Well, hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto savage.com and today I've got special guest Doctor Martoni on the line and we dive deep into optimizing 1's sleep. So that's something we should all take interest in. We all sleep, hopefully some of us better than others. I am guilty of not getting much REM sleep or enough deep quality sleep. So he kind of broke that down.
And also how proper sleep truly impacts everything from digestion to making sure you're in the parasympathetic state, more often than not fully recovering, all that good stuff that we all know to be true, but often times don't prioritize. So we dive deep into optimizing 1's sleep, how to position yourself as you sleep, how to set the stage from a balance standpoint, from a structural standpoint, and from just a conscious and subconscious standpoint. So very interesting conversation.
I learned a ton. I know that you will take something from this so that further delay. Sit back, relax through the podcast with Doctor Martoni. And we are live, Doctor Martoni. How are you, Sir? Unbelievable. Glad to hear it. Glad to hear it. So you are a expert in all things optimizing sleep quality, which is something that I certainly need to work on. I'm sure most of my listeners do to some extent as well. So give me some background and what got you interested in sleep to begin with.
Yeah. So my undergrad, I was a kinesiologist, so the study of bio mechanics is kind of my jam. And then I went through chiropractic school and was practicing chiropractor for 24 years. And within that period of time, I'd see my patients come in with the same exact problems time and time and time again. And we were helping them at the time with all sorts of chronic illness from from breathing issues, asthma, allergies, women
could not get pregnant. We were really focused on a specific nerve called the vagus nerve, which is really the rest in digest nerve that controls it's called the parasympathetic nervous system. So it's 80% of all the nervous system function. And then finally one day I was mountain biking and, and I had twisted wrong and landed and herniated my own disc. And I'm and as a chiropractor at the time, I had a lot of back pain all the time.
So it's helping my patients with all this dysfunction in their spine and aligning their spine. They're coming in with the same problems and they're still having, you know, dysfunction within their system. And then when I herniated my disc, I said, man, there's got to be something else.
I, what the heck am I missing? So I reviewed about 3500 X-rays at the time and found that there was a pattern that because I had this forward head posture, which most people have because they're on, you know, they're texting and they're side sleepers and they're on computers all day long. I I that picked up a reactive what's called SOAS major muscle spasm and the SOAS is the only muscle in the human body
attaches directly to a disk. So I said man, if I can theoretically change the curve of my spine, I could then take pressure off of my disc and maybe incense heal my own disc problem. So I started saying when the heck can I do this? I said well I can do it at night when I sleep. So I started jamming pillows
underneath my neck. I started rolling up towels and I worked on really focusing on just staying in one position and not turning and trying to fix my neck while I slept while lo and behold, my disc problem went away. Then they started doing this with patients and not only did their pain and dysfunction get better, the nervous system started healing. Their digestion issues were going away. Their immune systems were getting, you know, more and more.
You know, they were digesting their foods better. They're getting healthier. So I'm like, holy mackerel. Next thing you know, you know, 15 years later, I'm in the sleep industry. Nice, nice. Well, I definitely want to peel the curtain back here because I have tried a lot of different things to get my sleep dialed in and some of them I think I've definitely been worth their while. You know, things like blackout curtains, turning the temperature down, mouth taping,
things like that. But I have not gotten the pillow game totally figured out. Actually, I've never really used a chiropractor much, but I've been to 1 here locally a few times and he did a bunch of X-rays and he recommended that I he, he gave me one of those blocks, I forget the name of the block. A lot of the chiropractors use it. You know what it's called? It was like foam. It could be like an SOT block or something. A lot of lot of times they use different things to align the pelvis.
Was it for your pelvis or your neck? It was my neck. Yeah. So yeah, they used a block to try to elicit a curve. In the neck exactly. And he had me doing that and I was laying on it for like 20 minute increments and it felt fine. But like, I'm like, man, if I can find a way to do this while I sleep, it'd make everything easier because I don't ever have time to just lay down on the floor for 10 minutes or 20 minutes. And he was recommending not using a pillow of any type to
improve my neck curvature. I'm sure it's probably somewhat individualized, but I like having a pillow, you know, and I've been using the My Pillow brand pillow, which is pretty good. Like it. I'm a back sleeper. Like I don't typically sleep on my side. I don't ever sleep on my stomach. Like I'm always a back sleeper, don't move that much so I probably shouldn't have fixed my pillow game I would imagine. Yeah. Well, let's let's look at like a pillow, right.
So a pillow defined is a support for your head and anything, anytime you support something in the body or take any stress, in the absence of stress, the body will degenerate and deteriorate. So whenever you support something, you're going to make the body weaker. So if we put our head on a pillow and we support our head and let's say we support our neck at the same time, because even a lot of these cervical pillows are a little bit of an issue, you're going to weaken
the cervical spine. So in, in, you know, even before you get here, because the problem is, is, is it's not the pillow as much as it is the neurology not being able to accept the positioning that you're putting your body in. Because when you fall asleep, you're only in control with how you fall asleep. Once you fall asleep, your subconscious brain is in control of everything else.
So if you're not putting the body in alignment, if you're not, you know, structurally supporting your neck and, and, and allowing your, your, the weight of your head to hang off the back of the pillow, your arms and your feet aren't down by your side. And there are things that you're not doing correctly to set up for good quality sleep. You're going to move out of those positions within 20 minutes, and the average person will toss and turn 20 minutes a night. I mean 20 to 40 * a night.
It makes sense, makes total sense. So is there benefit to not? I mean like with shoes, I imagine some of this translate pretty well to footwear too. Because like you see all the people that are using you know, extreme cushioning or use a ton of arch support. They have the heel elevated shoes and platforms that pretty much breaks down their natural foot pattern.
Which is why I pretty much switched everything over to a wide toe box, 0 drop more or less minimalist shoe to kind of regain that strength in my natural arch. I'm assuming the same things pretty much happening with your spine as you sleep. Yeah, So I think we have to take a little bit of a step back in, understand that sleep is
neurological, right? You the reason why people then don't get good sleep is because the neurology can't handle the positionings that we we need people to sleep in. And what I mean by that is it's all in the brain. So when you're thinking, right, there's a specific nervous systems that that's at play. It's called your sympathetic nervous system, right? Your sympathetic is your, your, you know, your survive nervous system or your, you know,
survival nervous system. Then you have something that's called the parasympathetic nervous system, which is when you're remembering, which is, which is, you know, in the back portion of your brain. So as we are more stressed as a culture and we tend to have higher anxiety and we start to lose the structure of our cervical spine, we're going to start to lose our balance. As you start to lose your balance, you start to lean forward.
So your posture, when your posture is forward or you lose the curve in your neck, getting your neck all the way back to where it needs to be at in sleep is very unsafe for the subconscious brain. So even if I put you into the perfect position that I want you to be in, if we don't retrain your neurology to accept that position and you will never ever be able to get good quality sleep.
And this is where the gap is missed between sleep specialists and the understanding of of the neurological aspect of potty posture. Gotcha. OK, OK, that makes sense. So how does one go about retraining the brain to accept that positioning? First thing you have to do is you have to either buy a wobble board, you know, work on putting your body let's say in an upright straight posture and then start to work on balance in order to build a specific portion of your brain called
your vermis. And once you're able to build that vermis and that vermis, it strengthens with improving balance. So as you're able to do that, you're going to notice that there's another portion of your brain called the prefrontal cortex, which is where all your executive functioning is, which is where where people where
anxiety lives. So as in they're doing a lot of this research on ADHD is if you get somebody to really focus on their balance, then you're going to build the vermis and then you will build a stronger prefrontal cortex, which in in sense will create safety when you sleep at night. So the first step is to work on balance during the day and then we put you into a that sleeping position at night. Gotcha, gotcha. So the the wobble board is a practical way to do that throughout the day.
What about like just you? Because as you mentioned, we're all leaning forward-looking at our phones. We're on a computer. I spend the vast majority of my day in front of a computer. What can one do in like an office setting like that to kind of set themselves up for success as well? Yeah, you want to lift your monitor above your eye level, so you want to be looking up at
your monitor. You know your body, You, you want to she instead like like picture looking at a laptop when you're, you know, when it's way below your eyes and you're curled over in a, in a little ball looking at it versus lifting up the monitor, your body posture adjuster your, your, your head positioning. So if you're looking up, you're going to create an arch on your neck. If you look down, you're going to reinforce a a rounded out
cervical spine. Gotcha, Gotcha. Before we go in further, can you kind of just explain the adverse effects that are bound to come as a result of that irregular curvature in the spine far from what we are supposed to be from a curvature standpoint because it's supposed to be curved. Like when I when I got those initial X-rays, he was showing me what proper spine looks like versus what mine look like, what I'm assuming most people in today's age looks like.
And there's definitely some curvature there, which basically to my understanding improves the it's, it's there to offer kind of like a spring loaded system for the entire body. So like, if you don't have any curvature, any natural curvature, all of your joints are going to be taking a beating. Yeah, that's correct. So if you picture a spring when the the shock absorbers is actually the shape of the spring.
So you know if you press on a spring with with two hands, it bounces well when you the the structure of your spine is such where you have a curve in your neck and you have a curve in your lower back, though the curve in the neck and the lower back are basically half curves going one way. Then you have the curve in your mid back, which is the thoracic curve and that's going the opposite way.
So the two lumbar, the lumbar and the cervical curve equal the exact opposite of the full thoracic curve. Does that make sense? Yes it does. Yeah. So it's a, it's a exactly. It's an it's an S and, and when you walk, your body should spring. And once you, when you lose those curves in, in, in, in especially in the cervical spine, you affect the integrity of what's called the vagus nerve. And the vagus nerve controls immune system, digestive system in hormones.
So your your reproductive system. So it's 80% of all of the parasympathetic innervation to the entire body comes from that nerve at the base of your neck. So when you lose the cervical curve in your spine, you actually your health is significantly diminished. So a lot of people in our world look at their HRV and they try to maximize something that's called HRV, which is a reading of how the heart beats. Are you sympathetic dominant or are you balanced with the parasympathetic system?
Well, you will always be parasympathetic inhibited with loss of cervical curve. And is that inhibition to the vagus nerve a result of that lack of curvature pinching that nerve? And what's happening mechanistically? Yes, that's exactly what's
happening. It's through the carotid sheath is as you start to lose the curve in the neck, that carotid sheath gets pulled tight and there's three nerves in there, the glossopharyngeal, spinal accessory and then the vagus nerve and the spinal accessory nerve. That's why people always have those tight shoulders, because it innervates the the traps. Gotcha.
Yeah. And I imagine with you having looked at over 3500 X-rays, the vast majority of people in our current population likely have lost a significant degree of that natural curvature. Yeah, which is really ultimately the reason why I'm in the sleep industry wasn't to help people sleep. It was to fix their structure while they slept. And that's really kind of what makes us very unique is we have all of this this, this neurological, you know, health, functioning, Wellness, you know,
years of experience. And then we now couple that with all of our sleep experience. OK, so let's just for the listeners and for my own selfish curiosity here, using me as like a case study example, because I imagine I fit the criteria of a lot of the people, you know, spending quite a bit of time at a computer, looking at the phone, things of that nature. How would you structure a day-to-day for me?
So like we've got the monitor raised up higher, we've got a wobble board or something similar. What else would we implement? First thing I would do is we got to take it back to the basics. I would have you go to doctorsleepright.com, take an animal sleep avatar test. That animal sleep avatar test would identify your subconscious as one of three animals. You're either a gorilla, an armadillo or an ostrich, so. Hopefully I'm a gorilla that
sounds more savage for. Sure you would want I I could probably evaluate in two seconds. What position do you sleep in? Typically my back. OK, good. And then are you ambidextrous in any way? Yeah, I play pool with my left hand, interestingly. Yeah, so, so you would be more of a of of an armadillo, unfortunately. Oh man. Let's see, let's say you're a gorilla, Dilla. A gorilla Dilla. You're you're midway between, you're identifying. In both of them I'm transitioning.
You're in transition because what happens is the the cross dominant avatar requires pressure and safety to feel safe at night. So I don't know if this is you, but you know, you have a pillow on your chest. You'll hug you'll you know, you'll hug your blankets. You know you'll wear a sleep mask or you put something over your forehead. But, but really the ultimate, the ultimate thing that that people don't understand is that the, the basic needs of the subconscious brain is to feel
safe. And if and, and you can use pressure to be able to allow it to feel safe. And how much safety you require will depend on which animal sleep avatar you are. So that's kind of that, that's the that's step one. I would just understand where we are avatar wise. And then then we want to, you know, first we want to then a lie in your body when you sleep. And then the third is the subconscious brain.
We want, I mean the conscious brain, we want to be able to allow the conscious brain to get out of its own way. So once we see those three things are how we need to sleep better. Now let's go to our day-to-day life and let's see what can we do to 1st we want to identify which one of those three things are, are the toughest, one of our toughest problems. Is it setting the body up in alignment? Is it, you know, not being able to create safety or is it I can't get out of my own head,
which is the conscious brain? And then we set up each individual's lifestyle different based on where that where their avatar comes in it. Gotcha OK that makes sense. I feel like I definitely am not doing myself any favors by the majority of my time spent in front of a computer, but I do train on a regular basis. So I do have intense moments of physical activity where I am, you know, stretching out the spine and and also compressing it with certain, you know,
movements training wise. But I'm hopeful that that kind of offset some of the negative things I'm doing by sitting at a computer for so long. Yeah. So sitting at a computer. So you're when you are sitting at a computer, you're decreasing, you know, hours and hours and hours and hours of nutrition up into the brain. So that nutrition up into the brain is called proprioception. So it's, it's balance, it's movement, right? Movement is ultimately what the body wants.
So if you can offset that with training, then that's, that's not, that's not an issue. You're not going to offset the degenerative effects that are happening at the spine by training. You need to do that by retraining the brain by working on your balance. Gotcha. And the the best way to do that is via the wobble born during daylight. Hours we we have done we have done different things.
We've put people on slack lines. We have, you know, if you're a surfer, you're good, right, So you can do different sports that challenge your balance. I you know, I mountain bike. So so I do a lot of like track stance is what they call. I just put my brakes on and just balance on my bike without putting my feet on the ground right. So the more that you challenge your balance on a daily basis, the Betty you're going to be able to sleep at night.
I know it sounds weird because it doesn't, you know, one and one doesn't seem like it adds up to two, but it really does. Interesting, interesting. OK. So I will definitely work on the balance component. I do do a lot of, you know, unilateral movements where I am holding a balance position, but I could probably scale that up significantly and benefit from it as far as the sleep is concerned. What would I tangibly do differently from what I am currently?
All right, so first thing we do, we call the Triune of sleep is we first set the body up into a perfectly well, we call the corrective sleeping position. I mean feet straight out, right leg straight out, arms down by your side. When you use your covers, your hands and your feet are outside of the covers. You have your own set of covers. You don't share them. Because, you know, really one of the issues with sleep is our body can't temperature regulate
effectively. So we want to be able to allow our own body heat, our body to be able to control our own body heat, not a spouses or, or or, you know, a dogs and animals. So no sleeping with my wife. Well, you can sleep with your wife, but you have to use different covers. OK. I know it's so it's weird, but I'm you know, it's, it makes a big difference. And then you're not playing tug of war. That just so many benefits to having your own covers.
And then a second thing is, is you put yourself into that line position. You put a pillow under your neck and you allow the head to hang off of the back of the pillow not supported. And what that does is that gently, it's like a a weight off the end of a slinky, right? It it gently stretches a curve back into your neck because you know you're supporting the neck, but you're using the weight of the head to junk gently distract the neck.
And that causes that causes a change within the cervical curve. Is there a specific pillow that you recommend to do just then? Yeah, I recommend the neck nest. OK. What's the, what's the benefits and perks of that? How's it? How's it set apart from the others? So the neck Nest is designed to do just that. It's designed to go completely under your neck. And then as your head goes, I mean as your neck goes over the back of it, the entire pillow compresses.
So your head's only about 1/4 of an inch to 1/2 an inch off of the bed. And, and there's none of this, the foam in there that pushes back up into your neck that you know, that that causes, you know, pressure points when you're put trying to put the head into that sort of positioning because everything else on the market supports the head in the neck at the same time.
And you do not want to do that. OK, well I will definitely purchase a neck nest after this call so I can start implementing that into my sleep routine. What else can I do as far as sleep is concerned? So do you meditate? Kind of I've tried it on and off. I'm I try to take like moments of mindfulness, prayer, just relaxation. Like I tried to return to a parasympathetic state after training before I allow myself to eat my first meal, things like that.
But I don't really have a structured meditation practice per SE. OK, so actually we're, we're doing a 14 day sleep meditation challenge that we're just launching in next week. But whenever So the the the game with sleep is realizing that sleep is neurological and sleep is parasympathetic. And we we're so dominant in thinking in control during the day, but we never really understand how to switch off to our parasympathetic system, which is rest relaxed, give in right?
Well, in order to get better sleep, the the specific vitals that need to you need to stay conscious of is first breath, right? You want to slow your respiratory breath, understanding that you you fall asleep on your exhale. So it's a let the exhale out and then there's a pause at the end of that exhale. And as long as you start to slow your respiratory rate, well, what's going to follow your heart rate?
So then your heart rate comes down and then the next thing that's going to happen is your body core temperature's going to drop. So all three of those things need to be done together. And every time you do it, let's say you practice during the day, doing it at any portion of the day, do it with some sort of aromatherapy or some sort of oil underneath your nose. Because then what you're doing is you're attaching the subconscious brain to an
aromatherapy. And then by doing that, you're going to connect your subconscious to stimulate your parasympathetic nervous system when exposed to that scent. Then you can effectively start using that scent for sleep. Gotcha. OK, that makes total sense. All right, well, I will definitely do that. I do try and manipulate my breathing a little bit as I fall
asleep. I've got one of those fancy alarm clocks that wakes me up via, you know, a light getting brighter and brighter gradually as opposed to just this obnoxious blaring sound. And it's also got this dimming functionality at night as well. And like, like I've got it set to have some kind of like rhythmic wave audible sound that gets quieter and quieter. So I try to match my breathing to that good. I like it. But I will definitely try the aromatherapy.
I never thought about using that before, but that makes sense to kind of do that as you try to mindfully control your breathing and then just kind of work that in subconsciously as you sleep. Yeah, it's that perfect. That's, you know, those are the like the small little hacks that you can do, you know, that really, you know, start to work on, you know, drills. I guess it's like doing soccer. I was a soccer coach and we give the kids drills over there, drills over there and drills,
you know, different stations. But then by doing all those drills, when you bring it together in the game, when it's when it's game time, you're able to, you know, you know, play effectively. It's the same thing with sleep. You can do these specific things that give your body the best chance to get more restful sleep. Way better sleep. What about like oxygen flow as
you're sleeping? Like a lot of people are using C paps now because they've got some form of sleep apnea or a severe form of sleep apnea due to, you know, obesity or some other concern there. Are you a fan of C paps or is there a better alternative? Yeah, I mean they have a lot of jaw devices that are coming out now like, you know, Quiet Labs and Z, you know, all of these Z devices where they put in their mouth. The one thing with the C pap is
it forces air in and out, right? And it doesn't allow you to take that pause of that breath. So, you know, people are getting really good sleep with that. But I really think, you know, coming in, I mean, there's just so much more research coming out in the sleep industry. I think something better has to, you know, something, something better has to come, you know, from all of this money that's spent because, you know, ultimately it, we need to be able to control our breath to
get into deep restorative sleep. And you want to get into that deep restorative sleep within the first third of your sleep cycle. So keeping your mouth closed is critical in being able to do that. So a lot of people will melt tape. Some people use the devices in the mouth. I, I put the covers underneath my chin so it keeps them in a mouth shut. So, you know, just just different things like that, different techniques to be able to, you know, breathe effectively out your sinuses is
is really important. Yeah, that makes sense. Had again on the podcast a week or two ago and he was talking about the importance of spending more time in your breathing. Not breathing like not oxygenating, like there's benefit to be had if you have higher circulating CO2 because oxygen itself is oxidative. So having a CPAP where it's just constantly inundating you with a steady flow of oxygen may not be
optimal. Yeah, it you know, not my expertise, but I can definitely see there being a problem with it. Yeah. OK. So that's two of the three components, you know how you're working on balance, how you're improving your sleep, The third one being the the conscious effort. What? What does that entail? Well, you know, the conscious effort is ultimately we all like the control. So it's that's tends to be the one of the toughest things for people to work with. But ultimately, you cannot fall
asleep. Thinking can't happen because if you're thinking then the energies in the wrong portion of the brain, you need to remember yourself to sleep. So if you remember something in the past or create a sleep memory that you're going to fall asleep on and you fall asleep on that same memory over and over and over again, then you're going to be able to fall asleep quickly and stay asleep.
But if you're the type of person that wakes up and you, you're going through your To Do List or you're thinking about all sorts of stuff or you're getting mad in your sleep, or when you, you those that, that keeps you out of being able to get to sleep because we're thinking and we're becoming sympathetic dominant, we want to become parasympathetic dominant. So sleep is about letting go, you know, focus on that exhale of that breath and that holds and going to nothingness.
That's the toughest thing that people have that they, they just not, they don't allow themselves the space to be able to sleep well. Interesting. So you recommend having like a specific memory and that you kind of resort to whenever the the goal is to fall asleep and you just fixate on that memory until it just becomes until you drift off into nothingness. Yeah. And then and then once you put yourself on the memory, once you can put yourself on that same memory easier and easier and
easier. Interesting. I've never thought about that. That makes total sense. I'm definitely guilty of going through my To Do List thinking about the things for the next day. And if I've got, you know, this, this feedback loop in my mind, I've got to just get up and do it like it's a probably not the most conducive thing to sleep by any means. Yeah, it's tough. I get it. Yeah. What about are there any supplements that you recommend or use for sleep?
And a lot of people are heavy-handed with the melatonin. You have a take on that one or the other? Yeah, I, we did create a supplement. It's called Deep Sleep. But it, you know, what I put in a supplement isn't to knock somebody out, it's to calm them down. So I like things like GABA,
magnesium, L arginine. And then the reason why we call it deep sleep is in order for you to be able to get deep restorative sleep, which to me is the most, some of the most it's it's deep sleep and then it's REM sleep. You know, deep sleep is where your body recharges or you know, detoxifies and then REM sleep is where your mind detoxifies or, or, or defrags. So if you don't get good deep sleep, your body is not going to heal. If you don't get good REM sleep, you're going to wake up in a
brain fog. And one of the toughest things that I, I find with, with people is really getting into that good deep restorative sleep. So I like to use L arginine and different things that allow the body cool core temperature to
cool. And then if you can get somebody's core temperature to cool quickly, you stop them from drinking caffeine before noontime and you don't allow them to eat a lot before they go to bed, you're going to help a significant amount of people with the simple supplement that is just designed to allow people to relax and come.
Gotcha. On the topic of the thermal regulation, there's been several companies that have come out, or not several, but a handful of companies that have come out with these thermoregulating mattresses, like Chili Pad I think has 18 Sleep has one. Basically it's supposed to cool down the temperature of the bed to kind of match whatever your body is needing. Like if your body is getting hotter through the night, it's supposed to offset that automatically. Have you ever played around with
those by chance? I have them, I have one I so I like my body to determine on a natural basis what's right for it in temperature regulate. There's something in the body that's called allostatic load. This is what happens when when people are researching sleep, they're doing what just what's good for sleep. They're not doing what's good for the entire body. And allostatic load is basically a hierarchy of, of systems that come online and to be able to
keep you surviving. And one of the, the, the, the top of the, the food chain is body core temperature. So you can't allow your body core temperature to drop, let's say 3° and in before you have hypothermia. What I, you know, I'm just throwing out numbers. So your body temperature regulates your core temperature so tightly that it will bring all resources there to be able to maintain a healthy core temperature.
So if you're messing around with dropping the, the, the bed so cool that your body is fighting to stay warm, you're going to end up sacrificing energy for all of the systems it it. So I'm not a big fan. Now, let's say I exercise on a Tuesday night, which I do or I ate late. And a byproduct of, of, of metabolism is heat, right? Speed up metabolism through exercise or a byproduct of detoxification is heat or a byproduct of, of digestion or, or, or yeah, digesting food is heat.
And then you say, holy mackerel, I'm going to burn up in the first half of sleep. Then you can turn on one of those, but make sure it shuts off by a certain period of time because your body's it follows a circadian rhythm and you want to make sure you cool it to a certain time, let's say around 2:00 AM, and then just allow the body temperature to rise naturally after that. OK. Yeah, that makes complete sense for sure.
When when we're talking about optimizing deep and R.E.M., like I'm typically much higher in deep sleep than REM sleep. And I think part of it is because I wake up early and it seems as though most of the R.E.M. Sleep. Sleep cycle happens, you know, prior to waking if you allow yourself to to wake up naturally. Do you wake up with an alarm? Well, I've got that, that alarm that kind of gets brighter. So yeah, I do wake up with an alarm.
It's normally, you know, 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, depending on my schedule. So I'm probably just cutting my sleep stage. Oh yeah, no way. That's. Yeah, probably not, probably not optimal there, but I think I get into deep sleep and stay in deep sleep relatively. I mean, I'm using like an aura ring and my Garmin watch and it's saying that I'm usually getting an hour to an hour and a half deep sleep. But my REM sleep is lackluster for sure. Like it's usually pretty minimal.
What in your cross dominant your body requires REM sleep? Like to the point where if you don't get REM sleep, you're going to feel you're going to be in brain fog all day long. All right, so I think I need to just sleep longer or sleep later I guess. Well, well, what time do you go to bed? I usually go to bed around 9 or 10 and then wake up at 4 typically.
Which is so 9 and 10. That's why you're getting good deep sleep because that's naturally a circadian rhythm is going to get your deep sleep in the first third of your sleep cycle. Yeah, you're sacrificing R.E.M. and and you're going to have more anxiety. You're going to end up getting brain fog. You're going to end up, I don't know if you have it now, but a
digestion issue. You probably are you right-handed, probably are prone to sprain that right ankle and your rotation in your neck is going to be less to the left side. None of that sounds good. When you turn it just you know, because what what happens is, is when you get that brain fog, your body is going to fall typically to the side of a handedness and an old sprained ankle, which is is typically where the cross dominant usually would sprain the ankle to the side of handedness.
Yeah, I definitely want to avoid that. So I will switch some things around there. Kind of random, but what about inversion tables? Like, have you like as a chiropractor? Do you have a stance on inversion tables at all? Yeah, if if you have, if you're trying to work on a disc and the disc is dehydrated, the disc dehydrates because of lack of movement due to scar tissue formation. Degeneration is not normal. Degeneration happens because it's adaptation to lack of movement.
That lack of movement happens when there's scar tissue in the joint, typically due to either an injury or breakdown in these the the the curve structures, which then have the body deposit more scar tissue. So the body, first thing the body does says if you're not going to use a joint, you're going to lose it. So it pulls the fluid out of the joint. Now let's say you're starting to get adjusted. That adjustment starts to create
instability. That instability is going to respond by bringing fluid back into the joint. Then the joint will start to rebuild. There will be a point that that that disc is not going to be able to pull the fluid back. There's a limitation to the amount of of distraction that can happen with the inflammation. So if you then get yourself an inversion table and then in a sense pull the disks apart, it's like pulling a Jelly doughnut apart.
The material will start to pull back in, so it will pull fluid back into the disk. So to make a long answer short, yes I like inversion table. OK, that makes that makes sense. I've never seen it or heard it broken down like that because my my thinking is I'm constantly compressing my spine via, you know, heavy squats and deadlifts and things of that nature.
So offsetting that via an inversion table or like those monkey boots or you just simply hang inverted, something of that nature on a somewhat regular basis, I feel like could potentially be beneficial for me. Yeah, How old are you? I'll. Be 33 in a few weeks. Yeah. So your your joints would more than likely be able to take that
amount of distraction. The oldest somebody is on a regular inversion table because then instead of doing the monkey boots, which puts you straight up and down, you can go at like a 45° angle and it's gentler on the joints. Is there like a? Risk of overdoing that inversion table or should you probably ease into it? Yeah, you should ease into it. OK. Like 5 minutes a day every day? Or is it like a should you give
it 5 minutes a day every day? At 45° angle, or three minutes a day for the first week, then get to 5 minutes a day. If you can get to 5 minutes with no issues with the knees, ankles, and hips, then you can either do one or two things. Do the 5 minutes and then extend that another 5 minutes. Or you can. Flip up to a full upside down but maintain the 5 minutes. OK, gotcha. Interesting. All right, well, I've got an inversion table on my wish list now as well, along with that
neck nest pillow. This is good. This is good. What? What about the you you mentioned having some form of security as you sleep. Like I use an eye mask for blackout, you know, I don't want any light coming in, is there? And it's also good for your avatar. Because you, it creates safety because of the pressure against your eyes, stimulates your parasympathetic nervous system. So that's all fine. And Danny, I can keep that.
Up then Yep, keep that. There and then just put those covers close on and up underneath your chin so your mouth doesn't open. OK, I do do the mouth taping. So I'll take my my lips shut before I go to sleep, but kind of hedge against that as well. Good. Sweet, sweet. Well, I've got a. Hit List of things. How long does it typically take? I'm assuming the longer they've gone with, you know, these issues that the longer it takes to correct course.
But generally speaking, how long does it take for people to notice corrective improvements? Corrective improvements can come within months. You know, sleep can improve within two nights. I've I've seen, you know, people once they start to put their body into this corrective sleeping position, it's a game changer. But then others, you're right. The older they are, the more ingrained the neurological dysfunction is or imbalances, the more you have to work on your balance so that your neck
can even get back there. A lot of times you'll know if you fall asleep on your back and then you feel like you're falling off a Cliff, That's because your body does not feel safe with your neck back into extension. So then you can start to do, you know, just like doing. It's the opposite of the inversion table. So instead of going flat on your back, you can get a body wedge pillow and then you can sleep slightly elevated before you go flat on your back. OK, that makes sense.
Got you. And then when, when people are are, you know, recognizing that there's an issue and they need to change course, what what is often times the the main catalyst for them realizing there's an issue at hand? Is it more so than digestive implications? Is it more so just the the grogginess upon waking the following daylight? What is? What is the typical avatar there? Well, specifically, really, I think it depends on how they
come into my world, right? If they if they came in private practice, most of its dysfunction, it's autoimmune issues. So usually they got, they got long haul COVID or they, you know, they got, you know, they had that they've had a cold for three months and now they have Vertigo. They can't get rid of the Vertigo or there's dysfunction within chronic fatigue or they
can't get pregnant. So we see a lot of immuno dysfunctional or or nervous systems that are really out of balance and right away 90% of the time most of that's a sleeping problem. People are chronically fatigued, chronic allergies or anytime there's something chronic, typically it's related to nervous system dysfunction due to loss of curve and then a lot and them not being able to get good deep restorative sleep. But we also work with a lot with
athletes. So athletes that have a lot of like knee pain or hip pain or, or you know, the shoulder dysfunction, you give me a side sleep, I'm going to give you a shoulder problem. And because you're going to end up, you know, your body posture adjust the head position, but the the tissue adjust based on the stresses applied over a period of time. That's Wolf's law. So if you sleep on that shoulder for a for a long period of time, you're going to end up getting shoulder pain.
So that so depending on what somebody, everybody's why is different or you know, but if the Y is big enough, the what doesn't matter. So when people come to me, I, I, I, I don't wish problems on anybody, but I would never be a back sleeper if I didn't hurt. He ate my disk. I loved sleeping on my side, but now I would never be able to. Now I'm so happy being in the position I am because I'll fall asleep on my back and I'll stay on my back and I won't toss and turn at all. I don't turn.
You could put a glass of water on my chest and will still be there. But if my Y wasn't big enough to cause change then it would just still be the same sleeper. Yeah, no, it makes total sense. You mentioned Vertigo. My wife gets Vertigo from time to time and she was told it was the crystalline structures in her ears. Is there any truth to that? Well, most of the time the issue with the Vertigo is to to the muscle in the ears called the
tensile V lipalatine muscle. That muscle isn't working correctly. So when there's any fluid that happens either due to some allergy or due to getting a cold or, or or pressure changes in the in the atmosphere, the the air doesn't drain, the fluid builds up and it doesn't allow, let's say one side drains better than the other and it can throw the body off, especially on your side.
So most of the time it's underlying dysfunction with cervical dysfunction, which is typically if she has Vertigo, she has some sort of digestion issue, immune system issue, or hormonal imbalance that's associated with Atlas lateralization, which probably was there since she was a kid. Yeah, she used to have. All kinds of digestive issues like gastroparesis, slow trends and all that stuff. That's why she that was her motivation for going keto, to
kind of improve that. She also sleeps on her side, which probably accentuates that even more. Yeah, and then she probably had ear. Infections when she was a kid and those issues, it just, it's just a different manifestation of the same problem. So I need to get her a neck. Nest too. You know, it's what? But what really should be
empowering is what I know. I use all these words and, you know, dysfunctions and stuff, but you have control out of all this because all this is created and you know, it's it's been created with our lifestyle and our body is a product of our
daily rituals. So if you recognize that you have some dysfunction, you think it could be, you know, based on if any of this makes sense, that the good thing is, is you only need to fall asleep in a specific position and then create safety for the subconscious brain. And once you fall asleep, don't worry about it because the subconscious brain is going to take over anyways. So the only lifestyle habit is to fall asleep, let's say with a
neck nest underneath your neck. And then don't worry about anything else and do that as the only lifestyle habit you have to change and you're going to see a transformation after just a few months. Well, I'm all about doing. Things that I feel I'm accomplishing something tangible with, basically just weaving it into my current habits and routines. So I typically sleep every day.
So if I can weave something into that that takes very minimal effort then and reap the benefits from it, then I'm. I'm sold on that for sure. Yeah. That's great. Awesome. Well, Doctor Martoni, I. Truly appreciate the insight and the expertise. I will definitely work on getting my REM sleep dialed in. I'll have my wife start sleeping on her back as well and we'll get things optimized.
So I really appreciate what where do people go to find out more about you and just dive deeper into your work? Yeah, they can. Go to on Instagram. It's DRSLEEPRIGHT. But really what they can do is they can go to doctorsleeprite.com, DRSLEEPRIGHT and take your sleep animal avatar test, See what animal you are. Then at the end of the avatar test, you'll get a webinar of me explaining what you can do specifically for your avatar to be able to get way better sleep.
Awesome. And I'm a gorilla, Dillo. Based on based on just talking to you, yes, Awesome, awesome. Well. Appreciate it, man. I really do appreciate the insights. I will spread the word. There's everything I can do to help you in any way. Just let me know. All right. Thanks and. Just by the way, for a thank you for me being on your show, we'll be sending you out a neck nest. So just get me your address. Oh for sure, I will definitely shoot.
That over to you and I will most definitely put it to you as soon as I get it. I appreciate it. All right, no problem. Take care, good Sir all. Right. Take care. Bye.