The Science of Nutrition with Bart Kay

them at all. Or should we just take them all with a grain of salt should be up and view them? Good question. The short answer is, how do you conduct such studies effectively correctly with scientific discipline and such a way as that we could take them seriously in terms of their outcomes. The answer is you cannot do those kind of studies. because, You need a large group of people for statistical power.

They need to be genetically identical at the outset they need to have had identical life experiences and inputs in their life. Have the two up to the point where your experimental protocol begins, you then need to lock these people in labs for your experimental period, which needs to be multiple decades. If you want to talk about long-term Health outcomes as it relates, To any aspect of human

nutrition. You have to control every aspect of their lives in the in that period of time that they are locked in those labs hours of daylight exercise, exact outputs, every other facet of everything down to the smallest, my new detail any step back from any of those kind of things. It is a compromise on the validity repeatability robustness scientifically of those findings. As such you are never ever going to get ethics to run such a study. Yeah, ever. Secondly, it's totally impractical.

To run such a multi-decade or study with such a degree of control over everything anyway. And see, where's the money coming from for this? so instead what we do is we rely on this other, Ring fenced area of not even science. It's actually it's not even pseudoscience. It's actually anti-science it's nonsense and it's called nutritional epidemiology. We're what we do is we go it's too hard to run a disciplined robust study and control all of

our confounds. in the first instance, before we collect our data, so here's what we're going to do, instead, we're going to collect a bunch of data on outcomes of people that we follow is what they call it. We followed these people, which means we will ask them once at the outset of the study, what their diet looks like. Now, I'll make something up because people tell lies, basically, all right, down what I said and believe them. Absolutely. Then we'll just keep tabs on those people.

So, 5 10, 20 years, whatever it is. And we'll see how many of them have developed XYZ health condition, or how many of them have died or whatever. The outcome of the study is that Looking at and then we'll take that out comes to cystic and we'll write it down on a piece of paper. Then we'll screw that piece of paper up, throw it over our shoulder into the ash can and make up a different number on the basis of what we believe it

would have been had. We bothered to control all the things that we didn't control in the first place. And then we'll report that number. But it also report that number in such a way as to make it look really important. When actually in absolute terms, the difference between populations a b c and d is usually so minuscule as to make no difference whatsoever to the meaningful. Likelihood of any outcome for anyone given individual over a 100 Year life span.

And as such to any one given person, the utility of those studies is none. There are only useful to public policy, Setters. I guess. If those public policy centers are. So ill educated us believe that such studies can inform on cause and effect risk or Hazard anyway, which they can't. So, that's what we rely on. For all our ideas about long-term outcomes of health or longevity in humans as it relates to nutrition as such. That's where my stance come from

that, there is no science here. Yeah, Point what we need to do is be honest with people and stop saying we have all the signs piles of evidence. We have you'll hear a lot of these Charlotte and say converging lines of evidence.

They'll say compelling evidence, they'll say to which my response is always great site it for us because that's clearly something that Heather to I've been unaware of, you know, in 25 years of following this area of literature as a member of Academia working in Academia undertaking, and In publishing studies in my own right somehow, I've been too busy doing that to

miss this work. So, please site that for us this compelling pile of converging lines of evidence and, you know, universally people that say that got all this evidence and all the science behind them, generally that people with no science background of their own in fact and invariably the pile of convergent and compelling evidence. They've got is actually nothing more than a pile of horse manure. What was the and, and the bunk within minutes. Sorry, Don what was the point

at? Which you were doing your research in the academic setting where you just totally decided to deviate from the status quo and break free of that system? Like at what point were you like this is just not the trajectory that I can fully get behind. in terms of as an experimental scientist, when I was conducting research and Publishing in journals, there are six, this is set pattern for how you do that.

There's a set way that you play in your studies and execute them and communicate about what you've done to the editors of the journals that you want those journals to publish your work and nobody in that field would deign to try and exercise any kind of censorship. So long, as your work meets the criteria and no cure Huge fault can be found with. What you're saying? They need to get your work published. That's fine.

And so I as a publishing scientist was always On the, the contrary, no sign of just about every argument. That was being put forward, just about every piece of so-called perceived or established wisdom. Other two. I was like, well, let's look at it from this direction. And here are some empirical evidence, I've collected to show that. So, that was fun.

It was difficult because it was harder to get work published, but you can still get it through the real problem for me in Academia, reared, its head when Standing up in front of groups of students to deliver a course in some aspect of nutrition or physiology or whatever it was, I was teaching. It's an interesting one. Because you go for an interview for an academic posting at any given University, if you want to go and work there, it's like any other job.

You, you send a new CV, you send a new list of Publications, your background academically, all that kind of stuff, things you've achieved. Consultancies research, funding that you've pulled, all of that and if you're in the, the top bracket of the people, they want to look at they call you in for an interview just like any other job. And you go and sit in front of a panel of people that work there and they invariably ask a number of questions.

But the one question that always came up every single time was. Okay, so what makes you special, what makes you different as an academic? What can you offer our students that nobody else can? To which my answer was always the same and it was while I'm never going to stand up in front of a group of paying students and tell them lies or things that I do not believe to be robust or scientifically.

Correct. I am always going to point to where I think the floors and foibles are and I'm never going to walk the line of status quo. Hmm. And that would all go like Furious notes down and you know, variably if I was offered the job which was more often than not I would then go there and start working there and start

teaching. Exactly, according to all the way I said I would do in the interview and then word gets back to the dean several weeks after I started teaching are that, I'm saying this that and the other thing to students and then that Dean would call me into their office in say so I heard just you've said X y&z to students. Yes. As I said I would Well you can't do that. And I'm like are you stoned?

Because number one I told you unequivocally absolutely that this is what I was going to do. I told you that's what makes me different from every other trained monkey that you could have hired off that list, you chose the one that was different and said that they would stand up to this. And number two, there is a law in every developed, Western

Nation, academically. That stage words to the effect of an academic working in an academic environment, teaching, students is free to hold and espouse any opinion. They should see fit for any reason whether that's popular or not. It's a First Amendment style academic protection specifically in that field for freedom of speech on there. Gimmicks. So, if you want to tell me what I can, and can't say, two groups of students, you are in breach of the law.

Keep going Charlie Brown and I'll see you in court, basically. So I spent 25 years running that Gambit and like anything else that wears you down and frankly for a celery, As a new starting academic of around. 50 to 70,000 heading up to a maximum salary as an academic that I could command of, you know, low circular low. Sort of six figures Thrift. Yeah.

Six figures. You know, there comes a point where you go, actually, this, this is, you know, there are better things I could do with my life and with my energy. And so, it was at that point after a, particularly nasty running with my last employer along. Exactly the lines. I'm talking about here where I went actually, you know what, I am at this point, going to cut these open ties. I am going to step away from Academia. I am going to turn my back on a

nibble. To return. And I am going to sit up my own business and run my own thing walk, my own path as a social-media influencer, and obviously, the first Three years or so of that were pretty lean because it takes a while to get momentum and to get known and to get things going. But in my fourth year of doing that I had replaced my academic salary, plus a little bit. Now, by no means am I now absolutely creamy it and making

my Millions doing this. I'd like to that would be great and I'll continue to work towards that but it is a viable career path. For someone who is of a certain personality type does have a certain level of thickness of skin and is prepared to put themselves out there. It's A Hard Road but no harder than having a job. Yeah. Oh yeah. And I would advise and I would imagine your ability to make a lasting impact. On many people's lives is Amplified via the approach you're taking now.

I'm and I come from many people, my family are college professors academics and you know they all speak of their desire to positively influence, the youth with their teachings, which has a very commendable, you know, career path. But I would, I would assume that The amount of people you've been able to reach just off of your social media, presence and YouTube channel is significantly higher than you would ever been

able to reach in the classroom setting. potentially so yes, I mean I did probably teach In my career, possibly maybe 50,000 students at various times in various different institutes around the world and different places that I taught and they're different years. Now, I have a social media following that is roughly the same sort of number, but these are people who don't just have me for a semester. These are people that some of them have followed me for the

whole time. I've been a social-media influencer like nearly five years. Some of them are now consider a likely to end up being lifelong friends. From that point forward. That's it. I know I have several lifelong friends that I gained who were Her ex colleagues and or X students of mine, some of whom I taught 20 years ago, for example. So they're just different

environments of working really. I guess if anything the electronic World gives me an ability to access and Influence People in vastly diverse geographical locations and time zones and things all simultaneously pretty much, which I could never do teaching physically and person I guess. Yeah, so that, that would be where the powers. Yeah. That's more scalable and that regard for sure. Absolutely.

Yes. Because you can only teach so many classes and have so many students in each class of It physically, right? Yeah, when it comes to nutrition kind of switch gears back to that. Have you found there to be a lot of like if you if you base all your nutritional protocol and advice on what you're personally, doing yourself off of that foundational, pillar of doing things in line with our evolutionary past, an ancestral appropriate diet. Where do you find controversy as

far as that protocol? Because, you know, some people will argue that yes we are. Predominantly large ruminant animals, but we also consumed, you know, vegetation whenever possible should vegetation make up a reasonable percentage of our day-to-day die. Like where do you stand on topics like that? Well, in terms of that one in specific in particular, it seems like the level of vegetation that was consumed by humans in our evolutionary past. Before The Agrarian Revolution is what I mean.

So 10,000 years ago, And longer ago than that, right up to the beginning of our species that plant material has been identified as being largely if not entirely Roots, tuba style things. From various plants that were almost entirely fibrous contain very little starch relative to the kind of roots and tubers that you'll find in the supermarket or greengrocer today.

You need to understand that those vastly starch Laden and big robust, tubers potatoes, sweet potatoes, those kind of things that you'll find today have been selectively bred for by humans. Ins for multiple generations to make them what they are today. They are not as designed by Nature. The things that humans ate were like these long thin spindly almost entirely starch during lacking fibrous things that had to be boiled for hours and hours and hours, and the nutrition that we gain from.

Those was a very small amount of short chain fatty acids as a function of a very inefficient human ability. T to host bacteria that will break down some of that fiber and produce those fatty acids. So still our intakes were basically 100%. Animal protein and fatty acids the, the carbohydrate intake was to all intents and purposes 0. That is a fact. Yeah, it was an unequivocal fact. That's a scientific fact.

The human beings started to consume any amount of plant material to speak of whatsoever at around about the time of the Uber and Revolution about 10,000 years ago. And it was largely at first, it was largely the seeds of grasses. Grains basically, and then we branched out from there and we selectively bred all sorts of plants to produce to produce produce, which we would find more appealing and more disturbing but we didn't deal with most of the problems of eating plants.

We didn't change our genetics hugely because it's been an absolute genetic flash-in-the-pan of course. So that's that. One. There's been a big within the carnivore space. There seems to be this growing interest in incorporating, you know, fruits and honey. And you know from my perspective that obviously wasn't in line with our evolutionary past. I don't function well with fruits and honey, I don't incorporate them personally. Some people argue that, you

know. Yeah we didn't have those throughout our past but from a optimization standpoint you could probably benefit from having them now, Now, which to me, just doesn't make much rational sense. Either what's your take on this fruit? And honey Trend that that fruit and honey thing that's quite popular in there that a number of people are being basically we've fooled by and sucked into is an ideology that's being pushed by one bloke in particular, who is kind of the

head of that ideology? He's an ex-con of Aarhus Still has the word carnivore, and who's in his name that he uses online, which is at best disingenuous and at worst outright deceptive. Actually carnivores, do not run around eating fruit and honey. Yeah. Now what we need to understand about that bloke, first and foremost, is that he is, an MD who has specialized post MD training in the field of psychiatry Not nutrition. Not human metabolism. And certainly not how to read

science papers. Secondly that bloke has in his life apparently not done one single day's work as a physician in any field. He's a bloke like Michael Greger who has the qualification, Indy, but has never practiced medicine. That is my understanding of that blokes professional background. Certainly, if you do a Google Scholar search on his publication record, you will come up blank, not one in his life.

He's one of these blokes that thinks because you can pick up a paper and read the words that that makes him competent to actually interpret the thing and gauge judge its scientific veracity and deliver tea, and he's using that to fool people who are even stupider than he He has to believe that he's got a point. Do you think there's anything to be gained from a physiological standpoint with the addition of fruits into the diet now from like a hormonal optimization or

performance standpoint at all? Not at all. No. Nothing is to be gained by adding exoticness carbohydrate from any Source into the human diet because it is absolutely contraindicated for a number of reasons. And be one of the worst if not the worst form of carbohydrate, you can possibly pour down your near. Because fructose the reason I say that is because it is seven to ten times more damaging, at high concentrations to body tissues than is glucose.

Yeah, I mean, I agree toxin a lot of fructose and it's really obvious when you look at them, look at a picture taken of that bloke, free years ago, and a picture taken of that blow this month, it will knock your socks off. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I get a lot of pushback in the bodybuilding circles, as which is kind of my wheelhouse from, you know, not to consuming carbohydrates, not consuming glucose and been able to perform at a high level, and there's

just so much pushback in that. And I think a lot of it just stems from the dogmatic thinking towards that is the primary fuel source to begin with. But when people start looking into, you know, the ancestral upbringing, there's there's not really much argument to be had in that regard.

Now, there's an end. And also the idea that a power athlete, or a strength athlete, would require a high level of carbohydrate in their diet, to subserve, their ability to perform in their chosen sport or activity. That is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of exercise. Physiology in the first instance, a lot of the other thing about me that a lot of people don't necessarily

understand. And that is that I have three Advanced research to varies over the years because I kept changing my field of specialization. The first one was on exercise physiology. After that I went to human nutrition. And in the latter years of my academic career, I then went to cardiovascular pathophysiology. And then I suppose my fourth area of expertise that over pins are overarches, all three of the of those degrees is an understanding of statistical

inference and research design. So that's the kind of thing that allows me to have this breadth of authority in these areas. So what I can Show strength athletes, hypertrophy athlete's body, builders sprinters, team sport athletes that all believe you need a huge amount of exoticness carbohydrate in your diet in order to perform. Well, I can assure you. That is absolute nonsense. I wholeheartedly agree, their

absolute nonsense. Another how you have a performance decrease short-term, right while you transition to a species appropriate species specific Should you ever get your heads to point where you can find the courage to do? So? Absolutely. There will be a trough in your performance while your body re-equilibrate itself to the appropriate diet. But you need to understand They're human beings have a part of their metabolic process called gluconeogenesis.

And what that is, is an ability to produce all the glucose you require for all purposes. By making that Sugar from non-sugar precursors mostly, the glycerol. Backbone is a fat molecules. Actually, some of it comes from protein. Some of it comes from other mono carboxylate symptoms such as Lactaid, but mostly it's fat there that you can make sugar from. So to say, okay, a lot of carbohydrate is being metabolized. During these activities through

go, you should eat a lot. It's just there's no logical connection there because you can make all the sugar. You need yourself. Totally.

Yeah, I completely agree there in, in regards to macronutrient distribution, if we're keeping total carbs at a very minimal intake, if if not zero, another point of contention, interestingly enough in the keto corner, For space right now is the amount of dietary fat that one consumes and I've kind of defaulted towards consuming pretty high degree of data if and if that's where my primary energy source is coming from, it stands to reason that that would need to be relatively high as a

percentage of total calories. But there's been a lot of push against higher fat, protocols, even within the keto carnivore space. And I feel like, it's interesting. I mean, protein is obviously very important but I feel like the pendulum has swung Um, so far the opposite direction. You know, few years ago, was everybody was fearful of too much protein. Now, everyone's giving protein a Halo to the extent of not consuming. Ample dietary fat? Have you noticed that Trend as well?

Yeah, I think there are people who have personality types whereby, they feel some, I'm going to call it pathological need. To be special in some way to be part of a sect in some way that is better in their mind. And what everyone else is doing it's a sort of form of self-aggrandizement, I guess. And they're the kind of people that will gravitate towards pretty much any idea.

Good bad or indifferent. So long as it's in the minority and clearly different from what everyone else is saying, And they will gravitate to that and they will defend that hill to the death often without necessarily understanding anything about it. Or listening to the high priest of whatever that sectors saying and mindlessly, regurgitating, those words again, usually without actually understanding them at all. There is an ideal.

Ratio for your Macros for your fat and your protein that most human beings will set a tour around about, as I was talking about earlier, there are slight genetic differences between individuals but they're not huge. I usually find that it's your five percent. Either way, I usually, if someone comes to me for consolidation and they don't know how to sit there macros up, I will start that person, generally, at a 75/25 ratio.

Who else being equal? That means, 75% of the so-called calories are in the form of fats, and 25 is protein. Now, we know that that's not an accurate. Determination of actual energy being taken and used in any way shape or form the whole calories in calories out idea has been debunked thoroughly by myself, as well as others to the point where, you know, anyone that still doesn't grasp that obviously hasn't watched those videos carefully and they need

to frankly. So when I'm talking 75/25 that By so-called calories so called on the label. So in the way that we will sit someone's total and takes up again, all things being equal, as you would say, okay, one point 75 grams of protein intake, Per kg of Ideal or lean body mass is the starting point for a person who is active.

But not An athlete sort of thing. and you would adjust Up and Down based on the hunger satiety, signaling that that person will get over the first few weeks and until we Garland this sweet spot and obviously the rest of the diet is made up with fats which are sort of Approximated to being 3/4. Of the total so-called caloric intake over and above that protein. So I sit someone's protein. Level up first. And that was one point seven, five grams per pound per kilogram.

You said the kilogram of lean or ideal Mass gotcha. So if you've got someone, who is carrying a lot of extra weight or is very underway, what you would do is you would reverse engineer from the BMI calculation, And say what would this person way if there? BMI was. 22.5, which would be the ideal number right in the middle of the healthy range. And then you would use that weight as their calculator, ball lean or ideal body mass obviously.

A hypertrophy athlete. A bodybuilder is going to have a BMI, which is vastly above that, if they are at all successful in their body building Endeavors, right? That person you would use their actual mass because those guys, and those girls, don't usually tend to carry a lot of body fat. So you can just take their weight as their lean weight and that's what would use to subserve. The protein intake. That's solid. Most there when it comes to metabolism and calories, we kind

of touched on that a little bit. There's been a lot of people in the nutrition space. You probably know who I might be referring to that point to, you know, if people are not losing weight, then by definition, they're simply not in a deficit and I understand where they're coming from there, but I've definitely noticed. A lot of people who have chronically under nourish themselves for an extended

period. The time the metabolism down regulates and they have a hard time, preserving any degree of lean tissue and, you know, hormone function down regulates everything just seems to, you know, become depressed. How does one go about? You know, improving that situation? Like if someone is trying to lose body fat but they have chronically under eaten? Are they not losing body fat or how is that situation in your mind if you're looking at it from a non calories in, calories

out, you know? Mechanical system. Yeah, on a case-by-case basis. I may or may not with any given client used the following. There is a procedure which has been put together not by myself by others. I've checked it out. I've done it myself. It worked. It worked incredibly well, in fact and it's called priming. It was put together by a bloke.

I know called Raymond neighs on Coach Raymond who Who is part of the steak and butter gang, which is run by Bella the steak and butter girl and they have a coaching program that they're running through with people. And one of the tools in their share of tools is this thing called priming and priming works

really. Well for someone who is in a situation where everything was sluggish, everything's messed up hormone Ali. They can't seem to shed excess weight or indeed gain weight of the vastly. The weight, whatever. And this whole thing is designed around, resetting, their hormonal levels, their endocrine system, their ability to function as a human being.

Again usually these people have gone through yo-yo, dieting in the so-called caloric restriction diet for years and at that mess themselves up that way and they need to be put, right? So here's what priming is. Three solid meals a day. Of. The so-called of of an amount sort of around about the so-called caloric intake that a person would intake.

Across an entire day. Hmm. So there's you know, three times, your caloric intake, your normal, caloric intake, all the normal, what the normal caloric intake should be Plus snacks in between those three meals and every single meal, the idea is to fill yourself to the point of rifting to absolutely pokin every last ounce of food that you can possibly get in consistent with food being the muscle Meats. And Associated fats of large ruminant animals. No plant material whatsoever or

anything. Derived from a plant or any of that kind of nonsense. So basically you eat until you feel like I'm literally going to burst here and the weight your four hours or so in you repeat that process and you do that for two weeks silent. Your total caloric intake. If you were counting calories, would be quite enormous over those two weeks in my case. My usual normal so-called caloric intake. If I was counting, those things would be in the 1800 to 2000. K, calories range.

I personally on my priming journey, I was consuming six and a half thousand calories. Give or take about 250 every single day for 14 days. Solid, as a lot of food. It's a lot of food and a lot of people think her are.this is fantastic. I can eat all I want and then some what you'll understand within about the first seven days is this is not fun. This is not great. This is torturous. It's really unpleasant. It's really hard to do. It's nasty.

It's I can't describe how awful it is to do to force food into your body in that way. What it does though, is it gives your body the signal that plenty is here. We are in a time of Plenty, I can absorb all the nutrients are, my body's been lacking, I can reignite those, those fires. If you like that, have been basically quashed down over the years. Is I can replace my body stores, all these nutrients by hormonal system can return to normal, everything's great. And that's generally what

happens. And then after that two weeks of priming, you go on to a more sensible program of one meal a day at the required intake level to maintain, where you're going to be some times. When you prime, you might put on, 1015 pounds sometimes a little bit more than that during that two weeks sometimes during priming, you stay absolutely

stable. In fact, despite consuming three and four times the calories, you normally would sometimes as happened with myself, you actually lose weight while consuming vastly more calories than you normally would. How does that work? It's about the hormonal system. It's about the endocrine system. It's about the inflamed has own. It's about water retention as well or not. It absolutely clearly shows that your body composition at her go,

you'll wait on a weighing scale. Is vastly hugely affected? Not just by the amount of so-called energy units that you're consuming. and so called extending, but also due to your metabolic set up, the gearing that your body is undertaking the retention or elimination of the excess water, for example, or excess fat, for example, hormones, the endocrine system, the in phlegm has owned all Have huge impact on that. All things that these calories in calories out.

Buffoons either don't understand or choose to ignore as having an effect. Yeah. It's so it's kind of like a reverse diet but done in an incredibly condensed window of nearly two weeks. Yes. Yeah, I think that is hugely beneficial. Like, whenever I'm doing a prep, the prep itself will last anywhere from four to six months, but so many people do that prep. They do that cut and they don't ever transition to a period of Of surplus. And that's what really screws

them over. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, the exact mechanism I've been challenged on this, a number of times by calories in calories out bathrooms. That believe that what I'm saying is physiologic physiologically end against the laws of physics of The Impossible on lying about what I've related in terms of my weight loss. So far as the accuracy of a home-based electrical impedance scale as capable. They're not that accurate but they're pretty, you know they're reasonable.

That's the piece of Kit. I used to gauge my body composition as well as weight during that two weeks and what happened and I can tell you that in 14 days of consuming on average six and a half thousand calories a day, I personally lost 15 pounds That £15 consisted of 12 and a half pounds of water. And the rest was fat, my muscularity protein levels, all of that remained, absolutely rock solid as it were, of course, because I wasn't exercising, training or doing anything at all.

I was just existing. So a lot of people would say, well, eliminate the 12 and a half pounds of water, and just tell people you lost, you know, the amount of fat, I say, well, okay, great. Let's do that using your calories and calories out mentality and the fact that the vast majority of those six and a half thousand calories, where in the form of fat, how did I lose Yeah, two and a half pounds of fat in 14 days. Doing that. How does that work? Still?

Yeah, it does not cannot work. According to calories in calories out Kenneth yeah. That puts them in quite the stupor, for sure. Yeah. That stops them dead because I don't have an answer for that and I'll tell you what the answer is. The answer is my inflammation. My chronic systemic inflammation was ameliorated to such a level that my body stopped hanging onto all that water, and all that inflammatory process and flushed, all that water out. Where did the fat loss come

from? It came from oxidizing fat and my brown adipose tissue to produce. Metabolic water to keep my Baseline homeostatic, minimum water level where it needed to be because I also wasn't consuming vast amounts of fluid or anything like that. While I was doing these, this six and a half thousand calorie intake. So what we had is basically non metabolic Oxidization of fat in the brain, adipose tissue because that's not coupled to ATP production.

As such again. That I'm couples to calories in calories out thing, as yet another mechanism by which there can be uncoupled. You can also achieve the same thing using thermogenesis as an approach to burning fat. Coldwater immersion doesn't same thing Brown, adipose tissue. Uncoupled respiration that oxidized and that case for heat, rather than for water, and then the excess water produced dust Lee is excreted of the kidneys. Yeah, because that's what

happened. The calories in calories out debate. It's interesting. It's interesting that rages as hot as it does. I mean, I think there is certainly a place for, you know, tracking macronutrients being mindful of your quote unquote, caloric intake. And expenditure. But recognizing that it's impossible to quantify that with any degree of extreme accuracy, especially when it comes to the expenditure part. Like any of these wearable, you got people in 50%. Yeah, it's horrendous.

You know, like I'm all about tracking my intake. When I have a specific goal of reaching, you know, 4% body fat for a show but that's not something that people should have to rely on. I think, if people just simply return to a species appropriate, that that would likely solve 90% of their issues, Great. Yeah, the most accurate gauge of how much food you should eat. Once you've been fully carnivore for six months or more and everything.

Settle down the, most accurate gauge is your hunger signaling and your satiety signaling. Mmm. Total darkness when you feel hungry and these second, you get that message or I feel quite full. Now, stop eating, even if there are two mouthfuls of meat left on your plate, if you've got that signal, if your brain says that's enough. Now, stop Put that in the fridge. Eat it.

Next time, hungry. If you trust your body, if you because your your hunger and satiety signaling is hugely accurate, your body knows what it needs and it knows when it's got it, it's accurate when you're eating real food. When it's exactly that. That's why I say, you need to have been fully Carnival for six months to let everything settle and let your body relearn, Andre, trust itself. Totally. Because one thing that will throw all the signaling out as carbohydrates and plant toxins.

What about Dairy with with, if we're looking at things from a species appropriate diet. You know, we're weaned as a mammalian species, pretty early on, is that something that we should incorporate later in life, or no? Dairy. For me is one of those divisive an emotive issues. There are a lot of people that swear by Dairy and especially there is a sect of people that say, oh, it's got to be real though, ruled areas to go and all of this kind of stuff you. Hit the nail on the head

already. Once we are weaned from mother's milk as a mammal. We are not designed by natural selection to either seek out nor to consume any amount of milk and certainly not the milk of another species. Yeah. That said, am I against milk?

No. Because it's an individual choice in the same way that I'm not going to tell anybody what they can and can't do. I'm not going to ask for anybody to return their Carnival card or say, you know, except for that one psychiatrist, Blake. I like to throw this Limelight because it's funny. You did it wrong, you know. if somebody feels that Dairy is, Useful to them.

If they feel they do better with Gary in their life, then without if there is no obvious negative reaction to the dairy, then it's one of those things. It's not broken probably doesn't need fixing and that individual, what I say to a person that will boy you need some dairy in your life will know. That that's not part of our heritage. Yeah, except post agrarian Revolution, when we, when we started to keep animals, We started to have fields of wheat.

For example, thus, we needed oxygen to pull the plows, Etc. And do the heavy lifting Etc. Then we figured out. Oh, I wonder if we can do well by consuming the milk of these animals. Yeah, you're not a lot of other for that. What about want to be respectful of your time already in our end? But I got one more controversial topic within the keto carnivore space. I'm sure you've got an opinion on.

And that is the topic of organ meats and this is quite the rage right now, you know, from an evolutionary standpoint. I'm sure we consumed all that we could from these large ruminant animals that we had killed, but a lot of people on the understanding that organ meats are going to be there. Saving Grace, which is also little bit too far swing that pendulum One Direction there. Yeah. Again, it's a sectarian group of folks.

It's quite a large group within the carnival Community, who absolutely Square. By organs and say you must have organs you going to be deficient if you don't consume organs. That's another idea that is demonstrably false? Yeah, I am now the best part of eight years into my Carnival Journey. I have not consumed. Basically any organs at all during that time? And I am exhibiting, no deficiencies of any kind. There is no clinical symptomatology.

You could point to and say you are deficient in such-and-such with me. You're not avoiding them Percy. Just don't prefer them. Well, I am IA. Gangster, organs. No, am I drawn to eating organs know? My instinct is not to eat those. They are. They do not appeal to me and I trust my instincts. Yeah, and that Not others have an instinct where I go, you know, I feel like I want to eat almonds a great and, you know, get your face in their sort of

thing final power to you. If that's the way you think. In terms of how humans have fed themselves, there is an argument to suggest that we actually didn't consume a lot of organs, at least for a large part of that period of time because it actually looks like mostly humans weren't so much fun together. As In the first instance until we got good at hunting, well actually scavengers.

What we would often do is groups of human beings is Drive, predatory animals, like lions off their kill scare them away. Using Fire Sticks, Stones, Etc, and overwhelming numbers and take possession of those carcasses and eat what was left. Now, when a lion takes down an antelope, the first thing it will do is rip that antelope open an EV entrails. By the time, humans arrived to drive them off. Once the lines of head, the entrails, they'll go.

Is it worth dying over this muscle meat knocks? It's not so good for us as lions. Yeah, so they'll walk away, the real fine, have it and even if we had the entire kill, the organ makes make up a very small percentage of that entire episode in terms of problematics or potential problematics for my way of thinking. There's really only one organ that is really potentially problematic in the human diet. And that's liver. It is my steadfast opinion that liver should be absolutely

minimized in the human diet. If you're going to consume any at all and there are simple mechanistic speculations around the hell, it might be that liver could cause you more more damage than good if you consume more than what would be a naturally existing ratio. So think of it this way. A casual Beast. Would have. Sometimes 600 kilos of muscle meat on it. How much does a kettle beasts live away?

Got a couple pounds. I don't know, three or four pounds so that's the ratio and within your diet in which liver should be, if it's going to be the at all, it doesn't have to be. There is no requirement for liver are all. But if you're determined that you're going to eat some lover for some reason either, you like it, or you think, for some reason that it will be some kind of insurance against some kind of deficiency which doesn't exist. Anyway, but that's for another

day. Then what I would suggest to you is keep your liver and take proportionate. To the rest of your muscle meat intake at about that level that makes sense. And for those that are consuming way in surplus of that, they run the risk of with a vitamin A toxicity, probably being born the mix, that's one potential but I think that's probably the least likely problem. The more likely problem is a problem associated with copper

and zinc. Mismatched misspelt lunch, which then has a bunch of knock-on effects which Actually quickly, destroy your health and all sorts of ways and lead you to a situation where you are unable to maintain electrolyte balance has of all sorts. And it will also tend to lead you towards a propensity to have too much iron in your diet as

well and your body I should say. copper is highly highly toxic in an amount above the requirement, which is minuscule and human and That's to be avoided in my mind for that reason. Never mind the vitamin A Thing. Yeah. Yeah. Plus. I mean, shoot a ribeye tastes better than deliver any day of the week, anyway, God. And again, that's just my personal Instinct, my personal, you know, visceral, excuse the

pun, visceral reaction. You put a plate of liver in front of me and I'm going to say, no, thank you. Yeah, but a plate of steak in front of me, and I'm going to Young that down. No total, totally agree with you there. Totally agree with you. We'll shoot man. We're already past an hour in and I'd love to keep chatting because you, you're just a wealth of knowledge but I'm going to end with one final question. Which is simply what's got you

excited? Now, as far as the nutritional aspect of things is concerned, I mean, we we can, I know you're excited about continuing to make music play the guitar, which is awesome. But as far as the nutritional realm, what is the what's on? What's on your mind, right now, right? Okay, so, in terms of the messaging around the species-appropriate species-specific ancestrally 2.4 human beings. My message has been consistent for the last five years.

There are very few commentators out there who have been. As consistent as me, whose message has not changed and it's because the facts have not changed. So I'm excited about continuing to spread the word continuing to tell the truth continuing with that message unchanged because it is not going to change. I have done the research already all of it and I am absolutely clear and unequivocal and I agree with myself entirely as to what that should be.

So I'm going to continue to spread that message as long as I have energy to do it and I'm going to continue to call out people who say stupid things on the internet and point out where they're wrong. I'm going to continue to have fun with these different characters, like the field, Marshal, and yellow tip and all of that and excetera.

Also I have had a thing. I'm excited about mostly at the moment and ongoingly as I've had a 12 12 and a half year association with a supplement company that promotes a nutraceutical product line. So this is not even particularly nutritional supplementation which is really not necessary. If you're on a species appropriate diet, you don't need to supplement with anything nutrition wise. It's all there. This is a nutraceutical. Which has specific effect medicinal effect.

If you like it's an extract from a Bluegreen bacteria so I enter back. Do that lives in this one Lake in the u.s. happens to be an upper Klamath Lake in Oregon where it lives and there's a there's a chemical substance that they've found in this thing that they've extracted cleaned

up filtered activated into a into a working. during product, if you like and they've been selling the stuff for about 30 years now, various companies have had sway over the thing and various different iterations and stuff the current Company that markets, this product has been around for about six years.

I've been a retail customer of this stuff for about what I was for about 10 years, buying the stuff retail and then About three or four years ago, I got an opportunity to be an affiliate marketer of the product. And I figured well I, you know, the stuff makes sense. It does exactly what it says it does. Here's the peer-reviewed literature that says it does what it says it does. It's changed my life.

I believe completely and for the better and here's an opportunity for me to spread that word around. So that's what I'm spending a lot of energy doing. These days and people who want to find out more about that can have a look at a video that I posted on my YouTube channel. I think it was on the 30th of January of two thousand twenty three and it's an interview with a naturopath called Linda ha

guard. Who is the woman who introduced me to this particular company and product about 12 years ago? And for those who want to know what it is, it's a product that encourages your bone marrow, to release your adult stem cells into your bloodstream. And then those adult stem cells will run around your body and they will identify tissues and cells in need of renewal or repair. They will bind to those tissues dissolve, the old cells, and replace them with brand new ones.

Incredibly powerful and now suggest someone said someone use this. If they have a particular ailment or uses like prophylactically, it says I would suggest that all adult human beings anywhere around the world that can possibly access this product, it's available in about 60, different countries and territories around the world. Currently I would suggest that anyone that can should get their hands on this product and use it

on a daily basis. Reason, being that every year that you are on this crazy Rock going around, the Son your ability to release your own adult stem cells goes down. It drops by the year. It's one of the reasons we age and die. It's not the only one, but it's

an important one. What this product does, basically, is it removes that blockade to releasing those adult stem cells, it sets the clock back to when you're in your Prime and means that your ability to have the circulating stem cell resources to renew repair, replace tissues as more like what it was when you were kind of an 18 year old kid, What did you notice? When you started taking it on a

consistent basis? My particular story is that when I was 39 years of age, I was diagnosed with Advanced wet macular degeneration which is a condition which invariably leads a person to lose their sight. Hmm. Within a five-year period from the onset of the disease process to the point of legal blindness. You can still see cut color, you can still see light but you will no longer be able to resolve shape. You can see movement. But legally, you'll be blind, you won't be able to read.

You won't be able to drive all of those things will be a thing of the past. Some people lose their sight to the point where they actually lose their sight entirely they go completely black as well. I was told at 39 years of age that I had this condition and that the eye specialist that was looking at my eyes said I've never seen a case as advanced as this in a man. Your age usually happens around about 70 years of age, if it's going to happen.

And he said, love this. I'm sorry, but there's no hope there's nothing we can do here. And you're just going to have to prepare yourself for this blindness, basically. And it was around about serendipitously was around about that time that I came across this company, this product, and I started to take the product immediately and within six months, my vision returned to normal vision for a man, my age at that time. Any analyst response at all?

No, no not at all. It's a really clean product that's been filtered and activated and and there are probably a handful of people that have had any kind of adverse reaction to it over 30 year existence of this thing. Certainly no fatalities. And these are people that might have got a rash or might have got loose stool for a week or two while their body adjusted to the stuff. But mostly people notice no negative side effects at all,

and whatever it is that needs. Renewing and repairing in their body as per the The body decide what the stem cells will be used for as such. We are not allowed to make any therapeutic climb. So I am not claiming this product fixed my eyesight. I'm saying my eyesight, which I was told, could not be repaired. By any means. Known to Medical Science, somehow has been repaired. It is associated with my taken of this product, but I am not claiming this product caused it. I'm not allowed to.

Yeah, you fill in the blanks for yourself. Yeah. So what he was going on for you, whatever. Your body decides is something that needs fixing. If you have an increased level of adult stem cells in your blood stream to achieve it, it's more likely that your body will achieve that. And what is your affiliate link or what is the best way for people to dive deeper into that product.

It very, very simple, Gobi kar-wai nutrition, all one word, all lowercase, dot, some rule, which is CER, you Ellie. E.com, there's a lot of information there. There's also a bunch of videos about all of this on my YouTube channel under a playlist called adult stem cell related videos

or something like that. Or you can drop me an email and you'll find my email address on the about tab on the front page of my YouTube channel and you can drop me an email and ask me your questions about it. The final thing I will say about this product and then I'll shut up about it. Is that when an adult stem cell differentiates into a brand-new cell of whatever kind that your body requires it to be, I say brand-new selling, I really mean brand-new because that new cell

has a A full-length telomere. Now, telomeres every time a cell divides the telomeres get shorter and shorter to the point where it gets to a level where it gets so short that the DNA phrase forced to B and that cell line dies off. So when your skin cells divide for example, the age of those skin cells is partly, largely determined by the length of the

telomeres. At the time of that cell division, If you could encourage your skin cells for example to release skin cells stem cells, and bring those forward, rather than having to Old skin cells, you'll have one brand new one which can then divided into two brand-new ones Etc. In other words, might this be some sort of Fountain of Youth. Perhaps again, that's not a therapeutic claim, it's just another pointer to the power of this product.

Well, it certainly didn't seem like it would hurt and if you're pairing that with a speech is appropriate that you're really setting yourself up for success. I would have all my thoughts. Oh yes. Well I will certainly linked accounts to that. I'm curious to dive a little bit deeper, learn more myself and your YouTube channel. What is it called? If people want to search that

drug guy. So I have about five or six YouTube channels that I run the main one and I call it the main one purely because it's the one with the highest subscriber count. The main one is called Bart k nutrition. Science. And or what you can just do is go youtube.com forward. Slash at Bart, hyphen kaay and you'll find it all my other channels. Some of which are also related to health and nutrition and some of which are not like one of them is my singing guitar channel.

One of them's in New Zealand nature channel, for example, but every single one of those channels, as you link underneath all the videos on my main channel. So you can find it every one of my YouTube channels from there. Well, I'm definitely have to check out. You riffing on the guitar for sure.

It's tough. Well, the thing is, when I was, when I was, when I was young, I wanted to be, you know, a guitar player so badly, and I succeeded, I really am a very average guitar player, but check it out, nonetheless. Yeah, no, I'll definitely check it out, man. I can't thank you enough for taking the time above all else. I appreciate you. Having a message of consistency. I feel like one of the things that I'm most proud of is that I consider myself to be very open-minded.

I'm want to experiment, try things. See how my body responds, but as a whole, my messaging in the space has been pretty much consistent for the eight years that I've been putting out content. So when I meet other people that are consistent in their messaging, that holds a hell of a lot more weight in my book, than all these other flash in the pan influencers that are always just moving to the next big hype. So, I appreciate that more than anything.

That's my absolute pleasure, and it's been my privilege to spend this time with you. Thank you so much. Handsome, go. Well, thank you. So, take care and talk soon from right? See you later. See you later.