Well, hello ladies and gents. Robert Sykes, Keto savage.com and today I've got special guest David Robinson on the line. I met him at the Metabolic Health Summit this past January and he is an accomplished author. He has a pretty impressive story as it pertains to his journey through the ketogenic diet. He was diagnosed with epileptic seizures or he had epileptic seizures when he was 28 years old, followed the traditional path taking the medication.
Then he had a pretty profound awakening when he had a car accident. Decided to dive deeper and look at the ketogenic diet as a viable solution to coping and dealing with the epilepsy. And that pretty much was the catalyst for him totally turning his life around, writing the book, changing the nutritional pattern and the gist finding true health via the ketogenic diet and lifestyle. So very compelling story. Very interesting journey. Thoroughly enjoyed having him on the podcast.
I've got no doubt that you will take something from it so that further delay, sit back, relax, enjoy the conversation with David Robinson and we are live. David, how are you, Sir? Good, thanks. How are you doing today, my friend? I'm doing wonderfully well, man. So we met in person at the Metabolic Health Summit, I guess, this past January, and we were talking about a little bit everything. I think I interrupted you, honestly. You were talking with? Who were you talking with?
I believe the Keto Mojo team and I, I jumped, right? Yeah, kind of made myself part of the conversation, so my apologies. There No, no, not at all, not at all. It was great meeting you and and you know, I've been following listening to your podcast for a long time. So I felt like I was meeting a big celebrity here, you know? No, I appreciate it, man. Definitely not a celebrity, just another guy, but I I want to, I want to peel the curtain back on your story, man.
Like you've got a pretty interesting journey as far as, you know, your epilepsy and then that kind of being the countless for your journey to keto. So kind of give me just a back story, man. I wanna I'm gonna flesh that out in detail. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So, so it's funny, 'cause I, I did it backwards in a way, you know, I found, I found low carb the lifestyle, you know, when I was trying to lose some weight and you know, I, I hit 40 years old, you know, started to develop a bit of, a bit of a paunch. You know, I called myself a, a middle-aged pathlete. You know, it's a weekend warrior, you know, I was involved with the local rowing team and all that, but still, you know, putting on little
weight by little by little. So I was trying one thing, trying another. I tried, you know, paleo and, and clean eating and all this sort of thing. And actually what got me to finally try low carb was I don't know if you know Vinny Tordorich. Yeah. But his, his thing is NSNG no sugar is no grains. And I said, wow, that's just two things, you know, cut out sugar is cut out.
That's not not a big deal. Little did I know it's that's about 80% of the food that that you'll find in any supermarket, right? But I said, well, let me, you know, let me try this, let me check it out. And I'm starting, starting to have some success with it. And, and his podcast Fitness Confidential, he does a, he does a similar, you know, a long form interview every week with a
different guest. So one week he had, he had this guy Jim Abrams. And I don't know if you're, you're familiar with Jim Abrams, but he, yeah, you know who he is. He's been around for a for a very long time in this space. His son back in the back in the early 90s, his son Charlie was two years old and, and started having had epilepsy. He started having seizures, you know, dozens of seizures a day. And so he had this incredible story of, of just, they had tried everything.
They tried medication, they tried surgeries, they tried, you know, he was at the end of his rope and he happened to be in the medical library. I I think it was UCLA and looking through, you know, these, these neurology books and, and kind of, you know, trying to find out anything he could. And he, and he finds a reference to the ketogenic diet and, and so he goes to his, you know, to, to Charlie's neurologist and says, you know, hey, could we try this? And they're like, well, we don't
really do that here, you know. And so you know, his story, he went, of course, you know, being a big Hollywood producer, he's, he's the guy behind the airplane movies and, and you know, some of those really hilarious comedies from the 90s. And so he, he managed to find the one doctor in America, the one neurologist who still practiced the ketogenic diet
with his patients. And so, you know, it was, it was kind of serendipitous, I guess, that they, that they found this guy John Freeman and became patients of his. And, and lo and behold, you know, Charlie's seizures clear up almost right away. So I so back to my story. You know, I'm, I'm driving to work one day. I'm listening to this and I'm like, Oh my God, that's, that's crazy. You know, unbelievable story. I'm listening to, to, to Jim, who's who's, you know, an older
man now he's in his 80s. He's he's breaking up in tears, still telling the story, right. And I was like, wow, that, that's incredible. And and so, you know, again, backtrack all my story. I had been living with epilepsy by that point for 15 years or so. And you know, knock wood it, it was going well. I was on medication and I took my pill in the morning. I took my pill at night and, and said, you know, it's able to live, you know, a pretty normal life, but you know, sure enough.
And so it's so, you know, I heard it and I, I didn't hear it, you know what I mean? I sort of said, well, you know, that's interesting, but you know, what I'm doing is working. Let's not rock the boat, you know what I mean?
And so Fast forward, boy, about a year from that, when my seizures came back out of the blue and nobody knows why, you know, whether it's, you know, just changes in hormones, getting older, you know, whether it's you develop tolerance to the medication, whatever it might be. But sort of in the worst way possible, I was, so I was, I was on a trip, on a camping trip with my brother.
And I was driving home from, you know, driving home from upstate New York back to where I live here in the Washington, DC area and started to feel lightheaded and started to think, you know, uh oh, what's going on here? You know, my particular type of seizures tend to, they, they originate in the, the hearing
portion of my brain. And so in addition to the music that's on the stereo, I start hearing like other music on top of it. It's, you know, sort of this, what they call a auditory hallucination. And I think, Oh my God, I think I know what this is, you know, so I try to start pulling the car over. I'm on a, on a highway, you know, pull the car over to the
side of the road. And next thing you know, I was, I was in an ambulance, you know, driving away, sort of you're totally disoriented and look out the little, the little ambulance window behind. And, and there's my car sort of up on the grass sitting at this weird angle. You know, I'm like, Oh my God, what happened? And so that's really the, the, the point that was kind of the catalyst for me when I, when I decided, OK, let's, you know, let's take this thing a little bit more seriously.
Let me see look into this this keto diet thing and and see what I can do, see if it'll help with my seizure control. Rewind even further, you when you when you were first diagnosed with epilepsy and getting the seizures for the first time 15 years ago or so, you know, at that point, what was, I mean, how, how old were you when that came on? Was there any inclination as to what the countless for that was? What was your thought process when you first started getting
these seizures? Yeah, great question. So I was 28 years old. I was living in New York City, you know, the sort of bachelor lifestyle. I had two roommates and so living with two other guys and and up the West side of Manhattan. I was a teacher, high school teacher, and so one of my roommates was, was also a colleague, you know, also taught
at the school where I taught. And, you know, we were just hanging out one night and, and talking about what we're going to eat for, for dinner or whatever. And we're so we're just chatting back and forth and all of a sudden I started to feel like this really light headed feeling. And actually as they were talking, I could hear ever, ever when you were a kid, you'd put like a cardboard tube over your ear and, and, you know, it sounds like everything's kind of echoey at the end of a hall.
That's kind of what I was hearing as they were talking. And so I, I remember I stood up to kind of like, you know, thought it might, you know, shake my head, kind of clear, clear my head. And, and that was it. You know, I, I fell backward down into, I was in kind of one of those easy chairs, you know, fell backward into the chair,
went into a full on seizure. And, and, you know, there's all, there's all different kinds of seizures, but mine follow the sort of the, the, the, the one you see in movies, right? The, the full on convulsions and, and what they call it tonic clonic seizure. And so yeah, kind of really came completely out of the blue. And so they were freaking out, you know, of course my roommates didn't know what to do. They're running, running in circles.
They call 911. They're making so much noise, yelling and screaming that our neighbors come from down the hall and they knock on the door and they're like, what the Hell's going on down here? You know this guy that we didn't actually get along with real well. We used to call him the buffoon. And so my roommate goes, you guys say buffoon, go get an ambulance, go find us a name. It's like, okay, And he runs out of the house.
So what is going on here? But yeah, anyway, ended up in the hospital for a couple of days and they did every test, you know, they did Eegs, you know, which is they measured the brain waves, did an MRI, the brain scan, you know, battery of tests. And really nothing came up. Nothing came up unusual out of out of the ordinary. And so the doctors there. And now, as it turns out, my as it happens, my younger brother grew up with epilepsy.
He had what they call, what they used to call absence seizures, which is where he kind of, you know, he might be in mid sentence and just trail off and then kind of stare blankly into the, into the distance. And what's happening at the time is the brain is actually having a seizure, even though it doesn't have the, the motor, you know, the motor effects of on the muscles and everything. And then he'd come right back, you know, after 30 seconds, 45 seconds and not know that
anything had happened. So because there was that genetic connection, you know, of, of my brother having it, they, they said, well, OK, you know, it runs in families. So likely this is, you know, epilepsy. So they so they put me on medication and and it was you're asking, you know, what did my mind state at the time? You know, it was a bit of a threw me for a loop. I guess you could say, you know, OK, what can I do?
What can I do? You know, luckily, like I said, I lived in New York City at the time, so I didn't have a car, right. But but one of the things about epilepsy is once you have the seizure, they take your license away. So, OK, something to think about, right? So, so it does really upend your whole life. But you know, I was fortunate in that I had good friends and, and a good support system and everything. I'll tell you one other funny
thing. I mean, maybe one of the reasons why I was why I guess you could say I'm biased toward diet or other lifestyle treatments. They, they look me up, they look me up and down. Check me out. They, they prescribed at the time I, it was Dilantin, which is a, a epilepsy medication that has been around for a very long time. And what they prescribed was 100 milligrams three times a day. What somehow ended up in my little, in my little orange bottle there was 300 milligrams
three times a day. I'm not sure where the mistake happened, but sure enough, I mean, after a week, I actually ended up with toxicity, I think taking three times the amount of, of medication that I was supposed to be taking. So when I'm wound wound up back in the hospital, I was like having, you know, headaches and fevers and, and, and delusions and weird dreams of rainbows and, and unicorns and things like that. And so, so it's, it's been an
adventure from the start. I guess you could say that. So when, when you were 28 got diagnosed with with the epilepsy and you were having these seizures, they gave you medication, you, you, you got that dosage dialed in and you didn't really have any seizures from that point on until the car accident, 15 years. Later.
Well, yeah, I mean not exact. I mean, so I went so after that first, after that first go around, I did, I started seeing a neurologist regularly, you know, doing and, and taking that again, taking the medication as prescribed, got that dialed in, as you said. And after about two years, I had moved, actually, I moved out to Colorado to go to grad school.
And so that's another great thing about, about, you know, living with a chronic condition, every time you move, you got to find a new new Doctor, you know, a new this and that and, and start all over again. So I was talking to this neurologist down in Colorado and she said, you know, you've only been, you know, it's been 2 years they've been seizure free. And it, and it was true that, that the medication worked. I didn't have any seizures for, for those two years.
And she said, you know, protocol is, you know, and you, and she said, you know, you've only had the one seizure really, that you, they wait usually until you've had at least two, maybe more before they start prescribing medication. So do you want to try going off and, and the, and the medication Dilantin's pretty, the side effects are pretty harsh with that. You know, your teeth, you come start, start bleeding and, and you have all kinds of weird problems. And so I said sure.
So, so I went off the medication and then within a month or so, I had another seizure. And so then it was like, OK, well, yeah, it looks like you really do need this medication. So I was able at that point to switch to a different, a different medication, Trileptal is called. And that was what I was on. Like I say, for for ten years or more without without a problem until that sort of fateful day. What what do they do with regards to your driver's
license? Like they like, is there like a certain amount of time that can elapse without any seizures that they allow you to drive again or how how's that work? Yeah, yeah. And it varies state by state. So some states are mandated reporting where the doctor, if you go into a doctor and you've had a seizure, the doctor is required to actually report you to the DMV. Some other states don't have that, but you're expected to
sort of self report. But then there the, the amount of time that so you have to establish, you know, seizure freedom for a certain amount of time, but the amount of time varies. I mean, so I live, like I said, I live in Virginia just outside of DC in DC. If I lived a mile away in DC, it would be 12 months. Where I am in Virginia at six months. If I live a mile in the other direction in Maryland, it would
be three months. So it's, it's actually pretty arbitrary, you know, and that's, that's one of the sort of one of the weird things. I mean, and I understand, of course I understand the reasoning behind it. You can't have someone, you know, behind the wheel driving a, you know, 2000 LB vehicle, you know, if they're if they're
going to lose consciousness. But there is some, it, it does bother me that there's something sort of arbitrary about it and something almost, you know, that you, you don't hear the same restrictions if someone has, let's say, a heart condition, right? But there's, I think some of this is, is a vestige of, I don't know if I'd call it prejudice or, or, or, or stereotypes around people with epilepsy, their capability to, to, you know, to function in the world and that sort of thing. Yeah.
No, that's that is interesting for sure. I would have assumed that there's like a more standardized protocol, but seems to be at the discretion of each individual state. It is, it is, yeah. And, and, and some of the organizations like the Epilepsy Foundation have have done some good work advocating were more evidence based, you know, protocols and things, but still a lot, a lot of way to go. Yeah.
So, OK, so Fast forward now you, you have the the accident and that's kind of like the awakening for you to take things more serious to get nutrition dialed in, re refocus or kind of get back dialed in with regards to what you'd learn on that podcast with Vinny, What was that journey like? Did you automatically just take out the, the sugars and grains and hope for the best Or did you like go 'cause I know with, with the traditional ketogenic diet for epileptics, I mean they're
doing like a four to one ratio. They're going super high fat. Did you just, like, rip the Band-Aid off and go to that degree? Yeah, no, good, good question. So, and, and, and I'm glad you asked because, you know, it is, it's important to clarify that I, that I did find a neurologist to work with a doctor. In fact, I went back to my own doctor after that seizure while I was driving, you know, and
then again, big scary event. I mean, my friends, my wife, I had to call all my friends and then four of them came, you know, drove 3 hours to come pick me up and sort of, you know, upended a lot of things for me. And I went to my neurologist and he said, yeah, I'm not too worried about it. Well, I am. And he said, yeah, no, we'll, we'll just up your medication a little bit. And so I said, OK, well, let's try that.
So it so we did up the medication for a little while and then I did have a second seizure another six months after that. And then he said, well, let's let's up the medication again. And that's when I really said, OK, let me let me really get check into this into this dietary treatment thing. So I'm very lucky in the fact that just an hour or so away from me is, is the Johns Hopkins Hospital, which is sort of doctor Eric Kossoff.
There is, is one of the and has been one of the the leading voices in dietary treatment for epilepsy. Now he's a he's a pediatric neurologist. So he, he works with kids, but he helped to found the adult epilepsy Diet center, which is there at which is there at Hopkins. So I, I was able to, to get myself enrolled as a patient there and, you know, after a bit of a waiting list and, and, and that sort of thing.
But so, so for six years now I've been, I've been in their care and I've been working with the doctor, Doctor Savanka there who's, you know, I'm very lucky that that one of the leading, you know, world leading neurologist for, for ketogenic diet is, is right up the road. But, but to talk, yeah, just to talk a little bit about the, about the protocol they use. They use what's called modified Atkins diet there.
And so it's, it's basic, it's similar to the induction phase of the the classic sort of Atkins. The old Atkins book where it's about 65% fat by calories, about 65% fat, about 30% protein and about 5% carbohydrate. And So what they do, they have an intake where, where I went in and, and they did a whole class, you know, they had a group of us that they taught us, you know, what's a carbohydrate? What's a, you know, what are fats, What are the, and, and guide us through eating guidelines.
And, and their guideline is basically stick to 2020 grams of net carbs per day. And then they, you know, kind of, and, and they had injured, they, they, you know, set us up on a chronometer, you know, just a food tracking app to kind of track and to figure out, you know, the macros and that sort
of thing. And even that, you know, they sort of they say, you know, after six months or so, once you once you've got the got it down, you know, and you kind of know because you do know after a while, you know, you can kind of in the back of your mind track it. So, so I actually don't sometimes I track just to if I'm, if I feel like I might be slipping, if I might have some carb creep, but but I don't actually even even track my
macros every day. But yeah, so that so it's and and it's actually, you know, you mentioned the four to one, which is the classic ketogenic diet, the one that's been around since, what is it 1921 where the first doctor, Russ Conklin from I think it was the Mayo Clinic came up with the the ketogenic diet for epilepsy. And, and that was the main treatment for a long time actually, that the, the more before there was medication, there was this diet.
And then over the years, different protocols have been developed that are a little bit less, less stringent, I guess less harsh than the four to one. There's a three to one. There's, like I said, the modified Atkins diet. There's even a diet where it's even more liberal with carbs, but you supplement MCT oil like every meal and every snack. You're sort of supplementing MCT oil throughout the day.
Yeah, I would imagine there's like a threshold for each individual, like they're going to be more sensitive to the macro distribution than others. So you kind of just, you know, start and figure out what that threshold is for for you. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And, and it seems like it seems like many of the clinics that I'm aware of now or start with something that's a little bit
less restrictive. And then if it's not working, then they go more restrictive versus, you know, it used to be more of a, you know, the older, the old days that they would start with a three day fast in the hospital, right, to to really kick you into ketosis and then start with a four to one. And if it's working, OK, we can ease back a little bit. But it seems like different, different centers use different protocols as far as that goes. Yeah.
And so how old were you when you were going through that program initially? So that would that was six years ago. I'm 49 now. So that was, that was, yeah, 43 years old when I when I started there. Gotcha. And at that point, were you, were you pretty optimistic about the dietary interventions being the, the thing that's going to work for you? Were you hesitant to remove the, the medication? Were you just trying to find a way to remove the medication? Like what was your mindset
there? You know my mindset. I'm glad you asked because I I to be and, and I'm always trying to be completely transparent. I'm still on medication. As a matter of fact, I've been able to transition to an even less invasive, you know, less, less difficult medication, one that's more modern, you know, newer, has better side effect profile and and a fairly low dose as well. But my my approach is just let's throw the kitchen sink at this thing. You know what I mean?
If there's a chance that that eating this way is going to help, you know, keep seizures away, you know, and then then let's go for it. And, and I really have come to believe too, that eating this way is, is the best, is the best way to eat for our brain in general, you know? No, I totally agree, man. I feel like I've got, you know, I've had clients over the years that have had like, you know,
medical conditions and whatnot. And it seems that at the onset that having those conditions is like a negative, like it makes you hindered in some form or fashion. But I think at the end of the day, like, it just really tightens the, the margin of error and, and creates a better, you know, window to look through life with as far as like what should I allow and not allow into my, my, you know, diet, my,
my activity profile. And I feel like you can gain a lot more clarity as to what is a positive or negative into your life much more expeditiously when you have those ailments, as opposed to someone that seemingly has no ailments, but then just often times as a result of that allows a lot more things into their life they probably shouldn't. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I mean, you know, I've thought about that a lot over the years. I mean, would I go so far as to
call it a gift? Maybe not, you know, but but you know, I wouldn't go so far as to call it a curse either. You know, it's, it's a it's a part of my life and it's something I need to deal with and it but it's not, it's not my entire life. It's not my identity. It's not, it's something that that I, you know, everybody's got a something right. And so, and, and you know,
you're right. I mean, I have thought about how it, it has forced me to, about to take better care of myself really, you know, take better care of my body and my brain. You know, the, the, the first, again, going back to when I first heard about this, one of the, one of the resources that the Charley Foundation has on their website is a, it's APDF called Does What I Eat affect my seizures? And that was the 1st, first time I'd ever heard that question,
right? How many of us even think that, oh, what I eat has anything to do with how my brain functions, right. In our culture, we're kind of, we're kind of conditioned to think, well, the brain's over here, the body's over there. Two totally different things. And you know, so, so even just the awareness of that has been has been a gift for for sure, No. 100%, man.
Did you notice a pretty profound improvement in, you know, how you were feeling and as it pertains to the epilepsy specifically and then just what we can kind of branch out from there in a second. But as far as the epilepsy is concerned, did you notice a pretty stark contrast as soon as you started implementing the diet? I did. I did notice, I noticed having
more energy. I noticed, you know, I would definitely like pre before I started the diet, I would get the afternoon slump, you know, 3:00. I was looking for a snack or a cup of coffee or something to get me through the afternoon. You know, definitely profound influence on, on the energy levels throughout the day and, and hunger levels. You know, the leptin and the ghrelin, All the stuff you read about just gets sort of brought under control, you know, So wasn't having having.
I haven't been hangry in years, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, that's good for sure, man. What else? Like when you were when you were first starting, were you finding it difficult to find foods that fit the criteria? Was that pretty easy to do, especially with the chronometer M? Yeah, no, you know, once you start, once you kind of get your head around it and you know, I'm sure, you know, Doctor Robert Saivas, he's got this this perspective. He talked talks about carb addiction, right.
And then being the carb addiction doc and you start to, you know, he talks about how how vegans have this, whether you're whether or not you like the vegan diet, they have this perspective where they look at a piece of meat and say, that's not food, that's something horrible.
I would never touch it, you know, and in order to succeed, what I found is that I have to think it that way about carbs, you know, and they look at, you know, a piece of pizza or a doughnut or or whatever and just say that that's not food and I'm not going to touch it. It's, it's not even part of my world, you know what I mean? And so there's a lot I think of, of the mindset shift is a, is a big, big part of it.
And then once you, once you were able to adopt that mindset shift, you can start to look around, you know, and it actually, I think it becomes simpler. You know, the first thing I did was, was to start eating hard boiled eggs. I would get a dozen eggs, you
know, Sunday afternoon sometime. I'd just boil them up, put them in the fridge and said, OK, you know, mornings because I used to before that I was into the, you know, the smoothies, the cereal, whatever might be. And it's so much easier to grab 2 hard boiled eggs out of the fridge than it is to make a smoothie with the vegetables and the juice and the blah blah, blah. So I was like, all right, this is great, you know, so, OK, breakfast done, taken care of, right? Dinner.
I do the cooking in the house, so, so that helped as well because I can control what goes into what goes into dinner, right? So OK, dinner's going to be a piece of meat and a vegetable. Saute it up, you know, some olive oil, boom, done. And then lunch is going to be leftovers of the night before, you know, So once you sort, I feel like once you sort of understand the, the, the parameters, the rules, you know what I mean, then then the details become a lot easier to fill in.
Yeah. 100% man, I feel like they're especially now, there's just way too many options for what to eat and a lot of it is not food. Like especially all these, you know, heavily processed, hyper palatable, you know, lab created foods. Like I, I think it's totally reasonable to look at that and view it as this negative connotation that is not food, you know, mentality.
So I, I, I like that, you know, example you with the, the vegans and meat and a lot of people like they throw shade on that. They're like, Hey, you gotta be able to eat everything in moderation. Having any form of elimination is an eating disorder in and of itself. And I totally disagree with that. Like some people are definitely better suited to eliminate as
opposed to moderate. And like, when you're looking through it as far as moderating some of these prepackaged junk foods in the 1st place, like I don't even feel like removing that is a disservice at all. Like I don't feel like I'm missing out by not having that. Right, right. Do I need to moderate, you know, polysorbate 80 and and other all these additives that are chemicals that are not even, you know, found in nature, you know, or am I better off just without
them completely? Well, I would say just get them, get rid of them completely. You know, 100%. So with you being the the primary chef in the house, I guess your wife is kind of doing keto now by default, right? A little bit, a little bit. So, so she's from the Philippines. And so in the Philippines, it's not a meal without rice, right? You try to, you try to serve a meal without rice, you're going to get kicked out of the house.
So I, I'll make, you know, I'll make something, you know, gosh, and I've, and I've learned to make some, some Filipino recipes, you know, adopted for, for a low carb like adobo is big, you know. Yeah. So make a nice chicken adobo chicken with soy sauce, the vinegar and all the good stuff. And she makes the rice and I just have the chicken, you know? So it's so we make it work, you know? You couldn't get her bought into cauliflower rice, and that wasn't the same thing.
We tried, she did. She did go for it for a little while, but you know, she goes back and forth, yeah. Yeah, cauliflower rice is definitely the same thing as rice. There's that miracle rice too, which I'll do like when I'm trying to go ultra low calories, but that is just eating like water balloons, you know? Is it? Yeah, yeah, No, I haven't tried that one. OK.
Yeah, you're not missing. Out but but, but even she has noticed like so, so we never have wheat, you know, but once in a while she'll have a piece of bread and she's noticed that her that her joints, you know, her, her knuckles start to hurt. You know, she gets a little bit of a rheumatoid reaction to that. Yeah. I mean gluten, man. Like we're just plain simple, not designed to breakdown and assimilate gluten like that. Like everyone is gluten intolerant.
Not it's varying degrees, like some people can notice it more profoundly than others, but as a species we are 100% not designed to to breakdown and assimilate gluten. Yeah, no, absolutely. And, and in fact, even in the epilepsy world, there are people who that's all they need to do. They don't even need to go ketogenic. They'll they eliminate gluten and it'll and the seizures will go away. Yeah, that is super interesting. The, the psychological component is, is really component to me.
Like I feel like there's, you know, like Chris Palmer's putting out some great work right now as far as the, the psychology around, you know, what you're eating and how that impacts things, especially with the the rise the of people suffering from depression and all the SSRIs and just the medications involved in that. And I feel like if if we can just simply improve what people are eating and then so much of that can be resolved relatively quickly and painlessly.
Yeah, yeah. No, I, I agree completely. His, his book is fascinating. I read it and I had the opportunity to meet him at that the Metabolic Health Summit. I was, I, I, I, I talked my way into being in the, the, the book signing the first night. And so they set me up with a little table and I've got my books there. And sure enough, right next to me is Chris Palmer and he's got a line going out the door, you know, and here's me, nobody's heard, nobody's heard of me, right?
But I ended up, I finally just got up and started talking to people who were in line to, to, to meet him, just had something to do. But yeah, he's great, a great guy. And I actually went and I, and I said to him, thank you for helping me to understand my epilepsy, because a lot of his research and his, his book Brain Energy, you know, is based on epilepsy research and connecting it to mental health research, right?
And, and so you know, who, who, how did it take us this long to kind of realize that, Oh, wait, you know, psychology and neurology, they're both dealing with the same organ. You know what I mean? Like. Yeah, 100%. And it's kind of crazy because like right now, I mean, you've been doing this for a while, like keto kind of saw its, its peak probably in 2017,
2018-2019. And then now it's kind of like like there's carnivore, but it's, it's kind of like getting, you know, hedged that as this like quote UN quote fad diet. But then it's like all you, all this science and research is coming around around the ketogenic diets as it pertains to, you know, Cancer Research and, and neurological health and function. It's like, how can you not excited to be in this keto space?
Like, how can one possibly assume that it's just some fad that's gonna go on the wayside when all this research just keeps coming out and out? No, exactly, exactly in my, in my book, I call it the 100 year old fad diet, right. So everyone thinks it's this big fad, but it's been, you know, as you know, it's been around for 100 years as a as a treatment
for epilepsy. And, and if you look at there's this cool feature on, on pub Med where you can put in a search term and it gives you a graph of how many papers were published each year with that topic. And so if you put in ketogenic, you just see this flat line right around zero for, for years and years and years, you know, maybe one or two papers each year. And then all of a sudden in the last 10 years, it just spikes up like crazy.
And I think it's only going to keep going, you know, because the thing at that, at that conference, you could just feel the energy, the excitement. You know, I just felt like everybody I talked to knew that we're sort of on the cutting edge of something that's that's only expanding and that that we're only beginning to understand. You know, I mean, you talk to when I certainly when I started 2016, you know, there there was I, I was being trained on, OK,
we know this works. We know this thing helps reduce seizures. We have no idea why, right? So 100 years, I still don't know why exactly, but it does work and we're starting to understand why there. But it looks like there's a bunch of different mechanisms, right? There's anti inflammation and there's the energetics of the brain and there's the gut microbiome, you know, whole whole new area of research there
as well. Yeah, no, I'm super excited about, I think I'm, I'm incredibly optimistic about the future of the diet as a lifestyle. And, you know, like I'm just excited and, and honored to be part of it 'cause I feel like we are on the cutting edge. And I feel like there's just, you know, take all the scientific studies and throw them out the window. Just look at all the anecdotal evidence.
Like half the people that are at these conferences are there because they've drastically improved their own health or they know someone in their family that has that's, you know, gained them years of their life back. And it's like once you've experienced that, you can't unknow it. And then it just becomes like a, a part of your identity. It becomes something that you want to share and help others to achieve as well.
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. You know, I was looking around at the conference and you know, there was in the presentations fell into basically two camps, right. There's the pH DS who are who are presenting the latest science and most of what they're saying is completely over my
head, but you know, that's fine. And, and then there's like the M DS that are talking about how they use it in their clinic with patients, you know, and then, and so the, the, the attendees are also, you got the pH DS, you got the M DS, you got the, the students and you got the people who are trying to heal and the people who are trying to optimize.
And it's kind of, that's kind of interesting to me that that this one thing, this one ketogenic diet, it can help, can help people heal, you know, if they're needing to heal, that can help people optimize if they're trying to, you know, win athletic competitions or whatever it might be. Yeah. And I think I mean, if you if you just step back and look at it holistically, that makes
sense. We are so far removed from what we are designed to eat as a species that the closer we return to that, it would stand to reason that we would heal.
We would mitigate these pain points and inflammation and chronic, you know, stressors on the body and that we would optimize performance and overall recoveries and strength metrics, endurance components like all these things would improve in the context of a properly formulated species specific diet that lo and behold, I think is pretty eloquently illustrated by a well formed ketogenic diet. And if you get that dialed in, everything else will improve as well.
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And it's it's fascinating to me. And and, you know, it's again, you know, it's a journey. I'm not perfect for sure. You know, I've stumbled, I've had, you know, screw ups along the way, but, but just, you know, being part of this thing and being, you know, being I, I often say, you know, and there's a sense of agency with it, right?
I mean, when I was first, again, going back to when I was first diagnosed with epilepsy, it was like, OK, well, looks like you're going to be on medication for the next 50 years or so. All right, You know, take this pill and, and, and good luck. And you sort of that puts all the power in the hands of the the doctor, right? Because I don't know one difference between one. Yeah, there's 25. Sure. There's 2526 medications on the
market for epilepsy. I don't know which one's better, which one's going to work, which one's not. You know, it's all it's, you know, it's all Greek to me as a patient. But here's one thing that I know that I can control. And here's one way that I know that I can participate in my treatment, you know, And there's something very empowering about that. Yeah, I think there's something incredibly empowering about
that. And I mean, like just the the compounding effect of what we eat every single day and its impact on our livelihood and existence. Like when you just take the guesswork out of it and you return to that empowering nature of, you know, having control over what food you're preparing, where you're sourcing that food, how you're cooking that food, what you put into your body. Like you just feel like you're now in control of your own
health and destiny. And I feel like we're so far removed from that and everybody's leaning on whatever the doctor says or whatever medication schedule they're on. I feel like, you know, the further we can get from that and the closer we can get to just how we should be eating, the better for sure. I think the conferences are a great way to to illustrate that because it shows people, you know, that they're not alone in this journey. And I think that's the main thing.
Like people need to have some sense of camaraderie and know that other people are are doing something that they can resonate with. So like you having gone through this from an epileptic standpoint, you know, and having dealt with seizures, people that have gone through a similar journey themselves can appreciate what you're saying heck of a lot more than they'd be able to resonate with what I'm saying, having not gone through that.
So you can touch people and, you know, get them on the right track, which is, I'm assuming, part of the reason why you why you wrote your book. Yeah, no, exactly, exactly. You know, so, so the book was sort of my, my lockdown pandemic project, you know, back in 2020, I had, I had the opportunity to, to join this book writing online book writing class and start thinking, well, what am I going to write about? You know, so I'm trained as a writer.
My background is as a writer. I'm an English teacher. So what am I going to write about? And I decided, well, let me, let me, you know, I've been doing so much reading about this and listening to so many podcasts, I might as well to, you know, try to write about my, my experience and, and about this whole ketogenic diet thing.
And I finally said, well, you know, let me write the book that I wish I had when I'd started, you know, not so much a how to, but you know, a, a companion along the journey, if, if that makes sense, you know, And so the first part of the book is, it's, it's kind of a weird book 'cause it's three different things in one, right? It's part, first part is sort of my own, my own experience, my own journey.
The second part is profiles of other people who have, who have gone down this road, both other patients, entrepreneurs, you know, a number of doctors and researchers, a number of people in this space. And then the third part is, is sort of principles, you know, the power of community, right? The power of everything's. Every chapter in part three is the, the power of one thing or another, right?
The power of thinking differently and being a maverick, you know, and, and using sort of bringing together all those my story, yes, but all those different people that I've talked to dozens of, of interviews and what themes emerge and that kind of thing. So hopefully, you know, a number of, of folks have reached out to me and said that actually the best, best review I ever got was I got a message on Instagram and, and a woman said, thank you for writing this book.
I, I don't feel so scared about what's happening to me. That's awesome. And I was like, wow, my God, you know, that's, that's more than I could ever have have hoped for you. Know that's that's truly amazing, man like that. And when you write a book like you're able to just scale your reach and you're, you're impacting people in ways that you'll never even know and that that's a good thing, man, that's a positive thing because like, like I said, I'm all for the studies, I'm all for the
research. Like we need that. But people resonate with stories. They resonate with, you know, human interaction. They resonate with anecdotal, you know, evidence. And I feel like a book written like that is the best way to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks. Thanks, man. I appreciate that. You bet, you bet. Well, what's in the pop up for you, man? What, what what do you got coming? What's exciting you now? And, and is there another book at some point in the future that
what, what are you thinking? I'm I'm thinking there is. So I continue to write. I write unremarkable brain.com as my website and you if you go to that, that side, it takes you to my sub stack page where I write a newsletter every week. And you know, it's, it's sort of wherever my curiosity takes me at this point. You know, I've gotten really you mentioned that like the food system and where does our food
come from? So I do posts about that, you know, I do posts about the latest research, whatever study has come out recently, you know, whether it be, you know, a profile. I did an interview with Doctor Mary Newport about Alzheimer's and her research.
And so just sort of, you know, different, just different topics and always with sort of that, that sense of humor and and down to earth kind of approach, you know, it's I don't try to get too sciencey or too, you know, too cerebral about it, but just telling the stories and, and finding out, finding out what's going on in the world. So, yeah, I've been doing, I've been doing that for the last couple of years and, and continuing to research, continue to write.
I'm also because I just, I'm, I'm a learning junkie, you know, I'm working on my certification through nutrition network on becoming a, a nutrition advisor. So who knows, Maybe I'll, I'll, I'm not sure if I'm going to move into the, the coaching space or any of that, but you know, it, it's right now it's for my own learning. But we'll see, We'll see. Maybe I'll start working with some folks. What is Nutrition Networks framework like?
Oh, so they're the the they're run under Tim Noakes in South Africa and the Nokes Foundation, and they're the educational arm of the Low Carb USA organization, which is now called the Society for Metal Metabolic Health Practitioners. I just had one of their representatives on my podcast and we're talking about it and I think it's super compounding. Like I love what they've got. So I'm excited to hear what you're you're thinking of it from a user, from a participant.
Yeah, yeah. And so and I went to their conference a couple years ago down there in Florida. Great organization, great people who are just in it for, you know, in it for the love of it. You know, you get the same kind of energy that that I think I'm sure you could feel it. Metabolic Health Summit, there's that energy there where they're really just trying to trying to help people and trying to unify this, this mission of bringing, bringing metabolic health into
the mainstream. And so, and so, yeah, I, I'd gone to the, the conference and met some folks and one of the, one of the people that I met there was working on his certification. And So what is that, you know,
what's that all about? And so it's an online course, you know, and, and the number of videos and, and modules that you work through about everything from everything from diabetes reversal to, you know, to weight management to, to, you know, they, they do touch on neurology and epilepsy. They touch on sort of all the aspects of all the aspects of metabolic health. And then within that they also
have specialized courses. So I took this, I also took the specialized neurology course that they have, they have courses on, also on, on, you know, exercise and then exercise Physiology and stuff. So really fascinating stuff. And that did a great job putting up putting together, you know, again, some of the biggest names and, and, and some of the
biggest experts in the space. Yeah, I, I perused their website after having her on the podcast and it seemed like they've got a pretty comprehensive list of just different topics to learn about. So I, I think what they're doing is, is awesome work for sure, especially what they're doing in South Africa and just that region as it pertains to, you know, food quality there locally. I think they're making some massive gain waves there as well. Yeah, yeah.
And that's, and that's the cool thing about it too, is that, you know, they have, you know, of course you've seen the same, the same news stories on TV that I have, you know, about poverty and, and, you know, the the, the underprivileged folks in South Africa. But they've, they've really made it, you know, made it clear that you could do this even in, you know, even if you are an underprivileged person and you're not, not, you know, you don't have to be wealthy to live
low carb. Totally, totally, totally talking about sub stack, man. Like I've heard a lot of people reference that. I've not done any significant research on my own. That's basically like where you write your content and that's accessible to anybody that wants to read around. Like what what is the benefit of that versus like having like a newsletter or something? I guess it is a newsletter. Yeah, it is, it is I, I've tried a couple of different blogging platforms like blogger.com back
in the day. And this one. I, I, it's so a couple of things about it that I really like is that it's very intuitive. You know, you don't have to spend a lot of time on design and, and those sorts of things. You know, it's, it's designed for writers who just want to write basically. And it is it, it enables you to, if you want to publish your post as a news, as a newsletter to straight to people's inboxes, you can do that.
They have, they also have layers where you can, you can add a, like a, a paywall, you know, and put certain posts behind a paywall or not. I haven't done any of that yet. All my, all my stuff is up there for free. People just, you know, go to my website and sign up or not sign up. You can click through without signing up and just read what's on there. And but they also do they, they sort of seem to be adding
features every year. So, so now you can actually post a podcast and it will create the RSS feed to go out to, you know, to go out to the podcast platforms and videos and all kinds of things. So it's a lot of fun. You know, it's, it's a, it's a good, it's my creative outlet, I like to say. Yeah. No, I like that for sure. So is it kind of like did you ever use medium? No, I never did. But yeah, I think it's it's kind of similar to medium as well, Yeah. Yes, my concept and what what is
the? So the website for the sub stack is separate from your main website? Or is all one in the same? It's one in the same. It's just I, I, I bought the, the domain unremarkablebrain.com. And so it just refers to, you know, if you, if you put that into the browser, it'll refer you to unremarkablebrain.substack.com. Same thing. Yeah. Nice, nice. Well, I will definitely link out to that and make it easy for people to find you.
I'll be doing some perusing myself because you're writing about the same topics that I find interesting as well. So I'm, I'm excited for it, man. I'm excited to see what the future holds. Are you going to be going to any other conferences this year? I appreciate it, man. I hopefully, I definitely have my sights on Low Carb USA in January when in Boca. I was hoping to get out to, to San Diego for their for their conference in August, but I got some work obligations I can't get out of.
So yeah, just keeping an eye on on what's going on and, and what's coming up here. Very nice. Well, if I am going to be going to any of those as well, I'll definitely let you know. We'd love to see you again in person, man. Absolutely. Well, David, I certainly appreciate the time. I appreciate the work you're doing.
I'm so grateful that you have discovered the ketogenic lifestyles way to mitigate the epileptic seizures, and doing so has allowed you an outlet to create content that has likely improved the lives of many others. So keep doing the good work man. Thanks man, I appreciate it and thanks for having me on. My pleasure to be man. My pleasure. Till next time man, take care. You too.