Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto Savage.com. And today I've got special, repeat guests, Vanessa the ketogenic girl back on the podcast. And we've had, we've done several podcast episodes together. I've been on hers multiple times, she's been on mine and we've talked at length about protein requirements, calories, macros body composition, hormonal Cycles, all that stuff. So I didn't want to dive into
that again. On this episode, i instead wanted to really pick her brain about business entrepreneurs, Ship, what got her into business? What success she seeing, what failure? She seen rebranding all that stuff. So she's killing it with with her business. She's got multiple content creation businesses.
She's got the book. She's got physical product now with the tone device, so if you're interested in business, especially as it pertains to building a business in the ketogenic and low-carb space, I feel like this one will be a good one for you. We also dive into what it's like being an operator entrepreneur and also a New parent because she has a son. Who's now 11 months old and I just have Rider who is 7 weeks old. So we kind of have that common wanted to pick her brain about
that. So thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. Always a pleasure talking to Vanessa. So without further Ado sit back, relax and enjoy the podcast with Vanessa And we are lab Vanessa, how are you? I'm doing amazing. How are you doing? I don't want it so well for people that are listening and don't they're not in the know, we just got done recording on your podcast now you're recording on my podcast so it's all good. You've been on my show is this the second or third time?
I can't remember. I feel like we've done a few of these over the years. So I'm going to bet it's the third time. I think that sounds about right, so I've got a challenge. Myself rather than me picking your brain about protein calories, macros keto, any of that stuff. I'm going to totally switch gears and I'm not even going to ask you about protein. So you're probably normally getting inundated with questions
about protein. So I'm going to try and challenge myself to be one of the few that totally switches gears on you. I'd love to talk about business and also some parenting because both you and I are new in the parenting world, but before we dive into them, let the Talk business. So for people that don't know anything about you which if they don't the living under a rock, but can you give them like a really quick?
Synopsis of who you are, what you do, and kind of what your brand is, and what kind of dive into business. Sure. So I have been building this brand which is known as ketogenic girl, since about 2015, a little bit into 2014 and I started out just doing it as a hobby sharing recipes and keto stuff because it was my hobby.
Something that I enjoyed and people started asking me for meal plans and at the time I was working in finance, so I'm a Securities Trader. I'm trained as a Securities Trader. I worked at a firm right out of University that did equity valuations and I worked in the stock market in Vancouver and I loved that job.
It was so much fun and towards the end I was a host on a financial show where I was getting to interview some of the top entrepreneurs in the Space, you know, CEOs of top companies, especially in Canada but some in the u.s. too and it was so much fun because I got to combine all these different passions but at the end of the day, I didn't fully feel that fulfilled and you know, nutrition was something I always did on the side and University I took it as my electives because it was just
something I enjoyed and the suddenly I saw that there was sort of an opportunity to combine like what I was actually passionate about, which is nutrition. Health with a career, maybe in a different way, in a new way that I had an imagined for myself before when I was younger, and my business eventually got so busy that I had to basically retire from the financial sector, and leave my role there,
and just do this full time. And so initially, when I started ketogenic girl, I was just doing meal plans meal plan programs that were helping people, you know with their mom. Macros on keto and there was a huge demand and need for that. Especially in like 2015, it was such a surge of interest in Quito and there were not, you know, as many like meal plans and things available and then I eventually started the podcast.
A couple years later, I wrote a book Aikido Essentials, which just published by penguin, now on my penguin random house, and that was really fun, because I got to go on a book tour and I felt like a rock star, and I got to go all over the US. And, and me So many wonderful people in person and then I ended up starting the podcast. That was the next thing which has been an amazing wonderful Adventure that I've been doing
for the last five years. And then more recently, I started a new business, which is basically the tone device, which is a breath, acetone meter. And that's been a really, really satisfying and fun, sort of endeavor, but I've been learning a lot in doing it. And I think that that's that's ultimately why I do anything is just to learn and grow and probably why most people do things but the challenge excites me to do something new and to learn about a new space and it's
been really, really fun. I love it. I love it. You said that you loved your prior job you interviewing the financial gurus and experts. A lot of people quit their corporate job or their 925 because they hate it. You said you loved it. But We're unfulfilled. So, why do you think you loved it? But we're unfulfilled, was it, are you just the type of person that has to build yourself in order to find that true fulfillment? Or what do you think? The the answer is there?
That's such a good question. I think that at the end of the day I was just helping people make money and although that is helpful, it's not as transformational as powerful as you all know as helping people with their physical health and health really is the first wealth. No, so my husband still works in finance. That's where we met, and he helps a lot of people to protect their wealth and and to protect themselves from things that we're seeing happening, how like inflation and all that.
But you know, and he finds that very satisfying because that's his passion. He's always had that since he was really young. I just love money and business and like learning about that. So, I found it really fun and exciting, but it wasn't fulfilling my soul. It wasn't like, like it is now where I get to hear from people.
Bowl on a daily basis, pretty much where they're like this information from this person that you had on your show like really impacted me and, you know, changed my life for the better. Like thank you. And the amount of thank yous that I get for doing the work that I do from people who genuinely mean it is just like,
making me emotional. But it's a, it shows the powerful impact of sharing this information that, you know, I know you're passionate about you, so it's Filling my soul on another level, whereas the former job was more just like fun and thrilling. This is more like maybe a line with my, my sole purpose, like my Divine Purpose. And what I'm think supposed to be doing, yeah, totally resonate with that. I feel like, you know, the any
money that that you are. I make as a result of our business Endeavors is great, because it's kind of like a proxy for Progress to show that things are moving in the right direction. But I feel like you and I are on the same page and that the emails, the DMS that we get every single day. Has somebody's life was transformed like that is what makes us tick?
Yes yes absolutely and also just the learning and the growth like you have to you know when you're on a weight loss Journey or a muscle building Journey you have to Envision a new version of yourself and what that new person is going to be like and feel like and how they're going to act and it's very similar with, you know, starting businesses. Like you have to imagine and create a new version of yourself
who's now. Now, you know, doing this or that and the amount of learning that you can do these days, I think is really exciting, because you can learn pretty much anything online. You can learn all of these skills and it doesn't matter what you want to do. You can become a Creator, you can become a business owner. You can just there's just unlimited knowledge and learning at our fingertips, and so, you can basically like the sky's the
limit. I think when it comes to, you know, starting new Ventures, taking risks and going after Stir, you know, exciting dreams that you might have. Yeah. For like every every generation is going to have their their you know, metaphorical or realistic literal pandemic. So to speak and every generation is going to have their incredible opportunities for
growth and advancement. I feel like you know, the fact that we're living in a day and age in which you can tap into the internet and all the abundance of information that provides is just such such an amazing, you know opportunity, that people Often times don't take for, you know, they take for granted, they use that information and they only seek out and consume, you know, - debilitating content.
But if they were to leverage that resource in terms of finding new entrepreneurial Ventures New Opportunities, new networks, new communities to double down on that. Like the, the sky truly is a limit. I mean, all that is accessible to them at their fingertips. Yes, it's so true. And you know, all you need is an internet connection, pretty much.
And, you know, you can teach yourself anything, the amount of things I've learned, you know, when I went back to school, I watch incredible animations and biochemistry and the things that you can just learn from, you know, the comfort of your couch, you know, you can Empower yourself so much just with like YouTube. And, you know, it's really amazing how you can like I was saying, you can teach yourself
pretty much any skill. It comes to running a business as you know, there's so many different hats, you know, that you wear and I think that it's really helpful because I've always been a big book reader from a young age. I always read a lot of nonfiction, a lot of business books, but that's not for everyone.
But with YouTube, you know, you can like, learn how to build a business, how to do e-commerce or, you know, so many different things with like short interactive entertaining, educational videos and and there's just so much that you can, you know, expose yourself to To and I always think back to garbage in garbage out, you know, like whatever you are putting in is because going to be what comes out.
And if you are like watching a lot of like quote-unquote, you know, trash or like garbage or things that, you know, maybe like junk food, like, you know, television, that's just not really impacting you in a positive way. Then you might not get great results, but if you change what you're putting in and you start watching content that inspires you or is Ching. You like you'll be amazed at what can come out of you and and what can, you know, what?
You can achieve just by what you're putting into your mind. Percent agree, 100% agree when it comes to, you know, you having come from a place of success with working for another entity, while simultaneously, building your own thing on the side and what point did you know that? Okay, I've got to step away from the other thing I've got to remove this Safety Net in order to go, you know, Double Down On My Own Thing like and what It did that click in your mind and
give you enough conference? No, that's the trajectory that you needed to take. Such a good question. And I'm one of those people who's, you know, I'll take risks. But I take calculated risks and I'm very conservative when it comes to finances because that's what I studied its kind of my knowledge base.
And the biggest thing that I saw when evaluating companies is, you know, as you know like 90 some percent of small businesses fail, after 5 years every time it's always people getting over leveraged taking on too much debt. And I think that that's Massive issue because if you you get a bunch of, you know, money from investors, you are not going to be as accountable with the dollars than if it's your money.
So I always to myself was like, well, I'm not going to stop my current job until my side hustle really is at the same level or Beyond like what I'm making already. So you know, for me, it was working. Whenever, you know, my regular job was done, say it like 5:00, then I would start working on ketogenic girl from 5:00 until I went to bed and then I would get up. Thank you, do it for am, and I would start working on ketogenic
girl. So I would like go on Instagram and I would post stuff and sure stuff and then go and like, look up the hashtag for keto and just go like find and connect with all these people. And I would do that for like three or four hours a day and it wasn't until I think it About maybe like seven months later that the, my first sort of couple orders for meal plans, like really came in and the first one that I had someone ask me to make them a 14 Day meal plan. And I said, okay.
And they said, you know, can I buy it from you? And I was like, okay, but I haven't made it yet. So I then had to work through Christmas. Poor feet was walking around the city by himself because I was working through your Christmas to finish. This meal plan and you know, it was it was crazy, but she was
wonderful. She just she knew that like I needed to make it and it was then that sort of, you know, the income from the meal plans and the programs and the coaching started to become equivalent to what I was doing. You know, up until then and then I decided, Well, now I'm going to make the switch but I wouldn't have done it.
That much earlier for myself, like I just am pretty conservative when it comes to, you know, finances and everything that I did and have done with all the businesses has been conservative, not going into dad's, you know, being very, you know, careful and measured with my money because it's my money. At the end of the day, it's not
investors money. So I'm just very careful and cautious and I think that that's and it's just important, I think to be profitable to, because some companies are not We see that recently, you know, imploding in the tech space, they're just so many companies that are not profitable and they're just getting all this free money from people who are borrowing it for no, for nothing or who were. And now we're seeing like, who are the legit who are the real companies, but you're get me ranting.
Know, that was good. I feel like a lot of people I talk about this a lot on other podcast as well, but I feel like a lot of people they look for like, you know, VC funding Angel Investors. And they get this massive bolus of funds, and they have this crazy, you know, exponential growth, but in such a short window of time that they don't do so responsibly and then they implode and it's just, it's just
all downhill from there. Like, one thing that we've done with our company is that we've always bootstrapped like we've probably grown slower as a result of it, but we've grown in a way that is scalable with their own funding without ever having the risk of outside investors and having to answer to them. And I feel like That's just been a much more responsible business plan.
It's allowed me to just have a clear understanding of why we are where we're at and what I can do to improve upon that. I feel like so many people, they just want to grow and have this flash-in-the-pan phenomena and they just assume that the money will never dry up, but it does because and then the day like, if you're taking on a bunch of VC funding, like you're still, you're answering for somebody else.
And I feel like if you start your own business To Be Your Own Boss yet, you're answering to somebody else like that. Just It kind of defeats the purpose. Yes, I couldn't agree more. That's like my dislike fundamental dislike for authority figures is what made me want to really do my own thing which I was doing already. Before I started ketogenic, bro. I was working for myself, but was being paid, like through contracts, but I feel the exact
same way. If you take on investment funding, you now have other people to answer to. So, are you really working for yourself anymore? You're kind of working like in a team, which You know, is great. And, you know, in some ways probably brings like other things to the table, like I know people, a lot of people have like a board of directors and the board of advisers and all these things that bring so much value.
But yeah, I feel I feel the same way I just like to do my own thing and you know, do it kind of solo and and be my own boss and that's that's ultimately. What makes it all worth doing? Tell me about the tone device. Like, this is your first foray into A product stop business. Kind of tell me about what that's been like and just kind of explain what the tone device is and kind of where you're going with that.
The last thing has been the tone of voice which I launched in December. So, you know, I'm I have some new ideas and things that hardest thing for me is just to focus on one thing at a time. But right now I'm actually working on an app for the tone that's going to be a community based app. So it doesn't matter if you have
a tone or not. But basically for my community who listen to the podcast or engage with my content that they can be in there and connect in there and share their results and their different you know, experiments and their blood glucose or ketones and share them together and we kind of do that a little bit in our Facebook group but it's going to be just a base so you don't have to be on Facebook or whatever which is something that I would enjoy just having its own
little, our own little space. So that's something that I'm I'm actually having a lot of fun working on is the design for the app, like the different features and it's going to have an intermittent fasting tracker in it and you know, you can input and track your Trends on you know different different forms of feedback and just connect with other people in the community. So yeah, I'm trying to just focus on on one thing at a time. It's alright. Yeah you got a million things going.
Your mind all at once it's hard. Yeah, anyone at, but I definitely think that having the sense of community is totally key. Like, that is Paramount. I've all the content streams that you have like the YouTube channel, the Instagram, the podcast at the podcast is probably the largest platform for you, right?
Yes. It really has taken over, you know, I think at the beginning, it was Instagram and then it was YouTube and YouTube was crazy, because I was just kind of like uploading videos here and there randomly like not, Ali doing it with any skill or like any like real purpose and because of, you know, how Quito is exploding? Like some of those videos would go crazy but I didn't really, like, take notice like, I was
just like, oh, whatever. Like another video hit like however 100,000 you know, I'm just like oh that's cool. Like didn't really? I don't know, I didn't maybe fully take advantage that in the way that I could have, if I had like set up a really nice like sleek. On there from the beginning. But I was just kind of like getting stuff out there. And I also kind of thought that
I had to be like everywhere. And then over time I realized, well, you know, just focus on the things that you enjoy the most and then, you know, for me that the podcast I enjoy that by Miles, I enjoy that the most and, you know, doing Instagram, I think is kind of like a good complement to having a podcast, but I just think People should know like, you don't have to be everywhere, like you don't have to also be on Twitter and you
don't have to also be on Tick. Tock, you know, I have to also, you know, beyond like whatever new social medias, you know, popular that we can just pick the ones that you like and you enjoy and you only need like a couple of them and just focus there. And, you know, I think it causes a lot of stress for people to think that they have to be like everywhere. But for me, the podcast has the biggest like, audience, the biggest following. And so And it's also what I enjoy them all.
So that's where I put all of my time and focus really every week. Yeah, the podcasting I love podcasting as a medium of that. He got the YouTube channel, I've got the Instagram, but I feel like podcasting is just for where I tend to, you know, shine Mouse. And I feel like with podcasting, it's kind of weird because unlike Instagram and YouTube, like, there's no really good way to gauge engagement person. Like, there's not like a like
button or anything like that. At least not that I'm aware of when it comes to podcasting. Algorithms and engagement levels, but I feel like the impact, it makes you just feel it. But it's like, it's not like a tangible thing that you can look and see like a metric per se. Like, you can see the, you know, trans is to how many downloads you get per month but like, you don't know.
I mean, you get like the reviews on iTunes and whatnot, but I feel like with the podcasting like people come up to me all the time, they say I heard you on a podcast or heard your punk ass but I don't really get that, you know like oh I saw your Instagram like it's more so like the podcast that people are talking about but you just didn't trust that it's working. Based off of just the feel of it, which is kind of unique to its so true and that's what I've been noticing.
I mean I've seen the downloads, you know, going up and turning up but there's been this like surge especially in the last year and I wouldn't I don't want to say like it that the downloads one up so many times but it's also that I could just feel the community a growing and the feedback that I was getting I decided to Start a Facebook group about a year ago for the podcast and then people are joining that and sharing in
there. And also, like you said, I think there's so many more people listening than you're actually, like, aware of, which is crazy because the number of people that I talked to who decided to try keto and then maybe that's like their whole career now because they heard dr. Dom D'Agostino on Tim Ferriss podcast. That was my name, right? Can I talk to, you know, I think
it was Drew Manning last week. That was his like, the number of people that heard that podcast and, you know, got into keto and then, you know, the number of carnivore people who heard dr. Shaun Baker on Joe Rogan, like, those are two just podcast episodes that impacted like millions and millions of people to change their lifestyle. So it's a nice long form content. You can share so much more of
like who you are. And so, Much more information and I think it really builds like trust and Community a lot more than like some of the other methods maybe? Yeah. Hundred percent agree. I mean, like it's a totally different type of person. There's gonna be some overlap, but like the type of person that is going to tick tock to see, you know, something pop up in their feed for 15, seconds is a different type of person that's
going to sit down. Listen to an hour-and-a-half podcast with a deep down to a subject and I feel like, I don't know, like the place that I'm at in life. Make the place that you're at in life. Like we want to have conversations with the type of people that want to go deeper. I mean, you're not going to seem like we're going to try and start a tick tock but I'm not going to run it because I'm not going to be up there.
Doing dances you know like like we're gonna try and get a tick tock going for the keto brick business, but like that's not where I want to sink my teeth into but the podcasting is because it's just deeper longer form. Like I feel like you just get a better gauge of the audience, you're able to offer more value to the audience and I feel like
that's just the longer. I'm content and longer, for medium, suggest better in my opinion, I think you just hit the nail on the head there, it's the value, like, you're giving so much value to people, and that's what you're feeling back because I've, I can feel that so much from the community, when I didn't feel that ever before, when I wasn't doing the podcast, like, you know, people like the book, and they liked my Instagram posts or whatever, but it's definitely the amount of
value. That's, that's such a great point. That people are like, I'm receiving so much. And this like, thank you. And I feel that way about the podcast that I listen to, you know, I'm like, I get so much from this, you know, and it you you feel so thankful and appreciative for the time like invested into it. Yeah, totally. So just for my own Clarity sake and I'm kind of curious. You, you were the cute, Janet girl and you rebranded to optimal protein and then you kept the podcast.
I'll come protein, but you re branded your Instagram back to Kitchen at. Girl, what was the what's the the The methodology. That what? Why the change? What would you change back? Like, I'm curious. This is like, my daily struggle is, should I change the podcast to the optimal protein?
Keto? This is like my latest thing that I'm thinking of, so my thinking and changing the podcast and also my own content was that I felt like, I'm focusing so much on protein now and that's like a lot of the positive feedback that I'm getting back is people wanting to understand that more and I Needed to be less exclusive and more inclusive. Like, you know, we can talk about protein whether you are high carb, low carb, vegetarian, you know, pescatarian, whatever you are.
We can all come together on getting adequate protein, getting appropriate protein for whatever your needs are. And for some people that's hire some people. It slower like, depending on what you're optimizing for. Are you optimizing for muscle growth or aging or longevity, you know, or having ketones which are signaling to your
mitochondria? Like there's so many different things that you can be optimizing for and I did the name change because I thought it was like time for me to grow or evolve or something, you know, to the optimum protein. Girl, and the number of messages I got like 24 hours after a people upset that I changed it. What they were upset? Yes, people were upset that I changed it. And so I kind of asked people a little bit like You know, what do you think, like, which named I did like some poles.
Unlike what do you prefer? And just so many people like overwhelmingly. I think it was like 80% said, you know, we want you to keep ketogenic girl and people just wrote me a lot of like really sincere messages. And they were like, you know, we understand like podcast, maybe like you're changing that. But like, you know, we so connect with you and like this name and, and I'm so glad that I did, I think she changed it back. I think like a couple days. Later and as soon as I change it
back, it felt right. And I was like, okay because I was really anxious like when I when I did change it and there are I'm really glad that I did because all of my content like I've sort of I've expanded my knowledge on protein and really understanding that better, but everything for me, still goes back to Quito, especially on the podcast and everything that I do in my work is like The importance of still having ketones and what those ketones are doing for you.
So it's is part of like wanting some Evolution and like growth and something different and everyone in the podcast group, really, really love that. Like, they actually felt that it reflected them more like as a community. Yeah. So I was like, okay, this is great for the group. Everyone was like, thrilled with the name change in there, you know, because we do have some people who are not like 80, Percent still is like, doing
keto. I did a poll a couple days ago, but there are some people who are doing like, you know, a lot higher carb and they want to be like, included, they want to be part of the conversation do so. Yeah. It was, it was like, very stressful, like 48 hours. I was like, oh no. I gotta like go back and it's hard to change like branding and names, but it was a mistake for me to change it to Optimum virgin girls.
I went right back to ketogenic girl, I'm so glad that I did and now I'm just sort of Debating if I should keep the podcast, the optimal protein pot, Outcast. Because it's just like shorter than optimal protein keto, but so much of what I focus on is Quito and ketones so it's really tricky and hard to know which way to go with it. Yeah, it is super trick in right
now. It's like, it's interesting because you see so many Brands and companies and people like, going through this same shift, like, I've seen so many people in the last year, re brilliant change names. Change color, really change everything. And I think some of that is because like he do as a hype, I mean the the bubble has burst in the sense of it's not like, if you Google Trends keto right now, it's peaked. Was it peaked in? Like, 2000, 17 and 18?
I think so. It's like not at the Zenith. It was previously. And I feel like that decline scares a lot of people. So they try to Rebrand to stay on top of current marketing Trends. And I think I totally get It. But at the same time like there's so much research and science, it's still coming out in support of all the benefits that it, you know, optimal ketogenic diet has to offer. So I feel like that Foundation is only getting stronger as so it's weird.
Like you see? Some people wanting to just double down on keto? That's kind of the camp that I fall into more. You see some people totally rebranding and changing and not even using the word Quito in their terminology at all. And I see a lot of people doing that too. So I don't really know where the chips are all going to fall. So, To speak.
But for me my concept is always been like look you know whether you call it something different like a ketogenic diet is simply in my mind, a high-quality single ingredient wholesome nutritious you know diet and that's probably going to be optimal no matter what you call it. So I'm just going to keep calling to see how, you know. Yeah, yeah. No I know what you're saying about the research is a thousand percent, right?
Like the scientist that I've had on the podcast in the last few months have been blowing my mind in I have never been more excited about Quito, and I think there is a Resurgence of Interest, that's coming and dr. Dom D'Agostino, told me last month, the Tim Ferriss is going to have him on his podcast again. And we all know what happened the first time. I don't know if, you know, Tim's, five guesses is at its Zenith, as you said, which is such a great word, you know, as it as it once was.
But a lot of people still listen to and I think I think that the science behind it is More exciting for me than it's ever been, in terms of now, or understanding what ketones are actually doing. They're not so much like this super fuel there more so signaling to our mitochondria's, especially to uncouple and to repair our mitochondria and they're producing less, you know, reactive oxygen species
and less free radicals. And it's really like we're getting such a better understanding also of how You can get ketones while not, maybe necessarily having to do a keto diet like the 24/7, you know. So if you're doing time restricted eating, you can get some ketones. If you're maybe adding some things like MCTS, you can get
some ketones. Like so they're the things that we're learning about ketones like it's just beginning because there has been so little research done on keto outside of, you know, like cancer research and seizure Caesar
late. In see the seizure research, you know, and there's been just not a lot of research done on ketones themselves in terms of other applications like people optimizing their health with it, their lifespan there, he'll spend but we're starting to like understand more and more of it and I'm so excited for the potential with keto.
Yeah, 100% I mean you were a business majors will like you remember those graphs that they showed us in college would like to get the early adopters, then you got like the mainstream and you get like the late bloomers. Like keto has passed that early adopter stays like it's it's on to like mainstream now for sure. And with that you get more funding, you get more, you know, just overall consensus and knowledge around the subject
matter. And for a lot of people that were in that early adopter States like with you starting, you know, content around Quito in 2014 and 15. I think I started in 2016. So I was right behind you like
being in the space at that time. Was freaking exhilarating because you were on the Leading Edge and it was just They totally different feel than it is right now, and I longed for that same thing, like I miss that intensity and energy, that was there in those early years, but I'd certainly don't think that the feeling and The Sensation that we're experiencing now, is a result of the decline of Quito, and I feel like some people fear, that's the case. And I don't feel like that's the case.
And when you look at it, from a very high level, like you just simply feel good when you're not eating crap food, and you're not really eating much, great food. If you're on a ketogenic diet and you're doing it properly, it's just the way it boils down to So I feel like there's always going to be a super strong base of people even if it's not the hype diet of the month, you
know, that's fine. But I feel like there's always going to be a good solid, you know, foundational group of people there that are going to benefit from the content that's putting that's being put out. So if you're continuing your content, your branding around that same messaging, I don't
feel like that's a big risk. Yeah, I think, you know, for me particularly I wanted to just expand the audience that this information Shin was potentially getting to and especially with the podcast, it's like, well, are people just not going to listen, you know, as a new listener potentially because they see the word keto. Yeah.
Whereas like, if we focus more on optimal protein, which is just like one aspect of Quito then like it can appeal and just open itself up to more people who are, you know, interested in that. So I think, you know, it's just, I think maybe some of the people changing their like, Brand Identity or, you know, changing and shifting, that is maybe just to be a little bit more like inclusive or open it up to more
people. Yeah, but I do think that the interest is still there, I think it is just that there's more people who have expertise and talk about it, whereas like, back then it was like just us like, Saudi people just like, you know, focused and concentrated just on like a smaller group of people. Yeah, I totally agree and I think that's not a bad thing. I feel like you get more noise
when that happens. I mean annoys necessarily in a good thing it kind of comes to territory though, but I feel like as long as people are adopting this, you know, growth mentality, Rising tide raises All Ships, so to speak. Like there's no reason to have this aggressive animosity towards other people that are excelling in the space. Like, I get excited when I see people killing it in the keto
space. Like, I want to rub shoulders with them and, you know, it's all work together because I feel like there's no reason why we Didn't because the more people that we had, at the end of the day, the better. The more value that is added. Yes, 100% agree. So, with the last little bit here I want to kind of pick your brain as to what it's like owning the companies that you own, you got the book, you got the content, you got the podcast. You got the the tone device.
You got all these things going all while having an eleventh month. Old kid. Oh, Andy! I just can't pick your brains to how you are able to juggle that effectively. Like did you? Feel or fear that the business would take a hit with having that as a distraction or has that never been a thing that's crossed your mind like what's it? Like being an entrepreneur, killing it and business but then also trying to be the best mother that you can be. No, thank you for the kind
words. It's it is really, really fascinating. I actually found some research on productivity that actually confirmed what was going on with me. And my husband who he also has his own business and he is at home with us during the day. So we're really fortunate to have that because if we didn't, if I didn't have him here with me during the day, I don't know how I would get anything done because we alternate During the day. So, you know, he'll take him in
the morning for an hour or two. And then I take him for an hour or two. We just do that all day long. Pretty much except for the weekends, when it's all of us together as a family all day, but during the week, you know, we alternate like that and then, you know, in the evenings, like we also hang out together. But what's really interesting about productivity is they found that some of the Silicon Valley
companies. They have this, like, Work Hard Play Hard, sort of dynamic, At work where they want people to work for an hour or two, and then go and do something totally unrelated like playing a video game for an hour or two and then coming back to work and that productivity went way up when people started doing that. And that's why I like so many of
those companies. They have like pool tables and arcades and like, all this fun stuff to help people, relax, like, fully relaxed, not think about work at all. Then go back to work and that's what's been happening with us. Kind of inadvertently is like, I'll take Luca for, you know, a couple of hours and then I'll just be playing with him. I put my phone away and we just played together and interact and I have so much fun, just being fully present and immersed in
that. And having this knowledge also helped me to make sure that I put my phone away. And I were fully focused on just him and then when Pete takes them, then I go work. And we each have our office spaces and we give each other just total like, quiet and peace. So like what we're doing this podcast, you know, he took him for a walk, so I don't have to
worry about like, is he? Okay, is he hungry or whatever while he's at home and there's something about that switching on and off all day, that's been really beneficial for both of us
in terms of our productivity. And something that surprised me because I was worried about how it would affect my work and The other thing that I would say is that it just makes you so ruthless about things and time that you shouldn't spend time on it that you don't, you know, like other people's request, you know, I had to learn to just say no to like everything unless it's something that, you know, like in terms of like speaking at things or, you know, doing things for other people.
I've always been like someone who's always like wanting to help others and support them. But when you have a limited amount of time, you kind of Have to get ruthless and be like I got to focus on my stuff, you know, reach out to me again in a couple of months. And we'll see, you know, if we can, if I can help you with that.
But I can't right now. So learning to say no is really hard but also you focus because you know, that you have like 90 minutes, you can't, you know, waste time checking messages from your friends or whatever. Like you have to just focus on getting stuff done and just like you know, I'm one of those people who Make a list of all the things I need to do. I prioritize them with a, you know, a b or c depending on that
priority. And, you know, I kind of just you just kind of make it, make it work, right? But again I'm so fortunate and privileged to have Peter also working from home because I don't know how I would do it. Like I would we would probably need to have help of some kind in order to be able to get work done because it is it's definitely challenging it's like a new level.
Yeah of challenging and if we have we'd like to have more children so I'm sure it's just going to get just going to keep leveling up the difficulty levels, but I do feel like I could go away somewhere for like a month and just work for a month straight. Like I'm a lot of stuff but I still, you know, that I feel like I need to catch up on but, you know, you just get the most important things done and that's all you can really like do at the end of the day.
There's a lot of time that you realize Just waste. Normally, yeah, feel like havin a kid really opens your eyes to where your time is being spent. I mean, because like if you're if you've got a bunch of stuff to do from like a career standpoint, you know business-wise and then you find yourself scrolling on Instagram mindlessly for 15 minutes, so you're not getting anything business-related done and you're
also not holding your kid. Like how in the world do you justify scrolling mindlessly for 15 minutes on stupid content? That's probably - like it's just not a good.
Good use of your time so I feel like yeah I'm having a kid just you know UPS the ante on prioritizing your time and having like Crystal that means she's we were in the same position as you and that you know she doesn't have to work it another five somewhere and after working at 5:00 somewhere, she's at the compound, I'm at the compound like we're able to juggle that, you know, an effective manner. I can't imagine having like a normal job.
That's much more rigid and it's like, you know, start and stop times, but really just focusing on, you know, maximize Optimal productivity, when the time allows I think is key because you don't want to, you know, trying to be answering emails and editing a podcast while also changing a diaper like, it doesn't really work too well. I feel like you got to kind of get down out in and be streamlined. But I feel like, you know, so many of the stressors that I had
beforehand. I feel like I'd be curious to get your take on this but I feel like a lot of people that are, you know, Taipei entrepreneurial just like go get em types, they fear that having a kid. Kid will be create this distraction that removes their intensity towards their business Endeavors and I was afraid of that at first and I feel like a lot of people use kids as a scapegoat for why they aren't successful in life. And I'm just going to be
brutally honest. Like I didn't want that to happen, but I feel like you have the power in your own mind to shape that reality, that shape, the reality of your kid, in whichever way you choose and you can choose Make having a kid and that reality more of a incentive to be even better in business have even loftier goals provide even more for their future. I feel like if you're able to do that, having a kid is only a strength as a business owner. That's 100% how I feel.
Is what motivates me now is things that I want to do for Luca, you know, things that and potentially maybe even like what if he wants to take over the business, you know, some days the only I'm always thinking about that and In the back of my mind, I'm sure like you guys do too because you also have your business and, you know, I'm just motivated of wanting to give him like, the best education and the best, you know, adventures and
travel and, and all that stuff. And, you know, one of the things that we were very intentional about was moving abroad because we felt that in North America like work and productivity and being busy was like a really big cultural priority whereas in Europe it's a Lot less like that. You I mean when it's for example like for maternity leave over here you have like, up to three years.
Wow, you know, versus like in North America, it's like three months for some people and that's because they really, really prioritize like the parents being with the kids for as long as possible. And, you know, I love that about where we are. Like, I think, you know, North America. Everyone like loves kids and I love family and everyone's very Oriented that's where all my family is. And I've always felt that way, but there's something cultural where people's priorities are
just a little bit different. It's like a small shift but one thing that I was afraid of four years was that I would lose my ambition or that I wouldn't get to achieve my goals by having a baby and I have found that it has like shifted just the way that I think about things not in a way that like If I don't reach certain goals that all feel like I'm excused from that or something but more. So in a way that I value my time with him so much that it means more to me than anything else.
So it's like, you know, I've had thoughts in my mind like, you know, should I should we get some childcare to help so that I can get more work done? And I'm like, no, like this is the time, like, you know, those first four or five years, like, Such a magical time. So many people. Tell me, and even this first year has gone by in the blink of an eye. And I'm like, I don't want child care, I want more help in the business.
I need to hire more, which is what I've been trying to focus on. I find hiring really difficult but I am starting to do it delegate more higher, more team members because what I want is to have that time with Luke, like that's why I do all of this stuff is to be able to, you know, own my time and choose how I I spend it and there's nothing that satisfies anymore enriches. My soul more than being with
him. So I want more work staff and so that I can I can keep spending that time with him and I don't want to miss out on it. We're thinking about put maybe homeschooling him because we both love being with him so much. So you know it, I think it can change you in ways that like would step would have surprised. The old me who was like, no I can't have kids it's gonna slow me down or whatever. When like, it's just changes you
completely as a person. I think, you know, and and you are unrecognizable in some ways, but it's like, it's such a wonderful thing, not a bad thing.
Yeah, totally agree. I mean, there's not been a single bad Sensation that I feel that has come to us as a result of having rigel and I feel like I mean you have the like every one of us has the power in our own mind to create the type of environment we want to exist in. And I feel like if you have A kid, you can use that as a strength or you can make it a weakness but having a kids, not necessary the weakness, it's how your mind is looking at that situation.
So I feel like you adopting the mentality that you are and rather than trying to hire a sitter. But rather shift your thinking to hiring people to run more aspects of the business. Like, that's likely going to result in you scaling the business and growing even more. So, so I feel like you just you shape that activity around that the life that you desire to live.
And you choose your priorities and I feel like if you do, so in the right manner for you, there's no reason to having it has to be a crutch or a detriment at all. Yeah, I love that. It's so true because, you know, you create your reality with your feelings and you know how
you're living your life. And I completely agree with that, in spending my time doing what I love, which is like, taking a look on a hike in the morning and then, you know, just spending time, just playing with him and learning and having fun. Like, that's really how I want to be spending my time. So I do love work. I still love work, like hasn't changed that but it's amazing how you can sit. Down to work for an hour and it feels like five seconds.
Again, goes by so fast like people take him into the other room and just like it feels like he just walked back in the door. It's like okay. Like because when you do get like in the zone or Focus like you you can just get so much done and in like a short amount of time when you are focused and it's really just all about your priorities but yeah you're absolutely right. I who knows like it might just end up being more effective because now it's pushing me too.
Hire people, which is something that I'm not good at being like the hardest part of business for sure. We've got a team on our team now on hiring is the hardest part hundred percent. It is it is, it's scary but yeah it has to be done. Well if Luke it takes over you got to change the name again to like ketogenic boy or something. Right. All right. I guess he could Rock kids in ago. He can make it work as both. Imagine.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, my husband's always joked over the years that he was going to start. Freeman. But yeah, ketogenic boy. That's that's hilarious. You don't worry awesomeness, opposed kind of vying between us of which business he's going to want to take over. So that's going to be interesting to see what he gravitates to more. Yeah, well the future will tell have to keep all that. Keep us posted keep document, the journey will just see Words which direction he goes for sure.
Absolutely. Well, Vanessa, where do people go to find out more about you and follow along? Yeah, so my podcast is the optimal protein podcast. On all major podcast platforms, you can find me on Instagram, that's where I'm the most sort of active interacting with people at ketogenic girl. And we have an amazing podcast group on Facebook which is called the optimal protein podcast group, and we interact a lot in there and sort of hang out and share different experiments.
We're doing and different protein intakes and it's my favorite place to hang out on And then of course, website, ketogenic girl, you can find the tone device and all my meal plans and programs. They're awesome. Awesome. Well, I will certainly link out to make it easy for people to find you and Vanessa you just keep killing it on all that you do and we will keep in touch. Thank you is such an honor to be on your show. I think, for the third time. So thanks again for having me.
Well, open invite any time you want to jump on the door is yours. Awesome, take care.