How to Establish Healthy Boundaries: Practical Insights with Dr. Randie Schacter

So I transitioned from being a psychologist that was my original goal into doing medicine as well , because Madison gave me more tools so I could listen and then I can also do therapy , but I can also do medication management , and that's where Madison came in . And then , as I practiced medicine , new avenues came up . I worked in a hospital for a while .

Over time , autonomy became less of an opportunity and I liked what I made , so I opened up a private practice and I treated primarily children , adolescents , and then they started to grow up and I started to grow , and then it became women and children .

And then I decided that I love treating women and I began to love treating a group of women in particular which were women professionals , women physicians in the healthcare community , and burnout and stress became a huge impact that the medical field transitioned into us working smarter , not harder , which really meant we worked harder and smarter .

Yet the number of patients increased . So who's Especially ? now still in a pandemic , especially here , children hospitals are bad and so bad , self-predecentially , I left corporate medicine and opened up a private practice so that I could maintain the boundaries that I felt were good for me and good for my patients .

And then eventually I felt like , as I watched some of my colleagues implode or on the verge of imploding , I felt like it made sense to help apply , or teach them how to apply some of those skills .

And so I opened up a second business that helps them learn how to find de-stress techniques , how to create some kind of balance for their life , because we've got one and if we don't figure out how to enjoy it and live it and be it , then you're kind of spending it working , sleeping and going through the motions , and that just seems kind of lame .

I lost your volume . Where did you go ? Is it me ? Did I do it ? No , I have sound Now my buck . Video select speaker . Pro speaker it's all good , I don't know what happened . It says I'm making noise . It says it's recording . It just disappeared . Can you hear me ? Yes , oh , now I hear you . Can you hear me ?

Those are the kind of balances . So it's like meaning joy , sleep , self-care , nutrition . There are basic needs , there are purposeful needs , there are joyful needs , there are work needs , intellectual needs . Those all kind of need to be balanced in some way . And sure , it's nice to go get your nails done , but that's not really self-care .

That's a little bit groovy in diligence . But self-care is kind of making sure that you're feeling a sense of purpose , a sense of grace , a sense of social and personal , that you're taking care of your body in some way , and no one's perfect at all of that stuff .

I think , yes , it can be self-care , but we tend to have a super let's call it superficial idea of self-care that's tied to consumerism , whereas to kind of almost deflect of what real self-care means in terms of like , yes , we have sleeping enough , but that's the easier , I'd say . The healthy types of self-care are easier . Right , okay , food , sleep , water .

So they're really denying themselves self-care and somehow or other they should basically tell their nurse assistant I need you to make me take a break , because I'm not going to do it for myself , like that would be a bad thing that they need to . If they can't create it for themselves , then they need to ask for help .

Meanwhile , they're more than capable of saying it for someone else , right ? So they would be easy to tell someone I will advocate for you have to drink their water .

I'm not good at advocating for myself , so sometimes you tell them make believe you're somebody else , talk to yourself as if you're somebody else and give yourself permission , because otherwise they're not themselves permission , right ? So sometimes we have to trick ourselves .

I love what you said about boundaries and I feel that's such an important part of self-care that's often forgotten , like the social aspect of self-care boundaries , having a support system that you can actually go ask for help , right .

Community , like COVID showed this , where we're getting more isolated , and really those social aspects of self-care have to be taken care of before we can say , oh , I'm getting my nails done as part of self-care , right , because we're actually having bigger fish to fry first . Correct , so is boundary , is boundaries one of those big fishes ?

to so . One of the things that is often understood with saying with boundaries is being able to know when to say no to something and what it means to say no . So if you will read something , you want to know that when you think about it later , it's something that you'll actually want to do . And saying no doesn't always mean that it's a bad thing .

It might actually be a great thing for you or the person that you're saying no to , right . So if you say yes to something you don't really want to do it , are you going to do a bad job ? Are you going to flake it the last minute ? Are you going to disappoint the person that you're saying yes to because you're not all in ?

Maybe they get somebody else better who really wants to do it ? There could be better .

You might be thinking like , okay , why am I talking to a psychiatrist , like a medicine practitioner , like what's kind of like the link , and I was Okay , all right , I'm so impressed , when we talk before our call , what you said about how you do your client intake management that you not necessarily look at like okay , I have like 53 slots so I take 50 people

, but you're actually not going capacity-wise , but you're going energy-wise , right , or different capacity-wise . Do you want to tell us like kind of like the underlying principle of this , how you're managing how many clients you can take on ?

And so for me , the number of people that I would bring in when I have open space , my space opens based on the concept that my patients are healthier and I have emotional capacity to bring on new people , or because at the beginning of fall my college students have moved on and they're no longer living in the states that I'm licensed to practice , so I have

open space . So when I open up my space , it's not so much the number of people slants that I have when I start getting new patients in , depending on how critical their level of illness is or how much energy it takes for me to process what's going on with them , whether they're very sick or very in need of my time .

So sometimes I can see a patient three times and we get them on a medication regimen and they're good , and I only see them every three months . Sometimes I need to see them every week for several months until we get them where they need to be . So each person is going to be different , and sometimes it's just the emotional toll that they take .

I take them home with me and it's hard for me to sleep . I'm trying to figure out how to help them and that eat tells me to say okay , I'm closing down a little bit and I'm not adding anyone else , because if I'm not sleeping , then I can't take care of the rest of the people that I'm supposed to be helping .

I need to pull back a little and that works , because if I don't take care of myself , then I can't take care of everybody else .

So there's this line that once I get close to this space that , okay , I am carrying a burden and the burden is heavy , I need process it and digest it before I can bring more on , and so I think that would happen with any client . You have a huge client that you feel like is overwhelming and they're asking a lot and you're not sure how to please them .

You need to say to yourself okay , how do I figure out how to wrap my head around this person and their knee and so on before I add another person , because if I disappoint this person , what's happening to my ratings when I'm looking at my social media and they're upset with me Happen to the next guy . I don't know . I assume that's similar , right , yeah ?

How many people should be whatever ? It's like you have to ask yourself how many people can you build a satisfying experience for and you have the capacity to support in that container . Like I mean , I know with the work I do like brand strategy , it's like I get fully immersed in whatever strategy component I'm on .

So I know I cannot take on one on one clients every week Like it's not possible , it's like no . So you have to be really honest with yourself , Like okay , what is really my capacity and what can I take on , and not just be like oh , I got another sign up , Might as well , have it here , what great money .

And be more mindful of really protecting yourself as well as the experience of the quality of the people in right and especially in your case , the quality of care , which is great . I mean I always said that before .

I'm always like , kind of like , when my clients are like super scared of like doing something , I'm like you know , if you don't post it on Instagram , no one's gonna die , so we cannot use this in your case . But it's really now how to navigate .

I kind of like have two main questions for you , and I was starting off with one , and you said , like you're taking clients home with you mentally right , like you think about okay , how can I improve this person ? How can I improve their life quality ? How can I help them ?

How can I and I always , like I had conversations similar where I had like coaches tell me like , oh , kind of like , you have to like like bottle that in the container and leave it when you leave your office , right , like kind of like boundary and blah , blah , blah , and like , yeah , sure , it can work for people , for some people , but I don't know ,

sometimes , when I wash my hair , I have like a brilliant idea and I'm like , oh , okay , it's not , it's more fluid , sure , but still , how do we protect our own energy while we

do ? This concept of not leaving everything at the door ?

So putting the shoes on can physically create that ambiance at a penelope and work mode . Yeah , you can visually imagine closing one door and opening another door when you walk into that little foam office . But having strokes of genius when you're in a shower isn't necessarily invading your personal life . It's a stroke of genius . Have at it , right , that's awesome .

Figure out , write it down when you get out of the shower and remind yourself that you'll get to it tomorrow .

You need to know that there are other people in the community , within your world or field that could be supportive , that get it , understand it , and I think in most worlds there's this belief that there's this competition If I share with someone , then they're going to take them , they'll butt in use it and gave my clients away from under me or whatever .

But we should , for me , I believe , come from a place of abundance , that wherever there is some , there is more . And if we can network and share our strengths and our weaknesses and our vulnerabilities and communicate , then we can also become stronger . So in any industry there should be a healthy level of competition , but a huge level of collaboration .

If you can build each other up together and open each other's networks to other people , then you're making it better .

away and like , okay , Checking out Perfect , exactly , yeah , like little things like that . And I never really thought about this way , like it's something that I don't know came natural , it built up naturally like this , but never thought it as that Like , but that's actually what I'm doing . So thank you so much for highlighting that .

And how do we , how do we go about those ? Maybe those clients who are very like every now and then , let me curious if you feel the same , but I , every now and then I have clients .

I generally love all my clients Like I otherwise I probably would not work with them if I feel they're not great humans and every now and then I'm like really getting close with someone , kind of like let's meet for drinks , go vacation together , like all the things I'm up for , and I love them dearly and I have to be very , very mindful that they're not it's

not their intention , but I'm kind of like letting them become little energy vampires and they're not doing it Like it's not their intention , but it's just I'm using kind of like way too much energy on them . Then what is good for me ?

So like , for example , we today , this evening time , tamed you and I right , I will be taking my staff out for our annual holiday party oh lovely , there will be no business discussion , there will be no shop talk , yes , social . And so that boundary gets set right .

So if you're developing a friendship with a client , then when you're being social , it's just social . When you're doing business , you would want to separate the two spaces . If this is a person that you'd want to pursue a friendship with a genuine friendship , right yeah .

If you're being social because you're networking with the person , then business sort of could happen on an outing , I guess . So , yeah , the relationship . So if you're saying , okay , I'm going on vacation with this person and I really like this person , you guys will want to have that conversation about as friends .

It's fair to both of us If we keep business in one space . That way we can keep records and notes and make sure that things get followed through and it's appropriate and together we could just enjoy each other .

Like yeah , and then there's no resentment and feeling like you're working harder than you need to for somebody and the friend they should get it and understand it right .

I liked how you put that and that's probably where , like , the medical professionality comes in right For us in the creative space . It's almost blurry , I feel , but it's really . It's really that , like , let's create accountability where we have records , we have notes , we can follow through , we have a consistency .

I really like that and I feel it's a great benefit for us in the creative space to be like , hey , let's actually be mindful of that , not to say we cannot be professional without it , but it just makes it a lot easier .

So let's wait till we're back , or I can do it better than drinking , who knows ?

Maybe the whole copyrighting comes a little bit easier if you're kidding , but yeah , no , I really like the point of fairness that you've praised . We often , especially as entrepreneurs , we're always kind of looking oh , what is fair for them ? Like are they getting a good deal with working with me ? Are they getting the appropriate care , what is fair ?

But we hardly ever apply this really and fully to ourselves and I just also got like oh yeah , and then like model components , like , oh , okay , fair , what is fair ?

Have you established what they expect for whatever they're getting ? And if you're giving it , then it's fair Right , didn't you agree ? Okay , I'll do this for you . This is what you need . Did it include all these extra things ? Yeah , so why don't you ?

That manifests when you do something and you're like here , have it , Okay , fair enough , right , but I don't know . I sometimes have so many clients who are like , oh , and then I like did this and I'm like , well , but that was out of school . Like why did you ?

Yeah , I just I felt like I , I don't know Well , why , Like , what is the script that is playing or the conditioning that is playing that keeps us kind of like over delivering ?

Sort of like you can go and thought it's a thick door versus this door versus that store , right , and so somewhere between the middle and the high end the value is considered more appealing than the one at the low end For majority of people , and the same thing would go for a product , any product . You are a product , right ?

Yeah , you're constantly adding or discounting yourself . That's a good point . You can add a chin , but it's different than just giving things away free , free , free , free , free , free , constantly past what you've agreed , especially if they're happy with what you're giving .

But it's really interesting that we do that , or some of us have experience with that , and I think that every one of us had occasionally had tips , like when we're delivered , we're all humans and kind of like oh , maybe , I don't know , she likes me more or she refers another client or whatever it is .

And it's surely a good thing to kind of like pause yourself and really ask like , okay , why am I doing this ? And if you see it as a repeating pattern , maybe look closer and like , okay , what's going on here ?

It allows them to be prepared that if they take longer to get their needs met and you to collaborate , they're prepared for that . As opposed to oh , we met for an hour and a half . We agreed to meet for an hour . Here's an extra $300 bill for the extra 30 minutes . I , like you , didn't tell me if I went . You know what I mean .

That is your way to kind of segue into my . Time is valuable , as it's yours . So either we stay within our timeframe in the future or you will be built for that . That is another .

I had very , very few people were like oh , no , right , like it's really boils down and that's also something that we heard a thousand times like clear communication and expectation management . Right , like , oh , I know she told me she'll got a charge me for that half an hour .

It's cool , she was very gracious , she didn't bill me the first half an hour , but yeah , I get it . Like he also wants to make money . So there we go and like , really , yeah , the more you should be clear about that .

It really maybe also walk through your client journey where you're like , oh , okay , baby , I , I , when they sign a contract or they fill in their application form or whatever , wherever is the space to kind of like add in those boundaries , like , hey , you know I'm , if you write me an email , I'll answer you within 48 hours and not like six hours , because

that's not how I operate . Whatever , right , like we were free .

That's where a lot of like oh , probably our old corporate world conditioning comes in to define how we want to do business and then little things creep in of oh , but maybe I should this too , so she gets more worth or value , whatever , or or other things like oh , and that's another in component oh , but this person offers 12 hours with feedback within 12 hours

. I only do 24 , maybe I should also do 12 . That compares to nighting .

Typically we do it within a day , but there are times that either I'm out or my office manager , who actually added letters , is out and we need a day or two to kind of get it back into our school . Give ourselves a grace period just in case . But typically our norm is 24 . It's a business day .

I remember , like when I was at university and like I was like , oh , I still have time to write to hand in that paper , there was always something I would always be scrapped all over the place Like I don't know , like yeah , no , I gladly can say I matured from this . I matured , I'm not no longer doing that .

I learned it the hard way , but I guess that's fine . Like we're all coming I don't know again , meeting in different situations and just trying our best . That's what it's about , right , like having just trying our best , especially with boundaries and also signing . How would like is it the same ? Like when you started like boundaries go . So where would you start ?

Like if you someone was really struggling with setting boundaries , would we say you go to the one that comes like easiest to you , how to identify the one boundary that you could set the easiest so you can kind of like grow your boundary muscle and get used to growing your boundaries and protecting your boundaries .

The come on or practice the come on and see how it fits and how they can assertively push back Right ? And so saying no comes with all different kinds of ways . You could say I can't today , but I could next week . So it's a no , but you're offering an alternative , right ? Or you could say I can't . You know , you always ask me .

Why don't you ask Jim this time ? He hasn't done it in forever . I'm doing that with my mom , right ? Or it could be . Oh , I so appreciate the invite . That's so lovely . I've . I'm over committed at this point in time , maybe next , but you're thanking them for the opportunity , right ?

If it's something that you're not happy , excited , resentful , If it goes from neutral to resentful ? The answer is no .

You can't say no , sorry , I'm not helping you get dressed in the morning to your two-year-old because you don't feel like it and you're sending boundaries . I think it's a very yeah .

Balance is , I don't know , getting out of line and finding a way to still , kind of like , do it , does it , is it ? Maybe you just need to pee first because you really need to pee ? Or do you need your morning coffee first , or do you ? Is it always just really stressful ?

So maybe you put on socks and bottom upstairs and jacket and thing downstairs so you break it apart . I don't know .

Yeah , change the way your mind kind of processes it .

Oh , I love this . I'm really good , very practical . Get some how to say boundary , then , how to graciously getting out of situations that we do not want to get into , and how we can say something else that just no , although no , as we agree , we learned , no is a full sentence and it's totally okay to such a say no .

Hey , randy , thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me on the scenic wood podcast . Before I let you go , let listeners know where can people find you ? Are you on social media ? Where do you hang out ?

That's where I run my women's groups and retreats to help women find balance and address dress and burnout . So those are the places to find me Perfect and shrink , because you can't tell that on here . So it's like a double .

And one last question before I let you go what book are you currently reading ?

I think it's a book , and then it's a movie and or a series , and then my friend recommended to me now I think it's becoming a theatrical version and then braiding sweetgrass is something that I was going to read .

I'm like , oh , or when you said this book , so I'm going to check it out . So again , thank you so much for being with me on the scenic road podcast . It was a blast . Thank you so much , randy , my pleasure .