Hello., ladies. Welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast. I am so excited for today's guest, Betsy Jordan. Erin. I'm so happy to have you here today. Lots for us to talk about. But before we get started, can you introduce yourself to the audience? Sure. My name is Betsy Jordan. I am a business mentor and a brand messaging and positioning strategist for remarkable consultants and coaches and their unique strengths and experiences and passions. Very nice, very nice.
So who is your typical client and how did you upon them? Did they choose you or did you choose them? So my ideal client is usually somebody who's either like one or two phases in their career. They're either at a corporate kind of job and they're like, okay, I've had enough. I've hit the top. I wonder What is this for? I wanna have control over my career in my life, and I have more significance, and I'm not sure how to navigate that.
So that's one set of my clients and they know they wanna start a business that relates to their knowledge and their expertise. Like a consultant, coach, speaker kind of person. Or it's somebody who they built. The wrong business and it's not the business that they are loving and it's not the right one. I work with them and we use basically the same processes for both of them. I think they find me because of my content, which is how you and I got connected. Very, very nice.
So I've heard, you reminded me of this term boomer preneur, but maybe that doesn't apply. Like we're people who had this whole career and now they wanna Do this consulting or things like that? Is that a term that, am I the only one who uses that term? I don't know if I would use that one. I use more like corporate refugee or somebody who's like a mid-career professional.
Like there's other people like Marie Folio who's out there and I think there's a huge difference between somebody who's an entrepreneur and that's their first career. Mm-hmm. Versus what it takes for somebody who's mid-career, who's got, a certain amount of perk status in their job, in their. Corner office, their status. Everybody's expecting so much from them and for them to leave that kind of golden handcuff kind of situation mm-hmm. Into starting a business is completely different.
And those are the people I really love serving the most. that is a shocker. As well as just the way are staffed has changed. Like when I started my career, everyone had. What was then as secretary, but then became an assistant. And then I remember, this is maybe 10 years ago, I was working with a client and I'm like, well, you know, just have your assistant send it to me. He's like, and this was the c e o And he is like, I don't have an assistant.
Like, cause everyone just, you know, kind of, and they just kind of do things differently, you know? Mm-hmm. And, so to stop having that, support and becoming an entrepreneur, that's gotta be quite the shock to the system. Well, that will actually feed into part of what we're gonna talk about today. I mean, there's many things that we could talk about, but that's corporate to entrepreneur transition.
And in particular in the consulting space where we're experts, we're using our brains, we're gonna talk about profitability, I'll let you talk about what the differences are, but really about profitability. Because when we're in corporate and we think about, you know, okay, you have revenue, and then you got all these overhead pieces. rent and payroll and office supplies and vendors and maybe when we are solopreneurs, we. Don't have any of those things. So we think it's all profit, you know?
and we're not really thinking about the big picture of making sure what we're doing really is profitable. Does it really make sense for us to do this versus going back to the corporate job. And so I'd love for you to start big picture about, what profit is versus things like income and revenue and how that applies the problems that you see among your, clients kind of wrapping their heads around these things.
one of the biggest things I think when people are leaving a corporate job and starting a or any sort of job and starting a business is understanding that your relationship to money has changed. So when you're in a job, you're in a compensation model. what that means is I do work. And then I get paid for, I don't even have to get paid for it. I get paid. And I get compensated for the work that I do. And so it's a compensation model.
And I think a lot of times when people leave that compensation model and they go into a business, they don't make that shift of saying, "Wait a minute, I have to create a business." And business is different. So business is about, I invest money first and then I get a return. And so that's like the first big shift like, any one of my clients were advising their clients or going to a company, they would say, "Well, you have to spend money to make money." Mm-hmm.
But when they leave and they start their own business, they think, well, I don't need to spend money. I could just go out there and find clients. And I'm like, well, if you're gonna just go out there and find clients, you're actually recreating your job. In a business, and you're gonna wind up in that trading time for money trap because that's what you know. Mm-hmm. And that's what other people are.
So we think, oh, okay, well I'm gonna go look for other busier consultants and take their carryover work, or I'm gonna sign up for this coaching form and they're gonna bring clients to me. you're still in a compensation model, so there's no profit potential in a compensation model. Because you don't have a business, you have to think about money completely different when you are starting a business. That's why it's important that you invest properly in a really great website.
You get clear in your messaging, you figure out who you're going after, and then you figure out like what are different ways that you're going to provide products and services that are scalable? And so that first mindset is you have to go first. And it's interesting with, expert knowledge workers as I always use, the example of the hotdog cart.
Because I did research one time around how much does it cost to set up a cop dog cart, and it was like something like $50,000 you have to invest to buy a hotdog cart, get it up and running, find your corner and all of that. People would get that like, I have to spend money on my hotdog cart. I have to spend money on hotdogs. I have to spend money on condiments in order to get sales.
But when you're dealing with knowledge, it's like, well, I don't need to do that because I've been doing this for a long time. So it's the mindset. Is the first thing before we could even talk about the difference between profitability, trading, time for money, and all that kind of stuff. Thank you for that. Yes. Well, that's the danger of me trying to set up something without being the expert. So thank you for that. That is so important.
I, have been a victim of exactly what you talked about and, some lawyers never leave that. Money, mindset. but it is something that I see again and again on the one hand, the ability to go straight from our corporate job to quickly, creating income, so we can keep paying the mortgage and things is one of the benefits of it, but also one of the traps of it, because you can get stuck there, right? you can't scale. Mm-hmm. And it's not sustainable. Mm-hmm.
when you're in a job and you're going the job search process, you only have to find one job and you're kind of done. Mm-hmm. You know, nobody wants to be perennially out of work constantly on that hustle. looking for the next gig and the next gig and the next gig. That's exhausting. Mm-hmm. And at some point, some of it's gonna say, well, forget it, I'm just gonna go leave and get a corporate job Because it is a lot easier.
And the other thing that you do when you recreate that kind of role, like, I hate subcontracting. It's like, it makes me crazy because if you give control over how you set up work to somebody else, like you really don't have a business and you're not even really being a strategic partner or whoever you're helping. Mm-hmm. you do all of this where you're actually making less money. It may feel like you're making more money, but you're not, or you think you have more freedom.
You're working the same amount of hours without any colleagues. really that are your colleagues. Mm-hmm. without any career opportunities. and without all of the other stuff. So it's like, it's the worst of all worlds. Yeah. From my perspective. Yeah. Other people might like it. If you like it, cool. Like, I don't judge you, it's awesome. But from my standpoint, I didn't leave my corporate job. I was a senior leader at Walt Disney World. I had a great career.
I had many opportunities I could take in my career anywhere If I wanted that, I would've stayed there. But instead I wanted to have control and freedom and all those other things. Yeah, there is that illusion that will get control and freedom from going out on our own, right. But if we really think about, if we don't have some of the things you're gonna talk about in place, that we just have created a job without benefits and without add upside. So, all right.
let's get to how you help clients make that mindset shift. well, the first things first is we really talk about like, what kind of business you really wanna start, and get clear that you're starting a business, you to me, the way I help my clients is it's more of an action learning kind of thing. It's not like I just sit there and say, all right, well your mindset's gonna shift. It's like, your mindset's gonna shift as we do certain things. Mm-hmm. as we clarify who your ideal client is.
that's a starting point because then you're gonna get clear of like, oh, okay, I have a business that's supporting somebody specific rather than here's my expertise.
Like, that's where the flip is, when you're looking for a job like the spotlight, it is on you and all of your expertise when you build a business, the spotlight's on your ideal client, for you when you were making this shift is you are a corporate person you had all this legal IP advice, but you decided I wanna help women experts, and there's a bigger why.
So you get really clear on that and that starts creating that shift, And then I work with my clients through like, no, how they're gonna stand out in the marketplace and then we work on their website. When you have your website, that helps you start thinking about like, okay, I have to really work on. marketing system. And I have to start thinking about bigger picture, like what's my online platform that's just like a brochure kind of website.
So the mindset changes, like I'm not a believer of mindset changing. I just sit there in isolation. My mindset changes, and then I could do actions. I believe that as you do actions with intentionality, here's my mindset gap, like if I have a money issue, we're gonna have an actual tangible thing. Like, okay, let's talk about your website. and how do you wanna set it up and what's the money you're gonna leave on the table? And we work on it from that standpoint.
there's like the action learning kind of things. And then there's advice I might give along the way. Like number one, there's many ways that you could set up your business, but I think you need to have business money separate and personal money, a wall between the two so that you start thinking about the profitability of your business and thinking about like, I'm gonna get a salary out of it. and that's gonna go over here, but sometimes people kinda like lump it all together.
Yes. Like I have, have a client who sent me a, a spreadsheet from a different form that she was working on, on how to figure out how much to charge different than weight that I would set it up. Mm-hmm. And they included like, here's all my personal expenses and here's all my other things and this is how much money I have to make. I'm like, no, your personal expenses are over there. you have to put a wall, like there's a wall between the two. Mm-hmm.
So that you can look at your business profitability separately from here's my income. Well, let's stick into that cuz I do think people get really hung up on that. And, first decade of my business, freelancing everything that I collected from my clients was errands and that's how I paid the mortgage and sent the kid to school and that was it. And there wasn't, This business in the middle with me getting payroll.
tell us about how do you work with your clients to, when you have someone like an Erin who just has their money come in and is not thinking about whether or not it's profitable, whether or not actually have a profitable business, do my offerings make sense? Is the way on building make sense? would I be better off just going back in house? what are the steps to, helping them think through that?
First off, I would never suggest if somebody really feels like next step in their big calling is to be a business owner. Mm-hmm. I would never say you need to burn those bridges. the only way that you're gonna be successful over the long term is to be committed to being successful. Well over the long term. Mm-hmm. And you're never gonna figure it out right at the gate. So the first thing I would say to you is like, of course you approach it that way, no harm, no foul.
the secret to your long term success is like you try some things out and you kind of pivot and you go, it's not a problem, if you're, depending on how you set things up. To, if you wanna have it mixed, like some people like to have it mixed and that is a way to do it, I believe, in the firewall. But the key would be is like I would be asking you how are you investing in your business and what kind of return are you looking at? And there's other ways that you would price your services.
Like if you're not making enough money, From your services, like, well, we need to look at your products and services and how you're framing ' em up. are you setting up? a lot of coaches do this is they set up their business in this hourly type of thing. where it's like, okay, well I have my one hour package, that's a couple hundred dollars. I have my eight package, one where it breaks it down $150 a coaching session, and that kind of thing. Like, well, you're never gonna scale that one. Right.
And that's not interesting. I would probably say, all right, Aaron, Let's talk about your ideal client and let's talk about what the problem that you're solving. Let's talk about who they're turning to, to solve those problems and where the gaps are. And let's frame up a very interesting signature program. Mm-hmm. That would have a variety of different elements that would be of more value.
So it's like, we wanna look at it from that angle and we wanna look at like, well, what are your profit goals? So if you wanna make, let's say, a hundred thousand dollars a year and you think your average price per client is X and it's like, okay, so I need to create a $5,000 program. It's like, well, what would we need to include to make this a $5,000 program? It could include X number of coaching sessions. It can include a membership forum.
It could include an online, Course it can include on-call access, which by the way is high value that people undervalue. Mm-hmm. And people don't do this “on-call trusted advisor” because they're worried that people are gonna take advantage of you Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But it's high value. Like I could call you when I need to, maybe you include office hours or maybe you include live retreats, and all of that is $5,000. So, for example, I worked with a girl named Rachel. She's a dating coach.
She was initially starting off with like, I'm gonna kind of do this, and it's like, no, let's create your program. and her program includes an upfront assessment, and a certain kickoff in-depth coaching session around X, Y, and Z. Then she has X number of coaching calls. Then she has the dating profile review included in the program, and then of course, adding in those special bonuses. And it's all about how you frame it, and that's a scalable offer. That's interesting.
Now people are gonna be like, oh, okay, I'm willing to pay more because of the return. Okay. Got it. And so when you use the term investments, like what does that mean specifically? I mean, in coaching and, other types of human resources. Like what, what does that mean? Investment. I think everything that you do for your business, you need to think about it as so, so you could look at the profit equation and say there's revenue minus expenses equals profit.
Mm-hmm. But when I think when you're a business owner, there's some things that are just like expenses you might say. It's like for example, I use Cajabi as my platform. And I could look at it as a straight cost, or I think about like, well, what does Cajabi offer that allows me to scale? So Cajabi is like a all-in-one kind of platform.
So I get my website, I have my email marketing, I have my landing pages, I have my courses, and all of this is in one place, So if I'm spending like 150 bucks a month on Cajabi, I'm spending less if I were gonna do all of those things separately. But I'm also spending less time because everything's all in one place. But then I have all my tools that are there, if I can master, like getting into Cajabi allowed me to go from just mentoring people to creating websites. Mm-hmm.
And to working on pipelines and helping people with courses because I learned how to do this myself. So every time I get a bill from Kajabi, every time I see it, every month, I feel happy. Like, yes. because I know I'm investing. Mm-hmm. Or you might invest in a virtual assistant, you so, you think about the time you might spend. So here's an example with a virtual assistant.
So I wound up, signing up for, Working with different organizations and if you think about like how much they might charge so you can get some VAs from other parts of the world for like $9 an hour, I don't know what the US prices are. Mm-hmm.
so just do the math let's say you're gonna work on a P D F, like in Canva or something, it might take you 10 hours, but if you think about it from your salary standpoint and how much you're worth per hour, this could be like a $10,000 P D F. if you have a va, it's like way less. Mm-hmm. So When you're a business owner, you have to think about money differently and your relationship with money is different and you have to spend the money first in order to get the return. Got it.
Everything that you do, it's so if you're thinking like, oh my gosh, I don't have a lot of money. Like when I first started my business, I was going through a horrible divorce. I lost all my money, all of it. I had $200 in the bank and my grandmother had passed not that long ago, not long be around that same time, and she left me, I don't remember exactly how much, but it was like, It was enough to cover my initial business expenses. Mm-hmm.
I could have taken that money and lived for like six months, you know, and I could have lived off of that, or I took that money and I paid for mentoring so I could learn the skills I needed to learn as a business owner. Mm-hmm. I invested in a website and you'd dep appreciate this, and I invested in content creation from the get go. Mm-hmm. So I invested in. getting articles, and I invested in learning how to create videos.
And from that standpoint, I grew my business at that point, literally from zero. I mean, I guess you could say 200 s, not zero, but let's just say zero to 300,000 in the first 18 months. Mm-hmm. And it's like my mindset changed, like when I was standing in front of my first opportunity I had right after I launched my website. I had a client who really wanted to work with me. Like they handed me a proposal and say, meter beat this, this job's yours. And it's like, you know what?
I, I saw myself differently. I took a step back and I said, again, I was like really in the hole, and I was a single parent at the time. Mm-hmm. I looked at their proposal, I'm like, Nope, this is not what's in the best interest of the client. I gave a different proposal. It I had to think like five times more than what the competitor did. And the clients were freaking out. They're like, oh my gosh, we're gonna have to break the, to work with Betsy. And I'm like, mm-hmm.
And something came over me and this is a phrase I use all the time. Like, " No, that other person, that is an expense. It's an expense that you're gonna have. I'm not an expense to be managed. I'm an investment that will deliver a return." And they were like, "Whoa." Then they signed immediately on the spot. So it's about the mindset around like, I'm an investment. And so I have to invest in myself. I'm the product, I'm the product, I'm the service.
I have to invest in myself and then I'll get a return. That's the key is, and then you're gonna think about things more creatively. I don't know if that answered your question or not. Well, it did that, more than that. It was great. I mean, that is so interesting to me cuz I like to, talk about things like, law. You know, investing in lawyers and they're thought of as expenses. Like, okay, this is something I have to do. I don't wanna do it, but I gotta do it.
And it's risk avoidance and versus like, if you use lawyers strategically, to help you, put pieces in place that build that foundation so that you can grow. it is an investment, you know, investing in contracts, investing in content. and I have noticed in. Like proposals, like if you see something online and they'll have their prices and they'll say investment as opposed to price or cost.
And I like that because it really is just thinking about it from, okay, this is something that will have a return on investment if I do my job right. You do your job right, it's a return on this and will help your business grow. I like that you used. Just the term investment instead of expenses. Things that we could think of that way, but I think it's the wrong way to think about it. I really like that explanation. That was fantastic. Thank you.
Well, speaking of, attorneys though, like you're an unusual attorney, who's also a coach and so you, are a strategic partner. Mm-hmm. the problem that you might have is that your field on the whole is very much by the hour and very much commodity. Mm-hmm. and it's like you get into the legal situation and they don't have like a big picture plan. Mm-hmm. So the same things that I would recommend to my clients who are coaches is like, you need to have some sort of defined.
Value that you're gonna create for a client at the end. Like, so if I were gonna work with you in, maybe in a previous iteration, it's like, "Okay, I wanna protect my intellectual property." it might be you would charge me $500 an hour, boom, boom, boom. Now my money's up in three hours. Right? Or you would say, "I'm gonna help you create a body of work that is monetizable.", And let's say your package is $10,000, but it's capped. Mm-hmm.
And it's a value, and I'm gonna create a different kind of outcome. Now, I could think about it differently, but most lawyers don't operate like as strategic partners. Yeah. They set themselves up because the legal field, that's why burnout is so bad. Mm-hmm. it's like by the hour, by the hour, and the client gets to the end. Like, I never. Ever, ever charged by the hour?
Yeah. Maybe very rarely for like a one-off, like, If somebody needs like a one-off kind of thing, it's like, okay, before I sign up for this whole big program with you, like, can I just do a 90 minute session? It's like, okay, fine. Yes. Yeah, I'll do that. But never charged by the hour. Ever. Yeah. Ever. Because if you are by the hour, first off, I haven't been an hourly worker since I was, 21. Like, when was the last time I was an hourly worker?
Right. You know, like, I'm not gonna go back and be an hourly worker ever. But when you're talking about, your mindset, it's your mindset influences the clients. Like, I'm an investment and therefore I'm gonna encourage you to be an investment. the thing that gives clients happiness is like, oh, you're promising a, transformation. that's different than I'm going to do X, Y, and Z and methodology. Methodology. Mm-hmm.
So you help people think about the way that they're pricing they're offering in terms of outcome versus inputs. I help them think about the value that they create so they can own their worth and they can price properly. Mm-hmm. Based on the transformation that they're gonna create for the clients. That's meaningful to the clients. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. And then they invest themselves in themselves properly in order to deliver on that. I have a good story about the hourly.
So, I worked with, IP-based businesses for many, many years. And, one of my big clients is in the market research phase. and then someone had gone over to another market research place and they're like, "Oh, I've worked with other lawyers, I have to explain everything to them, takes them forever to figure it out. I know that you know exactly how to do this well." I did. And it took me no time to, like, I. I can do this in my sleep. I can fix your problem completely in an hour.
And I was charging by the hour, you and I fixed the problem immediately because I'd been doing what they needed for 10 years so my reward for that was, getting almost nothing. So So if you were a more junior person, it would take you in 20 hours and you would've made more money. Right. So you're penalizing yourself rather than if you can get it done an hour. Right. I just did an interview with an executive on my podcast.
I knew he was saying like a lot of consultants are looking at like, here's the economic value. And he is like, you gotta understand the return on time. so in some ways is like, well I can take five hours to do this and it's gonna cost a less price, I'll get it done in an hour. And you could charge the premium for the speed, right? Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. No, it, it is a tough one.
And, you work with men and women, but for many women have trouble feeling like they're overcharging for things like this, like, I know that I could get that done, like, and be done by, time for lunch and how can I charge for that? but at the end of the day, what is the value to the client is really what matters there. So, I think men and women both struggle with, like, especially if you're a knowledge worker, and you're getting paid for your expertise, it's very hard to put a price tag on.
Mm-hmm. I see. Men and women equally struggle with that whole thing. But I think what women struggle with more is if somebody doesn't have money, then they feel bad for 'em, where men don't care that much. women are like, oh, okay, well I, guess I'll discount it because I like you and I wanna help you, or Yeah. Let me do this for you for free. Like, we're much more codependent mm-hmm. From that standpoint.
And men are really good at like, this is part of my paid program, and men are more aggressive in asking for the sale, more than, than women could be. Mm-hmm. Oh, interesting. do you, do you group coaching or are they all individual? I just launched a group coaching experience. So I take people like through that whole transition, from like, I have an idea, I wanna launch it, I wanna move into this thought leadership space. So I do, there's some stuff that just requires one-on-one kind of stuff.
So I do a lot of v i P days, like brand messaging kind of stuff, wording, copywriting and all that kind of stuff. that's more like one-on-one. Mm-hmm. And it's not really something that lends itself to a group, but I've been very passionate about bringing groups together. Mm-hmm. Because of the power of being with other people who are in the same place that you are, the learning, and it's been really powerful. So I started this Purpose to Profits Academy, is what I call it.
And the promise here is like, we're gonna get into really actionable kind of training to help you develop all the skillsets that you're gonna need over time. Because as. a consulting, a coaching business owner, you have to learn the skills. You didn't learn it, you know? Mm-hmm. If you were in corporate and how do you learn these skills? How do you learn copywriting? How do you how to write a headline? Mm-hmm. Or a sales page, or how do you price yourself or how do you create a proposal?
All those things. And it's been really powerful. I just launched it a few weeks ago. And it's already been amazing. Like the clients are able to bring the specific things to the table that they have questions on. And don't just trust my opinion, like hear all the other support and the transformations that are really cool. I love it. Does, is that open enrollment or do you have like a, cohort that goes together at the same time? No, it's an open enrollment.
Okay. I decided it, this was like a passion project I just launched. It's, only like 2 97 a month. Mm-hmm. And it's weekly coaching. Like right now the price is gonna be at that point. Mm-hmm. I wanted to keep the price low because I wanna have like purpose-driven consultants and coaches together. And so I deliberately kept the price low and building those actionable skills. So we have weekly masterclass where it's like we have a content and then we have hot seats and conversations.
More content. Mm-hmm. It's pretty cool. So people self-select in as purpose driven, like what if you just wanna make money? is that an opt place for you? Or, I'm not really the best fit because my belief is that the most sustainable, most scalable, most profitable business is the one that's aligned to who you are. and your passions. Like it's, if you're a mid-career person, like what's the point? If you just wanna make money, go somewhere else. Like, I'm not your girl.
If you wanna make money doing what you love, I'm your girl, but I don't really wanna help. I feel like it's unethical in the consulting coaching space, to be honest. Mm-hmm. like, I'm not trying to be judgy on other people, if that's the way they wanna do it. Mm-hmm. when you think about the sacred role of a consultant or coach, like we help ignite transformation in either organizations or people. So let's say I'm a consultant and I go into an organization that might be struggling.
If I'm just in it for the paycheck, I'm not gonna take all of the issues seriously that. Employees and customers are gonna tell me, and I'm not doing justice. Like you can't invite people to focus groups and ask them to bear their souls and not take what they're telling you with, reverence it would be saying, do you wanna go to a doctor who's just in it for money without caring about the patient? Mm-hmm.
do you wanna hire a coach who just wants to get famous, or do you wanna have a coach who cares about helping you? To me, the purpose-driven is an alignment with the client-centric, like a purpose-driven. Mm-hmm. Client-centric service, they're all the same. You cannot have a purpose-driven business if you don't have somebody that you actually care about helping. Like when I talk to you on my podcast About. Intellectual property, you are right away.
Like, I wanna help people who are experts and I wanna help women because I believe that women are all about, wealth in the hand of women, hands of women is going to make a difference in society. And so of course if I have all these options, like why would I go to someone who just like, oh, I'm a really smart. intellectual property attorney, please, here's my $500 an hour rate.
Or do I wanna have someone that's like, wow, you really care about me, you care about my intellectual property, you care about me having wealth so that I could give back to the world. Mm-hmm. and even planting the seed around how am I gonna give back to the world? why would I ever wanna go to anyone else? Yeah. I agree that, and that's nice. and they'll coming at it from that point of view as a group that they're all on the same page about that and making sure that they're helping people.
I love that. So is there anything new in 2023 that you're seeing this different, you've been doing this, I think you said 15 years, what's on the horizon in who's coming outta corporate now and how is it different from the people who are coming outta corporate pre pandemic, maybe. actually, those are two different questions that are kind of related.
For people who are coming outta corporate right now, I think it's just we're seeing the residuals of the whole pandemic, post pandemic and people wanting more balance in their lives and, organizations. I've seen a difference in the past. I would say there was a shift in 2008 and there's a shift now, before 2008. you had like this many customers and this many employees in it kind of match.
Mm-hmm. 2008 with a recession's, like okay, customers dropped off, then they dropped employees, and then when customers started coming back, they kept employees like this. Mm-hmm. And so now employees were working 2, 3, 4 jobs. in the past. And there was no time to think and all of that. And then I think with the pandemic, it accelerated that whole thing the workloads are crazy, but then it's like companies are navigating the virtual workforce versus the live workforce.
And I think that there's a shift from that standpoint. So I think that people are coming out. Are a little bit like battle fatigued. They're a tight, like in 2020, a lot of people are really energetic. Like, okay, I'm gonna take charge of this. I'm gonna invest in my website, all of this Right now, people have more economic uncertainty, there's more fear, and I think there's just a collective soul exhaustion. Mm-hmm. That's at a different level now.
Like, so I think that from that standpoint, as it relates to business development, My favorite obsession. I'm obsessed with ai. I'm obsessed with chat. G P T I just discovered it yesterday, like literally yesterday. Like I've made it my, little assistant, you you know, my husband walks by and he's laughing. He is like, watching me, with chat G P T, and it's like, no, that's not what I want.
I want this, you and I'm learning how to make chat, G B T B, my junior copywriter, oh, and my junior content creator, like talking about ip. that's actually an issue for you. it's like if people are creating a body of work, how do you differentiate between what chat cheap PTs creating versus what you're creating? But it's fascinating. I could say, I could write something, I'm like, Hey, could you rewrite this in the voice of Betsy And it, does my voice, I'm like, This is weird.
how do you know my voice? So you fed it like your past writings, and then it kind of goes, okay, this is the way she generally write. How does it. It knows my writings. I did something, I played around with it once. It was like I took something I was working on. I'm like, can you rewrite this in The Voice of Betsy Jordan? And then I did that, and then it's like, you and I both know Carol Cox. So I'm like, can you rewrite it in The voice of Carol Cox?
So speaking your brand and then rewrote it in Carol's language. And I was like, oh, that's so weird. I was like, little shifts between the two of us. like, this is fascinating. it's very fascinating. Even little things like, Hey, can you give me a script on how to confront my adult daughter who's living with me now and, how to ask her to help me know, clean up more. it's like, oh, well, and then it would just gimme a little script. I'm like, ah, this is pretty good, Mm-hmm.
I think that that's gonna be a trend that we need to be paying attention to. I think that's gonna really shake up the marketing world and the content creation world in a very big way.
Yeah. the reason it even came across my, desk, so to speak, because I To me, AI was just way outside of, I'm like, ah, I can't, after I was doing a legal M C L E, you know, training about the impact of ai, like the legal implications of ai, and they're describing all the things it could do, I'm like, it could do that. It could do that. So immediately had to go on like, yeah. And so now I'm obsessed too. I spent the afternoon, on chat, G P t. Oh my God.
I asked Zach chat, g b t before our interview. I'm like, what are some good questions I could ask Aaron on my podcast. And it's like, Aaron Austin is an attorney and a business strategist who does X, Y, and Z. and so he gave me a bunch of ideas like, you what inspired you to become an an intellectual property attorney? Have you always worked for yourself or did work for a firm? what is intellectual property? what's the best way? It had all kinds of questions.
Like I didn't necessarily ask you those questions. Mm-hmm. But it's like, that was an interesting starting point. one of the things that came out during this training is because lots of law firms have already started using it, and Before we even really heard about it, cuz they use it for document production and, doing due diligence and all this stuff what it will be is like, you know, will it replace lawyers? It's like, well no, but lawyers who don't use it will be at a massive disadvantage.
And that it may even be that it could be, you malpractice not to use it. Because what if you miss something, if you've got a thousand documents to look at and you use people instead of AI and you miss something, it's at malpractice. So, and I imagine. In other industries, because you can be more efficient and maybe, perform more quickly, more accurately, maybe charge less, that if you're not using it, that it will be a disadvantage.
it's like someone not having a website if you're not using ai, you know? I think that that's interesting, because there's two flip sides. Like you can't really replace the expertise, but I worry that it's gonna make us dumb. I spent a lot of time thinking about like our interview. Mm-hmm. And what I wanted to talk about. obviously I approached you in the beginning to say, I want you on the show for a particular reason.
But the creative process of trying to figure like, okay, what is it that I wanna say? is a risk factor, but that's a big thing. that's coming up. the initial point of this particular podcast is all around like, thinking about profit and how to, think about profit from a scale standpoint is it does create more efficiencies. Mm-hmm. So that allows you to scale and if you don't have money to invest in assistance or if you are using assistance, it allows you to do that. I like that.
Well, you did touch on like the AI. And IP and the conflicts there. But when you're working with your clients, and I know, developing thought leadership and content is part of what you help them do. do explicit questions about intellectual property come up? Like what are they thinking about building IP assets? Are they thinking about that journey from hourly to exit? what, happening around those issues? I look at everything like in a five step, you and I are process people. Mm-hmm.
so To me, there's like five phases of your business. First, it's you gotta start the right business, then you gotta figure out your brand messaging position and your website and getting your website situated. And then you need to be in some sort of process where you know how to convert clients. And then the ultimate place is that thought leadership. Mm-hmm. Because that is where you scale and there's no other way to scale without content.
there's no way that you're gonna be a premium brand position. You can't raise your fees because without content you're not gonna look like that expert. if without content, you can't really show up on social media. You can't really stand out. I have some clients who are naturally inclined in that way, but most of my clients are a little bit afraid of intellectual property of the vulnerability, you this is where the whole transition from corporate to this kind of stuff.
It's like, well, I put my ideas out there. Like, I remember the first time I was creating videos, it was like, I was overwhelmed. Like my first video guy, I'll never forget this whole thing I went to, his place and I wound up staying with him and his wife, and before I left, he's like, okay, you're be doing scripts. you're gonna be doing scripts to the teleprompter. I'm like, no, no, no, Chad, I don't do that. Like, I'm just gonna be on the cuff. You know, I'm gonna be on the flight.
And he's like, no, no, no, you're gonna do that. I'm like, Okay, fine. So I got there and I wrote some scripts. So I go downstairs and I read my script to him and he records and he is like, Nope, this is terrible. Go back up. I'm like, ah, okay. So I go back up and then I write another one. He is like, no, this is still terrible. Go back up. And then I come back down. He is like, okay, this is good. And I wrote like seven different scripts. We were hoping for three videos.
Mm-hmm. But once I got three. Videos up. I was able to get like seven that day. I learned something at that particular point, like how to quickly manifest the ideas. when my website launched, like I was landing clients, from other parts of the world, like people, I never met six figure engagements because of the power of my content. Wow. Because I had videos, because I had all of this.
So my whole global business is built on content, so, Content is essential, but the questions that I would ask like first, people have to be ready for it. But where the source of your content is, it's not even just in your formal business experience mm-hmm. Is in your personal experience. So we work on what's your story and like, what's your big idea? I have a client who is a cancer survivor, and at the same time when she had cancer, her dad had cancer and he had passed.
And so she's already been a productivity kind of person. Mm-hmm. But this experience ignited her. It's like, We don't have time to waste with inefficiencies. We need to get our work done fast so we can go live our lives. And so when she works on content, it's not like, okay, let's just talk about productivity. Mm-hmm. It's talk about let's say somebody might say well, what are five ways that you can maximize? how the service delivery or something like that. Mm-hmm.
Like, and the reason why this is so important is, just keep reinforcing this big idea. Yes. There's a story behind why wealth in the hands of women is important. Mm-hmm. if you're creating content, there's always like that reiteration of this bigger picture. it's not just about creating a body of work, it's about creating wealth so that you can give back to the world, right? Mm-hmm. And keep bringing it back to that point.
That's what I, I didn't do when I started my content and now my content is really clunky. So with my clients, I call it your controlling idea. Kind of like your thesis of your paper. Mm-hmm. Have clarity on your thesis so that everything that you write about supports that main point. That's very nice. Well, this is a very meta podcast, I like to say. So it is about for female founders of F businesses who are building a business that they can hopefully sell someday.
So do you have future plans for your business that may include selling? Yeah, my husband keeps talking about this one. I would love coaching on that one because it's hard for me to visualize, like, how would I sell? my business when it's so tied to my personality. Mm-hmm. So that would be like, of course, who wouldn't want that at some point? I don't see myself retiring ever at a point, but the idea of having that opportunity, but I can't visualize it.
So that's where I would refer to someone like you. Like, paint a picture for me. What would that look like? Well, I like to say that the things that help you scale your business are the same things that would help you sell your business in the future. So things that are decoupling the income from you, Betsy, you know, putting in the work.
So developing frameworks, developing courses, having maybe additional coaches on, you know, who could, run the business after you, or having something that, if an. Bigger coaching company, Johnny, you know, tiny Robbins came over and said he wanted to buy your, framework to have something that you could sell. But those are the same things that you are doing anyway to grow your business today. So, You're laying them foundations for that already. That's it. That's a such an interesting picture.
Mm-hmm. that would be an interesting, this thing to see is more like how do you paint that picture of what would it look like? Mm-hmm. For to sell a personal business. Franklin Covey did it, you know? they're not alive anymore. I'm sure Marshall Goldsmith's gonna have the same thing. He's got a legacy business. Brene Brown probably has a legacy business. Oh, I'm sure. Uhhuh. But it's like how to see yourself in that same way. Yeah. you're a parent.
So we can look at our businesses as raising children that are going to be independent from us someday. Like how can this kid possibly be independent from us? But if we're raising them correctly then they will go on and succeed without us. think of it a little bit that way too. So, Interesting. All right, so you've mentioned your new, group coaching, program that you have launched Evergreen.
So where can people find you, and if there is, freebie or something that you like people to sign up for, so my website is www dot Betsy Jordan and Jordan's with an Y, not an a. There's, you'll have Be People. Yes. Thank you. There's a Betsy Jordan with an A out there who gets all my emails, dot com. so that's my website so you can find out more of my services. So if you go to that same U R L, but add services. So I have my signature coaching program, which is like my brand messaging.
That's the one that everybody goes through if they're working with me more extensively. And that's really getting clarity on your, ideal business model, how you fit into the marketplace, how you stand out in the marketplace. And to me, that's the part where I've leaned in where other business mentors like gloss over, that's the really important foundational thing. and if you wanna find the academy, you just, betsy jordan.com/academy. Super fun.
this is like my fun play area, you the other part's, like it's hard work, you I make my clients work cuz it's like a lot of contemplation, pulling stuff out. but I got a ton of freebies, so if you go under free resources, I have free templates, tools, I have a script on, how to articulate what you do. I have a, eCourses for free where I collected some of my content on, Imposter syndrome, like a lot of people deal with imposter syndrome. So I have the cure for imposter syndrome.
It's a little mini course where I've collected my podcasts and some interviews and stuff like that. So that's a starting place there. So there's lots of freebies on my website. You can go to my YouTube channel. There's a ton over there. Or my Enough already podcast. That's another passion project. my two fun things, like obviously I still love Mike branding. I love branding so much because it's like, bringing in the inside of somebody out. Mm-hmm. But it, it is a lot of work.
So my play areas is my podcast The Enough Already Podcast and the Purpose to Profits Academy is more like my play areas. Well, since you brought up imposter syndrome, I'm just gonna ask this quickly. So I have this theory that consultants, experts, don't think that they are ready for ip. Like, the big people. and to think that I'm ready for IP is maybe an imposter syndrome issue. do I have anything there? Oh, for sure.
I think imposter syndrome hits every single time you're hitting a step change in your career. So to me, imposter syndrome is like, okay, do I have what it takes? Do I have what it takes? Well, that's because you're really dealing with the fear of the unknown. I've never done it before. it's like I don't really necessarily know how to do it, but I think what, I like what you say that is a good cure for the imposter syndrome. Well, first off, you have to normalize it. Mm-hmm.
And you have to say like, imposter syndrome is actually the part that makes you wanna crawl under bed and never come out again. If you flip it into the light attribute, it's your integrity saying, I don't wanna make a promise that I can't deliver. I don't wanna do some of that. Like, it's not just about the fear of rejection or the vulnerability, but it's also like there's an integrity element.
So, from imposter syndrome standpoint is like first off, you have to acknowledge it and you have to appreciate it. it's just trying to keep you safe, it's not a bad part of you. Like I'm absolutely not a fan when people would say all the chatter in your head. It's like, it's a gremlin, you need to eradicate. I'm like, well, that's a part of you. And if you eradicate, if you try to suppress the, bad part, you're gonna suppress the good part.
And the good part is, I still have a vision for something bigger than where I'm at right now. So if you're worrying about intellectual property there's some part is like you normalize it, and you understand, well, what does it need? And it's like, well, maybe it needs someone like you who can help draw out of them. Or someone like me, we could draw out of you what your intellectual property is invalidate that. This is interesting. Mm-hmm.
and the thing is me, with ip, Is, I know I'm doing good IP or is when I'm the learner, there's a lot of times like I'm not creating ip, I'm channeling ip. Mm-hmm. and it's like when I'm channeling the ip, that's the interesting stuff. Mm-hmm. So then it's like, I just did a podcast on decoding the profit puzzle. You the difference between stable profits, sustainable profits, and scalable profits. And they're different kind of thing.
And it hasn't really gotten like huge hits cause I think people like hearing more from me about like strengths and how to communicate value. Mm-hmm. But still I have that mindset, but even though if it didn't perform as well as maybe all the other ones, like I learned something very different. Right. That really prepped me for our conversation is I'm very clear on the difference between this the scalable thing. Mm-hmm. Okay. That I never really thought about.
Like I was all about the sustainable, I want predictability, stable profitability is one, but sustainable. Like, I wanna be in this over the long term, but it's like having that new vision. so it's like creating that podcast, it's like, okay, fine. it's not my best. It's not gonna be like my seminal one, but I learned something.
Yeah. And I think if I were gonna talk to anybody, Who's listening about the imposter syndrome is, I would go back to what you say is you have stuff in your head, you just have to manifest it. Mm-hmm. In order to make intellectual property. Mm-hmm. Right. But I think that the other thing is, is that you're the first learner. It's interesting for you, it'll be interesting for other people.
And if you just go and put stuff out there, like the beauty about intellectual property, especially if you do a blog or a podcast YouTube channel, like there's always another day, right? You know? Or it's like, okay, well that one was a bust, or like that one was a hit.
You never know what's gonna be a hit, but go with what's interesting, you And you'll learn, say, the fastest way to continue to develop your expertise is to create more content around it, doing research around it, putting it out into the world, getting feedback on it. not only the perception of your expertise, but the actual increase of your expertise, from continuing to create. there's like a book I would recommend is, I would recommend Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, if you wanna get over it.
so what, Elizabeth Gilbert says is, ideas are energetic forms that are waiting to be manifest. And they're looking for a human collaborator to make it manifest. if you don't say yes to the idea, the idea's gonna move on to somebody else. Yeah. And so it's like at the ideas. Is like almost a separate entity that you could do a little dance with, then it's fun. It's like I'm having a relationship with my ideas. Mm-hmm.
It's not like, oh, it's so attached to me, and it's like, oh, okay, this is my ideas. Mm-hmm. It's like, no, the idea is separate from me and I'm having fun with it, and I'm just bringing it to life. Like again, I. The best content is gonna be the one that you channel not necessarily create. Mm-hmm. So the more you're in your head, the less interesting it's gonna be for you and for your audience. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Agreed. All right. Nice little bonus at the end there. Thank you so much, Betsy.
Thank you, Erin. It was so much fun being on your show, and I'm so excited about what you do. I'm fascinated by everything that you say and I cannot recommend you enough to anybody who's working on, really monetizing their body of work. You have the right heart, the right mind, you've got the whole package. So thank you for having me on the show. Well, thank you. This has been a joy.