Evolutionary Nutrition with Dr. Bill Schindler

Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes. Ketose amazon.com coming back at you. Another podcast this time. I've got special guest. Dr. Bill Schindler on the line thoroughly thoroughly. Enjoy this conversation. This is the second time I've had him on the show and every time we talk, I mean, it's like Kindred Spirits. Here. We talk about our passion for Native American history and honestly just our upbringing as a species, what we ate to evolve

to what we are. Now how we procured that food, the tools that we use to process that food and just just What we eat and how to eat like humans, which is the name of his book. His new book eat like a human. So we Dove super deep into that and we talked about we talked about a lot of things but I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation.

If you have any interest whatsoever in kind of our our evolutionary past or history as a species from a developmental standpoint from a food and nutrition standpoint, you will find Value in this conversation and I've got no doubt that you will enjoy every single minute of it. So without further Ado, sit back, relax and enjoy the podcast with dr. Bill. Schindler. We are lab. Dr. Bill Schindler. How are you, sir? Good, how are you? I'm doing wonderful woman.

I'm excited to get you back home. We talked like I said, I don't remember what month or year. It's been. It's been quite a while ago now. But we talked about Evolution how we have evolved to eat what we do the tools that we use to do such. But you've recently had a new Book come out. Eat like humans is what's called, right? Yep, like a human nourishing foods and ancient ways of cooking to revolutionize your health. I am super excited about it. Yeah, man, I'm super excited for

you. So this is a topic that I've always been super interested in before keto and nutrition or any of that stuff. My first Passion was Native American history, and just how we had, you know, eating and lived prior to on the technological advancements that we are, you know, comfy all the Creature Comforts, that we have nowadays with, I guess. So before we dive into the book, man, give me some backstory for people that have not heard the

first conversation that we hand. What got you into this, you know, this, this area of study to begin with. Well, you know, we, I think we share a lot in common. My, I was so passionate, especially early in life with Native Americans and ancient ways of living my father, had me out hunting and fishing and trapping all the time, which was

a huge deal. Because I grew up in a suburb in New Jersey suburbs in New York City, and it was quite an effort to To get me to a place where we could actually do these things. I was forging and we were looking for arrowheads and Fields and and all of that. And, you know, this entire time growing up. I had this great connection, my parents, great connection to the outdoors, Career Connection to my past. But man, I was battling. I was battling weight. I was battling metabolic

disease. I was, I was, I was really unhealthy relationship with food, and it was so strange because so much in my life. It was centered on places that I could find the answers. The problems that I was facing. I just didn't know to look there because I just going to Tricia nest and listening to diet books and all those sorts of things. My doctors, and it wasn't until I started to get. Do my graduate work for, my PhD, in archaeology that.

I realized that all of these, all these interests and hobbies have had my entire life were held the keys to understanding, how to battle my issues with Weight and Body Image and health. And when I started putting those two things, Things together and special diets, and diet, and health. And those sorts of things that I really started to not only Revolution my own revolutionize, my own health, but feed my family in the most nourishing

way possible. And it's been a several decades Journey for me. It started with archaeology and more recently over the past 15 years. My family and I have traveled all over the world and live and work with indigenous and traditional groups and how they cooked and how they process and repaired their foods. And I my wife and I realized We have learned so much and how to feed our own family that we wanted to share with the world and that's resulted in this book.

I love him and I feel like, you know, I'm guilty of this probably all are guilty of it at some point in time, but we get so caught up in all the the advancements that we make as a species and we often times do so at our own demise because we just assume that things that were done prior aren't as good. But I've had this Reawakening, so to speak, since I've kind of, you know, went on the ketogenic rabbit home. About just kind of returning to more of what's worked.

So well in the past because in certain areas like our societal Health, as a case in point, things just have not gotten better. So kind of winding the clock back the other way and going back to more of our primitive Roots. I think that is absolutely Paramount in so many different ways 100%. And you know, what's really interesting? Is it all depends on how you frame the discussion and it bring the argument and what you define as advancement, right?

So I use I used to teach a watching the college. I was a professor there for almost 15 years and mostly archaeology anthropology and food related courses and I would start almost every class and I'd had the students. I'd say, listen guys. Tell me what you think are, you know, these wonderful advancements of modern day life.

And I feel the board up with all these Advanced which I know and they would always say the same thing like modern Healthcare System and doctors and you know, convenient foods and Do those sorts of things? And then we would really kick them apart and we change reframe the discussion, senior. What we compare this to the Past, you know, what is what's really valuable here. What is advancement, really,

really mean? And when we look at, you know, what our health, we look at and our ancestors skeletons and not and even if you go back, even twenty thousand years or five thousand years and you look at a lot of these skeletons and you look at the amazing Health that most of them in. Wade, we you start to reframe that discussion about the need for a modern medicine at the beaver doctors that need for these sorts of things and, and same sort of things.

We thought the Army's everybody would say, we need one of the greatest advancements of Modern Life. My students are overseas and have these amazing armies. Well, when you look at hunter-gatherer societies and these egalitarian societies, yeah, certainly people. There was, there was violence. People got killed. There's no doubt, but there was no evidence of organized Warfare. There wasn't a need for an army.

So when you reframe the discussion really put it, use the context of our strong firm understanding of our past. It really changes all these things. When we think about advancement in the form of something like food processing, which is where my research is focused. And if you say food processing, most of us, think it's a very

bad thing. And it is when we look at the Modern food system, because most of the modern food system, today is processing, the food for the sole purpose of making Some company or some small group of people incredibly Rich at the expense of our health, but food processing in the past for literally 3.4 million years was almost always focused on increasing the safety, nutrient density and bioavailability of foods. And in fact, it was solely a

result of food processing. We were able to fuel our growing bodies and brains and make our create our species Homo sapiens. So again, that word advancement is a loaded word. And in order to have a discussion about it and understand what it really means, you have to contextualize it. And I think the right way to do that, is through a firm understanding of our past. Yeah. I totally agree. I mean there's without a doubt

certain advancements. Like, if I break my leg, you know, I want to go to a modern, you know, healthcare provider as opposed to, what would have been the the route, you know, 250 value, but with things like as as chronic as just underlying health issues that people are plagued with these days, diabetes, things of that nature like Most of that was just not an issue way back in the day and you know, people look at you know, it goes Way Beyond food to like I had a podcast last week

about light exposure and how people are just totally wrecking their natural circadian rhythms because of all the screens are constantly gazing into. So like just simply going back to more of a holistic circadian. Rhythm, you know, you wake up in the sun comes up, you go to sleep or sun goes down, like a simple. As that may sound.

That is like there's so much health to be found in that and like when you bring in all these new variables, like the The cell phones and the you know constant Netflix binge has that people are on nowadays. It's not doing anything for your health in the positive way. No, and especially one because a lot of what you just mentioned is not a one-off thing. It's an every single day habit that builds up over time just like with our food system, these small changes in our food

system. While one of them might not be a huge deal, getting a little bit of sleep or screwing up our circadian rhythm, or, you know, one time a week or something like that might not be a big deal, but Doing it day after day. After day, week after week, month after month year after year old these things build up and create the situation that were in today and I knew there was a huge push back about 10 years ago in the anthropological Community against this romanticizing of the past.

And I do want to make sure that It's acknowledge that I'm not necessarily doing that or really none of us are it was this idea? There was a book called Shoot forget the name of the book, but it was a book. That was very, very popular about 10 years ago that was focused on trying to make sure that people understood that the past wasn't all rainbows and unicorns, and I think we can certainly celebrate the

wonderful things of the past. While at the same time, understanding that it was All rainbows and unicorns, for example, a lot of babies died in the past because of a lot of different reasons we can certainly go into but you know, people worked incredibly hard to get their food and they were in the face of extreme elements sometimes in the and those sorts of things and that's fine. That's all wonderful.

But at the same time we have to realize that for the majority of three and a Half million years, what are and the Very fact that you and I are sitting here having this conversation and that were doing. So in relatively large bodies with massive brains compared to other mammals means that what

they were doing in the past. As a whole, not Overlook all the diversity of different times in different places in the world, but as a whole our ancestors were doing so well with how they were living and dealing with the elements dealing with the

outside world and most. My mind dealing with the natural resources and doing things those resources to make them as safe and hurting as possible for their bodies that they literally built us as a species, both biologically and culturally through their advancements and we can't Overlook that. So I still think that the best way for us to try to sort of get her hit that refresh button and try to understand the best way to deal. With our really stone-age

bodies. I mean, are we are peered 300,000 years ago as modern-day Homo sapiens, but the same light needs rest needs. Nutritional needs as we have today. The best way to even begin to understand, it is to have that comprehensive understanding of

our best. Yeah. I'm 100% agree and it's interesting because you know, I'm 30 years old when I look back at you know, how I was brought up like the textbooks that I was familiar with, you know going through school grade school even like It shows, you know, the advancements that we've made over the Millennia and what an early humans life look like, you know, and there's oftentimes pictures of came in eaten, a freaking saber-toothed tiger leg or something, you know, woolly, mammoths and

everything. And like that's just what's in my generation, kind of saw in the textbooks, going through school, but it's interesting like you dive into the past now and you start, you know, especially like from a nutritional space. And, you know me being an advocate for the ketogenic diet, there being a whole lot of momentum, gained in the carnivore. Communities, like going back and trying to pull that.

This is how we had evolved to eat, you know, card and there's just a ton of pushback that you get on that. And I don't know if it's mostly from just a bunch of propaganda out there. But is there like a general consensus from the people that are in the know with regard to how we have evolved each as a species? Is that like a pretty well agreed upon a theory or is there just A lot of division in that space.

Now there's there, I would say there's a lot of division in that space and the reason is because so much of our interpretation of the past is impacted and influenced by things that are happening and our modern day life. For example, if you a lot a lot of archaeology was done and those archaeological sites were interpreted in the in the mid we In the mid 19th century or sorry 20th century right after World War 2 and there was a big push during World War two people.

Excelling Norton talked about this, a lot as well. But there was a big push for these Liberty Gardens and growing, you know, we we can't do what we got to do to help our troops. Will don't eat meat on these days so we can save it for the troops and girl these vegetables in your backyard. And there was this big push in this, this sort of universal understanding. In that it was something inherently valuable in plant

foods. And as a result of that, you know, here we are, having are a lot of archaeologists living in this at that time period, with this mindset, interpreting archaeological sites and no matter what Archaeology, and the way we go about doing Archaeology is very mathematical, very scientific. But as soon as you take an artifact out of the ground, everything that happens from that point forward is And no matter how unbiased archaeologists try to be. There's always a biased in that.

So there was a lot of interpretation of prehistoric life. That was a very, you know, that plants were incredibly important and they work, they don't get me wrong. They were important, but they downplay die in my mind, as a result of all these other political and social things happening. At the time. They downplayed the importance of the role of animals and our prehistoric diets.

And this one on for Decades, and it wasn't until really the past 20, or maybe 30 years, that a lot of those interpretations of the same exact sites began to change. And here we are. Now, I mean, Maya archaeology advisor for my graduate degree is a die-hard Regan. And here we, he's literally one of the best archaeologists in eastern North America and he's retired now, but he's interpreted. Tons of sites.

And there's no doubt that his Take On The World, his place and that the role of humans and plants and animals and died, and all that has played a role in how he's interpreted these prehistoric sites. And I will say this, people, like me and Mickey bender and other archaeologists and anthropologists, who wholeheartedly believe that animal Foods, especially awful and fat played an essential role in us becoming human. And there's even though I tried

to be as unbiased as possible. I'm sure that that perspective plays a large role in how I interpret sites. So that what, I guess what I'm trying to say is we could have several different archaeologists with several different perspectives interpreting the same exact site and coming up with, with different ideas about what happened there in the past. And the further, back you go. More difficult. It is to make a, you know, a truly accurate interpretation.

And at the same time the other thing we have to remember is the kind of time periods that I'm talking about are spending

millions of years. So not only is there a lot of diversity throughout time, but also throughout Place, some of these things are happening in different parts of Africa, some are happening later in parts of Europe and, you know, you have a ton of diversity and resources, and cultures, and these sorts of things that we can't Overlook that as well, but the short answer your Yes, there is a divide this quite a lot of the vision and even in the archaeological and

anthropological committee on these diets. Well, I've had I've had Mickey bender on as well and he had a really interesting, you know, hypothesis and that, you know, people early species that are trying to survive the elements that are going to prioritize the most calorically dense food because that's going to be the greatest, you know, cost-benefit analysis. Basically, like you have a greater currency calories, being currency in that.

And, and that makes sense to me that you have to take into account that there may be a little more danger and going after a, woolly mammoth and there is and, you know, scraping up some some root fibers, but I feel like, you know, where the end of day like, if you're trying to survive and you've got two people that, you know, a group of people that could potentially bring down something with so much more of a caloric currency. Like, it would make a lot more

sense to put your your eggs in that basket. 100% and I love his work and I wholeheartedly agree with what he said. And I would also say in addition to using calories as currency in a conversation and argument like that on top of that, we're talking about. If you take the hard part, if you look at the Technologies, which is where my focus is over the past three and a half million years that our ancestors created to help them gain access to nutrition in different resources. Right?

A lot of effort was put into hunting technology overcoming our Physical limitations and being able to hunt from a distance and throw Spears or atlatls or boomerangs or throwing sticks or bows and arrows or whatever. It was. A lot of effort goes into the actual caption Technologies related to the capture of that animal. But as soon as you take that animal down, the only thing you need is a sharp edge and you have almost complete access. As you note.

Almost all the nutrients safely have complete access to almost all the nutrients inside of that animal. In fact, the same some cases with some of the organ Meats. Cooking them gets rid of some of the nutritional value of it. So you could literally rip that animal apart with a sharp edge and devoured and get access to incredible nutrition on the

other hand. If you look at the technologies that were developed over time, when you're talking about plants, it's not as much about the getting of the plants, right? It's about what you do when you get that plant because every single plant has toxins in it and you have to be Deal with, especially wild plants, you have to deal with those toxins before you can safely consume that food. And on top of that, even though plants do have nutrition in them.

Most of that nutrition is locked up in a way that it's not easily accessible to our bodies. So you either in many cases, especially again, with wild plants. You need to either cook them or dehydrate them, or ferment them, or eat them with clay, or do a whole host of other things even gain access to safely, gain access to the nutrients and those plants. So, again, on top of the, you

know, It's easy and he's right. It's easy to stand back and say, oh my gosh, taking down a woolly mammoth gives you a hell of a lot more calories than been digging plants and you know all the sorts of stuff and it's true but then there's that fine minutiae of okay, once that animals taken down or once you have this pile of roots or the style of whatever, the special material is. What do you have to do to overcome your, physical limitations as a human and are

incredibly inefficient. Digestive tracts, the accessed safely and effectively the nutrients that Are in that in that food, that's sitting in front of you. And then, then his argument is even more even more valid. Yeah, I agree. And I feel like, I mean, I've heard arguments from from Amber O'Hearn that show, you know, slides of the digestive tract of a human being versus that of an orangutan. For instance and the fact that, you know, everything is just so much more shorter.

I mean our digestive tract, some is more similar to a predatory cat than it is, you know, a primate. And I feel like that alone, you know, that that should have a pretty good indicating Factor there and The people on the opposing side. That's a just, just look at our teeth. You know, look at our teeth are teeth are not that of a predatory can't, but my argument is that if you have tools, if you have sharp objects, and there's no need to evolve the teeth to tap into that resource.

Anyways, I've absolutely we haven't need needed sharp canines for three and a half million years. Once we created when you can we can create a sharp edge in less than a second that is sharper than any tooth on any animal on the planet in less than a second. So We don't that that Pete, the tooth argument makes absolutely no sense. But you know, the obverse of the other side of that. What you said about the digestive tract is incredibly important.

Our digestive tract is 60%, the size that it should be for a primate of a similar size as us right at 60%, that size. So that that talks everything about length, small intestinal length for the, you know, the amount of time that food can sit in the small intestines. The nutrients can be absorbed the size of the stomach, which Greatly impacts the amount of food that we can eat in any given time.

All of these things are point to the need and for us as humans to process our food properly before it even goes into our mouths and we have to do this. We are only. I'm convinced humans are only perfectly designed to consume one food at a certain time in our life. I mean, if you think about it, other other wild animals. Other animals and specifically wild animals are designed by logical design eating diets that they eat.

They eat a certain food that they have, the right equipment, right inside of their bodies to deal with and everything works out. Fine. Humans are different because we've created these Technologies to access all sorts of resources that we had. Absolutely no business eating. We require, we started creating processing food, outside of our bodies, our bodies jump in size our brains jump inside. The same time that our digestive tract was actually getting smaller.

We require these Technologies to process the food before it goes and that's one of the major differences between humans and other animals. So the only food, the only food that we are biologically designed to consume as humans is dairy from our mothers when we're infants and then when we start weaning ourselves off, just like all other mammals do, when when mammals infants are weaned off of breast milk or

mother's milk. Luke, they cease or slow down the production of certain enzymes, like lactase and Thomas, and these other sorts of things that allow us to safely do it and then they get gonna go on the diets that they're designed to consume. But humans are different, right? Humans. We were eating prior to any Technologies. We were eating a limited amount of wild, fruits and vegetables and insects.

That's it. So, when we started introducing technologies, that allowed us to butcher later, one that allowed us to cook and Hunt and then ferment, and then to practice things like mr. Motivation or geology, or eating Earthly food at the same time. Then we started to get access, you know, we started the out. Eat our digestive tract and access. All these nutrients from environment that we never had access to before, and our bodies

and brains responded. And now, here we are, as is modern-day humans with these huge bodies in these huge brains police. Incredibly intensive nutritional requirements, but we're not biologically equipped to access. Them, without the right sorts of technology, and it work forever. But now, the technology, that's, that's, that's guiding. Our modern food system is not working in our favor. It's not working towards safety and nutrient, density and

nutrient bioavailability. It's actually processing food at the expense of all of those things. And I think that's where we really need to put our energy and our Focus. Because most of us are worried about what reading and what are we putting into our mouths? Should we be drinking? Dairy? Should we be eating bread? Should we be eating protein to reduce? While all those things are important for missing, is that larger picture? That that how are we eating? How are we pregnant?

Because how we're processing, Dairy makes a very important distinction between other. Not that final food is something we should consume or something. We should never put into our mouths. How are we processing grains? How are we, how are we dealing with animals? How are we doing with a just? But literally every food that's in our food scape, the technology involved with how

that food is being processed. Is something we need to pay attention to. And when you look at most of the people, like you said in the beginning, people just assume processing itself as a bad word. I mean, simply taking a knife to a tenderloin is technically processing. When you, when you start looking at how most food is processed these days like, everything. I mean, everything is prioritize

from a profit standpoint. So oftentimes nutrients are absolved and you're just getting remaining calories in bulk and using like process seat. That are how the oxidative and inflammatory as the the main, you know, source of calories. So when you look at what we have evolved to eat from a processing standpoint, you know, like is there like a, you know, a T20

now so to speak. Like if everybody kind of fell into this category that would that would cure most issues or is there so much individuality and that regard as well? So what you devalue quality into what he mean in actual people, or their food choices on understand what you mean? Yeah, like into into the people independent of the food choices, so to speak. Because I mean, a lot of people

like, it's interesting man. We start diving into nutritional choices, you know, I've said in the podcast before, like every other animal out, there has a specific diet that is, that is fit for the animal. Like we all know what lions eat. We all know what dogs eat, we all know what dolphins eat, but you look at humans and that's the one species that nobody knows. What the hell are supposed to eat and it's like, it's comical. You know, I know what I like to

eat. But I mean, you can make a pretty good argument that there's people thriving on all corners of the world, eating vastly different diet. So, I don't know how much of that is genetic. How much of that is, you know, hereditary how much of that is, you know, locational based environmental, but bringing it to an argument from like a processing standpoint, and what tools were used to produce that food. I like that argument. That, that makes sense to me.

Yeah, I think I think a great way to what may have started to to describe this. Now, as you know, we know that humans are omnivores, but we know that it's in all the textbooks in the Biology book. Humans are omnivores, but what we fail to recognize is that we're not omnivores by Design, we're omnivores bike technology. We are not designed to be omnivores, but we figured out ways through technology. And again, these are incredibly basic Technologies, many cases,

stone tools. Fire fermentation, those sorts of things through those Technologies. We have out eating right? Our digestive tracts and figured out ways to subsist and in some cases thrive on a variety of different resources that were not necessarily. This is the hard part two graphs that were not necessarily biologically designed to consume, but we biologically need the nutrition from and again, I know that's strange, but let me let me We back that up real quick.

Remember, we started three over millions and millions of years ago, eating only with if we have no Technologies whatsoever. And we're just think about us shrunk down to a full grown adult about three and a half feet, tall brain the size of my fist and throw you out into the African Wilderness and say live. And once your weaned off your mother, you every food that you get, you have to collect with your hands and process with your teeth in your inefficient digestive tract.

So you are literally eating a limited amount of wild plants and insects that that that's literally what you're eating. And and that's why we were a small as we won't stay too small. You were until we invented our first stone tool, 3.0 3.3 million years ago and all of a sudden. Now, we were Scavenging, the the flesh left on dead animals on the savanna that were killed by

another animal. And then we grew a little bit and then at about 2 million years when we develop hunting technology, we had First access to the entirety of the animal and that we weren't left with, just the flesh or we could eat the blood, the fat and the organs, most nutrient dense, and bioavailable parts these animals. And then we created firing to cook our foods and we invented fermentation, and a whole host of other technologies that

allowed us to slowly. Obtain more and more diverse nutrients from our environment and process them. So our bodies could actually access safely and efficiently. The nutrients that were in those foods and every time we're doing this our bodies responded, right? And we got, we grew in size and our brains grow in size. So, we were literally domesticating ourselves over millions of years. The point where now, here we are in these modern bodies and modern brains that if I took

anybody. And I don't care, I don't care who Or if your Bear Grylls, if you're the best survival sin, the world that you all did and a wild plants and do all the behavior patterns of animals and knew how to survive and threw you in the middle of the woods with no Technologies whatsoever. We would all die because we would not be able to support and nutritional needs of these bodies without creating the Technologies needed to process these materials from our

environment. That's, I mean, that's the reality in the fragility of our species, and we don't see much of that because most of us, Us are so disconnected from our food system that a lot of the food processing and all those things are happening, you know, behind the scenes, but our we require Technologies to process food to make it a safe inertia as possible and and that's just the reality of it. Yeah, that makes total sense in my mind.

I've heard Arguments for our brain development, the Catalyst for brain development, being a mutation and that increased brain development is what led to us. Having the wherewithal to create tools, is it that way or do you

view it more? So as you know, we were able to just kind of happenstance upon something sharp, and then we started be able to have access to scavenged remains and then eventually, you know, first choice on these animals and that was the Catalyst for the for the brain development.

What's the? It's kind of like a classic chicken or egg and kind of question, you know, it is a chicken and an egg argument and I don't know the answer, but I'll tell you a few things that they got at least my way of thinking about it. The first thing is one thing we, oh, I think we have any clear about is getting more nutrition, whether or not it's because we're hunting or Scavenging or whatever. We're doing, didn't wasn't the Catalyst for larger brains and larger bodies.

Now, I was doing a TV peace in Ireland a few years ago and we were, you know, we're making some tools and Butcher and things out and but old know anything, the Wilderness in Ireland. And the host, they asked me since, you know about this, In Excel. What if you just read a chimpanzee, a whole bunch of food, a whole bunch of meat right now with their brains get

bigger. So, no, you'd have a well-fed chimpanzees, his reality of it. It wasn't that we were Increasing our, you know, dietary nutrition and it was pushing our brains and our bodies get bigger. There was some other catalysts or a host of other catalysts that were happening. That was the spark and the increased nutritional availability is what allowed those changes to actually supported those changes over

time. And I don't want us to have the idea either that it was a, it was a one-time thing. It was like, oh, all of a sudden that too many Our brains jump in size, until only time it happened. If you look at and I wish I had a chart to show you, but if you, if you started at even three and a half million years ago and shorted the brain growth development through time. It's not this species has a certain brain size and then all

of a sudden. The next species has a brain size, a little bigger in the next species, a little bit bigger, but it's not the way that it worked. It was if you look at that individual species over time, some of these species These are on the planet for millions of years. They have a certain brain size when they first appear and they whatever they were doing. Whatever the spark was. Whatever the nutritional back up

that supported. It was their brains were growing as they were on this planet right over thousands hundreds of thousands millions of years. So if you take saying also put the same when they first appeared in office has seen when they became extinct, their brains are much larger at the end and they were in the beginning.

Thing for Homo habilis. Same thing for Homo erectus same thing for neanderthals, but what's interesting is when you hit Homo sapiens, we appear with a certain brain size at 300,000 years ago, and it plateaus. In fact, it's not only straight line. Our brains are actually slightly smaller now than they were three hundred thousand years ago. So, I bring this up because it wasn't one event wasn't one food. It wasn't one thing that allowed this to happen. It was a multitude of factors.

Some, we have some ideas about and I'll explain them in just a minute. Some we have yet to discover, but it was consistently happening over time. Now, certainly in certain periods of time like a 2 million years ago when we start humping and develop fire Technologies, our brains and bodies jump in size our brains exponentially grow. So I think it was a huge. I think those hunting and Fire. I played in it a huge role in the development of our ancestors.

But again throughout the entirety of three million years up until more recent times, our brains and bodies will continuously growing even within the same species. Now, there's been a lot of ideas about what that worked at Catalyst. Might be, I've heard everything from the hallucinogenic drugs which allowed us to potentially think outside of the box and you know, expand our brain Ends that then that was the Catalyst supported by this food.

There's, there's a valid argument several arguments that have to do with increased population size. And as you know, and anybody listening to this knows one of the most taxing things for our brains is creating and maintaining relationships. And the more people that we have access to more difficult. That is and it requires literally complex thinking and if we started as a band of know, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, Twelve people.

And then those groups were growing and growing and growing and developing more complex City that alone could be. It's a very simplistic argument, but that could be one of the catalysts to force our brains to get a little bit bigger. And again thinking outside of the box got you ain't got you. So this is super fancy to me because you know, kind of going back to that, you know, early childhood textbooks, things like everything that I saw was look, we started eating more.

Meet and we started having access to better nutrition and that was the Catalyst, but then like you said with the chimpanzee, like if you give them a bunch of ribs, they're not necessary and get smarter. So I like the I mean, I think the concept of there being some type of genetic mutation that is evolving from generation to generation that's leading to this increased. Brain development, makes sense.

But either way, we're getting bigger brains, and we're using that increased knowledge to develop tools and processing techniques. Deprioritize and meet more so than anything else, I would? Yes, although I would say animal more than just me, right? That's I think that's a huge piece of it. But yes, to prioritize animal resources over over other things. I'm confident that because when you look at it from like a locational base standpoint, like when all this is going down, you

said, Homo sapiens. Come into the picture about 300,000 years ago. I mean, when was the last ice age in which the availability? In abundance of vegetation of just significantly diminished. The last ice age ended between twelve and fifteen thousand years ago. So it did, there were tons of ice ages.

And so the most recent one ended about told 15,000 years ago and there was like, even when there was not an Ice Age per se in occurrence, there wasn't near the Panacea of vegetation to pick from, you know, throughout the globe like there is now because we're able to, you know, farming, all the advances we've made from an agricultural standpoint have led to Greater

abundance. In you know plants as a food source, but like before all that technological advancement came, I guess I shouldn't say advancement but just technology came there was nothing near the abundance of vegetation. So there is a larger percentage of the species, the human species that had to rely more heavily on meat as opposed to getting all of their needs met through vegetation, correct? Oh 100% And and again remember that it's not as simple, you

know, I think. What when I used to fall into this trap, this idea that, when we're thinking about how people in the past had access to different, plant resources, the Imaging in my head used to be. Oh, what is it like in the produce section of the grocery store that you can just go in with your, with your shopping cart? Just load your shopping cart that and that's what the the outside world was to them. That's not the case not.

Again, even the plants in your grocery store every single plant, on this planet has some level of toxin in some are fairly benign. Some will kill you outright. Many of them will build up in your body over time and cause chronic issues later, but all plants even in the grocery store. Have some level of toxin in them that we have to consider as you're making choices about what you're going to consume how much when and how we're going to

process them. But that's, that's more important when we're looking at wild plants and the need for technology to process these Foods before we eat them. It's not as simple as. Oh, that's a planet. They pick it up. Going to eat it. So there's a plant. I need to understand that plant. What do I have to do to that plant to make it safe to eat? And what do I have to do to make those nutrients in it available

to me? And then only then can I consume it. And if you look at the staple foods, in a lot of and even still living traditional societies, things like manioc, South America, or potatoes in parts of South America, the wild version of those plants were incredibly. Toxic like will kill you toxic and required extensive processing in order to make them safe to eat. So here we are with looking at the staple foods of a lot of groups around the world that were incredibly toxic plants that.

Either a lot of the toxins were bred out of them through selective pressure and agriculture, or they're still using processing techniques to overcome. Those toxins. Manioc is Pez a Sinai producing compound in it. That requires extensive processing from grading and drying, and fermenting. And then if you do it wrong, there's still people that die every year from from poisoning, from it. There's potatoes that are still growing today.

I just, I did research a couple years ago in Bolivia and Peru with aymara and quechua groups, where they're still growing is incredibly toxic versions of potatoes, and they're either fermenting them from Over six months in a picnic ground to detoxify them, or other groups are literally eating potatoes with clay. At the same time, the clay binds to the toxins in the potato and pass safely through their digestive tract. Well, they can get the nutrients

from them. So, you know, even if we're talking about a group of people that want to be massive quantities of plants, it's not like walking through the produce section of the grocery store with a shopping cart. Yeah, totally. And I mean, I'm not a hardcore, you know, beat my drum carnivore, by any means. Ends and say that, you know, humans should only eat meat and every vegans, you know, totally incorrect.

However, there's so many people, you know, from the vegan based community that say I just want to return to what is more natural and you know, kind of how we've how we've eaten. And when you just start pulling the curtain back is just not really the case. I mean you look at you know, anything in the produce aisle these days even like a like a, you know cam of corn on a cob of corn, you know half a million years ago. Or not even have been years ago,

like 300,000 years ago. Was it looked more like a blade of grass than a cob of corn that you see today? So it's like, it's not even the same food group anymore hardly. Well, not even three thousand ways to go 10,000 years ago. It was, it was a, it was a have sent a that. The ancestors was just a blade of grass.

And yet we forget it's crazy. Because when same thing that I mentioned earlier, if you if you go back in time, just just like you just, did you go back in time and look at At how our relationship with this particular food started. What was that food? Like, what were the conditions under which we start eating that food. It paints an entirely different picture of what were being told Now by Major food marketing companies and the media and all

these sorts of things. So a great example is corn or Maize. If you let your yard grow and don't mow it, the stuff, you know, and and all of us at some kind of miss the patch of grass hearing and it came to seed You're looking at, when you look at that, overgrown grass is exactly what pay a cent. They the ancestors to Corn would have looked like 10,000 years ago or very, very, very similar.

And it is only because we genetically modified it, even 10,000 years ago, through selective pressure. What closer to nine thousand years ago, but that we were able to select for bigger kernels and we were able to select for you. If you look at early days and sometimes even grown today, every single kernel, right? Every single kernel of corn, used to be encased in its own sheath.

So, you know, how you get a cob of corn today and you, you know, you shuck the corn you had to shook every single kernel. So one of the genetic mutations that our ancestors select before was the ability to have the entire theme tasting, just one big sheet. So you can Harvest it much more easily. There is nothing natural, nothing natural about corn and you can have, you can have that same argument and talk about all the different plants in Our advice. They are And in fact, many of

the animals as well. I mean chicken unfortunately. Chicken breast is still celebrated by so many people that want to get healthy. There is nothing natural about chicken breasts. I mean, we have domesticated a bird to the point where it doesn't fly anymore and then we celebrate the part of that bird that muscle, that doesn't even work right breast. And so, looking back in time really helps clarify, or put at least a different lens. It's on all of these different arguments, totally agree.

I want to dive into the the fire that you mentioned because you know, you said that once you're really kind of harnessed fire as a tool from a processing standpoint can cook. That's so from a nutrient availability standpoint. There's some things are going to be some new Tunes going to get lost when you cook them in. Some are going. We're going to gain better access to them after they've

been cooked. So when it comes to things like like muscle meat, for instance, Are we gaining more from a nutritional standpoint after that's been cooked versus Raw? Yeah, there's been there's been some work done in in this area. So it looks like first off most of the enemy. If we forget about the muscle for a second, forget about the Flesh. And look at the rest of the

animal. So the blood, the fat in the organs, the marrow the brains, those parts of the animal are in most cases, most nutritious most bioavailable just as they are in their raw state. If you cook them a little It's not that big of a deal certainly. If you overcook them, or boil them too much or whatever. You're losing some nutrients, but for the most part, you can get a meeting. Our human body can have direct access to almost all the nutrients in the awful without

any processing whatsoever. Now, red meat red muscle meat is slightly and I mean, only slightly more difficult for our human body to fully access nutrients in without any help whatsoever. /. And the two things that helped and these were told very early Technologies, was one is mechanically processing that food. In other words, simply slicing dicing grading, you know, grinding it up, mixing it up. So that's number one. And if you look at chimpanzees, when they don't often eat red

meat. But when they do, they almost always eat a particular Leaf at the same time as they eat this, this meat and the leaf doesn't provide any nutritional value. It's a very high. Look up containing leaf and it's almost like sandpaper. And when they're, when they're chewing the leaf in this meet. At the same time that leaf is actually helping shred that meet up and mechanically process it before they before they swallow it. Mmm, and if you think about the ways that some modern humans eat

were all red meat. If we go to a high-end restaurant, it's exactly done. This way. We can either have either have beef carpaccio, which is slice incredibly thin, or beef tartare, which is Popped up like hamburger meat. So that's number one. So a little bit of mechanical processing helps us gain access to the nutrients in that meat. And the second thing is, it turns out a little bit of cooking? And I mean, just a little bit, also helps relieve some of those

nutrients. So, and know, this sounds incredibly strange, but probably the most bioavailable way to eat red. Meat is a medium or a hamburger. Which is done in both of those things are done, you know, they're it's minced up and it's also just slightly cooked. Yeah. No, I can totally get behind him anymore. Hamburger. There's been a big push here lately. It's kind of weird, man. Like I've been in the dieting space for so long and attrition space for so long.

I see all these Hypes and these bubbles form and people get so dogmatic and it's just, it's comical, but there's been this big push here lately for everybody to, you know, return to Natural natural state eat everything raw raw carnivore for the win, and I'm not opposed to that.

I don't personally eat a whole bunch of just raw anything but there's there's like when you when you go back in time and you start saying, okay, I'm going to eat like they did three hundred thousand years ago, 200,000 years ago. I mean everything, raw carnivore or slightly cook it. Like I would be willing to bet that a lot of what you see back.

Then from an animal standpoint. He isn't played with near the parasites and and issues that are in the modern food supply due to overpopulation factory farming, things of that nature. So it's not probably a safe thing to go, you know, full-blown. Grab some, you know, Raw Liver Off the Wall. Mart supermarkets shelf in the Sardine that wrong. Oh, what? I'm 100% 100%. So and it's also very important to recognize that. You know, what I'm talking about here is the absolute best practice.

If you want to get the most amount of nutrients from every single bite that you take, you know, maximize all of it. This is this is this is what I'm talking about. However, no matter what. And an overly cooked steak is going to provide you with a lot more nutrients in a more bioavailable State than just about any vegetable on the planet. Right? Or or or I I don't like raw liver. I just I can do raw. Chicken liver fine.

We're all beef liver. Its I don't do a very good job with it, but I love pate and that's cook. So I might not be 100% maximizing every Every single minutiae of that particular food, but it's still 1,000 times better than just about anything else that that I could eat. So and you make a very good point.

I would say the same thing. I am a huge raw milk Advocate, especially in fermented raw, dairy, but, and I wholeheartedly think the safest, most nutrient dense and viable form of dairy is fermented raw dairy from From a high-quality well-raised well-cared-for, cow and the milks been treated the right way. It's the safest form of dairy. However, it raw dairy can also be one of the most dangerous

forms of dairy. And it all has to do with how that animals raised what it's fed, how the milk has dealt with that sort of the, you know, comes out and the like, so it's the same thing with the meat that you talking about. No eating raw chicken liver or her role liver, raw meat from an incredible. Healthy animal is a Different thing than getting it Off the Wall. Mart shelf and bring it home and be frosting, it trying to enter. I need it. They're two completely different

things. Yeah, totally. Green. I think, you know, a lot of people get so hung up on the very surface level stuff like, you know, the macronutrient distribution calories and that's all super important. You know, I think it definitely deserves it's time to line line. But I feel like, you know, really going like as you get deeper and deeper into nutrition as which is true of anything as you get deeper into anything.

You really start to see all these rabbit holes, you go into to and, you know, my Evolution through diet nutrition has led to really place in a lot of significance on where things were sourced. And you know, what, they were fed because that's going to have a byproduct on my body's ability to, you know, take him that nutrition and have it more bioavailable. And just honestly from a, from a

moral, and ethical standpoint. I like knowing that the food that I'm eating was raised humanely, or I do a lot of hunting, so was slaughtered humanely. I think, you know, it's not probably fees. Of the entire eight billion people on the Earth population to know exactly where everything was sourced and take up hunting. But I feel like people that have the means to should absolutely try and make that more of a priority. And just simply get closer to where their food is sourced and

comes from 100%. And I would also say, it doesn't even have to be that all, or most of their food comes from from something, like hunting or even fishing that even going once a year or or tagging along with a buddy. The and going once in your life and being a part of that process, I think is incredibly important and makes you look at the Modern meat industry in a completely different way. And I would say not only the sourcing of the animals things

like like hunting, or raising. Your own animals is incredibly important but also the the slaughtering and the butchering on credibly important. So if you don't have access to, you know, maybe going out, and going hunting, depending on where you live, or what your social network is like, But you do have access to actually seeing somebody butcher, an animal, do it and take your kids.

If and that is one of the things I write about in The Book of the animal section is that there's no bones and skin and feathers and hair in our kitchens anymore. And our kids don't, it's very difficult for them to associate. What that chicken breasts on their plate, and something that was living in a once living on And we couch, I've been at so many different tables, where we're eating meat, on a plate and somebody mentions an animal and they shut the conversation

down. No, we can't go talk about animals. I don't want to think about it. I just want to eat my food and not even think about it. And because the exact wrong way that, that sort of approach has got us in the place. We are. Now we've turned our back on and and haven't paid attention to what's happening in the modern food industry. He's Capo's and know, all the, all the horrors of a lot of the

modern industry. Have happened on our watch while we weren't watching and you know, we make a point when I when I bring an animal of this house likewise, I do a lot of hunting, we bring whole animals into the house and even if it's something that's domesticated. We bring half pigs and put them on the counter and butcher them on the counter.

The kids are a part of it, and sometimes if they're not a part of it, they at least see it. And I know for some people that all may sound strange, but at least go to the grocery store and bring home an entire chicken where the it resembles the shape of an animal and there's bone Bones and their skins. And even though it's in a little plastic bag on the inside. There's no liver and Gizzard and a heart on the inside and maybe even the neck. If you're lucky.

Those are the kinds of things that I think are our families and our kids need to see because it builds respect and we understand there's a responsibility. There's it's okay. In fact, I think we're supposed to remember that. Something is once living and now it's dead. And now we're nourish your families. As a result of it, 100% man. Like I've always said that, You know my my perspective as a hunter and having the opportunity to take a life has only heightened my appreciation for life.

And I feel like that can be said, I mean that's true for people that have that perspective that that live this life. I mean, there's there's a bunch of bad Hunters out there that are just, you know, driving road signs and shooting things and leaving them lay. And I've got zero respect for those individuals, but the people are doing it for the right reasons to put food on their table to know where their food comes from to be a part of

that process. Those are oftentimes the most devout, you know conservationists and people out there fighting for animal rights welfare, because they appreciate that life. May, I think I think hunting is an amazing amazing way to get closer to animals. We just had a two cows. Crystal my wife, her brother was willing enough to raise two cows one for him. One for me, and we just went up there.

I went there two weeks ago and helped butcher the whole thing as first met ever done account before. Or and that was a I mean that was a freaking task right there, man. I never done account and it took us like 13 hours per cow. I started getting pretty good throw by the end of it. I was like, hacking off these rib eye steaks and they're looking like rib eye.

Steaks were supposed to look. But but just simply being a part of that whole process and know him the exact cut for how to make a New York strip, how to make a rib. I had a had a, you know, cut off around the shoulder for a cow and be able to see understand, you know, how that cut was made in a butcher shop and then what went on behind the scenes? I mean, It's that's invaluable information there. That's a huge undertaking. You can to full cows.

Yeah, to full Cows, as bad as about 13 hours for the first day. We got the 1/1 count on the first day, took us about 13 hours. And then by the end of that, the second day, we were much more efficient with the second cow, but it was no joke, man, like it was, it was cool to like, we bought some books like How to put your account books and I went through is like, oh, you know, picture perfect and everything. I was learning how to do all these cuts and make everything.

NG. But I've done so many dear, so I never really bad and I'm about doing dear. But the cow with that was that was a much bigger undertaking, for sure. It probably made you a better deal breaker. Well, imagine. Yeah, but I mean, I think that they just, it makes me appreciate everything so much more.

Like when I went to a butcher shop here locally, once I got back in town, you know, I'm looking all across their their shelf, and I'm seeing all these different cuts of steaks and I now know how to cut that specific steak. You just gained so much more perspective and appreciation for the foods. You're buying and eating. Yeah, and that's exactly what I was referring to. There is something incredibly valuable to being able to hunt

on a regular basis. Fish on a regular basis, put your animals on a regular basis and it's amazing, but for so many people that's Out Of Reach and I completely understand why. But even an experience like that, you know, I think that cow or being around a pig, which is a little bit more manageable even in Somebody's house or even if it's a chicken, if that's the best you have access to, you still get gained a lot of the that appreciation that respect that, that understanding of that

responsibility. And the other thing is not only is it, is it more nourishing. Is it more ethical and more sustainable financially. It makes Incredible sense. And, you know, we we can get a half a pig here, a half of a local Pig for about $40 and a half of a good-sized pig. And that gives me two hams to have a big in a small. I use those different sides of the leg. It gives me a whole bunch of bacon. I get a bunch of meat for sausage. We cure some of it. We have, we rendered lard.

We make bone broth it. We make head cheese and that's an incredible amount of food for $130 and about a half a day's work and obviously pigs a lot smaller.

So that's more than a cow. But even if you think about it with the chicken, you bring it, I was just doing some work yesterday and it was saying the average price of a chicken breast is three dollars and twenty something cents a pound and the average around the country and the average price of a whole chicken is a dollar, twenty something a pound.

Wow, and I understand that, some of that weight is certainly in Bones, not a ton of it, but but in Balance, but every bit of that chicken, Is in, you know, entirely edible, and nutritious. And I would, I would say more nutritious than the chicken

breast. I mean, you got the breast, you got the thighs, you got the wing that you got, the skin, got the livers, the hearts, the neck, and then you, then, then you're left with the bones to make bone broth from and it just makes it just makes sense all the way around. And then you throw that financial piece, you know, sort of, to kind of close the loop on all of it. 100% one thing. I've always appreciated about you.

Like, I've been following you on social for a while now, and you Oftentimes bring your whole family in there. You'll make the sourdough bread together. You do all the butcher in together, you make like these. These like, it looks like you've got a big pizza stone. We're set up for bacon pizzas. I mean it you have everything set up like you would expect to be set up, you know back in the Renaissance times or something homesteading asking nature.

And I feel like, you know, that that's something that I've always appreciated and always tried to go back to myself and I feel like the more especially now with all the craziness in the Like the past two years, especially the more I see, all

this chaos abound, the more. I just want to return to like this homesteading type philosophy where I've got my close-knit group of people, and we have like this bartering system in which, you know, they got some, some great green beans in their Garden. It but I've got a great chicken and we'll just swap that out and live happily ever after.

And that's not realistic for a lot of people in this current day and age, but I feel like doing anything you can to kind of return towards that lifestyle in some form or fashion is going to be out of contagious. Yeah, 100% in it and it gives you. And this is where I think it's incredibly valuable. Not only do those experiences, those things you just mentioned or some of my favorite memories, you know, cooking with my family and and hunting and butchering and forging whatever we're doing.

Those are some of my most incredible memories and I'm hope I hope they are for my kids as well. But that beyond that, it really and I don't think they realize it at this time, but it really We makes you look at the world and your place in it through a completely different set of eyes and everything from how you shop at the grocery store, to where

you shop to how you deal. With other people, what you see, all of those things are lessons that are just kind of subconsciously being learned through all of those, all those sorts of activities. And I will say one thing that has happened since the last time we spoke. And I think some of the pictures that you might prefer to, or happening there, my wife, and I actually took a huge leap. Bleep about a year ago. She left her position as a director of special ed a nearby County school system.

And I left Washington College and we launched what were the modern Stone Age kitchen, which is actually where we teach tens of classes, in-person and virtual, but also, we are producing food in line with everything that we read about, in the book, everything that you and I have talked about on this podcast and it's right there in the heart of Chester. Then I'm pretty confident that a lot of the pictures you're talking about. Have happened in there.

And it's a great playing. A lot of the people. I'm very lucky because I've had the opportunity to we built a wood fired oven in the backyard. My father took me hunting. Let him pass on to my kids and and, and we cook from scratch. And, you know, we have really good access to raw materials and information all these sorts of things. But what I wanted to do was offer that same sort of opportunity to the community, and that's what we've been able to do there. That's awesome.

And I mean, you're paying it forward in ways, you don't even realize yet. I mean, the, the lines you're in painting. For those kids that would never in a million years have that opportunity. Otherwise, I mean that that's pretty powerful stuff right there, minute tip my hat to you for them. Well, thanks so much. It's incredibly rewarding, it can pay that. Well, I'm super excited for everything. You've got cooking. I guess, literally, and figuratively.

But with regard to, what you got in the pipeline from a professional standpoint, you've got the book that was published in November, correct? Yep. Just came out in November and it's launching in other places of the world, actually this month. Weeks, awesome. Well, I'm gonna get a copy. I'm going to read that. And I'm going to take part in what it's saying, because I think we're on the same wavelength. Therefore sure. What else is 2022? Going to? Hopefully many anything else coming.

Well, we got a lot going on. So at the monastery kitchen, we're launching more and more products every week that we all hardly believe in. So, we're doing a whole line of bone broth and fermented Butters and peppe's and tons of tons of different things. That what I love is, we've been able to make this book, Book come alive. We're able to provide all the book, all the foods. And the processes that we write about in this book.

We're providing not only the food there, but also the workshops of the and the tools, literally the tools to make those Foods in your own home right there. But something, I'm super excited about is, we've had a tremendous response to the book and a lot of people asking for more and we're launching February first, two months in pensive.

Virtual class. We actually go through this book chapter by chapter every single week and we do a whole bunch of have a whole bunch of behind-the-scenes stories. There's a lot of this book is actually a journey around the world and through time and there's a ton of different people that you meet in this book in the pages of this book.

And we're going to have special guests on here from all over the world, from Italy to Africa, to all over on these on these classes and then every single one of them will end with cooking. Most was this book has 75 recipes in it. It's a practical book. How to take these lessons and actually do them and make use of

them in your own home kitchen. And they're going to, we're going to go through them many of those recipes, and have demos, and classes, and questions, and answers, and all that. And that Launches on, on February 1st, and we will. And there's information on are on my website, eat like a human.com about that. Is that going to be something?

That is kind of like, Evergreen. Like you can even after you start people can can Jump onto and then have access to the recordings or is this something like a one-time thing? You got to be a part of the class real-time know you could jump in. At any time you can jump in anytime and then you, there's ways have access to the classes that you've missed as well. Sure. Nice. I'm at the check that out for sure, man. This then that sounds pretty awesome. So we got on top of that.

We've got a certainly our work around the world has been greatly impacted by koban. But we're planting a few seeds right now. That'll hopefully, hopefully grow into full blown research opportunities and Northern Scandinavia and in Mexico and hopefully back in Africa as the year goes on, very cool. Very cool. I will keep following the journey because like I said, I've been following you for a while and everything you post and it's just awesome. Awesome stuff.

I'm learning. Something every time I go to your page, have you put on a bunch of stuff on YouTube? I haven't checked out YouTube. Are you are you putting like demos out there? No, we're actually going to start doing that as well. This year. You know, we have a there's a lot of there's so many things that I'm in. Both of us are incredibly passionate about it and it's hard to pick and choose where you put energies because there's so much work to be done.

I one of the things that I'm really focusing on now is this this nose-to-tail whole animal approach to To butchering and cooking and eating. And we're going to start making a whole bunch of videos on really accessible ways to do that in our kitchens make those available in places like YouTube for sure. Nice. See, I thought about doing that same thing, but it's weird man. Like with YouTube. There's so much censorship over things that you would not think would need to be censored.

Like, I've thought about doing like a how-to video on how to, you know, process and butcher. A deer from start to finish and I've had things like that flagged in the past. It's so it's like, I want to dive super deep into that but it's like the societal powers that be don't want you to. I know. And then we're looking and it might not be YouTube. We're looking for the right platform. It might be Vimeo.

I'm not entirely sure because there's so much I know for me growing up. I my dad taught me how to hunt my dad, taught me how to butcher, and he did a fantastic job and there's put their stings, some things that I didn't know then about how to how to field dress a deer properly. If you're a You going to save the liver if you're actually going to use the intestines for casings for sausage and and and save the caul fat in those sorts

of things that I just wish. I had a YouTube like video to teach me and it's such a, such a great platform, but it needs to not be censored or we have to find the right platform to do it for sure. Yeah. Well, whatever you find platform was. I'll be I'll be subscribed and following without a doubt man. Love what you doing back and likewise. Thank you so much. One more time, where do people go to? What's the website again?

Okay. So my website is eat like a human.com, which is also the name of the book and you can find information on the book. My blog is their classes virtual classes in person classes and then modern Stone Age. Kitchen.com is our storefront and where you can find information about the foods that were producing and some of the in-person classes there as well. Awesome. Well, I most certainly linked into all of those. Keep doing. What you doing, man.

I love the work. I appreciate the message you're sending and definitely keep in touch. I think we're both speaking at a few conferences this year. So I'm looking forward to seeing you in person again. Oh, you want to keep it calm? Yeah. Yeah, I'll be speaking of Quito con and you're speaking there as well, right? Absolutely, man. I look forward to meeting you in person. It'll be great man. Will have to share a big old, ribeye steak dinner, or something. I look forward to. It.

Sounds great. Take care, until next time. All right. Sounds good. Fuck you soon.