Well hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto savage.com and today I've got special guest Rob Goodwin back on the line. I had Rob on the podcast way back in 20/17/2018. We had a great conversation then. He is also a coach in the Keto Carnivore space and we talked about this quite a bit in the podcast. But for whatever reason people in the community like to pit coaches against one another, whereas and at the end of the day we have a lot more common ground than not.
So we wanted to just bring all that to light, talk about some of our similarities, talk about some of our difference, do so in a respectful manner and just appreciate the company and the expertise of one another. So I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. We talked about training, we talked about nutrition, we talked about protein, fats, carbohydrates, we talked about a little bit of everything. So again, I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. Always get something good out of it.
Talking to Rob, I have no doubt that you will as well. So without further delay, sit back, relax, enjoy the podcast with Rob Goodwin and we are live. Rob, how are you man? I am awesome, brother. It is so great to talk to you again. It's been way too. Long. It has. It has. We did the first podcast. I think we decided it was like early 2018 or something like that and we've corresponded a
bit on e-mail since then. But honestly, we haven't chatted too much and quite sometimes this would be a good catch up call for the. Yeah, man, I think we've been busy a little. I mean, you think we have. We have. I know you're up to a lot of stuff. And I, you know, I think it's, you know, people like us in the space, whatever you want to call this space now, you know, we kind of spy on each other a little bit on social media and you know, on occasion we'll be
like, hey, look what he's doing. That's cool. That's awesome. But we're so stuck and involved in our own things and it's it's good to have this medium that we can reach out and and get caught up again, dude. Yeah, I wouldn't. I mean I love the podcasting and medium cause like on social I've kind of gone to this whole, you know, post and ghost approach. Like I used to scroll, I used to be guilty of that, but honestly, I don't scroll anymore on the
time. I don't have the desire, like I'll put what I'm doing out there, I'll interact with people, I'll add value when possible, but just mindlessly scrolling lends itself to this comparison game and it's just a waste of time at the end of the day. So I I've tried to avoid that if at all possible. 100% I I've kind of pigeonholed myself into just kind of the YouTube thing that's that's kind of where I've evolved into and that's where I'm putting the, you know, I'm a I'm a full time coach.
I mean there there's no question about that and that's what I do. But in terms of getting my information out there, I've been really focusing on the YouTube medium. So I really only have you know, one thing that I need to look at and that's some of the comments on those videos and and the great thing about YouTube is for what I'm doing, you know everything is, is is very directly involved to the content that is there. And I I'm the same as you
brother. I don't really do the the the comments things on on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook and all that stuff. I stick to my Facebook group and the people that I interact with on YouTube and that's about it. I think that's just a healthier place to be. 100% and YouTube's a good medium too, because it's just a longer format, you know, like with this, I don't really like any of the social platforms that are incredibly small because like the headline bullet
points. Like, I'd rather listen to a podcast that's an hour long or watch a YouTube video where you can actually see what the person's trying to convey and it not get conflicted with just misinterpretation. 100% I
totally agree with you brother. When it comes to misinterpretation, I feel like since you and I are both so busy, we often times hear of what each other is doing because of one of our clients or something that somebody brings to our attention as opposed to us actually seeing it ourselves. And for whatever reason, people in this space, but probably any space, are always trying to pit people against one another,
which is unfortunate. I don't like that at all, but you and I are both keto carnivore bodybuilders. And with that said, I'm constantly getting people that are like, hey, have you checked out and see what SO and so's doing or what do you think about this approach or that approach or he says this, you say that. So I think the intra webs would if they had it their way, you and I would be mortal enemies against one another. You're exactly right.
And and you know, just for full Full disclosure for for all of your listeners, you know, we sort of United a little bit and got back in touch because we both had a, a mutual competitor in the industry. And, you know, you were, you know, kind and gracious enough to reach out to kind of the three of us went back and forth and it was just a really refreshing thing. And instantly it came to mind. I I I'm under attack all the time.
First it was in the keto community because, Oh my gosh, he actually gave his competitors some carbohydrates, Oh my gosh, He's not giving them, you know, 95% fat and all this stuff. So I took a lot of heat for that. And then I sort of evolved more into the carnivore space because it just made more sense to me. It was my natural evolution. And I talk about that a lot on my YouTube channel.
But, you know, what I found is in in that community as well, there's so much silly infighting over small ideological differences. And you know, I I thought to myself, this pettiness, this silliness, I mean, we're no better than the damn vegans, you know? So I thought to myself, you know, when when we sort of interacted, I had this sort of light bulb moment go over my head and I thought, you know what, we should talk again.
Because if there's anybody out there that I feel like, you know, I could unite with in this sort of broad ancestral health world that we are both, you know, you know, entrenched in that you and I could have a very intelligent, intelligent conversation and show people even though we have some mild differences in our ideology, how we prescribe thing to clients, you know, what we believe in those things are so small. Why can't we focus more as a community to to to band
together. And I said, you know, use our powers for good and not evil because there are truly so many broken people out there that we could really direct our influence toward and truly help instead of bickering over, you know, a few carbs in our diet or whether we should drink coffee
or or some of these things. And it's just getting to a point where it's driving me crazy, where you know, all this infighting within the space when I think we all need to kind of take a breath and kind of turn around and face away from the choir, you know, and and really try to get out there and help people who are truly suffering and who are truly in need. Because at the end of the day, you know, we're both coaches. We've been doing this for a long time.
I've been doing this for nearly 30 years and I've coached thousands of people. It's it's just amazing. You know, this journey that I've been on and if there's one thing that I know is like every human is slightly different from the next and there's really in my opinion. Now you may disagree with this and I would love to hear it. When I was I was trying to really narrow down, you know, what are the true bullet points that we could all agree with.
And there really just aren't many but the ones. But even though we don't agree 100%, it's just such a small, you know, Ding in the armor that it really, at the end of the day doesn't really matter because it's everybody's each individual tolerance to things. And I think we can all agree that, you know, seed oil suck. You know, they've only been around for about 65 years. There's not a damn good thing about them. They suck and you know, tons of
excess sugar that sucks. And really beyond that, everything else is pretty much open to interpretation. And that's why I sort of evolved into you know, what I call a hyper carnivore diet or what is a hyper carnivore diet. Because by definition a hyper carnivore diet is a a animal mammal species that consumes 70% or more of their, you know, food from animal based sources. And I think that's an excellent start for just about anybody out there.
And the remaining 30% can be open to interpretation based on that individual. You know, some days I'm 95% carnivore, some days I'm 80% carnivore. But if you, you know, project out into this culture that, hey, I had some onions in my ground beef today, you know, they attack you like you just, you know, set their sister on fire. And it's just absolute insanity as far as I'm concerned. So you know, I'm, I'm going off into the weeds here with that
question. But I thought, you know, who better than Robert to get with to maybe unite together and bring some sanity back to this insanity that that's been happening recently? Yeah, totally agree, man. And like like you said, there's a lot more common ground than not. And you know, honestly, there's a lot of common ground that our community shares with the the vegan demographic because they're wanting to take care of the planet, which you can do through proper regenerative
agriculture. That's something I've really been diving into. You've got chickens as well. I was asking you about chickens in an e-mail. We can talk about homesteading on this as well. But yeah, I think no good comes from this negative approach and this dogmatic way of thinking. When I sent you that e-mail because one of my clients moved over to you, I was pretty deep in prep. I had like, I was on my third of or fourth of five shows, and at that point in my life, like, I'm
just incredibly grateful. Like when I'm super deep and deprived, I'm taking one moment at a time and I'm just incredibly grateful. Like I don't have any time for negative thoughts or energy to be in my sphere right now. So I'm just going to shoot Rob an e-mail, tell him I think he's awesome, congratulate our client for doing what she's doing. She looks great. You know, like what? What better way to just cut any negativity that could creep up
by sending a positive e-mail. But I think if more people thought like that, the world would certainly find more common ground as opposed to immediately, you know, going to some form of negativity. But yeah, when it comes to, you know, carnivore, hyper carnivore, general approaches towards food, like I'm pretty much carnivores, well and by your definition of hyper carnivore, I am.
I mean, I literally eat very. I mean minimal vegetation, like I might have a jalapeno pop, or a stuffed mushroom, or some seasoning with garlic salt like that's pretty much the extent of my vegetation. I eat nothing but animal products and a keto brick every day. But a keto brick is not technically carnivore, so I don't claim to be carnivore. Oh, then you're out of the club,
man. You're. Out, I'm out, I'm, I'm exiled. But when you look at my caloric intake and you know how much animal based product I'm consuming, it's predominantly all within the carnivore scope. But it's like, you know, I don't care what people eat. I want people to be healthy. I want to encourage people to minimize processed food, seed oils and excess sugar consumption. But we all want that.
So why can't we just all double down on that foundational belief system as opposed to nitpicking these, you know, majoring in the minor details that benefits no one? Yeah, 100%. And, you know, it's like I had a great conversation with my friend, Doctor Ted Naman, and we were both kind of chuckling about it. You know, we said let's set aside carnivore keto any
definitions. And I think a good start would be to agree that if you can get somebody to consume 30 plus percent of their dietary intake intake from animal protein and reduce the intake of processed foods, reduce seed oil intake, just that lever right there could bring a dramatic impact to anyone's life out there in this culture that we'll leave in
today. And then unfortunately, someone may start down that road and then they log on to, you know, YouTube, you know, influencer, and they get, you know, daggers thrown at them because they might have had a banana. You know, it's it's just and it's sheer insanity.
So yeah, I mean, from my personal experience, again, like I said, we're both coaches and I had sort of this personal evolution coming out more slightly out of the ketogenic world, whatever that means these days into more of the carnivore space. But I was also very vocal from the outset of saying, listen, you know, let's define the terms here because what I've discovered working with countless people in the trenches in real time, it is, it is a few
things. And what I have found is if if you look at the fossil record, if you look back into history, you know, you get these guys and these women nowadays that are just consuming what what could be best described as a lion diet, they're just eating red meat, maybe some salt and some water. And number one, I always say if that's your thing and you're thriving on that, then who am I to say to change it or alter it? I say keep crushing it, Good for
you. But in my experience as a coach working one-on-one on one, you know, we're clinicians, you know, we work directly with people. And I know that for most of the people I work with, that's just not a sustainable thing nor is it rooted in any real ancestral health. It's only recently that people were are subsisting on a 100% cooked muscle meat diet.
If you look back at our history, our ancestors were depending on geographical regions, they were hyper carnivores, they and they were, you know, creatures of opportunity. So there was a survival hierarchy throughout history. And if you look at the simplicity of the original survival hierarchy of our ancestors before the advent of modern agriculture and the industrial revolution, that survival hierarchy was very simple.
It was kill an animal and consume it nose to tail and utilize it for all the good things that it can do for you both through human nutrition and tools and, you know, clothing. And then the next in the survival hierarchy would have been, you know, fire and warmth would have been shelter, would have been water, obviously. And then it would have simply been procreation, survival of the species, everything. Beyond that, we were creatures of opportunity.
So if you lived anywhere where it where there's a climate, where vegetation could occur, you know, especially at the equator or below it, if one of our ancestors were out on that hunt trying to fulfill part of that survival hierarchy, he was also a creature of opportunity. If he were to stumble across a Raspberry Bush or a blueberry Bush, he would have, you know, consumed that thing, completely gorged himself and taken what he couldn't consume back to his family.
And that would have been the same for, you know, like a, like a, like a beehive for honey. It could have been wildflowers, It could have been certain root tubers. It could have been insects. We were also scavengers. If a, an apex predator brought down a animal, they would eat their film and they would walk away from it. If we were to stumble across that, we would take the rest.
That's just what we did. So to say that our ancestors across the board were 100% carnivore is just not accurate. And beyond that, what I found extremely interesting working with people also is I have had a lot of people come to me wanting to sort of fix their carnivore diet, and a lot of it has to do with a carnivore diet relative to their athletic performance or their training. These are active, thriving people who want to look their best and be their best.
And I have people coming to me and saying, you know, I started doing this super strict carnivore diet. I've been in ketosis a long time or whatever, and my hair is falling out or I'm not thriving on my workout. So I'm having severe bouts of insomnia. My testosterone lowered, my SHBG level shot through the roof. I've got women coming to me with thyroid issues. Their T4 to T3 conversion is out of whack and this is really
going to blow people's minds. So, so don't cancel me for saying this, but by adding a small carbohydrate intervention to some of these people or changing their fat to protein ratio or giving them more total macro nutrients, We've seen a lot of these problems be alleviated. Where there are some people out there in that space who would never would have suggested any of those things because it took away from what they've been marketing for so long.
And it might be a reduction in book sales for them or whatever, which I just think is is criminal. So you know, again, I don't have any weird emotional attachment to this stuff. I only try to prescribe to each individual client that I work with what I both truly believe in. My heart of hearts is going to work for them. And client A's macros and caloric ceiling may be completely different from BCD
and all the way down. And the other thing that I've really sort of had this epiphany on is I truly believe there's a difference between having a carb tolerance and a carb threshold. Now once again, I get that this, this is complete, you know, wackery if if you're out there in the space and you're a hardcore carnivore, whatever that means.
But you know, I have clients that come to me that truly we have to give them a carb tolerance, meaning just the smallest amount could send them into an absolute tailspin,
metabolic tailspin. And that's because there's been so many years that they've been inundated with way too much carbohydrate, way too much processed food, way too much seed oils, way too much inactivity, whatever the case may be. And they have such metabolic distress that they truly have to live under a a particular carb tolerance at that point in time and try to fix themselves where you and I both have a lot of people that come to us who are
athletes, they're ass kickers. They're crushing it in the gym. They may be crushing it in the CrossFit box. They may be, you know, ultra marathoners or mountain bikers or jiu jitsu practitioners. We get a lot of those people. In my opinion, they have a carb threshold, as do I. That's the way I operate. So for me, I don't get destroyed if I have a small amount of carbohydrate around a hard workout or a really tough rock out on dynamic terrain.
So I have to determine my own personal carbohydrate threshold so I can continue to crush it, have a sustainable life and find that sweet spot for me. And you and I both Know also that insulin has been demonized almost as bad as carbohydrate has, and I think rather unfairly. Now we both know this massive tidal wave or cascade of insulin coming in all the time. It clearly is a bad thing, but insulin is a very necessary hormone that, you know, actually adds some good things to our lives.
So when I have a little bit of carbohydrate around a brutal workout and then maybe an hour of jiu jitsu, I'm going to utilize that small amount of carbohydrate to produce high intense muscular contractions. And I'm going if that small amount of carbohydrate is going to be protein sparing that bump in insulin is also going to be anti catabolic. And there's another word that you and I both know is very important and that is anabolic. So having that little bump in
insulin is not a terrible thing. It's having that constant cascade of it throughout the day. But again, somebody out there right now may be thinking, Oh my gosh, he's talking about carbs and insulin. I'm talking about a tiny amount for the right individual under the proper circumstances and the proper amount, the proper frequency. And I also acknowledge there are some out there that I wouldn't give a damn Graham to.
They just don't tolerate it where I have some athletes that can operate with, you know, up to 100 grams or more a day and are thriving on that. So we have to treat each personal under their each individual threshold or or tolerance and act accordingly. But The funny thing is, and the moral of the story is based on what we started talking about with the problems with the space, is I can have my day be, you know, 90% animal based meat, eggs, fatty fish and and the
like. And I may decide to have 30 grams of carbs right before 2 hours of crushing workouts that are ahead of me. The only thing anybody ever focuses on is on the banana that I ate. You know it. Which may represent, you know, three to 10% of my total intake for the entire day. Which is just insanity to me, but so be it.
It is what it is. But I I move forward reassured by the massive amount of feedback I get from people saying hey, the changes that were made in my you know, the way I'm eating, the way I'm consuming food has been spectacular. It's been life changing it has fixed everything. I'm crushing it again. I feel great. My blood work is better.
So that's what I rely on is the feedback from these special people that have put their trust and faith in me and and continue to move them down the road in a direction that I think is going to get them to whatever their ultimate destination is. And that is their, their greatest level of optimized genetics. And the reason that I was really excited to do this again today is because I know you feel the
same way. And I see that in some of your social media output and in your podcast and what you say. And you know, last thing I want to say is, you know we have that mutual client that we both worked with and she had a spectacular experience with both of us and gained a ton of knowledge from both of us. And like I said to you in that e-mail, hey, the three of us have produced one spectacular young lady, and we're both proud of that.
So, you know, there you go. So we need we need more of that buying, you know, getting together with our peers and using that information to help others, and not bickering over silly shit like if I ate a banana or not. Yeah, 100% man. I mean, I am marching to the same beat. Like, I don't consume carbohydrates in an acute format as a fuel source. I've pretty much just derive all that from fat and protein.
But I'll have a total of, you know, 30 to 40 grams of total carbohydrates through the day just mixed in with various forms. I mean like depending on how granular you want to get, I mean like raw oysters have carbohydrates in them, you know, you can just those add up electrolytes have carbohydrates in them and I've got some clients at 10 grams total carbs, I've got some clients at 50 grams total carbs depending on how their bodies responding.
I think simply being objective with the data and the feedback the client's giving you and then adjusting it accordingly is key. So many coaches get so stuck in their pattern behavior that they don't treat the clients as individual, which is incredibly unfortunate. Like I don't have scripted meal plans that I don't that I give out. I don't have like a same template that I give out. Like I adjust clients macros on a weekly basis based off the feedback they're giving me on a daily basis.
Like I am not doing anything in a scripted format. And I think when you have coaches that are just trying to scale to these, I mean, you can't work one-on-one with people. If you're working with 300 clients, like it's just you can't do that. You know, you can't just send out a blanket statement and say this is what everybody should be doing and expect optimal results from all 300 people. It just doesn't work that way.
So yeah, take an individualized approach and we as a species are, I mean we we can't really look at us like we would a lion or a a zebra and be like, OK, this is the optimal diet for for them because they don't really have the conscious that we do. So we have this psychological component which is obviously going to have a massive impact on what is sustainable, what do we enjoy eating, what are the social and societal settings for
how we consume food. And you have to factor all that into the equation, and that's going to make the sustainability factor key. And if it's not sustainable for you, it's not going to work for you. And if you prefer higher carbohydrate intake in your body's performing fine with that, then more power to you. If it's not and you want to see a change, then make a change. But like truly viewing it to an individual, lens is paramount as a coach. Exactly 100%.
And you know, I had somebody say to me, Oh well, didn't you know that the, the, the, the cultures back in the day that lived in Arctic regions, they were 100%, you know, carnivore, the no carbohydrate whatsoever. And I said really well what did they consume? And they said, well, they just would eat like, you know, like sea lions and and and Penguins
and shit. And I was like, OK and did you know that often times they ate those animals raw, they they liked raw meat and they also survived off of the blood and raw dairy that came from a lot of those animals as well. And when you consume raw meat and you drink animal blood that has not been cooked, you are consuming A considerable amount of muscle glycogen contained within that that blood.
And you're having some lactose with the raw dairy and you know some is creeping in and and it doesn't have to be a large amount. And so it's it's not how much or how little but finding the precise amount required to produce the the desired result. And that's going to be different for every individual. So you know, while I have just like you said, exactly like you said, I may have a client on 20 grams of total carbohydrate for the day. And that's all they can tolerate.
And they do better by utilizing their energy systems through dietary fat and protein. And then I have some people that if I were to do that, they would completely fall apart. Now nobody wants to hear that because it's not sexy and it's not old, you know, Joe Carnivore, but it's just the
truth. And once again, I operate on what's in front of me, on the data that's in front of me, based on being a guy that works with people in real time, in the trenches and is always looking the to produce the greatest desired result. You know this as well as I do. We if if we don't get results from our clients, they fire us,
you know. And so we have to continually sift through the data that were presented with on a daily, weekly and monthly basis and try to, you know, arrange things to give our client the best shot of reaching their greatest, you know, genetic potential. And that's going to be different for every single one. When you said I don't have, you know, cookie cutter diets, well I don't either. Why it would never work. That would never work.
If we gave everybody some blanket meal plan, we would have to 40 people, we'd have 4 to 40 people with different experiences and different results, and it would be all over the all over the map. So you have to assess it to each individual's individual tolerance based on that human being, what their goals are, their gender, their age, their their time of training, all of these things come into play.
So you know, I've just started marching to my own drum and I was expecting a little bit of pushback from that. Like most recently I I did a video on on my YouTube channel. It was just last week and it's it's a video that I'd wanted to do basically for the last year and I called it my Ultimate Carnivore RX or my Ultimate Carnivore prescription for strength, performance and longevity.
And that was sort of my you know, culmination of what I have learned in the trenches working with people over the last couple of years, including myself when I went very hyper carnivore in my contest prep for 2019 and 2021. And it's fair to say that, you know, from my from training from 2019 through 2021 was my greatest, you know, results as a physique competitor. You know, I had several class wins in the NPC using that particular style of eating and
training. So there's something to be said for that. And then when I've also coached so many people to top three placings using that same prescription, but then just adjusting it based on each individual's needs and output, you know, that's when it all really came together for me. And you know, that video I thought would give me a lot of pushback in the space and I was super excited and and very blessed when I got the greatest amount of emails and DMS and contact from that one video that
I just put out. Then I have for any other video that I put out in years of people saying, you know, I I felt like you were talking to me. I had these same experiences. I made a lot of these changes. I'm making a lot of these changes and I'm already seeing benefit. I'm already seeing the
difference. So it really reinforced to me, hey, you're not trying to please your peers, You're not trying to please, you know, the algorithms, You're trying to please real people who are put their faith in you. And that's all you need to focus on. And at the end of the day, you'll sleep pretty damn good at night if you do that. Amen to that, brother. I think doing it for the right reasons is key. I mean, who cares what the subscriber count is?
The follower count is like if you get that one e-mail that says, hey, what you said in this video or this podcast totally changed how I thought about food, my approach to training, nutrition and healthy lifestyle design, and now I'm living a more fruitful, fulfilled life like that right there. Makes it worth it. And that does not depend upon follower counts or algorithms or any of this stuff. I mean, truly connecting with people as people is the the
correct goal of any true coach. Right, 100%. And and that's why I knew that we needed to get caught back up again because I, I, I know we both kind of felt that way and I was really feeling some frustration in the community. And you know, I guess, you know you've made it in this world especially in in the carnivore you know space that I'm hip deep into now when others start making reaction videos about
you. So there's been a couple of guys out there that have made videos about me basically pining on for an hour and a half about how I'm doing everything wrong. And, you know, some of these videos are like watching paint dry. But you know, I, I, I figure, you know, if you're going to spend an hour and a half telling the world what I'm doing wrong rather than spending your time and energy to get out there and help somebody who is truly broken, then, you know, shame on you.
But whatever. I'm checking out, man. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing and I'm going to, you know, focus on having as much gratitude as I possibly can for the the honor and privilege that I have to work with these people. And I'm going to shut off all of
the the noise that's out there. You know, I'm going back to what you said about, you know, not scrolling through the comments, staying dedicated to the task and waking up every day saying how can I, you know, use this information to help people out there and and stop the silly bickering and infighting that's all too common in this industry right now. Yeah, 100%. I got no time or use for haters.
Like if you're not doing something productive with your time to add more value than you take, then I got no time for you. I mean, there's been a lot of people that have hated on me too, because I take such a strict approach to my diet personally. But I've I've done it multiple ways. Like I've incorporated lots of carbohydrates in the past before I was keto and here lately I've just been strict keto. But I mean I've looked better than I've ever looked.
I've felt better than I've ever felt and I've reaped the rewards of that like I've I went pro this year in a different federation and my physique speaks for itself. I don't need to try and explain away myself to someone. That's just they're trying to hate on social, especially when they're probably not doing anything productive with their own life, their own time or their own community. You know, it's just not a worthwhile use of our resources,
our time, our opportunities. So yeah, I think you know, people that have the time to hate on others and throw shade. I got enough time for them. 100%, man, we we are in total agreement there. And it's it's refreshing because man it it can get a little negative out there. But you know again the Internet is like a gun. You can either use it to wage war and do something nefarious or you can use it to protect yourself and your family.
It's just on how you, how you look at it, how you handle it so that that's the way I see it. Totally independent of the macronutrient distribution. One thing I've noticed and haven't noticed for years and I've really tried to speak out on and I'm sure you've seen this as well is just people having a lot of these issues hormonally simply as a result of not eating enough food. I mean like if you are and I noticed this really kind of and this has been going on forever.
But when the hyper, you know, the high protein trend came back and fat was becoming demonized, it's like people forgot that there are a lot of calories in fat to the extent where they would just eat really lean source of protein and we're consuming sub 1000 calories a day and then started having hormonal issues. So have you noticed a lot of people eating just far, far, far too little and then that being the primary driver for their issues?
Absolutely. I mean, who better to speak on this topic than you and I who have been deep and deep into a contest prep. And you know, when you and I do a show, it's all in. You know, it's all in. I mean, anybody out there, if you've ever achieved 4% body fat, there is a considerable amount of long term suffering that goes into that. And you know, Yeah, absolutely.
I mean I always talk about, you know, people are overtraining and they're under eating and that seems to be the default mechanism that most people fall into. And one of the first things that I do when I get a lot of people is I immediately give them a diet break and I start to nourish them again. They're they're consuming way too little fat, they're not nourishing themselves and that that reduction of fat is going to lend to poor hormonal output
and metabolic distress. And so we retool everything and and that's the term that I use out of the gate is we need to re nourish you and most people. We also have to pull back on the training volume. You know, I'm, I'm very well known for being the guy that says I believe you should incorporate the greatest amount of intensity in the shortest amount of time possible when you're training in the gym. And I've been operating under that ideology for 30 years.
I'm a high intensity training advocate and I always will be. I've seen no better approach for myself and many of the people that I train. So in this world that we live in, in this culture we live in today, pretty much anything you get that comes down from this so-called experts, you can pretty much do the opposite that I found.
So yeah, when people come to me, more often than not the first course of action is to feed these people and dial back the training and then we have to focus on things that often get gets left out. You know, I often say recovery is a weapon and in in terms of your training, your diet, you know recovery needs to be just as important as the as the
former too. And then people also don't don't take into consideration things like, you know, adequate sun, exposure time outdoors, you know, avoiding blue light stimulation, environmental toxin, sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep. People who are avoiding sleep could be incorporating one of the most severe metabolic disturbances in their body that they can imagine.
I have people that eat perfectly trained just the way I tell them to, and they're trying to operate on four or five hours of sleep a night, like it's some kind of a badge of honor. And then once we correct that, then things always get better. There's usually that one loose end and you know what I'm talking about that, that once we correct that, then everything starts to shine through. So 100% man, I, I, I agree with
you completely. I think we live in a culture of excess, but it's directed in the wrong direction and nourishing the body is step one and making sure that your level of output doesn't completely outweigh the level of energy effective energy intake to nourish the body and and to produce the desired effect of optimal health and optimized health. And when you're eating real food, it's interesting, man, because I I totally get the whole law of thermodynamics and
calorie intake. And I mean, that's all very important. And so many people have tried to just throw that to the wayside in the space, which is not a wise move whatsoever, but that's a whole other podcast in and of itself. However, I have noticed that when you're eating real food, your body's tolerance for a much higher caloric intake. It just seems to happen by
default. Like when I was absolutely, you know, processed foods and and just cheap ingredient foods, filler foods, 6000 calories would totally wreck me. I would just put on copious amounts of body fat, whereas I could tolerate a similar caloric intake. Now eating the types of foods that I eat and 6000 is a little obsessive for my stature, but I could eat a lot now and my body just responds very favorably to it because it's all food that my body is familiar with. It's all real ingredients.
And I feel like when people step away from that fake food and then just simply eat more of the real stuff, they can experience what True health actually has to offer.
Well, you're you're 100% right. I mean, like I said earlier, if somebody's not willing to take the the complete dive off the Cliff and and do everything, you know, perfectly pinpointed down to the macros and the exact list of foods, then it's oftentimes saying, hey, let's start with getting adequate protein, let's get real food in your body and let's avoid any processed food, seed, oils and excess amounts of refined sugar.
If we just pull that one lever, you know, amazing things happen because quality of nutrients matters big time as you just stated and you we can touch on the calorie thing real fast.
That's an annoyance for me too. And Speaking of those reaction videos that people do, someone did one on me because I still use calorie calculations with my clients, but they didn't stick around long enough for me to explain myself, which is often what happens, we get taken out of context with what we do because it doesn't produce, you know, a quick headline or 144
character tweet. So you know, I will agree immediately that to calculate output in a human being is extremely hard to do. So when you get on a treadmill and it says you're going to do produce this many calories or expend this many calories in this amount of time, it's just it's throwing darts at a board, a very big board. Yeah, I don't even and. I don't use any of my estimated caloric expenditure trackers for anything. I never even look at them. Absolutely not.
So when I get a client, we will use the calorie measurement as a tracking tool because I know as much or more than anybody that you know. Protein may not quite be 4 calories per gram because of the way the thermic effect of that food and the way it reacts to the body and how it's utilized and how it doesn't want to be used as an energy source and how it's used to repair cells and tissue. And depending on the type of fat you consume, it may not be 9
calories per gram. It that differs and the way the effects of food on your body through processed foods and seed oils and sugars and simple sugars, it all reacts differently to the body. So what we can do is I can make a gross calculation and divide up macros based on that person's input that they give me. But here's the thing, just to say count these calories every day is not going to be accurate.
So what we do is we develop a baseline and then we hit that baseline for four to six weeks and then we track the results. So once we go through that period of time, then it's you know, a system of, you know, covering what has happened. So I'll say to them, OK, how has your body composition changed, changed over this, this 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. How has your sleep been affected? How does your training been affected? So I it's an adjusted caloric ceiling, it's an adjusted.
Level of calories of protein, fat, and a small amount of carbohydrates. For me, it's typically around training. So yeah, the carnivore space is quick to judge people who use, you know, calories as a tracking tool. But what they don't understand is people who are doing it correctly, coaches who actually know what the hell they're doing, are going to adjust that metric based on the results of the client and make that
adjustment. So, you know, 100 calories isn't exactly 100 calories necessarily. It's the type of food you you take in, the level of output of the client and how their body reacts to it. So once we set that loose baseline, knowing that it's not an accurate measurement, we're we're trying to get in the
ballpark. But then when we work with that person in real time for a period of time, then we can make the necessary adjustments to those calculations to make sure that everything is continuing to move in the direction that we want it to move toward. But somehow that that gets lost in translation. And so people think, oh, I've
got content now. I I can bash on this coach for what he's doing or what he advocates to try to get clicks and follows and likes rather than, you know, letting this guy do his good work. And let me focus on, you know, myself and try to, you know, extend my knowledge and be someone who is there for my clients or people that may put their faith in them. So you know. Exactly right. I mean to to say, oh, well, if you use calories as as a measurement tool, you're doing
it wrong. Well, that's horseshit. I'm sorry. If you do it properly and make the necessary adjustments to those calculations based on the real time input that you're getting from that client, you know that. That's to say so. So every champion bodybuilder you know for the last 60 years who have used calories and macros calculations have been doing it wrong even though they pursue produced amazing world class physiques for since you know, longer than I've been
alive. I mean, come on, It's just silly to say that, you know? So there there are definitely two ways to skin a cat, whatever. Whatever that means. Yeah, and I mean I totally get people wanting to eat intuitively. And if you're going to go that route of eating intuitively, following an animal based diet and removing the noise from the equation is certainly the best way to do it.
But if you're trying to compete at a, you know, high level, especially in the realm of bodybuilding, or if you're not seeing results with what you're doing by eating intuitively, removing as many variables as possible in the context of a caloric deficit, optimizing the nutrient density of the foods you are eating, and then hopefully eating you know similar foods on a relatively consistent basis, Any of those inaccuracies are likely going to average out over enough time
anyway. So tracking them consistently and then making those necessary manipulations, even if it's not 100% accurate via what a bomb calorimeter would suggest the caloric intake is, you can adjust the manipulations you have control over by the response your body has given you. And I mean that that just makes common sense. It's common sense. It it well put and I agree with you 100% and you know, the the fact remains we're not living under that survival hierarchy
that I mentioned earlier. You know, life is a lot more difficult for us living in the greatest temptation culture of all time. I mean, I often say you can't go to Home Depot and buy a fucking screwdriver without being tempted by candy and chips and soda and garbage at the checkout. I mean, it is everywhere. We're inundated with it everywhere. And there are so many people out there doing everything in their power to bring you down when you're trying to make a super
positive change for good. Because psychologically, if you are trying to pull someone down for them making a positive change, what that means is, is you're just trying to justify your laziness by bringing them down to your level. Because you, you know you aren't willing to make those changes. And so you know, I I use the term all the time, you got to be the freak in the room wherever you go.
I just did a video on this. And all that means is, is when you are in any environment, you need to be the person that is, you know, above the culture of influence of our time. And you're the one that trains hard. You're the one that makes those dietary sacrifices and eats the necessary things in the right proportions to make themselves the best genetic version of themselves that they can be.
You know, you will, you know, say I can't go to this party or I can't do this because I need adequate sleep. I need my adequate recovery, you know, and I know you do this just the other day, you know, I I worked much later than I thought I would. I thought I'd get home at 2 PMI. Didn't get home until 6:30 PM. It was dark. It's cold here in North Carolina. It was pouring down rain. Great. Disgusting. But I knew I had a a Hard Rock
workout scheduled for that day. So rather than sit down by the warm fireplace that my wife had made and and have dinner with my family, I strapped on my shit and I went out there and I got it done. And people that do that truly in most cases, are the freak in the room everywhere they go. And if you can resolve to be that freak in any one of those social settings or any of those environments, then you're always
going to come out better. And sooner or later, those people who were trying to bring you down to their level to justify their laziness, they're going to start quietly coming up to you and asking, So what? What are you doing? Because you're looking pretty damn good and I can see changes in you. You know, it's it's so, yeah, exactly. That's just, you know, that's just the way I see it echoing exactly what you said. And it it all goes back to the whole, you know, point that
we've been trying to say. Mind your business, take care of yours, Be the best human that you can be, Live with gratitude, be there for your clients and your care for others is your measure of greatness. That's the bottom line. Yeah, Amen, brother. On all those counts I mean I could not agree more be the outlier and and do do the work that every like the the masses are not willing to do. Like you're you said it earlier and it's absolutely right. Like I look what the masses are doing.
I tend to have the best results when I do the exact opposite and that's what I've been doing the vast majority of my life and it's served me pretty well thus far. So 100. Percent, you know, it's like it's like drugs. I mean, you know, I I haven't filled a prescription in I think 17 years and I'm 55 years old and that was for a pain pill I didn't take, you know, for for me. Walgreens is where you buy
emergency toilet paper. You know, I I know there are people in the back behind glass wearing white coats. I'm not really sure what they do. I don't go back that far. So, you know, with, with, with the Pharmaceutical industry, government run agencies, big food, big agriculture, pretty much anything that comes down the information, you know, a superhighway that I'm told to do, just do the opposite and you're probably going to be fine. Oh, we're eating too much meat.
Oh, cow farts are destroying the environment. Oh, we need to take more drugs. Oh, you need to get this jab. Oh, you need to do this. No, just do the opposite. And more than likely, you're going to be far above and beyond most of your peers. 100%, ma'am, 100%.
I want to touch on the training a little bit because you you've brought up the high intensity, lower volume and I think training is something that people often times get wrong, as you alluded to. Can you kind of paint a picture as to what a typical training structure for you looks like? I'm curious. Yeah, now I I still do a what I call a pro split, not a bro split.
I hate that term. You know, bodybuilders have been, you know, demonized recently because you know, we may do one or two body parts on one day and then another body part the next day. Well, you know what, don't fix
it if it's not broken. If you're trying to make an aesthetic change of of muscular hypertrophy, in my opinion that's still the way to go. So I do a four day high intensity hypertrophy split and I'm a big believer in high intensity training, meaning I think most people are grossly over trained and they're not giving enough time for the
recovery mechanism. So what that means to me is instead of doing 456 sets on a particular exercise and then maybe coming back three days later and working that same muscle group again. It makes logical, rational sense to me to spend less time in the gym, work to a greater level of intensity to set the growth mechanism into motion and then
leave it alone and let it grow. Like I I try to give an example all the time when I do these podcasts or I talk to clients and I'll say let let me create a scenario for you real quick as an example. Like for instance yesterday we trained back and you know in that workout we did reverse grip cable pull downs. Everybody knows that that's been training. You know, I'm sure you you've used that exercise. So as an example I will do, we did that as the first exercise of of the session.
So what I did is I often say feeder to failure. That's a term I use a lot with my clients and they know what I mean. Meaning I will do one, maybe two what I call feeder sets at roughly 60 to 70% of rate of intensity or rate of perceived exertion. So, and I'm usually working in a hypertrophy Rep range of anywhere from 8 to 12 repetitions on most exercises. So I will choose a weight that is roughly, and I know this from experience because I've been training week to week.
I'll choose a weight that's roughly 60% of my failure or greatest, you know, level of intensity. And I'll do a set just to warm up the muscles, get some blood flowing and get mentally prepared to go to war because that's what it is. And then I might do a second set and maybe 70% of of my maximum perceived effort. And then I'm going to walk around the gym, get my head right, adjust that, pin up a couple more plates, you know, smear on my Braveheart War paint, get underneath that bar.
And I'm going to give it everything I have. So let's say it I get to Rep number 7 and I'm dying, but I'm still maintaining good form. It's everything that I got. I'm shaking. I got the cartoon sweat flying off my forehead. I'm it's it's brutal. And I finally, after maybe 8 to 10 seconds, get that Rep down to the top of my chest. And I slowly do that negative. Now my workout partners know, OK, it's it's time for that Rep Now here comes that failure Rep So I'll give it everything I
have, everything that's in me to get that final Rep down. 100% total concentric muscular failure. Nothing left in the tank. I bring that bar back up, the set is over. And then the question that I asked everyone is if I have just done that, why would I do another set? And nobody's been able to answer that question since because by taking that set to that level of intensity and that set, that level of failure, I have put the
growth mechanism into motion. Leave no doubt that at that point I have sent a signal via neurotransmitter from the brain that says for whatever reason, that amount of resistance and that, that he was trying to incorporate, we could barely handle that. In fact, we couldn't handle it at the end. So as a defense mechanism, in the event he's ever going to do that again, which I will next week, we'd better produce overcompensation.
Now what that means is, is when you do, you know that all out set to failure, you've created a deficit, you've you've torn down the muscle. You know, we know this is basic Physiology. And then the amount of time that it takes for that muscle to repair itself and grow back to the baseline that you were before you did that set, well, that's just compensation. That's just getting you back to baseline by giving it an additional amount of recovery
that is over compensation. That's actually building new muscle. So that's the level that you need to take it to in order to maximize muscular hypertrophy. Now I think it also is fair to be said that if you're a drug free athlete I think it's even more important to operate in a high intensity training program because you don't have the luxury of heightened recovery because of the use of PEDs and a
lot of people. This gets lost when when we get into the gym and we're following our favorite IFBB, Mr. Olympia caliber pro bodybuilder and he's doing these marathon hour, hour and a half workouts. What's what gets lost in that is the fact that he is sauced to the damn gills and his level of recovery is 3-4 times that of what you know average Joe's is
in the gym. So, and I can also lastly make the argument by not going to such massive volume, it's actually safer because you cannot generate that level of intensity for an hour, hour and a half because then things are going to start to have diminishing returns in terms of form and technique. Things might get sloppy, but I know if I keep impeccable form and I go to a movement, I give
it everything I have. And once I've accomplished that, that set is over and I'm moving on to the next exercise. And then that's probably the reason why in almost 30 years of hard training, I've never had a serious injury, Not one. And that's always the way I've trained. And if I'm being honest I I sort of backed off on that a little bit when I was competing from 2014 through 2018 and I'd I'd play second I'd I'd placed third and never quite got there.
And when I really said to myself you know what I I'm going to go old school and I'm going to go back to the Super high intensity training protocol that I grew up on that I believe in and my heart of hearts is the greatest to produce the best physique possible. And especially at my age.
I mean I was, you know, I I I I competed in my late 40s and early 50s and when I made that change over to my heart, hyper carnivore, bodybuilding protocol, nutrition and I switched to 100% off full on you know high intensity training protocol again, that's when things made a significant shift for the better for me and I finally started winning my class and made it you know all the way to nationals.
So not bad for an old guy that only intended to do 1 show back in 2014. So I trained many of my clients that way and I see the most significant results in muscular growth and hypertrophy with that style of training. So super great emphasis on the recovery mechanism. So it's train it super hard, set that growth mechanism into motion and then let it grow. Because if you do too much or too many sets, all you're doing at that point is creating a
deeper inroad into recovery. You're just extending the amount of time that it's going to take to get that muscle to not only compensate but overcompensate and get the adequate level of growth that you intended to occur in the 1st place. So that's just the way I operate and and I'm pretty much going to die on that hill. So I I see no reason in changing that. Well it's clearly working for you man. You got a super impressive physique so you're you're not really ever doing drop sets.
When you reach that set to failure at the heaviest way, you're doing like 2 feeder sets that. Sometimes I do not. That's that's just another another level of intensity. So you know, every once in a while I will say OK, for this set I'm going to do a cluster set which just is creating a different style of intensity. So I may say OK on on my failure set, I'm going to select a weight that I think I can do 8 to 10 times and and then I'll do
that. And then I might take 10 breaths and rest and then get a couple more reps and then I may take 10 breaths and rest and maybe get that one more Rep So it's just changing up the modality of intensity to push towards that failure and coax more out of the set. So absolutely to your point which is is well put any way I can push to failure or beyond is what I'm going to try to do.
Now I don't do those cluster sets or rest pause sets or drop sets or force negatives or or all the time because it can be a little bit too much on the central nervous system to train at that level all the time. But we most definitely sprinkle those in from time to time 100%. So, yes, yes. OK, gotcha. And you're you're typically training, you said four days a week and you'll you'll not train back again until the next week after doing that?
That's correct. Exercises you're probably not going to do, like another Latin movement after that pull down. You probably just switch like a row or deadlift or something of that nature. Exactly. Yeah. We're going to, we're kind of, you know, work the angles of the muscle.
So I'm going to choose a movement that's going to you know work the lats and then I might choose a movement that's going to work the rhomboids and then I may do something that's going to be more you know total strength and working also the trapezius like a deadlift, you know, so we're kind of kind of work the angles in terms of muscle stimulation and then once we feel like we've hit a movement that is stimulating growth from that particular region then we're just going to
move on. But these days you know now that I'm not competing anymore the the bizarre thing is is that I'm kind of I'm training differently but just as hard. So now I'm doing that hard four day split in the gym and I try not to have those workouts exceed 30 to 40 minutes and that's with two training partners. So it's it's very high intensity, very low volume.
But then later in the day, now that my goal is, you know, to be the the best badass that I can be at any age, I might go out on a heavy rock with 65 lbs On my back and I might do some metabolic work. I might do some heavy bag work. I might at the end of my rock, I might do a Max set of push ups or some sledgehammer swings on a tire. You know, that kind of stuff. Because now I'm trying to be a
complete athlete. Now, it's not just about aesthetics because you and I, you know, when when we're in prep, it's all about doing whatever we have to do to retain as much muscle as possible and then obviously try to produce more if we can, to reach a certain aesthetic. Now, my goal is not aesthetic, it's performance and longevity. And even if you push for performance and longevity, the side effect of that is going to be you're still going to look
pretty damn good as well. I no longer have a goal or a desire to be 5% body fat because that's not sustainable and we know it's not healthy long term. So now if I can stay somewhere between 10 and 14% year round and be able to take on anything that crosses my path, then that's what I'm working toward now. So it's not just about aesthetic
goals anymore. It's about being a high performing badass at any age, being that freak in the room that I mentioned before because we want to be the best example we can be to our families and our clients and all those who put our faith in US. And I would be doing a disservice if I took my foot off the gas. So, you know, like I said, I'm, I'm not a young man anymore. So I want to be that freak weirdo that when he's 65 is still doing crazy shit in the gym, crazy shit out on the
trails. And I'm going to be that crazy guy that takes his grandson to the park and is going face first down the slide and swinging on the monkey bars like some lunatic. While all the other parents sit on the park bench because they're too fat, too broken and too lazy to get out there and play with their kids.
Yeah, that is key man. Like there's a yin and Yang to to bodybuilding in you know right now I'm 4% body fat and there's there's benefits to that but that is certainly not sustainable or the ideal approach to what people. Would God bless you, man? God bless you. I don't ever want to be there again. Yeah, yeah. I mean there's there's pros and cons to everything, but like being able to live life to the fullest and enjoy the memories with those around you.
Especially like I said, you have grandkids. I've got a son now and it's like if I'm sacrificing that for too long to fixate on something else, like maintaining 4% body fat which is not healthy for me, or if I am too lazy to function and play with my son because I don't want to put in the work or do those hard things, then life is just not being lived to the
fullest. I feel like if you're able to move, we've all got relatives like I've got my my grandparents right now that are simply not able to function as I would like to function at their age because they have not put in the time and attention to detail with their nutrition and their
training, just their activity. So simply being able to go through life as a functional human that is self-sufficient is paramount and ideally able to add value to those around you and you can't add the most value to those around you if you are bedridden and can't get out of your chair. So yeah, 100% man. Like being being hardcore, being badass, being the freak in the room at all ages and all walks of life, for all intents and purposes is is the utmost goal. So. Can we get for that 100%?
Yeah, man. My, my grandson is five and he was over at our house earlier this week and we were asked by my son and daughter-in-law if he could come to our house on Saturday night and spend the night because that they have a a function, they have to go to some. We're like absolutely, you know that this would be great. So my 5 year old grandson is sitting there looking up at me and and he's like oh, I get to spend the night Saturday. I'm like, yeah, I said, well you know what that means?
He's like what? Papa and I said, you better bring 2 swords because we're going to be in the backyard in battle, sword fighting and engaging with the enemy. And he lit up. He just got so excited he couldn't stand himself. So you can damn well bet this Saturday night, rain or shine, I don't care if it's snowing. Me and that five year old are probably going to be decked out like Knights in shining armor out in the backyard swinging swords and probably chasing chickens and getting filthy.
And you know that that is life and and that's what little boys need. Little boys need to just have the shit kicked out of them. They need to go 100 miles an hour and be boys and I intend on just wearing him out. And we're going to be heroes slaying Dragons until long after dark. Yeah, man. When you have confidence in your own body and its abilities, you're able to give yourself freedom to have an imagination again. And when you have that at any
age, you're winning, you know? So like, you've been able to do that with your grandson, that that's that's freaking awesome. And like, I want that for everybody. Oh yeah, I mean, what? And that's what we're doing. And we're doing that outside of the opinion and input of others because we know what we're doing. We've lived this life everything that we do from the time we wake up until the time our heads hit the pillow. We are pushing the limits. We are testing the waters.
We're being the best versions of ourselves we can possibly be. And we're doing it out of a love for helping others. And and we we have gratitude and we want that that we put in ourselves to be an extension of ourselves to be able to be infectious into the lives of others. And when you're doing that on a daily basis that there's no better feeling there's there's no better 'cause or purpose that you can engage in for helping others than doing just that.
And you know I commend you for doing that and and I love the fact that you are that person and and you're out there in the trenches doing it. You're not just talk, you're you. You walk the walk and you know both of us don't want to be no, you know, all show and no go. So you know that that's what it's all about, man. And I love the fact that we agree on all these points and you know, we need to have more of these kind of discussions. We totally do. I mean, we, I didn't even get
into the homesteading aspect. We need to do another follow up podcast and talk about your chickens, man. We got chickens now. We're going to get some pigs, some Lambs. Oh man, we want. I want pigs. I want pig. I want goats. Yeah, yeah. So we'll have to have a whole another follow up podcast all about homesteading and being, you know, procuring your own food. There's so much to be said for that. So I think that's in in the pipeline for sure. Yeah, I'm only, I'm only as far
as the chickens. So yeah, I might need to pick your brain a little bit about the an extension of that, because anything outside of raising chickens and having dogs and cats, it's it's that's all new shit to me. Well, it all goes hand in hand with like our philosophy towards nutrition. I mean, you want to eat quality food, you want to eat food that you know what it ate.
So being able to, you know, procure yourself, raise it yourself, know exactly what its inputs were, I mean that's just, it goes hand in hand with optimizing this style and nutrition lifestyle. So yeah, it's it's a easy segue
for sure. 100% my goal, my my end game at some point down the road is, you know, like 50 acres in the middle of nowhere in a solar cabin, all cows and chickens and goats and pigs and yeah, man, and what better environment to have children and grandchildren running around in with the world where it is today. I mean that that should be the end game, man. That that's that's the dream. Well, we definitely need to put our hands together on that.
I mean, I've got family in North Carolina and you got to go up there and visit them and you swing by you. We got to train together sometime, cook a steak together. We got to make all that happen. Absolutely. I would absolutely love that, man. So let's let's push to do that. Absolutely. Where can people find out more about you and what do you got exciting in the pipeline, man? What are you working on now?
What are you stoked about? You know what, since I'm not competing anymore, that did give me the ability to be fully driven and committed to being a full time coach. And that's what I'm doing. And in terms of how I'm getting the word out, I've I've, you know, sort of funneled all of my efforts to being more engaged and on YouTube. So if if anybody wants to honor me with checking out my YouTube channel, I'd truly appreciate that.
And you know, you can find everything that I do at robgoodwin.com and it's a pretty easy search on YouTube to find me as well. And I, like I said, I'd be humbled and honored if somebody wanted to check that out and, you know, shoot me an e-mail, shoot me a comment. And I'd love to hear from you. Well, I will certainly put all those links in the description, make it easy for people to find you. When it comes to coaching, man like I take it very like you and I are both very competitive
people. Like we we step on stage in posing trunks for the world to see and we're very competitive. Like we go to war and we bring the best package that we can. Like we are there with camaraderie amongst other competitors. But make no mistake we're there to tear their heads off and be the best that we can be. But when it comes to coaching, man, like I am not competitive at all. And I'm grateful that there's other coaches like you out there.
Because I think at the end of the day, when you're working with such an individualized pool of clientele, as they are all individuals, it does no one any good to be incredibly protective Like the more ketogenic coaches out there, the more carnivore coaches out there that are preaching a similar message.
That's that's what we want. Because what you put out there, what I put out there, as long as it's on that same trajectory, how you say it, how I say it, that's going to resonate with people differently and they should work with people that they resonate most with. So having a non competitive approach towards working with people, there's seven plus billion people on this planet, you know there is plenty to go
around. So being free with that information, having the sense of camaraderie amongst your colleagues, amongst your peers, I'm grateful for it, man. So I'm, I truly enjoy conversations like this. I love that we can talk about training, nutrition, homesteading and dogma in the space and hopefully both you and I can just do whatever we have in our power to do to break those walls down and bring people together. I could not agree more. Man very well said. Well, Rob, always a pleasure, man.
We will make that steak and workout happen in the near future. Until then, brother, you keep killing it. Stay savage and keep making an impact, Man, You're fighting the good fight. Thank you, buddy. God bless you. Take care, man.