How The Keto Diet Can Heal Your Body & Mind

Started coming up about on two years trying this whole keto journey and it all kind of resulted in or was sparked by a brain injury. So I was not biking with a friend. Next thing I knew, you know, I was waking up in the ICU and I had no idea really how I got there. Discussion with the 6mm brain hemorrhage inside this injury really led me to start investigating diet. I feel like the medical field doesn't have a good grasp of what to do for recovery for a

mental injury. The time that I went ketogenic, I reduced my antidepressants by 3/4 and within those two weeks of starting the ketogenic therapy, I noticed a brain clarity that I didn't that I didn't recognize as having before and my energy levels went through the roof. It was absolutely crazy. And I just overall I felt better. I think it's been helpful for our whole family. And we are live, John. How are you, brother? I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Thanks, Robert.

How you doing? I'm good man, I'm excited to be chatting with you. So to give the listeners some context, you had emailed me after one of my newsletters that I sent out every Sunday and you were like asking me about macro distributions. You said that you've had some TBI injuries and you were trying to focus on the higher fat ratio, keep the ketones up. You got a type 1 diabetic daughter and you're just rocking it with the keto approach.

And I'm like, man, this is this is a conversation that we need to have on a podcast right here. So here we are. Yeah, man, totally. I'll, I mean, we can get more into it, but yeah, it started coming up about on two years and trying this whole keto journey and it all kind of resulted in or was sparked by a brain injury I had. So I was not biking with a friend. And you're in Southern California just maybe a few minutes from my house. And it was just like any other

morning. I went out there and, you know, we weren't pushing it. It wasn't one of those mornings where it's just, you know, you're not trying to show anybody up or prove yourself out there. And next thing I knew, you know, I was waking up in the ICU and I

had no idea really how I got there. Very little recollection of anything leading up to it. And, and, yeah, I mean, they honestly, like I, I didn't really have any kind of understanding of what concussions were or brain injuries. You know, I've heard about them from like the TV football and like what not my my thought was always like, hey, you're getting paid millions of dollars. Get back out on the field and like play like, you know, justify your worth out there.

And you know, the, so I, I, yeah, I'd taken a couple weeks off of work and it was actually, I, I remember feeling kind of stoked. I was like, hey, I don't, there's no, I'm not in any physical pain or what not. And I think things are going to be good. It's just going to be one of those injuries. Just recover. And it kind of reinforced everything I felt or like, yeah, kind of thought about concussion. It's like no big deal.

And it wasn't until two weeks in, I went and sat down right here in my garage in front of my computer to go to do work. And I just got bombarded by a lot of stuff, the screen and like going on to meetings and whatnot. And then it was at that point I realized, wow, this is actually a little gnarlier than I thought.

So me being who I am and we can talk more about it later, but you know, I, I decided to just like I, I figured I could push through just like a lot of things I've done in the past. I've been an endurance runner and gotten some ultra marathons done in the past. 100 Miller up at elevation and Big Bear Lake. So like between 7 and 10,000 elevation and whatnot. So I was like, it's just like one of those, you know, you just keep pushing. It's going to, it's going to get

better. But yeah, things didn't get better for me. So. So what, like was your buddy that you were biking with, did he see it all happened? Like, like what happened? Do you even know? Yeah. Good question. I don't know. I just remember. So my buddy, he's he's actually the one that got me into ultra running originally and then he got me into mountain biking and riding with him.

He's more of like like the the endurance fast guy will go out there and ride and I'm more of like the ascendant guy, like I want to go and hit the jumps and stuff like that. And I remember doing the climb up to the to, to our apex and about to do the descend. I remember the last thing I remember is ask him, do you want to go first or should I go 1st? And he said, you go 1st. And I remember feeling at that point just being like, OK, like I don't have to wait behind him.

I can kind of go at my own speed and flow down this this hill. And I went down and I didn't, he said he, he ended up seeing me to the side on this, on this downhill and he thought like, you know, I was just taking some time to myself. He didn't know if I'd fallen or what not. But he said he got to the bottom of the hill and waited about 5 minutes and I hadn't come back. I hadn't gotten down there. And so he made his way back up the hill and he said I was kind

of coming too. And I told him to just keep going to go on without me, that I'm fine and what not. But we didn't, we didn't know, but now we know. It's like you shouldn't try and get anybody out of that situation. Move. I'm like, we should have just called the the ambulance at that point and airlifting me. But I ended up walking down the hill. We were going to a Bible study at the time. So we had some buddies come in to meet us for a Bible study that was supposed to start after

the ride. And they came and picked me up and, and ended up taking me to the ER. And my wife tells me it's at that point like the ER is kind of started hustling like right when I got there and whatnot. Like I didn't look that beat up. But yeah, I was, I was pretty messed up. Man, and you were wearing a helmet I'm assuming, right? Wearing a helmet, man.

Yeah. Yeah, I was. Dang, and do you know if you hit like a tree or do you even know what you hit? So I, I have been, I have been back since. And so what's crazy is like, I've seen the spot where I've fallen and it's like this really kind of like smooth, smooth, kind of like sandy rock area. And I think like if you've ever ridden your bike like in a, in a gutter where there's like moths or anything, your wheels will just go out right away. There's no time to react or

anything. And I think my wheels just slid out and there's, there's, there was no indication of me being able to like put my hands up or anything, protect myself. And so that's kind of like, that's really the only understanding I have of the, of the actual fall. And because there was no indication of me trying to protect myself in the fall, like the first stop for a lot of doctors was like, you know, like something happened, he passed out, like there's something wrong with his heart.

So I had to go through like a bunch of heart exams and stuff like that. And everything came back fine. And so, yeah, yeah, it was, it was a lot scarier at first because I thought for sure like, you know, I passed out. There's no, no reason why I should just fall like that without any indication of me trying to protect my head or

anything like that. And so but yeah, since visiting, it took a little bit of courage to go back there and just kind of see where I'd fallen and kind of revisit that. I thought even though I had no recollection of it, I remember feeling a little anxious about just going there and yeah, and what's what's even crazy man, I, I totally attribute this to the grace of God is just I remember being at at church.

It was like 4 months later and I remember my buddy coming up to me who avid mountain bike rider around here. He's like, you won't believe it. I just heard this too. Another guy about the same age as me, maybe a few years older, had two kids. He found the same exact spawn

was paralyzed from the waist down. And I was like, wow, man, that's. The one. So do you. Like what? What is the time block that you can't recall at all? Like from when to when? Is there just total darkness in your mind? Yeah. So it was. It happened like around, I'd say about 6:00 in the morning and I would say my memory starts to come back probably like around 12:00 or 1:00 in the afternoon. And it's, it was spotty at that point. I just kind of remembered just

certain points. I remember certain people who came to see me and just check in and what not. But yeah, I guess I, I don't know. My wife tells me I was acting kind of belligerent saying that I wanted to go back out and ride like I was fine and ready to get back out there. But yeah, I wouldn't. I mean, yeah, I, I was in no pain and I felt I I just kind of remember it just slowly coming back that just the memories and or at least the yeah. That's crazy man.

It's like no, no scrapes or scratches or bruises or anything. Like it was just swelling in your brain but you had the helmet so it wouldn't be like external noticeable factors are just all internal, right? Well, there was there, there was some and I probably, I, I probably expanded a bit on that. So yeah, I had broken bones in my face and it, it did look like I had, I had definitely hit my face and like I've been banged up, but nothing to like the

actual damage that I had. So I had a concussion with a 6mm brain hemorrhage inside. So the whole thing was like if it was going to stop bleeding and what not and so or if like the swelling was going to keep going and you know, luckily everything did. So yeah, I did. I definitely had the right side of my face. I think there's about 6 broken bones and but it it just some there, there was swelling. But honestly like within a couple days it didn't didn't really look that bad.

And I think that was kind of like one of the harder parts of the beginning of my recovery is like things didn't look bad on the outside, but it was all in my head. And it's like I, I, I've come to learn like it's one of the one of the harder injuries for that, for that reason. It's like you can't see what's going on and. So and when, when did this happen? This was so it's it's actually easy to remember. So I'm coming up on the two year anniversary.

So it was July 1st. It was like right halfway in the year, so like the halfway mark of the year. So July 1st, so that 2023. Yeah, that's wow. And do you bike it all now or you kind of like not so much? Yeah, no, you know what I do And I I at first, maybe I was a little hesitant, but I definitely don't do this. Like I don't try to push it, especially after like that whole incident where I went out and I knew wasn't one of those mornings where you just want to go go hard or anything.

It was just a casual ride. And and that happened and, you know, like a lot of things got put before me and I was, I was, I was a little shaking because like, you know, I didn't, I didn't kiss my wife on the way out that morning. I didn't go kiss my kids or what not, and not that I usually do that, but it, it made me realize like, dude, life can go for me just like that. And so I'm a little bit more calculated now with some of the things that I do.

That said though, like I've been super intentional about I'm not going to be, I'm not going to live life in fear and I don't want my kids to see that either. And so since then, I've taken my son out mountain biking and shown him like, Hey, your dad, I have had this, but that's not going to hold me back. You know, life is going to throw stuff at you. I had a hard recovery. You saw a lot of that. But you know, we're still going to get back out there.

We're going to enjoy it, but we're we're just going to be calculated. We're going to approach things a little differently. So. Yeah, and that's the key, man. You can't live life in fear.

And it's like, I've, I've been lucky not have any crazy injuries with lifting, but the one time I had an injury, it wasn't even a heavyweight. It wasn't anything expected. Like that's, that's typically when it happens, like when you don't even expect it. But I mean, you can't stop doing what you love. You just got to get back on the saddle, as they say and keep rocking and rolling, man. So that's awesome that you're showing your kids that too.

100%, man, yeah. And and you were not keto prior to that accident, you started doing that as a way to kind of improve your recovery. Yeah. So yeah, this is this is this was kind of like this injury really led me to start investigating diet because I kind of told you earlier, like my background is, is ultra ultra running, which your buddy Michael Mcknight's out there on the Coco donut 2:50 today. Yeah, he's killing it.

Yeah, he's killing it so, but yeah, so like I, you know, like having that ultra running background and just growing up too. Like I, I feel like I've been fortunate enough I don't have to, I've never had to be mindful of what I, I've, I, I eat, you know, like I've always been active. I've always, I think genetically I'm more inclined to have like a more muscular stature. So I've never looked like I was gaining weight if I had bad

eating habits or what not. And I wasn't always active every part of my life, but given the, the ultra running and stuff like that, it was always carb heavy, you know, I was always focused on getting carbs, getting energy, whatever it was. And maybe some of the worst carbs too, like with just like sugars, like I was eating straight up Skittles and gummy bears and stuff like that just to get that quick energy. And so I'd never really thought of it.

And, you know, after the accident, that was kind of after the accident, I kind of continued life the way I had prior to the accident, you know, are taking in adult beverages

and substances and eating what I wanted and not really taking care of my body, thinking like, Oh yeah, food is just, you know, it's just energy. It's just to give you energy and get out there. And I remember it was my wife and I was celebrating our anniversary out in Ojai, California. And this was what was maybe 2 months after, after the injury. And I remember Ojai's kind of known for, it's kind of like yoga mysticism stuff. And so we had these yoga, what do you call them yogis or

whatnot. They came into our room and to give us massages and whatnot. And I kind of told her about my injury and she, she told me about this doctor said this guy, Doctor Ayman, you got to hear about him and he's got a lot of like good supplements and stuff that you should take. And you know, I kind of, I, I dismissed it. I kind of put it in my back pocket. I was like, you know, I'm fine. I don't need any of this yoga mysticism stuff. But it wasn't until like month

3, still struggling. My wife ended up, it was kind of like against I, I didn't really didn't want to do this at the time, but she's like, Hey, let's go to the church. You need some prayer. We need your elders to get around you and just pray around you. And I was like, all right, if that'll make you happy,

whatever. I'm getting through this, but let's go. And you know, I felt like the Lord really touched me there, but it was afterwards, there's one of the elders came to me and he's like, hey, my wife went through a hard time and she really, she took these supplements from this guy, Doctor Amon, and it really helped in her recovery. And I was at that point it kind of clicks like, hey, all right, Lord, are you trying to tell me something with this Doctor Amon? Like why is it Amen too?

It's like I'm gonna go check him out. So I checked him out and you know, I'm, I'm not saying he's like a, he's a God person or anything, but I just felt like it, this was like just kind of led me down this path and I ended up checking him out. I remember being, I think it was maybe October 16th at, at work, just having a hard day in the office. I was like, I'm just going to

check out his book. And I found his book online, started reading it. And one of the last things he said, he's like, Hey, I know a lot of this, these supplements and stuff that you can buy, a lot of people can't afford them. He's like, but if there's one thing you can do, he's like change your diet. He's like go to a low carb, high fat diet. So I was like, I was going through, through hell at this point. Like the days were just so hit and miss for me.

And I was like, I have nothing to lose. So I did it. And yeah, it was, it's within two weeks. It was like drastic change. And I was like, Oh my goodness, I had no idea food could affect you in this way. And it was at that point that kind of started my journey towards like, ketogenic stuff. Started looking at just hearing different podcasts, listening to different people. And yeah, that was really, really the start of it. That's awesome, man.

So when you were when you were like through the thick of it and your work was hindered, everything was hindered. Like what? What was that manifesting itself like? That was just hard to concentrate, hard to focus. Like what? What did that look like for you? Yeah, man, that's a, that's a great question. And it like the biggest thing was, was like my depression and it was just these mood swings and just like some of the thoughts and the feelings that

I'd have like to be real. Like I'd have these thoughts of like, why is my wife with me? Like she shouldn't be with me. I can't keep up with her. I can't do the things that she

wants to do with my kids and what not. And just having those thoughts of like I don't even want to be here. And I have never really been that type of person. And then, you know, I think a lot of it too was just the, the ego and the pride that I think a lot of US men get with like our work and just the, you know, we,

we put a lot into our work. And like when that's taken away from you and it's like my, my ment as I'm a software engineer, my mental ability to be able to sit and think through and try and type code like that was gone. And I was like, what am I going to do? I can't even provide for my family at this point. Some background, I was on a disability claim as well too, which took me a month to finally tell my wife and agree with my wife like hey, there is something wrong with me.

I will finally admit that I'm disabled but nobody can see that. But I am disabled and that was hard, hard in itself. And so I just felt really insufficient as a man, I think, and I think a lot of those thoughts and those feelings crept in. And also like there was a time to where I became really convicted of because, because I was not really changing my life up until about 3 months in, there was a point I got really

convicted. I felt like the Lord put a conviction on my heart about how I was taking care of my body and how my kids were seeing me take care of my, my body. You know, I was still drinking, I was smoking, I was eating what I wanted. And I was like, I got convicted and I was like, what are you doing dude? Like you have a family, you have a purpose in this world, like you're not doing anything to help yourself out in this

situation. And that was also around that time of when I found the ketogenic therapy. And I remember, yeah, just feeling super depressed day in

day, outgoing for when I used to be able to go for 10 to 15 mile runs. I'd be feeling fine physically go for a run a mile or two and just feel like crap. And then that would just lead to a week's bout of depression after that, and then feeling frustrated about not being able to do this stuff that I was physically capable of before. And so I think just all that, just the physical abilities, my mental abilities and just feeling insufficient as a man.

And I think those are the things that really, really got to be in the end and really not really knowing what I could do to recover. I think a lot of what was really hard or challenging is I feel like the medical field doesn't have a good grasp of what to do for recovery for a mental.

A mental injury like I was going to vestibular physical therapy and stuff like that, which is definitely helpful, but there's not like with they don't know like what to pinpoint and what exercises to specifically do for recovery. And it's not to their fault. It's just, it's not like a, you know, like a hamstring injury or anything like that that you can really target and focus and really work on.

And it's hard to see to really quantify like improvements and stuff like that and know that you're doing the right stuff for your recovery, so. It's tough too with like anything neurological, anything psychological. I mean, you got Chris Palmer doing some pretty awesome work in the ketogenic low carb metabolic therapies field, you

know, for mental health. But like most of the, you know, general practice has all been just, you know, antidepressants, SSRIs, and you know, there's a lot of a lot of chemical, a lot of hormonal fluctuations at play. And the idea that you can have a diet that can help mitigate, mitigate against some of that stuff is like foreign to people. People don't think of food in in that that terminology, but it's

so powerful, man. Like when you switched over to Kitty, you said you noticed a difference in two weeks. Like what did you notice that you just felt clear you had something you were excited about. You had to grasp on having some hope. Like what was the the tangible feedback there? Yeah, great question. So like one SEC. Yeah. So like so during this time, like it I mentioned like, yeah, it was kind of it was a low point for me and I was at this point where I was willing to

give anything a try. And that's when I did the ketogenic therapy at you mentioned Chris Palmer. I just want to say this like I've I was started reading that too. And like at the time that I went ketogenic, I reduced my antidepressants by 3/4. I got off ADHD, I was classified as having or Adderall is classified as having ADHD. And within those two weeks of starting the ketogenic therapy, I noticed a brain clarity that I didn't that I didn't recognize as having before.

And my energy levels went through the roof. It was absolutely crazy. And I just overall I felt better. And I, I, I want to be clear, I'm not saying like there's not, I think medications out there. I think people should be using it. Consult your doctor, your physician. And, but I think a lot of the stuff that I was trying to treat and what not was clearly addressed with just like a lot

of dietary changes. And it's, I will say too, like some of those early benefits I saw in the ketogenic approach, like I haven't necessarily felt that same type of energy and that mental clarity and whatnot that I did the first time. But overall I have felt so much better.

Yeah, it's kind of crazy, man. Like I, I made a post the other day on Instagram and like people because I, I talk a lot about it from a performance standpoint. I like you mentioned the e-mail, a lot of people talk about keto in terms of losing weight and cutting fat. And I try to address the other side of spectrum, like building muscle and proving, you know, recovery, reducing inflammation, things like that.

And, you know, mental health, like one of my main reasons for jumping on keto way back a decade ago was because I had really bad OCD and, you know, anxiety and stuff like that. And keto helped mitigate against that. But like so many people, they, they don't ever give it the time of day because they don't have like a specific ailment or acute pain or inflammation or, you know, prognosis. But like, it's almost like a blessing in disguise, man.

Like when you have something that forces you to adopt A better way of eating and living and it happens early on in your life, like you've got that very telling sign pretty early on. And then you just recognize how much of a big, how big an impact it truly makes. And then you just motivated to continue with it for the long haul. And a lot of people don't ever get that.

So they just, you know, chronically, you know, inflamed or not even the right stuff and they never recognize the, the compounding negative effect that takes on a takes takes a toll on until it's too late. So I think, and again, it's never fun to get a a, you know, brain injury like this. But if you're finding out this early on, I mean, you're probably setting yourself up for far better success than if you

hadn't. 100% and yeah, one thing that you, you live to is like, I think a lot of the stuff that that we have nowadays is or like, you know, like common ailments and whatnot are the

result of like choices that have of like years of choices, like compounding themselves and getting us to this place where, you know, we have certain things that just don't feel right. And we try to address it by changing a diet for a week or two. We don't see any success. So we're like, oh, that's not it. But I think like on the opposite side of or the on that same token is like it takes a while to reverse some of these things and get all of our metabolic machinery back in place so that

we do feel good. So I think a lot of the times like different dietary approaches get dismissed because we don't give them time to to really do work. It's like, you know, it's not like a week of eating bad meals is going to make someone fat. It's or like overweight or what not. It's the years of doing that over and over to your body. And it's going to take maybe hopefully not as long, but it's going to take a good amount of time to get out of that. Yeah.

And. Like a lot of people throw me shade because they're like, yeah, but you would be able to build more muscle if you were eating carbs. You got to spike insulin or whatever. But it's like as a natural athlete especially, it's like, I'm pretty convinced that from a health and longevity standpoint, the ketogenic approach is far and above superior to anything else out there when you're playing in the long game and

looking at through that lens. And a lot of people are just too short sighted to view things through that lens. You know, that's why people take performance Hansing drugs, you know, to look a certain way and two months as opposed to make it into the lifestyle factor. But like, you know, hearing people that have diabetes or talking to people like yourself that have had brain injuries and just seeing how how profound the difference a ketogenic diet makes.

It's like if that's happening to to y'all and y'all can tell the difference. So that acute situation, like what is that doing to a healthy individual that has no adverse effects compounded over a lifetime. Like that, to me is all that I need to know to know that this is the path that I'm choosing to take and I've got no reason to deviate from it. Absolutely, man, absolutely. Yeah. It's and it's, it's hard.

And I, I will say like one of the, for me, one of the challenges has been like having that support around and like finding, you know, having a similar mindset or approach. Like I said, I wasn't one that's always been into like nutrition and health and stuff like that. And it, it's hard to to keep doing what you want to do and that's going to impact you positively when like we're bombarded with so much stuff around us, man. And it's like so much negative

stuff. And it's really, it's really unfortunate. And we don't have to get into politics, but I feel really like excited about kind of some of the stuff that the administration's bringing to the forefront. And like at least having people think about like, hey, some of the stuff that we've been putting in our bodies, Like we got to, we got to take a second look at some of this and see what it's doing to to us. And I feel like more so more passionate about like having

three kids. I feel super passionate about what's going into my kids bodies. And like they're at such a crucial stage right now in development And I can't help but like want to just give them the best. And especially having a daughter with type 1 diabetes and seen some of the stuff that's recommended by the ADA and whatnot for a diabetic, I'm like, well, like this doesn't, it really just doesn't work for anybody. I'm just, I feel lucky, blessed

enough that I was turned on to see my daughter's blood sugars. And like, I started wearing ACGM shortly after the ketogenic stuff. And I'd have those days where I would eat a bunch of carbs and it's like, whoa, my blood Sugar's actually doing the same thing. I just have the insulin to bring it down. And if I keep doing that over and over, eventually that insulin's not going to do anything for me. So. How old are your kids?

So I have 11, my son, so my daughter's 11, my eldest daughter's 11. My son is not. He'll be 9 next week. And then I have a six year old daughter as well and it's my eldest. He has type 1. Yeah, Eldest has that point. OK, Yeah. What about your your wife? Is she pretty much on board with keto now because you're following? Are y'all eating the same thing at the house or is it kind of like she's still eating a bunch of carbs? And is that kind of a tension point? Yes, no, I mean it.

I think it's it's hard like when you're it was harder in the beginning because I was, I was being so strict with it. I got to give you a little insight. Like I've come to realize like through this whole recovery process is I'm a person who has two modes, I'm on or I'm off like I'd have with anything I do.

There's no, there's no middle ground and like or moderation and anything I do. So, yeah, I think early on that was hard for her because, you know, she she's a awesome faithful companion and she wants to be that the wife that's providing dinners and putting stuff on the table. And it's like when I would abstain from eating because that's getting me over my 20 grams of carbs. I think like that was hard for her. Like she wants to be the one to take care of her family.

So, but all that said, like she's she's been awesome in the support and she's really done her best to promote like just healthy eating in our in our family and reducing the carbs that are in our household. It's hard having three kids and keeping all snacks and stuff out of the house. That's really, really challenging. But that said, like it's, it's really, I think it's been

helpful for our whole family. And what I've really come to notice is like my daughter and I have really had like a really cool bond over this whole thing. Like I've been wearing ACGM like her. So it's like we're the ones in the house that have the CGM and it's like we've called ourselves the LCC crew, the low carb crew in the house because like now, like, you know, we're trying to keep her carbs low so we don't have to give her so much exogenous insulin.

And I'm trying to keep my carbs low. And so I'm trying to find like meals that are good for us both to eat that are appetizing and whatnot. And you've been super helpful in that, like just turning us on a different recipes, whether it's a chicken Nuggets or the pork and good pizza, it's like they're just stuff that we find. It's like, Hey, it's actually pretty appetizing when when you put a little bit of time into it and effort.

So. Yeah, I mean, there's so many options out there for food and it's it's tough with with kids, especially like if if they've already kind of got their habits in place, then you're trying to transition their diet. Like, I can't imagine what that be like. I feel fortunate because our son, you know, we've been keto for long before he was born. So he was, he was just kind of born into it. Like he doesn't know.

He doesn't know any different, you know, but like, I have a lot of clients that have kids that switched to keto later on. It's like the kids, it's tough, man. Because like they, they have those cravings and desires for certain foods. So getting them to transition would be pretty brutal, I would imagine. But yeah, I mean, there's so many, so many awesome recipes. Like, I don't feel like I'm missing out at all by not eating

the carbs. But like you go to a, a household where this is just not in their dialogue that I mean, they don't even know what a macro nutrient is. So it's like, you don't want to be rude, but you don't want to step away from your goals and aspirations. You know what's best for you. But it's like it's challenging for sure. It's just like anything in life, like it's all a matter of how much you want it.

And you know, what balance do you want to play and how, how close do you want to toe that line? And it's going to look different for everybody, man. But it's awesome that you and her connect on that level and just kind of be each other's support group.

Totally, totally. And yeah, we've, you know, we've chatted about it because like, I think one thing is like, it's kind of been told to us, like you don't want to talk about food too much in your house and you're going to create like eating disorders and stuff like that. But it's like, I don't try to like talk about food is like having like physical bodily changes.

And we try to be mindful of that because it's, that's not what it's about it. But we try to focus on like healthy eating and what that food's going to do to your body inside and how you know how it's going to make your brain function and stuff like that. But it's, yeah, it's, it's hard because I feel like there's a lot of stuff out there that I don't want my kids to be scared of foods either, you know, like,

I don't want them to like, feel like they're poisoning themselves or something like that. But at the same time, I want them to be at least aware and knowledgeable about some of the decisions that they make later on in life. And yeah, And so like I, I, I honestly feel super blessed. Like when I, when I look back on this man, I, I wouldn't take it back. I wouldn't be like, yeah, if I would, if that injury wouldn't have happened, I would take that back.

And like, no, I've been shown so much stuff. And if nothing else, like this has been awesome for me to at least like when my daughter, my daughter is type 1, when she's older, she at least has like some kind of knowledge and understanding of how to eat differently in this world. And she's not just like, I need to just dose for this food that I'm going to eat or what not. It's like, no, you're having

blood sugar issues. Like there's a good food out there that you could have that's no carbs and we can get that blood sugar under control again without giving yourself more insulin. And so I feel fortunate in that in that sense that I've can be used in that way to maybe help show my kids just like a healthy way of eating or at least just open their eyes to a certain things like that. 100%, man. And, and nobody, I mean no parent wants to instill fear in

their kids. Nobody wants them to feel like they're deprived or depleted or, or whatever the case may be. But at the same time, like a lot of I mean, society puts this moderation pressure on people. Like everything's good in moderation, but it just as you said earlier, like you got 2 modes on or off. And I'm the same way. Like there's no, there's no moderating like like I'm on or

off. I'm a switch. Like if I'm in competition prep, it is what it is. Let's buckle up and go. And if I'm not, I'm not. And I feel like the society like cast that in a negative light, but I don't want to look what society looks like. I don't want to act like society acts like, I mean, this moderation, this notion towards moderation or balance. Like I've never really been drawn to that.

Like I want to operate on the extremes and I just feel like people need to be in more encouraging to their kids to be OK with operating on the extremes. You know, I feel like that's what you're doing with your kids, but I'm going to do with mine. It's like there's no shame in going the extra mile and operating outside what normal general society does because and then they who wants to be normal in the 1st place? You know, be, be an outlier, be weird, be an extremist, you

know? Totally, 100%, man. Yeah, it's it's cool. You remind me of it. There's a drawing a blank on his name, but there's a book called The Comfort Crisis. Have you heard of that? Yeah, I haven't read it. I've had several people recommend it. It's, it's, it's pretty good. I, I mean, yeah, like there's a lot of cool stuff in it, but it just kind of brings the light just the modern day comfort that we live in and that we've gotten used to.

Like, you know, like we've, we're more accustomed to living out of comfort, pushing the extreme and doing things that are uncomfortable or that just don't feel right. And I think like, yeah, there's, there's things that we need to consider and like be disciplined about day in and day out because it, it wasn't like this back in the day for our ancestors and

whatnot. Like they didn't have all these nice to eat meals or like all these, I'd say this loosely, but like just high energy carb source snacks. Like it was very different. And yeah, it's a short period of time that we've actually lived the way that we've lived. Well, you're you're an ultra endurance runner by trade, so I would assume that you are totally on board with not being comfortable at all times because that's some pretty brutal training right there, man. It's hard, man.

Yeah, it can be hard at times. And yeah, it's, that's one of the things that really brought really made it a passion of mine is like, I saw the parallels that you can draw in life with it. I mean, with anything that I think you, you kind of push the the human limit to, you can draw parallels in life. But I saw like during those races, the the UPS and the downs are guaranteed. You're going to have hard times. You're going to have times where you just feel good. You want to keep running.

And that could all the way up until the end of the race. And that's, that's just so synonymous with life. It's like there's going to be times where it just sucks and you just want, you want to be done, tap out and what not. But like, along with like ultra running, it's got that idea of if you just keep pushing, it's going to get better, you know, and then when it's good, you can, you know, like, hey, that's a time for you to prepare and prepare yourself for those hard

times. Because it's unfortunate when we miss those opportunities to prepare ourselves and get ready because we know the bad times are going to come, the hard times are going to come. And if we're not ready in those times, then it's just going to be that much harder. And life just doesn't stop for anyone. And so it's. As grace to how much, I mean, you got to be in good physical shape, obviously you got to have

your nutrition dialed in, but it's crazy with running specifically or just endurance work in general. How much of it truly is psychological? Cause like I've done, you know, a few 50 mile events, I've run a marathon, but like nothing crazy. But like there are definitely points in there for me, not as a runner where I'm like, man, this freaking sucks. My feet hurt, I got blisters burst and I feel my shoes

feeling full of blood. Like there's every reason in the world to justify talking yourself out of continuing. But if you just keep putting 1 foot in front of the other and at that point it's just purely mental. Like you just keep putting 1 foot in front of the other, you freaking cross that finish line and you can look back and say I did it, you know, like that's so synonymous with life in general,

man. But like, people, like, I'll look at people on the starting line that I'm like, physically speaking, there's no way they're going to cross this line. That means just impossible. They're they're not going to be able to make it. And then they've got enough wine in the back of their head to keep pushing them. Yeah. And they're freaking. They're freaking blowing these physical specimens out of the water because they've got enough mental fortitude to see it

through the end. So like, I've got utmost respect for endurance athletes that are really tapping into that, you know, mental drive to just keep going, man. It's it's pretty impressive. Yeah, it, it is wild, man. It is. It's I've come to to realize like how much we limit ourselves by what we think about ourselves and what we can and can't do. I remember the, so my apex and this is like maybe just under a year before my accident, I

finished the Big Bear 100K. It goes between 7:00 and 7:00 and 10,000 elevation and it's got 18,000 feet of climbing

total. Took me 32 hours and I didn't sleep at all. And I, I remember prior to that race thinking like, dude, you're going to finish that finish line like crawling and you're going to be like, you know, just Take Me Home or take me to the hospital, Like I need like Ivs and stuff like that. But I remember finishing that, the, the raise. And I remember thinking in my head, like, if I needed to go 20 more miles, I could. And so it makes me think like, well, you know what, what is

that limiting factor in my mind? Other people have alluded to it, but it's like, what's your cut off point? When are you going to say enough is enough? And so I've really been inspired by that, just being able to push your body in that way. And I'll say that with like. Or just like so since the accident, I haven't really we could talk more about this, but I tried to like go back to like my running and it just wasn't working like the my heart rate

would go crazy. I, there was a moment where I felt like I, I had to go to the ER three times. So I thought I was having a heart attack during this recovery phase and like, you know, moods were going all over the place. So I was like, all right, the running's done, done for right now. I just need to like get out. I was started doing like rocking and just walking with my dog getting out there.

And then I, the more I started listening to people podcast and whatnot, I started seeing the benefit of strength training. And that's when I started like lifting a bit more. I was like, you know, I'm just going to go and I'm going to, that's a little bit easier for me to, to get into and maintain without like getting my heart rate all crazy. And yeah, and so I like, I started doing some more more

lifting. But all that said, like this last December, I did my first, my first ultra back and I did it on a ketogenic diet and it was, yeah, it was gnarly, man. I, I say that all with it was hard. And I, I, I see, I see the value of carbohydrates. I'm not saying like all carbs are bad. Like carbs are definitely good. Like I did the first 30 miles, I think I was averaging maybe 15 grams of carbs an hour, something around that. And by mile 30, I just felt like

complete crap. And I reluctantly said give me the Coca-Cola and I the Coca-Cola got me to that to this end. But but yeah, so I say all this cuz like there's like there's benefits in so many different things. And if you don't, since last December, I haven't really done as much running as I should. I've done more of the weight lifting, but like I'll go out and I'll do my longer runs and I'll I'll get to like that mile five mile 6 where like before it was no big deal.

Like that was so easy. But I feel like that mental creep coming in being like you're so tired, like you're done like I and I'm like believing it. And I real started to realize like, dude, your mind is just like a muscle. You don't get it in those places where you're like hurting and you're having to push through, You're going to lose some of that mental fortitude.

And like, I realized how how easy that is to lose because I was so used to being in the training of ultra running where I was out and doing the long hard runs where I had to push through mentally. So yeah, I, I say that because like everything in your body is a, is a muscle. Like we need to maintain like our physical muscles, we need to maintain our mental muscles. And yeah, we just. 2 is like

perspective, like the hardest thing you've ever done is always going to be the hardest thing you've ever done. And as you continue to do harder and harder things, your perspective of what is hard, you know, adapts and changes. But like, I think a lot of people fail to realize that perspective is also like a muscle in the sense that if you're not keeping that top of mind and like really, you know, vivid, you totally forget what that limit was.

Because I mean, I got to that 50 mile March every year and every year I'd do it and I completed, but a year passes in between me doing it each time. So like, I forget how bad it sucks. And I know since I've done it that I'll continue to do it and I'll finish it no problem. But every time I'm surprised that man, like this freaking

sucks, you know? But if I were to do that on a more regular basis, probably wouldn't be an issue when I'm lifting, you know, like I'll still get psyched out about doing heavy squats. And I do squats pretty much every week. But if I let two or three weeks pass between me doing a heavy set of barbell squats, it's like that perspective gets a little little hazy. You know, it's like, man, what is going on here? I've done this a million times. But you got to like, keep, keep

on the razor's edge. Keep on, you know, bringing that top of mind. And I feel like it's really easy to just do a hard thing, feel good about yourself, and then just go back to living normal life without keeping that on the forefront. But you got to freaking keep on the forefront, man It's crazy. Totally, totally. I've been reminded of, I think, yeah, that's just like human nature for us to like forget stuff. But I've been reminded of like of women and like the childbirth

that they go through. Like that's got to be so hard,

so hard. But how quick we are to forget about like all that pain and like, but they still endure and they still go through. And I've been super impressed with what I mean, my wife, I've seen like her go through some really tough stuff and not to mention the three children that she birthed. But like, it's just like, I feel like it's human nature for us to just forget how hard things are. And we're if we're not at it, we don't train it. Yeah, don't use it. You lose it.

So. Yeah, no, 100%, man. That's why like I'm a big advocate kind of going back to we live in soft times right now. You got to have something that you do like every single day. Like obviously you wouldn't want to run an ultra marathon every single day, probably wouldn't want to do heavy squats every single day, but you got to do something every single day that at least keep keeps you honed in, keeps the the edge sharp, so to speak.

Like for me, that's lifting, you know, for you might that might be running your, you know, 1015 mile run. But it's like, man, how many people don't do anything that just like requires, you know, exerting a significant amount of effort on a regular basis. Like that to me is just a built in. Like you got it. It's hard to get motivated sometimes a lace like your shoes or dust off the iron or whatever the case may be.

But like, if you don't find something that you chip away at in some form or fashion every single day, you are 1000% getting worse over time because like, there is no such thing as maintenance. You're either getting better or you're getting worse. And if you can't find something that you can hone in on every single day, then it's going to come time to pay the piper at some end and it's not going to be pretty. Yeah.

Totally, man. I think like there's a along with what you're saying, like having something to do every single day. I think there's a lot of just like a, a lot of just mental gain you get from just being disciplined and doing something every day, 'cause I mean you can

relate. There's days that you just don't feel like doing it. And it's like I've come to realize like especially with like the the ultra running stuff, like my longest run before the 100 Miller was I think 23 miles, not very long at all. But it's like I've come to see like it, it was the day in, day out discipline that got me across that finish line. It wasn't the one big run, like I should have done a 50 mile run

or whatnot. Now it was the IT was the times that I got out there and I didn't want to run. I did put in the 3-4 miles. And it's like, yeah, it's just, it's just that that ability to just hunker down and do something, commit to something and do it when it's good. But also, I think more so do it. Do it when you don't want to, do it when it sucks. That's huge, man. Like, I'm not a runner at all, but I committed to doing a mile a day for a year with a group of guys.

And I mean a mile a day. I mean, a mile is nothing, you know? But like every single day with that fail, that's where the challenge was. I mean, it'd be freaking snowing. Every 3 feet of snow on the ground, I'm going to run a mile in snow. It'd be down pouring. I'm going to run a mile in snow. It'd be late day traveling, driving all day long. I get home at midnight, all I want to do is go to sleep, but I got to go run a mile every day like that is what builds people's mental resolve and

character. And that's what we need more of, man. So 100% agree. Yeah, totally. Great. Well, you, you mentioned the e-mail too, that you were the keto, it helped with, with the, the injury, but you were playing around with your macro distribution and you noticed that you're bumping your protein up and you were seeing a reduction in ketones. And it's funny, man. Like this is honestly one of the things that piqued my interest

in that e-mail. Because like within the carnivore keto space right now, there's this massive push towards eating more and more protein. And I've said it a million times, I'm a huge advocate for protein. I'm not trying to recommend low protein by any means, but a lot of people think that there is no, you know, threshold, that there is no negative effects that come from eating too much protein. But in your case, you were noticing that exact same thing

taking place, right? Like you would bump your protein too high and it would negatively impact everything. Yeah, yeah, totally. I'm yeah, I'm glad you brought this this up because this was a big one for me. And I think in general, like I've come to see keto means so many like a few different things in the community.

I mean, you can get keto snacks that are not keto and I've come to kind of like for, for at least like in the context of my recovery, I've come to see keto as like a, it's a metabolic state where I was in a state of nutritional ketosis where my ketones were above .5 millimoles.

I know for some that's probably a bunch of jargon, but like that's where I noticed like a lot of the benefits were happening for me when I was in the definitely like above 1 millimole for ketones was when I would feel mentally the best and the sharpest and like feeling good and I would notice

fluctuations in my mood and stuff when my ketones would drop. And yeah, so I, I was very, the city is about checking my ketones every morning throughout the day, making sure my blood, my blood sugar levels were good because I also knew if like those are getting too high, like my ketone production goes down and stuff like that. And I mentioned to you like I started like lifting and what

not. And kind of my whole goal for I just passed a year of like committing to getting into the gym was to, I wanted to put on like 10 lbs of of muscle and then start getting back into the endurance stuff and kind of cut down, but see if I can maintain some muscle anyway through through all that. Like I was playing with my macros. I was around like anywhere from

2 to 300 grams of fat per day. And then I was at like, I was keeping it like below 180 and I wasn't really seeing a lot of gains in like my, my weight and my, my muscle size, I guess. And so I was like, you know, I'm going to bump it up. And I started bumping up the, the protein and I saw my minimals, my ketone minimals dropped to like point 1.2 and I couldn't, if I was going above 200, I'd notice drastically my

ketones would be down. And it wasn't until I got, I ended up realizing, I don't know if you know who Matt Bazooki is. Yeah. So I, I was listening to some of his videos about like what he eats and what not, and he actually recommended like being around 150 grams of protein. And I noticed like that was kind of the sweet spot for me with protein for keeping my minimals where I wanted them, at least in that nutritional ketosis range of .5 and higher.

So yeah, that was the that was the hard part. But I started playing more too also with like like, well, I just don't think like that's maybe enough protein for me. So I wanted to bump the protein up. And so I bumped my fat up too. So I was getting up to like 5000 calories a day while working out and doing some little runs.

And I noticed too, like when I increase my fat, like, and protein together, I was noticing that I was able to keep my ketones level higher, but that came with a lot of like, GI issues and whatnot. Like I could, the fat, it was just too much fat for me. Or maybe I needed more adjustment. It's a lot of fat, man. Yeah. It was like, yeah, I think like 3 to 350 grams of fat a day or something like that. And it was, yeah, it was like maybe 200, two, 120 grams of protein. And then.

Yeah. But. Were you gaining much body weight when you were eating that much? I did, yeah, I actually did. I noticed those. It was about two weeks that I did it and I put on, I think I could get 2 to 3 lbs of body weight. But but yeah, I've since cut back down and yeah, I've, I've kind of settled right now on, It's funny that we're having this conversation now because when we originally set this up, I was real, I was very, very strict sitting in that like 150 to 180 grams of protein.

And like, I think it was 200 grams of like 2 to 300 grams of fat somewhere around there. And I think that's what it was. Let me. But anyways, this last month I, so I actually, what is it? I turned, turned 40 on April 4th and so I kind of, I, it wasn't a celebration, but I was camping and what not. And so I was like, you know what, I'm camping. I'm not going to be so, so crazy with like all my macros and what not.

And so I was, and I, I actually, I splurged on the other end and I went and I did the, I, I was hesitant, but I, I, I went and I

did like maybe like 200 grams of carbs and I felt OK. I didn't feel so bad like the way I thought I would. But that said, like I, I did that and I, I realize like the carbs aren't going to so negatively affect me the way they used to in those early stages of recovery where it's like ketones were off, dude. Like totally like your mood's

going down. And so since then I've kind of slowly been introducing carbs and I'm actually like between like anywhere from like 30 to 70 grams of net carbs per day. And I feel like that's maybe kind of like a sweet spot for me. And I've kind of maybe had my

mind opened a little bit. Not not to say like ketogenic doesn't work or what not, but I'm like, it's made me realize like how just our body fluctuates and it's like you need to find things that are good for you and you need to be willing to experiment a little bit. So yeah, that said, I'm I've had a few more carbs.

And, and thank you, man. I mean, you're like, you're deeply fat adapted this point and your output is through the roof, so you're again able to tolerate a lot more total carbohydrates than the average person for sure. But a lot of people don't give it. Like you were kind of forced to be pretty strict with it for a while there because you're trying to keep the ketones higher and that allowed you the time to actually get deeply

adapted. Whereas a lot of people will switch to keto for like 2 weeks, not feel great, and then decide they need carbs again. So that to me, I mean, they're just shooting their self in the foot. Like you got to let yourself get adaptive, establish that baseline, then you can accurately figure out what your threshold and tolerances are. And then once you dial that in,

you know, rock'n'roll. But a lot of people failed to ever get to that point in the 1st place. But yeah, I don't ever want to be dogmatic about nutrition, man. It's like if you're if you're operating great with 70 grams of carbs and rock'n'roll man, who might have stopped you. Yeah, totally. And I I've come to see too, like it's definitely the quality of carbohydrates that you're putting into your body too. I didn't have many of this last weekend, but I had a what was it

like a Trader Joe's? Like I had a, a slicer 2 of like this homemade Trader Joe's gluten free pizza. Didn't it did not do do me well. I was like, OK, that was not many carbs that I had that day, but I clearly noticed like your mood went, it went South and like you did not feel good. My stomach did not feel good. So I when I say carb, like I've been mainly focusing on like berries and stuff like that. It's not, it's not breads, it's not starched and stuff like

that. So. Yeah. There's, there's a certain demographic carbohydrates that are probably not going to serve anybody. So like everybody should benefit from taking those out of the equation for sure. Yeah. You know, grapes have been huge, man. Hey, I'm glad to hear that, man. Yeah, that's been such a lifesaver for me. And I, yeah, I'm fully, fully addicted. I'm definitely on the on mode with those. I am too man, I eat one every day so we're on the same page

there for sure. How you liking the lifting? Like having not come from lifting background and now incorporate more of it? Like are you going to compete on any level within that sphere or is that mostly just a compliment to the endurance sports? You know, it's, it's mostly the compliment. I think we're at this point, I don't really have a desire to, to compete or anything like

that. I've been really like on this holistic health kick, like I told you, I turned 40 and like I really wanting to, it's kind of like, I feel like from what I've read, that's when things kind of start ticking away for like your muscle mass and stuff like that. So I'm like, I'm going to try and hedge my batch and like get some muscle on me and hopefully have something to lose as when that time comes.

But but yeah. And I, I think also too, like with all the, with the running in the past, you're prone to a lot of injuries. And I think muscle mitigates a lot of injuries if you have that. And so I've always had the mindset of you can't be a runner and have muscle, but there's been some people that have kind of opened my eyes to different things. I, I don't know if they're 100% natural or not, but like some of these like high rocks competitors like Nick Bear and

stuff like that. Like I've been super impressed by like just just the, or just turned on by the idea of like, dude, you could put on muscle and actually run like that would be really cool. So. Yeah, no, I think I mean, people, people want to throw these limitations in life and there's certainly probably a better way to optimize for certain outcomes. But the notion that you can't do a blend of all makes no sense. Like I'm, you know, I know a lot of people that are super

successful runners that lift. I mean, Cam Haynes does both. Nick, I've actually got Nick coming on the podcast later this year, so I'll have to pick his brain. That'd be awesome. But yeah, I mean, like, we're supposed to be able to run, we're supposed to be able to move our body, we're supposed to be able to do all these things.

And eating real food certainly helps aid in that. But like, the notion that you can't pair these together makes no sense whatsoever. Totally, totally. Yeah, I just have to it. It's hard because like, I mean, I, I feel super inspired by like it's like I'm also a dad. I'm also someone who's got a lot of commitments with other things. And I would love to commit the time and the effort to be able to train like that.

And but I can definitely be inspired and motivated by the people who have that opportunity to.

So I feel like the fact that you're doing this stuff, I mean, regardless of what level you take it to from a competitive standpoint, like just simply doing it at the level you are currently, I mean, that's going to be like that, that's inspiring your kids in ways that you probably won't even realize until after they've moved out of the house and they're doing their own thing and making their own decisions.

But like seeing their dad doing it, you know, with discipline, with consistent effort, like I think that's, that's going to be probably one of the single best things any parent can do to their children. You know, like showcase to them, illustrate to them what hard work, consistent effort results in. And then they'll be able to take that with them into every aspect of their life. Yeah, 100% man, that's been a, a big motivation of mine.

Like especially like all these like runs, not a ton of runs, but like whenever I do train for runs, like I make sure I try to make sure that my kids are there at all the aid stations and what not the hard times. And so they can see just the the emotions that I go through, but also like. I try to be, I, I let them know like, hey, I'm going out for a run because I'm training for this or I'm doing this. Let them know like there's a, there's a commitment to like

this to like a, a future goal that I'm trying to see come to fruition. And then I want them to be a part of that. And yeah, I think it's super, super important for, to include our family and particularly kids in those moments. And hopefully they glean stuff from it. And like you said, I don't think they will forget their stuff and reflect. On any of them, show interest in running with you and and picking up the waist and stuff like that.

Yeah, sometimes. I mean, not necessarily my daughter's if that's OK, but my son, he'll be out. He he says, you know, like when are we going to do a race? Or he'll come out with his buddies, like while I'm working and I have a just a little homemade gym here and he'll be doing pull ups and throwing the dumb, the kettle bells around, stuff like that. So it's, yeah, it's cool.

I try not to push anything on on to them, but I want them to definitely be a part of my experience and they don't have to do it, but be a part of it and I'll be a part of theirs. No, 100% man, you got to like definitely, you know, be mindful of their interest and cater to those. But man, I'm, I'm certainly hopeful that my sons will take an interest in lifting and be my workout partners at some point in the future. So we'll see.

I don't know, they may totally despite me and be like, all right, we're going to need all the sugar in the world never picking up a dumb, you know, that'd be a mileage, but it'd be good, man. It'd be good. Well, sweet John, what? What do you get in the pipeline, man? You get anything you're training

for specifically. So yeah, I've actually been outside a couple times this last week and I think I have it's called the Ray Miller 50 Miller. That one's kind of it's I'm I'm deciding whether or not I want to commit to it and sign up for it. But that's a 50 Miller at the end of the the end of this year. But I've kind of been in this mode where like I feel like I've given my time to enough time to put on muscle. And I kind of want to now that

the weather's getting nice here. It's always nice and so Cal. But like it's summertime and I want to get out and start running and start training and hopefully just, yeah, maybe maintain and just keep keep the muscle that I have put on and see if I can get back to that endurance point. I've always had it as just like looming goal, not going to make

it like my, my everything. But I've always said the time that I can get back and do 100 Miller again is that's when I'll say I'm healed or at least like I'm back, so. Now you got it from here man, I got no doubt about it. Totally random, but like what? What shoes do you run in? I wear ultra ultra little piece. Yeah, I've heard you talk about them quite a bit and I totally recommend them. I it hurt to get to get used to them. It really, it killed me. Like I didn't realize like my

calf muscles and whatnot. But yeah, like I love them. I also have wider feet too so I've always kind of gravitated towards ultra but the wider toe box and but not. Yeah, I need to get me another pair. I kind of out. I put too many miles on the last pair and I hadn't been running lately, but I need to actually

get back into that. I need to start running technical trails in preparation for elk season later this year because I feel like that they go hand in hand, but I've been on a strict, you know, lifting regiment here lately so I need to heed my own advice here and just start running, throwing

that into the mix as well. So might have to give me a pair of ultras and lace them up and get to work man. There you go. When does elk season start for you? Depends where I go normally, like September, October is where I'll be hunting, so I'm looking forward to that. But again, we got another baby coming in June too, so that kind of dictates how much hunting I'll do this year, depending on how smoothly that birth process goes and how well Crystal's doing with it all.

So that'll be in the cards. But I don't want to be not hunting because I'm out of shape, so that won't be the limiting factor for sure. Yeah, OK, man, that that's really cool. Good for you. And yeah, I appreciate everything you do, man. I really do. And yeah, you've been a huge inspiration to me and yeah, big, big part of this recovery process, believe it or not. But yeah, I've, I've followed you. I tune into social media when I can and I'll listen to your your podcast too.

So. No, I appreciate. That. When you sent me that e-mail, I'm like, shoot, I just need to get you on the show and we'll just talk shop and get to know you because you got a cool story and you're doing cool things, man. So appreciate you reaching out and if there's everything I can do for you man, just don't hesitate to reach out and let me know. Definitely, man. Well, I'm I've had it in the back of my mind to get out to one of your retreats one of these times and see what it goes

down with all the boys. Yeah, no, we'll do it. We'll either you can expect a lot of good food, a lot of good camaraderie. So yeah, man, we'll make that happen. I don't know when the next one

will be, but I'll definitely be posting about it when it when it gets slated for sure. OK, awesome. Where? Do people go to find out more about you man You got a social profile that you link out to? I don't man, I I actually, I stay pretty low key on the social media. I'll I'll go on Twitter, but I don't have followers or anything like that. It's been something I've kind of for me myself, I've taken out of

my life. I felt like it was a big distraction for me and just took time away from the things that I wanted to do is back to those on off modes. I was too on with the social media. So I kind of. Respect that man.

Totally respect that. Especially when you have kids, it's like like I'll use the, the socials for the business, but if I'm not doing something with the business and I'm just scrolling, I'm like, man, how can I possibly justify doing this when I could be spending time with my family, you know? Totally. So 100% man, will definitely keep me posted, keep me in the loop. Shoot me an e-mail when you do your run. I just want to keep, keep up with you, man.

So keep doing what you're doing, brother. Right on. Appreciate you man God bless. You, man. See you, John.