Knees Over Toes with David Jordan

Well, hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes Quito service.com. Today, I've got special guest, David Jordan on the podcast, he and I got introduced via my newsletter. He messaged me, it was talking about the atg program for developing a better knee Health, been Patrick program. These overtones guy and he was just talking to me about how the

benefits he's experienced from. It just totally transformed his his training Endeavors so he and I get into deep conversation there on the newsletter and I'm like, man, I just got to get you in the podcast with Ivan to training, without any nutrition. We'll just see what all we can learn. So that's exactly what we did. I thoroughly enjoy the

conversation. I've got no doubt that you will take something from it. So without further Ado, sit back relax and do a podcast with David Jordan and we are lab. David, how are you men in fantastic? Are you up? I'm good, but I'm good. So we get in contact because I'd put on a Loser talking about knees over toes, been Patrick program and you responded back and said you've been doing it for like close to two years now. Right? About three, or about three and a half years now. Nice, nice.

And you saw, you've seen tremendous benefit from it. I've been doing it for like four weeks, maybe six weeks, and I've noticed a benefit, but we started kind of going down the rabbit hole about, you know, reverse Nordic curls and all kinds of other stuff. So, I'm kind of curious to pick your brain, man. Like what made you dive into that program? The first place where you hurt having some, some knee issues that we're trying to get

resolved. Yeah, so I've been lifting, I've been a natural body butter for about 16 years. I don't really compete. I competed once when I was 19 but over the years it kind of beat me up a little bit and I reached a point where I was trying to do, you know the Avro ler where you're on your knees and you need to just roll out the Ab Roller and I couldn't even do it, because I was in so much knee pain and I didn't even realize it, it just kind of

crap. Buy me one day and I just went in search of solutions and I tried essentially everything you could do just building it on top of a normal. What? I consider a fairly traditional bodybuilding approach to training legs, and nothing ever came. Close to alleviating my knee pain until I dove into just doing the atg program verbatim. Exactly the way that been lays it out in his program, where you Do the 12 weeks, 20, you do the 12 weeks of day.

That's when you do the 12 weeks of Standards. I went from being in constant knee pain, where I was just always feeling some nag or pull in either of my knees to the point now, where I could just get on the floor cold and without reverse nordics with zero pain at all, and it's just

Nine Dead difference. Now, I'd recommend anybody, that's on the fence about trying H TG Sponsored and paid paid for Ben. Doesn't pay me to say this, but it is, it has really changed my life and it's helped the lives of a lot of people that I've known and recommended it to.

It is just it builds the foundation of the hardware that we don't typically think of as bodybuilders, the hip flexor the rotator cuff, the quadratus, lumborum, the groin, all these things that we never in traditional bodybuilding, Think about, but they do play a huge role in our overall Health and Longevity. So, just building those up through the foundation of atg. Is this something that I just can't recommend enough? What do you think the initial

pain came from that? Do you think that's Amplified as a result of the bodybuilding training that you've been doing? Or do you think it's just simply wear and tear as you've gotten older? Like what do you think is the driver for? Pain need for there to be an 80 g program in the first place. I think it comes from a focus on the short range of exercises and with zero little 20 focus on

long-range exercises. So lot of short-range exercises emphasize muscular growth like a half squat, essentially where you can load it up pretty well and you don't necessarily have to go A full depth, but and that can build your glutes. It'll build your hamstrings a little bit. It'll build your quads, right? Just a traditional parallel squat that that will work to build muscle.

But what that doesn't do, is work your knee through the full range of motion, and give you all the benefits that are listed from something like that. Along with a really, really strong emphasis on hamstring work and CAD work and strengthen Your see once you incorporate, that's the biggest thing that a traditional bodybuilding program is missing, is that it does not have enough emphasis on? Well, these mind didn't because my hamstrings were little before doing atg.

So just another side note, is you'll get tremendous hamstring growth from it. But the the hamstring emphasis where you doing a lot of stiff, legged, deadlifts, you know, a lot of calves work and a lot of training your feet through the sled work. It's just it just night and day. What it does for, for your joints. Whereas traditional bodybuilding training. Sure your muscles will get bigger.

I didn't have small legs for bodybuilding when I started her, say, I'm 64. So my legs aren't huge by any stretch of the imagination. I only weigh 210 pounds. But that's just some, some context there is. It's just, it's not. Not. Necessarily the fault of the bodybuilding, it was more the fact that I wasn't incorporating all these other essential exercises that are foundationally covered.

If you just do the bare minimum of the atg program, it'll cover all those foundational basis for you without you having to worry about it, like a supplement to your bodybuilding training. That just covers your longevity for your knees and your lower back. Yeah. I feel like if you look at bodybuilding especially but Also just everyday life for most people. There they're activating the extension portion of the range of motion within the knee, on a regular basis either body.

But only got like the quad extensions and your work on the extension range for the knee there. But there's very little work on knee flexion per se. And I think it's just it seemed like the pain is Amplified as a result of an imbalance more so than anything.

I agree and they did. You program has a lot of emphasis on unilateral movements to help fix any potential issues from having one side, be more dominant than the other key example of that is the atg split squat, which is the kind of the one that you'll see, if you see an advertisement for the program, or if you see a picture of Ben, oftentimes you'll see him sitting in the bottom of a split Squat and there's a very good reason for that. That movement alone opens up

your hip flexors in a way. That no amount of yoga is going to get you to be able to do the kind of things that Ben does where you can. You can just break down and do a split squat, immediately from Court, not a split squat AI into front splits immediately after dunking, just because of the his ability to work through these foundational movements that he's put in this program, in such a strategic way that they just

build out everything you need. Need to not only have and build that strength but also to get all that flexibility and that flexibility in the way that they worded it. Bulletproof your body. And I truly, and I've seen it firsthand, it's just the things that it does to strengthen your knees and your back, and just your body in general, just by following the program, as it is from, its, you know, base form without needing to deviate much at all. It's just it's life-changing. Yeah, I agree.

I've only been doing like, said for a few weeks, but I'm beginning to recognize that our, your knees crunchy, like, are they noise that I've noticed that when I'm doing like, the Patrick step or the poliquin step up like my knees? Just pop with every single repetition, it doesn't hurt but they're like incredibly noisy. Yes, that that is called crepitus and crepitus does not necessarily indicate an issue with your knees at all. I still have that significantly

as well. For example, if If I go into a full atg squat on a slant board, so you're standing on the slant board facing downward and the slant is at about a 45 degree angle and you're squatting on that asked to grasp, where essentially your ass is almost touching your heels. When you have you near the very, very bottom of the squat. Not not what you see typically in a gym but where your you're fully ass to Grass squatting on a slant board.

Every single time I get in the bottom of that movement, I have that same Thing where I just get pretty loud crepitus. If I don't have my headphones on, I can hear every little Crunch and Munch, but it does not, it goes away a little bit.

But it once again, it is not an indicator of having bad knees, it's just part of what your knees do and the more that you do it it's going to get a little bit better but to say it's going to go away entirely is not the case and it doesn't necessarily need to go away because I'm at a point now where I feel like I've successfully you know, Air quotes bulletproof my knees from where they were before but I still have pretty loud crepitus.

Yeah, okay. So that's like saying it's not that my niece have hurt but like the noise itself, doesn't seem to correlate it all with the pain. So I'm not really worried about the, the noise per se when it comes to the the program. So I got the atg a, I've been going through that but I must have, I'm really bad at reading directions. I just kind of, like, look at my picture. This is this is saying the

truth, everything in life. When I get like, When we got our crib for the baby, I didn't read the directions. I just looked at the picture and went, that's kind of what I've been doing with this program. But you mentioned that each one of these is supposed to be 12 weeks. I think I did the first one for four weeks, then moved on to the second one. So I guess each one is supposed

to be 12 weeks. Yes, I would recommend that you do the full 12 weeks and the reason for this is there is a good reason for this Rob. And it's because you're not just Building muscle muscle builds pretty quickly, but you're building the ligament strength. So, for example, hathor

bjornsen. He just pulled his, you just tore his Peck and he'll probably never be able to achieve his goal of being, you know, you said, originally set out to be one of the best power lifters in the world in the last year. And he just went straight into trying to bench press, I think

it was bench pressing around. 550 pounds at a me and he tours Peck heat or spec because he hadn't been building up his foundation of power lifting over the years and, you know, getting all the ligament strength that's needed from that. It's a similar example to Jumping straight into reverse nordiques. You don't want to jump straight into reverse nordics, that are on the standard program because you need to build the foundational.

Ligament strength that happens through doing the 12 weeks of 0 to 12 weeks. 0 will give you the ligament strength for the 12 weeks of dents in the 12 weeks of dance will give you the strength that you need for the 12 weeks of standard. And then once you get in standard, then you can essentially stay there. But you do need to grind out those first 24 weeks, at least in order to build that foundational, that foundational ligament strength. It's not something that you want to rush.

Yeah, I don't recommend, I recommend that you would stay with the program as its intended. Yeah, I'm a car. As it's written, that makes sense. And I honestly like, I like the zero, it's pretty simple. I mean like all the movements, like, I could totally see how somebody that's never picked up a weight, a day in their life about. Okay. Yeah, this is a little challenging and some of the movements were little bit chant of the first time, I didn't know the split squats again.

I wasn't reading the directions. So I just did sets of 25 reps instead of 5 sets of 5 reps, which is quite a bit more challenging. But I'm going to start reading the directions of I promise you, I'll do the 12 weeks of dance and then I saw that you recently came out with Mm like a back program to so he's got like a 04 back Mobility as well. So a note to that on my search of atg or me, finding atg was from back pain as well and I work in it.

So I spend eight hours a day in a chair at least I did before I, you know, changed my entire workspace ergonomics. But that aside I there at one point in my life I was able to I was focusing. You moron like a 531 boring, but big program, where you it emphasizes squat bench and

deadlift. And I was getting to the point where I was Della thing around 500 pounds and at that point, I had tweaked my back a little bit, nothing severe, but it did cause some recurring sciatica over about a year span. I do remember spending, you know, maybe a month or so, you know, sleeping on the floor, trying to alleviate the pain, doing everything that I could adjusting my bed. Situation, any way you could possibly think of and it never

really alleviate the pain. But what did alleviate the pain is doing atg. Just the way that it's written and that new ACG back emphasizing program is essentially the same thing as doing a Gigi, just from the start and doing the entire program, but you're adding a couple key items to it, such as the Trap three raise and off the top of my head, I can't recall the other. There's He's a kind of like a rear delt that you do forgot

what that exercise was called. But there are some additional exercises that are added into it. That I would recommend that you incorporate into your overall approach of atg, but bare minimum just doing 80 g. As it's written building up that foot strength and that cab strength and that hamstring strength and just overall 10 in strength. You'll be amazed at how much strengthen your big toe impacts your lower. Back. Yeah, not believe it, man.

I mean, when I have a totally swamped at all my Footwear to try and improve overall foot strength and Mobility, like I was using my feeder Jack. That man, I used to run in cowboy boots. I was proud of the fact that I didn't own a pair of tennis shoes, so I would run five miles away in cowboy boots and that was when I was growing up, that probably screwed me up and then it's just been downhill since

then. But I've since removed all of the Footwear in my closet, that was not zero drop wide toe box. Now, My own is either an Ultra Shoe, a Vivo shoe or limbs shoe. Even my dress shoes are zero drop but I feel like that that's helped tremendously. Like the limbs is by far the most comfortable Footwear I've ever put on my feet and I don't

have near as much pain. And I think it's because by I saw a really good graphic with this, but when you look at a structural Bridge, like, I'd like an arch bridge that bridge is able to maintain that rigidity because of that Arch. Formats like your foot, your entire skeletal structure built from the ground up. Like if you have that Arch strength, everything else is going to be more resilience.

But the way that Arch is strengthened is because the front and back portion are solid their fixed. And then you've got, you know, that Arch, which is kind of compounds on one another. When you look at modern-day Footwear that has, you know, arch support. It's basically removing the need for that natural Arch to be strong, and it just causes everything to kind of break down from there, basically. Lee your Center. Yeah, you should be able to maintain that Arch just from the

strength of your feet. And the only reason that modern day people are not able to do that is because, like you said all the cushion in the shoe. It's just absolutely unnecessary. Breaking it down to minimum Footwear, Vivo Barefoot, feel grounds. Limbs, like you said, that is just, that alone is a game changer, but you do have to be careful if you're listening and you've never done that before. And you in If you suffer from back pain, you do need to ease your way into those things.

You don't want to just buy a pair of them and use them for running. For example, you could really hurt yourself, you need to ease yourself in it. Took me a couple years I've been using barefoot shoes exclusively for about three years now. They actually have some that

aren't ugly. If you look at Brands like feel grounds, for example, they've got a lot of stylish shoes that you really can't tell are Barefoot, but you Definitely wear them out on dates and if you just get the you know the bare wire the bear black leather, look no one's going to be able to tell the difference and they're really Sleek shoes but they have that wide toe box that allows you to spread out your toes and so your toes just should not be cramped up.

It's it's horrendous to see how these people wearing Jordans and you know that in the gym when you just know that they're all their toes are just being cramped. My shoes, they're not able to spread out and that they can't make contact with the ground and they're just missing that opportunity to strengthen that another note to Rob. If you haven't ever considered this for your own Barefoot Journey, they make toe spacers a brand that I highly recommend. I'm actually wearing them right now.

I'm in the office, but I just wear them as much as I can. I have for the past couple of years, they've made a significant difference is correct toes. Correctos maystow spacers that are very pliable, the plastic. I just, I've tried all kinds of toe spacers, but these ones are just so comfortable. You can wear them all day, you can walk in them, you can run in them and they just passively help. Spread your toes with in you just put put socks over them and then you wear them in your

barefoot shoes. They passively stretch out your the space between your toes. So, Your your gate gets fixed to where it should no more naturally. Be it straightens out all your toes because you're totally your toes. Should be pretty straightforward. When you when you stand, when you stand, you your toe, either your big toe or your second so should be the ones pointing forward.

If you're standing straight at attention, it shouldn't be like a lot of these people that you see walking duck-footed, because they just have such weak fee and they haven't Strengthen them ever. Yeah, I have it. The correct toes. Brent I have tried several of these ones and then the correctos definitely feels pretty solid. There's another one, but I forget the name of it. It's blue. But I really like that one as well. And I tried to put them on like, I would try and sleep with them.

But then my after about like four or five hours of sleeping with my feet, like the circulation and start sucking, so I wake up in the night because my toes are throbbing.

And I pull them off, but I've read or I've heard I think I had a podcast on it with the podiatrist and she was saying that in order for For those to really work, you almost have to wear them, you know, like throughout the day as you're putting pressure on your feet, otherwise you're not giving your feet any reason to conform to that space, you know, using those toe spacers. I agree with that. I worked my way into them through walking.

Yeah. Walking is huge before I forget to mention when it comes to walking, this is the side tangent. If anyone listening Every I mean, as you go throughout your meals throughout the day, there's almost no better habit, then to have ten minute walks. So this is that's a perfect time to have you here. Toto, spacers and you're barefoot shoes on after you eat, whenever you have a meal, you should just go out a 10 minute

walk. The IT stand, efforting always preaching is for it. It was, you know, I believe one of the smartest guys in our industry. He's always huge on 10-minute walks after you eat, and I've been practicing that consistently in my own routine for the past. Three or four years, take that 10 minute walk and focus on only breathing through your nose. Do not allow yourself to breathe through your mouth.

It'll be slow at first, but you'll get better and better at breathing through your nose and the benefits that you'll get from from the insulin response from your food because you took that time and walk after and then breathing through your nose so that you're relaxing, it's just it really changes your life. And in significant ways if you be Isn't with it. Yeah, no, I totally agree, man. I've been trying to really focus on nasal breathing. I've been mouth taping as I sleep.

I've tried to to, you know, also train only breathing nasally but that is rough man, like doing doing sets of like heavy deadlifts and only breathing through your nose is near impossible for me. Like, I wind up breaking and just inhaling through my mouth at some point. Pretty early on in the world. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, how long have you been nasal breathing on your walking though? On your walking in your cardio?

I mean pretty and wow man I think I made I think I realized the significance of nasal breathing probably about two years ago. So I've been consistently mouth taping as I sleep since then. And I mean pretty much for about two years now. So, you know, I'm pretty conscious of it. But with the do you have a deviated septum? Not that I'm aware of no. Okay. Well, I when you break from the nasal breathing during her training our, how many reps are we to? Are you doing like three reps

and that set? No, no, it's usually usually north of eight reps. Like sometimes usually operating like 8 to 12 rep ranges. Okay. I just asked because my training partner and I both trained exclusively through nasal breathing for traditional bodybuilding training. And we never break to mouth breathing, except once or twice. If we're trying to hack squat, like four plates and trying to do 15 reps with something stupid like that. Then we one of us might break the. We always give each other a

really hard time if we do that. Come on, calm. Shut up. Kinds of meat. That's what I need man. I've seen that a training partner. That's equally as a fixated on breathing nasally that then give me call me and give me shit. And then I probably wouldn't wouldn't break as easy. Well, when you come over, here knows every, I would love to train with you. Sometime you come in here November 4th to Auburn Washington, right? Yes. So I'll be in Washington a few

times this year. I'll be competing in October in Washington and likely in November as well. I think the November shows mid-october to mid-november, though. In November, I looked up the, the Auburn show, the natural classic in. 2023 is November 3rd and 4th from what I looked up earlier, I could be wrong, I'm doing the Washington State natural in. I forget, what is the change locations I believe?

But that's the 14th of October. And then I believe, worlds is in just outside of Seattle, I think. And that's the 15 16th of November. I want to say, I don't remember after, okay? But they're both. I wrote those down again. Yeah, but yeah, we'll have to link up. When you come up here and we'll try and some and maybe after, you know, celebrate your wins. Hey, cam an Absolution, I'd be all about that. Laughter, that November. So, I'm going to be ready to slam some food, man.

We can find like a Brazilian Steakhouse or something there. Oh, I know the perfect one, I just went there for Easter. Novello Steakhouse will hit that up. All right, nice. I like it. I like it. I like five pounds of meat. It there can't go. Wrong at a Brazilian steakhouse Man 1. That's one thing I've noticed post competition you know in the past or are you a bunch of carbs? Post-show, I would just like,

feel like terrible, man. I'd put on so much water weight overnight and it just was not good with going to a Brazilian Steakhouse or something like that. Post-show, and just eating ungodly amounts of meat. I never felt poorly afterwards. Like I never really even gained that much water, right? Like that's the the easiest antidote to bypassing all the post-show, you know, downward

spiral. Yeah I haven't competed since I was 19 but I have gotten fairly lean and I can't agree more the that's a something I should have started with is you know you and your mission and your messages you've been getting out regarding Q or what gave me the courage to try keto for the first time about roughly two years ago now. And it's changed my life dramatically overcoming the initial dogma of. You need to have your fruits and vegetables that alone is such a game changer.

Because you can, you the human body can really thrive on just eating the essentials. You know, getting your whole foods from, you know, steak ground, beef eggs, like those three things alone. If you if you only We ate steak ground, beef and eggs. I know that's going to the extreme and I'm killing more. Do the carnivore fans here but you don't have to go that hard but just having that be the foundation of your diet in a bodybuilding sense, controlling

for your calories. That alone is such a huge leg up on the competition and it just personally, it could have changed my life for the better anymore. I just feel so healthy in my day-to-day life and I just know. Inflammation in my body. I just I can't recommend it enough, and if anyone's listening is on offense, then, please give more of a key to carnivore approaches.

Try. No, we don't have too many people listening that are probably not eating at least somewhat keto, but don't be afraid to cut out the fruits and vegetables on top of the key to like I was initially when I initially tried Quito, is trying to still make sure I was including as much fruits and vegetables as I could, and that really hindered my progress. Because once I cut those out, I just felt a million times better.

I don't know if you're still incorporating a little bit of fruits and vegetables in your diet. I'd imagine you are. No, not really man. Like I don't incorporate any fruit. I mean, once in a blue moon crystal will have some berries and then if she has bunch of berries, I should put heavy cream on it and not even a bunch of birds. I should get like a handful of berries. Like a really low glycemic Berry like a raspberry or something

like that. And she'll put heavy cream on it. I might have literally one raspberry and that's probably Every six months for me. So that's the extent of my food consumption and then my vegetable consumption is, you know, once not so much now and

prep. But on a day-to-day basis outside of prep, I may have, you know, one meal a week, may contain some brussels sprouts, some asparagus, some broccoli, if even that, like it's very, very minuscule and when I have it it's never like oh I really need this to feel better or perform better. It's just simply a change of texture and I like try to get fancy with my cooking. But I don't ever feel any inherent performance benefit from incorporating fruits and vegetables.

And more often than not, I feel more of a performance detriment, like my GI is affected, negatively, I feel more lethargic. I just don't feel any benefit from the fruits and vegetables. And I think most of the studies that look at, you know, benefits of including more fiber from vegetation and all of these studies those are often times done in a population that is consuming the standard American diet. So the fiber helps shunt The absorption of those crappy standard American diet foods.

And that makes sense to me. Like that that makes sense, but compared to a demographic that is not eating like that and it's eating a well formulated ketogenic a corner poor diets. I don't think those studies would stack up to point such a favor towards vegetation. I couldn't agree more. Yeah there's the often cite the the microbiome for the reason that you need fiber and I just don't I don't see it in my Anecdotal experience in the experience, working with others

and just and everything. I've listened to almost all of your bod cast or you bring on guests that are, you know, you've had some vegan doctors in here and there, you know, spouting their beliefs. And, you know, I've never been dogmatic necessarily although I guess you could kind of, say, I am now that I've tried all these different things. I've tried a vegan eating For six months and I was never weaker or felt more frail after trying something like that.

So, I've gone through the wringer, my cell phone on these, and I just couldn't agree cream or to that a question for you? Are you doing more of a old mad or two meals a day or approach now that you're dieting, so it all just depends on my total consumption. When I'm in the building phase, like my maintenance and takes run 3,000 calories when I'm in a building phase, that's a more aggressive. Like I'll typically not. Exceed 3,500 calories like beyond that. I just start putting on Sloppy.

Wait, so between 3000, 3500 as a maintenance, or building phase at that intake. I'm often times break it into two larger meals, or sometimes three meals throughout the day. That's ample, I think with two meals a day you're activating enough muscle protein synthesis with a high enough frequency to take advantage of all the benefits. They're in with a, I challenge you on that because I've eaten one meal a day for roughly six years now.

Yeah, and regardless of whether I'm trying to gain or lose, I generally prefer to just eat one meal. Even when I was eating carbs, before I started following a lot of what you preach before, I heard about, you know, Keo Savage. And in exploring keto, for myself. Yeah, I was eating one meal a day back then with carbs to and I was Finding success with that.

I certainly don't think there's any issue with eating one meal a day off, from a muscle protein synthesis standpoint, I don't think you're missing out on muscle protein synthesis by only eating. What? If you're consuming a protein, I think there may be some slight benefit to having more than one meal a day. But that doesn't mean that it's negating. The muscle protein synthesis that you're getting with just the one meal a day and sometimes I prefer omed to.

I don't think there's any there's a point of diminishing returns basically I don't think there's any need to consume six meals a day. I think that would honestly lead to more of a detriment in other regards like just continued, you know, glucose response for that. Feeding frequency for me when I'm in a deficit, usually, at my stats. Like, when I get Sub 2000 calories, that's definitely the

tail end of my cut. And at that point, I'll often times transition to a nomad because from a psychological standpoint, it's more satisfying for me to have one larger meal and then just be done with the food for the day and not be thinking about it, then to still have multiple smaller males. That never really satisfy me and keep me thinking about food and

that constant fix. Station of food is when oftentimes leads people to deviate find it unsustainable and, you know, just totally binge, which is what I'm trying to avoid. Yeah, well, I got a couple thoughts on that. My first thought is a lot of people listening, probably cringing at the thought of eating one meal a day. And I was obviously hesitant to try that when I first started about six years ago to, but if you've never tried it, I do. Commend.

If you listen, you never try to give it a shot, just make sure to take your 10 minute walk after because if not, you're going to feel a little lethargic. Regardless, if you're doing this on a ketogenic approach, if you have carbs as your fuel source it is, it makes life a lot easier. If you're a busy person, working a nine-to-five trying to bodybuilding the same time, being able to wake up train, eat once and then go work, your eight hours and then be done with the day.

Day. It just makes life so much easier for me personally, but I do see your point there up, especially if you're not used to. If you're in a bulk or if you just, you have a lot of calories in your diet that you need to get down. It can be more difficult. It did take me in quite a few years of weekly, skip loading, you remember? Skip loading from back in the day? Yeah, yeah. That that what, that's what built up, my personal ability, to eat a lot of calories on one.

Go is When I would diet well skip loading is named from the strainer. His name is Ken, skip Hill. He was my first and only ever bodybuilding trainer.

And I did an experiment with Ken Hill where he died, add me on nothing but a shitty carbs for lack of a better word where I was essentially, my only fuel source besides protein was high glycemic carbohydrates, like Pop-Tarts Rice Krispies Cereal all the worst things that you can think of for your long-term Health, where my only carb source and I dieted for about 10 weeks on those foods and then just using the traditional protein, powder and chicken breast and pretty lean protein

sources. I got pretty lean from doing that, but When you're dieting like that, you wait until you get to your lowest weight and then you would skip load on that day, that you reached a new low of your weight and Skip loading was just eating as many high glycemic carbohydrates as you can within a specific window. So you have two hours or you have three hours or 24 hours depending on how lean you've

got. So, as the dike progress that we would basically be binging more and more on carbohydrate and I know you have some experience with binging to to Rob A that kind of got me into wanting to binge and then my desire to binge kind of turned into me. Just making that part of my lifestyle where I just eat one meal a day. And you know, works as long as I keep keep my food contained, I

weigh my food every day. For the most part, my go-to is a pound of ground beef and 12 eggs, and then supplement that with, you know, some beef, jerky, pork rinds or you know kind of go intuitively after that. At yeah. And that makes sense man. Like you can't go wrong with ground beef and egg. That's pretty much the staple of my mind, attrition right now and prep, but honestly, even outside of prep.

Well, I'm going to prep like my food choices, don't really change at all, from what they are outside of prep. It just two quantities change and kind of how I distribute the macros, but it's the same foods which I think is also really good. Like, a lot of people that are in a prep, the often times sacrifice. So many of the foods that they used to love eating. They do love eating, and they just feel incredibly restrictive which makes Them that much more likely to deviate.

But like, for me, I eat all the same Foods whether I'm in or out. So I don't really ever feel like I'm missing out necessarily. Well, if you cook your ground beef in your eggs, if you do it and you go all out, like you get the griddle out and you cook the food, the way that food should be cooked, you get a nice, my yard reaction on your ground beef and then you don't overcook it and you scramble your eggs.

Greg's right? And you really do a good job of cooking that food for me. Personally that is my favorite food to eat if I had anything to choose especially the deeper that you get into this the more that you at least in my opinion the the deeper that I get into more of a keto carnivore type of approach. The more that I crave these Foods. Yeah. Yeah. That and I'll just mix it up with the seasoning component. Like I'll try a different type of salt or I just Get some of that.

Pluck, organ blend seasoning. That's super good. I'll just mix up the seasonings. I don't really use too many sauces, but I'll use, you know, certain oils. And then you start to appreciate those little Nuance changes so much more than you ever would have been able to.

Otherwise because like your palate changes, once you once you get things dialed in your very consistent with your intake, you're able to just have like you become hyper aware of all the other little tiny tweaks and changes that you can make Yeah, I can definitely relate on the palate. Especially I tried some What is it, Carnival carnivore kitchen catch up. Whereas this natural, catch up, with no added sugar. I tried Just a Little Squirts of that into my eggs. The other day.

It was the sweetest thing I've ever had a long time and I was just so shocked. Yeah. I was just so shocked that Hub. How sweet that could get. So do you do any vegetation? Are you hardcore strict carnivore? I'm pretty strict carnivore. Now I've even recently been cutting back on me. On the different seasonings and just sticking to Salt and Pepper recently just to kind of see what it does for my body and see how it reacts. And I feel fantastic.

I've never felt stronger. Yeah, I mean, I've just never felt better than just having a pretty strict carnivore approach. I'm just it's so It's so much against the natural Dogma or, you know, the Perpetual diet advice that our society has, you know, you know, you need to eat your fruits and vegetables, but just cutting them out as one of the best things that have ever done for myself.

As long as you have the sufficient quality food sources, propelling, you forward, then you don't need any of that stuff. No, I totally agree man with you. Do a nomad and training. How do you time that? Like when you typically When you

typically have in your meal. So what I'm doing right now is I get up at 4:30, I get to the gym, it opens at 5:00 train from 5 to 6, 15 6:30, I get home, I make my one meal a day, eat that, and then I go to work and that that's been worked well for me, but there have been periods in my life, where, you know, within the past couple years where I would wake up and train and then not eat, until you know, 4 or 5 p.m. I feel that that stresses your body at a little bit more.

It should you should try in my opinion to eat as close post workout as you can just for not necessarily because it's going to make that big of a difference. Physique wise. I don't think it did. I don't think waiting six or seven hours post workout to eat my one meal really made any difference on my training or my muscle gain or my fat loss at any point but just psychologically it's just so much less stress and easier on

the body. Body that have that food that just have that post-workout really helps a lot. Yeah, I can't quantify it better than that but it just makes you feel really good. Yeah, totally Green, Man. When I get deep into a deficit, I try and always have my meal within about a two-hour window of training usually within one hour and I feel like, you know, with the anti catabolic nature of ketones and how all that works.

I'm not really worried about Losing muscle per se but I feel like it's just cheap insurance to just have that meal and a relatively short window post training. Now that doesn't mean people have to rush off and have slept a protein shake it made the post workout or anything like that. Like I used to think but I think just simply having a meal with a protein and fat in the context of a deficit within two hours. Post training makes the most sense.

Yeah but that said to don't be afraid to have a longer break to have more quality. A food especially if it comes between, you know, needing to rush this. Have a protein shake versus waiting an hour or two to have a whole meal. I think the latter is a much better option for 99 percent of people assuming, you would still do that ladder if you end up not getting it at all.

Well, obviously, that's not going to be ideal and honestly, I don't ever think having a protein shake, I can isolate without a dietary fent in. Tandem is that beneficial either like Always recommend people having, you know, fat and protein in unison, supposed to just pure protein. I couldn't agree more. I think that's part of why I like oh, that's so much. It's because you're having all

of your carbs. Are you having any in all of your Macros out the same time and it just makes everything that you don't have to worry about spiking your insulin from just having a protein that mean not that. That would be a very big spike but if you create a huge Spike just by eating one meal all at once but that one spike is over then it's done with and then your body can Can just go back in there recovering and getting ready for the next day.

So, totally, this is the added benefit there that, I'd like to switch gears a little bit. Pick your brain about training, the have very unique approach to training. I don't know if you have, you heard of Doug, no lie, I have not enlighten me. So, Doug brignole E past about a year or two ago, but he was a bodybuilder that was gaining in

popularity pretty significantly. And he was on Mark As podcast a little bit before he passed away and Andrew Zaragoza started, you know, dive in really deep into his program and talking about on the podcast and all that and you know, and semen, Mark, they all kind of delve into some of his preachings.

But the key takeaway from Doug brignole E is that he emphasized that you really don't need more than one exercise per body part and he has participated Particular body exercises for each body part that he recommends. He's for some body parts. Like back of course, he's got multiple exercises because, you know, the back is so complex, you got the lads, you got the rhomboids, you got the traps, all of that, but that really resonated with me.

So I tried that myself. So, for the past couple years in my personal training, I generally only do one or two exercises per body. And focus on Progressive overload where I do six weeks of training and then have a deload. But during those six weeks of training, I make sure to note Tate every every working set what, the way it is, what the Reps are and over the six-week Period, start the weeks with two

reps in reserve. So I'm doing the set where I feel like I could do two more but I stopped at that point which is if you're a beginner training listening this that's a lot harder. To do than it sounds because you need to know you know where your true failure point is it takes a couple of years of practice to get there.

Once you do you start the mesocycle about to reps and Reserve you record the weight and then over the six weeks, you come back in the gym and you're repeat the same exercises over the same workouts over those six weeks and you can kind of gauge your your personally desired volume. This depending on what body part you're trying to make grow the most for me personally Since I don't compete, I train upper body essentially twice a week and legs once a week.

So you progress week after week every time you do the same exercises and you do this, you essentially do the same routine multiple times a week but you progress over the six weeks. So on if I did a bicep curl with 100 pounds on Monday and then I did it again on Thursday on Thursday. If I prepped it for 10 reps on Monday. I would try to wrap it for 11 reps on Thursday and then the next week I would try to do 13 reps or 12 reps, you know?

And then just over time over those six weeks, you're building the intensity that way and you're just recording this, you can just do it in the notes on your phone and just beat your numbers over the course of the six weeks. And then when you deload take 10 15 % off of all those numbers when you start the next mesocycle and then just rinse and repeat and focus on the same. Exercises for a while. Do not be afraid of for example doing just bicep curls for biceps with dumbbells like that.

That is alone can be a sufficient exercise. You don't need to switch to a ton of different exercises but the whole dogmatic approach of, you know, muscle confusion and all that is is really overlooking. The the general more important part, in my opinion of that Progressive overload and just focusing on getting better Better actually doing the movement. Yeah, I can totally get behind that notion.

So, like, when you're doing upper body twice a week, lower body, once a week, are you doing like, what is a typical day look like for number by today? For instance, how many different exercises across the board? So a typical day starts with it. Doing atg is my warmup. So, I always start with 10 minutes of sled, forward and back, every single time, that alone has been a huge game changer. And then doing the actual atg program as my warmup. So right now I've just been doing standards.

So you do 12 weeks, 2012 weeks of dense and then you the way that he's programmed is 12 weeks of Standards, but I just kept doing standards and I just do standards as my warm up. So I do the atg standards in the sled before my bodybuilding turning and then my bodybuilding training. I just super set everything. So today's workout for example, let's see today is Tuesday. Was pull-downs for lats, supersaturated with cable crunches for abs.

So, two body parts that don't interact with each other. So you in my opinion, if you're in the gym training, you should always be super setting instead of just sitting around and being on your phone. There's no reason for you to not train a different body part. There's no reason for you to not train abs while your lats are resting.

Yeah, right. So then one set of pullovers and then it goes, Into Super setting calves with rhomboids for the machine, row, and then Super setting bicep curls with tricep extensions on machine and that's it. How many sets of each exercise, how many sets of those pull Downs or rows or extensions? Are you done? So, only four sets of pull-downs, and then four sets of cable crutches and then one set of pullovers. So essentially for the major muscle groups for sets is really

the high. End of everything. So if I'm training chest, that's my only exception because it's my lagging body part. So, I'll train 8 sets on the high end of that, where four of those are from flies fly movement. For me, personally, is the pec deck and then five sets on a Hammer Strength, flat bench or those are my favorite chest exercises. So forceps, therefore sit there and then repeat that.

So that's eight sets there. And then another eight sets later in the week for six, In total sets over the week, focusing on Progressive overload, for the back. It's four sets four laps and four sets of rhomboids. So it's still 16 cents for back as well. So most of the major body parts are getting about 16 cents a week, but that can also progressively be overloaded as

well. If you start the mesocycle up three sets and you feel like that is something that you're not getting a whole lot of dead tissue damage from number one, just make sure Sure that you are focusing on a progressive overload, but you can feel free to add in another, you know, set or maybe even two depending on how advanced you are, but really most people especially if you're a natural trainer, you don't need nearly as many working sets as you think you do.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, I'm 100% agreement with the progressive overload more so than the muscle confusion is the the main driving force in growth. And when I'm doing my sets, like they're almost always four sets and less, I'm doing, you know, conventional deadlifts or squats or something like that. And I'm pyramiding up from a very low, starting weight. Like I'll start with 135 that will add 25 on each side and just keep going up until I'm doing four plates or so.

So I'll do more sets On those but most of my movements like my pull-downs, My Curls are all operating within like a four-set scheme. Yeah, the way I see it too. Is if you start and you're doing the movement. In a your bodybuilding if you are doing bodybuilding, if you're trying to make your muscle bigger and you are not weightlifting and just trying to get stronger. If your main focus is to get that muscle bigger and you're Contracting properly and working through the full range of motion

in any given exercise for sets. For working sets should be more than enough to to get it to the point where your by that Force set, you're almost 50 percent of the weight that you were when you started like for example, this morning I was doing 160. I was only doing 165 pounds on the pull down because doing 18 sets, full range of motion, getting a nice stretch, and a good contraction. At the bottom, going through the full range of motion. And I started the first set with

18 reps. Then I ended the last of the force that with only 13 reps. So, if like, what would doing a fifth set, really add to that at that point, I don't think it would add much of anything. Yeah, I agree. I kind of look at, you know, like when I'm going through and I'm doing, I also do a lot of 15, 12 10 eight so I'll do 4 sets. Starting with a lighter weight,

do 15 reps. That first set is mostly just to, you know, Force blood in their warm-up, the ligaments, one of the joints and then I get progressively heavier and little bit lower on the rep scheme. And if I that for set, I should barely be able to get eight reps. If not, you know, be reaching near failure at seven reps or so. But if I strive for that is the goal always focusing on the form. That kind of lets me know that I'm upping the ante so speak

each week. Yeah, the someone has made a huge difference in my life that I've recently discovered is this guy from Toronto, Canada. His name is Mike Van Wyck, he's got this, he's got a channel on YouTube called wicked training. He's actually a trainer, he trains Drake the rapper Drake, but he's this giant, 330-pound completely tatted guy and his

YouTube. I cannot recommend it enough. 44 form because I've always had a lacking chest but I've been training for 16, maybe even 17 years and I've never been able to get over having a lacking chest, but since I've started following his YouTube and following the way that he, he has a very very unique way of explaining how to train in any given body part that he outlines in all his YouTube videos. He's got videos for each individual body.

Part that I'd highly recommend if you have any lagging body parts that you check that out, even if you don't if you think you have a strong body part and you just want to see his opinion. He's a very opinionated person. He's always kind of talking shit about everything but the things that he says, and the strategies that he has to execute lifting our Far, and Beyond anything. I've ever seen on the internet.

I cannot recommend it enough, it's changed In the last six months, I've had more chest games personally from following his approach on how to do presses and flies. Then anything else that I've ever changed as far as you know, bulking or trying to do exercises and different ways.

Can't recommend that enough. And his channel is what he and what's it called its called wicked training which I believe is about Wyck Ed. His name, his name is Mike Van Wyck. Okay, I'll check him out for sure because I feel like my lagging body parts are my hamstrings and my my chest. Those are always my to weak points. And I've been growing in my

hamster and my chest. Both have grown quite a bit as of late and I've just been murdering them and I think I've also been doing like a full-body split for the past six months or so and I feel like my body's responded really favorably to that as well. Well once you dive deeper into atg and you get through building up the Strengthen zero which

what you're going to do, right? You're not going to keep skipping the remaining nice because I'm gonna go back to, I'm gonna go back to start week, 5 of 0, perfect. So once you finish that and then you get through 12 weeks of dense and then you begin just doing standards from then. On out the amount of hamstring growth that I have gotten. And for me, this is a really hard thing and I'm putting you'll understand this really well. I'm 64. And I'm a natural body builder.

So my legs are long. Fuck. But I had zero hamstrings when I started atg and now I've got a pretty good respectable for a natural body. Builders swoop of my hamstring almost exclusively from doing atg. And from building the full Nordic that I can rep out. Probably 25 full nordics the way

you know nice. It's hard to explain but you know just doing a full Nordic is something that Most people just can do unless you're like Tyree kill or, you know, or you've been just doing a Cheesy training, but that exercise alone, once you've built up the tendon strength to get there, I don't recommend starting there if you're listening and just want to grow your hamstrings, to do that because you'll probably destroy yourself because you need that tendon Foundation.

Otherwise you just you really going to hurt yourself. But once you have that and you maintain them, Through atg the amount of torsion and and stress that you can put on your hamstrings through, that one exercise is insane and then it also has a heavy emphasis in the program on Roman deadlifts just through barbell and through dumbbell. Yeah, essentially training hamstrings like four times a week through doing 80 g standings.

Well, I definitely like the all things posterior chain, if I like, that area does not get enough attention, especially people sitting at their desk all day long. Just it's just a very hazardous environment for proper posture, train strength, and development. So doing, you know, rdls doing hip thrusts, doing, deadlifts, doing things like that, that force that activation is key. The, the zero program that's literally the same movements every single week, every single

day for the 12 weeks, right? Because I think I got to week four or five, it was the exact same thing. And like I said, I didn't read the directions. So I assumed it was going to just continue to be the exact same thing. Threat 12 crew correct. Yeah. The you do the same exercises on the same days. Okay, cool, cool. So we Monday is always going to be extras a b and c and then next time you do Monday, it's going to be a b and c again and

they do that for 1200 weeks. There's not a whole lot of variation, and that's kind of what I'm recommending when it comes to the body building approach to because it clearly works, it just works. You don't need to complicate this people. Just overcomplicate all this Just keep it simple. Yeah, I don't like my training. I keep Super Simple, Man. Like people always ask me about what new training modality, I'm doing. But, I mean, I use the basics when it comes to the movements.

I mean, for I trade, in my own gym more often than not, and I just have the basics. I just have barbells dumbbells, and a super simple cable setup. Like, I don't have anything

fancy. I love going to gyms and experimenting and playing around all the fancy equipment, but all the growth that I've seen Been pretty much using the basic fundamentals and I feel like if you do that really, really well then you're going to see a lot more growth, you can be able to gauge how you're able to progressively overload those loads and I think that's where the benefit comes from anyways. Now I do like throwing in a little bit of variety just to keep things fun. Interesting.

And I can definitely feel how certain movements like speaking of hamstrings for instance I can go really heavy on you know, parking lot lunges and that Definitely has a lot of translation to laying hamstring curls but if I don't ever do laying hamstring curls and just focus on Parliament. Lunges, I still feel like I'm lacking with the laying hamstring curls and I like to be able to put some respectable weight on the, on the machine with those two, you know.

Yeah, one note to, when it comes to hamstrings, in particular, I've noticed that as I've gotten deeper into atg training and gotten stronger with exercises, like the full Nordic That I can, I just have built up inability to go more into an anterior pelvic tilt while I'm doing the RTL, and I can really just thrash the hamstrings better because I'm so flexible. Now, I could be cold and I can just take my palms.

And I'm 64, I can lock out my glutes in my Flex, my quads, I can Flex my quads and my glutes and I can still slap the floor because I'm so flexible from doing it. Gigi and I feel that that flexibility correlates into assuming your approach to exercise correctly, being able to work. The hamstrings are particular a lot better which is surprising and almost counterintuitive when you kind of think about it, but that's how it's really worked for me. Yeah, that makes total sense,

man, out of curiosity. Why have you not competed at all as of late? I mean, you said your first only competition was back when you were 18 or 19 wasn't White. I competed since then, you know, when I saw that you were competing in November, I'm looking at myself and I'm like, you know, I'm not what you said it was 25 weeks. I think in your newsletter that you have right now. Yeah, 25 house, thinking about that myself.

And I was like, why don't I compete my biggest fear with natural bodybuilding is crashing your hormones. It is such a because I like being in the sweet spot where I'm, you know, constantly about as lean as that picture. I showed you. Yeah. Or Or, you know, around that ballpark, I'm a little bit. I've gained, you know, one or two percent body fat from there since then just trying to really focus on getting my chest

bigger. But my biggest fear with natural bodybuilding is I don't know if I'm willing to go into that depth for the show and then have to deal with the implications that has on your hormones just to compete. But so what is your experience with that? Been like for yourself? Like, how long does it take you to kind of recover from the show to where you're kind of more into you're coasting? Post-show, because I know you said you're going to go through a very strategic, what was it

counter diet? I've had a diverse talent for sure. Reverse, that you're going to reverse diet very slowly after this show because you've had such success with your female competitors, giving it a try, but Do you feel like your libido and your hormones are going to be in a pretty compromised state, for pretty lengthy amount of time. Post-show, with that is a good

question, man. So, like when I used to compete pre key, do you know, it was it like, and everybody's so does this like, most people, most competitors do not leverage, a

ketogenic carnivore diet. They do the high protein, high carb, very minimal, fat that tanks hormones drastically, especially, when you're having Being very minimal calories coming in there at the end and you're doing, you know, tons of excessive cardio like that is a recipe for harm when it comes to hormonal health, and when I was doing those, I didn't, I was broke, man. Like I didn't have a whole lot of money to get routine lab work. So I could tell that my libido was tanked.

I could tell that I had no energy like everything was screwed up but I didn't have a lot of data to point to. Once I started doing kedo, I was also broke. So I didn't get a lot of Lamport time. I got a few panels. Done that first year believe and my hormones still dropped significantly but I believe significantly less so than they did when I was following a carbohydrate that simply because my dietary fat was still

relatively High throughout. So my total calories, you know, when I was taking it really low with you know, carbohydrate-based approach. It was about the same caloric low with carbs versus that with keto, but the total macronutrient break, you know, distribution is far far different and I think having higher dietary fat in the Text of those lower calories, really helps to protect against, you know, tanking your hormones unnecessarily.

Now, you still definitely see a dip in libido and energy and all those things with the ketogenic carnivore diet in the context of that low calorie range. But now with this prep, I'm not quite as broke and I'm doing all the blood work all the time, and I got initial blood work. I'm probably going to get blood work every every three months for sure, but maybe even more frequently than that, especially as we get closer.

Closer to the show. So I'm curious to see how that is affected, but I mean, I don't have super high testosterone and free testosterone anyways, like, I think my total testosterone was like 570 or something like that. It's usually between five and seven hundred is my Norman mines. Oftentimes hinders a result of

just stress and lack of sleep. So I need to get that dialed in to optimize that, but I'm going to test that throughout the entirety of the prep and the reverse sad to see how low it actually gets at. How How long it takes me to recover it in the reverse protocol. Yeah, it's gonna be really interesting to see that's that's always been my main concern competing because I'm just trying to consistently progress every year.

I feel like that's going to hinder the progress especially now that I've figured this new way out of chest training from Mike Van Wyck. I feel like I'm making the best chess games that I've ever had and I'm just in a nice caloric Surplus. So I don't know if I am willing to Make that sacrifice to get on stage just to get on stage, but if I do end up, you know, creating a social media, I still haven't done that. It would be a good time to maybe

document that process. And, you know, go through with it. If I do end up doing it all, I'll definitely hit you up first person revised. So probably I don't know why. I haven't purchased, I mean I haven't purchased your book because I don't compete. You know, you have a undeniable undeniably great way of manipulating your Macros going into a competition, with the ketogenic approach where you you lower your protein more than you would typically, do your higher, raise your fats, I have zero

doubts. That would get you the shredded to the Bone. If you followed, if you just purchase that book and followed, you know, the instructions outlined in it, but that's been my my main hesitancy, but we'll see, we'll see. I start. Maybe I'll send you some some pictures of where I'm at now and get your You know, if I should compete at all and if I should maybe a step on stage in men's physique instead of bodybuilding, because I'm so tall, but I don't know.

I'm 64 and 210, which I don't think it's going to be impressive if I get any leaner than I already a.m., you know, hopefully skin bones up there but we'll see. I mean, shoot based off of that one. Picture you sent, man, you got a super solid foundation super solid muscular base like you would do some damage on stage and I feel like, you know, you're absolutely right.

I totally get behind what you're saying and not wanting to say, Suffice your health just to step on stage and you're right in saying that it's not going to be out before, you know, hormonal health or you know, to continue to add more size to your chest and for me, that's why don't compete every single year. I wouldn't recommend anybody compete every single year, especially as a natural competitor.

But the for me, the benefit that I get psychologically and pushing myself to that level and seeing what I'm capable of while it's not, Optimal from a strictly physical standpoint than mental benefit far, outweighs, that temporary dip in, you know, physical performance. If that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's why I was still kind of on the fence about it. I mean, there's a lot that's

appealing to it still. Yeah, you know, stepping on stage with you would be a huge honor to. So I don't know if I even can't, can I, if I'm an amateur, can I compete with you in the sea on the same stage? Or are you going to be in a professional League? Ugh of this competition where you can't step on stage and I can forward that completely different weight class. Anyway, I don't know what I'm talking about.

Well, no, if we both won. So, my Pro title was earned back in 2017 and body, but things weird me. Like if you don't compete every couple of years, sometimes a, depending on the Federation every year then your pro status expires. So like depending on how frequently competing, what federation you compete in, I'm not even technically qualified. Like I have to regain my process before I compete on a pro. So I never got my Pro card with

W NB F, I got it with gbo. So now I've got to get I've got to compete as an amateur in the eye and bf once I get my Pro card there, then I compete in the W and b f which is the iimbs pro league. And then from there, I'm stepping on stage with other Pro competitors. So theoretically you could compete as an eye on behalf of amateur, I can compete as 9bf amateur in different classes. If both of us want our classes, then we could compete.

In the overall and whoever won, that would be gained what are, what are the pro card for that Federation? So you're planning to qualify to become a pro in October and then 2p as a pro in November. Yeah. That's the plan. Gotcha. Okay. That is the plain and some of these shows have like, super pro qualifiers. So, some of the way that works is, if you have enough competitors in a class like, lightweight class middle, Class then if you win that class you also earn a pro card.

There has to be I believe eight competitors in the class for that too and it has been only certain shows provide that but then you don't have to win the overall amongst all classes, but I kind of like earning it via the overall route because that to me just is more impressive. Like, I want to be the best in the entire line. I'm not just those in my class. Hey I'm excited to see the leave this man alive than October. Yeah, well going back to hormonal Health man.

Being the last man alive will most certainly be an unhealthy Endeavor. This is kind of like a classic classic example of do. As I say, not as I do kind of scenario because I wouldn't recommend, anybody do what I'm about to do to the extent that I'm about to do it, but I just want to operate on The Fringe extreme there, for a moment in time, you know? Yeah. No. Yeah. When you're the way that you're doing it only competing once

every couple of years. Give me your chance giving your body to the chance to recover and actually put on muscle in between competitions is. I think that's the only way to do it if you're competing nationally I think if you could be nationally every year you're really shooting yourself in the foot and not actually bodybuilding, I feel that I believe the need to have the competitors. Once they learn their Pro cards compete again.

As soon as a natural, especially just doesn't make any sense. But it is what it is. They need you to compete. They need you to know because you're you're helping the sport by competing and helping them as promoters, get there event out and make money. But it's not best for the individual long-term in my opinion especially as a natural. But that's a different topic altogether. No I totally human. That's honestly one like I love natural body but I don't want to talk down about That at all.

But one of the frustrations I have with it, is that right there, like forcing competitors to compete, so frequently to maintain their Pro status like that, I think is no bueno. I think you know I'm not a promoter so I maybe I just unaware of what you know complications they have when they're in but I would think that from a competitor Health standpoint just simply saying hey look if you win your pro status you're welcome on a similar Pro stage.

Any point in the future you don't have to compete every year to maintain that Pro status. Another thing that Bothers me is that with natural body buildings being so incredibly strict towards, you know, abusing drugs, which I think is great. It's come to the point where like, they're so strict on everything, even like certain vitamins and supplements and like, there are many vitamins that I think would be advantageous just for overall General Health.

But it's like I'm scared to even take them because it's like, this is going to pop on a test and then they're going to ban me from the sport. And here I am taking like In AC or something like that, you know. Yeah, yeah you gotta tread carefully and up that what these Federation, especially as you're getting into multiple federation's, and you got all the different roles in you follow. Yeah, for sure. We'll shoot, man. I've totally digressed.

I've been I've been asking you all kinds of questions but I definitely want to. I'm gonna go back. I'm gonna do the whole program as it's listed as you recommend for sure. So I appreciate the nudge there and I'm just excited to keep seeing where you take things, man. Like I love to see you step onstage if that's the route you go. But if it's not I love to see, just keep building and getting better and better with dialing in your corner of your diet.

Your oh, Matt approach, your new training philosophy here with the one exercise per body part like, I think they call that makes a ton of sense to me, I appreciate that. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see.

I got it. I'll send you some pictures, I'll probably have my training partner, shoot some, and I'll get you opinion on if you think I should step on stage and if so, what class you would recommend, because I'm excited 64. Or it's hard for me, I'm going to be competing against people that are, you know, quite a bit shorter than I am. So they could fill out the frame

quite a bit more. So I don't know how competitive like be and by living but will see I just told myself the hardest, high standard if I'm going to compete. I want to compete the win. You know. I don't want to just get on stage and get blown out. So how cuddly will see what physique, classic physique. I mean, I can see doing either those for sure, but I mean bodybuilding potentially as well man.

I mean I'm definitely other Spectrum of you know whopping five seven and a half so I'm not too tall at all but each different by type brings with it its own strong points and weak

points, you know? Yeah that's the one thing that I do have come for me as if you got some just some body parts that look bigger because they got just really full because they've actually got some size despite being long as hell told him and you said you don't have an Instagram so I can't recommend people follow you any particular place, right?

Unfortunately, not I'd failed. My homework and getting that started but I will get that started especially if I do start competing but I do you have any recommendations on getting started with something like that? I guess the whole thing is just getting started. The first place kind of committing to how you want to convey your message and just just jumping in, right? Yeah, pretty much man. I mean you're you're very well-spoken knowledgeable, guys. So I would think that, you know,

Instagram even podcast a man. Like, I feel like you'd be able to, you know, you've carried yourself one, this podcast, so start upon And cast on Instagram and just simply documenting your journey bring people on pick their brain about. There's and just, you know, create content. Ma'am. That's the name of the game. Yeah, I gotta get into it before you wrap a one question for you rub, and That is why with the keto brick? What is your hesitancy to pushing a product that you have

the key to break? But it's in different forms. Like I saw in your post, you had a way to mold it for cereal, which I think would be just a game changer or even just have it in my peanut butter cup serving sizes, and then just have it be molded from the manufacturer, from your company, and delivered, that way, is it? Logistically they melt, or is it just that much more manufacturing cost? What is the hesitancy on on doing that?

So the main thing is that, like we produce them all, so we can make technically anything, any shape any size. The thing is what we have now. That's what all of our infrastructure is built on and it's going to create the most cost-effective option for the consumer. So, like, right now, they're able to get 1,000 calories that are very cost. Effective price point like the keto brick, Technically cheaper cost per calorie than any other

bar out there. Like. No questions asked and it's significantly higher in quality ingredients. The problem is, if we were to do the same, you know, formula but in like a, you know, Reese's cup size packaging. We've got more packaging. We got to, like, Distributing to smaller molds package. Those with it's just much more touch points. So, the cost per calorie increases.

So people are getting less food for A higher price point and I totally get that people want to pay for convenience, but my perspective has been just like, hey, I want to give people the absolute highest quality, the most cost-effective, and the best bang for their proverbial buck as I possibly can.

And then if they want to change the shape size or whatever, they can just easily do. So, after the fact with whatever mold their heart desires at home, that's kind of been my reasoning with it. I think I think you should pull pull everyone in the newsletter to see There are other people like me, that really enjoy the keto brick product, but don't want the inconvenience of having to mold it to what they want

themselves. And there would be willing to pay more for that convenience factor because that there is a significant convenience factor that. But I 100% respect and appreciate the approach that you have towards keeping a cheap with the same time. I would definitely pay a premium for you to deliver it to me in a more More like a peanut butter cups if you had those, if you had your peanut butter flavored, keto brick in the peanut butter

cup format already. I mean, I really love the keto brick and I highly recommend if anyone listening, hasn't tried it, it's fantastic. But yeah, I would just die for the convenience of just being able to buy it in a in a already cut format, but that's just my two cents. I get it, man, I crush it either way. I love it all, the feedback I can get Plus I just freaking eat a whole brekkie to work at one sitting. Like I opened it up, eat the whole thing as if it was a

normal size you know, snack bar. Because I want those calories, I want that stearic acid. I want that nutrition and shoot man. You, you're probably taking them more calories. To me, you'd be home brick at a time. Anyways, to well, I thought about that I couldn't so I currently base my diet on a pound of ground beef and 12 eggs. And that's that's my Foundation. Each one of those are about

1,200 calories. He's, I couldn't afford to add a whole nother 1,000 calories from Quito brick, without being getting a lot of body fat, but I could substitute out the 12 eggs for that, but in your opinion, does the stearic acid have a similar benefit of what you'd be replacing from either of those? So how much what are your total calories and macros with the pound of ground beef and dozen eggs? That what does that break down to for you?

Once I add the Pork rinds in the cheese and the butter I'm looking at. Hi 2000's, probably around 3,000 average. I just eat intuitively now that I'm not prepping yet. Might be it sounds like, but yeah, I would probably just, you know, if it was me I would keep the ground beef and eggs skip the butter and, you know, pork rinds because though, I mean those I didn't Rishon, I love pork rinds and butter as well, but from a nutritional standpoint, the bulk of that nutrition is coming from the

ground beef. Legs obviously. So if you had that, you're not really getting anything inherently. Additionally from the pork rinds and butter. So you could just have the 12 eggs, the pound of ground beef, and then the key tobruk. And then, depending on what your caloric needs were, you could either do an 80/20 ground beef or an 85/15 ground beef. Like, if you wanted to have lower calories, just simply do a leaner ground Bo. I didn't think about that.

Yeah, so as I die, I could just lean up my ground beef and then keep Aikido brick. There. Yeah. Or it's that's what I know portion of. That's exactly what I do. Like, I'm gonna eat an entire brick throughout the entirety of my prep every single day without fail because I noticed that much benefit from the stearic acid, but I'm also prioritizing everything else I'm consuming and getting the most nutrient-dense foods I can. So ground beef eggs.

All oftentimes throw in like liverwurst or venison that I've harvested, you know, the stuff that I know is like the crème de la crème, high quality food, but that intent with the brick and all the stearic acid that Vines, that's my sweet spot. You got me sold, I'm gonna get off here and buy some work. You do bricks. I love it. That was not my intention man, but I certainly prefer. I definitely just want to see how you do throughout the building or cutting phase. Whichever one you want.

And I'm going for man. So keep me posted. There's everything I can do for you. Just let me know brother. I appreciate y'all. Send you send you an email with some updated photos and my contact information will link later this year in October, regardless, whether or not I compute, I love to see you and hang out and I hate you. Your win is letting this man alive. Both show sounds great man. Will slam some will slam some meat down will get a workout in and it'll begin. Fantastic.

See you soon. Rob. Thank you for your time. You bet. Bye.