Jennifer Walter (00:00:01) - Hi, and welcome to the Scenic Route podcast. This is the show for building a successful and sustainable business on your terms. My name is Jen, and I'm a rebranding sociologist with a soft spot for rhubarb pie. Each week, I'll strive to expand your branding, business expertise and mindset capacity. I am so excited you're here. And now, let's get into today's episode. Heather Jones is a native New Yorker who now lives in Alabama with her wonderful husband and two beautiful children. She's a lifelong lover of books, animals and creating. Heather is a certified life coach who has taken the long route with many exciting endeavours. On our way here at 18. She joined the Army, met her husband, and after serving six years, exited the military to start culinary school. She entered the entrepreneurial world officially as an Etsy shop owner, and over time, while enjoyable, she realized there was something more she wanted to do. And that is when she found her passion to inspire and empower others. Headers is also a published author. She wrote a book, More than Mom, from Stay at Home Mom to Entrepreneur.
Jennifer Walter (00:01:04) - Welcome Heather, to the Scenic Route podcast. I'm so happy to have you. I'm so excited to be here. How are you? I'm good. I'm really good. How are you? I'm. I'm a bit tired, but I think that's just like. Well, yeah, I don't know. We're all it's just the season of life. But Heather So anyone listening can get an idea of who, who you are and what you do Like, can you briefly please walk us through your story like how you started and how you got where you are today? The pivotal crossroads, the big moments. Yes. Okay. Thank you for asking. I'm going to try to keep it brief because I'm 40 where I came from and how I got here could take us like, you know, forever. That is true. That is so true. Kind of like I don't know. I'm always I don't know. People always kind of like, oh, it's like an elevator pitch. Yeah, sure. But I just hate that word.
Jennifer Walter (00:02:02) - So I'm like, there's a lot of stress behind that word for me, so I'm just going to go with the easy stuff. Yeah, Just kind of like, give us an idea. What do we need to know about you? Okay, What you need to know. So I am a mom of two, a nine year old boy and a seven year old girl. I am happily.
Heather Jones (00:02:21) - Married to a man I met while we are both serving in the army and we are both veterans now. I am a business owner and I have been a business owner in different capacities for, oh no, five, six ish years now, but about two years as a life coach.
Jennifer Walter (00:02:40) - That's amazing. Oh, thank you. How did you transition out of the army? I'm curious. Or what?
Heather Jones (00:02:49) - Wow. So I joined the army when I was 18.
Jennifer Walter (00:02:52) - Wow. Okay.
Heather Jones (00:02:54) - A lifetime ago. Yeah. I joined the Army when I was 18. I served a little over six years and six years was one enlistment for me.
Heather Jones (00:03:03) - So I did just a little bit more because I was deployed when I came up on those six years. So I did just a little bit more. And then I came home and I got out. I just knew. I knew I wanted to get out. It's not that I hated the army. I loved the time that I spent in the Army. I met the love of my life and army. It gave me a million good things to talk about. But I knew that that enlistment was all that was meant for. Yeah, I had no heartache about getting out, and I've never had heartache a day since getting out.
Jennifer Walter (00:03:31) - So did you start with life coaching right away or like, what? What brought you from the army to life coaching?
Heather Jones (00:03:38) - Oh, there's a path there.
Jennifer Walter (00:03:40) - Yeah, I'm sure there is.
Heather Jones (00:03:41) - Perfect for this podcast. Right. Okay, let's see. I got out of the Army as somebody who was doing computer maintenance. That's what I did while I was in. So I got out doing that and I fell into a job that was a little bit of logistics, like government type stuff with a little bit of IT, information technology.
Heather Jones (00:04:00) - And that was in the capacity as a a contractor for the government. That job led to a government, a federal government position, which I held for a few years. And then we actually during that time I went to culinary school. And okay.
Jennifer Walter (00:04:20) - Did not see that coming.
Heather Jones (00:04:21) - So many things.
Jennifer Walter (00:04:26) - I was like, you probably told me like you're probably going to be like, Oh, I started life coaching or I started like a modality or something. Culinary school.
Heather Jones (00:04:33) - When I say there is a path, there was a path. We're not even close to the end here, but I'm going to try to keep it brief. So went to culinary school while I was working full time. I really, truly thought that I was going to open a bakery. So the entrepreneurial mindset was there.
Jennifer Walter (00:04:49) - Yeah. Yes. Oh, I loved it.
Heather Jones (00:04:52) - Um, except for I didn't end up opening one my husband hit me with I want to do 20 years in the Army, and I was like.
Jennifer Walter (00:04:58) - Oh, it's not really with the bakery.
Heather Jones (00:05:01) - Probably can't move a bakery every three years with me. I mean, unless it's a bakery on wheels, which was not my dream. So back seat.
Jennifer Walter (00:05:09) - Yeah. Brick-and-mortar bakery will be hard to do. Yeah.
Heather Jones (00:05:13) - Yeah, It's. I don't know if I could get somebody to pick up a whole building and move it for me. That would maybe not. So I put that on the back burner. I said, All right, let's rock. Let's do this. Let's do 20 years in the military. You do your thing. I will support and I'll figure it out on my end. And that's what it was, a conversation. There was a whole conversation, but that's what I did. So we switched duty stations. I stopped working. We got to his very next duty station. I got pregnant shortly after intentionally, and during that time I was hit with something I never, ever in a lifetime saw coming, which was I decided I wanted to be a stay at home mom, which shocked the pants off of me.
Jennifer Walter (00:05:55) - So. Right. Like. But that's so interesting. You never quite you have this idea and now we're getting into what we kind of like where where we want us to go. Right where you before you're pregnant and while you're pregnant before we give birth. You have this idea in your head what type of mom you should be, right? Like, yes. And like, oh, I don't know. It's all sorts of things. Right. And it's never actually happening that way.
Heather Jones (00:06:30) - No, no. Yes, we have a zillion shoulds. I should be working and finding a place for my kid to go during the day and I should be doing this and I should be doing that. And that's exactly what I thought I was going to be doing. And then when I was like, Wait a minute, what is this feeling? I want to I think I want to. And there was a little bit of shame, right? I was shocked when I discovered that I actually wanted to stay home.
Heather Jones (00:06:55) - And this is while I was still pregnant. My son hadn't come yet, but I just knew that I wanted to be home with him somehow. I knew that I wanted to be home with him and I felt guilty because I'm like, Oh, that's not what I had planned.
Jennifer Walter (00:07:05) - That's where's the where was the guilt coming from?
Heather Jones (00:07:08) - I should be bringing in income. Oh, because that was my plan. That's what I thought I'd be doing.
Jennifer Walter (00:07:13) - Like the self-sufficiency or like. Yeah, the work or.
Heather Jones (00:07:17) - No. I left home at 18 and I supported myself from that point on. Yeah. Um, so I was an independent woman. Yeah. I was going to have a career and income to contribute. Yeah. So there was a lot.
Jennifer Walter (00:07:30) - Yes. You should have a career or should have an income. You should have. I should have.
Heather Jones (00:07:33) - All the things.
Jennifer Walter (00:07:34) - All the should.
Heather Jones (00:07:35) - Be all the things I should do. All the things. So yeah, a little bit of guilt. So as after my son was born and I was sitting there and I was getting the itch, it was coming back, I'm like, okay, I'm here and I love being home with him.
Heather Jones (00:07:48) - It's the decision I made and I don't regret it, but I really need to have an income. How do I do that and stay home? So I started I don't know if you're familiar with MLM, it's multi-level marketing.
Jennifer Walter (00:07:57) - Yes. It's not such a big thing here, but I yeah, familiar with the concept. Ever since Tupperware was a thing in the 80s, right?
Heather Jones (00:08:04) - I remember that. Yeah. So that's where I started. And they tell you, you know, o own your own business and I'm like cool, want to own my own business. And so I started doing that, but I'm like, Oh, this doesn't feel like owning my own business. But it led me to realize I did want to own my own business.
Jennifer Walter (00:08:19) - Um.
Heather Jones (00:08:20) - So I opened Etsy shops.
Jennifer Walter (00:08:22) - Oh, what did you do?
Heather Jones (00:08:25) - So I had three shops. At one point, my very first shop I started, I was doing crochet and then I opened up a little section of that shop where I was doing wood signs like home decor stuff.
Heather Jones (00:08:37) - And then I started another shop selling my late stepmother's vintage jewelry. And then I shifted my wood signs into its own shop. So three Etsy shops.
Jennifer Walter (00:08:48) - Wow, that sounds busy. It was.
Heather Jones (00:08:51) - Ridiculous. But I was exploring like I didn't know what I was passionate about. I had always planned on working for somebody, even though deep down inside there was an entrepreneur like screaming to get out.
Jennifer Walter (00:09:02) - Yeah, it's like such a good thing, though, right? That you gave yourself the space and time to explore. And also like that you had like the privilege to write because a lot of us start their journey with, Oh, like I've got to do this and it's better work or else.
Heather Jones (00:09:21) - Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:09:22) - Right.
Heather Jones (00:09:22) - And I don't pay the light bill.
Jennifer Walter (00:09:24) - Yeah, my car repaired.
Heather Jones (00:09:26) - Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:09:27) - Yeah. I don't know. I get kicked out of my house, I lose my lease and whatever. Right. Like an unbearable amount of pressure.
Heather Jones (00:09:34) - Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:09:35) - And I don't know, it's always kind of like.
Jennifer Walter (00:09:38) - Well, I feel you're not making the best, most thoughtful, long term decisions when you're under economic stress, Right? Like you're. Yeah. Going for it. You're tend to go for the quick fix, for the easy way out, for the one thing you should be doing.
Heather Jones (00:09:54) - Yeah. Yeah. And out of necessary necessity. Right. Because there's a lot of fear there naturally. I mean, I'd be terrified if I thought I couldn't pay my bills. And so I. I think that even though I can't relate, I did have that privilege of kind of taking my time and exploring because we had the solid income with my husband being in the military at that time. And I'm grateful for that. So it's not lost on me that I had that available and that everybody does. But I can imagine there's a massive amount of fear there, like a pressure I have to make this work. I have to figure out something right now.
Jennifer Walter (00:10:27) - Yeah. And I suppose and the funny thing, the funny ha ha thing is like, even though you had some of the monetary privileges, I bet my sorry little ass that you had a lot of fear, right? Because we all do.
Jennifer Walter (00:10:44) - When we start our businesses, there is like a tremendous amount of fear. So what, what, what were your biggest ones that you conquered?
Heather Jones (00:10:54) - So I have a history of perfectionism. And when I say history, that's not really accurate because it's still there. Right? I'm a recovering perfectionist. It still shows up. It's in there. But that was probably the biggest thing. Opening my own business was the perfectionism. It's got to be perfect. What are people going to think? What if I show up imperfectly? What are people going to say about me? What does that mean about me? Oh my gosh, I'm going to be so embarrassed. People are going to know that I'm not good at this. I'm a fraud. I mean, take a breath. Eat sounds.
Jennifer Walter (00:11:24) - It sounds quite mind spiraling. So I'm like, Take a breath, take a breath.
Heather Jones (00:11:28) - Let's all take a breath together. That was intense.
Jennifer Walter (00:11:32) - Yes. And it was like and I could so relate, right? Like, I remember there was a time when I don't know, I'd rather do, like, throw money at Facebook ads to kind of, like, stay in the city, then actually just reach out to my network and be like, Hey, I got this.
Jennifer Walter (00:11:50) - Fang Do you know anyone who wants to buy this? Right, because I'm like, I don't know, what will they think of me? What will they.
Heather Jones (00:12:00) - Oh, yeah, I've been there. I did that.
Jennifer Walter (00:12:05) - We get an honorary badge, sister, right?
Heather Jones (00:12:11) - Yeah. There's such a fear of being seen. And more than a fear of failure or feel of fear of success. Because then you really are seen.
Jennifer Walter (00:12:19) - Yes, but. Which is so absurd, right? You're a perfectionist. I am semi perfectionist, but I'm surely a high achiever. So, like high achiever and having a fear of success and you're like, wait, what? Like, that's so contradictory.
Heather Jones (00:12:36) - Right? But so much more people need to know. Like, this is a thing. Ladies. People are afraid of these things. You're not alone. We all experiencing it. Those of us that are doing the thing that fear either was there or is sitting in the background and we're just plowing through it.
Jennifer Walter (00:12:52) - Oh, I love that plowing.
Jennifer Walter (00:12:53) - Plowing through it. Yeah. But that's the thing, right? Like when you go go fast, when you're on the Hustle Highway, you plow through things and you're like, that's fine. It's good to deal with it later and it's just gonna comes around and hits you harder, right? Like, and if you're intentionally moving a bit slow, that also means you are conscious when those feelings arise and when they pop up and you're like, Oh.
Heather Jones (00:13:21) - Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:13:22) - Well, what are we doing? What are we doing now with it? What how we're dealing, how we're dealing with like with all those fears and things that come up.
Heather Jones (00:13:32) - Oh, so a lot of coaching in the beginning. Yeah. To come up with the tools.
Jennifer Walter (00:13:37) - Yeah. No. Yeah, like, it's a lot of coaching, but even before that, right? Like, it took me a while to actually realize, oh, maybe I do need coaching. Like, I mean, it was a point where, like, I somehow this the same things keep happening again and again and again in slight variations.
Jennifer Walter (00:13:59) - And that just kind of first, I don't know, I just had to first piece that together. Do you have a similar experience with that?
Heather Jones (00:14:06) - I don't I didn't even experience coaching until I went through my program to begin a coach. And that's where my opportunity to receive coaching began at the opportunity, because the opportunity was always available to me. I just didn't realize it was available to me. So that's where my journey being coach started.
Jennifer Walter (00:14:22) - Oh wow. Okay, so we're like, mind blown. Yeah, like, oh.
Heather Jones (00:14:26) - Wait a minute. I'm not just going to coach. You want me to explore inside too? I have to do the work, too. Okay.
Jennifer Walter (00:14:34) - Yeah, that's how it works, though. Did you not read the fine print?
Heather Jones (00:14:38) - Yeah, that part.
Jennifer Walter (00:14:40) - What was the biggest lightbulb moment when getting your coaching certification?
Heather Jones (00:14:44) - I did not know, so I knew I was a perfectionist. I had been called a perfectionist and I had actually been called a perfectionist from a very young age, from a very loving place.
Heather Jones (00:14:54) - Like it was a celebration. And this is not to say it's a bad thing. I don't want anybody who associates with being a perfectionist to think that they're bad.
Jennifer Walter (00:15:01) - It's bad. Yeah. We're not labeling good or bad.
Heather Jones (00:15:03) - Absolutely not. But it was celebrated. I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm a perfectionist. I always strive for perfection. That's a great thing, right? And then I was hit with the truth when I went through coaching program was perfectionism stems from fear. I'm like, Oh. So it's something I'm to work through, not celebrate. I have to dig into it. I was like, Holy cow, I didn't see that coming.
Jennifer Walter (00:15:28) - And it's is it is it kind of like a universal fear or or is it always a different fear that shows up differently in people in perfectionists?
Heather Jones (00:15:37) - There are different things that can trigger perfectionism. So let me backtrack a little bit. So as I was going through the program, the way that this particular program that I was certified in the way that it was taught was fear stems from for places or it should can show up in four ways.
Heather Jones (00:15:52) - And one of those ways is perfectionism. But that can show up for people who do and it can show up in everybody to different degrees. Some of us have that tiny bit of perfectionist tendency maybe in one area of the life, and it's.
Jennifer Walter (00:16:07) - Not all right. It's it could be in your private life and your business.
Heather Jones (00:16:11) - Different degrees for everybody. For me, I realized it was like it was my primary fear. So it shows up in a lot of areas in my life.
Jennifer Walter (00:16:19) - So that's interesting. Like, what are the other the other three?
Heather Jones (00:16:23) - Oh, gosh, I'm going to forget what I always do. So you got perfectionism. You have the pessimist.
Jennifer Walter (00:16:30) - Oh, yeah, it makes sense.
Heather Jones (00:16:32) - The martyr and the saboteur.
Jennifer Walter (00:16:35) - Yeah, the martyr makes sense to Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mean and I think that's especially I don't know I'd say to some degree like all parents do have, especially the ones and roles of mothers of mothers now like yeah.
Heather Jones (00:16:51) - That's a really clever assessment. I obviously I can't speak for every woman, every mother on earth, but I suspect to some degree we do.
Heather Jones (00:16:58) - Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:16:59) - Yeah. I mean generalizing here, like. Right, sure. But surely how it shows up in my business, it's kind of like having the tendency to overdeliver and kind of like it's not not straight martyr, but it's kind of like mixed in there too. Kind of like I. I'm kind of like, responsible. I'm better do overdeliver, kind of like taking on responsibility for your client's success, which ultimately you cannot do. You cannot even if you would want to. Oh, absolutely.
Heather Jones (00:17:31) - Right. Yeah. Yeah. We have to take responsibility for our own success. And so, of course, if you try to take responsibility from for somebody else's success, there's a massive letdown if they don't show up fully on their end. Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:17:44) - And I mean, then you start I mean, remember I had that very early on in one of my clients. It wasn't a really great client fit, but I mean, I don't know, at the beginning you're like, Oh, it's money.
Jennifer Walter (00:17:56) - So who am I to charge, right? It kind of I don't know. Most things went bad that could go bad. Yeah. So that client, it was like, really, uh, darn right. Like, I mean, so everything kind of, like, went bad. So I was. I was really trying my best. I was working my ass off. I was, like, delivering and delivering and delivering. And she was never just doing her homework. And then I was thinking of like, I mean, I'm a perfectionist or trying to do better improve. And I was like, okay, how can I make better structures, better processes that this doesn't happen? And and yes, some good things came out of it, but ultimately it was I had to realize I cannot force her to like. To do better or to change or whatever. It's not up to me.
Heather Jones (00:18:47) - Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of times that there are a lot of business owners that make that, um.
Heather Jones (00:18:56) - I'm going to use this term loosely because I don't want to offend anybody. But mistake. Right? Thinking that they are responsible for. Yeah. What happens on the other side of that by that product And that's I don't know where everybody picks that up. Me I did that too. And I because I was looking at everybody around to me and I was.
Jennifer Walter (00:19:17) - Like, Oh, you picked it up from, from like, from, from like from comparing yourself. Yeah. Like from comparing yourself to like, I assume all the, the glamorous people on social media.
Heather Jones (00:19:33) - Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:19:34) - Yeah. Well, we're all here.
Heather Jones (00:19:36) - Comparing myself and what my services could maybe should look like.
Jennifer Walter (00:19:41) - What your life coaching should look like. And then you're, of course, not looking at the life coach who also is just starting out, but you're looking at a life coach who is 20 years in business.
Heather Jones (00:19:52) - Yeah, and definitely not looking at like what? What how I truly want to show up as a What suits you, right? No.
Heather Jones (00:20:00) - What are they doing? They're successful. I should be doing what they're doing. That's. That's what I'm going to do.
Jennifer Walter (00:20:06) - Yeah, right. And then you're like, Oh, actually, wait a minute. They have a team of 30 and they have, I don't know, licensed out their model. They're like teaching models and like, that's not really cool.
Heather Jones (00:20:19) - And they've been doing it for 15 years and I've been doing it for 1 or 2.
Jennifer Walter (00:20:24) - Well, like, isn't that mad though? Like, I always feel like a lot of us who are listening, they started entrepreneurship. After death been in the corporate world. Right. So you've been in the corporate and there one way or another, you decided, nope, not the lie for me or in my case, more freedom, more. I want to do the things I want to do the way I want to do them. And I started started my own business. I think it was 2017 now, but and then in business. So the first couple of months for successful then was kind of like a bit of a slowing down period, which is fine, but I started to look like, Oh, okay, those branding people, they look successful.
Jennifer Walter (00:21:10) - Maybe my business should look like their business too. Yeah, that ended and me wanting to burn down everything.
Heather Jones (00:21:21) - Oh my gosh. You're not the first person I've heard said, let's just burn it all to the ground and start over. Because sometimes it feels so much easier to just do that because it kind of got herself in a mess trying to do what everybody else is doing.
Jennifer Walter (00:21:34) - Yeah, but yes. And at the same time, it's kind of like. This. I don't know this this this struggle of of doing it again, that you're like, no I, I don't know. I'd rather not burn everything to the ground, but I do want to burn anything to the ground and know it was a tricky period to kind of get out like to. And it the only thing that really helped was actually slowing down and listening to what feels good, like actually really tuning into my body and look like does this decision I just made, does this make me feel, I don't know, a life expanded or does it make me, I don't know, feel small or like, look.
Heather Jones (00:22:25) - Oh, that's so good. That's such a wonderful intuitive space to be in, to just slow down and stop and question yourself instead of looking around you.
Jennifer Walter (00:22:37) - Yeah. Which is not to say that it was particularly easy. No. It sounds simple enough, right? But it's never like, what is kind of like in your client, in your clients? I mean, I assume one of your top tips is also to slow down. To slow the fuck down. I don't know why that would make it.
Heather Jones (00:23:01) - Me want to crumble.
Jennifer Walter (00:23:03) - I'm Yeah, but it's like it's the thing we know. But the thing that's really hard, it's. I feel correct me, I feel it's the thing we know we should do because it's also the thing that actually works.
Heather Jones (00:23:20) - Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:23:21) - Right. Like it's kind of like, yes, you don't know, you should eat healthy because then you're getting all your vitamins, right? It's. There's not so much wiggle around it. And and still we have such a hard time with it.
Jennifer Walter (00:23:38) - Where do you think that's coming from?
Heather Jones (00:23:41) - So this is a guess on my part because, you know, again, everybody's going to be a little bit different. But I'd say for some, I think the fear of falling behind. Falling behind what? I don't know. Let's just leave that out in the air. But falling behind, if I slow down, I'm getting behind. So I can't slow down. I got to be busy. I got to stay busy. And if we feel like we're busy, we might be able to tell ourself. Or productive. Of course, that's too very.
Jennifer Walter (00:24:06) - So we're so we're getting so then we can tell ourselves we're getting ahead instead of falling down. I must be doing something.
Heather Jones (00:24:14) - I'm busy. Right? Busy is not necessarily being productive, but if you don't differentiate, you could talk yourself into that. Well, I've been busy all day. I'm moving, I'm making moves. I'm doing things. I'm going to get somewhere because.
Jennifer Walter (00:24:26) - I'm making progress.
Heather Jones (00:24:27) - Yeah, Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:24:29) - Oh, yeah. That's interesting. So it's the fear of, like, not being further ahead than you think you should be and then kind of like overcompensating by tricking your mind into. As long as I do busy work, my mind can believe I'm getting. I'm making progress. I'm getting ahead. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That sounds like one hell of a slippery road to burnout.
Heather Jones (00:24:54) - Right? And I suspect there's other stuff in there, but that's a very first thing that comes to mind.
Jennifer Walter (00:25:00) - That's so interesting. Yeah. And. Oh, oh, this thing is painfully true. The past couple of years, especially around my birthday, or maybe other people have it at New Year's, I don't know. But for me, it's birthdays, I think, like. I don't know. I should be further ahead. And I have no idea actually what a head looks like. But it's kind of like in the past. It came from this place of whatever I want. I'm not so sure, but I.
Jennifer Walter (00:25:29) - I know I don't want death. So it's kind of like that. And I should that I should be further along coming from the. I do really do not want to have this what I have. So I rather run away from it. Does it matter where?
Heather Jones (00:25:49) - And so I think, first of all, you're not alone. Like whether it's birth. You said birthday New Year. I think all the major events, right?
Jennifer Walter (00:25:57) - Oh.
Heather Jones (00:25:58) - We just had a kid. A friend just had a kid. A friend just got married. A younger sibling just did something that we have not yet attained. Like major life events cause a lot of reflection and not always in a way that's beneficial. A lot of times it's in a way that's judgmental, those shoulds.
Jennifer Walter (00:26:16) - Oh, yeah, and mean. And it's not just you doing that to yourself, right? It's also, I don't know when you you just had a kid and don't know someone's going going like, oh, when's the second one coming? Yeah, okay.
Heather Jones (00:26:32) - I can't walk from my C-section. Yeah, but sure.
Jennifer Walter (00:26:34) - Let's talk about it.
Heather Jones (00:26:35) - That.
Jennifer Walter (00:26:37) - Yeah, I'm still wearing adult diapers, but yes, let's talk about child number two. Yeah, I mean, that's what.
Heather Jones (00:26:43) - Society says I'm supposed to do, So. Yeah, let's rock.
Jennifer Walter (00:26:46) - Yeah, it's true, right? Like the major events cause us to reflect. Good or bad. Right.
Heather Jones (00:26:53) - Reflect, Or I guess I said reflect. But maybe compare is more appropriate. I know we said this earlier in the episode, but I feel like, yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:27:03) - Maybe, like reflecting is actually a good thing, right? You should really like, you should write this should you should reflect. No, but reflection is good. Yeah. I really think it's we I think we set out to reflect, but what we're actually doing is compare. Um. Yeah, right.
Heather Jones (00:27:20) - Like, yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:27:22) - We started reflecting. Like reflecting would just be, Oh, okay, I did that. And instead of like, yay, go, you're amazing.
Jennifer Walter (00:27:31) - You just did that. You're like, Oh, but she did this and that. Oh, so I'm behind.
Heather Jones (00:27:39) - Yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:27:40) - We quickly switched into comparison mode.
Heather Jones (00:27:43) - Yeah. Yeah. Comparison itis.
Jennifer Walter (00:27:47) - Yes, I love that word.
Heather Jones (00:27:49) - I do too.
Jennifer Walter (00:27:51) - So why do we do that? Hm. Why do we always kind of, like, feel? Consciously or unconsciously, do we feel the need to compare ourselves?
Heather Jones (00:28:02) - That's a really good question. I'm sure if you ask ten different people, you're going to get ten different answers. But here's my answer.
Jennifer Walter (00:28:08) - I want to know yours. Yeah, those people are not on a podcast, so those people are not cool. So I want to hear your answer.
Heather Jones (00:28:15) - Have to share their opinions somewhere else. Um, I think that we begin to compare ourselves when we are in a space of. Low self-esteem. It's not. I mean, I. Yeah, I want to caveat that with 8 million things, but let's rock with that line right now.
Jennifer Walter (00:28:35) - Sure. Let's rock and roll.
Heather Jones (00:28:37) - Yeah. Think if we're in a we're not sure of where we are because we're not in a space where our self esteem is significant or and I use I'm going to say self esteem and I'm going to say confidence and I'm going to try not to use them interchangeably because I don't believe they're interchangeable. They're not. They're similar, but not the same. So we're in when we're in a space where our self esteem has is kind of tanked or our confidence is low. And when I say so, self esteem like how we feel about ourselves, who we are is people. Confidence is how we feel about our own abilities. So when I differentiate, that's what yes, that makes maybe a little bit more sense now that.
Jennifer Walter (00:29:16) - No, no, no, it does. I think it's a very important distinction, right? Like, yeah. How like how we feel about ourselves and how we feel about what we do. Yeah, it's important to I think it's important to, to make the distinction, especially for people who.
Jennifer Walter (00:29:35) - Have not the ability to do what they want, right? So they're not So confidence and self esteem are not interchangeable.
Heather Jones (00:29:43) - No, no, no. And they're very closely related. And I even teach a course on confidence and self-esteem. Building is a part of confidence building in my course and in my opinion. But yeah, yeah, I do separate the two. But I think in either case, when we are not feeling self-assured or when our confidence is low, that's where we can fall into comparison. ItisIt is because we're not looking at our strengths in how proud we are of ourselves and our abilities that we know we have. We're looking at where we lack and that's where we're focusing. So we're starting to compare where we could be better. Why aren't we better? We're not in a state of self-love.
Jennifer Walter (00:30:25) - Oh, yes. Oh, I love this. Yeah. This needs to always look where we lack. Mhm. Right. Like. Where we're not good enough.
Heather Jones (00:30:41) - Oh, yeah.
Jennifer Walter (00:30:42) - That sounds like some inner child's healing.
Heather Jones (00:30:45) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not laughing because it's funny.
Jennifer Walter (00:30:49) - I'm laughing. No, the nail on the head. Yes. The only thing that actually gets us through, like. Right. Bloody hard. No, but it's. I mean, I'm an anagram. Seven. Laughing is my coping mechanism, so. But, like, yeah, I.
Heather Jones (00:31:02) - I don't know what I am, but that's my coping mechanism, too, so maybe I'm that too.
Jennifer Walter (00:31:06) - I would do the test. And if you are seven, email me because it is okay.
Heather Jones (00:31:11) - We'll commiserate.
Jennifer Walter (00:31:12) - I have a sneaking suspicion. No, but like, yeah, this is so true, right? Like, oh, so then we kind of like circle back to like, can we self like that self confidence self to kind of like how to self esteem. How how do we go about building that up?
Heather Jones (00:31:35) - Okay. Um, there are about 8 million ways. One of the ways that I like to start with is, um, there's a, there's a couple places I like to dive into like immediately with clients.
Heather Jones (00:31:47) - One of them is, um, affirmations. And it's not generic affirmations. They're very specific. The client comes up with the affirmations based on what they are able to believe about themselves. And even sometimes that's kind of a, a push for some that can actually be really, really hard for some people to even come up with one. And in that case, what I recommend is to come up with the evidence. So you, when you create the affirmation, create it using the evidence that you already have. So I am such and such thing because why do you know that? What is the thing that comes after the because or today went well like I did well at such and such thing today because I am I don't know good at writing. Yeah right. Whatever the thing is. Yeah. Fill in the blank. So, it's using the evidence. If you find that you've used affirmations in the past.
Jennifer Walter (00:32:46) - Evidence based affirmation.
Heather Jones (00:32:48) - Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Jennifer Walter (00:32:50) - Don't like that.
Heather Jones (00:32:51) - So there's that.
Heather Jones (00:32:53) - And there's so many things that you can do with that. But don't just create an affirmation and put it somewhere and look at it every once in a while; integrate it into your day multiple times a day, every single day, until it becomes a habit that that is like that, that comes second nature to you. You can just recite it and you believe it and it hits home and you're like, Yes.
Jennifer Walter (00:33:12) - That's the thing, though, right? I feel the believing part is what a lot of people skip, right? Like, yeah, you can write on that sticky note. I'm a millionaire a gazillion shitload of times. If your mind does not believe what you're saying to yourself. As I put myself out there, I don't think you can fake that till you make it.
Heather Jones (00:33:36) - I used that phrase earlier today. I so agree with you. Yeah. I don't subscribe to fake it till you make it. I. Find the evidence like you're. You're not a complete piece of shit.
Heather Jones (00:33:48) - There's some good stuff about it.
Jennifer Walter (00:33:50) - You that you aren't. Yes, you.
Heather Jones (00:33:53) - There are there. That's. That's horrible. Life coaching advice right there is that you are an amazing person.
Jennifer Walter (00:34:00) - I mean, seriously, you should put that on your website. You're not a horrible piece of shit, but I'm sure you're together. Things we could work together.
Heather Jones (00:34:09) - Oh, God. Nobody's ever going to hire me again.
Jennifer Walter (00:34:11) - No, it's actually brilliant. It's actually a unique positioning, though. Yeah. Yeah.
Heather Jones (00:34:18) - If this resonates with you, call me.
Jennifer Walter (00:34:20) - So that's branding one on one lesson. Maybe that's a bit harsh. Maybe we can phrase it more nicely, but that's kind of like that's the thing about the positioning, right? You want to attract the people who are like, hell, yes, this speaks to me and repels all the others. Yeah, Tell them, like Teflon, just. Nope. Yes, yes, yes. Well, think about it.
Heather Jones (00:34:47) - Okay. Well, I mean, this is me.
Heather Jones (00:34:49) - This is. Who am I? Cos a little bit. That's cool.
Jennifer Walter (00:34:52) - Something I want to talk about is what you said before is the self-love part. Right? Like showing ourselves more love. Because there is a fat chance we're showing a hell of lot more love to him, to everybody else in our lives, than to ourselves. Yeah. And especially in the way we talk about ourselves, right? Like our little nagging little critic voice. Like, I was just going to say, I feel.
Heather Jones (00:35:24) - Like you and I have coached together because that's the exact same thing now that I'm remembering.
Jennifer Walter (00:35:29) - Maybe another lifetime. Maybe, yes.
Heather Jones (00:35:33) - That inner critic work that's actually like my passion. That's my favourite thing to do with people to start to put that inner critic in the background. So she's not so loud in the forefront.
Jennifer Walter (00:35:44) - How do we do that? How do we put it on the back seat?
Heather Jones (00:35:46) - Okay. I love that question. So, awareness is not an exciting answer, but that's where we start, right? We don't know.
Heather Jones (00:35:55) - We don't know what we don't know. So until we bring our awareness to it, which is exactly like, this is all you need, this conversation right here is all you need to realize there that you need to be aware, and then you are because you've heard it. Now it's like that red. You see that you buy a new car; you've never seen that car anywhere, and you buy it. And this one particular colour, you never see them. And then you buy it, and suddenly, they're everywhere. Everybody owns one. And you're wondering why so many people went out and bought your car.
Jennifer Walter (00:36:23) - I have never seen as many pregnant people as when I was pregnant. It was like, Whoa, everyone is friendly.
Heather Jones (00:36:28) - It's in your awareness. Yeah, Yeah. So now that you've heard me say this, you're going to start questioning, like thinking, being aware of the thoughts that you have.
Jennifer Walter (00:36:39) - So, are you questioning if it's my voice, if those are my thoughts coming from a self-compassionate, self-loving space, or is it? Or are there the Fords and voices of my inner critic?
Heather Jones (00:36:52) - So your inner critic, it might not be your voice. That's actually an exercise I take some of my clients through. Yes, I'd say it's like my favourite exercise. It's characterizing the inner critic. That inner critic voice might not be your voice. It might be your voice. It might be multiple voices. You know, if you had a parent or a relative who was really critical of you in your early years, you might carry that voice with you. That might be the voice you hear when certain thoughts enter your head. Sometimes we get so used to hearing it, we don't even realize it's a voice. It's just what it is. It just exists all the time. It's. Yeah, you don't even realize it's there. But now, with that awareness, you start to listen to it. You start to pay attention to it. You go, Oh, I just called myself stupid. That probably wasn't a nice thing to do. You might not know what to do with it at that moment just yet, but now that you're becoming aware, then you can start to take the next step to replace it, to shift it, to replace it with something that's kinder.
Heather Jones (00:37:51) - So, and there's a lot of ways to do that, but that's the very first thing. Awareness. Yeah, yeah. And then recognize how that's making you feel. When I just called myself stupid, was I lifting myself up? Do you know how it felt? And you can get curious, and you can start to kind of explore like, what is that doing to me? What is that doing to my self-esteem?
Jennifer Walter (00:38:11) - Yeah, maybe a good workaround for that, for those who have kids, is like, Would I say that to my kid?
Heather Jones (00:38:19) - Yes. Right.
Jennifer Walter (00:38:20) - Like what I say to my kid, You're stupid. Probably not. Yeah, right. If you're listening to this podcast, don't you? Don't. So why the heck are you calling yourself stupid?
Heather Jones (00:38:34) - That's a really good question. If I wouldn't say that to somebody else, why is it okay to say that to me?
Jennifer Walter (00:38:40) - Yeah. Yeah, because you should. I mean, no. Now I'm getting the RuPaul Drag Race catchphrase. If you don't love yourself, how the hell are you going to love somebody else, right? Like, but still, we do.
Jennifer Walter (00:38:57) - Yeah, I like that. I like that the awareness thing. Yeah. Like to really have. Which feels really hard, right, when you're overwhelmed. A lot of things are going on. The world's going to shit currently like it's hard to hold the space to to have the awareness. Yeah.
Heather Jones (00:39:20) - Think you're onto something there? I don't disagree whatsoever, but I'll go back to the Once it's been said and it's out there, it is almost hard to ignore it until it's been brought to you. I think I'd agree with that. But then somebody listening to this podcast, they've heard it now. So now it's there. It's out there.
Jennifer Walter (00:39:40) - Yeah. And you cannot wrap it back in. That's not how you can't send it back. You have to keep it like, sorry, return to sender. Oh, God. I wish that would be true. Imagine having, like, a post station where you can just, like, return it. Be, like, not going to deal with this today.
Jennifer Walter (00:40:00) - Nope. Oh, man. What would be so cool? Okay. Yeah. It's also getting completely hard and badly off-topic. So, like, that's the first thing to do, to have awareness. I know you have other things that you can start doing right away to kind of like quiet your inner critic voice. Do you want to tell me something about what you brought for anyone who's listening, what you brought today, what people can subscribe and what people can get from the resource you brought into the podcast?
Heather Jones (00:40:31) - So yes, I have, um, I have a guide. It's about quieting your inner critic, and it is three simple ways. I say simply because they are simple in concept. That does not mean you don't have to do the work. I'm sorry.
Jennifer Walter (00:40:45) - And they're not easy. I wish.
Heather Jones (00:40:47) - I for, like.
Jennifer Walter (00:40:48) - Simple and.
Heather Jones (00:40:48) - Yeah, I wish I could wave my magic wand, but you do have to do the work.
Jennifer Walter (00:40:53) - Yeah, but that's what we. We talked about it before, right? Like, Yeah, yeah, very.
Jennifer Walter (00:40:57) - It's the first part. And then, kind of like finding the right resources is, is an important step. And then, ultimately, you gotta do it. There is no way around it. You gotta get in the mud and get through it in a gentle way, not in a like push.
Heather Jones (00:41:11) - No, no, no. In a loving way. Now I have to. I suck if I don't know. Because I love myself. I deserve to give myself this gift. And this gift is putting in the work for me so that I can live my most fulfilled, joyful life. Yeah. And I'm going to get a little machine so I don't. Just cause I get soft, I get gentle, I get mushy. Actually, in my sessions, I'm very much like the chill peace; let's love. That's more my vibe in a session. But anyways, um, the guide helps you to ease your way into doing the work.
Jennifer Walter (00:41:43) - I love that. So, I will link it in the show notes.
Jennifer Walter (00:41:48) - Where can where do you hang out on social? Where can people find you if they want to get in touch with you?
Heather Jones (00:41:52) - Okay, so Facebook is just Heather Jones coaching. Instagram, they gave me underscores, so they had their underscore Jones underscore coaching. I'm on LinkedIn. I don't know much about LinkedIn. You can find me, we can connect, but there's probably not a whole lot that's going to happen there. But it's Heather Jones coaching as well.
Jennifer Walter (00:42:14) - Yeah.
Heather Jones (00:42:14) - Hey yeah, put out in the universe. So hey, and then if you don't want to memorize 8 million places, go to Heather Jones coaching, and you can find all my places there.
Jennifer Walter (00:42:24) - Yes, and we got to link them all in the show notes. Beautiful. Love that. So I always have one last question because I don't know. I'm always kind of like needing new materials. Don't don't start sweating. It's okay. It's cool. It's an easy question. What book are you currently reading, or what audiobook are you currently listening to?
Heather Jones (00:42:42) - Oh, I don't think you have any idea how loaded that question is.
Jennifer Walter (00:42:46) - Oh, I do. I do. I'm two people. I'm the people. I'm the person who buys all the books she wants to read, and then I'm the person who actually reads the books she bought. Not the same.
Heather Jones (00:42:56) - Thing. This is a part of the stack that I am currently reading.
Jennifer Walter (00:43:00) - I'm a stack reader to love it. Okay, so pick one from the stack.
Heather Jones (00:43:04) - Okay. Um, the little book of energy healing Techniques. So I've been on this exploration of quantum healing lately, which, hey, may have a future, but right now, it's just exploration on my part. So that's.
Jennifer Walter (00:43:18) - Oh, okay. So when you're ready to talk about, we're going to do another episode on Quantum healing.
Heather Jones (00:43:22) - Okay. I cannot promise I'll be the expert. Maybe you'll be the expert, or we'll bring in an expert. But yeah, let's rock.
Jennifer Walter (00:43:29) - We're we're about the lived experiences of people. So you're the expert of your lived experience, So that's good enough for me. Love it.
Heather Jones (00:43:35) - I love it.
Heather Jones (00:43:37) - Wait, So can I flip it? What book are you currently reading?
Jennifer Walter (00:43:40) - Yes, please. Yes. And I can tell you without shame. It's called The Christmas Bookshop by Jenny Colgan. And she is like one of the best slash-worst British chick fiction writers. You know, that kind of. Yeah. The shame. Yeah. Always read something that makes you look good. If you die in the middle of it. This will not make me look good. No, but, like, it's entertaining. It's soft. It's mushy. You always kind of, like, have an idea where the story's going, but there's still a bit of surprise, but not too much. So you're on edge, just like the healthy amount. And it's just kind of like. Moves on at a very, I don't know, gentle pace, and she doesn't know if you have I don't know if you've read one book of hers. You kind of know what's coming. And sometimes you just you just crave that. So, we're going to link it to the Christmas Book Bookshop by Jenny Colgan.
Jennifer Walter (00:44:41) - I love it.
Heather Jones (00:44:43) - Thank you for letting me spend five seconds in that seat.
Jennifer Walter (00:44:46) - Well, thank you for flipping. No one has asked me before. Hey, listen, Heather, thank you so much for joining me on this episode of the Scenic Route podcast. It was such a joy having you. Thank you so much.
Heather Jones (00:44:58) - Thank you.
Jennifer Walter (00:45:01) - Thank you so much for listening to the Scenic Route podcast. I hope you've enjoyed today's episode and that you can take something from it that feels right to you. I'd be so grateful if you could share the Scenic Route podcast with others. As always, you can head over to Scenic Route Podcast to check out all the links and resources from today's episode. Oh, and while you're there, don't forget to download my free email course Intuitive Branding invitation to teach you how you can successfully tune into your own brand frequency and rediscover your brand's unique gifts, strengths and talents. So, thanks again. Talk soon.