Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto, Savage.com. And today I've got special guest sod who is the co-founder of hone Health which is all about hormonal health for guys and we talked about it's funny. We talk all about hormonal Health, blood markers, how they go about these testing how they can go about treatment. But then we totally took a tangent and Dove deep into mindset stoicism, gratitude, mentality business, entrepreneurial, you know, endeavors. You know, having a good company
culture. So we just we talked about it. All I thoroughly thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. I learned a ton and have a lot of desire to keep in touch with this guy because I feel like he and I are quite aligned when it comes to our views towards business and life. So I have no doubt that you enjoy this conversation. So that further Ado, sit back, relax and enjoy the podcast with sod And we are live. Sod, how are you brother good? I'm good man, I appreciate you having me on hey man I
appreciate you taking the time. So I have had several women experts on the podcast that dive deep into, you know, the different menopausal phases, the different progesterone, Esther own estrogen, everything related to female A hormonal health. I haven't, honestly had too many guys, on the podcast, which is funny because I'm a guy talking about proper male hormonal health. And I'm not sure how we even connected, but I think Chase, I think sent me Chase tuning.
I think got me in touch with you, but I read your bio read a little bit about your business home health. And it's all about male testosterone and just male Vitality. So I kind of love to pull the curtain back on that and dive deeper into the science and research around that. But before we do that, man, what even You interested in that, you know, trajectory that, that path
anyways. So, you know what I've been building technology companies now from of the past 15 years and I only build companies based upon problems. I've actually been through personally, because frankly with the amount of time and effort that goes into this thing, you don't care about it about the problem. And if you're not obsessed about solving the problem, you just don't have the energy to go through all the ups and downs.
So, maybe some background on myself and I'll tell you the problem that I had, that inspired me, but I probably been like you, I've been, I've been, I've been in Fleet since I was as young as I could remember, it really was the way that helped me as an immigrant right fit into the fit into the country. On top of it to I've been working out right I don't know six days a week for the past 25 years of my life I eat perfectly. I meditate twice a day.
I track my sleep with three different devices. I have blood drawn every month. I've got it really a hyperbaric oxygen chamber. My office right next to me and infrared sauna behind me. And so when I say like I'm obsessed, like I'm all in on it. I absolutely love. Everything about optimization learning how to push my body. And so when I turned 35, which was five years ago, a bunch of
things started happening. First thing that started to happen was, I started to lose my energy over the course of about a year, and I've started waking up a little bit later that turned into wake sleeping, until noon, some days that turned into taking a nap every now and then in the, in the afternoon, which is completely the opposite of my personality. The sudden that my mental focus, my Acuity started to decrease
pretty dramatically. I was having trouble recalling, simple Concepts, I would having trouble doing simple math, equations in my head and then the weight gain started, and no matter what I did, and no matter how much I changed my diet, I started to get those dreaded. Love handles around my stomach, and then, last but not least, it was actually probably the straw that broke the camel's back. If I'm being honest, my libido is gone. I mean, so much.
So that forget about the desire not being There. But the plumbing just wouldn't even more. And that right makes for some really scary conversations between between me and my girlfriend at the time. And, you know, I probably laugh it off now, especially considering I've decided to dedicate my whole life to this, but I mean men, it's scary. It's so scary when that happens, you know, here I was 35. Finally, had some coin in my pocket should have been on top of the world.
And here I am pushing myself as a man. All of a sudden, don't know if I'll be able to pray thrive. My family take care of my aging parents. And so I went to my primary care physician and I said, look, something is dramatically wrong. And right, this is like a pretty high-end concierge Doc and he should have, he did what any doc would have done. He said, let me go, take your blood brought me back and you know my testosterone level was 187 NG or does DL poof. You do anything?
It means that you're incredibly low and because it was in range for the lab that he used, he actually looked at All my lab values and said side, you're like a shining example of house and he says, you know what Middle Eastern men start to age a little bit early, so this could just be the beginning of old age and frankly, like you just have to deal with it and you seem like the kind that has a lot of millennial expensive existential angst. So you should learn how to get
get a hold of that too. Wow, that's pretty pretty harsh. It's so harsh and I said I said that's bullshit man. Absolutely not. That's not what top Quality Healthcare in this country gets you And that's what started this kind of Journey I went on and took six months, right? I went to I went to multiple Physicians. They sent me two labs, they brought me back to their offices because that was part of protocol told me nothing was
wrong. And I finally met a group of hormone optimization and regenerative Physicians, they took a look at that same blood work. And they literally said, the problem is really easy. You've got the testosterone levels of an 80 year old man, and, and the thing that gave me So much comfort and solace. In this entire thing was they said a large majority of our customers are younger guys. Like you said that's, that's bizarre. Why would that even be
happening? And they said, you know, it's odd, Our Generation. Keep in mind, they're 30 years old and I am, we had testosterone levels that are 25% higher. We had 50% more sperm, and I said this is sounds conspiratorial like, wow, that's crazy. Why would that even be happening? Why don't people even talk about it? And, you know, that's, they didn't have a really great answer other than the fact that a lot of their customers or their patients were younger.
But I served to do a lot of a lot of research and the scientific Community while very nascent is now beginning to really gravitate Words, the fact that they're all these environmental contaminants, but they're these Plastics fall AIDS, pcbs in our food and our drinking water. And for men, they get into our body and they resemble these estrogenic compounds. And they tell the hormone regulating centers in our brain to essentially shut down natural
or endogenous production. And when I heard that, I was like, oh my God, this is like the handmaid's tale. And if you ever see that seen that show and I said, this is really scary because These also cause what they call epigenetic
changes. So not true changes to your DNA but changes that are expressed which can be passed on to your Offspring. And so basically, if you were to follow this thing down and it sounds conspiratorial again, your children could actually theoretically have lower testosterone levels and you do which right has all kinds of problems associated with it. And so that's really what inspired me once I figured once I went to once, I got some help,
For myself. I mean, man, it fundamentally changing my life in the most real ways and that was the thing that made me say, Okay I want I want to spend the rest of my life building this company to help men have confidence as they age. Not loving man. I feel like I feel like people don't even realize how their environmental factors are affecting their health from like a whole model standpoint. Are you familiar with dr.
Anthony J. Like if you ever heard of him, Say that again, his name is dr. Anthony J. Know he's a really good friend of mine. I go hunting with him every year. He like this is his area of expertise like he's done. He's a geneticist or used to be a geneticist so he knows all about, you know, the epigenetic effect, he wrote the book estro Generations. Talking about how Plastics and phalates and all these environmental factors have a pretty profound impact on one's hormonal Health.
But I had no clue about any of this until I started diving into his Eric had him on my podcast and then it was just like crazy, man. Because like, I mean things that you don't even think about, like the topical stuff you put on your skin to take a shower, like, all these things that were now just inundated with that, we weren't 50 years ago. That mean that's probably the main culprit.
I'm gonna assume, it's probably one of the leading culprits as to why Baseline testosterone levels, have just gone through the freakin floor, that's what they say. Nothing up granted, right. There's also if we're being completely objective, we are as a nation far more obese. We tend to use our phones, like, from the moment we wake up to the moment, we go to bed and like the blue light, definitely disturbs our REM and our deep sleep. And so that has a bearing on your testosterone levels.
But I think the one fact that really points towards environmental contaminants is when you look at the population or the for the testosterone levels of populations in large Urban or metropolitan areas, they actually tend to be far lower than people in rural areas. And if you say men and it's in large part, because there are there is a much higher incidence of these environmental,
contaminants, mmm. So, what knowing that before, before we dive into your company and what you've done, you know, exoticness lie to help, what are some things that you've done just with from an environmental standpoint that, you know, now that you know what? You know what have you changed environmentally? That was hopefully getting the needle moving in the right direction and that regard Well, unfortunately, I decided to stay living in a large city. How many Yorker? And I love it.
The energy. I probably get from the city is kind of unrivaled, but they're simple. Things we started doing right. We start, I started using natural deodorant I stopped using plastic when I was eating, meaning a like I used. I do a ton of meal prep and so I started using glass containers. I stopped drinking out of plastic water bottles, which is really hard to do at the beginning, but, Once you get your own kind of like glass water bottle, put the right exterior on it.
And you then we drink a ton of filtered water on top of it to like, I'd like to say that I changed all my shampoos and all my my my face creams. We haven't gotten there yet per se because it's hard to find. I would say the quality is of some of the organic products that are really looking for but those are like the main Environmental Ones that you can do for me. It was I was doing a lot of the things, right? I was sleeping, right. I was checking my my nutrient levels.
I was eating I was eating right? I didn't have a diet that was too high in refined carbohydrates and didn't drink soda. I didn't drink alcohol, didn't smoke. And so it really came down to my hormonal system was off balance in what was probably the most likely some of these in Our mental contaminants that had just accumulate on my body for years, if I'm being honest.
Yeah, no, totally. So talk to me about home health, what that is and and what that looks like for you both as the owner and also I guess as a patient of your, of your own Clinic. Yep. So I would say, right that the biggest problem is that I had when I went through my journey was actually, hold on. Does it make sense for me to give us? Give your give your listeners a quick science lesson. On how testosterone works in your body, totally man, lay it on us. Okay, cool.
Because I thought that'll actually naturally lead into what we do and why is so differentiated. So imagine you've got this little gland in your head. It's called your pituitary gland, your pituitary gland. If you kind of think about where the base of your skull is and the middle, that's kind of sits in between there in your eyes.
And so that Glenn is kind of like the thermostat for your entire body and it actually sits underneath what's called your Hypothalamus and so your pituitary gland, it secretes a hormone called LH or luteinizing hormone that luteinizing hormone runs through your body and it tells these cells in your testes, call your latex cells, it tells them. Hey, I want you to produce more testosterone and so it activates them testosterone is produced in your body.
Some of that testosterone gets bound up by sex crime, sex hormone-binding globulin which is known as shbg or albumin. And It's bounded can't really do a lot of useful stuff. And so then there is some percentage of testosterone that's what they call free testosterone or Unbound, testosterone that can then do useful work in the cells.
Now some of that free testosterone, it turns into DHT, DHT is actually far more anabolic but also is the the hormone that is very much directly responsible for increased hair loss for in men. The other thing, it turns into is it turns into it? Turned into estrogen and estrogen as, you know, is something normally most people equate to a female hormone, but really important for men because it confers bone strength on us, it decreases the chances of
dementia as we get older. And then what ends up happening is your hypothalamus, which sits on top of your pituitary, it senses, how much estrogen or testosterone is in your body, and it tells that it tells it, it, I would say, almost modulates, the amount of LH that's being secreted. Treated, which tells your body to produce more testosterone.
So imagine this right? You all of a sudden have a lot of estrogen in your body, well, your hypothalamus knows that and then it'll tell your pituitary gland. Hey, I need you to slow down the secretion of LH because we know testosterone turns into estrogen and it's probably a little bit higher than it needs to be. And so, when you have all these environmental, contaminants that resemble these estrogenic compounds, your brain is basically saying too much
testosterone or body. Let's go ahead and shut down natural. Option. Hmm, got you and so, that's imagine. That's kind of like a backdrop and weíll talk about what the company does and how we help fix that. So, the first thing that happens, you go online. You pay just $45 for an at-home testing kit, kit, or at the test goes directly to your house, you prick, your finger. You give us several drops of blood, we then send it into one of. Our labs are Labs analyzed at
48, different hormones. We then put you on a 30-minute video. Video call with a licensed physician. Now the physician spends, probably the first 10 minutes asking you about yourself. Why you're here. What are you trying to achieve? It's kind of like the beginning of a deep relationship building exercise the next 10 minutes. He spends he or she spends talking about will these are what your hormone levels. We really do. A good job, educating the
patient. Then the next 10 minutes is, well, here are the positives or the benefits or here are the side. Ex of any potential treatment plan. And this is really important, a lot of other clinics out there will treat a man for any at any testosterone level. We actually only treat hypo, gonna do men or men with clinically low testosterone, we turn away a ton of business, because guys, come in just say I want higher testosterone levels and we say there has to be a
medical need. And then we basically, if the patient says, yes, I want to get on testosterone or I want to get on Clomid, which is a fertility. He drugged, we also have other longevity drugs, drugs for disease prevention. Then we basically ship, patient out medications from our Pharmacy and then every 90 days, they either get another at home.
Blood tests, they can go to LabCorp, they can get a phlebotomist, come to their house, so we can get another reading of their biomarkers, and then they do another consult with a physician because what ends up happening is, once you start treatment for one particular hormone, there is a downstream. Act on other hormones, because we talked about how testosterone curves into estrogen or to DHT.
And basically, we have to carefully measure those every 90 days and do what we kind of call a dialing in your medications. You either change the medications, titrate them up, maybe titrate them down, maybe pull one off of it and you kind of have to go through this dance for about six months to a year to figure out what your sweet spot really is. And so that's that's really the way the business operates catch it, catch it. And when these, Own drugs are
shipped to the patient. How are they administering? Those is that just through needle injection. It's a great question. I'll actually ask you what your thoughts are. So we have, we have three formulations. We have these under the tongue trophies. They're like these little Starburst that go under your tongue bait. They taste wonderful. We've got this cream that you can put on your arms or your testes.
We've got these subcutaneous injections, which are like these little insulin pens and you basically administer yourself an injection in your stomach with what proportions of each do you think we sell? Man, I would imagine most people are going for the least invasive. So he the topical or the under the tongue gummy, that's what we thought. 98% of the men will opt for subcutaneous injections really understand. Why is that you think? I think there's a there's a bunch of reasons one.
I think that there is this a lot of guys that go on forums and forums tend to talk about how you get the most stable delivery of testosterone through through either an IM or subcutaneous delivery. I think there's this weird thing. Also beware, when you talk to guys about taking testosterone there almost want to do, what they think is going to be the most invasive. Delivery method because they also believe it's going to be
the most efficacious, mmm, okay. Also the fewest side effects with the subcutaneous injection as well, too. Yeah, that makes sense. What are some side effects that you all are typically saying so generally, right? So this is important. Imagine I take a shot on Monday. My the the concentration of testosterone, on my blood is probably going to be its highest Tuesday afternoon into Wednesday, then my Body starts to metabolize it, and that concentration starts to decrease over time.
Now, when you inject, it goes to the, it gets the highest concentration within about a day and a half, and that's when you experience the most side effects. And so that, the side effects, you can see experience, our water retention acne. Hair loss at the doses were prescribed, you don't really see changes in like in like temper at all. Generally in order to get there, you got to do 20 times more than we're prescribing. Our positions, you work with are prescribing.
And then the other one is something called an elevated hematocrit level. So in about fifteen percent of all the cases, I happen to be one of those guys. The total number of red blood cells. You had actually increases. So you have to go get what they call phlebotomist which is just a really fancy word for donating a little bit of blood. Every problem, six months, and those are like really the side effects that we see.
Now, the reason I was telling you about the day at which your blood concentration Peaks is because what you actually find is that if you Rather than to an injection every once a week but you do it maybe twice a week or three times a week in a smaller dose. The the peak that you get to is not as high and a large number of the side effects actually fall away. Yeah, I've heard that on numerous occasions. Like if you're going to be
dosing this it's much better. Very little more of a hassle but much much better from a side effect standpoint symptoms, Sam standpoint. If you're able to just you know, spread that over a longer period of time. But with a much smaller dosage to kind of just keep things more even Keel so to speak. 100% absolutely.
Yeah, and I'll tell you, you feel way different because what ends up happening is if I inject on Monday and I'm feeling great on Tuesday or Wednesday by the time Sunday comes around next week. I've fallen into this trough because my concentration level is so low that, I'm pretty cranky and probably not moving as fast. I'm not sleeping as well versus when you space it out to three times a week. You don't really experience that that large of a drop and use experience far more of a Little
concentration. Yeah. What do you say to the people that are a little bit hesitant to like hesitant about the accuracy of these at home? Blood tests. Like I've companies have sent me like at home blood, testing kits, for testing, cholesterol, and hormones, and things of that nature. And I mean, the ones that I've done is pretty small sample size like where as you go into the doctor, like to a Quest Diagnostics, enter you give a pretty hefty dose of blood.
Like, is there any any accuracy lost in transit with such a small dose of Of blood that's not being kept under certain temperature control or anything like that. So that's a great question. All right. So basically the process we use what they call dried blood spots, right? So it's basically a fancy filthy piece of filter paper. You drop a couple drops of blood and what the blood actually does is it travels up the filter paper and then, it begins to separate into serum.
And so there's this kind of like Trends Lucien yellow color that forms where the blood stops to conceptor eight. That's where they actually run the analysis. Now, the technology has been around for 30 years is very well understood. And all the labs that we use or what they call clear cap certified which basically means every single week, well, first even get started, they've got to go in get certified by governing agency.
And then every week they've got to run a sample to make sure that the sample that they are running for you is equivalent to what they called venipuncture, which is just a fancy way of saying actual blood that would go to something like like a questor LabCorp. And so the, the punchline there is, you don't need that much blood because they're using different instruments to conduct the analysis.
And keep in mind, this is very different than like a fair knows where it's like, hey, with a single drop of blood. We're looking for going to be able to measure 200 different biomarkers. This is more like four drops of blood. We can measure a biomarkers and that's going. You said that's so it's not like it's being deposited into A like a vile that just has these few drops of blood in its being deposited into a vial that has this paper Wick. So to speak, and that's what
you're testing. And maybe a vial with the paper Wick is the, I may have miscommunicated. Imagine it's just like a piece of filter paper, right? It's and I say I'm simplifying it. It's like a fancy piece of filter, paper on a piece of cardboard and so you, you deposit your blood on that. Now what's interesting though? Is going back. My comment about we are only treat hypogonadism men. We are arguably the most conservative clinic in the country, where we really put safety Above All Else.
And generally, if a guy wants to go on testosterone, will make them do a confirmatory testosterone reading. Before we're the Physicians, we work with are willing to prescribe to them. And that particular marker is hematocrit. Matte acrylic doesn't work on one of these cards. So ends up being like a little microtainer, you have to use Which to your point is like a little vial of blood, and you basically ship that on ice and it gets there within 24 hours. Gotcha, gotcha.
So these companies that are doing something similar in the guards that I testing blood markers, if they're just simply doing like a vile and you put in a few drops in there and then you're sending it, you know, several States over and it's not temperature-controlled. There's probably going to be some inaccuracies and those results, right?
This is going to sound soft that I say this could be some some some biomarkers may not need them to be refrigerated others, definitely do. They could also use an anticoagulant in there that maybe doesn't require that as much. So I think it's it really is case dependent based upon which one you're looking at. Gotcha. Gotcha. When it comes to the like cut off points for what a viable candidate would be versus. What would, what about can't would not be? I guess that's Universal.
Is that kind of Totally dependent upon the individual, or they're like certain markers of which like, hey, your toe testosterone is beneath this level, your free test is here. Your sex hormone-binding globulin is here. You're a prime candidate. Like, what are those markers? Man, that's such a great question. And it's, it's actually a very political answer. I'm going to give you that, is it, maybe let me explain this to you, right? So right there are two schools
of thoughts. When it comes to To treating testosterone one is kind of like an optimization based school of thought, which is, I don't care what your testosterone level is right now. I'm just going to get it higher and the other one which is the one we come through. Which is you have to be clinically low in testosterone and be experiencing symptoms of low testosterone before we can
treat you. And so the school of thought that we come from is really kind of an outgrowth of the American Urological association's guidelines around testosterone treatment and so they Basically kind of have this range and that range is between 900 and 300 nanograms per deciliter. So it means, if you're anywhere within that range, you are
technically okay. Now the thing that's difficult about that, it's based upon a population study and there some percentage of people that fall into the middle of the distribution and some chunk of people that fall on the outside which means that there's some part of the population that probably has a healthy testosterone level of There's some people in the population that probably have a healthy testosterone level of like 180, right?
And so, and there's also what it doesn't differentiate on. Is it assumes that the testosterone level of a 30 year old man is the same as it's a softer, own level for a 70 year old man. And so would you really have to do is dive in a little bit further to look at Age-related testosterone levels. So generally for a 30 year old man based on population data. It's like a 704 a 60 or year old
man. It's like 400 450 and I guess the way we say it is generally your testosterone level has to be below 300 nanograms per deciliter which is generally where the AUA calls its guidelines.
Now, the reason there's a little bit of a gray area is because Is let's assume you were meeting with a 30 year old guy that had a testosterone level of 350. Plus, you have all the symptoms and so there's a validated questionnaire, called a cue Adam that we in most other clinics are up across the country will use and the really good Physicians. They won't just treat a number. They will treat a combination of
the number and the symptoms. And this is really where the art comes in where the experience comes in. And they can tell where someone is hypo ganado versus someone, is just trying to get themselves. A mad. Education and they will look at the combination of the two of those things and things like when you run out of energy during the day, they're things. Like how often you have a full-blown direction.
It'll talk about the satisfaction in your life and the combination of those two things, really give the physician enough insight into where they should where they should, how they should pull that lever of kind of like the three hundred Nano grams per deciliter, cut off versus the symptoms. Gotcha, gotcha. Because I feel like there's so many people, like and so much of it with with hormones is, is acute versus chronic a lot of.
It is obviously chronic but I feel like there's some like, for instance, I went through, I didn't one of these hormonal panels, but it was I was stupid when I did it. I did it right after I had had a baby hadn't slept for a week and a half. I had a whole bunch of chaos
going on with the business. So like I literally hadn't slept but, you know, one hour for the past, you know, several Light switch is going to tank your testosterone and a very acute fashion but not so much from a chronic standpoint. So it'd be interesting to see. Like if people are registering these low markers over a significant enough period of time to Warrant that being their actual Baseline testosterone level. Hmm, it's a great, it's a great
question, right? And it's to your point, they can be acute and episodic meaning, like, it could be for some period of your life. While you're, maybe your child is less than six months old, or Or it could be a cute and really the focus of like a single day in your life because you went out and drank and partied. So hard for two days that that day, you're feeling like absolute trash.
And, and I think that kind of the way to that, we look at it is we try removing that out of the equation in that, if you want. There's what the first test, which is measure testosterone level. Then, there is some period of time later. Generally, you send in your kit, you talk to your After you do another testosterone kit, it's probably two to three weeks apart and if you get two independent readings that are in that kind of like hypogonadism area then you actually get
prescribed medication. Now does it take advantage of the fact that maybe it's like a six-month long period of your life? Probably not but then once again you're going to be having that conversation with your physician and your Physicians going to help decide. Whether this is something that's just it's going to come and go or if it's something that is a little bit more chronic in nature. Gotcha and you said you're testing these patients every 90 days.
So like if for whatever reason they're there level started elevating you know pretty good north of 1000 then you can start scaling that back as necessary. Absolutely. I feel like a lot of these clinics man. They just it's like the wild west that there was some of this stuff. Like their people are going in with, you know, pretty healthy testosterone ranges, but they're
there. Will the top these docks and prescribing testosterone basically so they can kind of be you know bodybuilders on one level but not really do things the right way. So it's good to hear that you're on the more conservative in and like they do you do all this follow-up and you're actually looking into the, you know details? Yeah.
You know what? It's kind of like And you're right there, we always look at clinics that we may potentially acquire especially brick-and-mortar ones as we're starting to get really interested in that world. And when you look at the book of their patients, 80% of them are in that optimization based category, right?
And right, as a venture back technology business, some would say you should take every single person that comes in that door because that's how you build a bigger company and grow as fast as possible. And we said, look, there's some there's some real safety. Is that you got to take advantage of and do what's best for the patient and while you may lose out on a bunch of Revenue, at the end of the day, you're doing, what's best for the patient?
Now, the other thing that's really interesting, right? We started in testosterone because that was the immediate problem that I went through. But now, we are starting to think about longevity. We're starting to think about
disease, prevention. We're starting to think about energy management and what I mean by that is most people think that when a guy comes in to us and they say, I need testosterone, they I want bigger muscles and they want to have better sex, which by the way, are two things that do improve generally when you take testosterone, but what they generally say to us is, I can't get on the ground and play with
my kids anymore. They say, I can't have a part, have a conversation with my partner, or my my wife and and really kind of be present in the moment because I don't have the patience or I maybe I blow up or maybe they say, I can't go to work and earn more money because I don't have the ability to focus and I can't take care of the people.
I Of. And so they make the statement and it sounds like it's very just scratching the surface, but it's really deep and they say I just want to feel like myself again. I want the energy to feel like I did when I was in my late 20s or early 30s because that's when I was the most productive. And so, we've begun to understand is that very often, that might not be a testosterone problem, that might be a mitochondrial problem. That could be your body is has a tremendous amount of
inflammation. Nation. It could be because you're not eating, right? It could be because you're not sleeping, right? And so, we begun, kind of introducing, a lot of coaching lifestyle coaching around her around our protocols, but also to introducing more products. So, we just introduced NAD or are you familiar with NAD? You have never use it but it's a pretty popular like the, you know, nootropic category. Yeah. So, so interestingly, right?
As you get older, the, the mitochondria are like the end. The powerhouses of your cell, they start to kind of deteriorate and you can get NAD at a lot of different kind of like over the over-the-counter stores. But we sell, an injectable form that has to be prescribed and people pay upwards of a thousand dollars for an IV for this stuff and we sell it for like $150, right? And that's really good to kind of use on a daily basis.
We started selling glutathione which is kind of like the mother of all antioxidants also injectable that needs to be prescribed we started selling injectable B12 as well too. And We just started selling metformin, which is a type 2 diabetes medication, but the research has begun showing.
It is an incredible longevity drug because it activates multiple Pathways. And so now we are kind of shifting from what is just solely a testosterone clinic, or was into something that is far more longevity, based, I like that, man. I feel like there's from a longevity standpoint. There's so much that people can do, you know, internally and externally. Only with supplements to take Foods.
They consume the environmental factors and I feel like, that's almost like, I feel like that's where people's mind needs to be. Go needs to go. I mean, I'm all about optimizing performance, you know, competing, you know, being a bodybuilder. But I feel like that's why I stay in a natural bodybuilding category because you see so many is bottom. And just these past two years, man, I don't know if you follow bodybuilding and all.
But so many of them have died these past two years, there's a lot of, you know, guesstimation as to what the primary driver is there. But I feel like people need to have this focus on. Jeopardy? Because of the end of the day, when you're like, 60 years old, you're not competing on stage anymore, like you got to be able to still function at a high level and enjoy your day today. Wait. So let's let's even talk about this, right? Do you want me asking how old
are you? I'm 34 30. Okay. So I just turned 40, let's imagine right that you, and I will live until we're 120 and I almost think it's a foregone conclusion. I think about the fact that great my father, who's a A kidney patient and dialysis should have probably died, 20 years ago and has been kept Alive by the medical advances and by the time we're even at that stage they'll be far. They will far superseded what's around right now.
And so right it fundamentally changes the Arc of your definition of what life is and so you when you're 60 you got to go run around in the world you and I will live in when we're 60 that'll actually be middle-aged. Yeah. Great minute we age. Like I'm 40 and I would argue that. I feel like I'm in my early 20s and I probably run just like that in terms of like my thirst for life and what I can accomplish in a day and if you think about you're 30, you're gonna have even have 80 good
years of life. Ahead of you forget about the 10 at the end where it's crappy. So when you're 60 I mean you're just getting into like your third life. I don't think a man, I was talking to people this weekend about. They just retired, they're six years old, they just retired. I was talking them and I'm like, I just like, I think Of 60 as you know not even not even
crusting middle-aged. So like I have no desire to retire because I'm My Own Boss. I do my own thing, I love what I do but like I can't imagine having 40 50 60 years after you quit your day job, so to speak and you have nothing really driving you because you don't have you don't have this this thing because you just assume that you're over the hill and you're on the the regressing side of things which just is totally demoralizing than my opinion.
It is and it There's such a mindset shift, right? I'll tell you. So, I was, I was turning 35 and I was kind of, like, I'm turning 35, and I don't know why mentally, but, in my head, I was like, you know, and in a couple years I'll be 40 and then I'll be 50 and once you're 50 or as good as like, hanging it up and you're kind of like old and one of my friends who's 50 calls me up and he's like, hey look, I'm going to Vegas for my 50th birthday.
Why don't you come with? And so I go with him and it's like 2:00 in the morning and I'm like, hey Craig, I'm going to go to sleep, he's like What he's like, why is it? Well, I got to get up in the morning. I want to make sure you know I'm not too tired. He's like sod. I'm 50 years old. And I am going to literally go all night long because I love life that much and he was like, well, why are you acting like such like why are you acting so down?
I was like, well, you know, I just turned 35, give it just hope Kim the whole species. Like, dude, you have no idea what life is about. He goes, I'm just turning 50 and luckily he you know, he's built a couple of successful
businesses. So You can focus on different parts of his life and he's like, I'm going to live until I'm 100 and he goes, I'm just getting started in life and it's interesting because in that moment, I mentally understood that at 35, if I think I'm going to live until I'm in my hundreds, that all of a sudden, it's like being 18 years old with the experience in the bank account of a 35 year old.
And I was just given a gift and it's almost like you have that moment in your life where you say, holy crap, he's completely right? Like I'm Just getting started. And I think once I made that shift in my mind, it transformed the way, I live my life and I think there are a lot of young people in general, that are beginning to think that way and they're not enough, right? But we're at the beginning of
this. This real transformation or shift in the way we live our lives and it takes more people like you and me talking about it. So people can kind of like get their arms around the concept that hey, the world is changing and I would actually argue I ended up doing this research before I started the company and I interviewed 150 guys that were anywhere from 30 to 70 years
old. And the most interesting thing that I found was the guys that felt like they were young in their mind and they didn't look at age as a limiting factor, looked 15 years younger and like and literally, like I would meet a 50 year old guy that felt like he was seven years old because he gained a bunch of weight. He No, he had a really hard time at home with his wife, his kids didn't like them. And he looked 20 years older than he was versus.
I'd meet a 70 year old. That was like, man, my life is so great. I'm so excited about everything. It has to offer. I'm grateful and he was optimistic about the future of his life. He'd look, 20 years younger and so, so much of this is really rooted in the mindset that we bring to life every single day.
And I think that in large, part of what we think about ourselves as is, we're kind of rolling out this blueprint for the next Generation to start thinking about life differently, 1000% agreement, and I feel like, I don't know how to put this eloquently, like I don't know. I'm sure there is science behind. I don't know what the science is but I'm a big believer in that. You think things into existence
and it sounds really woo. But like that's just been my experience with life like I never. I've been sick twice in my entire life and I never get sick because I identify someone who never freaking get sick. You know, I'm passionate about life. I'm excited about my future. There's literally Not a single moment in my time where I think that the best is behind me.
So many people, man, like it's exhausting listening to people who are constantly just reliving their Glory Days of when they were playing football in high school, yet there 73 years old. Like, I don't understand that mentality. Like every single year that passes for me, is more exciting than the last, with that type of mentality. How can I possibly think that I'm over the hill?
Like when you believe that your future is more exciting than your present, then your by definition likely, going to live longer. Because You have something to live for a hundred percent. There's a there's a book right? It's called Think and Grow Rich. Have you ever given area?
And so like the way that that book talks is is it's like and when you and you manifest your thoughts and they will collide with the particles of the world and your deepest wishes and desires will turn into reality and you're like, what the hell is this? There's a guy, his name is Doctor. Joe dispenza and he wrote a man. He's the one that did the Spartan Race. Yeah, and so his basic story is right. He had, he had a biking accident.
His doctor said you'd never walk again, he sat around and visualized his spine growing back and in some incredibly short period of time he's up and riding his bike again. And so he wrote this book, that talks about what I'll call the scientific or mechanical description, is how manifestation works and keep in And there are parts of this
book. That feel really woo if I'm going to be perfectly honest but and it's a difficult read because you've got to go back and think through the chapters is not like a fast rate per se, but it definitely walks you through how that entire process works. And you're right, like all of it does start though at the beginning of the day with you having a thought or a belief in your mind and following it through like a lot of people like they laugh at what Tony Robbins does and the Melody is
for a lot of people. It is complete bullshit, but for the few that undergo to his seminars and understand how to unlock that, the that level of manifestation in their life, it works it really important but you have to believe in. You got out of eat the dog food, you better drink the Kool-Aid and you've got to go all the way in, right? It's kind of like are you familiar with the science of gratitude exercises? I'm not hundred phrase that way.
No. So right when you wake up in the morning, by the way, do you do gratitude gratitude exercises or like journaling in the morning? I don't, I don't journal in the sense of like, you know, riding on a physical piece of paper, but I definitely do mindset where a gratitude work. You know, take time to be reflective and think about what I'm grateful for, for sure. There's a there's a really good
app. It's called 5-minute journal and so what it does, is you wake up in the morning, you write three things, you're grateful for you, right? What are three things you want to accomplish? In that day and you have one kind of what I'll call like mantra for that day and you attach a picture to it. And so one would say like that. Oh, that's a cute thing to get started, but the science of it is actually really interesting.
Because when you first wake up, and your mind is still in what we'll call like in a contemplative State and you start forcing yourself to think about what are things I'm grateful for and not think about it only, but to write it down to look at it, and then take a moment. To actually see what it feels like inside of you. And you do that every single day, for some prolonged period
of time. You're basically conditioning your mind, and your subconscious to start this process of thinking about the things in your life that are exciting and that make you feel happy. And then it'll be like a member. The first time it happened. I was at a random lunch and it was like 1:00 and normally because it's a little bit late. I'd be like, what the hell is going on?
And I was with someone that was probably complaining actually, remember exactly where I was, but instead of me being like, why the fuck are you complaining? I was like, man, I just feel so grateful to be here with this person and being able to hear about what's making them upset. And I was like, whoa, what happened, what happened? And then all of a sudden you start to find yourself in the most random places going God, life is so great, no matter how bad the surrounding situation is.
And so they I say that people that consistently practice gratitude and they're always acting from a place of abundance generally, end up being happy because they don't feel like they're afraid in this world. And when you're at a place of comfort, you can actually do far more, take on far, more risk in your life, from a much smarter place. And so, like, it actually, like is fascinating how it works.
And then, once you practice it all of a sudden, you're like, holy shit like This really isn't Woo. Which just sounds. Whoa, no, I totally agree, man. I feel like I've dug really deep into stoicism. I'm a big. I just love stoic, you know,
philosophers. I love thinking through a stoic lens and I feel like once you gain that level of self-awareness, where you can, you know, arms to look at yourself in the mirror and figure out what your what your strengths are, what your, what Your Grace attributes are what your greatest weaknesses are, and then view the world and all of your environmental factors the lens of Just reality as opposed to these manufactured things that you know pessimism
are overly optimistic creation, you know entails. Then you just allow yourself to think very clearly and then you're able to act very clearly and I feel like so many people have have lost touch with who they are what they're capable of and then with that they just have zero confidence and very little ability and that to me would be like that. That is the definition of hell right there.
R. But if you are able to look through the world through a very stoic glands and just simply act upon what your reality is in an emotionless State almost, but then in an effective State, like your ability to perform at a high level and just create progress in your life is going to be exponentially. Amplified You know, it's so hard for people to do to separate themselves from who they believe they are emotionally because they've built this armor around
themselves. That is based upon a narrative, right? I do it, you do it. And I think it takes a and to your point, like, I am a die-hard follower of stoicism, and frankly, like as an entrepreneur, like you have to adopt that mindset if you're going to be successful in this particular world because it Nothing but a series of problems and setbacks that anticipate they're coming. You get emotionless when they're
here. You can activate yourself and figure out how to get through them because you already knew it was going to be nothing but a set of problems and you move on to through your day with 12 problems on your shoulders that are just completely normal to you versus someone would crumble with two or three. And I think the exercise that really helped me get through, it was when I sold my first company. I ended up going to Thailand with my girlfriend for like a for like two or three weeks.
And what I did is every day I woke up and I said to myself, like, What do I do? Well and I wrote everything I did well and I really didn't care about that because I think I know what those things are. But the more importantly I said, what are the things? I think I do bad and then I basically went to everyone. I worked with and I said, you tell me about how I'm not good and they said, are you sure? I said, I want you to just hold no bars.
I want you to tell me how I can improve and then you go through a period where you look at it and you're like god, dammit like fuck you. No, no I'm not that way. And then you kind of like sit back objectively and real. Sighs those things. I'm not good at don't Define me. They are just a bunch of behaviors that I decided not to improve on. And if I want to improve on
them, I can improve. And that eventually turned into, like a hundred page manual on myself, literally, and I say to myself and basically, every month I go through and I say, which one of these habits do I care to improve some of them.
I never do because frankly like I'm just going to go find someone that's better and some of them I actually work on and I think through that process, it helps Helped me understand that I shouldn't be emotional with feedback but actually I do nothing but welcome it and there's you know, Ray dalio is. What has he written for me? With that name? He's author, right? Yeah, well he did write a book called principles but imagine he is one of the most successful
money managers of history. I mean history period And I can get into like the specifics of what he's done, but maybe like the The way to a kind of characterize it. As he has, he runs a firm called Bridgewater. It's the most powerful Financial firm in the in the world. And so what he actually did is he created a system of these principles, any one of them is radical Candor. And so, what that basically means is you are supposed to be incredibly transparent with the next person.
But do it from a place of being constructive and the manifestation of that is in his meetings, they have a system where let's say, it's him the CEO, right?
The most sick, one of the most successful CEOs ever in history period and then there is an entry-level associate that comes in and let's say there's three people in meeting each person grades each other and each person gets to grade each other irrespective of their position and if Ray came in and did a crappy job that day that person's allowed to say where you did a shitty job and raise supposed to go, you know what, you're right, let me think about that and try to improve on it.
And if you imagine, it's the most difficult thing to do for most people. But it's really hard for really smart people to do because we always want to believe their
light, right? And so, if you can, think about the cultural challenges of bringing in the single, most smart aggressive people in the fucking world, and basically saying, I want you to learn how to adopt this principle and I want you to be comfortable with it and not only be comfortable with it, but I want you to embrace it because it's going to
make you better, right? And that that's the the ultimate for the penultimate like manifestation of how this thing actually turns into into practice and I think that if we tried doing it at our company, sometimes you succeed but really at the end of the day, become so difficult because we all have these these armors we hold on us.
That if someone hits it a little bit too hard You're Gonna Want to Break and it all goes towards the comment you made around stoic philosophy which is you've got to learn how to be unemotional about it, right? So you oh, go ahead. I feel I feel like so many people because I love that kind of stuff. Like I love, like I'll ask people all the time. What do I do?
Good where do I, you know, go awry, not because I want them to tell me how great I am. Like, I would much rather prefer they tell me all the bad things are going to focus on them because I want to improve on that. But I don't really come in contact with me people that do that and maybe it's because that's a fault. Mm. Oh maybe I need to just surround myself with different people but I think that type of honest transparent, Aunt, feedback is how we grow.
And in fact, a lot of people aren't willing to get that honest, brutal feedback because they lack confidence in who they are. I mean, I can confidently say that I'm not the greatest at many different things, but I'm confident who I am, you know, as a being. So if I'm not good at certain things, I can take that negative feedback and then actually work to improve it as a pot, as opposed to just letting my identity crumble because I was built out of a house of cards so to speak. 100%.
And it's I'll tell you, it's really hard for people that aren't open to thinking Differently to to really hope to really grab onto. Because they tend to think that it is a salt on their personal identity.
Like I'll give you you know, to interesting examples my girlfriend and I when we first started dating, you know I'm an entrepreneur, she became an entrepreneur probably like two years in and I having these conversations with her like being really Frank and honest and if you've been in a relationship, it's the worst thing you can do. Figure. Like, let me tell you why, you're why you're wrong and I don't want you to be emotional. And God, that is like the biggest recipe for disaster.
And what I realized after having enough conversations is that she felt threatened that I was coming after her and pointing my finger and what we ended up doing is we ended up having a conversation about the purpose of the conversation and then we get on a whiteboard now, hmm. So every month or so we get on a whiteboard we talk about how we're feeling. What do we want to improve? What do we do?
What Could be doing better as partners and that was actually like a huge transformational shift and I realize that was the tool for her that that made it acceptable. And in like, another example is, I got an executive at my company and I did an interview with someone and, you know, one of the questions I ask is Are you? How bad do you want this?
And if someone says, they don't want this job so bad or they're, you know, they're going to give it them salt, their entire selves to it. I say it's not the right fit because frankly like with these kind of companies, if you're not all in because that's what the culture is, Everyone knows it's a bad decision for us to bad decision for you. And so this, this particular person said, you know what, I don't want the job because you made me feel uncomfortable.
I said, I that's wonderful. God bless you. Thank you so much for that. And this executive came to me. He said, you can't talk to any more of my people anymore and I said, are you crazy? I said let me tell you the way the world works, the way the world works is you come and tell
me what you think I did. That could have turned this person off and one of the very I can open conversation about it and then I'll tell you, if I want to change your not and he said, wait, you want, you're willing to have that conversation would be. I said, absolutely. He said, I've never had never had someone. I've worked with that. Wants to be told how to improve themselves. That's it. That's the only way you figure out how to get better.
Yeah, I really think it it starts and it's going to start from you to the next person. You know, you can't have you just say I'm going to surround myself only with people that are acceptable. That think that way. I mean that list a small and really it's taking the kind of like the gift that you have and trying to give it to other people that I think is going to be more effective.
Yeah, I mean, you have to lead, by example, like that's it's used so much that has become cliche at this point, but it's so true. I mean, I don't ask anything of any of my employees that I would not be willing to do as well. And that includes receiving constructive criticism and feedback. Because I feel like if you If you Foster a relationship in which that is okay, that is the
president. That is the standard, then communication and information can free flow at such a better more, you know, more efficient, right? If you don't have that and things fester, and then things, you know, manifest into this negativity. Like this, this, this hush-hush tone in the workplace that just is a Cancer and that is going to be what cripples any company. Oh, I could not agree more. I could not agree more.
You've gotta you gotta come at something, once you feel it, you gotta break the ice or break some glass. So to speak, they say that the success of someone can be measured by the number of uncomfortable conversations, they're willing to have because when you break that glass and have that uncomfortable conversation either falls apart, it's good because it means you're on to the next thing that's better for you. Or you can kind of say, let's Ed
over our differences. Let's have a very open and transparent conversation about how we can make this thing work and let's move on. Yeah, now this is totally maggots. Not topic based off the conversation we're having now, but when it comes to kind of example were given about having these hard conversations and bringing out people's honesty with you know, whether or not they were a good fit for the company culture.
What I've found to be a challenge is when it comes to hiring a really, really good people. The me is the business owner, I'm sure you can live with this as well. Like you can't really expect anybody to be as passionate as you are because it's not your
thing. But at the same time you want people to have this go you know get her mentality and just be freaking Killers. But oftentimes those people with that type of mentality are better suited and want to become, you know, owners of their own companies. So how do you find people like that that are wanting to be, you know, like the not the CEO, not the head but rather one of the Remember the team and not their own their own boss. So to speak. I actually tell you when I built
my first company. I spent a lot of time doing and what I mean by that is I executed really hard and I was probably the smartest person in the room which is a horrible thing because it means because I'm not that intelligent. It means I was probably in the wrong room and I know it sounds cliche but the biggest learning I took away from that is I need to work with people that are far smarter and more intelligent
than me.. That if I when I meet someone and I'm intimidated by their intelligence, And I think that we fit together and share a similar set of values. I will beg them to come work for us. Yeah. And, and so, would that generally means is right now, I'll even tell you like my co-founders. One of them took her last company from 0 to 50 million dollars in two years, right? She's arguably the best paid marketer. That I've ever met and the way that I got to know where was
she's? An Albanian immigrant that came to this country and her name is album or tear out when she was. 18. Didn't speak any English but somehow taught herself, English figured out how to bring her parents here and then got herself a full ride to NYU within a year. And after I met her and understood kind of who works with her tenacity level, it look like and we're huge both of us on family.
I was like our values align and I have to respect you for what you're good at and I want you to come work with me and help me. Help me build this company, right? And it's the same way I've another co-founder Stewart and other co-founder matte ones named Seth and Zach and we all share a very similar kind of passion and desire to want to be really good and want to build something that's incredibly
impactful in people's lives. And then what I do is The biggest learning one of the biggest learnings I had is I probably spend 30% of my time. Recruiting, what that means is, I speak to a lot of people and there are a lot of people that feel like they're great candidates and they say that they would work really hard and they care about the business. But they, there's this intangible component of who they are. That just doesn't line up with ourselves is like a mission-driven company.
And so we spent a lot of time understanding what their values are. We also put together Either a really dense case and the case has no right? Or wrong answer, it's actually very complicated. Probably takes 12 hours to do 13 hours to do. And when an executive completes it based upon how they present, based upon how detailed they get, we have a pretty good understanding whether they're willing to go all the way in.
But I guess like more importantly, the thing that my co-founders and I and a lot of the people in the business all have in common is we love playing in the dirt. What that means is, we are all executors by nature and no matter how big the company gets and argue, like, we're pretty big at this point in time. We always get worked on ourselves alongside with the rest of the employees to show them, were all in because it makes sure that we understand
the problems really well. And there's actually, you know, the moment you have executive that's like, hey I I'll just we'll go hire someone to do that. You're like, no, literally roll up your damn sleeves. Go figure out the problem and go fix it yourself. We know, they're the wrong fit immediately and granted right to
your first point. There are going to be very few people that are willing to push as hard as you and that's the reality of it. But there are people that are willing to push really hard because they know this could make their career. They know that they're doing this because they have a little bit of a chip on their shoulder.
And I think it's it's finding those people that are really hungry and have the same set of values and want legitimately get joy from doing the work that we generally look to hire. And when we find them, I mean, I'm telling you we go all Yeah, whatever Park to give them whatever they want to get paid because we know that one really true Mission driven person. That's intelligent that you can trust. And has Integrity is probably worth 56, kind of like mediocre
employees. Totally, totally agree with that. I feel like, I feel like there is a certain element of tenacity that comes with people. That have lived, a life that they do not want to continue. Like when you live a very Be comfortable life and you have from the get-go, you almost not exclusively.
But I found that when you live a really comfortable life from the right at the gates, your level of tenacity, towards escaping, where you're at, to get to. The next level is just diminished and I'd be curious to get your thoughts on that being an immigrant and talking of her. Who's also an immigrant, like, do you feel like, you know, going through this incredible adversity Yield some intangible sense of just hustle That You Don't See and people that seem to have it pretty easy, right
out the gate. I don't know if it's just an immigrant thing per say, and I'll say this, I've got five co-founders from my business, all of them work equally as hard. Two of us are immigrants. Two of us are from what I'll call or I'll call the three of us or from what I'll call low income families. And one of us is from what I'll call, like probably Ultra high-net-worth. Hmm, everyone works just as hard
with the chip on their shoulder. So I don't know, I think your statement is probably correct in that many immigrants because they've had to struggle. Probably, our feel like struggle is more normal and because they want to prove themselves in this new world or willing to go in harder as a Shin of the population is probably higher. Think it's probably a very true statement, but I wouldn't want to generalize it because I know people that work that not work is the wrong way.
They want it, just as bad, and they're willing to put themselves on the line that are there's actually one of one of the co-founders I have. He's an amazing guy.
You never know it is. Parents are like incredibly well healed and when he when he came in and wanted to start the company, he said, look, I'm going to be executive and I said, Hey look, I don't think your I said, I don't think you have it honestly, and he said, no, I'm going to prove it to you and I said, I'm telling you man, like probably one of my strongest qualities is like assessing talent and I think that this might be a little bit outside of your reach right now
and I was brutally honest with him and for since the moment I said that he has had a chip on his shoulder and that kid has crushed it and worked, and is one of the single most reliable people we have. And, I mean, I like I'm lucky to call my brother and so, I just don't think it's either or I think you can definitely be both, but I wouldn't say that. The Immigrant mentality. We definitely grew up on the Poor Side and my father, he was a, he was a particle physicist.
And so when we were younger, he was a student and eventually he became a full tenured position. And we were very fortunate to kind of like move to nicer neighborhoods every probably five years growing up and my blessing. And honestly, it was really a blessing and I just won the won. The lottery, is it had a mom that love the hell out of me? And I had a fight and it was really smart. Had a father. That was brilliant.
Actually. Yeah. And I think, I think a lot of it has to do with kind of with who you have around you and kind of what they pre-program your into your head at an early age as well. You know, I totally gave that man, like we've got a 8 week old kiddo now and I've, I'm really thinking a lot about parenting
strategies and how I want. Like the type of values that I want to instill in him because there's so many ways to do it and there's not any, you know, parenting guide book out there, you know, that you get handed it their birth. So you kind of have to just go through life and you take that and you do with it as you may, but it really like, have you
have kids? I don't, we're trying right now, but I can I can I guess empathize with what you're talking about because I've given it a lot of thought ourselves. Yeah. And it's weird because a lot of people use kids as a A scapegoat and it disgusts me honestly. But for me, I look at having him as an opportunity to just really, really be reflective and just gained a greater sense of clarity in my own life, you know, selfishly.
But then also more clarity for him talk, hopefully to his betterment where I can just figure out the person that I want to be the person that I want him to see me as how I want to raise him. How I want to present myself as a father husband business owner leader.
And I feel like when you have a kid you're just forced to be brutally honest with the man in the mirror and you can no longer take shortcuts, you can no longer, you know, you can no longer leave anything to chance because your actions are directly impacting. Some of that is relying 100% solely on you. So, it's a pretty great opportunity. If you're willing to do the work that accompanies that I feel, And you know what, your I haven't had that forcing function per se quite yet.
I think it's very different that, you know, when you've been been a leader in your, the people that you're working with or looking towards you for guidance, versus this is your child and they're going to probably pick up everything you do in a far more visceral level because they're around you 24
hours a day. Yeah, I can say when I see the biggest shifts in the guys that I With is when they have kids we've had we've had 6 home babies last year and all of them are to what I'll call late 20-something early. Something super like manly men, that were former athletes that went, that went to good schools that are really hungry and the moment they have their children, they changed and for the better, right? They calm down a little bit.
They find so much. We the number of babies we see on our stand ups on a daily basis is actually pretty amazing when they're they're literally taking a call and they have their babies in their arms but day of understood that it is their Journey actually like their journey is not this company their journey and their mission in life is to make sure they raise a one hell of a child, right? And it's, it's a very real thing.
Yeah. And ideally that parallels, you know, nicely with what they're doing in your company. I mean like you as the, you know, company founder co-founder. You're one of your jobs is to create an environment that causes growth at an extreme level for everyone involved for the better. So I mean it should be like a pretty symbiotic relationship. Yeah. I mean I hope so.
I hope I hope I get to do a good job and set up set a great example for them but I'll tell you, I learn from them, probably as much as I learn from myself because they're going through this experience before I am. And I know I'll be asking them for advice. I've got if I've, you know, at the end. No. Ali man will shoot, brother. We're over an hour in our, we have probably got to join other hormonal questions, but then we took this tangent off on, you know, business in mindset.
Which I'm glad we did because I can talk about this stuff all day long. Yeah, this is perfect. I actually got to got to make a run here myself so this is like perfect timing and like I really appreciate the tangent. I think it's great that. I love meeting guys that think the same way and kind of Live their life in accordance to those values because the reality is like I hate to say this.
Having an adopting, this mindset really is better than the one that I think most people kind of like just grow up and accepting the one that school teaches us. Yeah. And it's not that we want to put ourselves on a pedestal but we see people that go through that stereotypical mindset and they just seem unhappy. I don't want unhappiness for
anybody. That's that's really well said and it's not, I think the other point is that it's not putting the mind set on a pedestal and it's just one way to think it is, at least for me personally, based upon what I'm trying to get out of life. One, that's taken 40 years to really carefully, think about, and cultivate and put the wraps in in order to get there. And I think that once everyone identifies, what that mindset is for them, it really is just
going through the work. Yeah, 100% man. Real quick, brother, where people go to find out more about you your company and just a little deeper. So company is called hone. Its honey2 site is hone health.com, they can find me at Salam, it's sa L am at home health.com, or you can find me on Instagram that's MSI. Dalam MSA Ada L. Am on Instagram. Awesome man. Well, let's definitely keep in touch if we get Kindred Spirits for sure. There's everything I could do for you man.
Definitely don't hesitate to reach out and let me know for sure man. Thanks so much and thanks to everyone for listening to us. Take care bud. I've been later.