Well, hello there, ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto Savage.com and today I have special guests Sim land back on the line and he is got a new book coming out. He's he's freaking crushing, he's got all kinds of boats that are already out, but this one in particular is about how stress can make you stronger, which is a very relevant topic right now.
With all those stressors going on in the world, we talked about how different stressors, both, physically, mentally emotionally, can have a hormetic effect on your body's resilience and ability to keep on going in tough times. So thoroughly enjoyed. Oh, this conversation, I trust you will as well without further Ado. Sit back, relax. Enjoy the podcast with some land. And we are live somehow I mean hey how am I doing a good? I'm glad to talk with her.
This is the. Is it the second or the third podcast that you've been on here with me? Well, I've been at least once but I'm not sure if it's the third or second, maybe like the second one. Yeah. It's we've had, we've had quite a few conversation. We kind of done with your backstory on the first one but then since then we've just kind of talked about every different Nuance of what are you diving into? And you've got a new book coming out, which is stronger by stress, is that right?
Yeah, yeah, it's coming out in August in August. So let's roll up our sleeves men. And this is something that interests me because All about, you know, hormesis, putting a strategic stressor on the body, to force it to grow and adapt and I have a feeling that's what this is mostly about. So let's dive into it, man. What what was the motivation behind this book? And then just kind of what were some of the different aspects of it? Where you take it?
Yeah. Well I didn't have like a plan to write this book about the you know once the you know pandemic hit then I was like I saw a lot of people freaking out about it and I also kind of you know kind of came to the conclusion Illusion that the society and the people we modern people tend to be very fragile in a way but we're not really prepared for these kinds of disasters and catastrophes.
So we're very much just living in this very safe environment and we're expecting that, nothing bad ever happens. But the problem is that these kinds of stressful events and you know, chaos itself is a very intrinsic part of the human experience and especially our history as well. So the, you know, it's very Should a very unnormal to live in this very safe environment where there's no conflict.
There is no, no famine. There's no, you know, floods, there's no, well, the reason in some areas of the world but rather to the most of the time we're living in a very pristine environment. And I think fear that just because of living in this very like a living in a very on, on chaotic environment, we kind of condition ourselves, not be able to handle All them. And that's why I wanted to put together like this sort of a book that deals into.
How do you actually leverage the benefits side of stress? And how do we actually use it to not become, like, wiped out from like this random events and instead just improve your health and become more resilient against them. I love it. I love it. I made an Instagram post a while back like long before this pandemic ever hit. But it was, It was kind of an unpopular pose because I was basically just pointing out the fact that We live in an environment that is just so
soft. So comfortable that everybody is just allowed themselves to become weak. And, you know, like if you were to rewind the clock, a couple hundred thousand years and it was like actually survival of the fittest that we kind of weed out the herd and then the strong wood over Pop would, you know, reproduce and that would be what filled the population now. It's like everybody stays.
I mean Health Care's better so you know, the sixth a sick longer and they don't get wiped out like everything just keeps Compounding and not that I want. And, you know, everybody just die off by any means. But I feel like we need to really have the fact that we should work to improve our immunity and proved our resilience to prove our strength, both mentally and physically on top of Mind.
Otherwise, you know, just from like an epigenetic standpoint, we're passing down these flawed traits to our to our Offspring and that's obviously not good. Yeah, exactly. And you're like I don't want to go back into those ages as well. Like, I don't want to, you know, go into a Vera where there's like some Warlords raging throughout the landscape and, you know, different kinds of asteroids, hitting the Earth and
whatnot. So yeah. Like I'm very grateful for the modern environment, but at the same time like, you know, we shouldn't take it for granted and we should always like have this sort of a, some sort of like a prepper mentality in a way that we, you know, a lot of We'll have Hill durin's they have insurance for their car. They have insurance for the house but what about the like insurance for these kinds of stressful events and that these
are random chaos that units. We will happen eventually in some shape or form. So, like, we need to have like some sort of, at least like a minimum minimum effective dose approach to all kinds of potential dangers that we come across. Like we should know how to like forage a little bit. We should know how to, you know, get Get by with our without like the supermarket we should have access to some food. We should have the ability to go
fasting for a few days. We should have the ability to go like, on some, you know, prolong with endurance, which you have the ability to also handle different kinds of like heat and cold and also things like, you know, and we should have like a like this sort of a voluntary engagement of doing those things as a way to keep ourselves conditioned and adapted to them because you know, once the once the event actually happens once the pandemic it's then everyone's going to go rush into
the store and everyone is going to freak out or, you know, for example, if there's gonna be some sort of a like Ice Age, then initially people are going to, you know, feel very cold and they're not really used to the cold where someone who is you know regularly engaged in exposing themselves to like the coach hours or rice plants than their have Like a tea, some sort of like preparedness for them 100% agreement.
So is the book like, is it like just looking at all these different aspects, both mentally physically and then just kind of breaking out like a, like, a minimum effective dose, like an 80/20 analysis kind of what people can do now, or how did you form at all this? Yeah, well the entire bookie is centered around. The concept of funny hormesis and hormesis. He's the biological phenomenon. Are a small amounts of toxic substance or like a stressor,
has a beneficial end result. So your body does it get like a small amount of damage from this dress, but it's gonna get used to it or adapts to it then get stronger. And actually so the best example is just we gifting and resistance training. So you are causing small amounts of damage to the body when you're lifting weights. But after you recover, then you actually get stronger and the
muscles grow. So for example, You know, the this during there are different examples for mises like fasting is for me is the so nice for me. It is the cold is Hazard hormetic, dose-response. Things like the EMF 5G, those things can have a hermetic dose and yeah, different kinds of substances like coffee, you can have a home, you can have it. So yeah, like that. There are all these different kinds of substances that even evolutionarily.
We've been exposed to like the gold different plant compounds, as well as physical exertion. They have been a part of our Human Experience. But the problem is also that you can all definitely take it too far and the key is to find the optimal dose for those things. What's the optimal dose for fasting? What's the optimal dose?
Or exercise the cold heat? And yeah, like just implementing them into your everyday lifestyle as a way to just improve your health and Longevity because the homies is not only it's not only going to make you tougher against those stressors, but it's also have like it's involved in the immune
system. It's involved with it just longevity and living longer because it's like one of the key aspects of or one of the key characters unique characteristics or similarities that a lot of the longest living organisms on the planet have is that they are living in this very harsh environments and harsh conditions.
For example like there's different kinds of whales living, in very cold, cold Waters clams, living in cold Waters where there's not a lot of like sunlight and not a lot of food as well as like even these naked mole rat. Which are very long living rodents, living in Oblivion some African country and they basically live underground. They have no here. They're like really hairless hairless rats and they look really nasty and really weird but they have like a really exponentially long life.
Span they live like maybe 30 times longer than the average Reddit and part of it has to do with because they're living in this like underground burrows and they are, they don't have access to a lot of oxygen. So there are able to kind of Of use a lot of their own CO2 or carbon dioxide to survive for longer and they also like even they have like mild resistance to pain and different kinds of assets. So yeah, they're even have a lower chance of developing
cancer. So part of it has to do with their like this, in my opinion, at this like a lot of this hormetic living environments where they're constantly under, like some form of exertion and modest amount of like this for me to express, you know, it's interesting because, like, You and I feel like we're speaking the same language. Like, we like intentionally subjecting our bodies to uncomfortable situations and scenarios that Force us to adapt and grow and strengthen our resolve.
And that's why we weight train. That's why we do these hot cold therapies. That's why we that's why we go fast and it's why we do these things but so much.
The population is, I mean, the vast majority of the population is on the other end of the spectrum entirely and they want to avoid all all uncomfortable situations to the best of their ability, like they strive for comfort and it's interesting because like I feel like this pandemic this, I mean I would hope anyways at this pandemic at least opens their eyes to the fact that look, you know, it's not always going to be sunshine
and rainbows. It's kind of nice to have a little bit of resolve, a little bit of a resistance to what the the world is throwing at you. So a lot of people want like a minimum effective dose, they want to do. Absolute minimum and reap the most reward. So like in the context of, you know, weight training or the context of, you know, hot and cold therapy, for instance, what would you say to these? People wanting to get away and skate by with the absolute minimum.
Like, how much are you? Suggesting they incorporate, like, what would you suggest to them? Well, yeah. So depends on their goals. And what are they trying to accomplish? So yeah, like there is definitely like a certain minimum effective dose that you can get away with like weightlifting and even like hot and cold, but there's also like the optimal dose. So like, yeah depends on how how adapted you want to become for those things.
Because the thing is that like them or let's say, for in the example of heat, then yeah there is definitely like, like the But the lower Threshold at which you get like all the health benefits but there's also like a higher threshold at which you become like just increasingly more tolerant to the heat.
So there's not like additional health benefits you just become tougher for the Heat and you're like, but it but it can it can be beneficial thing if you were like, actually in the desert or something like that, but it can also be kind of counterproductive. If you are just trying to get health benefits because you have to have the right, I keep pushing the envelope higher and higher to elicit the same benefit because like the more adapted you are too.
Particular stressor then the less effective it also becomes a
venture there. So that's why you like you had to take some deer or breaks from training and you're like not do the same thing all the time but generally I like to do some form of you know beneficial stress every day and the way I kind of cycle between them is a 4444. Those days where I do like resistance training and weight lifting then on those days I'm not going to do things like The cold or the heat because the cold exposure can actually blunt some of the beneficial effects
of resistance training, by shutting down the inflammatory response and kind of dumped dampening. The signal that you get from training because you need you know, the training itself causes some inflammation and oxidative stress and you need that small amount of stress and information to Signal the muscles grow and become stronger.
So if you turn it off with like the cold or like I'm taking a bunch of and then you're also potentially just not getting you're not going to see that much progress because you're, you know, shutting down the beneficial homeotic response. So in that sense in that sense I like to cycle between days where I do like resistance training, muscle growth and for the other days where I'll just do like the cold and the heat for the purpose of recovery, and that's usually on those like, rest
days. So I put, you know, minimally, I would say that you should do like some form of resistance. Your exercise at least like you know three times a week and you know in the example of cold and heat then once a week should be like the bare minimum. But yeah.
Like even our you know doing it three times a week again, is like also like a really good benefit because, yeah, for there's a lot some studies in Finland where they see that they can a sauna more than four times a week was Associated with like up to forty percent reduced. All-cause mortality and and and reduced risk of cardiovascular disease is also in this, you know, even even the smallest amount of.
So now that you can get away, you can do is even then it's beneficial but you know, there's definitely like doing it more often is also more beneficial so yeah. It depends on the how how much access to the have to particular thing and yeah like what's their goals? Totally totally at the Sun. Is is definitely my my next future purchase. Like if I'm gonna spoil myself is gonna be with us on it because it's just so much research that indicates the benefits of it.
And I don't have a sauna now but I just look at what all you getting from. Like the heat shock protein, the hormetic effect of it. I mean, there's just so much good that comes with the sauna use and honestly, it's good for the mind to like, if you can zone out and sit in a sauna for 20 minutes and just make that your meditation time or time to listen to a podcast. Cast or read a book like it just multi-purpose and you're benefiting on all fronts.
Yeah, totally like the yeah the heat shock proteins. They are like helpful to lower inflammation and repair these misfolded proteins. So they have like anti-aging effects as well as improved cardiovascular functioning. So the best or the most researched benefit off the sauna
and heat has to do with the. I just lowering risk of cardiovascular disease and improving just called vascular function and improving blood flow and those things because it does feel like home Work out if you are in the Zona and I like to I do both the infrared sauna, as well as the traditional sauna so kind of cycle back and forth to them and you're like both of them are good. But you know if I were to choose one because like in the state's the traditional owners aren't
that popular? Whereas in here in northern Europe they're pretty popular. So yeah. Like if I were to choose one then I will choose the infrared. Just because the infrared they have like a similar Or heat shock protein response and they has a have the same or similar cardiovascular health benefits. But you also get the infrared light which has a unique effect that you don't get from the
traditional sauna. So like with both are awesome but yeah like if I were to choose one them I would do the infrared. Yeah. And with the infrared correct me if I'm wrong here but you don't have to go near as hot on the total temperature because the infrared is kind of going deeper into the actual tissue, right?
Yeah like if we're talking about yeah the heat shock protein response then yeah you don't need to go that hot but if I were talking about like just again like if you're talking about the pure tolerance to heat and just being able to tolerate it, then you would need to do the actual heat with the traditional sauna. So yeah. Like the infrared sauna is great for all the unique kind of benefit. You get from the infrared sauna has to do with like improved like joint health and
mitochondrial. Whereas in my opinion I would I would think that like the traditional sauna would it would make you sweat more and would also like, let's say, you also like a maybe detox you more because of the script as well. So you're sweating more than your excreting, more of the, like different metals, and different pathogens out as well,
catchy catch him. And I know that a lot of the sound of marketing now, it's like they really trying to, you know, create a very low or zero, EMF out. Output in the saunas. You mentioned that there's a minimum effective dose, the EMF, is that something that you would want to include strategically, is that something better off just left out entirely? Well, yeah.
Like the thing with EMF is that we are already like somewhat adapted to it like I would imagine that if you take your grandparents then their tolerance to Wi-Fi and 5G is much lower than for someone like us who have already been exposed to it on a much more. Larger pieces. So I think the EMF thing EMF can have a beneficial effect as long as you get some downtime from it.
So you don't or you shouldn't want to be in a high EMF environment 24/7 because your body will never have the opportunity to you know, recover from it. So the thing EMF affects your body is that it's going to trigger oxidative stress and release as this sort of a free radical called proxy. Nitrate, which is like a really Ali massive free radical that's involved with a lot of like carcinogenesis and just overall inflammation. So if you're constantly exposed to it, then it's going to cause
problems. And you're just, you're not, you're not going to have like the recovery. So that's why. Usually, I would say that the most important time to have like a low EMF environment is when you're sleeping and and yeah, for that you can use like different grounding mats. You can definitely turn off the Wi-Fi. You should keep your phone on, airplane mode, whenever you're not, Using it and you should definitely not have it like underneath your pillow or
something like that. So that's why I like these sleeping environment should be like as pristine as possible because at that point your body you're also wreck repairs itself. The most, most of the antioxidant defense systems get processed during sleep. The red muscle, repair happens during sleep, fat loss. Mostly happens, during sleep, Muro, Muro repair happens, during sleep. So, yeah, like steep, is it
really critical? And if you are like, disrupting, your sleep with just being in on next. To our Wi-Fi router then. Yeah, I can have like a long-term side effects because we don't really have like that long term, you know, experience or data about how these things affect us catch here in this sauna in the Sona. Ideally, it would be the best to be also in like a relatively low EMF environment because the detox pathway is also widely.
If your, if your body is like stressed out because of being in an EMF soup, then it's also going to inhibit some of the detox Pathways. So ideally you should have Louisiana Sona. But, you know, at the same time, it's not like the end of the world but ideally, like I would recommend along the Amazon are such as clear. Light is the most famous one. The one, the my using as well as well as solar space which are both relatively low vmf gacha
gacha. What about I'm going to pick your brain on fasting little bit because I just get them with a five and a half day, fast s fast when we're done. And there's there's been a lot of you. Do you tell him, I, like, minimum effective dose and where you may benefit in one regard, but then, you know, lose out in another. So, like with regard to maintaining lean muscle tissue, you're obviously going to
maintain a lot more lean tissue. If your key to adapt to going into a fast because your body's efficient at using any stored fat you have, is there a point? Like, if everyone, if all things are created equal, you are key to adapted and you go through a fast, is there like a general, you know, point and which Any additional fasting time is going to not really have that much of an advantageous standpoint from cell turnover at off G. And you're going to start losing that lean mass.
Like is it like a point at which you say? Okay this is this is my you know classic 80/20 here. I don't need to go beyond this or else. I'm just going to sacrifice some that lean mass and I put that on a higher pedestal to what benefits I'm getting from the fasting alone are Yeah. So it's not like I think depends on like a lot what you're doing when you're not fasting as well.
So for example, like you mentioned if you are keyed up that you're eating like a low-carb, you do that then you don't need to fast for that long or at least you're going to get the benefits so much faster because you know, ketosis mimics a lot of the same visual logical aspects of fasting and it also helps you to go into our topology faster, because you your body doesn't have to burn through. Like a bunch of glycogen and you have like lower insulin levels.
So the generally, the benefits of a topology start to kick in once your liver glycogen has been defeated and once your insulin and mtor get suppressed as well. So in most cases it depends on the person and depends on like their body composition as well. If if someone like you who is exercising a lot, they're already doing training, they're not overeating calories. They're not obese. Then for them. It's it's much like a shorter
faster. Is going to achieve the kind of positive benefits and for them it's also going to become more catabolic and more muscle wasting faster compared to someone who is like overweight and who has against the resistance. So we had some individual depends on the individual but overall I would say, for most people who are like, you know, relatively healthy, then they don't really need to go beyond like three days, three days tends to be the absolute maximum.
In my opinion, for if you want to like maintain muscle, I got I would imagine that after three days, you would start to lose muscle. If you are like a very active individual and you have a high energy requirement and a fast metabolism, but at the same time like, you know, and they're like, you know, five day fast. It's definitely you could do it and you could like, get away with it, but I would say it's not necessary. Like you would already get all
the benefits. You need even from like a 48-hour fast, if you're like physically active, but I personally do like, 48 hour fast, maybe once or twice a month. And I'll do like a 3D fast once a quarter per year. So I would say that's a like a pretty good balance for in my opinion and for my like my
current energy requirements. If I were to be doing like some form of like actual competing then I wouldn't do like these longer fasts during like an actual competition season or something that at that point I would focus more on just the performance aspect but if I'm like just, you know, Cruising along and doing a just maintenance and Longevity mode, then I would have them on our. Yeah, like a regular basis. Every every, every few weeks I would do like a 48-hour fast and
yeah. Like I would, I would think the consistency is somewhat more important than how hard you push it. If that makes sense.
Like you could have like a 10-day fast once a year but it's not going to be nearly as healthy as if you were to do like a 48 hour, fast every month, you know, because Because the 48 hour fast every month, he's going to keep your like basal levels of autophagy somewhat higher than if you were to do which are like really hardcore once a year and you don't do anything related to that for the rest of the year. So I think the consistency is probably also like pretty
important. Totally, totally agree and did the longer five and a half day fast here simply because head and fasted in like, over a year. And I I just finished doing the competition prep and the reverse diet and I was at a pretty healthy caloric, Surplus. I don't ever recommend fasting in the context of being in a caloric deficit but since I had ramped up my calories and my Baseline intake was pretty high.
I wanted to go ahead and push it into a five and a half day fast, but now that I've done that, I've wiped the Slate clean and I'm starting fresh. I think what I'm going to do going forward is every quarter, you know kind of like time a deload week with my training in tandem with a you know three day fast or so. And then Continually do that every quarter. That way, I'm not really risking
any loss in muscle tissue. It's kind of giving my body a reset because I'll be in the maintenance caloric intake or in a surplus even being in a building phase and I'm not just constantly overloading on my digestive system and everything else. But having that, you know, continual quarterly fast, I think is key. Yeah. It's a, it's also, like a good
reset. So, for example, you know, muscle building your body also Comes you know, more resistant towards muscle growth, the more or the longer you do it. So if you are constantly like a bulking mode and you are constantly like eating a higher-protein diet all the time, then your body somewhat adapts to it and it becomes less effective. So doing like a longer fast like a three-door. Friday. First is like a messy reset for muscle growth and mtor signaling
specifically? So it's going to make your body more sensitive to like at further muscle growth. So yeah, like it's a good idea to have some periods for you. Using got sausage and resetting mtor, if that makes sense. So, otology actually also involved in like the adaptation towards X towards the stress that you experience from exercise. So you don't really want to like blunt it or stop it completely either, right? Right speaking at a muscle growth.
I saw a picture of you on Instagram not going on. You're looking freaking jacked and shredded man. What are you doing right now? Like preparing for something big photo shoot coming up or something? No, not really like It's just like the summer and becoming, you know, more more ready for the hotter weather and that's all the things. But yeah, like I don't really have like, I don't really go into very massive Surplus, even, you know, the other times of the year, I'm relatively around my
missions. Color is all this, huh? I'm so it's somewhat easy to just maintain, you know, a lean physique. If you are doing some fasting and especially keto as well. And just Eating like a, the Nugent on side so it's you never really feel that you that you go when I like a like a rebound after a diet or something like that, because it's very kind of sustainable totally agreement.
I've done that before. I've finished the competition prep in which my calories really low and then I won't have a very unhealthy rebound and put on, you know, 25, 30 pounds immediately post show, and it's just so unhealthy. It's just your body is just, it's just, it's just overstepping the bounds, it's not necessary.
Now, I try to keep it within, you know, 10, 15 pounds, tops of, you know, my 4%, treaded, competition weight, because anything beyond that, I would just feel like this is not
warranted. Plus you don't have to be like there's this old wives tale, I guess in the bodybuilding community that you need to be just a lot heavier on the body fat front in order to really optimize muscle growth, and you do have to have some more body fat, you do have to have some more calories, but you do not have to be obese in order to maximize your ability to put muscle on in the offseason.
If anything, I feel like you're doing yourself a disservice because if you put on too much weight and you can have a dip in your cardiovascular strength and then you're not gonna be able to perform a given set to its full potential which is going to result in less you know, strength increasingly muscle tissue increase in the first place. Yeah. Totally I agree.
And yeah, there's there's definitely like a point of diminishing returns when it comes to even like the yeah, like eating too many calories and having to kind of maintain that amount of mass is a yeah. Eventually going to become pretty taxing to the system. Yeah, totally totally. So we talked about the heat shock protein to talked about the fast. Tim talk about weight training. What are some other lesser-known stressors that have a hormetic effect that aren't really in the Limelight?
Like, what are some of the things you wrote about in the book that people don't really hear that often? Yeah, well Kohl's is as certainly like the good kind of a cousin to heat and the song is so cold. Also triggers a similar stress response but it does.
So through things like cold shock, proteins, and kosher proteins are somewhat similar to heat shock proteins, but they also have like a You know, strengthening effect and they tend to I would imagine at least for my personal experience, I can tell that the cold and Ice pads. They lower inflammation, much more drastically than the heat, and they also like reduce muscle soreness.
And that also think about the example of like ketosis and fat burning then, cold exposure helps the body to convert white adipose tissue into Brown adipose tissue. So, the brown adipose Is considered like the healthy fat, which is going to improve your mitochondria functioning and it also helps you to regulate heat, whereas the white fat is only
for. Like, you know, the calorie maintenance is not helping you to, you know, adapt to the cold and whatnot is only used for, just maintaining your calorie balance. So, yeah, the generally longevity Hill. The brown fat is associated with
the better longevity as well. That's like the biggest difference between Them. But again, like, cold exposure helps to also lower inflammation with, with through things like a Google Earth ion and the general detoxification is also helps with some form of like a cardiovascular health but again like it's it's something that you shouldn't do, you know, straight off the bat. That you stopped jump into an
ice bath. If you've never done it, this also has to kind of build build it up to a certain extent because all of those things can have negative side effects. There are people who have, you know, passed out. Time job damage to health as a result of it.
So you should certainly, you know, approach everything with, like, from the perspective of where your adapted at and do it in a like a just the same way you do it with weights, you don't slap on four pounds or four plates for the squats for the first time in your gym, you, you can have to gradually build up your strength and get stronger through like a
progression. So in the concept of code therapy, how would you recommend someone They like for me is example I don't really do I mean I go hunting in the cold stuff like that, but I don't really have any, you know, planed cold therapy that I incorporate over the course of a day or a week or a month. How would you suggest? I start like, get a big horse, trough fill it full of water, and then just each week and another block of ice.
Or how did you go about that? Well, the first place to start is to just do some cold showers, and that's the easiest place and yeah, like doing Like you can, you could do like a cold shower every day. There's not going to be any negative side effects do that. But the only time that you would want to avoid cold exposure is like, after exercise or after a week training, especially because it's going to again like shut down some of the beneficial adaptation that you get from
exercise. Since I personally like to do with them only in the, like the first half of the day, or before my exercise, and then in the in the evening, I may do it as well. If I work with, I want to connive if it's too hot or if I want to like fall asleep faster. Usually, for me the cold helps me to get a like a good night sleep as well, but it may not do for some people. But yeah, generally, I have like a small ice bath here, which I'm using almost every day in the morning.
Usually it's good, it's good. Start for the day and increases like alertness and gives a lot of energy, but yeah, like if you start with the cold shower, then you could Gradually more want to something like like you could have like a just if you have like some sort of bath or a top, then you can fill that up with cold water. And there are also seen some people using like these freezers empty freezers, but for them, they would have to, you know, plug it in somehow and keep the
water Frozen or cold. So, I haven't done it myself, but I'm definitely, I'm sure there's a lot of, like, tutorials online where you can use like this regular Refrigerator. And you can use it as an ice bath catchy catchy. I've got a big chest freezer. Imagine you take the meat out of there and stick myself in and stay. Yeah. What, what else, besides the hot and cold. I mean what what are some of the things that are lesser known to space? What else read about the book?
Well, yeah, I also cover a lot about the mindset and just sort of like the psychology because in my opinion, stress is a highly subjective, and it's very much depend upon like our own perception of it and the way we perceive it. So, for example, if a person is sitting in a sauna, then they may actually enjoy themselves. You know, it's it's slightly hot but you know, I'm sitting here and it feels kind of good. Maybe sitting here with my friends were having a good time,
so it's an enjoyable experience. Whereas, if you were to be exposed to the same amount of heat in a different scenario, like you're actually in a desert, you don't have a kind of the environment and the way you interpret that environment and that situation. So the psychology is massive and the Brain can't really tell the difference between like a stress that is real. And I stress that we kind of imagined in our own head. All of them have the same
physiological response. So that's why I believe like having your mindset one point and kind of ask reassuring yourself that this kind of stress can actually be beneficial for you. That's like a really important thing because it's going to prevent you from getting hijacked by your emotional response.
And it's also going to negate some of the negative side effects because if you freak out while sitting in an ice bath, and if I freak out while exercising, for example, then you may override some of the potential benefits just because you turn that. Small amount of stress into like, over Brewing stress and it becomes like a small amount of trauma. Totally and 100% agreement.
That's why I like, I'm a huge advocate for, you know, stoic philosophy and just kind of really, like, I'd dive deep into sources. Like, that's, that's had a profound impact on my life, but for me, personally, that's kind of what I equate to conditioning the mind. Like, if you look at an obstacle, or if you look at a, you know, a hurdle in life and you you re address the way you
view it, and view it instead. Ed as a, you know, a positive or a way to learn and grow from the situation, then it no longer becomes a negative. It becomes this positive in your life and you embrace it and then the way you respond to it as much better. So like for you personally, what are some good practices that you're putting into play? That that help that hormetic, affected the mind?
Yeah, it's all absolutely. Like I'm also a huge fan of stoicism and I think stoicism he's like the best menthol Like a mental perspective for stress because the stoic stem cells already said, like centuries ago, that the only thing you can control in this life. He's your own like thoughts and, and actions. So you can't control the weather. You can't control pandemics. You can control different kinds of stressors. You can't control other people. You can only control how you
respond to them. So, that's why. Yeah, kind of just a just a mere fact of remembering that And reminding yourself that don't a continuous basis can be like a very protective protective like a mechanism against future stressors because like if you have already like contemplated over the fact that you may lose your wallet or you may you may miss the bus or you may, I don't know, get robbed or you
something, something like that. If you've already thought about those things, then you roll already, kind of pre-emptive, the prepare your mind to handle them. So it's called the - visualization and stoicism you. Of think about all these potential negative things that may happen. But the key aspect of it is that you're not like pessimistic about it or you're not depressed, you don't become anxious, you envision those
things happening. But at the same time, you also Envision how are you going to respond? What are you going to do? Like what are you going to do? Actually if those things happen so you have like the sort of a game plan and uses like mental rehearsal like like all high performance athletes do it. They mentally, rehearse their race. Ace before they actually do it and the same applies to like Navy Seals and different kinds
of performers. They all mentally rehearse, these things and putting like this sort of a like a negative event into that mix can be a wreck really good just mental practice against them, the potential stressors.
Yeah. I feel like a lot of people they look at socialism at the onset and they just they just assume that it's very pessimistic or they assume it's very optimistic, where in reality it's neither of the above like I You know, it sounds kind of morbid, probably, but I'll visualize and imagine the things that are close to me in life. Whether it be, you know, the business that I built there are
on, like, a personal level. Like my wife Crystal, my parents, my brother, and I'll Envision what it would be like if I was to lose them. Just all of a sudden, like what
would I do, how that respond? It's not like I'm wanting that to happen, obviously, and it's like, I'm just happy-go-lucky, assuming it never could happen, but when you visualize that, then not only does it. It strengthen your mind and resolve to be able to respondent that actually was the case, but it makes you appreciate them in the moment being there that much
more. I feel like my relationship with, with those loved ones has grown stronger because I have envisioned, what it would be like without them. I feel like a lot of people they just turned a blind eye to that and then they don't live in the moment because they just assume that it can never be taken from him. Yeah, yeah. And goes back to just this idea that nothing bad could ever. What happened to us? It's like, a, it's a only happens in movies.
Like The Happy Endings are only guaranteed in certain Hollywood movies, but they're not guaranteed in the real world. They could happen, but the same time, little things can also be taken away from you. And yeah, I do think that stoicism has like a good balance between the optimism and the kind of preparedness, so it's not pursue Mystic like, yeah, I
totally agree that. I feel more grateful for The things that I have and I feel more appreciative of everyone around me as well because of thinking about this sort of grim topics and reading different books and stuff like books and kind of reminding myself that yeah, there could be like some disaster or any moment. But, you know, in research,
there's actually that optimism. He's associated with like a stronger immune system, but only if, if the stress isn't too demanding and it's just like a small amount of stress, you know, something To maybe just missing the bus or again, like maybe having a deadline that sort of stress, in that scenario is optimism, is associated with a stronger immune system.
But if the stress becomes larger and the stress becomes more uncertain and uncontrollable more chaotic, then optimism is actually associated with a weaker immune system.
So it's like a inverse effect. And the reason has to do with because of optimism itself has like a hi Energy demand like in order to stay optimistic, your brain needs more energy because you kind of have to fix it until you make it and that that demands more energy from it. Whereas and if you add that energy Demand on top of the already existing high energy demand from the stress, then it just becomes like overbearing and therefore it takes away resources from the immune
system. Whereas, if you were to like have a somewhat more of a stoic mindset, then I would imagine that in a high-energy stress. And environment you would also you wouldn't see that decreased immune system just because you're not you're not lying to yourself that. Oh everything's going to be okay. I'm gonna go make it out alive and that's the thing you're
going to actually. You're more grounded in reality but you're not like panicking, you're not taking a you're not controlled by your emotions by the at the same time, you're also more grounded and you therefore have like more rationality and more like more you know reason reason to Act in a more appropriate appropriate way without being overtaken by the stress. That's very interesting and I didn't think of it like that that makes a whole heck of a lot
of sense. I mean, I look at what's going on now with this pandemic in the coronavirus and everything. And, you know, a lot of the people that are catching it and faring very poorly with it or those that have a compromised immune system, they're not healthy their metabolic dysfunction the first place. But I'd be there would be no way to test this, obviously, but it'd be interesting to know. What's percentage of these people's cases?
Got worse. Simply because they didn't have the mental resolve to accept the facts as they are and willingly fight, what happened? I mean, so many people are just stressed out beyond the wildest believe right now and they feel lost. They feel depressed and they just give up. And then when you have that mental shutdown, you give up, then why in the world would your body want to keep fighting? Like if you mentally shut down and accepted defeat, then why is your body going to do otherwise?
Lies. Yeah, it's yeah. So are we like unfortunate your way that there are like a bunch of different stresses and it's also very just sad because because of like the media and the News are also hijacking, this fear response. So to say that they are making things worse and the fear weakens the immune system and because anxiety weakened immune system. So yeah, your overall stress resiliency would also become
lower as a result of That's all. We had some, you know, part of it. You, you know, you have to have like a very, you know, very you shouldn't be depend upon many things. Like you shouldn't be depend upon a like a paycheck, you shouldn't be, but depend upon on like Pharmaceuticals, you shouldn't be depend upon maybe some some food sources you should have like at least some like a safety. Net for all those things.
You have like some food that you have stored, you should have some food that you Grow yourself. Maybe you could have like a these some additional resources that you can use whenever things get South. So yeah, it's a, there has like a buffer zone, you should create for yourself. And yeah, definitely. Just the exposing yourself to stressors and kind of
conditioning, your brain. To handle them is also pre-emptive strategy for them because they are like, once everyone can act tough, and when it's everything is safe. But I once read once the chaos really hits then, You can see the true colors of people sort of say, like, everyone is going to either freak out or they're going to stay calm and the like, if the chaos really hits and if you are under some stress, then
you're the ability to stay calm. It's like a really important because you don't want to lose your just like rational thinking you don't want to become hijacked by the stress response, total agreement. I don't know what it's like, you said, you're in Finland, right? Estonia in Estonia track, I always forget. That well I don't know what it's like in Estonia, but in the state's it's kind of crazy man.
Like it's all subdivided based off of location, you know, people in New York corresponding different than people in Arkansas. But as though as a whole America's just, it's just crazy man. It's crazy to see how people have responded in light of the news, the media, you know, the virus and the now, you got the racer, the racial riding, it's just it's just crazy. What's it like in Estonia? Do you feel like it's is a You given you more faith in human society or less faith in human
society? Well, at the moment it's pretty calm here. Like, we, we aren't under lockdown anymore. There's not a lot of new cases and yeah, like everything is pretty much open as it was before. I am not sure like what's it like in the big cities, but here it's relatively normal or the same. It was before good. Good. I'm hoping that things clear up here. Here because it certainly needs to before everybody just goes ballistic or more.
So ballistic. But do you feel like having this pandemic in this virus and everything and all that its impact is gonna you think, you think it's going to be enough of a stimulus to force people, to open their eyes and wake up to the fact that they it's not always going to be sunshine and rainbows. Like, do you feel like this is going to motivate people to become more resilient, or do you think they're just going to go back to doing what they've
always done? Well, I would hope so that they would wake up but yeah, like unfortunately I think the human nature is very stubborn. We don't really learn a lot from our mistakes and I think a lot of people would go back to their old habits and like back to their normal way of living. But I think the smarter ones and I do II did see our I did think that it was I got somewhat of a wake-up call for a lot of people and it did kind of shaked them up.
To say, and they did become more aware of their or concerned about their health and more concerned about Justice in about living and self-reliance and those things. So I am optimistic about it. But yeah, I think the yeah, yeah. Like generally generous the people may be heading in the right direction with it and again, like this wasn't like that big of a. It was very like, a good wake-up call in a way in a sense that it wasn't like a massive of massive.
Massive like a disaster. It wasn't the Black Death Or it wasn't some sort of asteroid hitting our our globe. So yeah, it's really was like a good wake-up call in a way that it wasn't. It wasn't that particularly lethal but you know, it's not over yet either. So yeah. We just have to wait and see in Beijing at the copy of your book and learn how to get stronger by Stretch. Right?
Yeah, it was good. It you said it goes, it comes out in August is that Yeah, it's in the middle of August, August 17, very nice, very nice. Well, what is the link for that? It's on Amazon on Amazon, right? And you get shoot Manhattan. I've looked up your your Amazon account headache because I just get your other book, but you get shoot, like, was it 10 plus books on Amazon now? Well, I think some of them maybe just listed as one of one of them being like the Kindle, and
one of them paperback. But, yeah. In total, I have like 5 bucks, 5 bucks men. So how do you, what is a typical day look like for? You just from a Activity standpoint because you're pumping out books non-stop. It seems in, you're also doing all this hot and cold, therapy your training. You just, you just staying Savage, man. So what does a typical day like for you right now?
Well, generally I believe I got that these different kinds of routines and habits are like a very Cornerstone to any kinds of both success as well as overall just stressed out of station and health. So having Having these kinds of routines and habits is also like a pudding like putting the your health on autopilot almost. So if you're doing certain things on a regular basis on by on a routinely basis, then you don't have to exert like that much willpower to do them and
you don't, you don't waste time. You don't waste any to intimate time, so there have just because of you're used to doing them. So that's why I like to like adopt. Let's say certain rules that I follow every day and I liked it by sick my days in two different parts. So the first part is right in the morning after wake up. So that's the kind of the part where I'm just focused on productivity and yet the writing code, Recreation podcast, whatever it may be just to just like focus on.
The most important aspect of my work when I'm not distracted and when my mind is the most fresh. So that's that's the morning in my opinion and after that I'll, you know, take a break all also have like scheduled walks, I'll you know, walk in nature.
Take a listen to some audio books, get my knowledge from that and also like just have like a daily daily routine for some form of exercise, whether that be resistance training, whether that be just the longer walk, so maybe cardio or some sauna and that's all the things so depending on today. So I always kind of dissect my D into different different blocks.
And one of the blocks is always ready to work, one of them is always reader to just like health and fitness and of course like the last block is usually where I'll just, you know, relax and you know, not to really do something that is very stimulating. I'll just, you know, try to calm down and the wind down for sleep and prepare for that cat. It can ya think? I think having a very Not necessary rigid structure because you don't be so rigid
that it sets you up for failure. But having a systematic block down system like that in which, you know, if you at least get these boxes checked, you can consider the day a win. I think that's hugely hugely important. I've been trying to do that myself for the last 10 years of my life. And I feel like if I've if I continually get some form of exercise in some form of, you know, consistently eating healthy in.
Obviously, I'm in some form of like self developmental growth You know, if I can do those, those three things at a minimum, then I can consider the day of win. Yeah, it took told I like the the ability to be flexible is also very important because if you are very rigid, then you're leaving yourself vulnerable to the stress because there is going to be some days where you're not able to have like a full an hour session for your workout or something.
So you have to do with only like maybe 15 minutes or something, which is still better than nothing. You just have to like adapt and you just have to make it work. So yeah, it's always like have it like I In my book, I also talked about it in the routine section and it's called like the standard operating system. So to say Sops that you have a stand there operating system for these random events.
Like if I like for example, if the if the gym gets closed down then I'll just go to the park and I'll do some calisthenics or I'll do some burpees, whatever it may be. If I lose the internet connection and I won't be able to like write or do a podcast then I'm going to read a book or something. Else read ads so and yeah like
that's that's a little thing. Like if having this you know stress resilient routines and response systems towards everything you do and they base is also like a good strategy because it's a great way to just prepare and also prevent yourself from getting lost in the stress and Chaos totally agree, totally Green. Well, apart from the book give come. Now, what's the next thing on the horizon for you? Have anything else in the works?
Well, I haven't like started working on it yet but I'm work considering doing also like some sort of like a documentary about the same concept the or a documentary series about stress and hormesis. So that's not like really you know conclusive yet about it's in the planning. I'm considering it at the moment. Let It Go, man, I'd watch that for sure. I feel like for you. A good grasp on the stressors
and what not? And I feel like it just all of this goes pretty well with, you know, just the philosophy and the day-to-day structure of, you know, if you're following it. Low-carb, kids think that if you're following us a workout routine, if you're having stoic mentality, like all these things, they just they work in a symbiotic fashion with one another, for the betterment of you personally, and just society as a whole. So I don't know.
I like seeing how it all fits together, So good kudos to you for compiling it all into a easily digestible book that people can pick up and and Garner some information from. Yeah, absolutely I think so. Yeah, I agree. It's in a weird way. It is a very symbiotic relationship that you know, fasting itself is a stoic practice and being able to tolerate discomfort. He's a stoic practice and is also like a hermetic practice. So yeah. We heared way that you get
around the kind of complement each other. % ma'am, 100%. Well Sam, it's always a pleasure talking to you brother. There's anything I could do. I mean shoot, let me know. I'm excited and eager to help in any way, I possibly can. Yeah, definitely and yeah, thanks for coming and we should stay in touch. Definitely. I'll tie the Amazon is where the book will be on August 17th work. Where is your primary platform?
Well, my website gives us even on.com and also seam lines on all the social media platforms, like YouTube and Instagram. Um well, I will link it to that as well. I'll put the other podcast in there, too, because I feel like those are solid podcast as well. So keep keep killing them and keep doing what you're doing. Yeah. You're too. And yeah, let's keep pushing. Yes, indeed. Take care brother.