Well, hello there ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto Savage.com. And today I have special guest, dr. Shaun Baker on, for take to we've recorded shoot. It was a long time ago, probably two and a half three years ago and we see each other conferences were always communicating. It's like shoot. Let's do another follow-up podcast. So that's what we did. We talked about his training, he's doing like higher fat protocol now. We so we dive into that.
We talked about the fact that he's been strict, Carnival for the past three and a half years without needing to introduce any, you know, vegetation area. That that. So we talked about metabolic flexibility, we talked about all kinds of things. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. I trust, you will as well, sit back, relax, and enjoy and we'll add duct Schambach. How are you sir? I am doing well. Robert, thanks for having me, you bet, man.
You bet, the last time I had you on was shoot long time ago, I think If I had to have years ago or so maybe three years ago, yeah it was a while back. I think I had you on the week after you were on Rogan's and that was I think probably the highest my podcast downloads ever spiked in a that window because you're just on Rogan's and everybody heard about this crazy carnivore dinosaur arms and they were just I guess Googling for your name then you popped up on mine.
But yeah man a lots happened since then yeah it's been. It's been a fun. Couple years. Yes. And there's definitely been a lot to a lot of growth in this. Little creep because you will Community. Yeah, I really want to dive into that because I feel like most good. Yeah. Yeah, I want I want to dive into that because I feel like there's just so much that's, you know, transcended since then so much you've learned because you've been strict carnivore that entire time that, right?
Three and a half years. Yeah, three and a half years, it would sell yell like trying to say I'd 2016. And a 2016 was when I started. So I'm you know, closer to I guess I'm actually getting close to four years and three and a half. So yeah, it's been a while. What do you cause you're doing? You're doing kind of a higher fat protocol right now, right? Right. Now you have this, got off of a wiener, a very a relatively clean version of it and I'm not playing with iPad.
I'm just, you know, playing around. I've been doing it for so long. It's kind of fun to experiment a little bit. So I'm trying to get 80% of my calories from fat, but that's pretty hard to do. Got to be honest with you. I mean, it's, you know, particularly, you know, when your limit limit what to use for fats and I have successfully managed.
To do about 70 percent for sure. And and many days I'm hitting 80 percent which is a pretty decent amount of fat in particularly, when you're eating a decent amount of protein, as well. It kind of gets to where you're really up there to get the not fat. Yeah, I feel like, if you're just doing, like a pretty strict straightforward carnivore, you can hit 70 percent, pretty effortlessly.
But when you start going beyond that, that's when you kind of have to flirt the line of do, you allow fatty coffees, do you allow stuff like that? The to bump up that number little? Yep, that's right.
Yeah. So what I'm doing like I said I'm doing a lot of eggs you know what I find eggs to be a pretty good lever, you know, for being able to cause like you know, I can I can steer towards more egg yolks which obviously were the fat is you can kind of change that ratio pretty easily and then I kind of make a little egg dish.
I mix it with. I was mixing with Tallow and you know kind of blending it up. Like I took some boiled eggs throat with a bunch of Tallow and you can dial it as much fat as you want that way and then I'll put some little bit of flavor in there. It's usually like a cinnamon and a little vanilla. It's kind of turns into a little pudding which actually sounds disgusting, but it's actually pretty decent. It's actually not bad at all. Yeah, the egg. I mean eggs are freaking
versatile, man. You can make just about anything with eggs. Yep. You getting just incredibly lean over the past and it seems like, like, past couple months. I noticed you just getting continually leaner and leaner. What are you doing there?
Well, I mean, what I did initially to get lean is I went and ate leaner cuts of meat and and that I've that cycle basically, what I was doing was You know, anywhere between three to five days of pretty lean cuts of meat and then I would throw in a relatively fat-filled a on, you know, in between one day of that and I find it, you know, going any longer than that lane you can you just it's just miserable. So I mean I got to where I was like, you know, I found like I
found a pretty good mix. I get to where we just got a little uncomfortable and I throw the fat back in and that, that seemed to help. I mean, clearly fat is important and it's important for society's important for functions. For, you know, making sure you don't crash your know, you crash your metabolism. So to speak, you know, when you go, when you go to what I wasn't, really low calorie. At any time, I was still probably 3,000 plus calories a day at the minimum. You know what?
I'm still there. And so now that I got to this lean point, I'm trying to maintain a reasonably lean with, with a higher fat approach in higher fat approaches, so much more pleasant. I'll totally say it's like, you can just kind of eat to satiety and you're not hungry at all.
All the other, you know, with the lean stuff I was you know I was hungry and thinking about food, try to make things that would you know, like I was eating a lot of ice, you know, flavored ice just kind of fill out that, you know, trying to
try these satiety. Accessed, you know, fill my belly up with volume so I didn't, you know, didn't feel like I was hungry and, you know, we see that particularly in the evening, when grilling tends to Peak, you know, our satiety hormone ghrelin tends to go up and so, you know, try to get those evening hours, you know, and not. Not be hungry. It was a little bit of challenge but now I managed to do that and I didn't really see any
difference in performance. I mean I mean as far as my ability to train I was able to train hard train. Well, it was just just being a little bit more hungry and you know as most of us don't like to be hungry.
But like to be, you know, satiated and I have to say with the high-fat approach I think I can get by with potentially the same or even less calories, you know, just because I feel a little better say, Dated so are you, are you tracking calorie tracking these macro you just doing it kind of more based off of, you know, intuitive eating well. I mean, I am. I am intentionally at this point. Yeah. Cuz I'm not bodybuilding. I don't really have any real sort of, you know, discrete goals.
I got to hit, I'm, you know, I'm to making a conscious effort to, you know, up the fat but not not counting things. I mean, well, I would say that I'm in the back online, making sure I get enough protein so I can Ball. I'm not down to the ground because you know, even if I was at still be off him, can't be on a person, a critique of the can't, you know, every kind of meats can have a different amount and what's printed on the label.
And so, I mean, I generally know how much I'm eating relative to what I was eating before, I think I'd do it kind of a rough way, but I'm not sitting away in food and, you know, plugging in things in a calculator, I'm just like, you know, I make relative changes. I mean, my dad doesn't really change much ate the same damn thing almost every single Day at
the same time. So per easy to make a change, just like okay well I just you know I'll just cut back a little bit of this tomorrow and and then see how things go. So when you notice the an increase in society with the fattier cuts, do you think you were equating calories? Do you think are just consuming more calories overall with the fattier cuts and that's probably what led to your Society.
I think it's I think it's the fat itself quite honestly, I think I think with leaner and leaner Meats, I can eat more and you my appetite has is higher and as we know, the protein does have a little bit of a thermic effect. So you can kind of get away with a little more protein, you know, any little bit more calories, I think, you know, because the energy, you know, I got to get energy from somewhere.
And, you know, once you get down to a certain level of body fat, you don't have that much on your body to to run the system. I think, I mean, you know, obviously you Never run out of fat or you die. I mean, there's even a even at, you know, 78 percent body fat, you still have fat on your body that you can consume, but I think it's just a little more challenging and so you have to you know, provide a dietary fat, is it just it just does seem to have that say shading with it.
I mean I sit here right now, you know, having had a rib eye and what I have nine eggs and Rib, I actually had 15 eggs in a row by just a little bit of while ago, which is, you know, it's a decent. Out of calories, you know? That's, you know, that's probably we're looking at. Is what is that? Oh, I'm some extra fats. I probably had that. That's probably a those probably a 2000 calorie meal for me, which is not not a big meal. I mean, that's so my routine to do that.
May be my only major meal that I might have one more snack later today. So I'll probably come in at, you know, 3,000 calories today, maybe 2600 calories today and be completely satisfied satiated. Whereas on the Higher protein version. I was probably routine, leading 35, to 44 thousand calories, that way. So, we look like 4 pounds of meat a day, maybe a little more. Have you noticed any change like in just cognitive function mental Clarity, like, with the higher proteins, for me?
Personally, you know, I get a protein, I don't Advocate low protein, but if I'm doing just an excessive amount of protein, I feel like less mentally sharp. I just feel I'm in my blood glucose Trends her. I just don't feel as, you know, on On top of things. Yeah, I mean, I think that's fair to say II. Don't, it wasn't like, dramatic wasn't like, I was a dummy walking around with high protein and saying, but I mean, I do feel, I think calmer and more
stable. You know what, I do agree with you with the protein trending upward Lee, you know, with really high levels of protein. I think, you know, turbo gluconeogenesis are some really interesting literature on that where it's kind of debatable as to how much of that protein we turn into glucose, I think it A little bit on person and, you know, the situation and I think the difference is gone with people that have kind of diabetic pathophysiology versus
healthy people. So there's some interesting stuff with regard to that. Totally it's cool for me to see you do this. Because I mean I've always kind of advocated, you know, a higher fat ratio protocol of ketogenic diet in in regards to losing body fat and kind of getting dialed in and I've always just been crucified for like people come after After me and saying, hey, you gotta eat, less dietary fat, if you want to tap into your stored body fat and lose
weight. And I've routinely been able to get, you know, sub five percent while maintaining north of a 75 or 80% fat ratio. So it's cool to see other people, you know, like yourself doing the same thing and you know excelling at it. Yeah. I think Rob, I think the key is still going to be caloric intake. I mean, I think, you know, if you can still you can eat in a deficit on a high fat approach. And I think that's the, that's the whole point of that.
And I think, And it's going to interesting because some people, you know, obviously as a bodybuilder, you got to have a certain amount of depth discipline, but I think just eating higher fat doesn't necessarily mean, you're going to gain team, but game game body fat. You know what if eating high fat allows for high level of satiety and you in allows you to eat in the deficit, then certainly you can lean on and provide as you have enough protein in there.
And you know, we kind of talk about what's enough protein. You know, you doing a training, you're going to maintain that muscle mass. And you're going to just silly like that. Yeah, but eating fat nor is he said, it's only when you did easily success, excessive cork assesses, whether it's fats or carbs. Is, when you start to put on body fat and when you see all these sort of negative things, I mean, you can do it. You can come, you can eat over you protein.
You can read any macronutrient. But I mean, certainly fat carbs. Your needs your wants to do a proteins, a little harder. But yeah, absolutely. I think that's, and that's fun during these experiments. I mean, clearly immuno, everybody bill on the planet goes, low, low calorie. I mean low fat low. I mean, they basically low carb and low fat. And higher protein and that's been a traditional method. But I think you, you know, like I said, from a satiety and hormonal standpoint.
I mean, when you're my assumption is, when you get pretty lean, you know, you're not as miserable as it guys. Are getting pretty lean on a low, low fat approach. 100% agree. I mean like we need, I mean, people have been getting lean with high protein and carbs and very minimal fat for years and years years. I've never argue that that's possible. It's been proven but it's all about how you feeling.
ERM in that deficit, and I've always argued that, if you're deeply key to adapt, then you have a higher fat ratio, your hormones. You can be more stable, your moods going to be more stable and it just makes it much more sustainable and enjoyable, because in the grand scheme of things, you're not really in that deep of a deficit for very long. So the more you can optimize how you feeling performed during that deficit, it's just going to
be better for in a long run. Yeah, I mean no words, no one wants to feel miserable. You know, you hear all these Horror Stories of the bodybuilders are just like they're on stage and there. They litigate about collapsing, as they come off, and they have some of that has to do with dehydration. And obviously, there's a lot of, you know, depending on which organizations a lot of drug usage, in diuretic usage, and all that sort of stuff. And you know again I'm not a bodybuilder.
I've never been but I've been around enough lifting stuff for years to know what generally goes on. I'm sure you're more tuned into that. Even I am. But, you know, I'm just You know, I'm just I guess protein is a one thing that I wandering where you find you know you know what your protein intake needs to be you know, throughout your training Cycles. Yeah. Protein is tricky because it's a
little different for everyone. I don't I don't ever recommend a set you know protein a lot of people say take your lean mass and you know do like one gram of protein per pound of lean mass
or something like that. There's all kinds of equations on the internet and just keep that constant and Then either manipulate Pro or carbs or fat, depending on what you're doing, but I've had the most luck with, you know, kind of titrating protein up initially, and taking advantage of that higher, thermic, effect of food figuring out what your body responds best to. And then as you figure out what that threshold is gradually taking that down still within,
you know reasonable level you don't have one just a chronically low in protein but they're at the very end. I go pretty low because it ramps up my love. I mean it ramps up my Ketone production. So Tones are very anti catabolic so I can be in a more anti catabolic state, right there, the tail end of my prep, but then as soon as that preps over and I'm going into reverse diet, I go ahead and bump it up back to at least, you know, 121 of
lean mass ratio. Yeah, I think that's probably pretty reasonable strategy, you know? Because you decide, oh, you did a quote-unquote kind of a contest prep and then the crep got, I mean, the contest got kibosh, because The coronavirus and so you're now reverse dieting, are you, you know what, how low of calories did you get, you know, when you got down there and then in your backup around, I think I saw 4,000 calories a day now.
Yeah, so I got as low as about 1850 but then I was doing refeeds at that point and, you know, keto refeed. So I was averaging about 2,100 calories at the lowest and then now I just finished my reverse. that I'm 12 weeks in my reverse that and I'm averaging about 4,500 to four thousand seven hundred calories a day now, Yeah, it's a decent amount of food. I mean No One's Gonna complain about that and you know I assume you're still race or maintain a reasonable level of body fat. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean my offseason weights are my offseason body fat percentage is probably around around 10% to 12%. The high-end you know, between 10 and 12 percent. I thought that's a super sustainable healthy body fat. I'm not, you know, I can still see abs and Feathering in my quads, but I'm not so lean. And in a deficit, I can't really optimized for building muscle, but I'm also not so heavy. That I have no cardiovascular strength. Yeah yeah.
But shoot man, you getting pretty shredded anyhow. Also Instagram pictures either day and you may have to rethink this whole body building, think probably step on stage, and do some damage. No, I mean, I got I got such a funky physique. I mean, I got my got 39 inch sleeves, I got Monkey Grill arms and I don't have any symmetry proportion, you know? I just don't have that. It's have never been never been built for bodybuilding but we you look damn good man. How do you know?
Oh, so it's okay being. Yeah. It's kind of fun being I'm 53. So I mean it's you know it's you know I mean for my age I think I'm doing pretty well, you know, it's kind of funny. It's funny. All the it's kind of like it's kind of funny because I get all these people accusing me of you know, testosterone and rid other
steroids and stuff like that. I've never, you know, I've just never done that stuff my whole life and so it's kind of you know, the assumption is you know, you can't be you know a certain age and have it halfway decent physique. I mean it's like you can't do without drugs. I'm like you know, I'm here to say absolutely you can You know what I think eating or eating a good diet and you know, I know you know whether it's keto or carnivore, you know?
My my opinion getting high-quality protein animal Source protein. I know you certainly don't disagree with where you protein comes from, you know, I mean, it's, you know, meat is a big part of that. I think it makes it pretty much. Makes it a lot easier. That's for sure. 100%. I get so I mean, I compete in the natural federation's, so I'm constantly butting heads. Of people that are advocating for, you know, trt and just all
the drugs. So it's refreshing to hear someone that's advocating for just optimizing your nutrition first and foremost because I truly do think you get your nutrition diet in you train, intensely? Then I mean, that's that's the Fountain of Youth, right there and you're proving that point day and down.
Well, I know it absolutely is and this is a thing, you know, people, they're so used to taking the shortcut in the easy way out that they're just You know, they don't, they can't believe that you can do it without the, without the dress.
But we've kind of, you know, I mean, people forget what happened, you know, 50, 50, 60, 70 years ago when guys were strong and, you know, that that doing the stuff, you know, and it's definitely achievable have you ever gotten like, just a, like Baseline hormone panels done? Just see where you're at. Now, not resend. I did, we know I didn't want to know this, and this is a thing I did one test. Right?
After training real hard, my testosterone to actually test it out low and you know, So people are like well you know you're whatever you're like a grandma here, like an old grandma because you have low testosterone and I'm like, look, I've got no clinical evidence of that whatsoever, you know, it's like I'm obviously Wayne strong, you know, you know and everything, sexual function works just perfectly fine, I'll tell you so II, but I don't really not been really
interested in that because I'm like, what am I going to do about it? It, you know and again I think you need to have Clinic clinical reason to pursue that you know and it's like if I were, you know, couldn't lose body fat and was tired all the time and sluggish and mentally slow. And you know, some of the things that are clinically relevant to low testosterone, then I would be more interested but I'm not.
So there's not a real exciting reason for me to for me to do that and just to chase to chase lab numbers just for the sake of chasing lab numbers. Without any Any clinical difference is, I mean, to me, it's kind of a pointless to ask those people say, well, you'd be a lot bigger if you're on steroids testosterone, I said, yeah, it's probably true. But, I mean, I'm already, you know, you know, if I look at other 53 year olds, I'm relatively doing quite well,
compared to those guys. So, I'm not really concerned about, yeah. I'd say you're doing something right? For sure. I, I got my Baseline tested before I did my prep and then at the end, it just to see how much going through a prep and, you know, having that strain of the body would do. And I think I think I dropped like 300 points, total
testosterone. But then, as soon as you start bringing the calories, back up that recovers as well, it's just kind of nature of the Beast with the sport of bodybuilding going into a deficit. But if you do it naturally, I mean you can maintain pretty healthy levels throughout. Yeah. I mean it's it's something that, you know, I mean, people that don't really know.
I mean, there's obviously there's a lot of nuance and of these numbers and it's, you know, it's how much is free and I'm just bound and it's time of day, it changes and it and, you know, training can Fact, if you had a hard workout, you can knock down, you know, if you have a poor night's sleep, you can knock it down. So so many variables that go into that. And so I'm like, you know, what
does it even mean? Like I said I, you know, it's I really look at clinical function and I think one of the problems we have is so many people are metabolically unhealthy and sick, you know, they've got this metabolic syndrome, they have, this would be City, and they feel like garbage and it's due
to that. And then, you know, the doctor might Screening for low testosterone, they put them on testosterone but really they should be doing is just fixing their health and our lifestyle and spending a year, you know, really aggressively pursuing that but no one does that. I mean, it's easier just to write a prescription. Send them out the door and the people are happy.
And then there's people that go in there and, you know, they intentionally tank their testosterone, you know, they just so they can pass a test so I can get on the stuff and say, it's prescribed and it's well, you know, in the bodybuilding Community. It's People say I'm just on testosterone and it's probably a drug. I'm like, no BS. It is a drug. Yeah. And you know, you know, you're taking it, you know, like these guys are, you know, obviously stronger than 99.9% of the population.
You know, they're more muscular saying they were there, they needed to maintain their their strength and it's not. I mean, it just call it for what it is. It's a drug and it's helping me achieve things I couldn't on my own, but to say that. It's some disease is wrong. Yeah, totally agree. It's that's a It's a sensitive subject for a lot of people, a lot of people, you know, are not honest with their using of it and abusing of it.
And I've always just said, you know, teach their own do whatever you want to do, but I take pride in the fact that I haven't gone that route to look for the shortcuts because I mean you're cutting yourself short in a lot of areas that people don't realize at the onset. Like it sounds really sexy on the front on the front end but they have no they pay no attention to the long term you know implications and then honestly just like what it do does to your mentality.
Like I can I can take pride in the fact that I'm, I'm not taking a shortcut and you start taking a shortcut with one thing in life and it just, it just starts bleeding into other aspects of your life and that's just something I don't want to start, you know. Yeah.
I mean I'm so mad. I mean I'm you know, like I said I've done this, I've competed in gosh, you know, strongman competitions powerlifting rugby, you know, track and feel Highland Games, you know, rowing all these Sports and I maintain a high level of work capacity, I've been healthy. Ever been injured, you know, to any significant degree. You know, I've never had like big ups and downs as far as strength and fitness goes. And I maintain it.
I mean, it's like, you know, I don't, I'm not dependent on some drugs to maintain my muscle mass. And I think that is, you know, nice thing, you know, having done this for. I mean, I've been training and out for 40. Yeah. 40 years now and it's like I said, I'm still going strong and still doing fine. Yeah, that's the main thing I want, I want to pick your brain about About this. It's funny because you know you and I both been the key to community for a long enough.
Now that we kind of see these Ebbs and flows and we see these new you know hot ticket items pop up and you know carnivore keto all these buzzwords. I feel like right now it's
metabolic flexible. That's what's in the sunshine right now is it's given the Halo and it's kind of had this weird effect them in that people feel their performance is automatically going to be you know, massive The improved if they can have this dual fuel between carbs and fat and you and I have both have maintained this pretty regimented strict. Like, we don't need the carbs. We just perform really well with
what we're doing. So I'm curious to kind of, get your take on that what you've noticed. And not really what you experiment with because you haven't really had the cars but you've clearly had. No. No adverse effects from not having the carbs? Yeah. I mean I think you know, as you and I both know that we still living still make look Cos we still have glucose in our system saw like we have non, we still have glycogen, and it's not like
we have none. And so this belief that you only burn fat on a ketogenic diet is obviously, are you only utilized fat on the ketogenic diet is obviously not grounded in science. I mean, there's people say I'm a fat burner, well, you're still a, you're still using glucose and even if you're on a low carb ingesting that you're still using fat for some, some, some amount of things.
And it's just a relative amount of the fuel you're using, you know, some you're always And some sort of blend between ketones free fatty acids and glucose for your energy needs. And, you know, those requirements can be up and down regulated by like pretending my particular cell types. But it doesn't mean you can't like when you hit Top Gear training wise when you're in a glycolytic and you know, a glycolytic producing or requiring exercise, you can
still do that. Particularly if you've been long-term adapted to this stuff and I didn't I never had any issues Issue. You know, I mean when I was breaking World Records on that concept to which was clearly a glycolytic activity, I had no issues whatsoever, you know?
I mean able to literally able to break the world record and so clearly without carbohydrates and then you know recently I started playing with some of the distance work and I'm able to put in, you know, an hour long session, you know I can row 12 miles, you know, on a rowing machine, you know, an hour and 20 With, with no carbohydrates. And so, I mean, I mean, you know it, what point do you say, you know, this is required.
I mean, we just, I just interviewed a guy dance Sorenson who's in, who's an NFL Super Bowl champ, he's on a car, we're not doing great. So the performance has never been better, so he's doing it without carbs. You know, we just, you know, another professional athlete a guy from the WWE, Eric guess he's a viking like And the same thing, all these ads come out and saying, hey look I feel wonderful without the carbohydrate midnight and my performance is not suffered at all.
Still there. Yeah, I lost you there for a second. Okay, sorry, sorry, yeah, no that's why I totally agree. I feel like, you know, there's there's so many instances that have people that are just keeping it super strict and they're not seeing any decline of performance whatsoever, I do think so much of it hinges on one's level of adaptation. I feel like a lot of people they have this skewed perception of what actual adaptation is.
They don't give it enough time or they're constantly eating more Trace carbs. They recognize. So they never really tap into their full potential with it and then they just assume that it's not for them and they're seeing
a decline in performance. They automatically go to what they are familiar with but I feel like if you actually get it dialed in an optimized there's there's zero zero drop in performance if anything your you know your information goes down your recoveries better so you can train more frequently. I mean I've only noticed an uptick personally.
Yeah, it's the same experience I had and I think that's the point here is, you know, and I played with, you know, over the years, I was on the ketogenic diet first for, you know, three years. I'm arguably on it now with we within the context of carnivore, but I played with targeted ketogenic diets and played with, you know, cyclic ketogenic diet, where you bring a cards in. And I really never noticed an improvement and only the only thing I saw it may be a function
my age. You know I just saw I just didn't feel it's good. I mean I got aches and pains I had Inflammation, when I added the chorus backhanded so it was just for me when I was like, going out to train if my knee was sore, I didn't really want to squat that much. But now when I trained, you know, I don't have those soreness and you know, pains in my recovery is just tremendous, which I think is, you know, allows me to train hard.
Every single time I walk into the gym and often every single day, without needing to take really any time off. Which is something that you know you here is, you know, always you get older, you need more. Every time you need to train less frequently and I've not found that to be true. For me, I can train hard every single day and I someone who enjoys try me. I really look forward to training. I mean, I think about it, you know, the night before. A lot of what?
I, what I'm doing right now, I'm doing because I'm not competing anything currently. So it's mostly just fun and kind of intuitive stuff and kind of making sure I check certain amount of boxes every week, and I just feel so good. All the time that my training in, Ultimately performance is a reflection on that. Yes, picking a training. Where do you train a? See these stories on your Instagram and looks like you're in horse stalls or something. Get the 70s rock and roll blaring.
You're in a horse taller. What's going on there? Yeah. So the house we bought last year was on a kind of an equestrian property across your neighborhood. So the people for us, well I mean I guess two owners ago, had some horse horse stalls and a little horse turnout which looks like a like called the Derp it, because it's like a little enclosed area around circle area. It's just dirt. And so for me, I'm just like old school. I don't mind the dirt and the grime, and the hard work.
And so I just kind of run around and do stuff out there and get out in the sunshine and then my power rack and some of the other stuff, you know, like it is in the in what used to be the horse stall on. So I'm kind of a big animal anyway so it works. I love it man. I love it. I've got to it's kind of crazy
because this whole covid thing. Shut all the gyms down, everybody's just Been running around not having a clue what to do. And I feel super fortunate because I've got the compound here, the keto Brick Warehouse, and I got my own Little Gym set up, but it's all just the basics like dumbbells, barbells, I mean, pretty rudimentary stuff. And I feel like when you just double down on that, you don't need all this fancy equipment that people are always, you know, striving to learn how to use.
Yeah. I mean yeah. I mean again outside of you know it depends on what your sport is. You know, if I was running the 100-meter hurdles it would be hard to do that here but I mean are 110 hurdles, I guess whatever that is. But I you know, for me, I mean I spent, you know, a decade putting together a gym and fine equipment and you know, all that stuff over the years. And so I've got a really good variety of stuff so I can train, you know, a lot of things, you
know. And sometimes you have to be a little bit creative but you can get 95% what you want done and then sometimes you know, like I you know you if you got bodybuilding specific things you can you might find a gym, has a few items that you can't replicate at home or it'd be very difficult to do. But having a nice facility at home is definitely a blessing because it's you know it's also a Time Saver because instead of having me jump in the car drive
2015, 20 minutes, you know, go to the gym and then some of the equipment may or may not be available because somebody else is using it and you know you know so it home You know, the hours are great. And, you know, the crowds are honest. It's hard to be. Does my girlfriend is in their training? Yeah, so it's pretty good. The only thing is, you know, you know, you missed a little bit of a social side in the motivation, says sometimes the young people around will motivate you a
little much. But I've been, I'm, I'm pretty internally driven. I think most people have been Lifting for a long time. Don't really need that external feedback. Most of us have kind of, it's in our mind. And you know, it's just it's part of who we are and, you know, and I imagine, you know, in 30 years from now I'll still be training as an 80 something-year-old and This will be training is a I don't know, 60 something-year-old or 50-something year-old.
You just keep going and never goes away. Yeah. And it becomes just part of the day for the routine. So what about like fasting and anything like that? Like you ever do any, you need extended fasting with Carnival, or are you keeping that pretty much just consistently in every single day? Yeah, I mean, I really, I mean, I do a fair bit of, you know, I guess you call intermittent fasting or you know, within a 24 hours. But again, that's mostly not really. By Design, it's just, I'm not
hungry and so I just eat. You know, I lot of days, I'll train fast in the morning. I might do to day workouts. Like today I'll do it today. So I often you know we'll have a maybe 14 to 16 hours you know between dinner and my first meal of the day pretty almost every day. That's pretty pretty common for me to do. You know, sometimes I'll do a one meal, a day type of thing. I didn't one 48 hours. Last one time, just out of curiosity and I didn't really find any great, you know, great
reason to do that. For me, I mean, I think it's, I think there are reasons for people to want to do that, particularly people, that have a lot of weight to lose, or are working on some kind of metabolic issues. There's probably more utility. I think for, athletes, particularly strength athletes, and people wanting to build and maintain muscle a lot of extended passing may not be the best thing. I mean, I know there's people that talk about growth, Hormone, you know, increasing.
But I mean it's the same time, you know, you need an mtor stimulation to for particular, one of the, you know, and this is one of the controversy around protein with mtor, stimulating protein, particularly leucine and to a lesser extent Arginine, people are worried about that. But again that's in the kind of fits in the context of weight training, that's completely appropriate because you want to maintain your muscle mass and so getting an adequate amount of protein on a generally on a
daily basis. I think Pretty important. Yeah, I totally agree. I think, you know, I'm not really a huge advocate, for fasting for the sake of fasting. I'm actually starting a fast today but I haven't passed it in over a year. I feel like it can be advantageous to do it. You no longer fast. Every so often just kind of wipe, the Slate clean and start fresh so to speak. But I see so many people just constantly jumping to, you know, a fast to lose a few pounds of
water weight. Only to regain it after they start eating again. And I feel like it kind of just creates this negative connotation around it. It can be again, it's a tool and like any tool that can be used inappropriately, you know, to use a hammer to screw in a
screw. It's not going to work and so it's like anything diet exercise are all tools in there that, you know, you can use them wisely and, you know, in a strategic and in a targeted and a tactical fashion, but the same time there's a lot of people would do it, you know, kind of an appropriately 100%. So would you be in strict carnivore now, 43. Half years for years. What is something that you have found to be true? Now, that wasn't necessary in line with your way of thinking.
When you first started, like, what have you learned to be like the biggest most profound advancement in your corner of our journey? So to speak because you're pretty much on The Cutting Edge of it. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, like I said, I think for most people, it seems to work pretty well. I think, for most people, you know, most of the advice that I've seen and kind of promoted has been generally pretty, pretty effective, but I do see people.
Where you can, you definitely, it's not an all-you-can-eat buffet, it's not a unlimited, you know, you're it's, you know, I've seen people gain weight, get fat, I've eaten more than I probably should have at times, you know? Just because, you know, some of its kind of ego and some of its, you know, not really eating Beyond satiety is is definitely doable. And, you know, you can get the -
I mean, just like any other die. And if you eat too much, you're going to, you're going to get maintain. Gain body fat and have some of the metabolic consequences of overeating. And so I think that's still possible do it's harder to do than some other diets. Although he has kind of interesting. There was a study, I guess it was a full study or Pilot was preprint Kevin Hall. Came out showing a plant-based diet versus a quote-unquote animal-based, ketogenic diet.
And so that the people on the, you know, the satiety was better from a caloric standpoint, I fight Robert Plant Big Tits again that probably has to do with perhaps the you know not very good palatability and not having other options available and you know being locked in a metabolic Ward. I mean those all things are potential reasons why that was occurring but I definitely think you can. You can overeat and I do think you can ovary fat.
I mean, this is the other thing, you know, people think that you know, just because you're eating a high fat percentage doesn't mean there's a there's no upper limit. To the amount of fat you can eat. It's and also, you know, things like Dairy fats.
I find to be problematic for many people that is to say it's harder for me to overindulge in, you know, sort of fat that comes on meet, you know, fatty meat versus you know, Dairy you know when they when you take Dairy and I'm you know, I particularly if you add a sweetener to it, you know, if you start making a, you know, a heavy cream with some Stevia in it or something like that, you know, you can just over Consume calories that way. So I think that's clear.
Yeah, it's interesting because I mean like you said earlier, there's no way to know with 100% degree of certainty, how many calories or how many macros are in any given thing you eat. But it's so blatantly obvious that the amount of calories you consume is going to have a pretty profound impact on your composition, whether that be for better or worse.
It's just, it's just funny because I feel like Carnival was given a Halo initially saying that, You cannot overeat me, you'll never gain fat, which just does not make any sense whatsoever. But it's nice to see people, maintain a strict, carnivore, diet, and gain fat to prove those people wrong. So that people just more aware of how important calories are. Yeah, I mean, I've never been in
the calories on matter cam. I think, I think and I do think that there's, you know, it's not only carries either. I mean, I think, you know, everybody talks about, everybody talks about calories. You know, the people that are it's all about calories will. Concede the protein, you know, protein has a different Metabolic Effect, instead of you're going to make that concession, then you have to say, wait a minute, you know, there's a thermic effect.
There's you know, there's adaptive thermogenesis, there's heat production that are dependent on a macro nutrient composition and then maybe even some degree to the micro nutrient composition. And so we have different absorption rates of food. You know, we have, you know, a whole bunch of things that go into. Just behind what's on your plate and what actually gets absorbed and what actually gets done to it in the body. And so, but at the end of the day, you know, if we look at the
big picture, sure. You know, you can't overeat calories on any diet doesn't matter, you know, Nikita did genic diet on a car, were diet on any, any diet there is and so I, you know, I said that all on from beginning, I will say it's harder to eat more. Eat to the point where you're gaining body fat on some diets versus another other diets. And then, you know, there's, you know, there's, you know, outside of gain weight, there's a health component.
And, you know, just eating a diet of, you know, If It Fits your Macros junk food is not a healthy diet. And there's, you know, there's people that's for some somehow misled to believe that. I mean, I don't think the major proponents of the, If It Fits your Macros or telling people to go out and eat and eat, you know, junk. But there's put some people interpret that way. I can eat whatever I want. Just you know maybe I'm anyway, protein. Twinkies.
Yeah you know and and you know they're going to they're going to somehow think they're going to have a good health and good body composition which I think is you know maybe one of those youkai mean you might be able to you might be still able to have decent body composition, but you're not going to have a
long-term. Good health with that, 100% agree, I mean it all matters like calories hormones, you know, metabolic function I mean it all it all adds to the end result and I do think that there is kind of an upper calor threshold. So like calories, not created equal. If you're doing a predominantly carbohydrate-based, you know, food versus predominantly high quality nutrient, dense protein animal sources.
I feel like you can probably get away with a little bit more calories without the adverse effects, you know, like a predominantly carnivore. Keto approach. That's just what I've personally found. You know, having eaten a bunch of carbs in the past versus what I'm doing now, but it definitely all has an effect on the whole, it's interesting. It's interesting.
What about you know kind of seeing how things have progressed over the years and as more information and scientific literature has come out about the efficacy of carnivore. Have you noticed any less pushback from the vegan Community or is that just gone rampant? I don't think there's been any. Well, it's a loaded question is pretty constant, just they just kind of It kind of, you know, they just wrote. There's like, there's like The
champion is going to complain. There's a new ones to complain about it. And I think the interesting thing is, you know, with the vegans, a lot of them to stop being, but you can since someone's been vocal for a year, they a lot of them end up following me and say thank you, he changed my mind. And the hell no longer be considered but they're always replaced by somebody new.
It's going to come out there and proselytize and try to save the planet with their with their misinformation or misguided notice. I do think, you know, more and more people in general are starting to recognize that, you know, meat is not evil and I meet State can be can be very beneficial Health, including many Physicians. You know, we have this metarex platform. We've got almost 150 Physicians on that platform that are all proponents or you know, at least accepting of meat based diets
potentially helpful. So we are making, you know, we're definitely making a change particularly within the low-carb space. You know, we're, you know, people have already sort of sort of already signed off on the I don't necessarily line up with the mainstream or the perv Like prevailing nutritional Dogma. So we've already made huge,
inroads, and that community. And so it continues to evolve as we're seeing like I said, you know, guys like Joe Rogan doing it and saying, hey, I felt really good and that that opens people's eyes and now we got more and more, you know, high-level professional athletes that are doing it. So I think we're just going to continue to see further and further acceptance for some people.
Some people you know people are ideologically opposed to eating meat or never going to you know, accept it as a As an option, they're going to fight tooth and nail for that because it's against what they believe is their kind of almost with a little religious like forever. But you know what I mean? You know, we've got a study coming out and Harvard University. That's setting 3,000-plus carnivore. Dieters will come out later this year. I'm assuming and that's going to
have an impact. So I, you know I think we're here to stay and I think it's going to be a tool that you know, many people utilize for their health. And this is, you know again This is not anything new. This has been doing it at this is every 20 years or so. It's come out, you know, these carnivore type diets. You know, in my book I talk about the people that came before me, that promoted basically the same thing and they all had the same results, everybody got healthier, or many
people got healthier. And so, I think, you know, with the internet with social media, the exposure potential is this extremely high and that's going to be a, I think, I think that's really the France between now and you know, 50 years ago. When Blake Donelson wrote his book, you know, strong medicine or what you do when Adkins came out in the 70s or some of these other things and you know, even the keto and obviously carnivore fits nicely within the keto Community.
A lot of people use Keo as a kind of a transition point, to go to carnivore and some people go carnivore. And then they go back to you know kind of meat based keto or Meto or keto carnivore. Carnivore keto or whatever. There's a little hybrid thing going on there but I think m just in general been more accepted in the certainly in the low carb Community as a vital role. And so now we have people that are kind of helping to defend it because it's obviously under attack.
Yeah. And I think a lot of, you know, the social media and Jeanette as a whole has kind of made this you know, push towards regenerative agriculture and and all the more sustainable, you know, positive ways to produce meat at scale as has grown in popularity to so people can look at Consuming meat in a in a better light than just imagining a bunch of feedlot cattle sitting there, you know, just
ready to be butchered. I mean, I think that is definitely a step in the right direction to because people can just see that, you know, it doesn't have to be this black and white. There's, there's there's positive. There's right ways to do this and this can be a good thing for the environment and the animals
that are involved with them. Yeah, I mean, that's wonderful point, you know, and the thing is, you know, when we listen to the folks, Or plant-based Advocates, they'll say, you know, well, you know, even if regenerative agriculture is good, we can't do it, we can't feed people. It's not sustainable, there's not enough land. Well, that's turning out to be not the case is turning out that yes, there is enough land and yes, it is scalable.
And yes, we can feed everybody as more and more people do it and they demonstrate that and they show that their land is, you know, three hundred percent five hundred percent eight hundred percent more productive than it was using standard, you know, commercial, Industry, you know, ranching techniques, you know, as they get into these, you know, adaptive multi Paddock grazing operation. It was stacked Enterprise with multiple animals in the same same acreage.
They can produce a heck of a lot more food with the with, without using the pesticides without using the herbicides without without using significant additional water inputs, you know? And, and, and not only that, they're they're sequestering. Carmen there and that's net. Carbon think they're improving the quality of the land are
increasing, biodiversity. I mean that is where I think we have to go if we're going to if we're going to have a sustainable food system over the next several decades, as we see an increase in population, if that happens, you know, as opposed to what we have now which is just a you know, a hugely degradation of agricultural system, where we have You know, crop monocrop cultures that destroy the soil, deplete the soil, you know and that's you know where our food
is coming from largely and it's not really sustainable, its fossil fuel intensive, it's pesticide intensive. It's herbicide it's an intensive and most things all have a negative consequences to the environment. So You Know the Way Forward really is a regenerative We're coming regen of animal and plant agricultural hybrid technique and that requires animals. There's no way not to utilize those guys. Yeah, totally hundred percent
agree. And I mean, if you just start diving deeper into that, you know, that that becomes more and more clear, it just takes a little bit of legwork. I mean, it's it's becoming more known, but he just has to dive a little deeper than what mainstream media wants to throw out at you at first glance, you know? So hopefully people keep learning in the Right direction there. So I want to know a little bit more about this meet our X platforms. I've heard you talk about it for.
I've checked it out. Just kind of spend this last little bit here. Talking about that and promoting yourself here, I want to spread the word. Yeah, so metarex, you know my someone Pro so my partner her name's Maseratis to me is a she is an entrepreneur, a data scientist in Silicon Valley and so she approached me and she's been on a convert out now for For quite a while and she approached me is kind of wanted to partner up with me and helped
me develop a platform. And so we kind of came up with this sort of idea and we're still evolving. We've got a long ways to go. And so what we want to eventually accomplished, we've got our sights set on some other big, big stuff. But what it is currently is it's a platform, you know, first of all, it's a huge resource for anybody that wants to learn about or Implement a car word
out. We have largest resources in the world, I mean, we've got, you know, literally hundreds of Hundreds of success stories, people look at, we have research article, we've got an eight thousand plus research, library of articles that support, you know, various aspects of what
we're doing. So all the science and world, you can want, we've got all kinds of Articles and Publications. You can utilize all compiled in one area we have, you know, multiple multiple daily meetings through Zoom which were all video conferences that, you
know, hundreds of people can join at one time. you know, of all kinds of support meetings, you know, whether it's diabetes, you know, it's whether it's addiction, whether it's Eating Disorders, whether it's weight loss, or mental health issues, or, you know, any of those topics and I have a meeting every single morning with the members anywhere between, you know, 40 to 100 people will show up at that every day we have, you know, you know coaching, you know for people that need
support, not everybody needs support, you know, you know, You tell people just eat a bunch of meat and drink some water and you're fine. Some people run with that and they do fine and other people really struggle with trying to implement it and they need support. So we have a coaching platform. We've got, you know, a hundred
plus coaches. Now that have been certified that, you know, people can sign up for really, really, I want to keep this because it has such a profound impact on people's lives and improving their health. I want to keep it affordable and accessible to many people as possible. So we made the, you know, the the coaching sessions are, you know, they're 18 bucks for half
an hour. I mean, they're just incredibly cheap, you know, we just, you know, we have people in that people are doing it because they love it. They're passionate about its change their life and they want to help other people and quite, honestly, they're doing it anyway. They're they're talking about it all the time because they can't stop. So we're like, you know, we're going to get you guys trained and you're going to. You can do this and help people.
And you don't make a little bit of money, kind of as a part-time type of situation, kind of like an Uber driver might do. So we're building that up, you know. Got a fasting platform, we've got will probably end up with the keto platform. So, we're trying to retry to give people an alternative to the standard way, people treat lifestyle, lifestyle, issues, and chronic disease.
So, if you can go there and get your, you know, your health, your nutrition, your Fitness, your sleep, in an order. That's going to have a far bigger impact and if you go to the physician and you get 15 minutes. So being shuffled through an appointment, I'm getting totally green head. It a pill. So we're trying to give people an option for that.
So it's going to be kind of a alternative for people that it's want to want to obtain health and not go through, you know, Medical Care, you know, and I think there's a difference between that I love it. I love it. It's grown like crazy since. When did you launch that? So we launched in November. So we're you know right around a little over six months and yeah, we've grown to, you know, we've got, you know, several thousand members.
Now, I think we're up into a thick, Rope A Dope. 4,000 members right now and growing every single day. We pick up 20, 30 40, 50 people a day typically so you know it's growing pretty rapidly and you know, it's and people are enjoying it. I mean, they really like to support, you know, we've got with social media, things like Facebook, the platform's one or Limited, in their interaction, to their kind of, you know, we're seeing more and more
Direction in these platforms. Letting people talk to, you know, they're kind of directing what people are allowed to talk about, you know, there's some little bit Of censorship going on which, you know, you know, I don't know where it's going to go, but we're already seeing, you know, it may be that in two years from now, eating meat will be considered a you know, are promoting a meat may be considered a sensible offense, you know, or something like that and be sin x, you know.
Yeah. That is going to be that's going to be said. So we're kind of pushing back and we have a little bit of a, you know, a little bit of, I guess a political aspiration in the fact that we want to influence policy when it comes to nutrition and health. So we have people like mine and are doing that.
You know. And so that is where we're going in. And like I said we've got a lot of, you know, technical plans Beyond this to expand into other other avenues and becoming and make this more powerful. And I think we're going to get there over the next few years. And I think, I mean whether they're keto or low carb, or a carnivore or whatever. That, maybe it's definitely all the step in the right direction. So just simply getting that that
message out there. There and amplifying in the mean shoot at the good fight right there so there's anything I could do just let me know. Well yeah I mean I appreciate it. Like I said I'm you know will maybe get you in on the in one of our meetings to talk to our crowd, that'd be great. So kind of percent and what's the the website link case people in check that out. So it's just meet our xor X like the prescription sign, so meet
our x.com. So that's that's where you can go there and then you know obviously I'm well my social media, Instagram is shown Sha WN Baker, 1967 on Instagram, Twitter. Oh man. S Baker MD. And then I've got a little YouTube channel which I you know I put up a video pretty much every day. So I mean I'm you know my my my social media is slowly moving along.
I've got about three hundred thousand, you know, people in my social media followers you know kind of making progress there and you know, it's been, it's been fun. It's been entertaining someone a little bit controversial. Hey, will you get it anything in life worth? It wasn't going for. Or is going to end up a little bit of controversy, but that's when, you know, you're on the right track because you're making something happen. In the yep. I'll shoot Sean.
Keep doing what you're doing. Let's say let's regroup, sometime. I'll come trained. The horse stalls with you. That sounds good man. All right, thank you. Having shit.