Increasing Longevity with Chris Burres

Well, hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto savage.com. Today I've got special guest Chris Burress on the line. He is one of the main guys behind a compound called ES60, which has been shown to dramatically increase longevity in rodent models. It's also been shown to have a significant anti-inflammatory effect. And we just dive into the research on that. I wanted to learn more about what the science showed, what

the anecdotal studies showed. It's been making a lot of it's been making a lot of momentum as of late when it comes to improving longevity recovery and lowering inflammation. So I just kind of wanted to learn more about the research there. It's pretty promising, pretty interesting indeed. So without for the delay is sit back, relax and do the conversation with Chris and we are live. Chris, how are you, Sir? I'm doing wonderful. Robert, how are you doing today?

I am good, man. I cannot complain. I'm excited to learn from you, man. You're going to teach us how to live forever. Is that right? I'm going to share with you my journey about trying to figure out how to live forever. Hopefully that's the same thing. Awesome. It's interesting because I've had several people on the podcast talking about longevity and everybody's got their own, you know, protocol or stances to how to best accomplish that.

Certain things, you know, more promising than others. But what what if it gets you into the longevity space to begin with, man? Because a lot of people are trying to live in the moments and not a lot of people are trying to live, you know, with thoughts of what can I do to set

myself up for long term success? I'm always curious to see what the motivation is. Yeah, I think a lot of people when they start thinking about longevity don't necessarily have the reaction that I first and and kind of still have, but but and we can come back to that. Let's so let's talk about how I

got into this industry. I can tell you nine years ago, if you had said, Chris, you're going to be working towards becoming a longevity expert, you're going to have written a book called Live Longer and Better, You're going to have interviewed 55 experts for a longevity summit, including Ben Greenfield, Dave Asprey, Doctor Stephen Gundry. I would have just said you are crazy. Like I don't know how I get from and where I'm at at that .9 years ago to where we're at today.

And So what that looks like, how I even got to that .9 years ago. I have been my business partner and I have been manufacturing a molecule since 1991. The molecule was discovered in 1985, and the three scientists who discovered that molecule won the Nobel Prize for that discovery. It's a very unique molecule that has a soccer ball shape. It's the first close cage molecule. And if you just imagine a soccer ball where the lines on the soccer ball represent the bonds between the carbon atoms.

So you have a spherical molecule of 60 carbon atoms. It was again the 1st closed cage molecule ever discovered, which is part of the reason the one the Nobel Prize. Another part of the reason they won the Nobel Prize is the molecule is absolutely amazing. It performs as well or better than the current best material in almost every application. So it makes better ink, better tires, better batteries, better photo cells. And this is often the point where people like, wait a minute.

I thought we were talking about something that was healthy for me or might be healthy for me or might give me longevity. I have literally never looked out at my car and thought, what components of my battery, my car battery should I be consuming on a daily basis, right? The story gets a little worse first. So on the exterior of that soccer ball shaped molecule, we call it ESS 60, is the shape

that is the same as benzene. Now benzene is ubiquitous in our society and we don't have modern society without benzene. If you just look around wherever you're at and imagine all the plastics gone. Benzene is the foundational molecule for all plastics. It's also the foundational model molecule for a lot of medicines, including aspirin and a lot of detergent. So we don't have modern society

without the benzene ring. But benzene, when it's all on its own, is known to be toxic and known to be carcinogenic. So the fact that the shape of benzene was on the exterior of this carbon cage LED scientists to believe that it would be toxic. And when it's toxic and you think man might be working with it on a regular basis, you do toxicity studies. So they threw this ESS 60 molecule into a toxicity study. In that study, they gave Wistar

rats water as the control group. One group was given olive oil and then another group was given olive oil with as much of the ESS 60 molecule as you can get to dissolve in it. Instead of being toxic. The test subjects that received the ESS 60 in olive oil really the my Vital C formula lived 90% longer than the control group. So that's the single longest longevity experimental result on mammals in history.

And I'll just share our most consistent testimonial from our customers is that they take it in the morning, their report mental focus and energy during the day and then better sleep that night. You probably want to hear some performance stuff. I, I, I have some of that to share, but I'll, I'll turn it back over to you because I feel like I've been talking for a while. Yeah, no, I definitely dive into this. So what was the when it was discovered in 1985, what were

they trying to discover? Like what was the motive behind the discovery in the first place? Man, that's a great question. So I do cover this in my book Live Longer and Better and the it's interesting. So the lead researcher who ultimately was the lead researcher who awarded the Nobel Prize, refused to do the study that was actually required in order to discover this molecule. So let me kind of explain how that looks because you know, all, there's always drama somewhere, even in science.

So there's a Professor Harold Kroto. He's Kroto. He, he is one of the Nobel Prize winners. He's now called Sir Harold Kroto. And he's since passed. He's a astrophysicist in the UK looking into space and seeing a spectrum that he doesn't recognize and can't identify. And he theorizes that it's carbon here in Houston. That's where we're based at Rice University. They have this piece of equipment that does really kind

of fantastic stuff. You basically shine a laser at a sample, and then a puff of inert gas takes the vaporized material that you just shine a laser on into a mass spectrometer. So you know exactly what was created when that laser vaporized that material. Harold Kroto wants to put carbon in this machine and see what happens. Richard Smiley here in here at Rice University is says, I don't want to do boring carbon. Everybody knows carbon. I'm doing sexy things like titanium.

So no, I'm not going to put carbon in your machine, in my machine and test it. Harold Kroto goes off. He comes back a second time. He says, hey, I'm back again. You know, I really think we should throw some carbon in here again. He's rebuked by Doctor Smalley, who says, you know, again, boring carbon, I'm doing sexier things. So no, finally, on the third trip, Harold Kroto comes back again. And unlike you're probably thinking, Smalley again says, no, I don't want to throw carbon.

But one of the Doctor Smalley's grad students says, hey, I'm going to come in over the weekend. I'll throw your boring old carbon in there. And he was actually able to tweak the settings of this piece of equipment and get a peek at 60. So that's 60 carbon atoms and a slight peak at 70. So that's 70 carbon atoms. Ostensibly, they were just making flat sheets of carbon, right? That's what they thought they were making.

So why would a flat sheet with 60 carbon atoms be more predominant than one with 59 or 61? And the same with the 70? What? Why would you have more 70 flat sheets than 69 or 71? And the reality is, is because it's a closed cage structure. So they figured out what this structure was.

It looks like a soccer ball. Looks like the geodesic Dome and then they had discovered it. So that's kind of a, an interesting behind the scenes story of the fact that the, the real guy who honestly should have got a lot of credit and probably the Nobel Prize was his name's Heath, a grad student of Doctor Smalley. And you know, he is, he did not win the Nobel Prize. And he's gone on to do amazing stuff. He's a he's a brilliant scientist. Nice, nice.

What were they trying to use it for once it was initially discovered? Like, were they? Where were they finding the use cases? Yeah. So right away it turns out that what, So there's a lot of computational models that they could do on it, even though it had never been discovered

before. They could tweak the parameters of their computational models and they could make this cage right in a in a computer and then they could see what it would do. And the reality is it will it will do the wet chemistry that we use with the benzene ring so we can make plastics and detergents and medications. So they predicted all of those wet chemistry techniques would work on this. They call it a buckyball, right? So I'll talk a little bit about that.

So that geodesic Dome shape, they decided in homage to a guy named Buckminster Fuller to call it fullerenes or that soccer ball shaped, which we call ESS 60. They also call it a buckyball. That's because Buckminster Fuller is the guy who brought the geodesic Dome to prominence. Now you've been to Epcot Center, or you've seen Epcot Center. That big globe is a geodesic Dome and it was brought really to, you know, to awareness by Buckminster Fuller.

So the whole collection of molecules which include a carbon 60 molecule, carbon 70, carbon 7684, all of those are called fullerenes and then the most abundant 1 is called a buckyball. So they knew this buckyball would have fantastic print properties. They, they thought it was likely that it would have fantastic properties and so they started doing all sorts of research. So remember, it was discovered in 85.

In 1991, my business partner and I started making manufacturing macroscopic quantities of the material to sell to research institutions around the world. In that same year, all 10 of the 10 most referenced scientific papers. So, you know, a scientific paper has references that of previous papers that were they were referencing for the article. All 10 of the MO of the 10 most referenced scientific papers were about fullerenes and about the buckyball.

So this was, you know, a viral discovery back in 1991. So we used to joke in the beginning people would ask, well, hey, what is this molecule good for? It was really good for funding because if you wrote a proposal about a buckyball, you probably got funded because everybody was real excited about it. And as I mentioned, it performs as well or better than the current best material in almost every application. So that again, that's inks, better batteries, better tires, better photo cells.

The only thing is it's expensive to manufacture, really challenging to manufacture and expensive. And so it is just not cost competitive with other things. In the early days, we knew kind of two things would cause this molecule to come into prominence and start to get used. And, and I talked about this in in my book, one of them was like, let's just pretend that the molecule could make airplanes invisible, right? Like a, a high defence value

proposition. Clearly, you know, the money would not be an issue and you know, we would be off and running selling lots of the material. It turns out it doesn't make airplanes invisible. So that wasn't the path. The other is if a very small amount, because it's so expensive of the material could have a dramatic impact, then that would be another path for this molecule to come to prominence.

And that's ultimately what we have here with now the health supplement because you can't actually get that much of the ESS 60 molecule to dissolve an olive oil. And then you look at this result, you know, a full 90% extension of life in a peer reviewed published research paper. That's a dramatic impact. And so that's why this is a health supplement now. And finally, this molecule is is getting its due since it's so

amazing. So is it not used in any other mainstream application apart from the longevity supplementation? So in, in reality, the, the short answer to that is you're correct. There are other offshoots that are used, but it's so expensive. The, the one place that I'm so hopeful this will work. It is supposed to be cost competitive and functionally competitive with lithium. So I just think having a Bucky battery would be, would be absolutely amazing, right?

Like just the nomenclature and the fact that I've been working with it since 1991. So yeah, when I say there's other offshoots, there are things called nanotubes. So if you kind of took that soccer ball shape, you broke it in half and then you put a a graphite, a flat sheet of graphite and rolled it up into a tube like a straw. Nanotubes are used for some applications at at this point.

So the fullerene technology is being used, but the specific buckyball, we call it ESS 60 is really sitting soundly in the health space. Gotcha, gotcha. So bringing out the details of that longevity study in rodents. So how was that designed? What was the parameters like? How did that play on? Yeah, So one of the things to note is, remember it was a toxicity study.

And I always like to give credit to the researchers because if anything was ever true, right, especially about a toxicity study, if all of the control rats, so those are the rats given water, are dead and all of the rats that are supposed to be taking the toxic material are still alive, that material is not toxic, right? Like there is no doubt about it.

That material is not toxic. Even though all the control rats were dead, they continue to do the animal husbandry for another year and a half, another 30 months. So, so I'll describe this and I'm going to add another component to this study because my, my director of research once said, hey, this research paper is so comprehensive, it could have been 5 separate papers. So a typical Wistar rat will live out to 32 months and it will have a known amount of

tumor mass in its body. The longer it lives, the more tumor mass it will have in its body. Even though the rats give an ESS 60 in olive oil. Again, the my Vital C formula lived out to 62 months. They should have had twice as much tumor mass, but none of them actually had any tumors. Now I'll tell you, I tell this story from time to time and people jump to the conclusion

like, oh, cure for cancer. And the answer to that is no. And then I always follow it with another no. Like dealing with a cancer that has metastasized is very different than being a cancer preventative. And we know things as good, as simple as good exercise, good nutrition, good sleep can be cancer preventative. So that that piece of the study just throws it in into that that component, the fact that it could be a cancer preventative.

And there are actually patents related to the molecule being used in protocols for cancer, treating cancer in pets. So that we have a long way to go. And I might as well throw out my FDA disclaimer. The FDA has not evaluated our product. It is not intended to treat, diagnose, cure, or prevent any disease. And I'll probably be sharing some anecdotes and some testimonials. Better to just assume those won't happen to you.

Dig into the research and if you're interested, I'm sure we'll be giving a a URL where you could try the product at the at the end of this episode. So, yeah, so with regards to the rodent study, what was the dosage there relative to what would be recommended for humans, for instance? Man, that's a great question, right? Because as we, you know, I'll come back to that because, because we had this journey where we actually didn't really want to be in the supplement space.

So this study where the rats lived 90% longer comes out in mid 2012. By the middle of 2013, this crazy wacky group of people called biohackers. And I can say crazy wacky because I'm now a biohacker. I think you're would probably, you know, be comfortable saying that you're a biohacker. They start calling us and telling us, hey, how much of this stuff should I take, right? I saw the study, I'm a biohacker.

How much should I take? And my business partner, when they asked that question, my business partner and I, what we heard was you asking us how much of this stuff that we sell to research institutions around the world to put into inks, batteries, tires and photo cells, how much of that stuff should we should we consume on a daily basis. And we thought the right answer was 0.

As conservative nanomaterial scientists working in this kind of industrial space, we actually added not for human consumption to the labeling in mid 2013. Now imagine we started in 1991.

We didn't need any labeling saying not for human consumption until 2 mid 2013. And also note that the research, the literature, the research papers that were out there were clear there was nothing wrong or dangerous about this material in terms of consuming it. We were just acting as really conservative carbon nanomaterial scientists. So we've, we, we really didn't bring the product to market until about the latter part of two 2017.

In that time frame, my business partner and I would get together quarterly. We're receiving phone and, and discuss, Hey, do we want to go into it? And the reason we're getting together quarterly is we're getting two to three phone calls a week from people saying things like, Hey, my knee pain is gone. And we would say, wait a minute, you, you mean the knee pain of your rat? Because it literally says not for human consumption. And they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, the knee pain of my rat.

Hey, if my rat weighs 275 lbs, how much should they take? I mean, they take, right? And also if they work out a lot, should they take more? So we kind of knew what was going on, but we kept quarterly thinking this is not an industry we want to get into. It's very different than taking this powder, right? So this carbon material is a black powder, selling it to research institutions around the

world. When they would receive the material, they would give it to a grad student or give it to a research associate who has access to an HPLC and could confirm that we shipped them exactly what they sold them, what we sold them. And that is, you know, as you know, that's not how the supplement industry works. People don't have HP LCS. And so we tried not to get into

the industry. And then even in the middle of that, I found a research paper that showed 50%, and this was peer reviewed, 50% of the supplements that this research group had purchased off of the market did not have in them what they said they had in them. So we really didn't want to get in this industry. Finally, at the latter part of 2017, a guy with a big YouTube following starts talking about all the benefits he's getting taking it on a daily basis.

And our phone went from ringing two to three times a week to ringing 10 times a day. Now my business partner and I like, OK, this is an entrepreneurial opportunity we didn't see before. And we asked ourselves 2 questions. And and then had 1/3 consideration the two questions were are we comfortable selling it? I take it, my wife takes it, everybody on our team takes it by the way, not a requirement to work on our team, but but everyone does take it.

They see the research and hear the testimonials and so they take it. And then the next here in the States is the FDA and the FTC. You got to cross the TS dot the IS. And so we are often doing that doing it correctly. And then the final thing, if you look back to me finding that paper where 50% of the products on the market that they tested didn't have in them what they said they had in them. We kind of realized that people would get into this industry and they would do a bad job.

And we're uniquely positioned as the oldest and longest manufacturer of the molecule to make a high quality product and and keep the consumers safe. And so that's ultimately why we got into the market. Now I have lost my train of thought because you asked me a question and I know I didn't answer it yet. No, no, no, that that I think I was talking about doses for humans relative to the rodents like what the excellent. Yeah, Yeah.

So let me talk about. So as we're trying to bring this to market, your first thought is how many milliliters of this oil with as much of the ESS 60 molecule that you can resolve in it, How many milliliters per kilogram did the rats get? And when you use that same calculation for a human, we would have been taking a full cup or almost a cup of olive oil with ESS 60 in it per day. That's obviously not doable. And what it doesn't take into account is the metabolism of a

rat versus a human. There's this particular type of, by the way, this calculation happens all the time, right? They do testing on rats, they see some benefits or whatever. They transition it to a human trial. And what they use is called an allometric calculation. And that allometric calculation takes into account the metabolism of the rat and the human, which by the way, I'm super geeky when it comes to these things, is it's directly correlated to the surface area of the animal, right?

So you want to know the metabolism of another animal compared to yours, You actually just compare your surface area to their surface area. I don't know why I like that. I'm super geeky that way. When we did that calculation, taking into account how long the rats were dosed, they were actually dosed for a short period of time and stretching that out over, you know, a human life. Then we ended up at 1 teaspoon per day of a hike.

What we serve, what we have is a high quality extra virgin olive oil with as much of the ESS 60 molecule as we can get to dissolve in it. Gotcha. OK. So one tablespoon per day of the oil with the concentration in there and that is teaspoon, 1 teaspoon teaspoon. So not not much at all. No GI distress from that. Say that again. No, no GI distress from 1 teaspoon at all.

Yeah. So it's right at the level where you might have a little bit of loose stool for a couple of days and people who aren't consuming enough, I would argue enough oil in general, not just our oil, but you know, olive oil is so good for you. They it's not. I wouldn't call it distress. I would just say a slightly loose stool for a couple of days and then then it goes away.

Have there been any human trials or studies done since this has been kind of brought up to more mainstream consumption? Yeah, I think more disappointingly, that initial rat study hasn't even been recreated, right? Like that's how the scientific process is supposed to work. Some group does has a hypothesis. Ironically, in this case it was that it was toxic. They have a result, the rats live 90% longer and then some

other group does that study. I know of an ad hoc unpublished study on mice that showed a 92% extension of life, but nobody's come forward and done that. We are in the process. We are one of those unique supplement labs that actually continues to do research and publish that research. We actually, it's probably six months ago now, published with the lead researcher of that initial rat study. He's a doctor, Fathi Musa, out of the University of Paris.

We published that study. We have two other studies that are complete. We're working on publishing those and then one more study. And our goal at this point is to redo that initial RAT study with some modifications. We think we can do better than a 90% extension of life, but that's the next step. In terms of human studies, I estimate that there's more than 40,000 people have tried this product and probably 1000 people have had it consistently.

I've been consistently taking this more than a teaspoon every day since the beginning of 2018. And there are certainly a number of people who are out there now in terms of studies. I, I, I think I mentioned our most consistent testimonial is people take it in the morning, They report mental focus and energy during the day and then better sleep that night. And I'm just going to kind of segue the, I'm not aware of anything that you can take in the morning to positively impact

sleep at night. Certainly if you exercise in the morning, that'll positively impact your sleep at night. If you get exposure to the sun, it'll get your circadian rhythm in line with the rising and falling of the sun and that will positively impact your sleep at night. But to take something and positively impact your sleep is really surprising. So that's one of the things with aura ring. I don't know if you've played around with an aura ring, One of the the better sleep trackers on

the market. We roll my finger right now. Right now, right And now are are you like a data addict and you check it every day or it's just from time to time or what? What's your kind of status with the ordering? Yeah, I mean, my ordering mostly tells me that I need to take it easy and I just keep proving it wrong. Well, it's good to know how much beyond what it's telling you you should do that you are doing. Exactly. Well, it was wrong yesterday, so it's wrong again today.

I, I ended up in contact through, through a podcast connection with a, a doctor, Benjamin Smarr. He's out of the University of California, San Diego. And he was doing it was consulting for O-ring and we were working on a sleep study. This is right before the pandemic and he got pulled away because the aura ring is actually pretty good at identifying if you're getting sick, right? It can notice slight temperature differences. And so it was good at

identifying COVID. And so he just disappeared. But we continued the study at this point. And and actually, I need to talk to my team. I want to get more people through this. At this point, we have 10 people who have gone through the study. The study looks like this. We collect 10 days of survey data and that survey data is how hard was it to fall asleep? How restless was your sleep? How good was your sleep and how

did you feel waking up? So we collect that 10 days of data before they try the product, 10 days on the product, 10 days off the product, and then 10 days back on it. 100% of the people in that trial, we won't call it a study. I think that gives it too big of a name. But in that trial, 100% of the people reported better sleep when they were on on the product.

Our next thing, the next thing that we're working on, because this is, I mean, literally, I was just having a conversation sitting here with my director of research. We met a guy at a biohacking conference. His name is Lane, he's a practitioner, and he showed up at our booth at A4M Longevity Fest. I don't know if you happen to go to either one of those. So he shows up and he says, Chris, I've been given your product to a number of my patients and I can.

And I took a video of it because it was so profound for me, he says. Chris, I don't care if they're pre surgery, post surgery, male, female, cardiovascular disease, cancer, pre diabetes post. You know, with diabetes, your product reduces C reactive protein dramatically in four to six weeks. Now, C reactive protein is an

indicator of inflammation. And we can probably talk about methods of action that is, is a very good indicator of inflammation and something that you typically want to keep low. He was talking about having a patient stuck at 9. He started giving him our product and got him down to .9. I literally just because we're, we're going to start doing a trial and get some tests into people's hands. I literally just did one minds .4. Anything below 1 is exactly where you want to be.

And so we're that's going to be the next study that we do. It'll first be an ad hoc study just to kind of test the waters, and then we'll go in and do. Our goal would be to do a placebo-controlled, double-blind, you know, human trial with, you know, 10, probably 15 people in that study on each side, you know, some receiving, some not, but blind. And that would be measuring specifically C reactive protein with that one teaspoon a day dosage.

Exactly, exactly. We would take AAC reactive protein sample before or get the actual test done and then they would go on the product for probably two months, right at two months and and once that eight weeks is up, we would get another C reactive protein test to them. They would take that test and then you know, we'll have some interesting data. I'm still trying to get the data from Lane. He is super busy apparently, but I'm texting him and emailing him.

He has some data already and is confident in, in that video that he gave me, which is which is really exciting. I mean, we, we can talk about method of action. We have to be really careful when talking about method of action in talking about inflammation, right? And there's a good reason for that, I believe. But we can talk about this possibility of reducing C reactive protein, you know, consistently. Yes, let's let's dive into the mechanism here.

So what what do you think is actually happening internally when they consume this? Like what's happening mechanistically in the cells? Like what is creating this reduction in inflammation? Overall improvement in vitality? Yeah. If it's OK, I'm going to walk you through my thought process because as we came to market in 2018, it was kind of my goal to dig in. Hey, is a 90% extension of life a big deal? Yes, it is. In fact the next best way to live longer is called calorie restriction.

If you reduce your calorie consumption by 30% in multiple animal models, which probably means in our model as humans also, you can extend your life by 30%. I call that the starve yourself 1/3 to death diet. Not many people want to sign up for that diet. I don't know if they need. We need a new marketing PR company. So that was my first thing. Is this a big deal? 90% extension in mammals is the single longest result. And then next I start thinking

about methods of action. I mentioned our most consistent testimonials. People talk talks about better sleep. We all know that sleep is good for our mental, physical and emotional well beings or like, hey, if we're just helping them sleep, then that's going to have a positive impact on our health. Then my next step further into it was, OK, these rats live 90% longer. What is the medical community think about aging, Right?

And most of it, not all of it, thinks of it in terms of an oxidation and an inflammation process. In fact, there's a word now called inflammation because inflammation is such an aging process in our bodies. And we can check both of those boxes, but I have to do it

carefully. So in terms of antioxidants, there's an ad hoc study on the web showing us to be 172 times more powerful than vitamin C. There's peer reviewed published research showing us us to be 125 times more powerful than vitamin C. So absolutely can check the antioxidant button. And I'm going to come back to that one because we believe it does something special in the mitochondria and and I'll dive into that.

The next is inflammation, and we have to be careful with inflammation because the FDA has decided that talking about inflammation, chronic inflammation, is the same as talking about the diseases of inflammation, which are also the diseases of aging. Meaning if I say I reduce inflammation, then I'm saying that I reduce Alzheimer's, arthritis, cardiovascular disease, cancers. Obviously, there's a lot of research that needs to go into this before we can even start to hint at that.

What we can say is that we reduce inflammation caused by exercise, right? So you've definitely ignored your aura ring and felt that inflammation in your body the next day. Other people, maybe they've just walked longer than normal and felt that inflammation in their body the next day. We absolutely can say we address that inflammation. We just can't say we address chronic inflammation. I will add one last thing to to the kind of inflammation story. We fit perfectly in an

anti-inflammatory diet. That's a diet associated with the Blue zones. Those people tend to have reduced incidences of stroke, tends to have reduced incidences of heart attacks and also tend to live longer. So we fit in that diet and then I want to come back. So that's that's kind of a broad thing, right? Great. We check inflammation with that caveat and we check antioxidant. Our current theory is I think the strongest theory, theory and the most compelling.

And I'm going to share some testimonials to kind of preface this. We literally have head to toe testimonials. We have people sharing with us that hairs growing back, it's growing back original colour for some, not all, but for some. And we also have this kind of the interesting one for toe. One of the guys that we work with, he he at one point in his career was a Navy SEAL. When he was five years old, a crab bit his big toe and split his big toenail. From the age of 5 into the age

of 65, he had a split toenail. After he started taking our product, his toenail healed. So we have head to toe testimonials and I'm trying to find out, you know, does anti-inflammatory, does antioxidant, you know, as we kind of check those boxes, does that explain it? And we ultimately arrived at what we call the boss theory buffering oxidative stress system. So I'm going to get a little technical and then I've got a kind of fun analogy to wrap it all up.

So we know that the ESS 60 molecule gets into the mitochondria. We know from peer reviewed published research that it's actually in the mitochondria. We also know that this molecule, even back in the 90s when it was discovered, can hold up to six negatively charged particles on the exterior of that cage. So how does that fit with the mitochondria? Well, we all know mitochondria

is the powerhouse of every cell. Every cell in your body has between 50 and 5000 mitochondria, except your blood cells, which have zero, and your brain and nerve cells, which have two million. That's how much energy our nervous system uses compared to the rest of to our systems. The mitochondria is the powerhouse, and just like any powerhouse, it has negative byproducts. If you think about a car going down the road, you've got exhaust, that's the negative byproduct.

If you think about a power plant, you have a smokestack, that's the negative byproduct. In the case of mitochondria, it's reactive oxygen species. These are negatively charged particles that do the oxidative damage, cause the oxidative stress that we associate with. Hey, we need antioxidants for this. Internal to the mitochondria. You have two master antioxidants, glutathione and melatonin, right? Melatonin is the sleep hormone. Interesting that our product testimonial includes better

sleep. Their job is to react with these reactive oxygen species and neutralize them. But we all know whether it's from a tough workout, whether it's from the stress of a, you know, stressful e-mail, phone call, whatever, that our mitochondria can get overwhelmed. And that's when the problem

begins. That's when the reactive oxygen species aren't managed by the glutathione or melatonin and start running around like little bumper cars, bumping into things, rusting them, causing oxidative damage.

And that's a problem. But when that ESS 60 molecule is inside that that mitochondria, it can hold on to those reactive oxygen species so they do not do any damage until that mitochondria can replenish the glutathione and the melatonin and then manage those reactive oxygen species appropriately. So I have a fun analogy for this. It's Mardi Gras. It's the end of Mardi Gras.

You're on Bourbon Street and you have these drunk reactive oxygen species running around Bourbon Street, smashing windows, spray painting things, whatever. And the New Orleans Police Department, the glutathione and melatonin come in, handcuff themselves to these reactive oxygen species and get them off of Bourbon Street. But what does the New Orleans Police Department do when they're overwhelmed?

They take these reactive oxygen species and they shove them into a Paddy wagon, or in this case, they attach them to the ESS 60 molecule so they can't do any damage. And then when the New Orleans Police Department can replenish the glutathione and melatonin, they can then handcuff themselves to these reactive oxygen species and get them off of Bourbon Street. And that's why we say the ESS 60 molecule is the boss, a buffering, oxidation negative stress system. Gotcha, gotcha.

OK. I'm following along And that is pretty much, I mean like when you talk about longevity and inflammation, I mean inflammation, reactive oxygen species that that is pretty much what everybody points to as the primary drivers for, you know, adverse effects in its totality. So you can hinder that, then you're pretty much in the green. Yeah, it is. It is powerful as we start kind of showing that we're reducing C reactive protein.

I can share, I don't know if you've done any of these biological age tests, but I did glycan age, which is really glycation, really high glycans interact in your body also an indication of inflammation. And I'm 55. My glycan age test showed me to be 21 and I'm not sure if I wanted to be younger because can you still drink if your biological age is under 21? But but so yeah, that is a good indication that I am extremely low on inflammation.

Is there like a like Ald 50 to this that's known? So the the you're, you're talking about how long it stays in your in your system. Yeah. Just like a concentration that creates adverse effects. Is there any threshold to it, so to speak? Yeah. So sorry. So we believe that the toxicity of our product is the same as the toxicity of olive oil, which would involve drowning, right? So you can keep consuming olive oil. At some point, you're just going to throw it up, right?

You're going to get, you know, GI problems and you're just going to throw it up because it's too much oil, your body can't handle it. But it doesn't really have a known toxicity level as far as we know. And then and I'll just, I kind of brought it up our understanding as this molecule is excreted in about 10 days and, and something to support that. My business coach shares that for 50 years he needed his alarm clock to wake up as soon as he started taking my vital C, he

wakes up before the alarm clock. This is very true until he runs out. And then in about 10 days later, he starts to need the alarm clock again until he starts taking the product again. So that's when we think it's a, it's about 10 days when it's excreted. Gotcha. Meds, I would imagine of that, you know, longer period of time is pretty much fully absorbed and assimilated by that point. It's like you're really excreting the same amount that you're putting in.

Yeah, it's, I think it's taking a while, yes. So the studies on, you know, when does it pass through an, an, an, an animal model, Typically rats, not necessarily Wistar rats, but typically rats is 10 days. So right. So they're collecting samples of the feces, looking for the ESS 60 molecule and and kind of approximating that it's all come out in 10 days. Was there any other telltale signs from that initial rodent

mount? Like was there any footnotes as to how the the mice subjected to the molecule slept comparatively to the control group or their appetite? Was there an increase or decrease in overall consumption, anything like that? Well, obviously they, they were closely monitored. There was no notation of, of, of sleep. They weren't even like, remember they thought they would be toxic.

So they were, they were cut. Frankly, if you're running a toxicity study and you're publishing a paper, you hope all the rats die quickly so that you can publish your paper quickly. What I can say there is another really interesting aspect of the study. They injected some of the rats, a separate group of the rats with carbon tetrachloride, which is a highly oxidative chemical that attacks the liver. Only the ESS 60 and olive oil rats were able to recover from

that injection. The water rats and the olive oil rats died from that which is normal, which is what they expect. But they were looking at what are the protective effects on the liver, what are the antioxidative effects in the liver and and they were profound in that study. So 100% of the the rats that were subject to the toxin that had the ES66 were they survived. Well, what what I would say is the way that's that part of the study is they inject them with carbon tetrachloride.

They wait some period of time, I don't remember what that time was. Then they euthanize them and inspect the livers. And so they were all, you know, the even the ones given ESS 60 were not fully recovered, but their livers were recovering, whereas the water and olive oil rats were not recovering. Interesting, Interesting. I wonder what the use case would be here for like those suffering from, you know, late stage Alzheimer's dementia would look

like. Well, I, I personally, if it was my mom, I can make no claims, as you can imagine, a personally, if it was my mom and we have kind of relevant testimonials, which because that's such a sensitive topic I don't want to get into. If it was my mom, I would probably be giving her tablespoons and you know, my dad has since passed, but I would be giving her tablespoons just for my belief, no research, my belief of the positive impact that it probably has on inflammation.

So I'm trying to be very delicate. Again, assume none of this will happen for you. Dig into the research and you know we'll have a link at the end, but I believe that there are significant and valuable effects there. And that has there been any anecdotal adverse effects that have come your way or have you heard anything to the contrary? No. So we, we get people regularly of all walks of life on all sorts of medications We have no one has reported any adverse

side effects. And if you think about it, if what it's doing is getting into the mitochondria and, and remember, we're not necessarily supporting the mitochondria. We're not, you know, enabling the mitochondria. We're just thing kind of like as a catalytic converter in your car, reducing the negative output of the mitochondria and we're not even doing that. We're just holding on to the negative output that normally would have gone around and do done damage. Like so you wouldn't expect to

see negative side effects. And and I can show there's one, this is in a Petri Petri dish, which is, you know, kind of the lowest level of studies that you would lean on, But they took cancer cells and healthy cells in a Petri dish and introduced an anti cancer agent, which means a poison, right? Your goal is to poison the cancer before the healthy cells. And in the presence of the ESS 60 molecule, there was increased

efficacy. So more cancer cells died and there was less, less negative impact on the healthy cells in the presence of the ESS 60 molecule. So these are, these are fascinating results. We have a, we have a lot of work to do on this, but it's pretty amazing. I'm pretty excited to be where I'm at. And and it's, you know, all of this is in the book live longer and better and and excited that I get to come on shows like yours and and share this research. Yeah, no, for sure, man.

I'm I'm excited for you. Can you? Can you elaborate a little bit on the production process without getting any trade secrets away like anybody? Like how is it produced? Yeah, so the reason it's so expensive is you actually have to vaporize 2 graphite rods in an inner environment in the absence of oxygen. So you have to have a vacuum chamber. Graphite is one of the hardest materials on the planet to

vaporize. So you have to use local temperatures of the sun to get this molecule to to get the graphite to vaporize. It's it when I say local temperatures of the sun, there's a site glass. You have to have welders goggles or you'll burn out your retina. If you let that sun that that light shine on your chest, you'll get a sunburn. So this is local temperatures of the sun. Now what comes out of that is a soot, we call it a fullerenic soot.

And that fullerenic soot only has about 10% of fullerenes. So 90% of that is garbage. So you have to separate the 90% which is garbage. And now you take that 10% which is not pure ESS 60, right? It's, it's multiple components of different fullerenes. So now you have to separate that with a chromatography process, get that.

So you've isolated it to, we typically, well in health applications, we use 99.99% pure condition of the molecule, like isolated molecule and and then you've got to mix it into oil. It turns out this molecule does not dissolve in oil easily. It takes three weeks to get the molecule to dissolve in oil. I mean literally, if if you and I were like to brainstorm and we want to start a supplement company, we would probably stay away from this one because the manufacturing process is so hard

and challenging. And I'm assuming the the oil it's just as its fat soluble it it just has a better absorption rate bound to. The oil, so, so you can though it is, there's a black powder when we're done, when it's fully processed, you can consume that black powder. It's totally safe. But that black powder is not water soluble. So you'll, there's very little bioavailability and like most of that like 99% you're just going to excrete right away. By the way, I haven't, I haven't

touched on this. This molecule is actually a naturally occurring molecule. If you collect the soot from a candle, right? So typically you would take a cold steel plate, hold it over a candle and you get that really dark soot. That soot has parts per million or parts per billion of the ESS 60 molecule. So we have all literally all of us have been exposed to this molecule, but just that such minute quantities, right. So this molecule has been with us through the eons.

We just haven't had enough to to to actually get to dissolve. So it's not water soluble when you take those crystals, right? It's kind of like sugar crystals or salt crystals and you put it in the oil, those crystals breakdown and they get down to the monomolecular layer. So each individual soccer ball ESS 60 molecule is now floating around and you can imagine that's almost infinitely more bioavailable.

And just for some kind of amazing stats, one drop of our product has more than 400 times as many of the ESS 60 molecules in it. One drop, then you have cells in your body. That's how small the molecule is, right, 'cause we have trillions of cells, one drop has 400 plus times more of the molecule than you have cells in your body. Wow. So what what do you think the the the roadblocks have been like? Why has this not just taken the world by storm and become mainstream?

Is it just all the bureaucratic red tape from the FDA? Well, I, I, I, I, I think that the FDA doesn't necessarily hurt or, or help us in this situation, right? We're, we are having to figure out how to navigate those waters appropriately. And like I said, cross the TS and dot. The IS, I think the biggest hindrance is that, that there's, there's no patents available here, right? You cannot patent this material. The lifetime has passed that you could patent it.

And so big pharma is not going to get into this. It doesn't mean that we won't get it in, you know, make it ubiquitous. I think we're doing that. We're going to do that. You also have a couple other challenges, which I think are are fascinating. The the the the strongest research, right? And, and again, it's in West are rats. So there's, you know, some caveats there. And some people were like, I don't care, I'm not going to take it. And I respect that.

I look at the results that I have, I look at the, that study and I think it makes a lot of sense. But that's about longevity. I, I actually did a longevity summit. I interviewed 55 experts in longevity, including, you know, Ben Greenfield, Dave Asprey, Stephen Gundry. And one of the things that came clear out of that longevity summit and, and one of, let me start here. So often when I tell people about the study where the rats live longer, I get 2 responses.

The first response is, if they're New Yorkers, they're like, why would we want rats to live longer? Chris, you're an evil person for even bringing this up. You need to bury that research, right? That's obviously facetious. And then the response from a lot of other people is, why would I want to live longer? And when I interviewed the 55 experts, I asked every one of these longevity experts, how long do you intend to live and how long can humans live? Do you believe that humans can

live? And only three of the 55 experts gave the same number because people currently cannot separate living longer from living infirmed, right? So when they say why would I want to live longer, what they're really saying is why would I want to live longer in an infirmed state? And I have very little arguments

for that. But if I change the question like, hey, Robert, if you have the same mental capacity that you have today and you have the same physical capacity that you have today, would you then be interested in living longer? And that really shifts it. So the thing that really is amazing about this in the research is something that most people are not that interested in. That's one of the problems. Yeah, it is.

It is peculiar, man. Like people, they, I mean, there's so much that we know now about how to hedge the bets in your favor for living a more vibrant life. And yet so few people capitalize on that, like simply prioritizing sleep, eating better food, moving your body more like just the bare bones basic. People are hesitant to do those simple things. It's it's, it's a strange world we live in, man.

I I agree. But I this, this is promising though, especially when you when it comes to like, I like it from a prophylactic standpoint. Like if you're, I mean, incorporating a teaspoon of olive oil into your day is is no big ask by any means, but from an acute setting that I mean, I feel like there's got it. I feel like the first trials done, I think the the C reactive protein would be incredibly

insightful. But I feel like with the, you know, acute nature of some of these, you know, neurological declines obviously that have taken place over a lifetime. But the acute setting, you know in those later phases like seeing how that shakes out with this as an input as a variable would be eye opening to say the least.

Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think that there's, there's so much opportunity and maybe that's some of, you know, of, of the challenges we've got, you know, limited budget and I'm trying to manage what are the paths that are going to have, you know, the quickest response so that that we can then get this into more hands. But I would like to share, I think, you know, for you and your audience, right, you're about pushing your body. I've got 1 testimonial that I

think is pretty phenomenal. Yeah, what you get. So one of the guys, he actually works booths with us because he loves our product so much and his name is Anthony Kunkel and he's a two time US ultra running champion. Yeah, I've had. Him on the podcast. He and I are pretty good friends. OK, Yeah, Yeah. No. So he loves our product. I I need to, I need to, I need to counsel with him. Hey, you should have mentioned our product. Yeah, he's a good, but he.

Yeah, and and so you know how analytical he is too, right? He's not just a guy who's like, let me try this and see what happens. No, he's like, let me document it. Let me get off of it. Did you get that impression from him? Yeah, yeah, I had him out here. I lived with him. We went for a run together. He was actually in the faster study, Volex, faster study way back in the day when it was first, you know, presented. So yeah, he knows his stuff.

Yeah, yeah, he's super analytical and, and my first conversation with him I thought was was fascinating. He said, Chris, I, I started taking one teaspoon of your formula. I didn't really notice anything. And then I tripled the serving and I was like, wow, this could be the difference between having running as a hobby and having running as a career. And he's cycled on off. It's, you know, he starts on our MCT for kind of weight management because he's running so far, you got to be super

lean. Then ends up on our olive oil product because it has a higher concentration. And what he says is I don't believe that it speeds recovery. I believe that it prevents damage in the 1st place. And the reason he said that is because on the last five miles of A50 mile run, a phrase you don't hear very often where strength and stability used to be a problem, they're not a problem. And he also kind of draws this

parallel. If it's speeds recovery, then my, you know, whatever 11 day recovery is now 5 days. But he's just coming out of 30 mile runs, waking up, you know, going to bed feeling wrecked. You know, he even described one to me. He was like, I went to the bathroom in the middle of the day of the night, you know, I feel pretty wrecked, but I wake up the next morning and I can

actually train again. So this is somebody who's pushing their mitochondria to the mitochondrial limit, whatever that is, he's doing it and and reaping some some really or reporting some good benefits from from our product. Yeah, that that's super impressive, man. I mean, I, I, I put him in high regard, so I'll definitely have to talk to him about it. And he's no, I mean, he's no stranger to hard work and long miles. So I mean, if he's saying that, that stands for something.

Yeah, he, he's amazing. I was so lucky he was running. So we're in Houston and my wife and I have often run the Houston half marathon and he was going to come down and run a marathon. It was like, man, just come stay with us. It was so cool to have him, you know, hang out with my kids A2 time US ultra running champion. You know who just is wired different, right? It's so cool to be around people who are wired different. And what a what a joy we have.

We have a great time when we get together. I I consider him a really good friend. Yeah, No, that's awesome, man. Very cool, very cool. Well, what, what what's in the pipeline for you, man? You're doing these conferences, you're going to these conventions. What, what's what's the next? What's the bottleneck coat in your back? And what? What's the next thing in the

queue? Yeah, I think, well, you know, from a marketing side, we're working on how do we consolidate our messaging, how do we get our messaging to, to a broader audience, right. Cuz if we're just doing longevity, there is an audience and they'll listen and they'll actually be interested in the story and then they'll, you know, they'll try the product and, and reap the benefits.

But we really kind of to get more mainstream, we need to be talking about the focus and energy aspect of it, the separate sleep aspect, which I think is, really has a, has the strongest potential. So we're, you know, we're working on marketing strategies around that. I'm continuing to get onto big shows like yours. Share the message. I think it's a compelling message. And, and, and then going to these conferences, we hadn't been going to conferences.

We just started last year. In fact, the first conference I ever went to was the Biohacker Expo in Miami and we're about to go to that. That's at the end of February. I just interviewed her recently, Sandy Martin, and she's she's got a great story about how she got into biohacking and then started this conference. She used to, she used to actually put on Comic Con, so she knows how to run big events. So I'm looking forward to going into that one.

We're also going to Tim Gray, the, you know, UK's greatest biohacker, his moniker or something like that. He's been having an event called Health Optimization Summit in the UK. He's finally bringing it to the US That's in Austin. And then Dave Asprey's biohacking conference will be going to that. So that's kind of our, our plan there. If you've got any ideas, if you can lend any sort of help, connect me with anyone to to, to get this into more hands, I'm

you know, I'm all ears. You ought to go to that Hack your Health conference in November in Florida. I'll, I'll be speaking at that when it's typically, it was previously always done in Austin and it was Keto Con, but they've rebranded to Hacker Health. They'll be in Florida this year in November, but that might be a good one for you to check out too. And I'll be speaking. Here. Yeah. I saw that you had spoken at Keto Con. You probably know Ben Azadi, right?

Yeah, yeah, we're good friends. Yeah, he's, he's a, he's a great guy. I'm going to, I think I'm doing IG live here soon to promote his episode coming out. Yeah, you know, that wasn't on my radar and it should be. It was unfortunate this last year that it was in, it was the same weekend as Dave Asprey's biohacking conference. So maybe they've fixed that and and I can get to both of them. Yeah, they don't have overlap now. So they're they're not competitive in that regard.

So yeah, I would love to see at a conference, man. That would be, that would be super cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm absolutely about how do I get in front of people who are interested in the story or would be interested in the story and then, you know, tell the story and if it, if it works for them, great. One, one of the unique things about my situation, I think, think I, I hopefully did a good job of sharing this.

I never, not only did I not want to be in the supplement industry, I actually tried not to get into the supplement industry. So if somebody looks at it and goes, you know, it's just a rat study. It's not for me. I, I'm not personally offended. I didn't, you know, go into a lab and create this stuff. You know, I describe it this way. I think, I think people typically get into the supplement industry one of two ways. The first is they wake up, decide they want to make a lot

of money. They decide they're going to do with this supplements. And I have no problem with people making a lot of money. It's just not how I ended up here. And then the other is, you know, the, the the classic pain to passion, right? Like they've got the health challenges of a loved one or of themselves. They dig into the research, they figure out an answer and now they want to save the world. Hopefully you understand, I'm not against people saving the

world. I just didn't end up here. I've been manufactured acturing this crazy ESS 60 molecule. They thought it would be toxic and instead of being toxic, it was, you know, extended life by 90%. And now I'm just trying to be a Good Shepherd of of the product and and get the information to as many people as possible. Yeah, I mean, if your, if your motives are pure, man, I mean, that speaks volumes and that holds true. And that that's what it should be like.

I mean, I got into a food production company with no intention of making a product either. I was just scratching my own itch and it became what it is today. And I feel like when you've got that kind of origin story, just holds more weight because people can relate with it better, you know? Yeah, yeah. And it's and it's of pure heart. So that's that's amazing. 100% ma'am. Well, awesome. I'm super excited for what you

got cooking. Where do people go to find out more about you, The product, the research, all that good stuff? Excellent, so we made a URL for your audience. So it's my vital CC as in carbon, so my vital c.com/keto Savage in case unless you wanted something else. That's fine. Yeah, good. So my vital c.com/keto Savage, on that page they will find a coupon code for $15 off their original order. So don't go to the homepage, go to the Keto Savage page.

Let me share a couple of things. We have 3 oils, olive oil, MC, avocado oil and MCT oil. We always recommend the olive oil for two reasons. The 1st is we're a science based organization and all the sciences on olive oil, the ESS 60 molecule in olive oil. So that's the first recommendation. The second reason we recommend it is there's a higher concentration of the ESS 60 molecule in olive oil versus the other three.

There's .8 about .8kg per milliliter in olive oil, about .6 in avocado, and about .3 in MCT. I'll share kind of what I tend to do. My coffee is like a bulletproof coffee kind of thing. Bulletproof coffee typically has MCT and ghee or purified butter. I don't want that purified butter calories, so I don't do that. But I do take our MCT in the coffee while that's blending because it's water and oil. You want to blend it, and that's about a teaspoon and 1/2 of the

MCT. I take a teaspoon and a half of our olive oil while that's happening, while that's blending. And then for lunch, if I'm having a salad, I'll often have our avocado product on it. But if you're wondering, just do the olive oil. Nice. Next thing, olive oil tastes better anyway, so. Yes, yeah. And it is a high quality extra virgin olive oil. We do get some people who aren't used to it. A high quality extra virgin olive oil will leave a peppery flavor at the back of your throat.

So we get some people like, is it rancid? It's peppery. It's like, no. That means it's actually a really high quality extra virgin olive oil. You, you may have been to a restaurant where they, you know, they pour an Italian restaurant and they'll pour the olive oil and they'll crack some pepper in it. They're actually trying to make inexpensive olive oil taste expensive with that peppery flavor. So yeah, it's high quality.

Next thing is we have a 25% discount if you go on subscription, you can cancel that at any time. We have our customer service team has like 1005 star reviews. They're amazing. They're amazingly knowledgeable, they're courteous, friendly. They're there to help you out. They're not there to talk you out of cancelling your subscription. So take, even if you just want to get one bottle, take advantage of that.

My book is available on Amazon. It's called Live Longer and Better. It's 20 bucks on Amazon. It's 20 bucks on our site. It's not on that landing page. You can find it in the menu. But we are doing something special. If you order the book with me signing it, I'll sign it for you. There's a $10 extra charge, but the full $10 goes to Operation Underground Railroad. You may remember a movie, The Sound of Freedom. I happened to see him speak

before that movie came out. That movie is, you know, gut wrenching. I'm so happy he's managing that because I don't know if I could survive in that environment. And so we're just trying to support him. So 100% of the signature fee goes to Operation Underground Railroad. And then I do have a podcast. I'd love to actually have you on my podcast. It's called Live Beyond the norms. You can go to livebeyondthenorms.com and, and subscribe to that any place. And I am actually trying to grow

my IG account. So if you could go to instagram.com/my Vital CC has some carbon and follow me, I would be so much appreciative. We put out a lot of good shorts on Some of them are talking heads, some of them are clips from interviews. It's it's just great content and, and so please follow me there. Awesome, I can easily link that to all those make it easy people

to find you. As far as any of the studies, ongoing studies, trials that are coming to fruition, those will all be available on your site as well. Yeah, yeah. Everything that we're working on you can find on the on the site, the publication, we've got one publication that's done with the original researcher, that Doctor Fathi Musa. Another one is in like where we've got it submitted to a couple of publications. So we're trying to get that published. And then we've got two more study.

We got one more study that we're about to start. It's very expensive study and so we will end up having four papers published with that original researcher. And then hopefully by then we will kind of have diverted honestly away from the rat study and towards a human trial related to C reactive protein. Awesome man. Well, I'm super excited to see the results of that, so definitely keep me posted. There's anything I can do to help you man, you just let me know.

Well, we can talk off air, but yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll reach out to you. Sounds great, Chris. I appreciate you brother. Thanks Robert, this is awesome. Take care man, have a good one.