Hello, ladies and gentlemen, Robert Sykes keto Savage.com. And today, I've got Seth Barner on the line set is a current client of mine and we dive deep into the world of Eating Disorders, disordered eating food, addiction, other addictions, all that, that entails.
And it's interesting because if y'all follow along with my story, any length, you know that I've definitely battled with disordered eating at some points in my past he is currently going through disordered eating and we just dive into What's going on from a psychological standpoint, from a physiological standpoint, how this is impacting our day-to-day life, but relationships how to overcome it, how to beat it, how to learn from it, how to make it sustainable, how to make life
better, and just get through it. And I really, really enjoyed this conversation. We Dove deep into the mindset of why we do what we do and I feel like this is going to be a very informative episode for y'all. Whether you're struggling with eating disorders, are not Because everybody's got things in their life that they struggle with and we talked about many things that transcend just disordered eating as a standalone. So without further Ado, sit back
relax. Enjoy the conversation with Seth We are live. Seth, how are you brother? I'm doing great Robert. How's your morning? Pretty good, man. I cannot complain. I'm happy to have you on. We just to give people some context you or a client of mine and we've we've dug deep into
lots of different things. So I don't want introduce you the I want you to know yourself kind of give give the listeners a little background as to who you are and then I guess we can kind of set the stage as to, we're going to be diving into here. Sir. Yeah, so I know we've worked together for a little bit now and I apologize if there's background noise.
So I'd say, I guess it's been, I don't know, three or four months of it working together, but prior to that, I had been through, I don't know, five or six different coaches. So basically I've dealt with binge eating off and on for product the past 12 years 32 now. And I don't like to classify My Life by binge eating, but that's the context of our Listen, chip. That's I know what me to work
with you originally. So I would say, I Fitness has always been something that I valued, highly and health and nutrition ever since college. And while that was at one point, a I guess extreme passion of mine. It it became on the on the opposite end of the spectrum and extreme struggle through binge eating. And I feel like I've been through every possible coach every possible technique every possible.
I don't know, every possible program out there regarding this and through it. I've been able to learn a lot. I've been able to help some other people with it and it's still something that I would never say I'm perfectly on the other side of But just in since you and I have started working
together. I've learned a lot about myself especially in how keto has been extremely helpful for me personally, but just a lot around the mindset behind binge eating as well as just really how that affects every area of
my life. That's a little bit of a scrambled summary, but yes, no we are now I think I think like I was really motivated to get you on the podcast because Cuz when I first started putting out, it's actually it wasn't when I first start putting out content but when I had been putting that content for quite some time, I made this like my story part 1 and part 2 video series that gained a lot of
momentum. And people really appreciated just the brutal honesty as you are because I talked about the eating disorders that I didn't struggle within that. And I feel like once I became open about that, that was one of the best things that kind of helped me gain some momentum and break free of my disordered eating and Like you, I mean, you kind of are still in this ever ever changing process of figuring out what's gonna be the best thing for you.
So I kind of wanted to give you this opportunity to just get your story out there because I feel like having for whatever reason, just simply talking about it, and knowing that other people know, even if they never interact with, you just simply knowing that other people know seems to have this weird, you know, pulse on on just fixing it.
And that's, I mean, whether it fixes it or not, I wanted it to give it a rackleff like you can offer a ton of value because so many people are going through what you have gone through and are currently going through. And I feel like you have a great story and a great great feel for how it's impacted your life that a lot of people can relate to. So I just kind of wanted to give you that opportunity to share that story.
Yeah, absolutely. I first of all, I really appreciate this opportunity to do this because I have found in other areas that being able to verbalize something, especially even in just our phone calls, being able to verbalize something. Sometimes you find your own answer through doing that. The answer that you thought you didn't have, but you did you just couldn't get it out.
And I remember very specifically when I first, I remember exactly where I was when I first started listening to your podcast and I was like, I need to hear this guy's story because I've heard, I heard you reference it in your podcast.
That was the first thing I did is like diving to YouTube and find that my story part 1 and 2. And so I remember listening to that and at that moment thinking I at some point would like to do something like That and I think that this is great because it allows me to share that and not procrastinate and doing it. So I guess so as far as the binge eating is concerned.
So I guess that started about Yeah, quite a while ago, when I was in my senior year of college I was really into running as training for marathons running, was my life. It was my identity and I got injured in a marathon and was unable to son able to run or bike for six months. And so, I went from having all those endorphins everyday from Those runs that Runners tie as they call it, to not being able to do anything. And it started with just, I remember one night, just going downstairs.
And I lived in a house with like four other guys went downstairs and in the middle of night started eating some peanut butter out of the jar and just did not stop. I just kept going and woke up the next day felt awful had no idea why I did that and then proceeded to do it the next night and the next night and the next night and Adventure. It eventually got to a point where I just it was so contradictory to the person I was and it really tore me apart.
I had no idea why I was doing this and I remember got to the point where even if I would not buy peanut butter for myself, I would even I would even take my roommates peanut butters and then replace it the next day and so it was like this, it consumed, my life in ever since then. So I ended up gaining think 60 pounds in about four months. I stuck. I over about the next year. I was able to lose most of that. Just through thing, I did like
P90x and just ran a lot. I once I was able to run again but the binging never really went away a little bit. It would go away and they would come back and go and come back, it would always kind of resurfaced and so it calls me to consistently lose. Like the same 10 to 15 pounds a year after year. I would have belts. Where I thought I had figured it out. I thought I had found the solution and I would read all kinds of books. And every, every personal
development book, I read. It was always filtered through the lens of my eating disorder and it was always like, okay, well, this is a great business principle but how but I'm only thinking of it as how I can overcome this challenge. Because it always seemed to be. It wasn't just the binging itself. It was how much I thought about food. It was a 24/7 thing.
It was Is it mentally draining even the days that I did not binge eat it. Was it just, it took over every thought I had, and it was always the, it was always kind of like the wall that stood between myself and the goals that I was actually passionate about. I've been passionate about coaching others about building a business, about all kinds of things about pushing myself, physically. I don't don't really runny run anymore, but just enjoyed
lifting and things like that. But I think that I've woven into so many books regarding binge eating. I read a book called brain over binge that I guess is maybe like 45 years ago and thought it was really interesting and I understood it conceptually. But every time I tried to implement it, it seemed like there was a disconnect which drove my confidence down even more because I think that is the most frustrating. Of what I would now, label is
feeling addicted to food. Is that you, you know, so much about nutrition. Like I could I've helped other people. I have helped people lose plenty of weight before coaching people for free and things like that because I know what to do, but there's always that disconnect of knowing and doing and that part of you that feels like it just takes over in the moment, and I think that's the most frustrating aspect of it and then to kind of fast forward.
Word to you. And I working together recently. I think, what has transpired for me? Most clearly is that I know what? I know what works for me now, which is just abstinence from, basically most processed foods. It was always sugar or like, you know, ice cream cookies, pastries, those kinds of things. So, when I'm absent from that, and I embrace that lifestyle, I love how I feel. I have no issues. But I think I have gotten in my head too much and I've
questioned myself and thought. Well maybe there's a better way or maybe this person's. Right? And so like you and I have talked about a lot. There's this whole debate out there between moderation and abstinence. And certain people think the people that think they're addicted, aren't really addicted and they're fooling themselves and that, you know, they just need to learn how to moderate and then vice versa on the other
side. And so I think my desire not to put myself in one Camp has led me to not take a stand for myself, in any in any of those camps and always hopping between them which just like any, you know, shiny object syndrome not taking a stance has taken a stance and itself. And so now I feel I'm at this point, we're living a mostly ketogenic Lifestyle on Whole Foods is definitely the path.
I know that works for me. And so kind of planting my flag with that, not out of arrogance, but out of just knowing that this is what works best for me, and accepting that accepting that different things, work for different people. I'm feeling right now is the is the best path forward.
I love him and I feel like, you know, in working with you for the past few months, you've I mean, you've honestly made me a better Coach because it's brought back that perspective, then I probably just bought Default lost touch with because I mean, I struggle with eating disorders, Superbad, several years ago, but then I've pretty much recovered from that's for
the most part. I haven't really had any real apses, and after you go several years without really having that that, you know, intimate connection with a happening on a regular basis, you just lose, you forget about it, you forget how much of an impact it has on your day-to-day life and then in talking with you, like whenever you fall off or you do something that you beat yourself up about, we jump on a call me sir.
Talking and you describe it? I'm immediately brought back to what my day-to-day was like in like the World War 3. That was constantly. Raging in my own head, with regard to my battle with food and having that perspective, regained and just in more clarity makes me understand the importance of this with an even, you know greater degree of accuracy and just importance and significance. And I feel like something like people that have never Ever
dealt with an eating disorder. And there are many people out there that never have. I feel like humans are subject to some form of addiction and that form of addiction is vary greatly between different humans. But I feel like with regard to food addiction, if you never experienced it, it's hard to relate to people that are going through it, but it's a whole nother, kind of Beast because
you got to have food to live. You can't just abstain from food, so you have to be Really specific on the types of food, the timing of the food, the the environment in which you eat the food. Like, there's so many factors at play that you have to get figured out because you gotta have it. And it's been interesting for me. It's been very enlightening and lightning to me to see you go through these different chapters and figure out what your body and mind respond best to.
Yeah. Yeah. I know I I totally agree with what you said about about kind of once you're out of that mindset and your kind of past it, you kind of forget what it's like. And because I've been in that position myself and for one reason or another I think my desire to coach other people around this eventually. Kind of got me in my own head about it and I thought well I need to be able to, I need to be able to relate to all kinds of people. So I know a ketogenic lifestyle works for me.
I know, cutting out processed foods and creating that clear. Divide works for me, but maybe I need to get my head back in that space of where I was at my worst so that I can relate and remember how it actually felt which doesn't make any sense saying it out loud. But in the moment, when you're in your head about things and you start to question, I think that is it feels like you're two different people and I think that's the that's the kicker to it.
Is making it the gold to get back to where you're just of one mind. And I found that for me that it's very easy to draw that. I know people say that you you have to eat food. And so, you know, food addiction is tough, because of that, and I can understand that. But I also feel that for me, if there's ever since I did, I did like a 30-day reset years ago, where I cut out all processed foods like grains and things like that. And I remember the first time I did that, I was able to very
clearly see. There's such a difference in the way, like real food hits your brain versus, you know, treats or sweets, however, whatever you want to call it. And so I think seeing that divide, made it very easy for me to distinguish between those two things. But again, it's just that getting back. That place of kind of getting out of my own head and committing to coming to action versus trying to commit to like the perfect technique and like the perfect thought process.
I think there's a because there's a lot of approaches out there that are very mind based and I understand it and they maybe they work for some people like you said, there's different people dealt with different levels of this, I think. But I think for our someone like myself, who tends to very easily over think things, Things. The less thinking that's involved the better. Yeah, I think I think that is a huge realization because well actually let's back up.
I want to just paint the pitch for people that may not be able to relate as to what this even looks like because they may be hearing this in like what the heck is a food addiction in the first place? So what is in a disordered eating? If they have never dealt with a just don't comprehend, can't wrap their head around and they I can't really expect them to with us.
You know, laying down a few sentences to describe it, but I feel like, just for the for illustrative purposes alone, like, what for you personally is gnawing in your mind when you're
going through. Like, when you're, when you wake up in the middle of night and you're like in the in the kitchen, you get the frigerator door, open the pantry door open, you're looking at all the options, you got a jar of peanut butter in your hand, like what are the thoughts going on in your mind right now as to whether or not you should open that up and dive in. Yeah, that's a that's a great.
Question. So for me, personally, the first I would preface this by saying, that all of everything that I would stay can be explained in a scientific explanation of what parts of your brain are lit up and, you know, your Primal brain versus your conscious brain and people can explain this very well, but in the moment, even though, you know those things there's such a, it feels like there's such a strong compulsion
to eat. And not just eat, but eat large, quantities of, usually things that are high in sugar and fat. So, like ice cream, it feels like an overwhelming urge to the point, where, like your conscious rational thoughts are kind of turned down like you, you know, that what you're doing is not something that you want to do, but at the same time, you you feel like you need to do it. And you can't.
And that moment. See, a reason not to continue to like, you know, you're going to feel awful after, you know, that you'd be so much happier if you just didn't follow through, but it's such a rushed and like, I don't like to use the word numbing, but it's very overtaking, very consuming that it feels like it's a need in that moment to the point where Even though there's a part of you that feels like this is ruining your entire life, it ruining your focus and, you
know, that if you were to stop giving into these urges that you're having that they eventually would go away and, you know, all these things. But in that moment, it feels so over consuming and that the supernormal pleasure of that food. It Trump's any reasoning that you're that you have in your mind because you're just not
able to think clearly. And I think the other side of that is that There's a difference between eating, you know, three or four pints of ice cream and eating two, scoops of ice cream and the way that hits your brain and I think that that's where a lot of people. I think maybe don't realize that when you're using food as a drug like that you're using it in much larger quantities. Just like, you know, a glass of wine is not going to hit your brain.
The same as five or six glasses of wine, you know, that are consumed within 30 minutes. And so I think once somebody Is at a point where they've used food as a drug to try to have it in moderation, it's almost just like a tease for what you really want, which is to what I've heard. Someone say, I feel it's pretty accurate as to quote unquote, get high on food, and so in the moment, that's what it feels
like. It feels like it's just an overwhelming all-consuming desire, that goes against everything, pretty much every value that you stand for as a person. But yet at the same time, there's a part of you that enjoys it to a point where it, it Supersedes any other rational desire. I'm trying to like think of a good analogy as weird as we're talking here in. The only thing that comes to mind is, you know, similar to how we need food.
We are biologically, you know, evolved to, to want to procreate have sex and procreate. And I feel like this is similar to, you know, having like an affair. Because, you know, every reasonable part of your brain is telling you that this is not a wise move. This affair is not a good thing. I should be faithful, but in the moment like if both members are around, it's going to be very hard. Like that's like a kin to you being right there in the refrigerator door with his food
in your hand. Like what are you gonna do? Like, it's very hard to say. No at that point. So like you need to create these boundaries long before you ever even get to that point. Absolutely. Yep. That's that's 100%. It's it feels like you're feels like you're having an affair with the with the real version of yourself and it's like You your you are of two minds and these two minds compete for your interests. I heard, I know we talked about Jordan Pederson a little bit lately.
I know he's described addiction as as an entire personality because that's, that's really what it is. It's not in some ways, it's an extremely bad habit, but the actual the actual consumption of the food is the strongest part of the habit. But then every hour leading up to that consumption from Second, I wake up in the morning and just the small idea in my head of well, maybe this evening, we'll drive to the store and have something but then there's
the counter. Thought of no, I don't want to do that. Even those thoughts, even that debate in your brain becomes ingrained as part of the whole addiction, whereas like you become addicted to the thoughts that lead to the consumption. Even if that thought is, I'm not going to have this today. Eventually that thought of I'm not going to do this today, becomes Paired with doing it because you've broken it so many times and it eventually, it just
takes over your entire life. Whereas everything you're doing, just like I've heard, it described in alcohol addiction as well. Everything you're doing is centered around, getting that food at some point. If you're with other people, you're thinking about, what how am I going to Get whatever substance, it is, whatever food it is. After I leave this group of people, or after I get off work, or after I do this, everything is. It's like, your aim is getting
that substance. Yeah, that's a really good point because I don't feel. I feel like people that have no perception of this, don't recognize the the length and the amount of time spent fixating on the food or whatever the addiction, maybe. Because like when I rewind back to when I was struggling with it, I mean, I would spend literally all day thinking about a specific meal that I was going to have at some point far into the future.
And when you're, when you're in that state, you it's impossible. I mean, by definition, you are not being present and because of that, your quality of life in the moment is diminished your relationships suffer. You just have like this, waxy, glossed over look and nothing is as pure and pristine as it should be because you are living for.
A moment in the future that you inherently know, is not going to be fulfilling in any true sense of the word, it's going to be a high but not a like a true legitimate fulfilled high and you know that you're going to beat yourself up for it afterwards yet you do it. Anyways and that is this really strange negative feedback loop that drives. So much of our Behavior but is so hard to fix and correct course on 100%. Yeah.
That fixation. And then the thing is, is that I don't like to pretend that it's not in any way pleasurable because it is pleasurable, but the it's because, you know, these Foods, obviously, they're not things that are found in nature and they're in concentrations that aren't found
in nature. So they stimulate our brain's reward system at a very high level but it's it's the consequences that are the problem and when you're in the moment of thinking about the pleasure of that food, even if you don't want to think about, About it when that thought, enters your head. There's that dopamine Rush of just the anticipation of getting that and that in itself is almost at. It's just as strong as the pleasure of actually eating the food itself into that dopamine
hits. As soon as you that thought even enters your mind and that it feels like there's a point where that side of you kind of takes over and you get so tired of fighting it that you eventually, just let it win. And so, I think that's where it gets. It's tough to explain to somebody who has never experienced it. I know people have there's another side of it. Where people have, I know been obsessed with eating extremely healthy foods and, you know, they have foods that are good or bad.
And that's something that when somebody tells them, hey, like, you're allowed to have Snickers bar, and it's not going to blow your calories, maybe that person feels free because now they can have those foods that they thought they couldn't have, whereas someone who struggles with binge eating at least to the degree that I have. That.
I know that, you know, I could fit into my macros so to speak, but to do that would would be like kind of like taking the tiger out of the cage so to speak. Yeah, it's a Once you unleash the Cracking. So to speak, you, you definitely like all holder. But I mean, you lose complete and utter control. Like everything is just floodgates are open. I mean, they're, it's weird because the and a lot of people are like, you know what, you get your ketones dialed in.
You get your hormones regulated with the properly, and I'm going to implement a ketogenic diet and then your hunger hormones. Tell you when to stop eating and that just oftentimes, is not the case if you have disordered eating because there's like a whole nother You know, shift that occurs psychologically and they're literally is seemingly no release of that. You know, leptin, ghrelin, everything's just out of whack
and you can eat at nauseam. I mean, just Mainline foods that seems just in human to be able to consume amounts in, but you're able to do it. And it's it's weird because then you start to almost crave that feeling of just over consumption and fullness. And that's obviously not a, you know, performance and I mean that That inhibits performance
quite profoundly. So you don't really want that from optimization standpoint but for whatever reason you start to Crave that just feeling of just over over consumption which is a weird sensation in itself and then the moment you you know that you're teetering on the edge and then you give in and you over consume, it takes a massive hit on your self confidence because then you feel like you're too weak like how we can my I can't even control the food that I My own mouth.
Like I start having these conversations with myself and then when you have that lack of confidence in who you are, it becomes exponentially easier to fail and falter a second, third, fourth time. And then it just becomes this continuously compounding negative feedback loop. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's spot-on because you know, there's definitely been times where I know I'll say this.
I know for a lot of people that Get into binge, eating it stems from maybe there had really restrictive diet at some point, and they weren't eating enough calories, and so, if you're not eating enough calories, it's going to be way easier to binge. And then a lot of those people they find they start eating foods. That actually fill them up, you know, like steak and things like that. And that desire to bend it kind of goes away because they're actually getting enough nutrients.
Whereas, for me, I could eat, you know, I could eat a 16 ounce Ribeye and still have that desire. You, it's not always the desire to binge, but just the desire to eat some hyper palatable food, like some ice cream or you know, something high in sugar, fat and salt after that. Even if it's key to ice cream, you know, it still hits my brain
the same way. So I could still have that same desire regardless of how much I've eaten because it's, it's not about Hunger, it's about that reward in that that overwhelming, pleasure, that that high of the food that I'm kind of seeking out. Out.
Yeah it's interesting man. I feel like you know if somebody is is chronically under eating and they're struggling with disordered eating, I feel like you know first and foremost they got a intake enough calories so that they can at least meet their you know mineral and nutrient needs. That's going to help immensely. You know that. That's step one for you by this disorder having disordered eating as a result of chronically under eating.
So they got to get that in check first if they're eating adequate amount of food and nutrients and Still having the disordered eating, then it becomes much more of a you're able to kind of like know that it's not a physiological issues so much. It is a psychological issue and then we can kind of address it in a much different manner. Yep. 1000% the I think the difference that I've found is that a lot of people talk about restriction with all you need to allow these Foods.
That's why you're binging on them because you're restricting them from yourself. But I think that for me, when when you tell somebody who feels truly addicted to food and by the way, I don't whatever labels people want to use is fine, but I just, I think the subjective experience is what's most important. Like you can Me what you want to call it? Whether you think food addiction
is real thing or not? And whether someone says it, but I know what I've experienced and I know what other people have experienced as well. And I know even known as much as I do just to still have that subjective experience. Ultimately is what I think is most important, but if someone the idea for me of never having those hyper palatable Foods again, is extremely freeing on one hand. Like there's a part of me that there's a part of me that does
you know kind of feel. Like I'm going to be can have some cravings for a little while, but the idea of never having to even think about them again that feels so freeing whereas for someone who maybe just I think is dealing with overeating or maybe you know eating too strict maybe like super low fat and I don't know just promoting salads every meal or something like that maybe that feels restricting to them but I think one person's restriction is another person's
Freedom. Yeah I think perception. I mean your perception Your reality. So I mean, a lot of these what works really well, for one may not be nearly as applicable to another, so having the self-awareness really comes into play here because you have to know who you are, what you stand for in the fact that I mean for you personally the fact you're also wanting to identify as someone who is a you know, expert in Nutrition.
A coach, a trainer that adds a whole nother dimension of complexity to it because not only do you address things and through the Lens of what do I need to do? What's best for me but you're also having the weights of how do I need to, you know, illustrate myself in a way that's going to be best for others? And that's that just adds a whole nother dimension of like said complexity to the equation here.
Yeah, it high. I know we talked about this but it's definitely definitely gets me in my own head about things and I you know, I one day I'm hearing somebody talking about food addiction and you know, following a Whole Foods based lifestyle and just completely abstaining from those. Foods and, you know, feeling great doing that.
And then the next day, I hear somebody else talking about well, food addiction is not a real thing and people think they're just addicted but they really just have to do this. You just have to, you know, not listen to their urges and or do this for that and use this mental technique and and then I think, well maybe I'm not doing the right thing. So maybe I need to try this and maybe this is the real way and
this work for this person. So you know, if I have a future client or something that doesn't resonate with the abstinence, Idea, well, maybe they need to, to do this. But I found that if you know these for me, I think it's just what's most important is to find is the process of finding what does work for you. You know, I'm not saying by any means, what works for me is going to work for everybody, but I do think that I think it's worth it least.
I think there's a good foundation to be had of trying to go for a period without those Foods just too. the just to kind of know that you don't need them and I think that's really kind of the one of the biggest light bulb moments I've had since we've been working together is just the idea of the opposite of an addiction is not too, is not even not giving into that
addiction. But I think it's being apathetic about it to the point where you don't you no longer care about those Foods as much so you're not placing such a high emphasis on them because I think to someone I read this in a in a book while back and they said to some to an addicted mine. Like the Holy Grail is moderation because you think well I just To be able to eat these foods.
But not have the consequences of them, but at the same time if you're self-aware enough to realize that that's the fact that moderation is such a high priority for you is that that's very different from someone who is moderating like you know, someone who's moderating, they're not thinking about, oh I'm trying to moderate it's just they could take it or leave it. If you told someone that, you know, has no issues with eating, you know, ice cream or cake, or cookies that They can never have
it again. They probably be kind of down about it, but they, I don't think they would. I don't know. It probably wouldn't affect them as much as somebody who has an addiction to those things and feels like, you know, that's there in one sense that that's everything that they're striving for. It's kind of like just it's aiming at a very superficial Target that really shouldn't be given that much attention 100%
man. I feel like, I feel like there's a lot of different ways we could take this but I feel like They're the human mind is not respond. Well in the context of feeling deprived or of sacrificing something like we don't like to give things up.
We like to have our cake and eat it too so to speak and when we realized that if we try to overcome an addiction by simply removing it and not replacing it, then we're going to constantly feel like we're sacrificing and that we're deprived and that Instant nagging feeling is going to have us Fester on the thoughts, that thing that we feel deprived of. And that just going to result in US binging on whatever that thing is and I'm proud of change.
I mean, I don't pretend to be an expert in this by any means. But this is what I've noticed through my own personal Journey. But I feel like for me, what's been incredibly impactful is recognizing that by removing the IE, you know, carbs heavily processed foods, I'm not really sacrificing anything of value because the importance and significance of those isn't
really even that great. I mean, if I was to think as a performance athlete, for instance, that my performance which is the, you know, highest goal is going to be hindered by not having carbohydrates yet. I'm struggling with this addiction to carbohydrates. That would be a very, you know, depressing thought that would be a very Be discouraging realization. But once I came to the conclusion that hey, look, I cannot have carbohydrates processed foods and that's not going to result in a net
negative to my performance. That was very liberating because then I was able to double down on the things that I felt confident with improve my overall performance. And because I was able to double that on those, I no longer felt like I was sacrificing or being deprived.
I appreciated the confidence gained in knowing that I was only going to get Closer to my performance goals by removing that addiction, that outweighed, the temporary thought of feeling like I was sacrificing something, does that make sense? That makes total sense and that is spot on this. I think it's the best way to say it is that you know, you're you're replacing it with something else because it's keep referencing Jordan Pederson, of course.
But you know he talks about aiming up and when you're addicted, your your aim is. Your aim is at not doing something, your aim is at and I feel like when anytime you aim at not doing something, you just focus on doing that thing more, which drives you deeper into it and you don't know why you keep going into it. When the only thing you're trying to do is not do it, but when you completely change a lifestyle, it's like putting on an entirely new lens.
It's almost like I remember hearing a podcast about A veteran Who Lost His sight set on I-80 and, you know, had to have surgery and almost lost his life and he no longer could see after that, you know. I don't think I'm sure I can't even imagine how difficult that is. But at the same time, I remember thinking that, you know, his whole perspective was not thinking about what he couldn't see. Now, his whole perspective was building a new life with what with his new state.
And make an impact in that way. And I think that focusing on the impact that you can make the genuine, the meaningful things in, even one of those genuine meaningful things being eating food. That satisfies you can actually, makes you feel good. You know, breaking bread with friends, the things that you look back on.
And you remember that, you're glad that you did just putting more of a focus on those things and thinking about how Eating in that way is going to support you even, you know, putting on muscle in the gym or the things that like I actually care about the things that I truly am passionate about switching that focus is just, it's so much easier and it's so much more enjoyable to embrace something new than to try to constantly push away something that you hate. 100% completely agree.
And it's funny because there is again, there's a lot of different, a lot of different directions. We could take it, but I feel like on that. Last point you made the like, for me, personally, there's one instance, way back when I was really deep into struggling,
with these eating disorders. And I think I may have talked about this on the podcast prior, but I was I was going through this time, I was just fixating on food and I got news that My one of my family members was in the hospital and I thought about that for a moment, but then my thoughts immediately went back to thinking about the next meal and that was like, such an aha moment for me because I realized that the true quality of my life
in our relationships is being hindered in a very negative way because of something that is so incredibly unimportant in the grand scheme of things and that having the negative psychological effect did. Coupled with the fact that it was having physical, you know, detriment from a physical standpoint, it made it that much easier to get excited about the
benefit gained. And basically what I was replacing that with on a positive end of the spectrum with regard to eating the whole quality foods that I knew were adding value, like people that don't have these addictions, they don't have to worry about moderation. They're able to moderate and not be an issue. They may be eating some you know, birthday cake.
I'm sure in the, in the depths of their soul, they don't honestly think that that birthday cake is healthy and adding any inherent benefit to their overall health and well-being. Whereas with me, it's like now that I'm not even having that as an option. 99% of the things that I'm actually consuming are actually improving my health and performance and well-being. And that is an exciting
realization. And I know that my quality of relationships has improved because I don't have to think about the superficial stuff that doesn't matter. And when you have that, Light bulb, click. It's like how it's hard to rewind and go back to what you used to thing, because the overwhelming power of how you think. Now, just is so much more sustainable and you feel right about like you don't ever have
to have that. That lack of self-confidence because you deep down in your soul, know that what you're doing is better for not only yourself physically and mentally but also for the relationships in your life in the people that matter. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I think it's it's just like you said, it's, it's kind of its kind of creating a new
normal for yourself. It's like your What was once your ceiling becomes your new floor and you you're able to actually be yourself and kind of completely cut out that side of you that you that really is just so superficially focused and I think once that side is out you you're able to just you're able to be present more. You're able to like you said, even if you're out of place or some kind of event where there's cake or something and you know rather than fixating.
No, no, I can't. That cake this the whole time you know, you're you're just focused on how much more present you can be. And you know, when I think back there's never been a point in my life where I've thought, man, that, that would have been so much more enjoyable. If I, you know, I'd had, you know, a few more slices of cake, or like I just eat more, you know, like it would have been. That's, that's, that's never happened. It's usually like, man, I feel awful this morning.
I wish I had knows. You know, eat And all that stuff last night. And you know now my next day is affected because of how I ate yesterday. And, you know, it's like the the quote I say, it's like you you hunger for what you feed on and it's like if you are constantly feeding on those things, and that's exactly what it is. It's like if I don't feel them at all, I don't want them anymore and I'm able to replace them so much easier. More easily versus, you know, if I was to go to somewhere and
have a The cake. I'd be probably fine but I put that. You know how that is Kate. Put it down but then the next day those thoughts would be
coming back again. It would feel like that other side of me was like that fuse was lit essentially and it would only be a matter of time before there was like I don't know, I wasn't paying attention or I know for me A lot of times where I have binge eating or eating things just unconsciously, it's always when I'm doing something else like ironically it's when I'm listening to a podcast or something like that because it becomes such an automatic response that the second you are
not paying 100% attention to it. You just start kind of going at it and it's almost like you're checked out and almost as automatic as brushing your teeth or something like that. Hmm, definitely. And I Like, in order, I feel like you need to have like everybody needs to have certain non-negotiables in life. And what those non-negotiables are is going to be very different depending on the individual. And I mean to, for me, to reference Jordan Pederson, I'll just go along with your Trend
here. He talks a lot about Order and Chaos and how change happens on The Fringe and Humanity has constantly trying to reach this equilibrium between Order and Chaos. Chaos. You know, for me the it's important to have these non-negotiables within the context of what that Order and Chaos presents itself as so like using this, this conversation is as an example. You know, a non-negotiable for me would be processed carbohydrates.
That I know are not adding any inherent benefit to my life or the life of those around me. So I can, I can easily have that. Is non-negotiable, I don't need it. Now, does that mean that I need to be? Super strict and Counting every single macro all the time from good clean, quality whole sources. No, and here's here's how you here's how I can can justify and make that entire process more
sustainable. Because if it's if it's not sustainable than its you're going to be much more app to go off the rails and binge and Purge, and it just becomes a negative feedback loop again. But if you make it sustainable, then it then you're able to obviously sustain it and that compounding effect of sustaining something positive Year after year after year is where that's where, that's where the magic
quote unquote is made. And in this realm, you know, order would be defined as tracking everything to the T and having all your Macros dialed in knowing your calorie counts, knowing the macro ratios etc. Etc, etc. Chaos would be defined as not tracking it all going through life, very willy-nilly with your food and just eating as however,
you see fit. And for me, it's like, well, wait a minute here, if I really want to make this sustainable, I've got to kind of find that good equilibrium point and go through these various phases, depending on where my, where my mind is that at the moment, what my goals are at the moment and for me as a bodybuilder, even if I wasn't stepping on stage as a bodybuilder, I think having a determined building and cutting phase is key from a psychological standpoint because
it allows me to have this period of time where I can be incredibly ordered and strict and really kind of operate on The Fringe and optimizing an extreme level 4. One thing but then it's it's juxtaposed against this chaos.
Not miss a chaos, but you get the concept in which I'm not tracking nears diligently, I'm able to be more loose and more relaxed still eating the good quality foods at all fall within the Realms of what I consider, you know, okay, and not a non-negotiable but having that that difference, that equilibrium point that Yin and the Yang makes this entire Journey, much more sustainable, much more enjoyable and it allows me to go through life without feeling like I'm
sacrificing anything. That is beautifully. Put, I love a lot of the ordering chaos analogy because I think it's also kind of like that. You know, I know you've talked about this before but the discipline equals freedom and kind of thing where it's, you know, you create you create rules in order to create more
freedom, you know. It's like there's a reason we have laws is reason like we have you know, people protecting those laws is so that we can feel a sense of safety and not have to worry about certain things. Evan, but if we didn't have those laws, we wouldn't have that freedom. And so, I think what? I one of the kind of the biggest epiphanies I've found for myself. Is that for some people?
I there's a lot of push out there right now about like no rules like, no food roles and you know, nothing is good or bad and you know, maybe from a moral level, of course it's not you're not a bad person for eating any certain food, but I think that
rules can be very freeing for certain people. well, and I think rather than thinking that something is wrong with you for creating these rules for yourself, if you feel free with them and you know, maybe there is maybe there is some magical technique where you wouldn't have to have those rules, but I think the even the process of Face of fighting those battles to try to find something. When you already know that something would be very freeing for you.
It kind of just kind of saying that out loud. It almost makes you think well, you know I don't I don't want to fight a battle that I don't need to fight because there are plenty of battles that are worth fighting that I could be putting my attention to right now. If I was to just like you said,
put that one foot in order. And because that one footed is an order of be able to Experience and face the chaos of things that are worth dealing with at a much higher level or said another way, like, you know, getting rid of the experience to embrace the meaning of things, 100% man, in very well, put I feel like the people that are advocating for this total lack of rules with regard to nutrition. But I mean, all everything that we've said in this podcast can
be an analogy for life. So I mean, we gotta take it with what what? What? But I feel like the people saying those things have come from a place on the complete opposite, end of the spectrum and the Pendulum is in the process of swinging to the other end of the spectrum. And those are the types of people that you see change course like in 180 degree of shift on a pretty regularly occurring basis.
And in my opinion, I look at that and I'm not really impressed by it, like the whole grass is greener. On the other side, the shiny object syndrome like those are people. I mean You look just the the keto space alone, you see a lot of people totally changing their tune on third on certain things that they've been, you know, planting their flag in the ground on in the past and that's not to say, you shouldn't experiment. I'm very much so, you know, experiment try different things.
See what works for you. I'm all for it, but to see people totally change their stance on, you know, conflicting, moral viewpoints or whatever that maybe it's like, I
feel like that's more. So, Is the pendulum swing in the opposite direction and they don't really have a grasp on what is right for them yet and that's why I take a lot of pride in the fact that you know, I've been following this exact protocol now with changes, you know tweaks and manipulations with what I'm trying to do. But like as an overarching theme, I've been following the exact same protocol now for the past five or six years and it's totally sustainable for me.
Again, this is all individualized, but the fact that it's worked so well for me, leads me to believe Leave that. It could very well likely work well for others. And I'm just trying to spread that message and share with what
I've done. Because if anybody has gone through the eating disorder that I've gone through and this is works well for me, it stands to reason that it can very well work well for them, and I feel like that's what my underlying motivation is behind sharing this message, but whenever I'm looking for anybody in life, you know, whenever I'm seeing something that I want to achieve, you don't want to ask people that aren't living what you're wanting to do, like you.
I wouldn't ask a bum on the side of the street, how to become a multi-millionaire businessman. Like you probably wouldn't get the best answers. You know, you want to get advice and wisdom from people that are doing what you aspire to be doing. Not people that have no context or perception of what it is that you're wanting to do. And, you know, that's going to be different for different people depending on what their goals and desires life are.
But I'm proud to say that. I've I've seen so much success doing this, the way I've done it and I'm proud and happy to share. That message and I would just encourage anybody listening to to do the same, whether it's my protocol or anybody else's particle like figure out who's doing something that you aspire to do and has successfully done it for years on end only getting better with each year that passes and take notes from them. And that is spot on it.
And that's one of the reasons that I reached out to you is it wasn't because I thought you had you know the magic trick of Eating Disorders but the way that you know I can just very genuinely, tell that everything you say is extremely honest and the things that you stand for the values that you have, the goals that you've achieved and the things that you're working towards like that, just that whole lifestyle. There's something that I really resonated with.
It wasn't just one nutrition protocol. Is it was the person that you are and that you the way that you ate, you know, was a was a part of that life, but it wasn't. It wasn't the whole thing and it wasn't a trend. It wasn't a fad, it was something that was authentically part of you as a person. And that is what resonated and I think especially with guys because I think a lot of guys don't talk about this very openly, I think it's very Very female heavy industry as far as
eating disorders. Go. And I don't think it's that guys, don't deal with it. I just think maybe they don't use the same language and speaking about it, but I know for me, it just you as a person and just like you said, if you know, you want to listen to somebody that actually has success in the areas that you're after or because that speaks so much more than somebody who has the head knowledge to tell you what to do.
You but isn't actually living it themselves hasn't actually been through it themselves so I, yeah, I totally agree. I think that's just, that's huge man. Just like the setting. The example is, at least for me resonates more than anything else. Total agreement, I appreciate you noticing that in me.
I feel like, you know, being honest is so incredibly important and we live in this weird time in which it's so easy to be dishonest, it's so easy to put on On a mask and masquerade around, is this person that you're not and it's compelling to do. So, like if you get this high like like you do with in a jar of peanut butter, you get this High by showcasing yourself as someone that you are not.
But some of that, you know, the majority would aspire to be or look up to especially in the fitness industry. Like it's kind of disgusting and it's unfortunate So I've always just fought like that like I feel like the whole fake it till
you make it phenomenon. Disgust me like I just I want to be the best person I could be in the most transparent way possible and I want to see success doing that because I feel like you can definitely see success doing that and then the success that you do see is a much more native organic true success and you never have to wear a mask.
I mean, if to me a, a great horror in life, a great fear would be To build up some degree of success under a lie and then have to constantly nurture that lie, that would be just the epitome of failure in my mind. No matter how much money is in the bank account that to me would be failure. So I want to be doing the exact opposite that in any degree of success eyes. See whether that be from a monetary standpoint, from a relationship standpoint from a
whatever standpoint. I want it to be made being 100% completely authentic. Who I am as a person and know that the people that I interact with know that about me with absolute certainty. I love that. It's it's kind of odd that I feel like, you know, I don't think everybody's sad obviously but it's just I feel like we live in a time right now where Being honest stands out so much. And that's one of the things just your podcast and everything
you stand for. And the people that I listened to or the people that are very honest about things and they
don't sugarcoat it good or bad. And I think that's that's just as important whether it's like with an eating disorder or with whatever experience it is, I think there's just there's something there's when you hear truth you know it it's almost like it's an intuitive thing and almost in the same way that I would say that, at least for me when I have found, what does work for me with with binge eating and eating disorders and
things like that? Is you almost intuitively Know It with in the first five seconds of thinking about it. Just like when you hear something that's truthful, you know, it pretty quickly and it really it, resonates at a deeper level hits. It's in a more genuine way. Yeah, and I feel like there's a certain power that comes with, you know. Acting that truth out into the world because we live in a world in which everybody has so much
access to one another. So it's like it's like the the need to connect with one another becomes, much more Amplified and that that has resulted in both positives and negatives. But I feel like it's no longer enough from a self development standpoint. I'm sure there is some instances where it has been enough, but I feel like on a whole it's no longer sufficient to just be, you know, honest with yourself. I feel like your ability to reach the other side and make
more progress. In life is Amplified. If you're able to not only have that Honesty with yourself but then to have that honesty and share it with others because you're able to just expedite your own personal growth. I mean, again going back to Jordan Peterson. He was talking about, Carl Jung and how his belief in people manifest themselves in the most positive way.
To society as a whole is to have complete Nutter self-awareness and to know the darkness that you're capable of in order to appreciate and understand and comprehend the positive in the light that you're capable of until you know, and are familiar with both ends of that Spectrum. You can't possibly be the best person that you can be for yourself and for others, and I feel like, if you have this darkness in you, but then you're honest about it and not necessarily acting upon it.
But at least honest about it to the world like me. being open about the fact that I struggle with eating disorders, or me being open to the fact that anything that I struggle with in life and and showcasing that to my audience, my followers, My subscribers, whatever my listeners, my ability to impact them in a positive manner, with light also becomes much more Amplified I'm and yeah so so well put I think the yeah there's I don't think you can truly have full self awareness
without other people being involved in its why. Again like I love working together as just because it's almost like I'm on the field and you're in the Press Box. You know, you can see things that I can't and you have experiences that and in this is part of what I need to.
Continually work to get better at is kind of knowing when to stop the thoughts of my own head or when to just turn them off and just trust the process and know that, you know, sometimes it's easier to act yourself into thinking instead of trying to think yourself into acting. And yeah, I'll just the human connection aspect in any. Any aspect of my life has always
been. It's always been probably the most valued thing I've had It is community and I think even like this, these passed this past year where I haven't had as much face-to-face, interaction with people, it's definitely definitely noticed that difference.
And just when you don't have something at, you really realize how much you need it and how much you appreciate it and there's just something that even online you can't get the same as that face-to-face connection where you can grow personally by being around other people. People and help those people grow by being around them, totally, man. That's why I was so stoked to get you on the podcast.
Because even though it's just you and me talking here, we're not really getting any feedback from anybody listening. The fact that, you know, that what you've said is now in the ears of so many people that for whatever reason can be very
liberating. And I feel like, you know, having that sense of community as Amplified, knowing that the thoughts that are going through your head, the struggles that you're dealing with on a regular basis, other people that are going through, it can relate with them, One.
But then also that people that are not in struggling with that can kind of, you know, subconsciously hold you accountable in your own mind simply because you know, that other people know and even if they never reach out and talk to you just simply knowing that other people have heard the words that you said today think that could be very, very empowering for you. And not you know going off
course in the future. Yeah, yeah, I think that accountability is huge and I like to be open about these things and not at all for, you know, trying to get any kind of sympathy or anything like that. I think I think there's like, you were to talk about the pendulum earlier. I think there's that pendulum of swinging all the way to where it's like, for people. Like to be vulnerable, just to maybe Garner attention. And that is definitely not my intent whatsoever, but it's just simply too.
You know hopefully resonate with other guys out there especially that maybe have dealt with this and I never take a stance of being powerless or of being the victim or anything like that. I think we all have. We all have our own demons and just like you were talking about.
We all have our own dark sides that we have to deal with and but we do have the power to deal with them and to take that responsibility and I think for me the act of taking responsibility in that area and owning up to it is it's a and for being able to take responsibility in any other area, because I think the You take your, your greatest struggle and making your greatest Victory.
I think that really shines a light on all the other areas that maybe you didn't have confidence in before, and it kind of helps bolster that confidence for those bigger things, 100%, man, any less than that, you learn with any aspect of your life, whether it's, you know, eating or training or business, career relationships, they all, they all build the whole and the whole being you as a person.
So, anything that you I'll go with her succeed in in this is going to have a, you know, corresponding impact on every other aspect of your life. So I'm excited to be working with you, man. I'm excited. I'm proud to be working with you. I'm honored to have you on the podcast and have a friendship with you, man, because you make me a better person. And I'm I appreciate. I appreciate what you brought
into my life as well. I really appreciate it, Robert and it's been, it's definitely an honor to be on this podcast and it's an honor to work with you. And like I said, there's there's something Beyond just a coaching relationship that I just I have so much respect for you and the things that you stand for and just hearing the way that you talk to other people and the way that you impact other people.
I think I've heard it said that the impact you have on other people is typically the way they talk about you when you're not in the Room. And it's just, it's very cool to hear the other things that people say about you, the way that you've impacted them, you know, just that you're the same person on camera, so to speak and off camera. And so, and I can attest to that even through our current relationship so far. So I really appreciate it.
I appreciate the example that you set for so many people. Well, thanks a million man. That that definitely don't do anything that I do to, you know, gain any notoriety by any means. But it means the world to me to know that. What? I'm spending my life doing, is having a positive impact and just, to be able to have that communication with you and others.
It makes me feel very, very fortunate, very blessed, and I'm just very appreciative to, to you, for even want to jump on the pond gas for anybody listening to the podcast right now, for anybody. That's you know, tuned in any point in their life, anybody that's about a break. Anyway, that's than anything. I mean, just simply giving me the time of day to listen to what I have to say. That means more than than any monetary exchange by any stretch
of the imagination. So, You for jumping on the podcast and thank you for everyone listening. I appreciate you freaking, love you. Where can people go to find out more about you, man? I did not ask that. I'm so kind of an all the social media platforms but my Instagram is Seth a Barner. It's be ar and ER I didn't even get a chance to shout out to the keto bricks because that's been a huge. It's like a daily, it's my daily meal. Neil the first meal of the day every day and I freaking love
those things. It's it's it fills a need that. It just makes, I'm not make things a lot easier and I know you didn't like, tell me to say anything about them, but it's just as we worked for the coach relationship so much, I forget to shout out to the even bigger. Bigger Enterprise you have going on. So I appreciate that as well. Yeah, I appreciate that. I have actually got it's funny. You started off this whole discussion.
About, we're still recording, by the way, I've got about peanut butter because I feel like, you know, if there's a gateway drug to eating disorders, it's peanut butter. I feel like everybody starts off a peanut, but I've got a horror stories and just going through a whole tub of Jiffy, peanut butter. And another, one of my clients has struggled with eating disorders and she would just down the nut Butters where there was peanut butter, the almond
butter whatever. But she's hurting the bricks and for whatever reason that was able to scratch that craving for the nut butter. But Not cause her to totally go off course, and and eats the nut Butters, you know, in excess. Yeah, that's, that's the crazy thing. And I think that's what's so amazing to me about them is and maybe it's just because of the high fats and how filling they are, but I don't they don't trigger cravings for Me.
Maybe it's like the, the salt added to it to, I don't know. But yeah, it's just it's very, very satisfying. Whereas like, most processed foods are to do treats so to speak there. There's like Zero nutrition in them and so do you? There's no satiety Factor whatsoever. So, yeah, I'm thankful. I can eat the peanut butter brick. Well, I've got a couple new flavors in the works. I'm going to send you one, man. Gets get some, get some feedback from you all about that, how about that?
Will say that one more time, what was the Instagram? I want to make sure I get that right. Yeah, it's Seth a Barner. There's no no dashes. Anything like that. Perfect, perfect. I'll certainly link it to that and I just want to finish this off with one more. You know token of my appreciation man I think for taking the time to jump on here and I enjoy working with you if there's everything I do for you man, just let me know. I really appreciate Robin.
My pleasure 1000%, take care, brother. All right. Later.