money . The thing is you're poor and you're struggling . You don't have mentors . I have not mentors . I didn't have anybody willing to help me do anything , but that happens .
And you're also I assume you also do not have a lot of mental and emotional capacity to learn right . It's not on the forefront on your mind because you're struggling just to get by . Yeah , survival mode .
When you're in survival , you don't have capacity for that . But you know what ? I was able to somehow do it and I was able to claw myself and my sister out of poverty .
We were able to get out of that and I was able to finish school , so was my sister , and we got little jobs here and there and eventually , you know , every job was better than the one before , right , yeah , and slow and steady , exactly , and the the .
Every time I got a better job , I always had this influence , the test thing where , okay , gotta learn , gotta learn because I didn't learn so much .
There was so much I didn't learn in my teenage years and early 20s because I was surviving , right so , and a big part of the learning was was financial literacy , because I saw , didn't want to end up like my mother , because I saw what she did and how it affected like four generations , siblings , stuff , like the .
My youngest sister and I we were with my mother , but there were other children and they had children and there's this big rift right now , even now , right With the siblings and their children and so forth .
So I just wanted to make sure that didn't happen to me and I just educated myself I , very early o'clock in the game , I came across the concept of money mindset and I started to do some work . It started with forgiveness forgiving my mother , forgiving myself , because I blamed myself for a lot of stuff .
And especially like forgiving your mom's let's call him abuser because he was abusing her . Oh , he was , without any doubt . Yeah , yeah
¶ Empowering Women Through Personal Financial Stories
.
So also , like I mean , I don't know , I always feel so bad when , like good people , like your mother right , like good to a fault , right , I've taken advantage of just for being good people , like good hearted people yeah , you can call them naive and whatever , and it's always wise to I don't know , not do I don't know silly things , but you should never be
in a position to kind of like always double check I feel I don't know , yeah .
I guess she was a good , good woman . I get that she was a mean man , I see . I mean , I lived there for a few years and I said I know what it's like to live with the devil . That's what I say . There was a poem by someone , a refugee , I think it's from .
She was from Iran or Iraq , one of those countries , and she wrote a poem and she said you know , when you leave home , you leave home when home is the mouth of a shark . And I still remember that right I was . I'd prefer to be homeless and houseless than go back and live with that devil , as I call him right .
Anyway , one thing led to another and I was able to just get myself out of this poverty , not just the physical poverty but the poverty mindset , and I came up with this system that worked for me and I got to a place where I was happy , where I am . I felt like I had .
You know I was healing and just so you know , the healing is still happening but it's never dying right .
I don't know . I always like that's what I tell my clients when they're like aren't we like done with this shit ? And I'm like , well , you're never done , Well , you'll be done . When you are done , like , quite literally , yes , on your last day you'll be done , right , that's when you're done . That's when you're done right , there will always be .
It's kind of like this never ending tower of bubble . There's always another floor up and , regardless whether you wear your ad in your business or in your personal life , like , it'll always be , there will always be more . Yes , yeah , and it's . But you need to flip it to see the beauty of that .
Yeah , right , yep , and yeah , and then . So , you know , one thing led to another . I moved to Canada and got myself a job . I was looking at a college in financial aid and I'm relancing , you know , coming from Trinidad and Tobago , going to snowy Canada , going to snowy Canada .
But Canada is an affluent by and large , I mean , for the most part , canada is an affluent country . I live in Canada , in Ottawa , Canada , which is the city , it's the capital of Canada , it's the seat of government , right , and it's , you know , I would say , an affluent city .
But then , working with students in financial aid , I'm realizing there's so many parents couldn't afford to get a student loan because their credit was trash or they had so much debt , so much credit card debt , and that time of day , and that made me curious and it reminded me of , okay , you know what my mom went through and what we went through , and I'm
seeing folks now going into , you know , money problems , and it reminded me of the situation with my mother and over the years , I'm like you know what I feel . Women in particular need help and I could help them because I am a woman who clawed my way out of poverty .
Oh , wow , I mean right and I felt I if only from experience , I felt I could have helped other women . But what I did ? I went and I got accredited . I'm now a fine , an accredited financial counselor , and I've upgraded my skills . I've become accredited and qualified that I can counsel anybody , but I choose to work with women and show them .
Listen , you can be struggling with money what is a way out of this , and it's not just while it's very important the numbers , the dollars and cents , that's very , very important . You need to tie that in with what I call trauma-informed money mindset . You need to bring in those two together , right , and that's what I do .
That's the I believe that's my unique value proposition .
Yes , yeah , like this , like bracket Branding , less than the income . Yes , so I'll tell you .
I call it the tri-vector . So that is there's my story , which is there for inspiration . There's the numbers and the dollars and cents . That's there for the financial literacy , and then there's the trauma-informed money mindset that's there for the healing . And that is what I call the tri-vector and that's what I do .
My story is an integral part of my work because I have lived it . I have lived it so I not just live poverty . I've lived through a divorce , I have gone through it all and , as a business owner , I'm going through it now . You know how it is , the cash flow situation sometimes , especially during COVID . So no , that's what I do now .
I work with women and my tagline is I work with women who are ready to change their relationship with money so they can live the life that they really want to live , not the life that's supposed to live , not the life that they're living , but the life that they really want to live . Yeah , yeah , that's beautiful .
Yeah Well , first off , thank you so much for sharing your story carefully . And yeah , like , branding less than incoming , right , like there is almost there's always so much beauty in your story and it doesn't like .
Sometimes people like when I talk to my clients they're like , well , but I never like nothing big happened to me , you know like well , I don't know , do you wish something bad to happen to you ? We all have a story . We all have a story . We all have trauma and trauma is not . There is no like , oh , I have bigger trauma than you do .
Like it is no competition . When your body like releases a trauma response , it doesn't matter . It was big to you and that's all it matters .
And , as said right Like back to kind of like more like the branding business Lens yes , it's not a prerequisite to have your story when you're helping people doing budgets and planning for the retirement , but just if you think of working with someone and you know they have their story , this upbringing , and you're in the same boat , I don't know , I always rather
navigate towards those people , kind of I kind of like that , oh , they get me , yes , right , and yes , also other people can get you , but I don't know , I always feel it's different . Yeah , I feel that .
So , you know , we all talk in business , we talk about , you know , our ideal clients , right , and we want to zero in on them . I feel that the people who can relate to my story have similar stories , mm-hmm , and , and they are the ones who come to me and they make the perfect clients . Yeah , and I love that . I love that .
And If my story inspires someone , that tends to be what pulls them into me . Yeah , and then there's just this deeper connection and and the work although it's it could be hard work at times , it's beautiful at the same time yeah , yeah .
I mean that's a differentiator , right . Like that's , that's the value driver , right . The inspiration , the oh wow , if she did it , I can do it too . Yes , I mean because I mean they are a shit ton of people who can do your accounting . There are shit ton of people who can do your branding like we're all like let's be real , that's cool .
But the actual , the value driver , inspiration to me is such a big value driver . If you're like wow , okay , I , whenever , every time I talk this person , I feel like lit up , I'm so excited , I'm like ready to go into action mode .
That feeling if you get that with someone you can't buy that like you can't it though , yeah , and I and I I never used to tell my story , you know .
So I'm in business five years now and I think the first two years , even two and a half years , I didn't tell that story . That . I just told to everybody who is listening to this . That's right now . They're my dear Thomas from Trinidad .
She had a tough , you know , yeah , but not like not the detail that I go into but I started doing that , I think sometime 2020 , when , you know , as , as a entrepreneur , we wear so many hats . So I guess I was wearing my marketing hat that day and I started doing research and , you know , I started to read and then one thing left another books and etc .
And I realized , wait a minute , that's my story . I think it started with Simon select what's your life ? I think , yeah , I think I saw the , the tattoo , yeah , yeah , that's a good way in to think , for sure . And then I'm like , oh , I need to know my why . Of course , I know my why , but what ? Do other people know my why ?
And that's when I really started to first of all embrace my story for what it is , yeah , and and then comfortably enough to share it yeah , so it's not on my website . I don't , I don't hold back that . I grew up in poverty and I was , you know , abused and and all of that . I know , you know I wear it as a badge of honor .
Yeah , yeah it there's really something about that right it and it's not . You can still decide which parts to keep private . Right like it's not . You don't create relatability through kind of like a share it all Piper for the approach .
That's not the case , but it's just really I always kind of like , think of like , like we anyone who is listening is I , I know I go out on a limb is the eater , solopreneur , wanting to become a solo entrepreneur , or has like a small team , and so you're not like a big international corporation .
So Do actually what I don't know what you like play your strength , play your like , play your aces . That's actually doing shit . It doesn't scale . Like . Actually go back to hey , this is me , this is what I do and like , this is the trauma I had and this is how I , this is how I healed from it .
Yes , yes , and I think woman in particular , we , we have a unique way of doing that . I , hmm , I was talking to a lady a couple weeks ago and she her story . She started a business around her story which was she was married , abusive relationship , and she spent three years trying to get out of the marriage and putting an exit plan into place .
It took her three years saving money , doing what she had , yeah , quietly , while being abused , and eventually she left and after a few years she has this really successful business now in the US .
But it just , you know , when you really willing to take your story , there's so many people now with her that they're so drawn to her because what she basically does is help them with an exit plan when they're in a troubled relationship like that , and that's her business , right , and and she's open about what she does and , of course , woman who in a similar
situation are drawn to her and they come to her . She helps them and Benefit in all the ways that she can help them .
So , yeah , our story is , I feel , as a big asset as yes that is , yeah , I mean you're especially the discos for all the service providers . You are providing the service . Yes , you are your big , your business , biggest asset , right ?
Yep , all of you , yeah like y'all , biggest asset , yes , yeah , again yes like the good things and the shitty things and the traumas and like all of it . So bring it to the table . Yes , right , and , and I feel , was there some part of you when you I'm curious where you shared , when you , in 2020 , you said you started to share it more openly ?
Was that also part of your healing process ?
Yes , yes it was Not just the actual words , sharing it like that , but Having people hear me and come to me with love and affection and understanding and empathy that helps with my healing .
Yeah you see what was more about you had to become a version of you that allowed this empathy and affection flow be flowed towards you . Yes , yes .
Yep , and you know
¶ Healing Women's Money Trauma
you . Earlier on in the podcast you said I'm sunshine , I'm so bubbly and bright . That's , that's who I am . So I think people didn't expect such a sad story . To be honest , folks who didn't know me Didn't expect such a story so well . It was this big impact and and and shock .
I think so , and you know they'd write me or , you know , take me off a car for a while . I think so , and you know they'd write me , or , you know , take me off a coffee . And just wanted to just be nice . Yeah , yeah , yeah , right , and that's really nice . And and being open to accepting that and hearing that Was was very healing for me .
Yes , I yeah , Wow .
So how are you now supporting women healing from I let's go . I'd say most of the women who comes see you come see you because they have some sort of intense money Situation or money trauma going on .
So they usually start following me and I'll tell you , clients usually follow me for like a minimum of six months before they even Like a post or even say hello to all the shadow lurkers out there . We know what you're doing . Yes , right , I wouldn't . I wouldn't even know . And then they'll book a call and I'll be like so how did you hear about me ?
Oh , I've been following you for six , seven months , two years whatever , I think that is .
Why do you think you have such a long or long ?
lead up time books are shamed of their money situation . They they want to know if I can really help them . Am I trustworthy ? Like , who is this woman ? Who is she talking about ? All of this ? Let me get to know . It's a very vulnerable thing . Right , money and and that and see yeah , and see right . So they do that .
And when they feel comfortable enough to reach out to me and they tend to reach out to me because , well , a few things . But they usually struggling with consumer debt . If they have no debt , they are struggling with a budget and While they're meeting the everyday expenses , they know they're not maximizing that . They know they could do so much better .
Like you know , I work for $150,000 . Well , at the end of the month , if I have like a penny left , so exactly , exactly , and and that situation will only go on for so long and then they'll start going into debt again , right ? So there's that , um , there are some women .
It's kind of like as if you can't hold . So you can get into , kind of like the capacity of receiving more money , but you cannot hold it . Yes , or sustain it . I'm fine , we're going to talk about that . I'm going to talk about that ?
Yeah , so that's . It's usually that , um , some of them just getting by because you know they landed a really good job and , um , they just doing what they think they should do . But they know that they don't understand what they're doing and they know that's not sustainable . So they reach out for help .
Um , but I'll tell you , they all know , inherently , they all know , that it's not just the dollars and cents , it's not the numbers alone . They all know they have some history with money . Everyone have a money story . Uh , they all know that there's some stories , some money mindset issues going on with money .
So they come to me because they know I can help them with post and , of course , they would have heard about my story . So they're really into it . So that's why they come to me . Um , I think when they come to me , they don't expect to go as deep as we go .
That goes from my client's to their , with kind of like , oh , and I was scared , well , you better be .
So we go and my work is gentle , but you know , I mean we , like I always say you have a $50,000 in credit card debt , I don't . Yes , we get you on a plan to pay it all that debt , sure , but if we don't fix the root cause of that , you're going to end up in debt again .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .
So we figure out what the problem is like . Like , what is the root cause of this During the pandemic ? So , um , overwhelm was always an issue . But what was- ? Or consumer debt or a ?
firm Just life , oh well , real life .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , that was something that it's called adulthood . Primarily it's called adulthood . It was always there , but you know , there would be a lot of um , well , I'm in a shitty marriage and that's causing it . Some other things , some childhood stuff . That's causing it what I'm seeing now . The overwhelm is out there .
It's like that's the first thing . That is really like superseding all the other stuff . There's so much overwhelm happening that women are just driving themselves crazy . Yeah , or just shutting down like no , I'm not gonna yeah , not again . Yeah , not even Exactly . So , um , I am too tired and I'm too busy to cook , so we just order food .
Well , you order food too many times and eventually you can't afford it , right , but then for you to sit down and plan the meals and go grocery shopping and stuff Don't have the capacity to do it , you don't have the capacity Exactly , and um , so , so we have , and they don't . They're so busy and they don't have it sounds like a really bad cycle .
It is a bad cycle . So . So , with when I work with my clients , I'm like let's take a pause . Let's take a pause and see what you like could look at like without doing two jobs . Because you see , the thing is we feel that if we have money trouble , the best thing or the thing to do is to just get a second job or increase income .
Yeah , and have more , exactly Like increase the income , right ? Yeah ? Yeah , I don't know . Most people say you have two sides to command this either increase income or cut spending .
Yeah , I say it's both , it's both , it's both . But if you have a deficit of a thousand dollars in your budget , I don't expect you to cut a thousand dollars . Neither do I expect you to bring in an additional thousand dollars in income . Yeah , but if you don't know what you're doing , you'd think that you need to bring in a thousand dollars .
And then you're looking at not having . You know you're working how many hours a week now , have no time for the kids , have no time to plan your meals , no time to shop in the grocery for the food . And then it's just like this , like you say , it's like this revolving door just in our catch 22 .
Yeah , we're not even talking about like health falls yeah .
Yeah , exactly , yeah , right . And then your kids are growing up now without you spending time so much time with them . They're seeing that money just stresses you out . Imagine the money lesson you're giving them . Right , they are seeing that money is stressful . You got to work hard for money .
Yeah , you got to work hard .
Money is stressful , money is hard work , money is everything you don't want , basically , and you are creating their mindset for them that they grow up and they just repeat the cycle that they saw their parents live . So how to break the cycle Behavior ? We got to change our behavior .
And to change our behavior we need to do a bit of money mindset work together with , because we could do all the money mindset work and we don't can balance the budget . Does that make sense ? No , likewise Right , I am .
Yeah , we don't balance the budget and we don't fix your scarcity mindset , then yeah , that's the thing where a lot of the also kind of like all these like I don't know attraction , where visualization board , mood board things fall short . Yeah , you can do all the affirmations you want If you don't have the capacity to hold them and to execute on them .
Like you can say affirmations until you're I don't know , until you fall down in your grave , yeah , yeah .
I mean , and I said that to a new client I had last week and she is overspending by $2,000 . And she was telling me that every morning she says money mantra . She got this from some guru . Money right ? Oh , I love the gurus , yes . And she's like I'm seeing my money mantra .
I haven't written on my . I do all the things , but why am I overspending ? Yeah ?
Yeah , right , so tell her . I said let's look at your budget , let's leave the mantra aside , let's look at your budget . And then we were able to bring it down . We got it to a place where she can now supplement her income with a couple hundred dollars and yeah , that's , that's what we had to do . I had to see where the budget was and what was happening .
I mean spending $2,000 , close to $2,000 , in takeout . Come on , we got to fix that first , right ?
Yeah , it's not fixed completely yet , but she knows what you're kind of like going to , but also , like , as I said , like going to the root , kind of like the root cause of the thing . Like why are you actually spending , I don't know ?
I mean take out money , and it's always kind of like it seems like an easy enough thing to answer superficially , Right , Like I mean I don't know . I remember when I was in corporate , I mean I don't know , I still , I have still learned swear . I'm really not that good with money , but I know why it's happening .
Yes , so at least like okay , yeah , I mean okay .
And you try to cause correct the next month , that's the thing , yeah , yeah , yeah , Right , Like I need .
I know . For me personally , I know because I'm dealing with chronic pain and I feel so powerless when I have kind of like a flair . Money or food are the things I can control . So that's when I have the tendency to overspend yes , Because I can control , whereas other things I cannot . So , but so then I haven't and I can course correct .
The next month I probably got a higher . We got to go to the root cause of this . Yeah , I did not . I've already . I'm like well , it's not struggle , Like I'm not in debt or anything , right ?
Like , but no , I was talking about I didn't realize . You struggle with chronic pain because I do as well . Like , oh , I do as well . So what are you struggling with ? Yeah , who is struggling more ? I have been diagnosed with MS oh In 20 , late 2017 .
Yeah , 2017 . How are you , how are you keeping up with MS Um ?
my . What I get is severe , chronic pain all the time , like I'm in pain right now for the past hour that I've been giggling and laughing and stuff . I'm in pain right . After all , there's sinister Me too , yeah , yeah , and I go to bed , take a painkiller . I wake up at two , three in the morning . Guess what ?
There's the pain that makes me up , right , and that's that's what it is . Um , so it's pain and fatigue . I'm extremely tired , which is why I work in the morning and by by one or two o'clock I'm wrapping up to go home because I'm done . Yeah , I'm done .
Well , I mean , it's beautiful that you , that you're constructed , you structured your business in a way to suit you , to suit your needs , right , like that's ultimately what we're doing . Like this is why we're , why we're doing all of this right To be like nope , not today's Satan .
Yeah , I'm going , I'm going . I'm sorry to hear that you have chronic pain . I know the feeling , so yeah .
Because , yeah , you win , yeah , you win , you win the card with MS . You like to choke ? No , but I suffer from endometrosis and adenomyosis , which is the endometrosis in the uterus . Oh , I'm
¶ Budgeting and Healing Money Trauma
sorry . So every month there are a couple of bad periods as well as like IVS and the and celiacs .
But hey , like listen , we got this , we got this .
No , no problem , but but right , like I mean going back to that , I know that's where I'm like , oh , okay , but we're spending needing the course correct , right , and it took me a while to actually realize that right , because I don't know , it's it's . It usually is more of the superficial side when you're like , oh , why are you spending 2K on takeout ?
And you're probably I don't know , and so it's like , oh , I was too busy . Well , I were you too busy .
Well , I needed to make more money . Why you needed to make more money , and we just go deep and deep . But I'll tell you this A lot of people think that when they come to me , I'll be like you can't do this , you can't do this , you can't do this . Yeah , no , I have a process that I call value based budgeting .
We get , we do an exercise where we figure out what your values are whether you're talking more values , top three , core values and we ensure that that is represented and reflected in your budget . Yeah , all right , so let's , so , let's say , you say to me Pam , I have chronic pain and four times a month I can't cook , I can't , I can't do anything .
We need to find money in that budget where those days are covered , are covered , and we work together to find that . And that's how I work with my clients and budget and we work it and not , you see , a budget is more than you know what comes in and what goes out , and making sure there's not as much .
We go deep into that and and we design a budget that really suits your lifestyle .
Yeah , and especially because otherwise it's , you know it , like it's I don't know . I go back to like the dieting thing because I feel like there's so many similarities .
You know , I know everyone probably at least who grew up in like the nineties , with like the visual role models of women in the nineties Thank you , Um , that's some sort of like eating story , like food story as well .
And like if you go on a crash diet and you're like no , not eating anything , just have my water , and like I don't know , my crackers , um , and the same probably goes with food , with budgeting , right , if you're like , oh , I'm not spending any money , nothing at all .
Like you're going to live on ramen noodles , like you can maybe do it for a week or two , maybe you can push yourself to a month , whatever but it . But you always all got a crash and burn , right , like it's I .
that's why I really like the value approach of like hey , let's look at , yeah , value base and value based budgeting , and we also talk about topics such as consumerism and overconsumption , and and capitalism , and and that shows up in our lives , whether we we against capitalism or not . That comes in . We living in a world .
We are all against capitalism because , seriously , who is profiting from the system ? I bet it's not you and I . It's not anyone who's listening right now .
Right , so yeah .
So unless , like chat face is listening , then like okay , cool , you want to have it . Yeah , yeah , everyone else is not .
I am , but no , it's budgeting At least the way I do it , is completely different . It's not just an Excel spreadsheet , it's so much more . You know , I would love to work with you . My God , just hearing what you do and I'm like , oh bring it on .
Yes , yes , we do that , we do that . I don't know , I should look , I should look up your website , but kind of like that , not trust the Excel spreadsheet . We have to do something with there , with the messaging this is gold . We have to do something there . This is gold . Hey , I'm open to suggestions . Go for it .
Yeah , wait , there , there there is something . I'm not 100% there yet , but there is something , because no one actually likes Excel spreadsheets , exactly . There are a few people who do , and I love you , but most of us do not .
Especially when it comes to budget . A budget is not just numbers . A budget is your goals and your dreams and your plans . Yes , I always kind of yes , I always explain the directions .
It's more than the sums of its parts , right , like it's . It's a different entity , yes , but I'm curious again like you said , you , you healed your own money trauma .
Yeah , we kind of like circle bit back , because I'm sure a lot of people are now like oh yeah , I like are hearing themselves and the stories you've shared like or in your client , examples of like consumer debt , like anyone who's listening from the US also like college debt , huge issue , not here in Europe , luckily .
I mean consumer debt , like Chris , like we're recording this today , on Black Friday of all days .
So I mean consumer debt , yes , and then also kind of like I know I had , I share with you , like I had a client who had a like good launch and it was the first time she had like this big influx of money in a short period of time and like I don't know a bird of that period , it was gone again .
Like those are all kind of like how , how do we like if they're all trauma based , like the root of all of those are traumas and I know there we already said there are like a gazillion of traumas and there's no like one size fits all . But how can we start healing from those trauma ?
Okay , so my answer is going to be like a three part answer , so get ready . So I'll answer what I did to heal my trauma .
¶ Healing From Money Trauma and Patterns
So my trauma started with being angry with my mother for putting us through this , all right . But when I was able to realize that she just did the best with what she had , an old Indian woman back in the what 1970s right , and no educator . And her parents would have been immigrant indentured workers from India , right . So no education there either .
And what money stories would have been passed on to her ? What generational I don't like to use the word curse , but what generational stuff would have passed on to her through lessons and DNA and all of that , right . And then what they would have had .
So the minute I started to look outside of me , and then outside of my mother , and then my grandparents and their parents , et cetera , I realized that it's not their fault , it's not their fault . And what I inherited , it's just I inherited it . Nobody was like I am going to pass this on to Pamela George , no .
I just got a screwed Pamela .
Yeah , I did , yeah , no , yeah right , yeah , so I realized that , and that is when the forgiveness for my mother started and the forgiveness for my line , my generational line , that came before me . That was very what's the word ? Catartic is the word . I think Catartic , yeah .
Yeah , it is , it is the word and , yes , this process is catartic .
Yeah , and so forgiving her was like the pivotal point . And then there was forgiving me for being angry with her and all of that . And around that time I realized that this is a little bit too big for me to handle myself , because I've always been an introspective person .
So I was doing this by myself , reading books , you know , journaling and stuff and I realized , okay , this is a little too much for me to handle . Yeah , and I was what I've been like in my early thirties at the time and that's when I sought therapy . I went to therapy and I tried different therapies .
You know , I'll try somebody for a year and I can feel , okay , the work together is done . Now I need to go for a different type of therapy . Right , yeah , and I did . Yeah , and I did different types of talk therapy . I did cognitive , something it's called . I remember I did that . I did energy work as well .
I did lots and lots of work to really heal from that and I'm still doing work . But that's how it's done .
So when I work with my clients and we just touch the surface with a little bit of money trauma and trauma-informed money mindset I always say to them we are just doing the surface work here to get you aware of how it's affecting your money , and my advice is always go get a therapy session somewhere .
I always have referrals that I can send them because the work is only just starting with me . Yeah , and I'm not a therapist , I'm a financial counselor and I do focus on trauma-informed money mindset .
But usually we do enough work where we can affect the budget and affect the debt and affect the money right , but anything deeper than that they need to go and get full-fledged therapy and get some work done . So there's that . There was a second part to your question .
So that's how I feel I am healing and I will say healing , not healed from my money , trauma and from what happened to me . Was there a second part of your question ? I feel ?
no , no , no , that's what , yeah , yeah . And I just kind of want to start back on two things . One is like kudos to you for trying out different shit , right , like no , but seriously , like I mean I send people like oh yeah , like yeah , I tried that , like I tried journaling , it wasn't for me yeah , that's cool . Like journaling doesn't do shit for me .
Like I'm just , I'm not a bit , I'm not a writing person , I'm a talking out loud person . That's probably why no one was surprised I have a podcast , but I was late to the party .
But like , just try out different things and see how it makes you feel , right , like you don't know beforehand if I don't know what kind of therapy will release something , right , I mean , kind of , when she she did sound healing , she was like I love sound healing .
What was that ? I love it . Yeah , what I love it .
And she was like I cried like a baby yeah , yeah , I just don't know , just try different things . So I love that Like just kind of having this like explorer playful mindset of like I just got to try . I mean , I just didn't know , I'm done .
Yeah , I knew I didn't want to stay where I was , right . I didn't want to stay where I was and I want to show up as my best self for those I love . And I feel showing up where everything is a trigger for me is not fear the folks around me , right , and if you also fair to you , because if you're in a triggered state you're not feeling well , Exactly .
So I wanted to heal from that and remember I saw what stress and unhealed trauma , unaddressed trauma , did to my mother . I didn't want that for myself and that in itself is a therapy session , because normally you'd be like , oh , I want to be the kind of mom my mom was . I want to be the hard worker that my mom was .
So you use your mom as some kind of role model All my life it was how do I not be like my mom ? So that in itself was a few therapy sessions .
Well , yes , and this brings me . This could lead into another whole new episode of like . If you don't want to be like your mother and add to a lot , to quite a high percentage , I agree , I also do not want to be like my mother . It ultimately will come to the question of okay , how will you mother yourself ?
Yes , and I had to learn how to do that . There is there . As a side note , there is a blog on my website and the title is Got Money Problems . Let's talk about your mother .
Yeah , that should also be more prominently placed on your website .
Yeah , I will take any suggestions you have .
Yeah , or yeah , it's like thanks mom , thanks dad , yeah no . But then it again brings me to what you said before , and I think this is so beautiful and worth noting and circling back . We're now like joking and saying thanks mom , thanks dad .
But it's actually kind of like the relief what you said about you have to release the anger and come into forgiveness by realizing they did the best they could . And I had to go through that for my own set of parents too , where I was like okay , I know where they came from and they did so much and I'm thankful for that .
And then , but for me the hard stone was to swallow was like okay , if we're going to say everyone is like like they're trying the best they could , so everyone is trying the best they could , yes , that means now that's the real kicker . You are also doing the best you would . Yes .
And still we look back at Chen from last year , at Pamela from two years ago , and often crap on ourselves .
Yes , right , yeah , yeah , yeah . I just want to say something . You started to talk about your parents and we're talking about mothers , and I just felt the need to pull my crystal and hold it to my hands . What is this kind of is ?
it amnesty ? Yes , it is , yeah , oh yeah . What is the meaning of that ?
I do not know , I do not know , but I'll tell you this , you also have crystals and because I just like them .
They're pretty , yeah , but I have no question .
No , I actually one of my , so I intend to learn more about them in the new year , yeah , but I love having crystals around me . But you were talking we were talking about that mother energy and I just felt the need to pick it up and like it was soothing to me .
So , even after all these years , there is still obviously something in me that felt it needed soothing while we were talking about this , because I grabbed my crystal , yeah , and it's not so okay .
So I have to be fair . I do not pretend I am smarter than I am , although I'm pretty fucking smart . I just Googled random Google search , amethyst crystal meaning . Yeah , you know what came up ? Tell me Amethyst , apparently , is the best crystal for mothers .
No way , yeah , I'm like seriously , you can tell me about all the wo-wo things and you don't have to believe anything that yeah , wow , sometimes you cannot make this shit up , wow , and I have other crystals here and I mean it's a natural stress reliever . Hello , triana , it comes to mind that neutralizes negative energy . Wow .
That's why I'm holding it to my hand now .
Yeah , yeah , there you go . Seriously , you cannot make this up . So see , those are those things , those are those nudges , right , those are the things that can help us heal . And when you , whenever you have like a little nudge like this , go execute .
Yeah , whether it's in your business or holding it , holding a crystal , which is , yeah , just go execute on it what you say , my man , oh my God , I say follow your God .
I think a lot of women we have been taught to not follow that , not give in to it , not give in to our feminine powers . Listen , I believe our feminine power is powerful if we would just listen and dive into it . Right , of course , everything in balance , but in the you know the- .
That's what you say , because the spreadsheets and yeah , we have the thing right . Like , yeah , yeah , like my clients know they have to Google analytics data and they have to go . So I'm like , let me pull up your Google analytics data and then let me pull a tarot card , just listen .
Wherever we're at right , like that's , it's not this or that , let's just go like I don't know , I hate those dualities and like all the other , yeah , yeah , let's just go for , and we always go for , and I think if we can just lean in a little more to our feminine , our , you know , whatever who we feel we call to , I think , incorporating that with the
facts and the logic and the numbers , it can really take us places .
Yeah , that's really . That's a really lovely word , lovely sentiments to to also end our podcast sadly , because I feel like we could do . We could go for another hour . Yeah , I know we have stamina . Yeah , so tell us , like , where can people find you online ? Where do you hang out ? I know you host a money date . Do you want to tell me something about it ?
Yeah , it's the third Wednesday of every month , from one to two PM Eastern time . I'm in Canada , ottawa , canada . So it's every third Wednesday , one to two , and it's free . I do an event bright event , free event and it's usually on all my social media , or you just do a search for me , it will show up . So there's that and I invite everybody .
What do we do ? We have about the first 15 minutes where I do a mini lesson , just a mini lesson , and then we spend 30 minutes getting shit done . You know the bills you don't want to pay or the taxes you don't want to look at the taxes , whatever it is , we keep the cover on , we go on mute and we do all shit . Yeah , I like that .
I need a lot of co-working like that during the pandemic Right .
So it's similar to that , and then , at about 10 minutes to the hour , we wrap up and there's some accountability . Okay , tell us , what did you do ? What didn't you do ? I saw you on the phone while we should have been working , was going on with that type of thing when are you talking to your accountant ?
I hope you say yeah , I know .
So that's what I do the money day , the third Wednesday of every month , and I'm also I'm launching a group and it's what I call the prosperity circle , and it starts on January 10th . It's six months where we meet every other week and we go over my signature system . We cover , and it's called the seven pillars of money management .
So registration is now open for that . I don't just take anybody blindly . You need to book a call with me , yeah , application based . Yeah , yeah , you book a call with me . And one we need to see if we're a good fit . But two , I need to talk to you to figure out if you're ready for this .
Yeah , right , so if that's something you want to do , you can do that . But my website sorry , not but , and my website is my website is simple . It's sandalaco , not com , not ca , but co . I'm all hip , right , yes , yes , you're on the way .
We're going to link it in show notes as well . So , yes , that's amazing , thank you . Yeah , I love the money day . So much things , so much laughter . Oh my gosh , that's the . That's the right like . You come for the knowledge , you stay for the entertainment . There you go . And I have one more question for let you go , because I'm curious .
You always need new , new , new materials . What book are you currently reading ?
I , or audiobook , whatever like no , no , I love to read . I have my , my Kobo E reader and I am reading Yoga Bitch . Yoga Bitch . I'm now like on page five and it's this woman who is talking about her journey . Smoking and transcendence , I believe , is what I love it . Yeah , it's quite interesting . So it's Yoga Bitch . I recommend it .
Perfect . Thank you so much . Well , Pamela , what is it Absolute bless to have here . Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us . I love .
Thank you . Right back at you , girl , right back at you , thank you .