What is going on ladies and gents? Robert Sykes keto Savage.com and today I have special guests Tanya Pennington on. WE delve deep into a lot of different things. I've got a lot of respect for her based off her approach to nutrition training. We just drove deep. It was good. She's competed in the past extensively with Crossfit and she's now doing Spartan races, but she also used to compete in
figure. So we dove into what her nutritional protocol was then and then now that she's keto, how she's Implemented and change that to for her clients. And honestly was kind of strange because her protocol. And my protocol is pretty much the same. Not going to say the same, but it's very similar. So it was cool to see and hear somebody else's approach and see
how it mirrored. A lot of the same things that I do and it works so huge set out to her there for finding something that works well, and then preaching that as a healthier alternative to what a lot of people are doing out there. And on top of that, we talked about sex at the Spartan races, I dove into that with her because I've been intrigued by that Sport and I'm considering doing that at some point in the future and we also do of into a
nutritional therapy. She's a nutritional therapist. We talked about how she incorporates different foods, how she helped improve the absorption of the fat in her diet, which we talked about a lot of things. So sit back, relax. Hope you enjoy the podcast with Tanya Pennington. And we're live Tonya Pennington. How are you doing, great? How are you doing?
I'm doing wonderfully. Well, I'm excited to talk with you because I was talking to Crystal and she had mentioned that you'd helped her son with her prep and I just really respect and look to other female competitors that are doing the hard things outside of just competitions in and general. But I mean, you've done a whole bunch.
Bunch of Spartan races. Like you're doing impressive things, following a ketogenic protocol as a female and I feel like those stories need to be voiced so that more people know that it's possible. Yeah, so dive into your background as a nutritional therapist. I just want to kind of give me some background and give the our listeners a little little insight into what got you into the space. Okay, well, I've actually been in this industry for 20 years now and my passion for health
and fitness really began. It begin in high school and I think a lot of it was, you know, kind of looking around at my family, really on both sides. My mom's side, my dad's side. And, you know, not everybody is the healthiest and I thought, you know, I really don't want to end up in that place. And so, I actually one week after graduating, high school became a personal trainer and was just thought I had, you know, hit the jackpot. It was my dream job.
It was everything I ever wanted to do and I loved it. I continue to To do that for years, went on to get my degree in kinesiology with the concentration. And exercise, science actually competed in my very first figure competition and 2001. So I'm definitely dating myself now. And at that point, my whole goal in life was to own a gym. I thought that's there was no question in my mind. That's what I was going to do because of my passion for what it was that I did.
And so one thing that my mom had always told me is whatever it is that you think you want to do in life, make, you know, really make sure that you're working in that area for a period of time. So that you, you know, you actually know what it's all about. And so I went into Jim management, I was a general manager of several gyms, I enjoyed it. However, I just couldn't help, but notice how many people were coming in and out of there and I
mean, working their butts off. I mean, just the intensity was through the roof and they were sweating. And but a year would go by and just no change, no change to their body composition and you know, that's what they were working for. They wanted that change. And that's when I really started switching over to okay, I need to focus more on this nutrition side of things because nobody's going to outwork a poor diet. Unless, you know, there are In year old male, right, right? And so yeah.
So I really started looking into the nutrition side of things and actually switched my career over to getting involved with the nutrition and supplement stores. And so I did that for years. I actually managed supplement stores and I continue to compete in figure competitions as well. And then I finally opened my own supplement store which I currently still have today. So I have a brick and mortar Total Nutrition.
And with that, I knew I wanted to be able to help people further beyond what I was currently doing. Which was, you know, helping people with customized meal
plans. I was coaching figure and bikini and physique athletes at that point, but I wanted to be able to help at a deeper level and that's why I chose to continue my education to become a functional, nutritional therapy practitioner a certified, diabetes specialist, And a restorative Wellness practitioner which allows me to really go into the digestive healing. So I'm able to specialize in Fat Loss, digestive healing optimizing performance and I can do it all through nutrition and
lab testing in the lab. Testing is really an important aspect to all of it so that we can really become holy healthy and find the root cause of things. Because you know, we're looking at everything with a functional perspective. And so and that's kind of where it leaves me today is I've got my brick and mortar store.
I've got my nutritional therapy, practice nourish to thrive which I run out of my office inside of my Total Nutrition location as well as I work remotely with clients and I continue to coach competitors. I've got both bikini and figure who are competing, currently I compete in Spartan races and half marathons and Yeah. So that's where I'm at now.
Lots of different Avenues. I want to take this with regard to the nutrition and kind of emphasizing that when you when you started getting into it it's funny cuz I feel like a lot of people have that background, they start to think that training is kind of like the main determining factor to how your composition looks, and that gets most of the attention.
And so, as what I did, when I was a teenager, I just trained in the gym at next nutrition was kind of an afterthought and I feel like people put these percentages on it like, oh, it's you know, 75% training, 25% diet. But I think the more I learn, I think it's more more. The flip-flop of that more more so than nutrition. Anything else? Absolutely, I mean, gosh and 75% might even be low for the nutrition side.
Totally, totally. So when you get into, you know, the keto diet, you've been doing that for a while. Now what what did you find in doing your nutritional therapy studies? Working with the clients. Like what led you down that path to become more more? Emphasizing of the, the fat a Temptation, you know, it really all kind of began because it seemed that whatever a person was dealing with. Whether we were talking, you
know, digestive issues. Or if we're talking diabetes, if we're talking inflammation, adrenals thyroid, it all came back to the foundation of stabilizing, your blood sugar levels. And so when you look at it from that aspect, if that's where we need to start, no matter which way. We're going or no matter what it is, that we're trying to heal. What's the best way to balance? Our blood sugar levels and that would be to control our
carbohydrates. Because any time we're playing with carbohydrates, it's kind of like, we're always chasing them. And so, it's like, they kind of can't be trusted, you know? And so if we can pull the carbohydrates out while increasing our good quality fat intake, then we just get this beautiful balance of blood sugar levels, that then allows us Us to move on beyond that to do the work that we need to do totally agree. There's a pretty bad.
I mean it's interesting for me that you are, you know, coach to these bikini and figure athletes because I feel like the bodybuilding industry as a home is probably going to be one of the last demographics to really Embrace keto. As has a, you know, option for contest prep nutrition. I feel like they often times body body. Builders are pretty ignorant. They just think that they're
doing key. Simply when they take out the carbs whereas in reality, they're still way too high on the protein, not in taking enough fat. So do you feel like you've been getting a bunch of resistance from that space and being a coach for figure athletes to do a ketogenic prep well. So number one, I definitely agree with you about that space being the last to embrace a ketogenic approach. And yes, I've had so many clients, come to me and say, oh yeah, I don't want to do keto
for my prep with you. Because I've tried that before and it didn't work for me. And so I always ask and I say well can I see what plan you were on before? So that we can just confirm that what you were doing was actually a ketogenic protocol. Never trying to step on another coaches toes, but if I'm able to kind of share with them that, you know, here's how it's actually going to look different
for you. Then they generally jump on board and because a lot of people, the people who come to me for coaching, it's always through a referral. It is certainly not my, it's not Thing that I'm doing to make money that's kind of like my it's just my passion. I enjoy staying involved in the industry so I always like to have just you know a small team that I'm coaching and so it's usually somebody who's been referred by somebody. So there's already that trust there.
So I don't generally tend to have too much of an issue. Getting them to do, you know, to go the keto route and I explained to them that in my experience and I have a lot of years of experience with this one of the The main reasons why I like to use a ketogenic approach aside from gosh, it takes a lot of the guesswork out of your prep.
It takes a lot of the guesswork out of peak week, but also I think most important is what happens, you know, post-show or between shows if they're doing multiple shows because the rebound effect, when somebody has faulted followed, a ketogenic protocol is just so much less at least in my
experience than when I would. What I used to coach, without a ketogenic protocol, or when I used to compete without a ketogenic protocol, there is just something about that rebound effect that it's easy for a female. A female to put on 20 pounds within a matter of weeks, post show. I totally, totally green. I feel like none of the people talking about this. So I'm definitely going to take this opportunity to just dive deep because I feel like it needs to be highlighted.
I mean, I personally gained 20 pounds, 24 post, 24 hours, post show after my first competition, which was just not healthy. That was obviously before key do. But with her, you mentioned peak week and kind of simplifying your Peak Week by leveraging, a ketogenic diet for your contest prep. So, what is, what does that mean? Exactly, in your words?
Like, I know how I work with my clients during peak week on keto, but I'd love to hear your take on that and kind of how it's easier more sustainable than traditional bodybuilding bro, diets. Sure. Yeah. So the the Bro way I guess is just so much more complicated because we have this theory that it's like okay pull out the carbs.
That way you empty your glycogen stores and flatten your muscles and make sure you're drinking a bunch of water at that point and then you're going to drop your water. And now we're going to eat a bunch of carbs and all those carbs are going to go directly into your muscles and fill them up as if we get to choose, you know, exactly where these carbs are going to go and you know, you're playing this game with. You know, hoping that you don't spill over.
But also hoping that you get full enough hoping, you don't look too flat shoot. Do we need to cut your water more, do we need to increase your carbs more, which is it? And so you're just, you're just chasing, you're chasing carbs, you're chasing that whole game and when you take that aspect out of it, oh my gosh. It beats, just becomes it becomes so much easier first and foremost, a person needs to be ready for their show a week before the show.
Totally agree. And if you feel that you need to, you know, cut and empty and fill up and you know, do all these things and going, I don't think that person is holding water necessarily. I think they're holding fat. And so if we can just be prepared the week before, there's really not a whole heck of a lot that you have to do coming up to show day. So I might pull out some veggies and things that I might think could potentially cause some bloat, you know, to make sure. They're there.
They don't have any bloke coming into the show. I'll increase their proteins a little bit that week as we get toward the end of the week, I will increase the fats. And as a matter of fact, what I have my athletes do now Friday night before the show is eat, this wonderful thing called an Omega key do pizza. And would you like I got that from you? Oh, I thought it said a little for me because I made that one with the fish so that's what you're using the that fish. Pizza that I made.
Yes, yes. Oh, wow, that's awesome. On one of my athletes who was very willing to give it a go and gosh, not only did she love the taste of it? But it really, you know what? That sodium content that you have in there and the ratio of your proteins to your fats, does wonderful things. And it's interesting because I will have my athlete. Send me their weight and pictures Friday morning. Go through a trial on Friday. So I might do this a couple weeks out from the show a few
weeks out from the show. I have them go through their Friday. I have them eat that pizza in the evening and then Saturday morning, I have them. Send me their weight and pictures again and we see what's happened. And it's gosh, nine times out of ten. Each athlete drops about two to three pounds just by just by doing that, which is really interesting. So there's just a lot more control. When you take the carbs out of the equation. I definitely want to dive into
this. Because I want to just Echo and emphasize what you just said, because I totally agree and it sounds like our Protocols are pretty similar. So first thing you said that, I totally want to highlight is that people need to be ready like a weekend out before peak
week. I mean people I'm amazed at how many people come up to me and they just have this illusion of themselves assuming that they're going to do some crazy water manipulation and then look 30 pounds leaner in Of 24 to 48 hours and it's just, it's just total ignorance. I mean, if you're not ready, I mean you should be looking amazing, several weeks out from the show, totally independent of any water or caloric manipulations period, like that,
that should be the standard. And if you're expecting to see some miraculous change during peak week, then then you haven't given yourself enough time or done the Prep properly, so I think we can both agree on that, for sure. You know what? And I, yes, we are in such agreement but what I I also who I want to place the blame on there is, I want to place the blame on the coaches because it's the coaches that put this in the minds of their athletes.
That oh, don't worry Peak Week. Everything's going to change. And I know personally, coaches, who load their athletes up on 325 gallons of water a day at the beginning of the week, having them ingest, soy sauce, drink, pickle juice, all These things to retain all of that water and then they drop the water down. 20 oz, cutting all of that, sodium. I mean, all of these things. So, it's really the coaches.
I think that I've put this in the athletes mind and so, you know, and it just kind of goes throughout the industry that way. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I am not the world's greatest coach painting means, there's a lot of things that I need to learn. Still, I learn something new every day, but I am. I'm pretty. I'm just in disbelief and some of the advice that I've seen coaches put out there for their contest prep. Clamps. I mean it's honestly just dangerous.
I mean it's not safe to have such a flux in your body's hydration and electrolyte levels especially when you're that depleted. And you know that physically active and Extreme as as you are at the end of a contest prep. I mean that's like the worst environment for having these crazy manipulations with your nutrition, your water and take your electrolytes, like the closer you can get to just what you see. Staying on the normal day-to-day basis during Peak Week, the better.
I mean, I percent know what you're doing, but I personally don't even manipulate water during Peak Week. Like, like they stay hydrated throughout the entirety of it, which I think is, is better. I mean, your body, you shouldn't have to dehydrate the point of, you know, muscle exhaustion, right. Exactly. Because then you just you feel horrible. And I've actually had an experience. Gosh, this was probably 2000 and Might have been 2006 or so where I actually at registration passed out.
Yeah, and it would sadness. That's that's pretty common, like a lot of people have that issue. Yeah. And I had at that point, a coach who was having the drink, you know, nothing but distilled water. And, you know, so it's like you said, you change all of these things that week of and we think that we like to expect what the outcomes going to be, but we can't because we've just changed everything throughout the, the bulk of the prep. Do you normally have?
I got nobody's difference can be different, macros different, ratios for everybody. But in working with the clients that you have, have you noticed that they tend to perform better at a higher. Higher fat Ratio or a higher protein intake, you know, it's definitely different for each athlete. So I kind of have a place where I start the athletes at initially and then I start to kind of manipulate the proteins in the fats. And I, and as we go along, I like to bring the fats down,
increase the proteins. And I will say that that works really well for a lot of my athletes to where we get to a point where proteins and fats are actually Equal in terms of grams and however, there will be some athletes where I kind of start going that same, you know, decreasing increasing on the proteins and fats that way and then the fat loss stops. So then I'll back it up again and I start bringing the pro Town, protein down again and the fats backed up again, and there
we are. We're back on track. So it's really a matter of there's, you know, there never is. Just one way, it really has a lot to do with with the athletes themselves. You know, we're just we're all bio individuals and so you know we all respond a little bit different. Totally agree. What about like total caloric
intake? Have you noticed, you know, with a keto approach versus a car based protocol with their total caloric intake, is at the onset versus what it, tapers down to there during peak week, is there much of a variation there between the carbs in the Ketone? Protocols, Kyoto, protocol's.
You know, I definitely noticed that with the keto, protocols, the total caloric intake generally tends to be lower both at the start and as we go along and then by the end, it just generally is a little bit lower and I think that has a lot to do with just kind of the, the say shitty that comes along with it and, you know, not increasing, not having those carbohydrates to make you hungry. And, you know, because I used to
do before I was doing the key. A genetic approach I would do a lot of carb cycling with my athletes and this, this would be, you know, say a decade ago in this actually has a lot to do also with. Hmm. Maybe a ketogenic protocol would be better. Because what I would notice is I would do this carb cycling where you know, on Monday, they would get x amount of carbs and Tuesday a little bit less and Wednesday a little bit less and
Thursday a little bit less. There would be two days where I would take out the carbs drive up the fat. And the person would just feel all of a sudden, good that day, they had energy that it have dips and drives all of those things. And they would always say gosh, I would be so excited for my car because I thought I was going to be So Satisfied to have all those carbs, but all I wanted
was more carbs on those days. All I was was more hungry on those days and so you know, you really start to listen to those things and you can't ignore it and you go, okay. And that's when I really started looking into, you know, that insulin. Effect and in that, that hunger,
you're driving up that hunger. And so, yeah, with the ketogenic protocol, I find that generally speaking the caloric intake tends to be a little bit lower and perhaps that also is because of the, you know, muscle sparing capabilities of the ketones. Do you find that there's any - what? Let me rephrase the question, I feel like a lot of people in the
space specially competitors. They they're just Chronically eating at a deficit and will definitely get into the reverse that Parks. I know we have a lot to do a lot about the ketogenic diet can be applicable from the reverse diet standpoint but as calories drop for the contest prep, do you notice that at a lower caloric intake?
The athletes that are following a ketogenic protocol home seem to be outperforming those that have a slightly higher caloric intake but with a card-based broke, I feel like the nutrient absorption and Level of adaptation, when following a ketogenic protocol at times of, you know, caloric deficit, like when you're doing a in a prep you're going to perform better with the Ketone based diet. 100% 100%.
So if I compare athletes that, I was coaching before, not on a ketogenic protocol to the athletes that I coach. Now, only on a ketogenic protocol. It's like they're just fine. They're okay. Energy is good. Every time I ask them peak week, I just doesn't matter, they're just good and I'll see, you know, because I have my brick and mortar store.
I have customers who come in who have other coaches and No, they're nearing their show and they just walk in like zombies and I see them and I gosh you know I go gosh that really just it brings back memories. It brings back memories to mild preps and it brings back memories of, you know, athletes that I used to coach. And here they are. And I just, you know, you just want to tell him, it doesn't have to be that way. It really doesn't. And I, you know, I'm very careful.
Like I said, I don't want to step on other coaches toes and, you know, especially coaches at live in my area and that sort of thing. I, you know, have respect for all of them. But yes I 100% And in agreement with you on that and I know again it was gonna be different. But have you noticed like a just on average?
Like if you were to take all your your female competitors and average what their lowest caloric intake is, you know, during that Peak Week period, what does that number tend to be around? Like what window is usually what you're saying? If I had to say an average during peak week would probably be somewhere? Around 12:00 12:00. He's a free competitors that I'm assuming her way in between, like, 110 to 130 somewhere in that ballpark. Yes. I would say, even gosh, 108 up to maybe.
Yeah. Maybe 130 hi-yah about 130. Yep. And that's what we've gotten down to. And then when they reverse dieting, where they tend to like, where they start to normalize like hormonal e metabolically, what caloric intake when they're building back up, they tend to To normalize that. So generally around depending on the athlete generally end up, you know how much muscle they have and that sort of thing. I see them do pretty well.
Up around the 1802 about 2,200 once we have reversed all the way back up. Yeah, I think that is that is huge and a lot of people want to make sure they need to listen is podcast. Doesn't hear that 1,200 number and think that's what sustained indefinitely because a lot of people come to me and they're like oh I've been eating 1200. Diaries for the last eight months and nothing is changing. And that, that's that happens way too often like way too many people are eating way too little.
So having that because that, that period of time is only like a week or two and are you doing high calorie days during that Peak Week, period? Just toward the end. I'll do a high-calorie. It's not toward the beginning, Friday, the day before the show. Usually, yeah, yeah, that's what I do as well. So, while calories are super low, at the lowest, they still get one high-calorie day to kind of offset that really low calorie intake, which I think is
also hugely important. Like people, it's interesting like when you do competition prep, when you work with athletes going through a competition, Prim, you have a much better pulse on how the body is responding to the different color. Manipulations you're making and how it's impacting their hormones and metabolism and all
that comes with that. And that's a concept that I feel like a lot of people just simply wouldn't never really had the opportunity to get insight on because you just get such a better grasp of it when you're going through a competition prep and most people frankly are not going through competition preps but the principles that apply to competitors are also directly applicable to people that are just trying to be healthier and change their body composition. Absolutely.
And you know to kind of add more to the the calorie talk. Like you said, there are a lot of people who, you know that 12:00 number is kind of in their mind a lot. Gosh, I'm not seeing any results and so when I have an athlete come to me, who does want to compete, one of the biggest pieces of the conversation that we have to have. One of the biggest discussions is, Where are you right now? How are you eating right now? What are your calories look like
right now? And so I have them track for me for a bit. So that I can see where we're starting because potentially, if this pertinent gosh, there are. There's a lot of women who, I mean, they're even down at, you know, 1,000 calories. Hmm. And so I'll let them know, you know, we're going to need a period of time to work together. Before we start your prep, we need to get you on a baseline here so I can get them set up.
And just as, you know, a customized meal plan client to kind of build them up, so that, I can, you know, get them some sort of metabolism so that we have somewhere to go because I'm not going to be able to put somebody through prep. Who's starting at 1000 calories, 1200 calories, or even 1,400 calories. I'm not going to be able to help you. Because how much more can we really cut down? Yeah. And then we have to sort of establish that Foundation.
I have that same conversation a lot and a lot of people don't want to hear that like they just want to do a prep, they just assume that it's going to be you know gravy and they could just keep cutting calories. But there's there's only so much caloric Runway, so to speak, and if you've already run out of Runway, there's there's nowhere else to go except starvation. Nobody wants that. Exactly.
But yeah, this this is good. This is this kind of stuff that I want to put out there in the spotlight because more people need to know the implications that come with you know, caloric manipulations and just chronic dieting and general. So let's dive into the reverse. So after the competition, you know, like like we kind of touched on earlier a lot of competitors have that - Rebound, put on a bunch of weight over, you know, not not very long period of time at all.
What have you noticed happening when following a ketogenic protocol? As a reverse diet compared to carbon based protocols? Gosh. It is just it's actually pretty mind-blowing to me to watch my athletes. Post-show not blow up because that was just always a given before. It's like that was just going to happen. And now with the ketogenic protocol it's actually interesting because you know you would almost think especially if it's an athlete who hadn't always been key do before.
But now they are because of competition prep you might think that they are just you know chomping at the bit for prep. Be over. So they can go back to their old lifestyle but because they realize how good they feel both just in general in life, but also comparative to other athletes that they've now met who have been zombies. They really don't want to go back to how they were eating before. So the, a lot of them are very willing to stay keto, and then we just start to titrate back up
on those proteins. And those carbs, I'm sorry and those fats, Until we can get them back up to that place. Where great. Now, we've got your metabolism back up here because being at that low metabolism for too long. That's when we start to see, you know, thyroid applications, adrenal implications, those sort of things. So it's really important to get those calories back up to a healthy place.
But doing that properly and I mean, I have to say and I worked very close closely with my athletes. I have a good bond with each of them because it's really important and I don't, you know, There's no such thing as it's show day and then see you later. You know, we still need to continue this post show and so, but yeah, I just have yet to have a keto athlete, have a major rebound effect? Post-show, do you feel what? Actually in the entirety.
So, like the prep itself, the peak week, the reverse diet, in all of that, do you notice our do you ever Implement like like carb up? Targeted carbs to cook carbs at
all for any of your athletes. Have you noticed any reason to So I have a little bit with some not all again because not all of them need it but if I have some athletes who are having major Cravings during certain times of the month or you know and it just really isn't letting up and we've increased the fats and we've done all those things that we know to usually do, I will sometimes allow them but it's it's going to be yams, you know? It's going to be sweet potatoes, something like that too.
To just get those carbs in there and see if that helps them. I might do it for one night or two nights, allow them to have that. And a lot of times, it seems to really help with that that leptin sensitivity again to where they're fine to move forward. So, I one girl right now who she's actually about to compete next weekend, not this weekend, but the next and she's one where I've had to incorporate a couple of times a month. You know, some car bucks here and there but my other two girls
one, another one is With her. Another one, just competed a couple weeks ago. I haven't had to do that with them and so, you know, it's just really being in tuned with each athlete to see what it is that they need. Do you notice that they have those carb cravings when calories at more of a sustainable higher level or is it just when calories are pretty low, you know, it's hard to say because they so rarely talked about cravings and so like with
this Ticular athlete. It's kind of just been throughout the prep when we were higher in calorie. And when we were lower, and when we are lower in calories, now, it's kind of that same feeling that she's had. Although, but those carbons have really taken care of it for her. So, you know, it's just really been a non-issue but I don't, I actually don't see Cravings increase in my athletes. As we're dropping their calories lower. I had Ali Miller on the podcast while back and we were diving
into you. Averaging carbs for women during their cycle to help normalize their cycle. And she went into detail about how that works from a biological standpoint, like the with the leptin, in the grown, in the hormones. But she basically alluded to the same thing could be accomplished just from in taking a higher,
you know, amount of food. And that this was not talking about competitors, Pacifica. So some rules may not quite apply, but just people in general, I feel like a lot of females are quick to look for carbs. As a way to satisfy our, as a way, to normalize their cycle, where in reality, it should probably be emphasizing just getting enough food. And that could be a really great Point too. Because, you know, by incorporating the extra carbs, you know, we're incorporating
more calories. And so you know maybe that that could also be accomplished by a higher calorie that, you know, higher calorie keto day. So that's certainly something worth trying as well and I'm like, you wear Gosh, I don't know everything as a coach by any means and I am always open, you know, in any aspect to to learn more to. I mean I'm just always wanting to learn more so I think that yeah that could be definitely something we're trying.
Well, it is cool for me to hear somebody else following a similar protocol. What I Implement with my own clients as well. I mean there's there's a very unique approach to going through a competition prep following legitimate, ketogenic diet not like a, you know.
Form keto diet but I can actual ketogenic diet and, you know, both of us having competed following traditional methods versus what we know and Implement now it's like the more the more competitors we see implement this that I don't know, it's just better, like people are healthier, it's more sustainable, there's less Damage, Done metabolically, hormonal e for both male and female athletes.
So it's cool for me to hear you, describe your protocol and me pretty much recognize it very To my own and know that we're sharing the same message. That's that's good. Yeah, I love that. So let's switch gears a little bit. I want to dive into what I want to go two different directions. I want to talk about the Spartan races first because I've had a few people in the podcast and they just Dove deep into obstacle course racing and my
interest has been piqued. But I have not yet, pull the trigger and pick the race so you have done your like the Spartan Race Master. Now, right? Well maybe one day, I do have because I have such a wonderful husband. He has built two rigs for me, that we have here at our house. So I do have basically every Spartan obstacle at home to practice on. So and we do those regularly and so, yeah, actually tomorrow I'll be doing the El Cajon Beast, which is a 13 to 15 mph.
Martin Rees, and that will have. I think, somewhere around 30 obstacles I've got Another couple races in November another race at the beginning of December. And then I have my big this for me is kind of like a just sort of a one-time bucket-list thing that I think I'm going to do. Because I don't I don't know that it's very smart but mid-December I'm kicking on the ultra Beast, which is going to be a 30-mile Spartan with 60 obstacles, and it's gonna be a
beast for sure. Yeah. 60 obstacles. 30 miles and Where's that one? Okay. That one will be the Central Coast in California. Is it pretty cold there in California? I don't know me. Ya know, and the code actually at the coast right now. So I was kind of keeping my eye out on the weather over there to see what it's doing and it's actually still like high 80s and even 90s some days. So I'm really hoping that it's, you know, I'm thinking it should
probably be around the 70s. The coast generally is pretty stable, year-round on their weather So I'm curious because the, the mindset of a competitive figure athletes like you were versus that of a competitive Spartan athlete like you are now, has there been a shift?
I have you changed at all in your approach to, you know, how you view competition, how you, you know what your goals are in doing that event, or has that pretty much stayed the same throughout, because I've looked at how I view competing on stage and I like competitions because it's like as its individual sports, not a team sport, I'm not a fan of team sports for me personally, it's just not my thing.
I like being able to push myself, do you get the same vibe from a Spartan or is it, is it something different entirely? So I will say that there are both similarities and differences between, you know, figure competitions. I also competed quite heavily in Cross. Competitions and now competing in Spartans. The similarity. There is that they are all individual sports. And so I like you prefer the individual aspect to all of these things.
So that 41 is a similarity that they all have but they all are a little bit different. So for me, the reason, so I actually stopped competing in figure competitions and 2012.
And I remember at that point, I was single and living on my own with my two bullmastiffs and I would date but it never really worked out because I think that one thing that we can both agree on is I'm not going to blame the reason my dating didn't turn into more I'm not going to blame it on figure competitions but it was one aspect because it's a very selfish Sport and so you know because it's all about an especially with how I was doing,
you know, I wasn't using a ketogenic Approach at that time and so it was just you know, eating 67 sometimes eight times a day. My coach had me eating the cardio that you had to do in the morning. The cardio that you had to do at night. I was, you know, the job I was working at that time was 10 hours a day and you know, then you set up photo shoots, you know, all these things. And I remember Still Loving competing but making that decision that this is going to
be my last show. I feel like I need to hang up the figure suit and just move on to something different that still allows Me to compete because that's just innately who I am. Which is when I then switched over to CrossFit, but is it going to require such a regimented routine and such a weighing of all of my food and I can't go there because they don't have the right things for me to eat. And I really don't want to go to the movies because that popcorn is going to smell too good or,
you know, all of those things. And so that was really, the main reason I stopped competing in figure, as well as You know, there's this aspect in the bodybuilding industry. One of the biggest, one of the biggest things about it is it's a you know it's a political Sport and it's all subjective. Yeah so I really wanted to enter into something that was more measured. It's like you won or you lost. You did more reps or you did less reps, you lifted more weight or you lifted less weight.
And so, I was kind of ready to just enter into something that was just more A goal. They on a judge who may be preferred a blonder over a brunette or a brunette over a blond because at the end of the day, that's what it could be which that's actually one of the other conversations I have with a lot of my athletes is don't put a lot of weight on your placing here, you know, because it's all subjective.
And so that's when I switched over to CrossFit and I would say kind of the CrossFit and Spartan thing were there, they're very similar to each other. Other what happened with Crossfit and I competed in Minnesota, I competed in Miami. I did it pretty heavily for about four years. I absolutely loved it. But the training for me, I remember the day that I cleaned 200 pounds and I thought like, what do I really want to get up to do?
I just want to keep going going going, like is my body going to be able to sustain this and I felt like I was constantly Nursing my left shoulder, I was constantly going to the chiropractor for my lower back and it's like I was spending more time trying to fix myself up and so that's kind of when that sort of all goes into. Also when I went through my adrenal exhaustion but I just kind of had to take a step back from that and the reason I love the Spartan races so much.
Now we're not dealing with all of that. Heavy weight repetitively over and over again, it's more its endurance. It's you know you are using the Your glycolytic system as well but we're not doing you know, we're not we're not cleaning. There's no reason to clean 200 pounds in your training for a Spartan Race. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense there.
I mean, from the bodybuilding perspective, I totally agree with you, on the subjectivity of the judging involved, and, you know, that that makes it hard because I am very much a data-driven, like, measurable style person. So there's been competitions that I've remember last competition, I won A division but I lost the overall and I'm pretty sure it was simply because of the the color.
Like the tan I used was it was solid but it was like a different shade than I normally use because what I normally used was sold out when I when I order the color and it was just crazy to like lose based off of the the coloring from from a definition standpoint from a symmetrical standpoint. I feel like I had had a competition hands down but the subjectivity that comes with it can without a doubt be Ting.
So I totally like, where you're going with, you know, the Spartan races in CrossFit being much more measurable. My own one knock against CrossFit is because I just feel like there's, there's so much more opportunity for injury and a lot of the movements that they incorporate. And oftentimes, you get, you know, one trainer, overseeing 70, people at some of these CrossFit Gyms. And there's no way they can really get the attention.
Give the attention they need especially for someone that's newer to the sport and doesn't really know. How to how to operate their muscles effectively? I mean, there's a lot of room for injury there. Where's with the Spartan races? It's not as injury-prone.
I wouldn't think? Yes. And so I spent a lot of time defending CrossFit when I was doing it. And, you know, because I would say, oh no, you know, you just have to watch your form and make sure that you don't, you know, don't get too crazy while you're doing the workouts. Don't push it too hard, you know, and but the reality is that's what crossed it's all about it. Is, you know, you've got the
person next to you. Everybody wants to keep up and you told yourself, you weren't gonna, you know, push it that hard. And if your form got bad, dude, slow down. But you don't, and You know toward the end, it just got to where I couldn't deny it anymore that and I absolutely love CrossFit. I personally do a lot of CrossFit style workouts.
At my house, we have a shop. We are Jim is on our shop here at the house, but it's different with me doing it here by myself, as opposed to out with, you know, a group of other people that I'm competing against is a little bit different, but the shoulder injuries in CrossFit are just, I mean it's almost across the board. Yeah, it's really hard to tell somebody. Said, an extreme athlete. Not overdo it that those words don't tend to sink in very well.
Exactly, that's exactly it. So with the Spartan races, I feel like my business. There's been several different. Don't know if they're called federation's or brands, or how they've got the, what's with the lingo is, but there seems to be a lot more obstacle course, races popping up becoming available is Spartan just from from my perspective, totally laypersons far as obstacle courses are concerned.
It seems like Kind of like the king though, you know, I don't know if Spartan is the king, or if Tough Mudder, is the king, I really am not sure. But I'll tell you, the reason I chose Spartans over Tough Mudders is because I'm sure they're very similar in many ways, but in the Tough Mudder, there is an obstacle that you have to go through where there are all these cables hanging from really high and they hang straight down and you have to Run through them and they
electrocute you. Yeah, I heard about that it does not sound appealing. Yeah and I just can't get on board with that. And so I mean I've had several people tell me how they feel like they've just been you know punched directly in their chest from that you know electric shock. And so I didn't go that way. And so I do Spartans that's a good enough reason to me I don't think anybody can argue that I've heard.
I don't know if this is anywhere close to the reality or the truth but I've heard that there's been A push to get Spartan races and I don't know if it's Sport and specifically just obstacle courses in general, into the Olympics as an Olympic sport. Is that true? Oh, I have not heard that it would be amazing. There are some really amazing Spartan athletes out there.
And honestly like from you look at all the different sports across the board and you try to find like like functional strength, they call it, you know, like you want to be able to do things in training that have a direct carry over to Improving your day-to-day function and I look at, you know, what I do as a bodybuilder and there's definitely some some crossover there, like being able to dead lift a barbell directly applies to my ability that, you know, pick up seed bags, all day
long. But I feel like, as far as anyone's Port goes being really effective as a obstacle course, athlete would have probably the most direct correlation to performing better in day-to-day activity. Yes, and I really love that idea.
I think that has a lot to do. I think that was one of the things that I really liked initially about going into CrossFit and then it's now what I really love about Spartan, which I feel is, you know, even a little bit more realistic to, you know, really being functional and and day-to-day life and really being able to, you know, pull yourself up and hold yourself up and all of those things that especially for women who generally have a really hard time with, you know,
even doing one single pull up. And you're not using carbs to do these races, right? You're sticking strictly to threat the obstacle course races in your able to write. Yeah. Function. Just fine. You know. Yeah. And I actually had tried before kind of loading with like sweet potatoes or yams because like I
said, I'm always up for. I'm always up for anything that's going to help me. So I'm willing to experiment and try different things but I can't really say that the Yen's did much for me. Me in terms of, you know, quote-unquote filling up your glycogen stores for more energy. I will sometimes on my longer runs my half marathons. I will actually utilize Manuka honey and I really like to use that before and during my races, but what I really enjoy utilizing and this is for both running.
And and for my Spartan races is the Vespa the Best bow works really, really well for really helping you utilize your body fat for energy and what is that? Exactly. I soldered conference but I haven't used it myself. Yeah, so Peter defty is the owner of Vespa and I think he was actually at Key token. I don't know if it was two years ago or three years ago, might have been three years ago.
Anyway, it turns out he lives here in my area and so so we talk regularly and I actually sell his best bet out of my store and so he's, you know, came and talked to me quite extensively about it and it's like a wasp extract, but the idea behind it is it it allows your body to use your fat for
energy. So you take a packet about an hour before you're going to race and you let it settle for about 20 or 30 minutes and then the the key to it is going on at just kind of a nice warm-up jog for about 20 minutes or so.
And then at the end that way you're kind of getting in your system and at the start line you take another packet of Vespa and and you take off And then mid-race maybe an hour in an hour and a half two, and you take another Vespa, and it just literally feels like Rocket Fuel. I mean, we're talking that these have like, five grams of carbs in them, it's, you know, next to nothing compared to like the Goos, you know. So it's a, it's a wasp extract like that extract of of what. Exactly.
It's a wasp extract. Huh. I'll definitely. Yeah. That's that's crazy. It's yeah, it's very interesting. It's incredible for he says, it's also great for athletes who are not. He do, you know, I don't know about that. But for being ketogenic, I have really enjoyed using it. And so, sometimes I'll combine it. And also use a manuka sport is the brand, but they have this Manuka Honey, which can also be utilized like a goo. But at least, you know, I enjoy the fact that it's a honey.
And the Manuka especially has so many Any benefits, so many health benefits. So for me, it's kind of like, if I am going to put any sugar in my body at all, I want it to at least have some sort of other, you know, benefits for me and it's an antimicrobial, and I'll be singing. So I feel a little bit better about that. What about like the like the you can starches, have you played around with those at all? I have not.
That's like the hot thing right now in the streets they raised playing around with you can Super Storage because it is supposedly impact your glucose. Yeah yeah. A lot of people, it's Funny. I feel like the keto spaces getting pretty experimental lately which is good. You know, the more the more people can try and test things out and see how it responds then the better. I'm curious to see, you know, where the chips fall and everything that will be interesting.
Yeah, I agree. So I got one more series of questions for you. It's related to all of your experience with nutritional therapy. So, with you being keto now and following the fat based diet, how have you what? What have you noticed with regard to your gut health? And have you noticed any adverse effects from? You know not incorporating. I'm assuming you're probably not taking in as many dietary fibers carbs as you were prior. So how has that impacted things?
Well, so I mean there's it's kind of like two things going on because you know, getting involved or getting into nutritional therapy and that whole aspect of the education. In my mind, I was going through those things because I wanted to, you know, expand my knowledge, be able to help people further and on a deeper level and what really ended up coming up. It was identifying some imbalances and things that I had going on with myself.
And so, one of the things that I have dealt with nearly my entire life was chronic constipation, and it was just something that was a part. In my life and I had accepted. And that's just how it was always going to be. And so, you know, I've actually had to, I've run a, you know, a GI map on myself and food, sensitivity, testing and to sort of identify what was going on on the inside.
Because, see one of the things was, I had switched to a ketogenic protocol and when I ran my GI my GI map test, which is a, it's a stool test and it's a DNA stool test and it's going to identify anything that's going on in your gut. It'll tell you anything that's living in your gut and he pathogens parasites, worms, anything like that? Luckily, I didn't have anything like that, going on. However, my Seattle credit level was high. Meaning, I was not digesting and absorbing my fats properly,
that's not good. So then it's not good. So then what good is a ketogenic diet going to do for me if I'm not even utilizing those fats and so I had to do it. Really take care of my gallbladder and some things. So that now I can and, you know, and I absorb and digest my fats very well. My energy is much, much higher and chronic constipation is a thing of the past. So in all of that with, yeah, I really don't intake much fiber.
And as a matter of fact while I don't you know label myself as any certain type of Quito I will say that during the week I pretty much just eat meat and organs and then on the weekends if I feel like it I might throw up. In an avocado or maybe I feel like having a salad and then maybe I don't, we just sort of depends on my mood or my husband's mood on what we feel like eating. So yeah, I really don't in. Take a lot of fiber and yet, I've never been so regular in my life.
Yeah, I honestly, follow pretty similar proko myself. I'd I don't label myself as a corner of warm because I'm not 100% carnivore. All eat, you know, a random salad or obviously. I like to keep them bricks or something like that. But I can confidently label myself as a strict, keto person, you know that? I stick this tricky do, but I feel like, you know, I don't feel any benefits. Anytime I do ingest carbs or broccoli carbs, in the form of vegetables, like broccoli or
salads, any thought that? I don't notice any benefit whatsoever if anything, I notice more of a bloat. So the only time I'll ever take it, just something to have a little bit of variety to my my you know, food pallets. That's pretty much the only reason I'm ever. Ever consuming think it's nuts, animal-based, and that's I'm
right there with you on that. Anytime I do consume it and I know that I would probably have a lot of my colleagues who would agree with me because, you know, they're very big on variety of vegetables and all those things. But any time I eat it. Yes, it's really simply out of the fact of, you know, that
sounds good right now totem. But other than that, you know, that's about it because I, you know, I get a lot of liver, I eat, cod liver, you know, beef liver, Those organs there you know if you just so dense in those micronutrients did you increase like did you have like ox bile supplementation when you were just in your there for a while and kind of getting your gallbladder producing like it should or would you do during
that period? Yeah. So why I took so generally when a person still has a gallbladder but it's not functioning properly, you don't generally want to give that person Ox bile salts because you don't want to tell the gallbladder to Sure to stop doing what it's doing, but sometimes in some more severe cases, it can be a good idea to do a bottle or two of ox bile salts. And then switch over to a gallbladder.
Support supplement, that doesn't necessarily contain the ox bile but other nutrients to support your gallbladder and that's what I did. I actually went through two bottles of the ox bile salts to get everything on track and and then now just take a gallbladder support. and, you know, those existed like particular brand that you recommend Yeah. So I usually for that we'll use the biotics research brand and what all is in it just a gallbladder support, what does
that entail? You know the the trying to think the beta TCP has the I'm trying to remember, which of vitamins it has in there. It doesn't have the aux file and I'm not remembering off the top of my head, which vitamins the beta TCP has, although I could probably find my bottle of it, but it does amazing without actually having your gallbladder. You know, think, oh, I don't need to, you know, do what I normally do with the bile because, you know, she's giving it to me.
Yeah, yeah. That makes Sense and there's never any good good that comes with supplementing. To the point of shutting down your body's own natural production. Exactly, exactly. And send you can do that sometimes for a period of time that you don't want to do it, you know, for too long. Yeah, I know that it's got the one of the really great things about it. Is, it has the it's got beets in there and beats are really good for gallbladder.
Support the only time when it's really a bummer is, if is, if a person has a sensitivity, a food sensitivity to beat them, were not able to use the beta TC P, but there's other things like Choline which is really great for gallbladder support as well which the choline is really found in egg yolks. And so if you're eating a lot of eggs that you know was very helpful too. You mentioned that during the week, you probably sticking to meet and organ meat.
So what kind of like what's a typical day of eating look like for you? I guess a good question. Well, I start off in the morning with a, I'm on a cold brew kick right now. So I generally will do some cold brew, with some raw heavy cream in there.
And I, if I, if I allowed it to, that would actually Hold me over until about, you know, maybe one or two o'clock, I do, try to eat a little, I tried to eat earlier than that because I am and have been dealing with some adrenal and thyroid issues and so it's important to make sure that my body doesn't feel like it's ever in a, you know, starvation State. And so, I will sometimes I don't like to have a heavy meal early, but I might have something like four pieces of bacon.
And I might do that sometime like around 11 or so in the morning and then and then I usually just do two meals. And so my meals might consist of you know 8 to 10 ounces of a variety of meats. Maybe some tri-tip and maybe some chicken thigh. I'll throw some cod liver in there. My next meal might be a you know, organ. Meat Burger, you know, a couple
of Patty's there. It's really simple, which I think is one of the things that I love the most about it is that it's just such an incredibly easy way to eat. So my two meals they pretty much are very similar to each other and it might just be, you know, 8 to 10 ounces of whatever meat I'm going to do and I don't really do. I don't add a lot of fats, I'm not a big, you know. I don't really add butter to things or I really enjoy fattier
cuts of meat. So I don't, you know, I really rely on my rib eyes and things like that to supply my fats. Yeah, that sounds honestly pretty similar. That what I do is well, it's crazy how similar our Protocols
are here, that's funny. Yeah, I feel like the it's just honestly liberating to be able to eat, you know, once if you wanted to but on a normal day to day, you know, two meals a day and you're good and it doesn't have any kind of negative impact on on your training inability to perform whereas you and I both come from, you know, eating six to eight meals a day. There's just there's no life that comes with that.
I mean your whole world revolves around food whereas with keto it's just you can you can have your life back and you can be free from all the strain of, you know, revolving, everything you do every decision. You make every where you go around. What you're eating that day. Yeah, I mean, I remember when I was competing and I would wake up at 3 a.m. so So that I could eat my eggs in my oatmeal. Before I drove to the gym to work out at 4:30. I mean, that's like being a prisoner.
Yeah, it's not, not sustainable, not now, not with any degree of actual enjoyment. I'm curious. Have you seen the game changers documentary? Gosh, I have not yet but I'm planning to my husband and I actually have plans to watch it on Sunday after we get home from the race this weekend. I I see a bunch of posts being made a better and I guess it was just released here recently. Yes, I watched it this past week with, with Danny and Adam, Danny Vega and it was, it was interesting.
I mean, we, all three are key do. So it was, it was kind of like a. It's just, I'd be interested to get your take on it when you do watch it, because having heard what you said about everything that you've done and have done in the past and what you're doing. Now I think we got a pretty similar to approach to, you know, an attrition. So I'd be curious to get your feedback on an FDA after you watch it. Yeah, I'm both.
Looking forward to and cringing at the at the thought of watching it. Well, I will say this, the actual production quality was really good like the the, you know, the way they put the film together was really impressive, the content, the actual content of the film was not so much but the the production quality which is kind of unfortunate because since it was so well, polished, I feel like it's going to steal a lot of people that direction and the there's just it's just
Lacks the science and the research, you know. Well and that's why I'm cringing because I'm thinking, you know, that it must have been a well-made documentary because I'm seeing even people in my local area. So there's an acquaintance that I have here.
He actually owns a Mexican restaurant in the area here and he, he runs gosh, I think he just did a half Ironman and so, you know, he's pretty active and all of a sudden Sudden he's posting these pictures of his food, you know, and hashtagging game changers and it's just obviously everything meatless. And I'm thinking know how on Earth this guy who I know has
been a big meat eater. I mean, you know, he's Mexican which in and I am too, so I can say that, you know, we generally are not vegetarians and so now, you know here he's going vegan after watching that documentary I mean, just like that and I feel like it's happening with people. So so Do I have to watch it? Yeah I feel like you know all of
us in the keto space. I owe it to ourselves to watch it because I feel like that just gives us more leverage that we need to be educated on what everybody's doing and why they're doing it. If we're educated. Then we can have a greater impact because we know we can become part of the conversation as opposed to just being this ignorant biased and of the just shout slander from the
sidelines, you know. Like I want to be in the know and I want to know why people are gravitating towards one protocol over another But it was, I was unimpressed with the research, it was just it was very deceptive, and kind of how they laid things out, and it was just honestly bad information, a lot of it. So now I wasn't too impressed with the quality of the information itself so hopefully people will watch it. And recognized that there were
definitely some blind spots there that they need to do a little bit of homework on themselves and not just take it at face value. As fact, you know, yes, and I am in agreement. If you, I think that it's very much our responsibility to make sure that we are, we do watch these things because, you know, because I am going to have clients, which I'm surprised I haven't yet. But I am going to have clients, come to me and say, hey, how about that, you know, game changers?
And I need to be able to say more than. Oh, just don't listen to that. Yeah, definitely definitely what Sonia? I would sit here and talk to you all day long, but I've already taken up over an hour of your time. Will definitely do it again though. I'm like I said, I'm In to follow along and see what you're doing and why? Because I respect everything, you said this far. And I feel like we do have a pretty similar approach to why we're doing things, the way we are.
So I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. Yeah, I have very much enjoyed this. And would love to talk again, 100%. Well, where can people go to find out more about you and learn something? Oh, yes. And actually, before I give that information, let me also say that I'm ready to be your first wholesale account for keto bricks, when you guys are ready. Oh, well, that's, that's awesome
news. We're actually working on getting all that set up. Right now, we're trying to get some packaging finalize that right now, our packaging, we've had multiple stages in changing our packaging, where those stand-up pouches which were great but they're hard to open. They're just not, they don't look professional. So we've transitioned from that to this equipment, that we have now that puts him in those, you know, silver they're called it's
called a flow rapper. So basically flow wrapped package but then we're going to get custom packaging on top of that. So that the The film itself is custom and once we have that, then we can start reaching out and trying to, you know, get on store shelves and do wholesale if that's the direction we want to take things. But yeah, that that's in the works as we speak. Awesome. Awesome. Look forward to it. Yeah. So you can find me at my website which is pretty easy.
It's Tanya Pennington.com and also my Instagram account is Tonya. Got Pennington. I will certainly get to those and Tony again, I really appreciate you taking time Time. If there's ever anything I can do by all means, shoot me a email. Let me know and we'll make it happen. Awesome, sounds good. It's been great talking to you likewise. Likewise take care.