Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:00:00) - After suddenly becoming a single mom to three boys under the age of six, Heather Renninger took the scariest jump into entrepreneurship as a full time photographer and photography coach. Knowing she had to sink or sweat after ten years, she spilled a multi six figure business and has turned her lemons into sweet lemonade. Now she's on a mission to help other full time photographers make the move from $500 sessions to $5,000 sessions so they can live life on their own terms. Heather, welcome to the podcast. How are you today? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's such a pleasure. So for anyone who does, who's listening in today and who doesn't know you, can you please briefly walk us through your story like how you started, how you got like the header you are today? Like the crossroads, the the gossip, the hot tea, give it all, give back. I don't know how much time we have and how far are we going to go about. Well, think I mean keep getting to know more.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:01:01) - I love it. I love it. The chance, the story. I'm here for it. That's fantastic. Well, so the biggest pieces of my life in the story or more of my adult life. One thing from a childhood that really kind of began helped begin like tell the story of where I ended up and was from my dad. So my dad was killed in a car accident when I was in high school. And now I can look back and see all the traits and the quality of the characteristics that I have in him, even though I haven't. You know, I was 13 and had 13 years and that was it. But to look now and my mom and dad was like, Man, you've got so many great qualities of your dad that's so beautiful. I'm like, I do. And I'm like, And don't discount yourself, because there's a lot of great things of her that I have on me to to get me to where I'm at. And so, yeah, I bring that up because my a lot of the story of my life and I was a stay at home mom.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:01:57) - I've got three young. They were young at the time, three boys and a stay at home mom. And life turned upside down and I ended up getting a divorce from someone. You know that we marry, thinking that that was going to be our forever story. And it was not. There were things about him that as the further along we got that we realized this isn't good, it isn't healthy. I need to do it. We're separating now. We're having an affair. There are some other things, you know, just not working out. And that life fell apart. I crumbled. There is depression mean there's probably 18. The first 18 months I was hardly out of bed aside from when my boys were home. You know, I got them up, took them to school, came home. It was sleeping. It's all I could do to function. I just it was like a semi hit me right on right. And to see what I've grown and done now is so cool. And the thing that people you know, sometimes we'll say, you know, well, divorce or death, you know, talking about those things my mom has said she's like, Heather, my your dad dying was harder for me to see and to be to be a part of, to witness than watching you go through the divorce.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:03:03) - And I'm like, Really? Because man would love to have had dad here. And she said, Yeah, but and this could get me emotionally even thinking about she's like my she said, Your dad? I loved him to the day he died. And he loved me until the day that he died. And you didn't get that gift, Heather. You missed out on that gift, you know, And so, yes, there is lots of lemons in the mess of my my divorce. And those things help me become stronger to be able to create the business that I have and have three healthy boys that are now college age and living a great life. And to be able to go and travel and just, you know, it's it's a grand life. It really is. But that's right. Like it always sounds like a cheesy Pinterest quote, but it's kind of like there's always light and dark, right? And sometimes we kind of, like need the dark to to realize, hey, actually life is pretty awesome and we're doing great.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:03:56) - And like, not saying, well, I don't know, 20%, 24, like 24 hours every day, every single day of every week is fantastic. But like, the bottom line is right, there still things that were like. But the bottom line, like I'm curious, though, like how like I mean, I get that. So like, we're going back to your daughter. Three young boys. I only got one. I'm like, Hallelujah, he's up now. Now I'm like, oh, my God, I, I No, no, no, no. Three under the age of four. So I kept hopping for a while because you're, you're you're a saint. Superwoman merged in it to everything, dear Lord. Well, like, I mean, yeah, just boys. I don't know when they're three. I know now where they're called teenagers because. But it's also kind of cool because it's the age where they kind of, like, really start to show their own personalities and like, answer like, really have conversations with you.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:04:57) - They're not always conversations like we're already have a good. When I'm not what I have. But yeah, they're pretty. They're pretty brutally honest, aren't they? Oh yeah. Like the other day I remember getting bit off topic, but it's fine. Like the other day I was cutting apples for his snack and he was coming into the kitchen. He was looking at me. He was looking at the apples. He was looking at me. He said, Mama, yesterday the apple slices were prettier, never more even. I'm like, oh, like, like get, like, get, get, get lost. Seriously, Get lost. Like, go like. You could just be thankful that I'm actually cutting your apple slices still and food. But like you said it, it's such, like, like that's sweet little boy. You're like, gonna be mad at it. But I'm like, Right, Yeah, yeah. Totally innocent. Like, he was just stating. Yeah. In his mind, he's stating a fact.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:05:47) - Oh, yeah, of course. Whatever. He was right. He was right. We never were, like, wonky all over the place because I was just rushing it. I mean, that's what you get when you watch me. And. And of course, my mom's like, Well, my savage should have, like, okay, got it. But so like, yeah, let's go back to like, kind of like your, your depressed, like your dark phase and like, how, how did you kind of, like, pick yourself up and start started putting the pieces back together? Oh, yeah. I always had a great support system around me and then something that I never took for granted. I was very thankful for that from my mom, from other family, from friends, even from people that were they were like clients. They weren't there was like just getting to meet these people, right? There's clients in my life that I was just starting in this business and even they were there to support and encourage and, you know, push a little bit more, you know, and encourage you to do things.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:06:47) - And so that's one of the blessings with this business. When I started it, I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to do photography. I didn't know if it was funny. Like, yeah, they're like, What? No, I didn't want to. My job was a stay at home mom. That is the only title I wanted for the rest of my life. Yeah, okay, cool. Do you kind of photography because it pays the bills, right? So I'm like, okay, well I'll do something then. One of my friends, she's like, Yes, you need to do this. I'm like, okay. So I went out and took pictures $50 for the first session. And, you know, every time they come up in my Facebook memories, I'm like, Oh, wow. Oh, I'm glad that those are on And then right. But what I quickly found is that photography, thankfully other people knew. I mean, I've always loved taking pictures but never dreamed I could make it a business because the person that I chose to listen to for so many years of my adult life, I believe that I wasn't smart enough, good enough, capable enough.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:07:46) - Who am I to think I could run a business? Well, my mother. The ex-husband. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like I have all those feelings. So who am I to do this? Well, thankfully, someone else thought like, You need to do this. You got a gift, you got a talent in that. As I would start taking pictures, I could through the day, like when my kids were at school, would hardly get out of bed early on, but would be forced. I would have to leave the house. I would have to go take these stupid pictures and kind of like my feelings, right? I'm like these filters. So it's kind of like. Like, like little like rebel bitch. Like, Oh, I don't want to get out, but I've got to get the stupid pictures. No, no, I got to go do that. And that hour or half hour or whatever. Yeah, whatever time we were spending with them, by the time I was done, it filled me up so much like I could feel a little bit about that happiness coming back.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:08:35) - I could feel pieces of me that I didn't know had been gone. Yeah, and that's beautiful. It was a beautiful thing to be able to empower them, to have them have a great experience. But honestly, in those early days they were giving me a bigger gift than what I could have given them, regardless of what they would say. It was even more back to me. And so that was a huge piece, is just kind of just taking that step, taking one step, taking a baby step, crawling, just inching, you know, doing something and having that action. And that really did help. Yeah. Feel this. This is there's so much like beauty and wisdom in that, right? Like you sometimes when we think of like entrepreneurship and the start of it all like to know I mean, we're already, we're stop believing that we're not successes because we're smart. Um, and like, it's, it's really about the willingness to go slow and do baby steps and do things that maybe you don't want to do, right? Maybe it's, I don't know, maybe.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:09:30) - Yeah. No, you didn't want to go out of bed or you didn't want to charge only 50 bucks or whatever it is, right? Like you wanted to stay at home. It's just kind of like just inching and stretching that muscle. And especially what I feel when you're been told for so long that you're not good enough, that you don't have what it takes, blah, blah, blah, blah. You always like, you have to retrain. It's kind of like a muscle. You have to retrain yourself, believe again and be like, No, actually I did this job. Sites were happy they paid me. I can do this kind of like. Work your way up or work your way towards none up, but work your way towards whatever it is you want to do. Yeah, absolutely. Like I'm curious, was there like, like what's the, like early, like in your business, what was kind of like the biggest decision you've made in your business and why was it such a big deal? The first biggest decision was just saying, I'm a photographer, you know? Yeah, like really identifying with like, Hey, yeah.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:10:23) - I'm like. So. Yeah. Mm hmm. Oh, talk about imposter syndrome. Just coming from every direction. Like, who are you to tell you this about? Look, but no photographer. I mean, people don't even ask what I do, and. And I. It was a battle. No, I'm not really sure. I stay at home with my boys, I think. Pictures or. Yes, yes. Yep, yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so what happened that you kind of that you kind of like started owning. I'm a photographer. Yeah. I sent an email, so I sent an email. You know, this is what, 12 years ago. So sent an email to about 50 of my people that were, you know, friends and acquaintances that are around in the area. And I made a professional email that said, I'm starting a photography business. I am starting to charge, you know, doing all these things. I'm like the manager, photography, this, that and and announced it.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:11:16) - That seriously was a very scary thing and are listening to it now. It kind of makes me laugh that there could be so much fear around it, but I think that's where we get back to that whole taking small steps, just taking small action. If it's something that excites you, that lights you up, if you feel it's your passion or feel like something you're meant to do, just take little steps. Because that email alone was terrifying. I raced to the bathroom after I sent that email because I'm like, Oh my goodness. How long did the email stay in your draft folder before you hit send? Oh, no, no, it hit send it right away because I knew I might now never. And now it it was now or never. We are going and we're committing to it. And the response was great, right? I mean think so many times we can we can play in our play up in our minds very quickly. You know, all the negative oh, here's all the things that could go wrong.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:12:09) - Yeah right. And and exercises that really helped me is just write down. Okay, what what's the worst case scenario? Right? Because our brains are there. Our brain is that keep us safe, right? We want to. We want to be safe. Yeah. We touch something hot. It it's thinning neurons so they're let. No. Yeah. Don't touch that. Yeah. Don't do it. And if we don't determine what the best case scenario on worst case scenario, the things our mind will tell it will determine the worst. And it'll be like you're going to die. You're feeling scared. Gobble. Right. All right. That's certainly not going to happen with an email, but my feelings and emotions around it, it felt pretty darn close. But if you think, okay, what worse case scenario, I send this email. What happened? No, respond. What's worst case scenario? Someone says, No, they're not interested. Okay. Can I keep on going? Yes. Even if they say that I'm not going to die, what's best case scenario? Someone says yes.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:13:01) - Oh, if someone says yes, I get to go and do something that excites me. I get to create beautiful pictures and freeze a moment in time for people. I get to be able to do something else fun with my kids. I get to write and then you start looking at the pros and cons like, okay, just go, let's go, let's jump. And so that that's really helped me. But yeah, that was actually one of the scariest things I've done and I might choose to level up. Oh yeah. Like that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the beauty of being in business, the beauty and the curse. Right? Like it's always there always be hard moments. You're like, oh darn. That's really. No, I need some really kind of like that. Put my bigger pants on. Yeah, That's what I love about it though, is that when you when you have had those feelings and that email, that was scary. And the next time that I created something and offer an opportunity that was new to a client and this, this and when you get those yeses, the next time when you feel like you're reaching an obstacle, that's like, Oh, sure, like, I know we can't do it.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:13:58) - Look back, look at you. You've got proof that you're capable, smart enough, amazing and all these things because you've had all this. All right. And so always looking back, you know, is really great to be able to see that, to give you encouragement, to take that next step. Yes. You're touching on such an important point, right? Because I see so many clients as well who go like, okay, cool, I did that and they're kind of like rushing to the next thing, which is cool. But you always kind of like, gotta take a moment to celebrate your success, to really like anchor it in because that way you can draw from it again when you're like, Shit, I'm going to do I want to do something really scary. And I don't know. So you can be like, Hey, actually I remembered how good it felt like when I got the Yes to kind of like help you take the leap and be like, Ooh, yeah, okay.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:14:44) - But if you don't really take the time to anchor that, if you kind of like rush through it, always like the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, I don't know. I think it tends to get forgotten and be like, Oh yeah, and and we'll catch up with you eventually in some way. And let me tell you, because I've lived in both of them right there. I'm like, okay, go, go, go, go, go. And then other times it's like I am celebrating everything. It's new and exciting, all that. When I can celebrate, every step is more fun. And what you're saying, it anchors it in and it doesn't have to be because at one point I think, Oh, celebrate how long I celebrate. Is it going to get a massage or it going on a trip, you know, because me celebrate. I mean, you're celebrate. Let's go big. We're going to go on a trip over. Smile. Love that.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:15:27) - Yes. That's when we celebrate. We go big. Love it. Yes, I'm open. No, I know. So let's do it. And we can celebrate every day in the small thing. If you cross the your top three must do's off the list. Awesome. There is one time my coach was we on a call and she's like, okay, so how are you going to celebrate? You know, something that I had just completed, like, uh, and I turn on a YouTube video and we literally over zoom our dancing to cool in the game. And we're just sitting there. Yes, celebrate. We're going to celebrate and have a good time, right? Yeah. See, we're right now. Yes. Even love that that. Yeah. Even that small small doesn't. We have to like, detach ourselves from like, oh, like celebrating has to be something material. It does not. It does not. It can be any part. It can be anything from your self-care repertoire.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:16:17) - Um, that makes you feel good. Yeah. Doesn't have to be material at all. No, I have a diner belt, you know, a thing on my desk. And so when I accomplish something on my desk, dang it. I love that. It's like into Pops. When you get a big tip, they ring the bell. Yeah. That's awesome. Yep. That should do that till we got to ring a bell. Like. Yeah. Well done, Jennifer. I've got a freaking bell. Yeah, because when those are. When when we, like, attract and, like, ignite those great endorphins, those feel good. It's. It's going to say, Oh, okay, you're right. It's like your brain turning. Oh, okay. That was good. We want more. We'll find more, you know? And it just really helped me continue to celebrate and find all those things, keep me excited to go on to the next thing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:16:59) - Hey, And I kind of, like, want to circle back for like a quickly too, because I feel there are like some people who get it and some people who are like, Wow, why is that hard? Like when you said like, hardest thing was like sending out an email to like, your friends and family and extended friends lists and so on. The hard part, like some people would be like, Well, but why was it hard to send that to your friends and family? Like. Like what? Who? And and then other the other have like me. It was like, man, that's the hardest fucking thing in the world, right? And I remember when I started my business, like I'd rather put up Facebook ad than actually telling everyone in my network what I'm doing just because, like, I don't know, it felt safer. And I also did like the worst case, like what could happen, worst case scenario. And like, yeah, the worst thing is, is that they could book me, but then my mind is a devious one.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:17:53) - And she was like, Well, that's not actually the worst thing that can happen. The worst thing that could happen is like, I don't know, what was it at a time? It was like something along the lines of like, you know, they know they'll think you'll be like, you're a fraud. Or they think like, oh, why is she like, is she not successful? That she has to like, ring up family and friends, like all these kind of like, bullshit stories until I was like, okay, thank you, brain, but we're letting someone else, like, thrive now, for now. It's okay. Yeah. I think it's so interesting, right? Like that. The closer the people are like the closer people are to us, the harder it feels for some of us. And for others, it's exactly the opposite. They're like, Yeah, sure. Like they're so used to kind of like fall back on their network, on their communities and without any like, without any shame or a fear of shame or fear of being shamed or fear of being ridiculed or declared or like, I don't know, repercussions or whatever.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:18:49) - And then the other hand is just like, I rather like talk to a stranger on the street and actually ring up, ring up the people that worked with well and think some of that it's it's just it's taking practice. So yeah you say there's people out there that might not be like, oh, they've not been bothered by that email because that was like, all right, you mean there's people that don't think like that? And as I've grown my business and done these things and becoming more confident and just not even confident in my business, even just confident in owning who I am, that now I don't have a you know, now those things aren't scary. Like I can go to my networking group and tell them about something, and I was telling one of them about something that I've done online and like building these funnels and all stuff like this stuff is like so overwhelming yet it's so exciting. There's these cool things. And like I said, Tom, they're like, I want to hire you. I want you to teach me.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:19:42) - And I'm like, okay, absolutely. Had I ever taught anyone before? No. But then my excitement about it, Yeah. Was contagious lit up and in the belief. Yeah. And they're like, yes, let's do it. And so now I have something new that I'm teaching and coaching now. Ten years ago, I would have probably even five years ago would be like, Oh, cool, Well, so I can send you some names of people that I think could could help you. And in sheepishly kind of turned my back away like it was good to see you. See you at the next meeting. Right. And now I'm like, Awesome. Let's do this. I want to help you grow, too, you know? And. And I think it just I just am excited about life again. I'm excited about what I'm doing with my time and how I can spend my time because I'm priced right to be able to create great opportunities for the people and I'm working with, be able to put money in my account to be able to go and take my kids on amazing trips, right? My life, like you said, there's light and dark.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:20:41) - Is there always dark? Absolutely. And I am loving all the light. And when we can share that and have that enthusiasm, it attracts more like that. So if you're if listeners would be feeling like, gosh, you know, just everything around me is just so negative and it's, you know, there's just no no one that's positive about things and feels like they're all thinking about the worst. I would challenge and think about how they're showing up because energies match energy, and if they really want to have something positive, they want more in life. We get to believe it. We get to show up in Elevate and increase our frequencies because happy people, abundance, people, they want to be around other people like that. And so, you know, we all have downtimes. We all have. Yeah, we're feeling bad, depressed. So I'm not saying that I'm not happy every month or anything like that, but I mean, I always like talk. I always kind of like also see it like that.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:21:34) - Like if you're going through something, even if it's something, something I don't know, not really like life or death, right? Like, I don't know. You said you want to start running. Okay, fair enough. We'll never be me. But anyway, like, that's not good. You know, even saying it came to mind, I'm like, Wait, why is that? Like, what is my uncle? Just want to tell me that? Shut up, Shut up. But like, so if you want to start praying and the probably the first couple of times will be hard as fuck and you're not really liking it and I really want to do it. But like you can either run and mope while you run and like curse and hate your life or be actually like, you know, I'm just going to see just going to run. Just got to focus on like my body and my muscles and breathing and see how I feel, right? Like, you don't have to be all right not running while you run.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:22:24) - You just like, okay, if I can go to positive, I can go into neutral. And neutral is just be can just see and observe that. I don't know. It's getting harder to breathe, getting easier to breathe. I don't know what is the road doing ahead of me? How our muscles feeling. I'm tired. That's neutral or like conscious. And then I think like, okay, like if you curse yourself while running, will it make it easier? Right? Like will it will ultimately like. Nope, not at all. No. I mean, there's, there are times when cursing something or someone does help is very therapeutic. But like, I don't know, I'm always thinking like, it's not going to help you if you just keep on seeing, like, I don't know, being a negative, Nancy, if you want to put it like that and just like, you know, maybe try something new. And if you can be like sunshine. Susan I'm just making shit up now.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:23:16) - But then I like sunshine cuz that it's sunshine. Susan Then just go into like neutral mode and just be an observer without good bad feeling or whatever. Yeah. And I don't know about you, but when I can then shift into that neutral that then it's so much easier to bind the bind the ways to be even the sunshine. Susan And even silver. So yeah, in my, in my attempts, you know, when I'd be like, I think I'm going to start running, which I have a couple of times in my life and I easily be like, This is the dumbest thing. Why did I decide to do this? This hurt, you know, all that, right? So then we shift neutral. All right. I'm just so glad that my body is moving, you know, and getting going. And then I would set small career and also shift into gratitude and be like, hey, absolutely. Like, okay. I don't know. I could still pay. Who knew that my body can still run that long even if it's five like 100 yards doesn't matter.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:24:08) - Yes. Oh no, I would I would set goals of running to the next stop sign or I'm going to get to three nail boxes. Awesome. I just ran three mailboxes, man. I didn't know my legs could even move that fast, you know, or whatever. Like, yeah, just kind of becomes so. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's, that's the thing. But that's, that's the key word, right? Like gamification, You and I feel that's also like one of the key success rules or key success mindsets in business. Right? You have to see it as a game and not in the sense of like, oh, I'm not attached, I don't like, but in a sense of like curiosity and imagination and be like, you know, let's just see what happens. Let's have some fun. Let's just see where it is goes. And, and yes, we are all high achievers or current high achievers, so we want to win. But like. There is no winning.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:25:01) - But the the business itself, the journey itself. Right. There is no end goal until unless it's literally the end, which we don't we don't want to go there yet. We still have things to do. We still have a lot of journey to. Yeah, we still have fun things to do. So yeah, I don't know. I feel it's always kind of like really interesting that these conversations and Yeah, well, and I love that you say like approaching it with curiosity because think that's I love that because there are things like you know when that email that I sent that seem so scary, well, could I have switched even just then? Like, is this scary? Or maybe I'm a man Like, you know what? This is going to be fun to see how many people respond, right? Yeah. Already. Just saying that sure feels a whole lot better. Like, oh, goodness, I'm so scared. This is so serious. And this email. What if. Wow, this can be fun.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:25:46) - Let's see how many people encourage me. Let's see how many people. Congratulation. Yeah, let's see if how many are interested in booking a session. Right? Yeah. Now it's like, oh, now this is fun. It's curious. We want to do it. Whatever the results are, the results are. But we're curious to know. Yeah, yeah. But like. And it applies to everything, right? Like, let's say you, you wrote one of those Instagram posts that you're, like, really proud of because they were so great and like, I don't know, you got like, three likes, you know, like, like what you could do is kind of like, you could, like, be like, Yeah, like. Or you could just say, Okay, I really liked his post. Okay? Like, is there. What can I do? What do I need to change? Maybe I have to write like a better, like more catching headline to post or I need a different visual or it needs to be real or whatever and just kind of like come from like curious or don't know.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:26:37) - You can also approach it in like a curiosity, adventure, discovery, scientific kind of way and just be like, Oh, okay, just didn't work. How can I make it work? Yeah, I'm gonna try something else. Or an offer. Okay. That offer didn't fly. Maybe it needs a different title or maybe it needs another price point. Or maybe the messaging was wrong. Like just trying. Trying out different things and in neutral mode without your brain coming in with all these stories of you're not good enough. Or maybe. Maybe, yes, absolutely. So like trying different things and stuff like tell me tell me about a time in your business where you're like, truly fucked up. Do you have one mistake where like, well, I lost I lost images from a session, so I see. I hope it wasn't the winning. No, thank goodness. And honestly, for the longest time, I never wanted to do weddings because I'm like, What? It like. That was my biggest story because like, you can't recreate that day so good that I'm so good that I would be like, I would go completely nuts and have like, I don't know, four different backup, like batteries, whatever.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:27:38) - Like, Yeah. Yep. When we, when we shot weddings because we do some destination weddings too. So we shot one in Mexico. We took our, we bought new hard drives and before we left Mexico, we had we were on the same plane myself with my second shooter. But then we also were prepared to send hard drives home via the mail. But because of everything down there, we weren't able to. So we sent it with another family member that was on a different plane. So that way we're like, just in case if we die, we don't. I don't make it. If we die, you're still going to have your memories, by golly. So, yeah, yeah, we're preparing. That's that's my level of commitment to. I get it. Okay. But what was the, like, the biggest? So you you kind of. So did that. Yeah. You lost the pictures of possession. I lost them. And and I was just thick like how and, and thankfully, they were just so gracious, you know, I offered to do a reshoot.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:28:36) - We came up with them like, I will do, you know, whatever we can to make this right. And so we went ahead and we did another session. They were completely like, It's fine, no big deal. Like, it's not I appreciate your compassion with this and it's not okay. And we'll be taking just to make sure that we do, you know so now yeah yeah. New processes in place so so it's like that's that was a really awful thing that happened and I hated it so bad. And now what do we do right now? What. Okay, what what is like, the hidden learning in that so we can take something good out of this? Mm Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And so now there's new systems in place that they come from. They get downloaded, they say on a card and we stay in the storage thing they have filed named and they don't come up with that until I actually deliver it. Right. So we figured anything out. It probably would have taken a little bit longer before I decided to do that.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:29:23) - But that that happened. And so now we have a better system. Yeah. And and they're probably also people who say like, oh, that's way too much. You can just upload it to a cloud, whatever. Like, you know, whatever makes you sleep at night. Like, right, It's your, it's your, it kind of gets your affect, your business, whatever helps to sleep at night. Like that's not going to drive you insane at the same time. Yeah. Like how, how do you like, measure like progress and success now or has it has it shifted when you don't know start mean when you start? Obviously it has shifted when you were a stay at home mom and. Out idea of your own business, I suppose. But during your time, during your 12 years now has like how you define success or or making progress in your business. Has that shifted? Yeah, because for like the first six years, I didn't I didn't define any success. Like I was literally just kind of going through motions.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:30:17) - Okay. I am spending about ten years in court, so there was a lot of mental energy that was just, Oh, wow. Yeah, the first many, many years. It's like, well, whoever comes my way and once we take pictures, awesome, you know, made some money. Awesome. Wasn't tracking it. I started tracking it and that's when things changed. And so it was understanding what your cost of doing business was, which which was over five years. And before I did that and then I realized I really wasn't making money. So let's change that, right? So you're earning money while you take like you were losing money when you were taking photos or. Yeah, by the time I was done, they might as well, I might as well been paying them to go out and do it, you know, It's like there's lots of costs. That's the I could have flipped burgers. I could have flipped burgers that, you know, like for better than that, right? So I'm like, oh, okay.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:31:04) - But in most of my adult life, I didn't handle the finances. I didn't know any of those things. I just, you know, I didn't have that learning experience. And so at 35, I now I'm trying to figure out where's our insurance? How much is it? Who do I pay? Like the very basics, and then consider business. What's that? Okay, So then I finally figured out like, yeah, I remember even audibly as I put all the stuff together, audibly saying out loud and like, Oh, that's why photographers charge $75 for a eight by ten print, right? Because like, oh yeah, there's a lot more to it. I don't get to keep that $400 that they paid me, far from it. And so yeah, and then tracking and yeah, having my having my goals. What is my goal for the year? Breaking it down into monthly goals. All right. What does that look like if my monthly goal is $50,000, what, how many sessions I do? If my goal is $500, what do I need to bring in? Right.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:32:07) - So it's it's the things trying to break it down and make it manageable because sometimes when you're looking at big numbers, I never thought I would be able to generate $100,000 in business. That seemed like such big dreaming when I was, you know, making $10,000. Well, what is $100,000 look like? Divide it by 12. Now, what does that look like per month? Okay. How many sessions? What kind of. Yeah, like really bringing in that. Yeah. So if I charge, you know, $3,000 on three sessions a month, that's my charge. So if you are in need a whole lot of core sessions. Yeah. I'm not doing anything. I'm not sleeping. I'm not taking my kids anywhere because we don't have any time. So once we get that, now, there's that excitement that backs it up and it's like, okay, this is the team will do well, I can do this. And then my excitement, you know, just it relates and I'm able to share it with other people and then I'm getting those bookings.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:32:58) - So I'm curious. That's probably like really interesting for anyone listening in who is a service provider in their very early or earlier years, because I mean, you're a photographer, creative service provider, I mean, come from brands and design also loads of creative space. Yeah. And I know I have several creatives mostly work with service creative service providers because we're awesome. We have vision, we have like. Um. Yeah, we do. Yeah, we're good. We're. We're. We're awesome. So. But we always kind of, like, have hard fake pricing. I feel right because, a, we have that voice in our heads of like, Oh, my grandma has a camera too. She can also take the wedding pictures. Sure, you go do that, right? Like, I mean, we know we're not like, Yeah, okay, sure. Let grandma do that. And then we'll say like. Right, Like mean every time I hear now saying something like, Oh, I'm just going to get like a logo designer from, from like Upwork and like you do that, you go, you like whatever.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:33:59) - Yeah. And then more often than not they come back like three months later, be like, and can you please fix this? I'm like, No, sorry. Cannot you finally be happy to start from scratch? Yeah, exactly. Sorry about like the 50 bucks you lost it on. Um, but like. But how do we go about, like, how did you go about this? Right? Like, how? Like, how to actually get a pricing as a creative service provider that is allowing you to live the life you want? Sure. How did you go about that? Because I feel this is really important information for someone who or important mind flips for someone who's early in their journey versus to you where you're like your veteran. Yeah. Have you heard of the book Profit First? Yes. Yes, I have it in. I have in my bookshelf. It's it has a lot of like the core concept. I love it. I couldn't apply all of it because like our Europe system is different than the US system.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:35:00) - But the core, the core, the core thing of like putting everything into buckets and things. Yes. Love it. Yes. Yeah. That that was the game changer for me was because when you can see. Okay so. Oh it's so exciting. I got $500 for that session. Awesome. When you immediately which not immediately so but I was early on doing it after every session because they might have been sporadic sessions right. Well now it's twice a month that you pull the money out and put it into all these buckets. So all the money goes into one income account that you're checking account $500 for the session, 3000 for another. All that's in there, it's like, oh, had a $10,000 a month. Awesome. Okay, well, now let's divide it right? And now we divide out the tax. Yeah. Portion of that and retirement bucket and like the health care bucket and like. Yeah and that actually took some bucket. No And now I'm like oh here's the what I really earned the bucket.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:35:57) - I'm like, okay, well cool. I want more than that now you know. Love it. Yeah. Love this for me. Yeah, yeah. And that all of my students that I work with, that's what we started. The very base of the ground. One of setting these things up, getting it ready because it does. It shifted. That was a huge game changer for me in my business and how I treated things of like, okay, no, actually want to have a real business, something sustainable that I can do full time forever. Yeah, then that's what I want to be able to do. I want to be able to generate money. So that really helped me with that mindset of, oh, things like shifting from a I think sometimes, at least for me, it was like I would view it as a client's perspective. Like, you know, like what we're talking about with the family. Are you crazy? $500 just for pictures to shoot an hour must be nine days.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:36:42) - I want to be a photographer. I should go get a camera. Right. So those are things that would kind of be in my head. But when you look at it, those are just facts on the paper. Now, there yeah, you have you have prep work, you have like afterward, like where you edit, you have post-production like in. Yeah, yeah. Do you take all those hours and then divide it up just not, not with the $500 because you get to divide those hours up based on your little, your one bucket of $170 and now all of a sudden it's like, oh, that's a lot of work for only $150. Yeah, I know. I'm worth more. And so those are the things that really helped me understand, like, yep, game on. We're switching this and we're leveling up. Yeah. And that's like such a universal truth, right? Like you always have to face what it like, whether that's your finances or it's your I don't know you want to improve your website.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:37:31) - You gotta first look like what is what is working and what is like and what is not. If you start with like having a review or like an audit, like what is working, what is not working. And so I feel like, yeah, that's it goes for your finances to you where you're like, Oh, actually, okay, so this is it. This is what it is. And then I feel like the important part is coming to like, again, be in the neutral state about it. These are just the numbers. They're not good or bad. They don't say anything about you. It's just what are you what is your brain? But what is what are parts that you're telling or make these numbers mean? What are the stories that are playing right? Like, oh, how and who are you to charge women? Yes, not the numbers, but the numbers. That's kind of like your you're not a part of your narrative of your story. Yeah. And that's where there's I've done a lot of work over the years of just shifting those narratives.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:38:21) - Right? Oh, it's you're right. It's like, Oh, yeah, who am I to. Well. You know, what am I not to, you know? So that's kind of like, you know, who am I to do that? Well, going out to let's go, you know, let's figure out how we can still support and serve the client, my clients, in a way the supports and serves my family and the things that we want to do in the dreams. And I like the neutral concept because it is it's it removes any guilt and shame looking at the stuff because, you know, you can look at those items like, oh my goodness, such an idiot. How did I not I didn't understand that. You know, like you can go that route. Yes. Or my favorite road. Oh, I should have known. I should. I can hit something. Sorry. No work. Okay. Sorry. I have some mic issues. My editor really will cut these back.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:39:05) - And again. Yeah. Okay. I got a neat kind of like a new egg, but it seems so. It seems weird. I don't know. The cable already is wonky, so thanks for that, sugar Louis yeti. Anyway, Lily, we'll cut this out. Um, or we'll leave it in just for, like, bonnabel. I don't care. Thanks, Lily. Yeah, thanks, Lily. Or we leave it in. It's up to you, Lily. Um, no. So what was it you. What was your favorite? Yeah, my favorite. My favorite root root of, like, trashy self-talk is You should have known better. Oh, yes. Would say should equal shame. So just take that should out of your vocabulary. Oh, God, yes. Like, yeah, like this just should as fast as. Yeah. Anyway, don't, don't shut on, don't shut on yourself. Shut it yourself. Oh I love this. Yeah. I want to have this on a coffee bar.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:39:55) - Don't shoot on yourself now. Which is so true, right. Like it's all those. Oh, I should have known better. I should have seen it coming. I should be further ahead than I am. Whoa, whoa. It's all kind of like based on some kind of comparison of you, of. Of where you are now between, I don't know, some idealistic version of whatever. It's like there's no winning. There's no winning this game. No, no. We we win when we give ourselves grace. This is very true. Like I'm curious. Like, I'm glad you touched upon like, you did a lot of work and the like. Let's also call it healing as opposed to to stay in business. Right. And what was like what were the biggest stories that you were like, Oh, I, I don't know why I keep why I kept that like, keep on playing like. Like what? I don't know. Everyone. I feel like everyone who is in entrepreneurship A is not expecting that they have to deal with so much personal shit and like heal so much personal shit and like, what was like, what of the what of the shits you had to heal yourself from to be like, do you have like a thriving business? Really? It was, believe me, myself, uh, was able.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:41:06) - Yeah. That I was smart enough to do it. Um, there were a lot of opportunities growing when I was young that it was like me and the world, and I wish I can do it all. And at some point, that shifted to just to Mom. What what can a mom do? You know, I'm not smart enough. I'm not capable either. And I was always taken care of in our marriage and wonderfully and, you know, for a financial standpoint. Right. Yeah. So a lot of the lessons that people would learn in their young adult lives about money, about running things. Right. I didn't. And so it was easy for me to kind of wallow in that of who am I to think that I could do that and really just and that's where the action, you know, when we take action, action breeds confidence. And for me, it was those very small action to start with because even those small ones felt very overwhelming. You very, really, really, really small.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:42:02) - It's yeah. Otherwise you you will not a you will either do it at all or you will push through, um, like that push energy that will only sustain you for like, I don't know, a week, a month, whatever. And then you can like burn out. Yeah. And it's. Oh, it's so interesting, right? Like whenever, like, I mean all of my guests on the podcast so far have been have been women or have grown up or identified themselves as women. And it's so funny, right? Like we're getting told this thing of like or you're just a mom, right? And I mean, we're getting it told or prepared so much that we started to actually believe in ourselves like, Oh man, if I could shift this narrative of like, God, you give given your body has given birth to three human like head has grown three human beings, this is like fucking amazing. And you're like three under four. It's like you're like, as I said, you're like, cross between like a saint and like, superwoman.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:42:59) - Like, it's. It's insane, right? Like, then still, we're like, Oh, I'm just the mom. I haven't done anything that's like that is perceived as a success and like, the real world outside of my home, blah, blah. And like, oh, I so hated, like, I'm like, so fucking done. Well, and, and as you say that though, I'm like, I'm reliving and thinking about those times when I was. Just a mom. Yeah. And they fill me with such joy. And I think sometimes that's where we can kind of just step back and be like, What is this success for you? Yeah, if it is financial success, it is, you know, wanting to go, whatever that is, the joy in it. Yeah. When I was just a mom, I'm like, Those are some of my happiest memories of the kids doing these fun little things and do it. Setting up concession stands where you'd had movie nights and I'd have snacks and how much they cost and I'd give all the kids coins and they'd have to pay me for the snacks.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:43:55) - And, you know, I'm like, I loved all of that. I loved it all. And so got a call for that finding the joy. And yes, absolutely. I guess some other words if you travel. One other thing that we did with their kids is that we were on long road trips. I took a piece of masking tape from the back of the car to the front of the car, our van. And then I've made lines for every cross state line. And then I had a little matchbox car that I velcroed to the top of our car and every to keep moving it. So when it was like, Are we there yet? I'd be like, Look, this is where we are. Oh, that's cool. It was my God, We'd celebrate. We'd celebrate with a snack or a little dollar tree toy at every line when we are going somewhere. So yeah, like, yeah, those things were fun to me. They were. They were so fun to me. And now in that moment when I transitioned and they mean I can't do this, I can't run a business because I was learning these things about finances and learning, you know, what is compound interest? How do you say, what is that? You know, I'm sure you put aside for taxes, all this stuff.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:44:59) - I would kind of want to run those negative narratives and like, can't believe, can't believe I'm 35 and starting over and I don't even know how to do any of this. I said, No, I should I should have known this. They were in their self. I absolutely was. And you know what? What switched is? I'm like, this is so cool because I'm learning at a very beginner level so late, so late and like 35, I'm like, I get to teach my kids, I get to bring them along on this journey and share the excitement because it's new and exciting to me that I get to learn it. I don't know if I would have learned that 20 how easily accessible or how I would have translated it to my kids, right? We don't know. But I do know I'm doing a heck of a lot with them now because I'm learning at this point in my journey and yeah. And encouraging them doing that. Oh, right. Like, absolutely. I'm like, be an entrepreneur.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:45:52) - What do you want to do? What excites you? Let's find something. My youngest, we've gone through three different things that he's been interested in. I'm like, okay, you want to do this? All right, let's open up an Instagram account then. Here? Yeah. What do you need to do? What What tools you need. Let's do it. I'm encouraging it now. I'm very excited when he finds the thing that really lights him up that he wants to stick with. We have found that yet. But he's working through it, right? I'm like, This is great practice. And he's like, okay, mom. So yeah. So I need $1,000 computer. I need this. I need that. Good. So I said, No, you don't because you don't have any resources. So you're, you know, and like explaining these things like it. So and the mom, I couldn't be more proud from a in the financial aspect of things when talking to the kids because they they bring their paychecks to me they've been working since they were 12.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:46:36) - And as they bring them to me, they're now in the habit. I say, Hey, all right, here's your check. They're like, okay. I said, Well, this is $120. What do you want to do with it? And they they'll say, I want 50 and spending money. I want 50 and long term and I want 20 and short term. Like you're going to get this whatever legacy their dad and I are able to leave for them, they're going to be wise with it. They're going to be able to make more fruitful and multiply it to serve more, to impact more, to be able to whatever their mission is in life and how they want to help and serve and give back to the community. They're going to have even more to do it because we're going to do things. Yes, absolutely. So right. Where they they they don't do as we say. They do us. We do. Right. Like the thing. And it means sometimes that's the way to say.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:47:23) - But yeah, I love that. And and like I don't know we're having a similar thing with like the pocket money. It's like, okay, you have like, I don't know, you get five bucks, so one buck, one dollars for you, one dollars for like for the bank savings account. $1 is like for the holiday fun, holiday, fun money. And like, $1 is for maturity. So then you can bring an hour every time of every year. But for Christmas, you can like, pick out and give them the money to kind of like know, okay, this is what's kind of requested. But like, yeah, circling, circling back on, on, on what you said would like some of your happiest memories were when also like when you look back on when you were a mom like the just the mom and feel that's such a good thought to close our conversation I want to circle back to that. It doesn't matter, right? Like how outside how everyone on your on your outside define success, right? Like if you want to be a stay at home mom and find joy in that, then please be.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:48:24) - Stay at home mom if you want to. If you find joy in corporate and please stay in corporate, don't. Don't become an entrepreneur. Right. Like, thank you. It's not for everybody. It's not for the sake, Art. Oh, God, no. But. Right. Like, it doesn't matter, right? Like if. If you know you're good at this, it lights you up. You want to do this and go be it, regardless of whatever kind of weird, arbitrary success parameters are placed in something screwed up. Oh, Heather, it was such a it was such a blessing to have you here. Honestly. Good podcast. I loved it. Oh, I feel like we could do another hour, but we probably did the other time. So like, let us know where people can find you online, where you hang out. Is it Instagram as a post? Photographers hang out on Instagram? Yep, Instagram and Facebook. Google where I'm at for that. I specialize in high school seniors, so a lot on Instagram.
Jennifer Walter & Heather Wanninger (00:49:23) - My on Instagram at Sweet Lemonade photo and yep and Facebook is sweet lemonade photography. And then for my coaching side where I help photographers grow their businesses, I've got a group called Freedom for Photographers and that's on Facebook as well. And perfect. Then there's even the website. So sweet Lemonade photography that will do. You'll hit everything there because it's got my seniors, my corporate and also a link to all the coaching things that I've got going on to love it. Okay, so please check out Heather. Heather, think again. Thank you so much for being with me on a single podcast. It was a blast. Absolutely. I enjoyed it. Thank you so much.