Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto Savage.com. And today, I've got special, guest, Mike Collins on the line, he owns the website sugar addiction.com, and we talked about sugar addiction, he has struggled with sugar addiction. Since she was a small child. He also struck with alcohol addictions. We talked about that and how
they are related. How they're intertwined, and how sugar can be viewed as an addiction, both from a physiological standpoint, and from a psychological standpoint, how some people are better as eliminators. Some people are better as Traitors and how one can navigate the Waters of Breaking Free of the cycle of sugar addiction? I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. I've got no doubt that you will as well. So without further Ado, sit back relax and do the podcast with Mike.
We are live, Mike Collins, how are you sir? I'm well, how are you today? I'm doing wonderfully? Well, wonderful. Well, I want to dive into sugar. Your book is all about sugar, your websites, all about sugar and the addiction of sugar. But before we do that, man, I'd love to kind of get some back story on you and what got you interested in the removal of sugar in the first place? Yeah, sure. I got the short version podcast version, you know, I thought I grew up as a regular kid.
I think we all do, but come to find out, you know, we all of us, I think. But me particular, my mom was a sugar junkie, my favorite sugar junkie and kind of sad story at the beginning. My grandma died, when she was just eight years old. So they made a deal life. Grant my grandfather, made a deal with her his cousin who own the country store across the way he said anytime. Juliet comes in. You just give her anything. She wants that candy thing and it's great gesture.
For a eight-year-old, just lost her mom, but at the end of the day, my mother really genuine, I think till the day, she died believe that sugar was loved and we grew up that way. We're just covered up. I mean we had unfettered access to the Sugar Bowl. We I mean we could literally at the end of the you know sugar we scrape off half an inch or a quarter of an inch of sugar with the the milk and and I anything else in, I mean, it was just sugar sugar.
Sugar is a great YouTube video, Eric Clapton a great guitar player sitting with Ed Bradley of 60 Minutes in his seven million dollar Antigua treatment center. And Ed Bradley says to hear Eric Clapton, he says, oh Eric. This addiction thing is started with Heroin, right? And goes, no, Ed. It started with sugar, he said, I used to cram bread and butter and sugar sandwiches in myself when I was five and six years, And we used to eat bread and
butter and sugar sandwich. My mother taught us that because, you know, when there's no food around, we would were alone. We need bread and butter, and sugar sandwiches. Anyway, fast forward, I run into beer at 14, 15 years old and I knew that beer changed my state. This is important pin in the conversation. I knew that I could tell, I was shy, I could talk to girls, you know, we drink behind a high school and I go in and be able to talk to girls. So I knew that beer was changing
my state. And I'm an open book. I can talk about all that if you want but you know, fast forward about 28 and I get sober. That's pretty good party in between but, you know, the but basically I did what a lot of drinking folks and a lot of people in recovery do and a lot of people in life who don't have the alcohol issues, I went right back to the sugar and man it was it was rough. I mean II was More obsessive than the drugs and alcohol.
I swear, you know, my face was a mess with acne and in my 30s it was crazy. I read a book called sugar Blues back, then guy. William Duffy Duffy was married to the famous movie, star Gloria Swanson, right? And they promoted that book pretty heavy in the early 80s and I went on to like, you know, quit sugar. Eventually I had some mentors but I really ended up raising my kids. Sugar-free somehow I talked my wife into time and into having sugar free kids, no sugar, no
flour. No, caffeine in the womb until there were six years old and then never in the house just outside birthday parties. And yeah, so it was and they know the kids always said, dad, you should write a book about sugar. I want to have a regular business career. I didn't like this wasn't ever my career for most of my life and about 10 years ago.
Picked up the domain sugar addiction.com and I was putting out really good information but it was still part time and it wasn't till I was little semi-retired. That I started coaching and building online communities and stuff that it really took off. And I started to really in the book came out. And so yeah, that's how I got here. I mean that's kind of the short version that usually brings up more questions than answers.
But yeah, yeah. I want to I want to dive into sugar as an addiction for sure because I feel like, you know, with alcohol Halt or drugs or things of that nature like people inherently know. Okay. This is probably not good. It's not optimal, it's not healthy. Like I'm probably kind of, you know, deviating from what is a true straight North trajectory by, you know, dabbling heavily in drugs and alcohol, where's
with sugar? Like people just think of that as food more often than not and it's never really, you know, there's never this negative connotation that surrounds it. So for you it seemed like you were just brought up that way your siblings struggling with all this as was it more so you Well, you know, I don't go with my siblings, listen to these kinds of things, but, you know, they deal with the alcohol still, you know, genuinely and and, you know, all of them
actually, and so, yeah. I mean, it was my father was an alcoholic. So I, you know, we grew up in that atmosphere. It's interesting because, you know, they've called sugar the good girls do you don't be sexist in any way, but it's just true, and it's true in all my groups as well. You know, the men grew. Drinking and women were eating sugar, right? And you're right that Society, it's really only been in the last five years, that the science, the brain science.
The addiction science has really proven the fact that this drug and I do call it, a drug hits, the nucleus accumbens and the dopamine serotonin norepinephrine. All of your, you know, your feel-good chemicals.
Almost not almost the same. I'm way the exact same way as drugs and alcohol when you put you in someone in an MRI as the food companies, do literally weaponizing this product against us and adding it to 75% of foodstuffs because they know that it makes you feel a little bit better for a few minutes. You know, it's, we're pounding 21, tsp average, anybody with any habitat, all mean a Coke is 12 for god, sakes.
I mean, anybody with any habitat, all is Is doing 30, 40 teaspoons a day and, you know, literally since childhood, they've never had an opportunity to be free of this stuff. And again, in the last five years, the explosion in the brain science has proven that it's the doing the same thing as alcohol and drugs. It is it is frustrating to see how how companies you know are so motivated by money.
That's like the pretty pretty devious towards the ignorant concerning Zoomer. I mean just all the different
names of sugar on a label. Like there's there's consumers that probably are trying to avoid sugar and they look and say there's no sugar in there supposedly but they don't, they're not familiar with the, you know, dozens of us alternative names for it. So they kind of get caught in the Trap and next thing you know they're just you know, bended on more sugar and high fructose corn syrup.
Now you're so right there 75 different names for sugar and it just it looks healthy, you know, on a health food package or whatever Akito pack is these are funny. You know where the supposed to be quote, unquote keto, or whatever, it doesn't matter. I mean it's all hidden and it's all added sugar, right? It really is difficult to separate cleave apart. What we call drug foods and Whole Food real. Feel food, you know, on the outside of the grocery store. Very difficult.
And this is I mean, I don't think we can get out of a problem. Robert, until we figure out how we got in the problem, right? And the story is really pretty simple World War Two, they had to have K rations. They create a k rations that were potable and portable for the troops. And a lot of companies sprung up just like Munitions companies and so when the war ended they
needed a business thing, right? Like, you know, the other people, they started making cars or steel or something, but the food producers, the k-ration produces started, creating products that would go on the shelf that would make life in that. That time easier for the mom, for the stay-at-home mom in the 50s and this just progressed to the food industry that it is that we see today. I mean, before the 50s and 60s, we didn't, we almost see a twill whole regular food. I mean, meat Seafood.
Foods vegetables, its roots with him and now, you know, 75% of the food contains sugar, and that's only accelerated since the 80s and 90s and so it really is a simple problem. But the problem is is no, not too many people alive or cooking or whatever, who understand the separation. And people just really believe that this is food. The things that you see in a bag or box in a can that is shelf-stable for years. Well, you know, whatever a year
is really not a food. It's a, it's a product made in a factory and so that's the hard part and and you know it's hard to separate that today in today's society but I think we're on our way. I'm very optimistic. Yeah, it's crazy. Because there's so many foods
out there or products. I guess is a better word that, you know, at first glance you would never assume our associate with a Product like bread for instance, you know, look at a loaf of bread and assume that it's kind of a lot of sugar in there. But he turned the label over, it's got a ton of sugar in there and there's like sugar is not something that's found in high concentrations in most in nature. I mean, there's fruits for sure.
But even the fruits that are out there, we've altered genetically to have much more fruit bearing, you know, flesh and higher sugar concentrations. So it's just very very out of line with what you know, Natural Evolution would have created from a sugar. ER, concentration standpoint, what you're hitting my, what's the way to label this?
This is the biggest push back. If not one of the biggest pushbacks, that I get this idea of the fruit that's been hybridized for 300 years and there is, and just for your audience, is an important part of the conversation in that half of the front, half of the sugar table, sugar molecule is fructose and half is glucose. We all know what. Coast is doing to the body. You know, I diabetes and raising your insulin and that kind of stuff.
But little is known or less is known about the fructose part of it. Now, this is fructose. That is definitely reduced to a white powder. It's been processed, but nonetheless, a glass of orange juice is going to hit the liver in the exact same way of Coca-Cola. Same amount of fructose, and fructose cannot be digested anywhere, but the liver, the can't be processed anywhere. It It has to be processed in the
liver. And so we end up with fatty liver disease, just like that story that I told you before the 1980s, if you had fatty liver disease, you you were an alcoholic. There was no other way to get it. But now 45% of the United States or the population has fatty liver disease and the beginnings of fatty liver disease. And it's a it's because of the sugar. We have an epidemic of five. Six year olds, with fatty liver disease, it's kind of crazy and
the hybridize fruit. Like, if you think back there is absolutely no human bodily requirement, that requires fructose. Not exactly sure. It's kind of a holdover from the Plant World and the evolutionary process of being able to disseminate the seeds and personally I believe it's an addictive substance that we were, you know, made To ingest so that we would spread the
seeds. But if you think back just 300 years ago, we ingested fructose once, or twice a year when things were ripe and we would eat that fruit or if you wanted to get risk, get stung by a bee, a little bit of honey. That's it a year, right? I mean, there's actually a disease in the books called fructose malabsorption and fructose intolerance two of them. They're trying to change the His butt and and people don't realize this disease even exists, right?
And so Fork Tous, if you want to really hone in on this problem is why a there's so much problem fatty liver and all that kind of stuff. But be is why we can't quit because of its effect on the nucleus accumbens. So it's a I like podcasts robber because it gives me an arc, it gives me an arc of time Time we don't have a meat as murder or a friends. Don't let friends drive. We don't have like a sound bite that just makes this all makes
sense. So, takes a little bit of time to set it all up, so I appreciate you having yeah, totally, totally. So I want to talk about, you know, different trends, that that people have studied.
It's been through, you know, a lot of epidemiological research and and meta-analysis people have looked at, you know, the charts as to what the, the average consumption of sugar is for instance, and The obesity rate is and things of that nature and correct me if I'm wrong with the latest research has shown a decline in Sugar lately at the Obesity epidemic continues to rise and people are beginning to think that it may be more more correlated to that of heavily processed seed oils
and vegetables you think that's playing a major role as well. I do, but the reduction I believe you do. The dive into the research is in the sugar-sweetened Beverages and everybody's kind of on board with that. And so, but people aren't realizing. As you mentioned earlier, how much sugar there getting in the added, the additives in their food products, right? And so, but I'm 110% with you on the seed oils.
I think that the inflammation in general but the seed oils for sure Is part of it but also like we mentioned that the the sugar is spread out over, you know, the food products, and the I don't think the can't. I know for a fact, if this is, you know, easy to look up that the candy consumption went up
during the pandemic. As people were locked in a lockdown and nervous about their emotional states, which we'll get to. I hope because it's a big part of why people Quit way, how sugar affects their emotions, but the reduction really has been in the sugar-sweetened Beverages. And even for the first time ever, the food pyramid came out last year and they've changed it every five or 10 years or something.
And they said, children below to should never have any added sugar and Below 5 shouldn't have. No sugar sweetened beverages, so that was a positive, but yeah. Has been it's a little deceptive. When you look at the sugar numbers going down, it's not really total. I mean, it is total it because the sugar sweetened beverages were Peak. They peaked about five or so, I think five or ten years ago.
I can't remember exactly when and that was a count counting for a lot of it. So it's been, it's pretty depressing to want down like a baby Island, a grocery store and see how much of the products like what percentage of the products for, you know, infants has Massive bolus of sugar in there. I mean, if you look at it, I mean, like the gestational diabetes and everything going on now, you know, from from mothers that are consuming way too much
sugar during pregnancy. Like, it just, it's just a downward spiral. It's just that's hurts my heart and that's the scary part, you know, kids. They don't mean to be cruel. I don't think when they're young, they're trying to front, you know, hang out with their
friends or whatever. But when, when there's an overweight child, it's really hard on the kids, over their lifetime as they grow up. I mean, I was a kid there wasn't we have a high school 3,000 people and I think there was maybe too obese people and very few overweight people. I mean it's really been an evolution. It now is mirrors. The adult numbers as far as overweight and obese children. And yeah, you're I mean, we are,
I'll show you say addicting. And I don't, you know, people don't like my drug analogies but tough toenails at this point, you know, we are addicting our children younger and younger to these products because they're they're learning, you know, your mom, she's grown, you know, she's busy, she had kids, she had A job and so when you were upset, she would hand you a cookie. She literally used it and use it to use these products to manage your emotional state, right?
Drugging our kids earlier and earlier and like you say I mean, there's it's it. We got to work to find baby food without sugar in it. You mean you have to be AB special stuff, pay more money, ordered online, whatever you really do. And and and it even goes to formula. I mean The cornstarch in the snow, whatever all kind of powdery stuff in there. Not necessarily sometimes sugar, but there is even actually sugar and some formulas. So, yeah, that's I think that's
criminal to be honest with you. I just don't think it's, you know, up to five years old, and probably Way Beyond. But up, to 5 years old, we, I have 110 percent responsibility for what are chilled, what goes in our children's miles and sugar shouldn't be one of them now. Even according to the US government's. So what was that like for you? Are you raising your kids without sugar until they were? He said six. And then at that point, they just had it like once a month or
so I've ever tasted. Yeah, it was an absolute War. We fought against their own grandparents, they're the parents of the kids, the Montessori schools, the regular schools. Everyone thought we were depriving them of some kind of like childhood or something, which is just ridiculous. And that then they would end up In revolting afterwards, none of which happened.
So and it's still this way, the fastest growing little thing we ever did was this little Facebook group of sugar-free kids where moms are trying to do this. And the same thing is happening, the same thing, the same societal reception or lack of reception when you try and say look, we're at a birthday party but we brought our own snacks and la blah, blah, you know, they just they want to fight you on it. And This is the beginning. Robert of a he a tectonic shift in understanding.
It's like seat belts in cars drinking and driving smoking and whatever it really is science. Now says that this is what I like to say, the right side of History this is going to happen in probably our lifetime at least we'll be able to see around the corner with the changes will be and children and I do believe this that Should have an ID and, you know, if you want to give it to your child when you know at home that's
fine. But they shouldn't be able to walk into a store and get candy and and soda it's just you know it the science is proving this pretty solidly now and and and for the first time like I said there's also a study came out actually a cooperation first time in history for medical associations agreed. On this know. Vote. No sugar sweetened beverages below 5 years old. American Dental American Pediatric, Dental bunch of them and that never happened in history. And so it's going to happen.
It is happening, you know? I like this quote, the future is not here. The future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed and the awareness is just not there yet. You know, we're just not aware of most people are not aware of this, the the ravages of the sugar stuff. What is it? Like, Practical tips that people listen to, this can take them.
And there's a lot of people that I talked with that want to, you know, have a sugar free environment for their kids, but like, when they take them to their grandparents or thing that that's when it gets tricky, because you get a shred that water and try and hurt me feelings, but at the same time like you? I mean, it's like what do you do? I mean, what do you what do you do? You know, it's a great question. It's a fair question because it's the same as adult for adults. The same thing.
Same exact worries, about food pushers, and oh, I baked this just for you and blah, blah, blah. It is a societal construct. We have these four core pillar video things and it is a one of the core videos. It's like it's a societal acceptance level. That is so high. And so unknown that you can't, you know, it's almost like you can't fight it. The only way to fight it is like almost anything in life. I'm I read a little bit about your stuff.
You know, you guys are into the weightlifting and kind of stuff and and it was like until you join that crowd, that new tribe of folks that wanted to build their body up and hung with them. You know, you got pushed back. It's all about joining a new trial. Tribe. A new group of people who have done their own research who's found the science so that you can, you know, not be swayed by the.
And I don't want to say ignorance but just the not yet knowing that the rest of the population still is under the, you know, the misconceptions about it because it's early. They don't know, you know, people like me and there's lots like me and we do these Summits every year. There's lots of Educators it. Just not well. Known. And so until that time in order not to feel isolated in order, not to be actually say, you know, ostracized or even if you are ostracized because people
get kind of Nance T really? You know, when you don't eat the food that they prepared or you you know don't go with the program because the desert came out at the restaurant or whatever. They they're like oh I'll put the record books away, you lost 50 pounds.
You can have a A little some folks can't moderate biochemically about a third of people cannot ingest this product without creating cravings and and you know, quote unquote fallen off the wagon and just going on a binge in a run for a long time and gaining all their weight back. It's just by it's a biochemical thing. It's not anything to be ashamed of. But again, this is not common knowledge yet so we have to keep spreading the message. What do you think?
What do you what would you say to those people that can have sugar with absolutely zero issue? Like where should they is? It kind of like the same thing as you know people that can drink alcohol with zero issues and be able to moderate that like more power to you? Yeah. Yeah. No we love those. No. Actually we all hate those people. These beasts us guys, who can't ingest it without it there
normies there. You know, they have that in the alcohol where like you say they can have a glass of wine and leave half of it sitting there. Are you like what the hell? I could never leave a half, a beer, have anything and most, not everyone. But you know, the people that have alcohol, issues are issues with sugared biochemically, they can't either. And some people can eat have a brownie and leave it sitting there and you're kind of staring at him, like how do they do that?
And so, yeah, I mean, it's a, it's an interesting shows, a cross-section of people, everyone's a little bit different but people who are In that about a third of people that can't shouldn't be ashamed. And I think that's the message we want to get out there. They shouldn't be worried about. It just is, it's like you're, you know, you're taller, you're short and dark hair or light hair, blue eyes or brown eyes.
It just a thing, you know. And we happen to evolve into a society that has this in it and once you understand it, it's hard to go back. Yeah, it'd be one thing. If like, your life was inherently better with sugar. Like if there was if there was something in Sugar that made you better then I would I would feel it important to figure out how to have a healthy relationship with it so that right, I couldn't good way but it's a great point.
There is nothing that benefits from increased Sugarman. Your body is able to create whatever glucose is necessary to for your brain to function, like there's no need for them. And I've been doing keto now for Years. I haven't had a carbohydrate based Mia with any sugar in six years and I'm continuing to thrive and that's that's not an uncommon story that happens all the time and I just don't understand why people feel like they have to have it.
Well, you said it very interesting phrase right there half to have it. And that phrase, you know, people don't like my transposing, the addiction recovery World, peer recovery harm reduction, these kind of things for my cure or my remission of sugar addiction issues, right? But the true fact of the matter is, is people do have to have it. Meaning that they they're not looking for a sweet treat.
They are looking for a dopamine hit and the body will go to any lengths, illicit sex, illegal drugs, it will do anything that it's been trained to do, you know, in cooperation with the brain and the rest of the body to get that dopamine hit and that's what we've trained, our children ourselves to do. And now the science is proving This very clearly on MRIs and so it's it really is again, a large gigantic awareness education, process process and progress. Because like you say, I know
thousands. Now of people who tell your exact same story, who used to be carbohydrate addicts and sugar addicts, they couldn't stop. They I mean hundred 200 pounds, overweight losing limbs going blind and they still couldn't stop. They were physically emotionally spiritually, mentally addicted to sugar, and it's a bigger problem than people think for a small percentage, are certain
percentage of the population. So yeah, I mean it's a it's like I said I happy to have you that you're having me on so that we can get this message out further. Well, let's dive into the psychology of it. Then what do you think like with any other addiction? You think the best way for people to go bad is to kind of go through a similar Step program or like sugars and sugar Eaters Anonymous, or what's the know?
It's a good question. You know, I did come up through that structure that I think it's probably the largest personal development organization in the world. Well, I know what it is. There's no if ands or buts about it, but in this is a big butt and I consider myself a 12-step, anthropologists have studied the deeply in the history especially the food groups and the food groups did. What's the right word anecdotally?
Work out this the problem not Overeaters Anonymous, Overeaters Anonymous is wrong, is wrong in its approach, and they have such thick dog. When that they can't change, they refused to name their absence mean, you can eat sugar and flour in that program and you can name it whatever you want, use your absence but there's a certain for offshoot programs that you know, met and Dusty Church basements. That said no flour, no sugar. And some of them weigh and
measure. So anecdotally for 30 years, they had some success, but a lot of people are not interested in the spirituality of that program. A lot of people are interested or not interested in the idea that they you can't evolve because it is what it is either in the book or it's not part of the deal. And the science is exploding around this topic and so a lot of people want to talk about the science. So, the answer to your question is? Yes, the good. Part is a good saying.
In the 12-step world, that says, take what you leave. And we and take take what you leave and leave the rest, right? So if you don't believe in God, it's fine. But really, what the people are going there for is the community. And I do believe at this juncture science is not enough and knowledge is not enough like this success of the 12-step stuff in the early years. You really do need a Support group, who understands, what's
going on with you? Because of everything we've discussed in the first half of this podcast of the social nature of it, the food price, you know, everything in the it's really, it's almost like you've become, you know, you're going to have to it's going to feel like you're transporting yourself to a deserted island and you're the only one there because no one around you 90 plus percent of the people that work with us. The people in their own family.
Their nuclear, family, their spouse, and their children or whatever are not on board with this. This idea, this process, this program of well, let's just try and get off it for a little bit. See what happens, just as simple as that. And experiment for 30 or 60 days. They're not into it. They're saying, no. I like my candy whatever. And so the answer to the question is along with information and knowledge is to is support the founder, the food
addiction. To do it has a great line, it says this needs an inordinate amount of support meaning you're going to have to have people who get you and have been walk the road that you're wanting to walk and can support you in it because you're going to be ostracized a little socially and even familial isn't the right word in your family. You know, it's interesting because there's so many different dietary belief. Oops and circles.
I mean you've got carnivore, keto vegan flexible dieting, the mentoring that like there's there's all over all different kinds and a lot of scientists look at that very critically and they say, you know, the diet should not ever become a religion. Let's just look at the research, what does it show? And I can totally get behind
that philosophy. However, I mean humans are not solely physiological there also psychological And I feel like a lot of these dieting circles exist for the aspect to community, man, that's that's why. Like, veganism for instance has is so strong. Like the research is pretty clear that a strictly plant-based. Diet is probably not going to be optimal from a bioavailability standpoint yet, vegans growing strong because they had that sense of community.
And I think you know, if we're ever going to reach any agreement on anything with with humans, you have to look at it in a much more holistic manner. Inner taking into account the psychology of why they're doing what they're doing and the biology of what's actually working from a physiological standpoint and I feel like the same holds true with what you're consuming. So if people go into it with this sense of community, I feel like there's a total, there's
obvious reason for that. Yeah, I know you're you know, you're in the middle right there. With that line, that statement that that of my huge, my largest thought problem right now. Ma'am largest thought issue because I don't have a problem, I don't want a name people's diet, I want them to choose it. I happen to agree with you about vegans and vegetarians. I think that they're I can tell you a story of my Evolution through that through veganism
and through. Fruitarian it is and then and really I think it was a step down from sugar addiction to be honest with you. But that said the war is fake, the war of veganism and carnivore and veganism and Kate and Kane paleo on keto and vegetarianism is a fake War. The real enemy is the processed food world. And again, there's no long-term studies in the history will prove. I think the the vegan stuff it's
a Long story. But you know, a lot of the beginnings of the dietetic association came from The Seventh-Day Adventist. The founders and everything. So it's a, you probably know that story, but, and again, this not my fight, I'm not in that fight, I'm not in that world. I think both of them can recover from sugar and Pop I called powder and diction processed food addiction.
I actually believe in this is First time ever said, this publicly on a podcast but I believe that veganism is a step towards the diet that you described and I lived it. I've been through it, I had acne in my 50s, my gums had bled as 25 years in Robert flour. No flour, no sugar. No caffeine, 25 years in and my gums are still bleeding.
I just got adult acne and I just finished a couple Of other things to learn a little brain lapses, literally basal cells on my, forehead diagnosed by a doctor, all of that, all of it disappeared after I gave up fruit and Grains. And so, you know, I think it's a step down. I think it's an evolutionary part of the people who are healing in the amount of people that have gone from vegan to paleo carnivore or keto, kind of All and improve their health is
unbelievable. But and I say that with trepidation, like I says, first time I ever said in public but because I know that without the emotional healing in the understanding that this is a substance use disorder. Processed food, addiction sugar addiction is a process, a process substance use disorder. It's not like anorexia. XU or bulimia, they're not even related, those are process addictions, like, gambling and sex. This is actually a substance use disorder where people ingest a
substance. It affects them, emotionally spiritually, their brain, reward chemicals, and then they crave more of it, and they have to have it to their detriment. Like I said, sometimes to hundreds of pounds overweight and all kind of diseases, and they still can't stop that. My friend is the definition of addiction?
Yeah I agree. Yeah. What about so when people like you know I've talked to several people that are much better at eliminating than moderating I feel like you know you can't ever get an Eliminator like a natural-born Eliminator to try and moderate. It's just never going to end well for people that need to cut it entirely. Yeah. Is it just simply a matter of time that elapses between them quitting it and then being comfortable with the fact they're never going to have it again?
Or what's your take on that? No, it's just not true. It really isn't. There is an emotional rejiggering there is. So here's the the whole Crux of our work and you know the crowning achievement I think of us understanding this is that when I describe mom giving the kid the cookie and pointing to the TV, we learn to manage our
emotions with this product. It's a ubiquitous damn Free product that is available 24/7, everywhere, anytime and we are, and we took advantage of the unconsciously took advantage. No, no one did this consciously, but they came up. And so when you stop and you cut it off, you literally have to re-do how you do emotions, how you do feelings? How you live your life and that's kind of harsh. But it's true, the very common well known Construct in the world of alcohol and drug recovery.
That if you started using alcohol and drugs at 14 or 15, you stop growing emotionally. Very well-known. It's like common knowledge in that world, but most people never heard of it. And your finances are a mess, your relationships are a mess, your career is a mess, you know, your health is a mess because you use drugs and alcohol. You you get to a problem and then you know 4:00 comes around and you get drunk and the Was still there the next day and you
never dealt with it, right? Well, we've been doing this as a society and as individuals with sugar and flour and processed foods and caffeine since we were in the womb. So when you stop, you literally go into a weird kind of shocked withdrawals, you know, sadness Dark Night of the Soul, depending on the level or size of your Habit in the mud. How much you Use it and how much whole food you were drinking and how much real water you were drinking.
Most people come to me and never drink water and imagine they never drank water. They never drank water, they drank soda or tea or coffee. And so, at that point you have, you know, you've heard the researchers, it's public. It's like it's like scientific lure. It's like everyone who loses a bunch of weight in gains at all back in the first year. And the reason is all diets
work. The paper they're printed on say quit the white stuff so they restrict the white stuff for a certain period of time exercise and end up losing some weight but why they can't keep it off. That's 90% of people gained it all back. And then some is because when a divorce comes up, when a financial crisis, comes up, when a covid comes up, people fall back to their go to emotional management system, which has been run by flour and sugar.
Sugar since they were in the womb and again podcast, I park for people to understand this lead it up with the discussion that we had and then kind of cap it off with this idea that is talking about all the other Concepts, we've talked about much harder for people to understand and accept it until they lived it and lived it with a guide.
Meaning, when you quit for three week, two weeks, and you're on your Own here like starting to be weepy one day for no reason, you know, you just don't understand what's going on with you. And look, I mean, I don't want to get too deep into the psychology of it all, but genuinely stuff that you've stuffed down for years trauma,
abuse bullying. It doesn't have to be sexual abuse or violence, sexual or physical violence, but anything that You have not dealt with emotionally, will begin to resurface again once you eliminate the product products and that unguided is why people can never succeed on diets quote-unquote and diet step require a lot of okay that's not even a diet, the requires all diets are no flour, no sugar.
That's how you lose weight period end of story and every 99% of all diets are ever written says the same thing. Got a bunch of other things around them like whatever some food plan or some exercise plan, but at the end of the day, that's what they say. And so when that happens folks are like where am I? What is this world that I just been transported to because I'm 21 days abstinent sugar and flour and you know they can't handle a kid crying. They can't handle a boss yelling.
They can't handle anything because they're used to going to the candy machine to deal with that. I know this is and can Stop me at this is getting crazy but it's the real facts of, you know, tens of thousands of detoxes that we've completed. Now. People tell the same stories on the other side. You know, they get 90 days, 120 days of 100% abstinence. And they say to myself themselves, I can't believe. I used to think this way they're literally and I'm getting heart.
I've been getting harder on this where People do literally don't have the mental capacity, to make the decisions necessary to abstain until they get 90 or 120 days in. Then there's slapping their head going. How could I have ever thought that? I could stop using sugar every morning for 10 years and then continue at 4:00 every day. How is this possible that my brain was able to do that continuously over 10 years or Or I don't know. I get on my soap, I'm sorry,
I'll get off. No, no, that makes sense. I mean, I've talked to several people that it's always bothered me that they can see incredible progress and then something will happen. I won't hear from him for a while, they'll go off the rails and then they're back worse than when they started. And I mean, it's like The Addictive mind and it's interesting, but it's sad to see
unfold firsthand for sure. Yeah, no. It's hard as tough to watch it really is because it was like, you know, 20, whatever I mean it's been over 30 35, now years of recovery watching my family, my friends deal with a drug or alcohol addiction, you know, in the sugar things the same. I mean, I'm telling you just five minutes in my inbox, five minutes on my instant messenger. These people with hundreds of pounds to lose losing Limbs and they can't stop it.
They say they're going to die but they can't stop, they don't drink, they don't and the most telling thing, Robert, the most telling thing is, I was an anonymous guy about my drug and alcohol, so my parents were alive. I don't know why that mattered, but it did, I guess. And, you know, I said, I never talked about my alcoholism.
So, when I started talking about it two or three years ago in public, I had this huge flood of people who Had been 5 10, 15 years sober, who could not put down the sugar and to a, man, to a woman, every single one of them said quitting, the sugar was and is harder than the drugs that they quit and the alcohol that they quit. These are people Savvy and addiction have quit. You know what other people call quote, unquote hard drugs, but they were never able to quit the
sugar and they had tried. They've been to the food groups. They've been whatever someone been to treatment. And they just still could put the sugar down, you know. Yeah. What's your take on highly? I mean really incredibly sugary tasting substances, like a lot of these artificial sweeteners and even some natural sweeteners that are not going to have near the impact from the glycemic. Index standpoints, you're not going to get near the glucose or probably not near the insulin response.
But you're still going to have that massive dopamine hit from something like a u. Looks for instance. Yeah. Not a fan and I'll tell you why. Because of years of experience that it's like, Pavlov's dogs wired together, fire together. What we're trying to move you away from is that the taste of sweetness? And once you give me and I liked your, you know, we work with that turn. Those terms to a moderator and abstainer, right? Some people can't moderate. Some people have to be abstainers.
And so if you give it, if you give someone a hundred 90, or 120 days of 100%, abstinence macadamia nuts, taste like candy peppers are Sweet carrots are sweet. It's like we literally reset in all of our work, we try and reset the natural taste buds and reception to sweetness back to the original factory settings. And this is like those sweet things and people don't like my drug analogies. But people that have drank people that are have, they'll
get this. And and a lot of people now that have recovered from Sugar addiction, they can get it. To is like, if you're drinking beer, you're looking for whiskey, you're drinking whiskey, you're looking for cocaine, the same thing here, when your brand hits that sweetness likely, like Pavlov's dogs, your concoction, whatever it is, had the artificial sweeteners and the regular
sugar. So when your body gets the artificial sweeteners, they start thinking about the real thing and they want that dopamine that more powerful dopamine hit and it's the Cravings that Trying to put to rest the physical Cravings first and emotional craving. Second, the work goes, very simply. Let's get you off the stuff physically and then we spend the next literally 365 days get you off the emotional and, and most of our slips. Most of our recidivism happens.
When folks have what you're describing. Oh was sugar-free candy or this, that and the other sugar-free, the worst offenders. And I believe this to be true. Sliding under the FDA rule with called natural flavors. These are these flavored Waters, right? Where you're seeing somebody pound in 10 a day and I'm like that's because I believe in, you know, I'm trying to get a food lab to take my business but they don't want to because their business goes from the food industry.
They not going to bite the hand that feeds them is that. I think there's fructose in it. I think there's crystalline fructose in those things. There's at least the stuff the substances you described in there. Artificial stuff that makes it so terribly sweet. Now, this is supposed to be flavored water or something is terribly sweet. But we find that this is one of the largest reasons of recidivism or following back or
falling out falling off. The wagon, is they tried these things, you know, so it's really more, again, back to the brain science than it is the physical. Yeah, no, I agree. I feel like if someone can moderate the sweetness and it's not an issue at all, you know, gravitating towards more of a Natural, lower glycemic, index sweeteners, probably much much better than just, you know, a lot of added sugars for sure.
But if someone has an addiction to that sweetness, that dopamine hit, that comes with it, simply avoiding any, you know, incredibly intensely sweet thing. Regardless of the substance of sweetening it is probably going to be key. It is, it is absolutely. I mean, proven to us time and time again. I just like everybody wants wiggle room. Everybody wants to wiggle room and I know.
It's hard, what I'm proposing is hard but it's like any experiment, like it, like the weightlifting if you're going to like you don't expect to be big in like a week or two, right? It's like got to give it a year. Gotta Give it six. You know, you got to give it some time. Same thing here. Your three four decades into this thing and you're expecting a change like right away, both your weight, and your health and everything right away.
So you kind of give it a little time and you got to give it. I called that N1 experiment you Got to get it. Like if you were to go to a doctor for a, what do you call it a scratch test for an allergy, right? It scratch it for ragweed and pollen all this stuff and see if you're allergic to it, right? Well my scratch tests are scratch, test is very simple, just give me 90 days or 120 days of 100%. Absence of. I'd say it's called, I'd say by into my keys little fantasy, 120
days of absent. And look, will refund. All your misery of it doesn't work. It doesn't work. If you don't find some kind of change. If you do not happy with it will give all your money but you know, it's kind of a joke, you know. I'll refund your weight loss, you know whatever yeah, yes I know it but no, it wasn't.
No, it's not, it's not a hard experiment and what we find the early adopters are I was, is that the early adopters are kind of pioneers anyway and whatever their life is you know out of their first one to go to college the first one to be Excel at a sport whatever, they were kind of pioneers anyway and they're willing. To these early adopters, they call it intact to jump out there and say, okay, I'll take you up on your bet. Let's try it and then they
succeed. So yeah, no, I totally agree, man. I think, I think this is something that needs to be brought to the Forefront of people's attention. Like for me, it's liberating to know that no type of food substance or any substance has a hold on me. Like if I had to point to addiction, I have it would be probably training like weight training like if I did not, wait train.
I would go crazy but I feel like I know that's a much healthier addiction as far as addictions and go and they being a slave to any type of food group. My Sam is walking and I have to walk. I forget, two days in three days, I'm I start to, you know, get a little squirrelly. Yeah. And again I think it's a, you know, it's a training of the true dopamine system.
You know, the one that's you were supposed to be the way that you were supposed to be using the system because in 10 There's about Lucien, we were active 10 hours a day, five hours a day, in some way, shape or form and so it, you know, we didn't really need any other, we didn't need a manual manipulation of the dopamine with the drug and we didn't need something. Because our body took care of all that.
You know, I think another really important factor is that if you remove some type of you know, dopamine, hi you need to replace that with something is like if like people don't like feeling like They're sacrificing it. They if they take something away they need to replace it with something. So for me, like I used to struggle with with eating disorders and what I found to be more rewarding was replacing that with, you know, what I'm doing with business and
everything. Like, I feel like I'm making an impact with my community, with a business with my brand. And I get a higher high from that than I ever got from the, you know, the, the selfish temporary high from binging on foods. And I feel like I replaced one, dopamine with a much better dopamine. And that's that's given mine me. The ability to just, you know, stand the test of time and keep doing and sticking with it.
Well, I can't agree more, I'm 100% and that's why people like yourself need to continue to tell the story because it's not, it's a very common construct in the world of alcohol and drugs. Again K Street Washington d.c. nonprofits. Big ones, you know big multi hundred million dollar kind of stigma reduction For drug and alcohol stuff and their only real PR work. It to spread the message. Is that more people like yourself? Tell the story because it's hard to see the other side of a
hundred pound weight loss. When you're weighing 100 pounds extra, you know, you can't really tell until you talk to someone. I always talk about the proverbial person who lost 100 pounds or 200 pounds. That person didn't talk about the food, they didn't talk about
the exercise. Talked about the emotional management recovery system change, they had to go through, they had to start dealing with things different, their parents, their relationship, they think, life had to change in that realm for them to stay off the sugar. So people are like, wait a minute, what the hell's that got to do with food? What's that got to do with my weight?
It has everything to do with your weight and the only way that other people, get that information download is that someone else tells them the story and you look at the picture of them a hundred pounds ago, And they're standing right in front of you at a normal sized body, right? Or or a right size body for them.
I don't like the word normal. But yeah, I mean it you got to keep telling the story and that's what the you know, our work is about and obviously I can tell you our work is about is to just keep telling the story because eventually people ask me what's your business model like and I tell them I sort for people who are ready because I'm not going to mention anybody of anything and I'm not changing Did anybody there ready to hear the message? So I just got to keep telling
the message. That's what it's all about, man. Like once you see this I like you said yet, you feel you feel like you've got your life back and so liberating that you're compelled to share it with others. And I mean when you're passionate about something like that that passion seeps through in the messaging and people can
tell it you know. First first glance the first time they're exposed to it like it's it's so incredibly transparent that it's that's that's what people that's where fulfillment in life comes from a my opinion. Been able to do something and make a difference in other people's lives because you're so passionate about it and they see the success that you've experienced with it and they want that for themselves and you help them achieve. That that's what brings my life of a mood for sure.
Yeah, I mean Pete I always used to think guys like Tony Robbins and whatever. You know, I had a career that was focused on making money, right? And I always thought this idea that they were just talking so they could sell their programs that the better reward in life is to help someone else do something they want to do and to help them improve their life and have somebody come up to you call you email, you testimonial whatever.
And I can affirmatively tell you, that's true, making money or helping somebody the feeling of reward is much better helping somebody and them understand ma'am, kind of percent when you're fighting the good fight and brother, keep doing what you're doing. Well, thank you. I mean you're also keep it, you know, keep the message going in your, you know, it all starts with it's funny because people come to, you know, come to me. Me wanting to know an exercise
plan and a food plan, right? And then I have to kind of download what we've been discussing a little bit and they still kind of don't get it takes a while. So I think a lot of people will be coming to you first for that. So hopefully we can, you know, you can add this information to your toolbox. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Well, I'll definitely be taking, you know, put it online and spread that information. So that's that's what with of our intentions.
Where can people go to find out? More about you, in the So sugar addiction.com, it's a good URL man. You did right by getting that one. I just bought sugar by probably, by the time of somebody's listen to this later. I also get can go to Sugar Detox.com. So I'm all in and this message. Nice. And also if people are interested the quit sugar Summit yearly has the biggest of the big I mean lustig tubs how we had Judy Collins the famous singer on last time because she's been off.
Sugar for 30 years so they know they can go there and check it out twice a year. That's a lot of fun. A lot, a lot of good information there. So any of those places heck you had. Yeah. Well Mike I can't thank you enough for taking time to jump on here with me, man. Like I said, you're doing what's right? You're making a difference. So, keep doing what you're doing and if there's ever anything I can do to help, just let me know. Well, thank you for so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Keep up the good work, absolutely take care.