Hello, and welcome to Save You production of iHeartRadio, I'm Any.
And I'm Lorn vocal Bam, and today we have an episode for you about Kevin Bert.
Yes, was there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Nope, I think I was.
We hadn't done a cheese episode in a minute, and we love doing cheese episodes, and this was one of the ones that we have not done before, and I love it. I think I purchased some for a cheese played a couple months ago, and you know, why not?
Why not? We do love our cheese episodes. It's funny to me how many times we do them, and somehow there's still billion much to talk about with the specific cheese and all other cheeses. But yeah, this one we were discussing before we started recording. How to a lot written about it, a lot of reading today.
Yeah, this was one of the ones where I was like, well, I could keep reading about Canon beer for another couple of days, but I don't have that kind of time, So I'm going to I'm going to stop. I'm going to assume that what I have written down in my notes already is accurate enough for podcast work.
Yes, but it continue.
If you want to learn more and you're somebody who's more an expert than us, oh yeah, there's plenty more out there for you.
Yes, if you want to dive deep into the microbiology of Canon Bear, you can.
You can, and we would love to hear from you after you do. I know I've had camm beer. I feel like this's impossible. I wouldn't have had it, but I can't recall. I do love Brie, and Brie and Cam and Bear are often put in the same conversation. So I am determined to get it. I looked for it. My local grocery store didn't have it, so I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to branch out, but I am determined. We also talked about how we both got cravings just when we were discussing the topic.
Yeah, every single helpful photo on a website just really increased the craving.
I was like, oh no, oh dear.
It was bad. That was before we even chose it. It was just one of the possibilities. Here we are. Well, you can see our past cheese episodes for more, maybe specifically Breede, but all of them. All of them are in the mix. Sure, and that brings us to our question, camm bert, what is it?
Well, Well, Camembert is a type of soft cheese made from cow milk with a bloomy white rind that's sort of toothsome tender, and a creamy yellow interior that's basically just melting at room temperature. Its flavor is savory and a little buttery, fruity and a little funky sharp, like mushrooms and earth and must It comes in small wheels just about five inches across and a couple inches high. That's maybe twelve by five centimeters, weighing just about nine
ounces or two hundred and fifty grams. Traditionally wrapped in coated paper and then packaged into a pressed wood box, often in a cylinder shape to match the cheese. It's most often served as is as a table cheese, like in a cheeseplate sort of situation. You know, maybe some bread or crackers and other accompaniments like fruit, nuts, pickled veg.
What have you.
But you can bake it with seasonings like herbs, spices, or maybe jams or honey to make it even more tempting and guey, or use it on sandwiches, or maybe to make like a cheesy sauce for pasta or vegetables or whatever you want to put a cheese sauce on, which is everything probably right right, Yep, it's really good if you enjoy slightly funky cheeses. Camm Beert is like it's like if you could take a stone from a cellar and make it just buttery, spreadable.
I like that. I do really like that kind of mushroomy, earthy taste and cheese. Yeah.
Oh it's so.
Good m hm.
But okay.
The term canon Beert can be applied to cheese is made in the style anywhere by anyone in pretty much anyway. But there is a protected designation of origin for cam and Beert that has made tradition only in Normandy, France, which is where the cheese is from. A true Camembert de Normandy and that is what will be on the label has to be made in one of four regions in Normandy where they have the right grassland for the cows.
The cow herds have to be at least half made up of the Normandy breed, which has been bread for milk production. Like it's a little bit higher in protein than usual, super tasty. There are regulations about how the cows must be grazed and fed, like eighty percent of their food has to come from the farm that they live on. They have to feeld grays for over six months a year. The milk obtained is kept raw, that
is unpasteurized. And yes, that means that any Camumbert that you have had in the United States is not de normandy because we've got a ban on import of raw milk cheeses here.
But anyway, there's regret here.
But anyway, once that cow is milked for the Camumbert de normandy, you've got seventy two hours to make the milk into a.
Cheese that is ready to be matured.
And cheese very basically is what we do to milk to preserve it and make it fun. And we do this by getting a lot of the water out in this case, not like too much water, So okay, you start by getting the nutritious and tasty stuff and milk, that is, the fats and the proteins to clump together, and these will be your curds. Camembert is curdled using renent, which is an animal protein that occurs in calves that
helps them digest milk. And you've also got a boost here from naturally occurring lactic acid bacteria that are just hanging out I mean in the dairy, but also all around us, all the time, everywhere. Together, rennet and lactic acid bacteria change the pH of the milk, making it more acidic, which makes it curdle, leaving you with solid
curds and liquid whey. The curds are cut and scooped out of the way and layered into these small individual moles, gently being allowed to drain for a bit between each layer to get more way out.
They're not pressed.
Into the molds as many cheeses are, but rather like allowed to drain slowly, mostly under their own weight, for at least eighteen hours, and that gentle treatment helps preserve the moisture levels and the soft texture of the kurds.
Once they're firm enough, they're turned out of the molds and moved to a drying room, where they're turned once over a period of time to distribute the inner moisture level and allow the whole surface to dry out, and then they're moved to a maturing room, sometimes in a whole different facility run by people whose job it is to specifically mature cheeses. I didn't know that this job existed. It's called an affineur and I love this.
I love this.
I do too, right, A good job opportunity. What training do I need?
Do I need to eat cheese to do it? I think I can so okay.
In the in the maturing process, the cheese will be lightly salted and sprayed with a culture of what's going to make it develop its rind and inner texture as it ages. This specific species of mold that's named for the cheese, Penicillium camemberti. It thrives in cool, humid conditions. And part of what this friendly mold does is it breaks down the lactic acid that was produced by those friendly bacteria during the curdling, and it breaks it down
into carbon dioxide and water. And this is all happening from the outside in. But as the concentration of lactic acid inside the cheese shifts, more lactic acid will migrate to the surface and get broken down. This, in turn, will shimmy loose some of the calcium phosphate that's holding together the proteins of the cheese in the interior. That calcium phosphate will then migrate to the cheese's surface, making the interior of the cheese softer. As the cheese undergoes
all of this, it also develops its flavors. Flavor molecules involved include ones that are like cheesy and buttery, mushroomy, cabbagey, sweaty, which sounds like a weird list, but I promise it's like in a pleasant way. It is like a more challenging cheese on the palette than brie, which is a little bit like milky sweet creamy. In a more direct way, this is a little weirder, which you know again if you dig it.
Heck yeah.
As the mold grows, it also forms up into this soft, thin rind all around the exterior of the cheese with a velvety white surface. Sometimes the little bit of other color in there too, like a maybe like a little bit of rusty red or greenish blue. And for what I understand, that happens mostly in the traditionally produced cheeses that have some wild bacteria and or mold action going
in there. Kevin Bear matures for at least thirteen days before being packaged, that is a rule under the Normandy regulations, and cannot be sold under those regulations, or more specifically, cannot be delivered to customers until they're twenty two days old. I love this, Yeah, so specific right, okay, And this cheese will continue ripening in its package and we'll start to develop sharp flavors as amino acids get broken down and ammonia is released. So the idea is like, probably
eat it fresh. I mean, unless you like that kind of thing. I can't tell you what to do, though, I will say that research has shown that the optimal time to eat Cammbert is between three and seven weeks of age.
Once again, Lauren, how do we get into this research just eating cheese and rating how good it is depending on how much time has passed.
We are genuinely missing our life's calling.
Indeed, we must put things correct.
I believe in us. I think that we can make our dreams come true, our cheese dreams. The best guy, yes, but yeah so. Camonbert is often just enjoyed straight. Like you know, you just take it out of the box, let it come to room temperature, and then eat it with some bagette or you know whatever, or you could you know, put it into a tart or chiche or on a sandwich or a pizza for a little bit of French flair in there. I have seen it referred to as France's national cheese.
Yes, they seem to be very into it. Well, what about the nutrition.
You know, cheese is on purpose calorie dense food. That's the concept of preserving those, you know, tasty nutritious things. It's watch your portion sizes. It might be a treat, but treats are so nice. Cheese treats are aces.
They are difficult to watch your portions. But well, speaking of we do have some numbers for you.
We have a few.
So according to those production laws, there are currently one five hundred and seventy seven municipalities in France that are cleared to make cheese that can be labeled as Kemmbert In Normandy, them's the facts. There are a couple festivals that celebrate Kevimbert and other local cheeses around Normandy. One in kem Bremer had its thirtieth anniversary this year, having started in nineteen ninety five. It also features other protected
designation of origin products like poultry and wine. There's another in Orbec that hosts up to ten thousand people a year and includes a lot of like historical edutainment activities like demonstrations of cheese processes and lace making.
Right right.
As of twenty nineteen, Kemembert made up just over half of the total production of free type cheeses in France at eighty eight thousand, three hundred and nine metric tons, about half of which is sold in France. However, they
are into it. They're into it, They're into it. However, of that total, only about five thousand metric tons is certified Kevin bar to Normandy, it is the best selling soft cheese in France and according to one survey, some seventy French people say that it is the most emblematic French cheese.
Yeah, and there are a couple of contenders, but I would say Camembert. I can see it.
Yeah, yeah, it's it's only the third best selling cheese overall after Chevra and Comte.
Is that how you say that? Sure?
Yeah?
Great.
I don't know if the accent of you is there or not. I can't remember, but I think so it is. Yeah.
So with our powers combined, we still don't know French great.
But we're doing our best and that's what we're going to do. In the history.
Section o hoofta.
Yes we are, and we will get into that as soon as we get back from a quick break for a word from our sponsors.
And we're back.
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
So if you've listened to this show before, you're probably familiar with the basic theory about the invention of cheese. Though it does vary by region and type, it usually boils down to storing dairy and something like an animal bladder or a cave, and then agitation through movement and or time just letting time pass, and then cheese.
Yeah, yeah, through the action of right a number of friendly microbes that we wouldn't really learn about until very recently.
Yes, which is why there it's often described as an accident, like what happened here. When it comes to Cammber specifically, it is a bit of a newer cheese in the scheme of things. Normandy's climate and environment make it a good place for raising cows and therefore making cheese because camber is something of a very local and national point
of pride. As we've mentioned, there are a lot of legends about how it was invented, but one in particular gets repeated the most and here's how it generally plays out. During the French Revolution in seventeen ninety one, a priest was being hunted by angry revolutionaries in Normandy. He came across a farmer named Many Hedel, who kindly sheltered him. The priest was from the town of Bri and was familiar with making the cheese that shared the town's name.
At Chi Sea is much older than Kim and bhaeron you can see that episode. As mentioned, Hedel was also familiar with cheesemaking, having learned it from her mother as she grew up on the farm. In return for the farmer's kindness, or maybe out of boredom or cravings, he agreed to Dtaete how to make Bri But whether because of the ingredients, environment acts, or something else, they ended up making a different type of cheese that was similar to Breathe but not quite it. It was what would
become canon Bear instead. However, others point out that some evidence suggest that came and beer was recorded in the Normandy valley over a century earlier, in the sixteen eighties. It's possible that Herel and the priest improved upon the cheese in some way, but there's no substantial evidence of that. Others alleged that Herald was not from camen Bear but a village nearby, and that's a big sticking point.
For them, whatever the case. In these early days, the mold that works to mature this cheese from the outside and was just something that occurred naturally in the places where people set the cheese down to age. And as a result of this wild culture, you would have gotten slightly different flavors in every batch and different colors on the rind. Cheese like Camembert and brie would have been gray green to green blue in color until sometime in the nineteen hundreds, yes.
Okay, well, whether this is true or not exaggerated or not, soon after Harrell allegedly invented cam and beert, it had become pretty popular, though mostly it was local since it was a soft cheese and therefore difficult to transport, and we're talking really local distribution in the beginning, like Aral's friends and the nearby town and that's it. It was so local that apparently no one really gave it an
official name, which brings us to another legend. Napoleon named the cheese okay, yes, as the story goes Napoleon was passing through and someone offered him the cheese, and he loved it so much he kissed the woman who gave it to him on the cheek and named it officially after the town, or Napoleon the third did, or neither of them did, but the Napoleons do get credit for the whole thing. Yep. The Industrial Revolution made it possible
to ship camembert to other places. On top of that, we get the invention of the wooden container that was used to transport it.
Yeah.
Yeah, And like the circumstance of this cheese coming up alongside railways booming in like the mid to late eighteen hundreds absolutely influenced its popularity, Like it was suddenly a a product that people were talking about and wanted, and b it was able to be transported into city centers. It is thought that producers began selecting specifically for that Penicillium camberti strain around this time, like right around the turn of the twentieth century.
And P.
Camemberti is interesting because it's a white mutation of the types of penns Ilium that were growing wild that gave those those green blue gray colors. Researchers would isolate it in nineteen oh six from samples of Camembert cheese, and they began producing it in labs cheese science.
Yep.
Then in nineteen oh nine a bunch of producers got together and formed an association to protect and promote the traditional production of Kevinbert. The English translation is something along the lines of like the Association of Producers of True or Authentic Camembert of Normandy.
Wow, okay, mmmmm, I don't want to mess with them.
No, you don't, I really don't.
I'm not being cavalier serious, but this brings us to another legend. According to Saver, in nineteen twenty six, a New Yorker made the journey to Vitmotier, which is located near Normandy, to pay his respects Torel by laying a wreath of flowers on her grave. And he claimed the cheese Kim and Bert had cured him of his stomach ailments.
Yeah.
I read that he was a doctor and he was overseas during World War One ish and said that right, the cheese had helped him and or his patients.
Yes, he also donated twenty dollars and the Association of producers of Jude Normandy Kevinbert realized that this was a real opportunity. His donation went to a sculpture of Harel, and many speculate that this helped solidify her space in history like this, Really the legend is now what we're saying is true. The statue would eventually be destroyed during bombing and World War II.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, Normandy is a little famous for having gone through it. But the statue was rebuilt after the war. Apparently it was as a gift from this group of cheese factory workers in Ohio, and they had one of Harel made for themselves too.
Still, this cheese was pretty regional for a while, but that did change with World War One, where the cheese was popular amongst French soldiers after they got a taste of it, and once they returned home, they started asking for it and word and demand spread, and not only in France but internationally.
Yeah, I think it was part of rations for French soldiers at some point, and we've heard that story repeated about various different foods in all kinds of episodes. That attention was not all good, however, because between both World Wars and then you know all of the disruption that those brought, and then post war large dairies getting in on production. The traditional production of Camembert started fading, but that Makers Association was working on bringing it back.
Yes, they were. In nineteen eighty three, Camembert received an AOC or a controlled designation of origin, which we've talked about numerous times. However, as we said at the top, cheeses that do not follow the laid out rules for the AOC or are processed outside of Canon Beert can still call their products Camon beer. If you want the AOC product, the label reads Camon Beert in Normandy.
Yeah, the cheese received a broader European designation an AOP in nineteen ninety six. Around that same time, those larger cheese producers started challenging the rules of these distinctions, suggesting that traditionally make Camibert could just be labeled as vera tab true or authentic and allow factory made is to share that Camumbart to Norman Dy label. But they have been shut down.
Yes. In two thousand and seven, two of the biggest AOC canon beer producers in Normandy started using microfiltered milk to meet some international health standards around unpasteurized milk, which is what the traditional product calls for, and in doing so they lost their AOC label.
Discussions about this have continued around the same time and or later and or continually, like other producers were trying to use low heat treated milk and get the rule
changed to allow that. But that committee, that association is insistent, and the whole thing has been so hotly debated, like larger facilities will insist that their product is safer and therefore superior, and the smaller facilities insist that the microbiome of the milk before processing is integral to the quality of the final product, which is therefore superior.
It's great it is And speaking of hotly debated things, oh jeez. McDonald's France rolled out the temporary menu item the mc kevin Bear in twenty thirteen in France. No one was particularly happy about it.
No one.
Oh, I this was my first rabbit hole of the episode because I got to that note and I was like, oh, no, I need to know everything about this.
Yeah.
So the Guardian reported about it and quoted one Patrick Marcier, then the president of that producer association, and Furthermore, he's the head of this one like particularly renowned organic farm that produces cavin bear.
They quoted him, he said.
We feel used. They did this without consulting us, without even warning us, warning us. He does seem really cool. His farm seems really cool. I read a lot about it. But this was on the part of McDonald's. This was part of a larger release of like artisanal cheese based sandwiches in French McDonald's that year, including Comte and Raclette.
I think the concepts in general were like, okay, so, like you've got like a chewy roll and like a better than average like local burger patty, and then it's topped with like lettuce, tomato, a garlicky mayo, and a thick slice of whatever the cheese in question was, which earnestly sounds great. Yeah, like I'm mad about how much I want to be eating that right now. Totally eat
that anyway. Furthermore, apparently McDonald's in France are fancier than ours and they are the second highest grossing market for the company outside of the United States.
Oh that's fascinating. Okay one, in my experience, every other country has better McDonald's.
US, Okay, sure, yeah, but.
Two, France kind of notoriously hates McDonald's, Like that's kind of their whole look at America ruining our which I'm not get it. Don't believe me. I get it, sure, ruining like the Eifel towers here and here's the McDonald's. So I did not know that about them being such a big.
Market apparently, especially like in the past tennis years or so with initiatives like this, they've really made there.
They really made.
The French McDonald's more French, you know, like they have nicer seed and lighting.
They've got a cafe where you can.
Get real coffee products and like maclonol and stuff like that, and you know, and like they're just they're just like, oh, like you like French food, can we just can we give that to you? And they're like, yeah, sure, it's delicious, thank you.
Wow. Well, I personally I go to McDonald's every time I visit. I don't eat there, but I go in to look at their menu and see what it's all about, because I just find it very interesting. So listeners, if you have any thoughts about this or any McDonald's you've been to, I would love to know because I just in my head, I just have this association with you know, French people. No McDonald's.
Yeah, I feel like we could definitely do because we have done an episode on McDonald's, but it was mostly about the wild history of what's his name who founded it? Ray Kroc, Ray Krock you And we didn't get that far into international McDonald's sananigans.
And we absolutely could.
We could. It's an insane level of our We're gonna do it one day. But of our pizza toppic.
Crust and pizza yeah yeah, international pizza huts alone, yes, but further international pizza dealings. Yeah.
Well, listeners, please write in well. In twenty seventeen, the Google Doodle honored Hell Hell as part of as the creator of Camenbert. So they're following, They're all. In the following year, there was a push to allow all came and Beert made in France to use the label Camembert de Norman d. But there was a lot of pushback and protest against the whole thing.
Yeah, yeah, and it has been shot down as far as I'm personally aware. Then, in twenty twenty four, researchers called attention to this potential problem for the future of kem and beer production, that being the supply of Penicillium kemmberti,
that friendly mold that makes it work. The researchers found that this selected strain of penicillium doesn't have great genetic diversity because it is lab raised and it's reproduced asexually, meaning that people are producing identical clones with like no
opportunities to get new genetic material in there. A healthier population is always more genetically diverse, so this means that a labs can't produce they can produce like a relatively limited amount, so they're struggling to keep up with demand. And furthermore, like if some disease that affects this mold strain happened to break out, it could be devastating. However, science is working on it. There is ongoing research into
different strains and how they can be improved. There's also research into making plant based plant milk based cheeses using pi Kim.
And Marty So.
Cheese science, Cheese science, So cool, really cool. Cheese episodes are always fun, a little complicated, but fun. That's why we got to space them out a little. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know what would have happened to you if you had done that whole cheese show you were planning.
I would have it would have been no, no, you would have.
Gone on an internet rabbit hole and been absorbed by the internet.
The cheese continuum would have eaten me. Yeah.
Yeah, so that's good. We're we're taking our time, but they are fun. And please, listeners, let us know if you have any favorite preparations of Camembert recipes or you just eat it like it is. I think that's amazing. Yeah, but please let us know. Yeah, that's what we have to say about Camonbert for now.
It is.
We do already have some listener mail for you, though, and we are going to get into that as soon as we get back from one more quick break for a word from our sponsors.
We we're back.
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And we're back with m Earth Eat much room nice Yeah, our crode in about a couple of things. Turkish Delight, as you know, is a pretty unique confectionery and can cover a wide range of flavors and sweetness. I don't recall having anything really memorable here in the US, and it has been a while since I have seen any imported. When I was in London recently, our office did have a small box that was really good. It was a simple rosewater one,
just a slight sweetness and it was very enjoyable. Kicking myself now for not making note of the brand. Hopefully I'll find a good one here that is not too expensive. Now. I've never had Kafelta fish. I've seen the jarred, but have never heard of it being made fresh. Something I will need to look out for. Schitake mushrooms are definitely a great one to use. I try to keep dried ones available to use in broth, especially for ramen or fu.
Cooking fresh is challenging for me as I struggle to keep them from getting rubbery, but they do provide a lot of variety. Crispy cream has mostly disappeared around me, except for a few small stores that have them as an option. I personally think both Crispy and Duncan have really dropped in quality over the last five years or so. They have become the well it is a donut to me. I will look for a small bakery or local shop first.
Bring on the saison, my second favorite behind sours, and love that Unibrow teamed up with Megadeath a few years ago to do one called a toulamnd after their song of the same name. Beer episodes are always fun, informative and will bring on opinions. Now you have me wondering about a curry tree as well as always thank you for bringing us knowledge and joy. Well, thanks for listening and writing in I I love this. I actually had a tou lamonde, but yeah I have. I didn't know. Oh, I didn't know what.
I had no idea. It was in collaboration with Mega Death. There you go.
No, and Lauren and I were discussing beforehand as cheese is very a lot written about it when it comes from France, very verbose. A lot of our beer episodes are similarly complicated if they're from Germany because of tax laws and very dense, dry documents.
And just a lot of things to read about in terms of like the grain bill, like what specific ingredients are going in there and where they are from and the history of those things. And it gets like right, like in this episode about cheese, like I reached a point where I was like, okay, I have to start googling the back like the mold culture, because I need to know more about that before I can finish writing about this cheese, which is fascinating and also holy crap.
Yep, pretty much. But people have written in about their opinions about says On, so you're right about that, and we'll be hearing some of those messages coming up. But in the meantime, we got a lot of Krispy Kream messages to get through. I tell you what people have thoughts I am interested in.
I kind of.
I wouldn't say I agree with you, because it's not like I was eating at Crispy Kream or Dunkin Donuts a lot beforehand. But I feel like in my experience, a lot of more artisan are like fancy donut places opened a couple of years ago, like before the pandemic. Yeah, so I wonder if there was some kind of thing that happened where the like nice donuts that is not from these chain restaurants was having a moment. I don't know, but a good donut is, yeah, that's really good.
A great donut is really is really good, and a don't is really good.
That you write Native doughnuts, Yeah, yep.
There really is something about the hot now situation for Krispy Kreme, but also I wanted to update y'all about curry tree leaves. I think like a day or two after we recorded that episode, I ordered some food from Chai Pani and it came with what I strongly believe our little fried curry curry leaves on top. And they were so nice and it made me so happy.
Oh my gosh, you must tell me what I should order. I love Chai Panni. Oh my gosh, that made me so excited.
It was it was one of their chats. It was one of their like appetizer kind of situations. Yeah, I'll I'll remember it or pull it up on my phone and let you know.
I could. I mean, I could just get a lot of their appetizers and be really I mean, oh, they're terrific. Absolutely, yes, yes, there, I'm going to look into that. Yeah.
Shout out as always to a Marana Rani who was on our show back when we did those Ashuville episodes.
A lovely human person.
Yes, definitely, definitely.
H Christine wrote, I really really enjoyed the Torta Pasqualina episode. I'm not familiar with this version, but I'm very familiar with a sixteenth century ancestor and a sixteenth century German cousin. As you noted, Martino de Rassi aka Maestro Martino of Como wrote about a torch in the Genovese style which I have cooked. Sadly, I don't have an online recipe of this dish. I developed it for an SCA event that took place in January of twenty twenty, towards the
end of what we in Australia call Black Summer. Because most of Eastern Australia was on fire, we couldn't go outside much because of the air quality and the extreme heat. Still, with some good friends, I made four hundred individual little pies for this event, and the torte in Genevese style was very very well received. This early version contains finely chopped shard, walnuts, almonds, spices, and caviar or lumpfish row.
You can make this vegan very easily by removing the fish row with fish eggs and making the pastry with dairy free shortening. And the combination of nuts and shard is very enjoyable, and it's even better if you do include the fish row. Still, making four hundred tiny pies in forty degree Celsia's heat with the windows closed and no air conditioning is not something I recommend. It's also worth noting that at this time, tort was a lidded pie made in a shallow dish called tortillera. Let's go
with that sure. Moving in to the sixteenth century, Bartolomeo Scappies Opera included a recipe for Genovese gattafura. I don't know if you roll that are or not, Let's go with it, which consists of two flat sheets of pastry with a filling of sharred herbs and fresh cheese. This I haven't cooked, but I'm intending to very soon. Scapie
prefers it must be served warm. As for the sixteenth century German cousin I mentioned, Sabrina Welserin, who is part of a wealthy mercantile family of Augsburg, compiled a cookbook which contained a recipe for a Genovese tart. This is a lidded pie with a filling of shard fresh cheese and Parmesan cheese. It's a filling dish and great for vegetarians.
This was the first recipe of this family I cooked, and this one is documented in my cooking blog, and this includes the spectacular failure that was my first attempt. But now I have questions. How did these recipes evolve into the contemporary torta pascalina. Did Martinos torta combine with Scapi's gattafura with the fish row replaced with chicken eggs? And what, for the love of kitties is a gatta fura given that the Italian for cat is goatta or gatto. Did the cats lie on the pastry when it was
brought out of the oven. This would fit given Scapi said it should be served warm and cats were found around kitchens serving as rodent control. It's going to be interesting to see if I can one day find the answers. I will keep you updated about my cooking adventures.
Oh please do.
Oh my goodness, Yes, this is excellent.
A I have not had fish row in a pie before, and now I'm mad that I haven't.
Yeah, absolutely, because absolutely, yeah, h I love this. You're always you write in about these historical things and theories. It's so cool. But also four hundred individual little pies for in an event in those conditions. Hats up to you, friends.
Oh yeah, that's what like that's over a hundred in fahrenheit.
That's warm.
Yeah no, and cooking it like cooking pies. Like the other day, I was going to roast something and it's hot here, so I was like, no, it's just gonna make it worse.
It's gonna make it worse, and I'm gonna sweat and I'm not gonna like it. And here we are. Yeah.
No, but that sounds delicious. I'm glad it was very well received. Yes, but yes, that sounds like a whole thing. Oh, but so delightful.
All of these.
So cool.
It is cool, history is cool, pie is cool. Cats who knows? Many questions I have too? So I hope to hear from you again.
Yeah.
Yes, now I'm hungry for this thing that I still haven't eaten.
Okay, we're fine.
It always happens, Lauren, it does good time. Well, Thank you so much to both of these listeners writing and if you would like to write to us, you can or email us hello at savorpod dot com.
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