Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes. Ketose a.com. And today I've got special guest Seth Lieutenant on the line and we're going to dive into all things diet. So he has done several different types of diets. He's done the ketogenic diet. He's done super high protein version of ketogenic diet. He's done flexible dieting. He's done it all. Now, he's back on the ketogenic diet and he's learned so much through each of these different stages to reach these different
dietary experiments. And I wanted to kind of pull the curtain back and learn from him and see what he's experimented with. And why, and what he's learned in that Journey. Yeah, I learned a ton. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. Enjoy following along with his content on social, and I just wanted to bring him on the podcast and dive a little bit deeper. So sit back, relax and enjoy the podcast with Seth. We are laughs Seth away, brother. I'm doing well. How are you? I'm good, man.
I'm good. I'm excited to chat with you because you've been, you've been following me on social for I want a man, like, I remember interacting with you. Like when I first started, keto Savages, brain is a business. And in that time I've seen you do all kinds of different experiments, do all kinds of different diets. And now you recently made a post that you're back on keto. So I kind of want to just peel the curtain back, dive into, that whole journey and evolution, as to what you've
done, what's worked? What hasn't worked and why you're now doing keto again. Yeah, sure.
Yeah, gosh, that was probably 2017 and you know to my knowledge that's kind of when he do really started to kind of blow up. So, you know, I guess to to rewind a little bit, you know, I guess let's see I would have been close to 13 or 14 years ago when I was a little younger, obviously, I you know, I started having some health issues, you know as Ben, wait, and I was talking to my sister and she's got, she's got Hashimoto's hypothyroid. You know, you normally see, typically more with women,
right? And she said, well, you know, you could go do some blood work and see if you've got an issue going on. And so I did and sure enough had, you know, thyroid antibodies, and my thyroid levels weren't great. Eight. And, you know, got an ultrasound and had some, you know, nodules on my thyroid. So all not good things. You want to hear from a from an Endocrinology standpoint. So we're like symptoms that you experience in that led you to believe something was up. Yeah.
I mean, it's a lot of those just kind of, like, your typical like feeling tired, you know, obviously weight gain, you know, I'm struggling with the energy that sort of thing. So, Those are the primary symptoms for me. You know, when you look up symptoms for for hypothyroidism.
It's like a mile long. So it's it's highly variable for a lot of people, you know, some people, you know, they'll start to lose their eyebrows or their hair, or they have skin issues or their, you know, typically a lot you'll see with women. Like, they'll get cold or extremities or cold there, you know, basal body temperature is not It's like literally under your 98 Degrees. So it just depends.
So, you know that happened. And you know, I started on the typical route of, you know, I went to an endocrinologist and he prescribed some Synthroid and then you kind of go through this cycle of you, take the dose for a couple months and then Joe, do blood work and then readjust, you know, depending on the results of that blood work. And you know, the dosage is kept under going up and up and up and eventually, you know, and I wasn't really feeling like I was having any sort of success with
that. So I kind of dug around talk to some friends and family. I got pointed to a different doctor and he kind of started to look at things. A little brought more broadly and Put me on a different medication which is like naturally desiccated thyroid hormone. So tired hormone, but it's got a little bit of the active thyroid to, so there's t43 and I'm sure,
you know all about that. But so that seemed to make me feel a little bit better, but we started, you know, looking a little more broadly at my blood work and you know, some of the things I came to light. So my My fasting blood glucose was 130, which is not great. My my testosterone was super low and my estrogen was a little elevated so loads he bad blood glucose, you know shitty thyroids just kind of like the trifecta of of metabolic, you know syndrome really, right?
So he You know, in retrospect, I wish you would have told me this but so he put me on a testosterone gel or cream or something like that and it didn't really work very well, but I kept Takin it, we switched to a compounded cream that seemed to work a little bit better. And when I say work you just again, you assess your blood work. What were your numbers that what was the depth of your testosterone when you started the cream and what they get up to with the cream?
If you remember? So. I'd have to look back at my blood work, but I'm pretty sure it was like in the 250s. Hmm. It's a pretty low and the cream kind of would get me up to like, four or five hundred range which, you know, depending on who you ask and you can look at like, free free testosterone and total testosterone, and shbg, which all kind of play into how well your body is actually using the It's available to you.
Right? Mhm, so, the numbers got up there, but, you know, so I just kind of kept Truckin along and I ended up switching doctors because I had a job opportunity that the movement into a different city temporarily. So, The doing that. And at the time, I, you know, my lifestyle was heavy, heavy travel, as probably traveling for work 50, to 75 percent. So, that kind of Lifestyle does not lend itself to any sort of consistence habits of diet or exercise it can, but for me it wasn't right.
So I, you know, I was getting very heavy, I think at the point, you know, I got up to 275 pounds, you know, I'm 661 so. 75. Isn't. Depending on how much muscle you have, wouldn't be a big deal, but it was probably under muscled. So, you know, just very overweight. And so, you know, taking these medications and, you know, I think there's a misconception that when you get your thyroid levels adjusted and maybe your testosterone and range that there's some sort of magic solution, right?
That it's just going to, you can just keep doing everything you're doing. And things will just improve right? And it's really not the case. You're going to see, you're going to see some of some improvements but you know, I hadn't learned yet that You have to, you have to make changes in your lifestyle to really let those medications be effective at the end of the day. So fast forwarded to 2017. And I had a pretty life-changing event. My previous wife passed away.
Suddenly. There's just kind of a freak accident and that really kind of changes your perspective on things, right? So so I found myself. No, grieving over my wife and punitive examining my life. And, you know, you can kind of, take two to two paths.
At that point, you could decide to be really depressed and sad and just kind of, you know, eat or drink yourself into Oblivion, to try to feel better, or you can go the other direction and really start trying to focus on yourself, and your health and your Your mental well-being. And and luckily, that's kind of the choice I made. So that's 2017. I can't remember how I stumbled on Cheeto.
I can't remember if it was like a Facebook ad or if I read something somewhere, but but at some point I joined, I want to say it was one of What are the ketogenic athlete groups? Because there was a couple and so that kind of started me down down the path with keto. So, you know initially what I gleaned was you remove carbohydrates and you eat fat and protein and and you lose weight. I mean that's that's kind of at the time, how it was presented
to me, right? I think that's the general populace conception of the right. So, so that's what I did. So I, you know, I didn't, I didn't taper off. I just, I just went in full-bore removed and I even, I even went a few steps further. So I removed all grains, all grains, all artificial sweeteners and and really, really kind of went, you know, kind of Hardcore Tito and an issue. Actually, I had some great results and they were very
quick. So, you know, started eating keto weight kind of started dropping quickly, you know, when you get that kind of momentum. if you know, working out starts to feel better and, you know, that's like what are the other things that Is tough for people. Because like, if you're, if you're overweight and you're uncomfortable and someone sitting there telling you well just move more, right? It's not, it's not always the easiest thing to do.
So, I think I think the little initial kind of wins by starting Quito and feeling good about it and feel a little bit better about myself, you know, I started waking up early, hitting the gym everyday had no idea what I was doing. Way. If I could give anyone advice, they're starting to get healthy is definitely hire a trainer first because I feel like I wasted two or three years, just doing random shit and all the stuff you saw on YouTube, right?
Yeah, exactly, you know, YouTube or just it and there's also that intimidation. I don't think I moved into like the free weight area. Or even trying to do compound movements until much later, right? Just because you don't want to do something wrong or you feel like everybody's looking at you. I mean, it's typical typical gym
Noob concerns, right? So. So yeah, you know, I did keto for a number of years and, you know, you learn more about it, you kind of learn this and that and and I found myself about three years into it.
And this is right before covid and everything started that, you know, I had I kind of got into a plateau and and I was still a little bit of in the mindset that with Quito somehow you could just as long as they're eating like protein and fat at and stayed in ketosis and avoiding carbs that the weight should just continue dropping off. And so it's weighted it stopped, right? And I was still probably I think I got to I was probably around 28% body fat 29, something like that.
And so so the the pandemic hit and you know, again people are kind of faced with two choices there, right? It's like, well now I can't go to the gym so I could sit at home and eat it either really poor diet and feel bad about the situation and make excuses for why I can't. You know, continue to continue to progress and a healthy way or
try to make it work. So so I did I, you know, I somehow scrounge together a couple couple of dumbbells and at the time, they were really hard to find because everybody was trying to do the same thing right there, trying to Cobble together these like, a black market for gym equipment at the time, man. Oh, dude, like, I found this kid and I thought it was genius. He was pouring stuff. And dumbbells, and and I almost bought a sad because I couldn't,
I couldn't find anything else. And I, and at the same time. I joined Rob Goodwin's Facebook group, and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna hire him for a little bit and because he posted some deal is like just nutrition
training. I was paying for his full package and he set up macros and those macros for me at the time, were so different than what I was eating and what I mean by that is and, you know, you've had robbed on the podcast before he kind of because it does a little more protein. First protein, heavy approach. Maybe a lower lower ratio of energy macros and it tends to work for a lot of people and you know, that's the thing to they everybody's different.
Some people can't slam like, you know, 300 grams of protein a day or whatever. So so I did I worked with him for a while and I think the combination of one I was no longer traveling anymore to You know, in that scenario, you're able to really control your environment. So no longer, I wasn't didn't have the option of going out to eat anymore. Didn't really have the option of having a lot of distractions. So I was able to like, completely Focus, you know, other than still working,
completely focus on my diet. Work on these like, you know, backyard gym workouts and you know ended up cutting down to about 15 percent body fat, which for me was the lowest I've ever been and you know, those were really kind of proud of myself and astonished and So, so that kind of got me to a point where? I was like, well, you know, now, where do I go from this? And I was kind of tired of dieting and so I didn't really get past fifteen percent body fat. And so I decided. All right.
I'm going to try this flexible dieting thing because I follow guys, like laying Norton to, and I try to file, I try to keep a pretty balanced approach on the types of information I pull in, but, you know, he's a big proponent of flexible dieting and he had just started, His is carbon app and so I started using that to reverse and I decided that I'd try to kind of like reintroduce carbs for a couple reasons.
One. I think mentally I had kind of vilified them for so long and I'm sure you see this a lot. Like it almost kind of turns into like an eating disorder and for certain people. Certain people. It's not for me. I kind of Felt like I may be needed to repair my my relationship with other food groups. So I did that. I did a reverse diet and I was really regimented about it and it worked really well for a while.
I think I got six months into a reverse and then went into maintenance and All of a sudden, you know, it's kind of started falling off the rails. So if he's start allowing these foods, and this is a really kind of good education moment for me. From a diet standpoint, but, you know, it was like, now I start identify like, trigger foods for me and, you know, and so like you get into this position where you're like, well, I'm maintaining your or I'm trying to bulk, so it's okay.
And I'm just going to eat this entire pizza and stuff like that. So II decided to continue, you know, trying to bulk with carbs in the Equation. And it ended up just being like a sloppy bolt and there's a lot of other words for it, but a dirty bulk, or what have you and I did put on a lot of lean tissue, but I put on way more way more adipose than I than I wanted.
And so, you know, I went from like 195 back up to 245 and you know, the interesting thing about it was You know, when when you're focused on trying to lose weight for so long, you know, for me. It was really for years of
weight loss, you know, a couple things happen. you're always in this mentality of like, you got to lose, you got to lose, you got to lose and, you know, so so the process of gaining weight back, what I did find interesting was that because I was still training a lot that I did that my body composition even though I got back up to a weight that I was that I've been at before my my body was completely different so you My waist didn't grow as much as it had been before around 230 or
240 and you know, different things like that. So So it wasn't all bad thing and I think from a learning perspective, you know, I think every every person who you know, is coming from a position of trying to lose from a very heavy perspective. You you do need to get to a point where you need to realize that. It's okay to gain some Back, especially, especially if it's in the part, you know, the purpose of, you know, gaining muscle but it's just, it can be so scary.
And so daunting. This is just the concept of
seeing that scale. Go back up, you know, I completely identify with it because I went through it, you know, I would say that there's some tools That are useful in that that scenario, you know having a smart scale that shows you and I know they're not accurate, but you know there they get you close enough, especially if you're using the same tool to measure from one point to another, but what what really kind of helps which my mentality to is watching
watching the scale go up. I'm watching the muscle mass value, go up and keep an eye on, you know, the body water. I'm out and then the estimated fat percentage, even though I put on a lot of weight, my body fat percentage didn't didn't increase significantly or at least back to the point that it was before. So, what I mean by that is when I started, you know, dieting with Rob I was at probably 238
pounds. but 28% body fat right now, you know, I cut down to 195 and then I was at 15 and then I got back up to 245, but I was only at 22 percent body fat, so I was back around the same weight technically, but the body composition obviously was completely different than where I had started before. Yeah, I think the reverse diets and I like being in legitimate building phase is something that I've really tried to harp on because you don't want to hear that in most of the conversation
in the keto space. Like, you hear about intermittent fasting. Here been extended fasting, you hear about protein, sparing modified, fast and eaten 700 calories, but you don't really hear people talking about eating at a surplus. Us for a longer period of time than you eat at a deficit, and that is so incredibly important. Yeah, and, you know, especially I can see it being, especially a problem with keto because people always go to Quito to lose,
right? And you know, this better than anyone, probably in the bodybuilding spaced is very few individuals. You'd be like, Oh, I'm gonna do a game face and I'm going to do a keto. Yeah, aren't anybody? I think I may be one of the few, right? So so the whole discussion around like, You know, maybe it's time to stop losing trying to lose weight and it's time to start gaining muscle, right?
And, and if there's a lot of people in the business space that are starting to, you know, talk that way, you know, another person I follow and I, you know, I think her messaging is great. Is dr. Gabriel lion. Always talk to you about, you know, the importance of muscle and how, you know, the Obesity crisis is not. People being over fat but so much of people being under
muscle, right? So, you know, as a Keno influencer or educator, I could see that being incredibly difficult to get, you know, get people to wrap their heads around as is, you know, it's it's not only about loss. You really need to focus on what you're gaining to. It takes so much time, man, like people don't like playing the
long game. With anything because I mean, I mean once you like when you first start working out and you can probably attest to this when you first started lifting, even though you didn't know what you were doing in the gym and you took a while to get to the freeway section, but you probably put on a pretty good bit of muscle quickly, with those New Beginnings, but then once you have that new, beginning phase come and go, and you're more of a, seasoned
lifter, like, you're lucky if you put on a couple pounds of muscle a year and that's not going to make, you know, tremendous change in the scale. Wait, in people, they don't like hearing that, you know. Oh, yeah, it's a total. It becomes a total grind and either you have to love it or you don't you should find something else to keep you active. Right? But yeah, it's that it's that immediate gratification.
And I you know, I posted something about that recently just because this time around it was it was really astonishing. So back to, you know, what are the other topics that we're going to talk about is why I went back to Quito is so, you know, I towards the end. Last year, I got a to a pretty eat pretty healthy weight as like, alright, I need to, I need to get some of this off of me and I mean, unhealthy weight. And I, and I just knew that I knew for me and this isn't the
case for everyone. And a lot of people do flexible dieting, very successfully and more power to them. But I knew for me that if I tried to cut Doing flexible dieting. I would not be successful. I just I came full circle and realized for me personally. One, I think I do. Need those kind of mental guardrails on on my dietary choices. And and this is one of the things I kind of remembered or re realized after starting keto, again.
Is that my my hunger and my food focus is much lower doing, he do that. It was when I was just eating, you know, whatever. So, you know, After being about a week into it, I noticed that, you know, sometimes lunch would pass and I just I forgot about it and when I was you know, what I'd reintroduce carbs, I was very focused on the next meal. Like what am I having the next meal?
When am I having the next meal? So that was a big you know that that was a big shift in a good thing to remember about, you know, maybe why for some people like myself why Quito is such a powerful Full way to way to eat, you know, it's just it works for me. It keeps me my adherence higher. I like, I genuinely enjoy the foods. And you know, what are the other things I noticed is towards the end of, we'll just call it my bulk. But towards the end of me, just getting fat.
I started noticing those afternoon crashes again, like and I had Didn't I hadn't had them in so long, does like oh, yeah. This really sucks. Hmm. 2 p.m. To 2:30 p.m. Slump. Would, you know, I found myself taking naps sometimes I'm like, can I do not? Now? I'm not an adverse is so that that's gone. Now, I don't have the afternoon slump anymore, you know, so it's just little things like that.
Just kind of, you know, you kind of forget about it after After a year of of eating whatever you want. Yeah. So now, you know, it's unfortunate that that Quito is become. Kind of vilified. Right?
Right. So, you know, like I said, I follow guys like laying and he's actually pretty even-keeled when talking about Tito or low-carb, but there's a lot of a lot of doctors in the space that like to make fun of it, you know, you know, everyone doing Quito is drinking butter and, you know, eating bacon and and you and I know that it doesn't have to be like that. Yeah.
Now, it's interesting man. I'm one of the reasons I was excited to get you on this podcast is because you've done a variety of diets and a lot of people have not done a variety of diets and they see success with one thing. Then they become dogmatic in that one thing that listen the never leave their Echo chamber. And for me, like, I've done a whole bunch of diets as well. Most of, which were long before keto, like, I've done the road adding.
I've done the Table dining. I've done them carb back loading up that all these things and then found success with keto. But that doesn't mean that I totally discarded, all the benefits that came from those other diets. I kind of took what worked for me and discarded, what didn't? But there's a lot that I, you know, lean on with regard to flexible dieting. Like, there's a lot of good that
comes from flexible dieting. Honestly, if you just still kind of my protocol him down to, you know, the simplest form. It's kind of like Dieting with a ketogenic macronutrient distribution and you know, ketogenic Foods basically. But a lot of the concepts and natural or in flexible dieting or worthwhile Concepts that a lot of people in the keto space aren't hearing and we'll never hear if they don't look outside
the record chamber. So I've appreciated that about you because you follow a variety of people, you post things on your social that most people in the keto, space aren't posting and some of that I agree with. Some of it, I don't but I appreciate. I appreciate the difference of
opinion. I appreciate a variety of thoughts, and I feel like if we all can do that collectively and learn from one another, then we're all going to be better for it. Yeah, I mean a couple of those dogmatic things that benefit, you know, I feel that I learned from my experience of flexible dieting and you know one thing that I don't think people realize about flexible dying. It isn't just hey my calories today or 2100 and that means I can eat 2,100 calories of Twinkies.
There's there is nobody in the nutrition space that that's a Hold it. A flexible dieting that will tell you that, I mean, at least most the people I follow. They say, look, you've got a nail your protein. It's got to be an adequate amount. And then, yeah, however, you want to distribute your energy if you want more fat or more carbs or whatever, than do that, right, but it's not just like just eat whatever to get to that
caloric threshold. Right? And I mean, I'm sure there are people out there that do that, but that's not really the basis of it. It. And that is one of the things I kind of took away from. It is one the way I approach keto now is, maybe a little bit different than other people. I think I feel like maybe Thomas de Lauer. Does this too. But I tend to gravitate now. Two more leader proteins. So I'll go for, you know, 93 or 96%, ground, beef chicken, you know, breast meat obviously, you
know leader. Dishes, and then, I'll back, I'll back load and my fats, so from various sources, so, you know, to hit my, you know, to get some fats in. I'll throw in some avocado, or obviously cheese or, you know, whatever other fats, or sides decide on. And I do that personally because I just find it easier to one. Make sure I hit my protein goal and I, you know, it's really
tough. To hit macros, sometimes when you have a decent amount of fat coupled with that protein, so it's like if you want to get the protein in while then fats coming along with it. So, you know, unfortunately, I don't I don't go after Cuts Like ribeye very often anymore. Just because one I've kind of feel the fat content is highly variable. So if you're trying to cut that becomes A little bit of a nuisance. Yeah, totally. So I don't, I mean, I don't know
how I mean. I know you, you know, you you typically eat fattier Cuts, I kind of think that you can get away with it because you've got a lot more muscle mass than most people. I don't say you want to do steaks though. They might cut if I'm not like a competition prep because they are a lot more variable. I'll typically go for fattier ground beefs as opposed to a steak which is going to be all over the place. Macro standpoint and and to your point though.
I think there's a huge benefit in getting leaner sources of protein and adding quality fats. If you are, unsure of the quality of the fats in fattier cuts of protein affect. A lot of people that are buying, you know, super fatty cuts from bottom shelf, you know, Walmart grocery stores where they don't really know the quality of that protein or that fat. That's probably not going to be an optimal fat source. So, gravitating towards a leaner cut and then adding, you know,
all of Of oil, avocado. Something like that's probably
healthier. Yeah, absolutely, especially with the ongoing, you know, lipid debate on whether or not saturated fat is good or bad or or you know, poof has or those good or bad, you know, I kind of mix in some of the maybe more traditional thinking these days on, on my fat content and you know, anyone can feel free to blow me up on on Instagram if they disagree but You know, it's so I the protein thing is a really important take away and you know, it's funny.
I had a friend the other day. He's like, hey, man, I really want to lose 10 or 15 pounds. He's like, I know you know, you do Ketone. You're like keto. I don't think I'm I don't think I want to go that hard. So like what what suggestions could you make to me? I said, look man, there's some really easy things you can tweak in your behaviors that don't require you doing. Something, you know, as Extreme as a vegan diet or a ketogenic diet, or a carnivore or whatever.
I said. Look, you know, if at every meal you focus on protein, make the protein, the star of the meal don't make him created a meal out of just noodles, right? Stop drinking sugar. So, don't, you know, if you drink juice, stop drinking juice, obviously if you drink sugar. Cut that out because liquid calories or are probably the worst kind of calories, and I don't care what what diatribe you're in.
Like, I think everybody will tell you that for the most part and I was like and start walking after dinner with your family. Every every day. I love it and he started doing those things and started seeing results and you know, so sometimes it's just little little behavioral tweaks. That I add up to bigger a bigger thing.
And so, I mean, I definitely learned a lot of those behaviors to. It's like, it's not so much just to count macros and follow a diet plan, but it's, it's just all the healthy behaviors that you start to kind of learn and adopt, and they become like him, they become part of your lifestyle. Rather than 0, this is some new thing. I'm having to do right now, you
know, ya think? That's why I have such a hard time with people that do these crash diets or you know, crazy, caloric restrictive, diets or anything that is challenges. Yeah. Or anything. It's just not sustainable. Like it's just it's it's it's a further embedding this philosophy of Quick, Fix mentality into the people's brains that are doing it. And that's never the, the underlying Foundation of
philosophy. You want to base your decisions on. So I've always We said that if it's not something that you look forward to doing, you know, for a lifetime, then it's probably not worth doing anyways, and I mean there is some Nuance to that.
I'm obviously like I don't plan on being as strict as I would with a competition prep for my lifetime, but I've made doing preps in a sustainable manner, you know, really good and healthy for me. Like I enjoy it for that time that I do it. But then a couple that with a period of being in a surplus where I'm not tracking as strictly, and I feel like that is super important people. I don't know, man, like people they get. So they get so short-sighted on reaching a honestly is up.
Oftentimes superficial goal and they're willing to sacrifice all for a very finite period of time but then when they remove things, when they feel like they're going with that when they feel like they're sacrificing, they are so much more likely to binge or Purge or whatever in the opposite direction to try and make up for that quote. Unquote sacrifice, they went without, so if you don't ever feel like you're sacrificing, you're much more likely to continue seeing Positive results.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think finding, you know, finding that. That balancer or whatever is sustainability to you personally. Write. So I know for like for you and Crystal you guys are happy eating a very strict, ketogenic lifestyle and you have no desires to kind of stray beyond that. And I'm pretty sure she probably eats a little bit differently than you. But in general, that's kind of kind of your bag, right? And you know, where where my wife and I kind of landed.
In our 10 Aikido lifestyle is we will eat keto. I would say 90, 95 percent of the time and times that we don't are very intentional and it's it's something that like say for instance, like I really like pizza. Okay. Well, I'm not going to not eat. Keto Pizza just for some garbage like like Pizza Hut or Dominos, right? If I'm if I'm going to have pizza. It is literally going to be the best pizza in town. Yeah, like for me it's like it's got to be like for me. It's got to be worth it.
It's got to be worth the Excursion into into having some carbohydrates. And that is that works for us, right? So it's kind of a special thing. It's a special event. We go. Do, we have a great great dinner and then we move on and we and we go back to eating eating our energetic lifestyle and and it's all good. And that's what kind of keeps it sustainable for us. I think, you know, other people, maybe do it a little bit differently.
I just kind of found that that in part of the reason for that for me is like Some of the keto substitutes are fine, but like, for me, I'd rather just not have it at all. So like, you know, early in my Quito journey, I would make the keto piece pizzas. I make the fat do crust or the chicken crust and kind of sit there and Kid myself that it was
like, as good as the real thing. And then at some point, I was like, look, if I'm gonna have pizza, I'll just go have pizza and then, and then, you know, continue on my ketogenic lifestyle because The invitations for me were just not not worth the effort. So, yeah and see, I've got no
qualms with that at all, man. Like, if you're able to recognize that have enough, self-awareness, no wind to, you know, pull the reins in after that meal and you're able to, you know, moderate that and do fine with it. I mean more power to you, as far as I'm concerned, I'm strict, keto, Crystal stick. He do? We have been for seven years, but that's not something that I ever want to come across as pushing on to other people.
I think there's some Um, that's what they absolutely perform best at and prefer to do. And for me, I like to be able to Showcase, you know, my life as an example for something that they could do in a healthy, sustainable manner, but I'm not in any way shape form or fashion saying that everybody should do what I'm doing. Yeah, especially, you know, I can see from from, you know, from your position in
bodybuilding, the specially. I think it's it's a pretty powerful message and visual for you to be able to say look like Strict heat. Oh, I don't do carb backloading. I don't do timed carbs and somehow I'm still at Peak Performance. And and, you know, basically against all Bro, Science, right? So it's a really cool thing and anytime that, you know, someone says I do you can't, you can't body build without carbs. I always pointed to you because it's the most most obvious example of it.
So you know, I think the other thing that I'm seeing more of that, I honestly stop following a lot of Quito influencers, or even just Fitness in fluids in general, as I feel like like social media has gotten to this point where People really majoring in the minors. Now. Yeah, we're we're like what I think most people actually need is just a solid foundation of the basics of whatever route, you know nutrition and exercise is going to help them.
But, you know, unfortunately that doesn't sell. It's not click Beatty enough but like, you know, for me, if I was just starting on a ketogenic Journey today. Someone someone telling me that artificial sweeteners, they're bad and this food isn't clean. Or that food is not clean. I mean, that's just going to add stress and confusion to me whose I'm just trying to like lose some weight, right?
I'm trying to get healthy, but like I can't imagine like if I had this laundry list of things that I can't do on top of avoiding carbohydrates, it just becomes untenable. So like for me, it's like it almost sets people up for
failure when we're ready. people either trying to did buy the latest supplement or or avoid all these things that maybe, you know, once you get healthier, you can start focusing on like, yeah, maybe maybe I should remove some so much artificial sweeteners, or maybe I should kind of focus on having less seed oils in my diet, but I think for a new, for a new Layman, like, I don't see how people do it. Yeah without really stressed out.
No, I totally agree minute. It's kind of been one of my big frustrations as well because I think I don't know why that's the case. But I feel like there's so many people that have been in the keto space for enough years. Now that those people have, you know, figured out. It's kind of like the underlying foundational stuff that works with keto and you'd only, right? So many books about how to Carbs and fat high and, you know, kind of like the macro distribution
split. So, after that's been met, after that demand has been reached. It's like, okay. What else can we dive from sink our teeth into? So they go to the seed oils. They go to the, you know, organ Meats, they go to the fruits in the honey debate. They go into uric acid, they go into everything else and all those things are super important and I'm eager to learn more about it because I'm curious about it, but for anybody that's
coming into the space. Space because they see a magazine at the checkout counter at the grocery store. It says, hey, you can lose weight with keto so they started Googling Quito and they see all this other minutiae. They're going to be like, what the hell am I doing? Yeah, and honestly, quite honestly to, I mean, it just from a practical standpoint. It could get really expensive, really fast. So, you know, so if I'm Joe new Dieter and all of a sudden I'm being told to only eat grass fed
meat. Only have passion braced legs. No, artificial sweeteners. And let's its Stevia or whatever. No. Seed oils. No keto Foods because they're not clean. Yeah, and let's say, I make like forty five grand a year, like, what am I buying? You know, I'm in a lot of those Specialty Foods.
I mean, if you can buy that way, awesome, like sometimes, I will buy grass-fed for me. Like My biggest Takeaway on some of the, you know, we're, you know, Organics out there or Foods where I notice a big difference. If I go in a pasture raised organic direction is hands-down eggs, like you can notice just from a taste perspective, the massive difference between the two, right?
But some of the other things it's like, am I going to notice a huge difference between me, you know, drinking a z via and a Diet Coke? Probably not right now. Like if I'm someone who's chasing down maybe some some gut dysbiosis or something. Maybe it's a good idea to start, trying to eliminate things. They can be problematic. But that's a whole different discussion. Yeah. I totally agree.
Totally agree. How does the keto community and the people that are putting on information hedge against it though? Like, I don't know the solution to that problem. Because I don't I can't imagine they're going to start back track and then go back to creating content around the basics. Again, you know, because like you said, that's not as appealing. Yeah, it's tough because and again, it's not Sensational, right? So, you know, you've been in the space for a long time, a lot of
people know who you are. But at the same time, if you know, if you're if you focus on, you know, number of followers, like, you know, in general, I would say Savage has less followers and some other key to a person like totally. So you so you have to ask. Okay.
Well, why is that, you know, because Roberts like a super smart guy, very accomplished, you know, writing books has a stellar keto product out in the market, you know, why doesn't he have half a million followers, you know, and quite honestly, it's a double-edged sword because one of the reasons I I continue following. You is probably the reason why that is and it's because I don't see you doing doing cessation,
Sensational things. I don't see you throwing shade at, you know, different different influencers out there like the at one thing about that for a second because that's that's worth bringing some attention to. I think that is absolutely why so many people's platforms have grown exponentially, and I think that it's just Sad reality. I think when you have to resort to talking shit about other people and were to grow your own platform.
Your message is not that great, like your personal message is not that great. And it may be great. But there's a forget who I think it's a Jim Rohn quote, but he's like, there's two ways to have the biggest skyscraper in the city. One is to build the biggest guy straight from the city and the others that are everyone else was down. And I feel like when we resort to just throw-in shade and be - as are, you know, primary Weapon, it's like that. I don't want any part of that.
I will gladly have my 38 whatever thousand subscribers as opposed to 380,000. If that's what it means. Yeah, it's it's a funny thing because some of it. You know, some of it is well intended. So, you know, he hate going back to the Lane Norton all the time, but he's a good example of kind of both sides of that coin. So often. He will, he will have regular content about some BS. He saw and took talk or
whatever. And I do think that's like useful because it's like kind of debunking some really terrible advice. Right? But at the same time, you know, depending on the tone of the content, it could kind of come off as as like, as a personal attack. So it's a really, it's a really fine line, you know. What's what's well-intended in useful and maybe, what's what's just Sensational?
And like like you said, like talking shit, so, You know, I think at the end of the day you just stick to your guns, right? You just you do you do what you do best and I think people recognize when someone is genuine and you know, and plus success isn't isn't only that number on on Instagram or Tick Tock or whatever. Right? It's where you can find success in other ways.
Yeah, totally. And I mean To tip my hat to Lane. Like, there's a lot of things that I learned about natural bodybuilding from Lane long. Before I ever got into the ketogenic space. I mean, he was putting out information on bodybuilding.com around natural bodybuilding long time ago. I mean, I remember reading his articles and blog posts way back in like 2012 are 14 or something like that.
But you know, there's a lot that I've learned from him and it, It's hard for me to see him talk, very negatively towards. A lot of people that I you know, sometimes I agree with that.
This stuff laying saying a lot of times I give this airplane saying and I feel like a lot of people in the keto space would benefit tremendously from also falling some of the left stuff Lane saying, I don't like seeing negativity, but I mean, like you said, there's there's a fine line between debunking things and, you know, being a positive light and drawing attention towards Truth and truth is, I mean, what is truth? Like how do you define truth? Who knows?
And people that are, you know, putting out post and putting out content to Simply drive, you know, cliques and and be totally outrageous, you know, they may need some debunking, you know, they may need to be put in their place, but for people that are truly and genuinely trying to just do good and be a good person and share information that they believe to be, you know, good healthy quality information, even if it's
something You don't agree with. I don't see any benefit in tearing their character apart, you know, yeah, it's kind of a funny thing because I think, you know, while the intention is to discredit or debunk, you know, someone's content. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, it just drives more more attention to that person. Right? Like I see, you know, a lot of there's a lot of is a ton, a ton of shade. Round at the liver King right now, right? Because he's super Sensational.
He says crazy stuff or whatever, but every post about how crazy he is, just drives people to his page. Yeah. Yeah, he's been blown up. So like, you know, it's almost it's like good for him. Right? Like if that was, if that's the intention that it completely worked right from a marketing standpoint. So, I don't know. I don't know how you think so. Yeah, I don't know any man and I don't know. I don't know the freaking all the answers. I have no clue all the answers.
Like I am not a medical professional. I'm not a scientist. I'm not conducting formalized research and random control trials. I'm just simply living my life experimenting and like go working with clients. Seeing what I learned from them and then trying to Showcase and share that information, the best
way I know possible. And that may mean I make big mistakes and it when I make those mistakes, I try and own it. But I feel like, you know, as long as your intentions are pure and you're doing the right thing for the right reasons, people should be fairly forgiving of mistakes that you make. yeah, I think I think especially if you If you acknowledge an owner up to those Corrections, right?
Like let's say you used to say one thing or used to believe one thing and new data or new information presented itself. And now you have changed your position on that. Right? I think that's completely fine. I think I think people are normally going to want it. Want to see that in want to hear that and know that, you know, just like anyone else your, your fallible. You're able to grow. You're To learn new things and apply it, you know effectively. So it kind of goes back to like
not being so dogmatic, right? Yeah. We're learning and learning from from from everyone rather than just learning from a from an echo chamber. Yeah. Well, it's cool seeing you, you know, Duke he does--he success with that change up the style of Quito you're doing gravitate towards a much higher protein. See success with that. Do flexible dieting, take some
things from that. See success in some ways, then come back to Quito because with what you're doing in your face right now, that makes the most sense for you and I feel like that is admirable for sure. Like there's a lot of people that there's a lot of people that do things. They've had that they have a stance that's so hard and fast that they aren't willing to learn. Aren't willing to experiment, aren't willing to try new
things. And some people could accuse me of that because You know, I am super strict keto, but a lot of people don't realize that I tried so much different types of experience before that. So, like, for me, I know what I'm doing, and I know that it works well for me, but I applaud the fact that you're willing and able to try new things and see what sticks and have enough self-awareness to know what's best for you. I think it just comes with
knowledge, right? Like you the more you learn, the more you understand about things and then Things, become less less scarier. Less daunting or less unknown, that there's that quote about what is it about doing? What you do? Do, what you do, what you've always done and get was get what you've always gotten, right? And I think it was Henry Ford or somebody but That's the thing. Like, if you, if you're just going to be stuck in a mode and expecting some sort of better results.
You're never going to get it, right, because you just going to get what you what you're always going to get. So yeah, I think it's just, you know, always learning always evolving like so in my in my professional career and basically like an Industrial Engineer, and so we follow like Six Sigma and lean business principles and there's there's this core tenets of it, which is this felt dmaic. Which is Define measure analyze improve and control.
And you can, you can almost take that methodology and apply it to your own life or even, you know, since we're talking that you can apply it to diet. So you did you define the problem. You take measurements you analyze those measurements or those outcomes, you make an improvement based on what you analyzed, and then you control that Improvement and see if it is effective. Right? So that's kind of, that's kind of how I kind of look at things and approach, really most things
in life. I think that's a good, you know, code of rules to live by, for sure. Because it prevents you from Coming dogmatic and it forces you to you know, be strategic be analytical towards your environmental factors and the things that you're changing and manipulating and I feel like in the context of diet nutrition.
Like if you're doing that with any change that you make, you'll have feedback that you can make a measurable spot response to my me. That's why I love doing a competition prep because I'm literally tracking everything and I dial things into the utmost degree. A lot of people that you know aren't analytical aren't. Coming from an engineering background, aren't you?
No strategic in their changes. The change way too many things at once, and they have no clue what the catalyst is, but, you know, being strategic like you're talking, I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's easy to find yourself in that trap too. When you change too many variables at once. You know, I used to be a walking Pharmacy of supplements. When I first met my current wife, she would show up with my
suitcase. And it would just be filled with all these, like, vitamins and supplements, and whatever. And she's like, how do you know? How do you know what? This is do it. And I was like, you know what? That's a good question. I don't like, I'm just I'm just taking this one cuz this guy told me that I should start taking it and I'm taking this one because I you know, saw some advertisement that it's going to improve something or other. It's at some point. I just took it all away.
And now you know now my supplement stack is like maybe you know, two or three things. That is one thing that I am, this isn't probably specific to Quito specifically, but One thing I do like about the kid Jake lifestyle is that when you're prioritizing, I feel like at the essence, most the keto Community tries to prioritize quality Source, single ingredient foods, like in a perfect world, that's kind of where they're pushing. And if you're doing that the
need for supplements is minimal. And if you're doing you know, enough calories, you're not the crazy deficit in, you're eating mostly proteins and fats, your satiety is better. So honestly the in the day you just dr. Karen supplements. Not to carry around Tupperware full of food. And just make life easier. Yeah. Yeah, I mean this this whole idea. That you know, this supplement is going to somehow boost or you know, add some sort of multiplier towards what you're doing.
I mean, 90% of the time. It's complete BS. Unfortunately. Yeah, option. I'm sure as well as yourself. I have found a few things that I can see an actual difference. One of them is obviously the type of Museum that I take and there's a few others, but other than that like, you know, obviously we all know that fat burners are complete bullshit, you know things like CLA or L-Carnitine that is supposed to metabolize fat better.
It's like just again, it's like it's I think it's that immediate gratification lifestyle yet. It's like these, you know, people start doing those things. Because they think it's going to some sort somehow accelerate, you know, whatever they're trying to do at the time. But at the end of the day if they would just nail the basics and you know be consistent then those pills don't matter. Anyway, yeah. 100% man. I mean the only supplement that I can feel a difference from is
electrolytes. So sodium, potassium, magnesium, and then caffeine. That's the only thing I could feel a tangible difference from. I can't feel it. France with creatine people tell me, they can feel the difference of creatine and maybe they can't. Maybe some people are more responsive to it than others. I feel like there's enough science to back the efficacy of
creatine. So I take it, but I cannot feel any different with it. Yeah, you know, I I've tried to be consistent with creatine myself and, you know, people always talk about, it's going to, you know, increase mulch muscular, you know, fluids or whatever. I've never noticed a difference either and I I guess some people just are, maybe not very responsive to creatine.
One of the other supplements. I've always wondered about because they talk about it being like a pump enhancer, but it doesn't seem to matter how much I can take. I've never noticed differences l-citrulline. I mean, l-citrulline is supposed to be like the, you know, vascular Improvement supplement, but I can't say that I ever noticed a difference if Take Elsa trillion before workout or
not. Yeah, I've been playing around with a bunch of non-stem pre-workouts that have l-citrulline, that have a little bit of Glycerin in there. And I mean, I get a good pump for sure, but I also get a good pump if I don't take anything, so it's hard for me to quantify if it makes a tangible difference. Yep. Yep, and I mean some of it sometimes You know, people just have to go through that Journey themselves, right? They got to buy all the stuff.
They take all the stuff and realize all the stuff doesn't do anything. Yeah. I mean, you certainly save a lot of money when you realize that it doesn't. And some of the stuff, like, I've really tried to sink my teeth into, like I've tried a bunch of the different, you know, microgreens panic because it's like it's convincing argument. Hey, if you're eatin keto, like meat-based, you're not going to get in as many vegetables. You're missing out on all these
things. So it should do this micro greens powder every single day, and I've And then and I can't feel a difference. Is that the honestly think I feel a little bit worse that my digestion is more irregular. So it's like, I just can't justify it. You know. Yeah, you know, that was one of the other things I picked up from flexible dieting. So, I think, you know, going into coming out of Quito and going into flexible dieting. I had formed this my mindset that basically vegetables were bad.
They were to be avoided, even even ones with like, Animal carbs, I didn't really consumed very often, right? And then coming out of flexible dieting, like one of the things I enjoy now about certain vegetables is a satiety and bulk standpoint. So I like, you know, lots of green veggies or big salad just because it's it's low energy bulk in a meal. So I, you know, if just for me personally, just straight fat and protein.
Sometimes are very, you know, satisfying and so having that that decent amount of broccoli or green beans or something. Really, you know, really works better for me, at least. Especially if I'm, you know, dropping calories. Yeah. And see. I like and I like broccoli. I like brussels sprouts. Like, I like eating for the flavor. One thing. I've noticed when I'm doing like if I'm in a really steep deficit. If I Do a bunch of vegetation. I'll have that the fullness
factor from that bulk. But it's not like a satiety from like a satisfaction standpoint. I have the the blow to have the volume but I have like this underlying gnawing hunger that still exist. If that makes sense. Yeah, especially if it was like a relatively lean meal, like, you know, it's funny, but maybe it's just the difference of a couple percent percent of fat butt. You know, chicken is probably the least, satisfying thing for
me, in terms of proteins. So, I don't know how, I don't know how traditional bodybuilders do it because I'll take 93 or 96 percent beef, / / chicken any day. What's, it's weird because I know what kind of running over time. I don't keep you here too long, but in the keto space I've seen like it's funny man.
Like I've seen these massive surges in which people are given protein a And saying it all approaching the world and then I've seen the exact opposite in the Spectrum where people are saying, minimize protein, a bunch of fat and as is true with most things, it's somewhere in the middle there. But like, if I was to eat pure fat, I wouldn't be satiated. If I was to eat pure protein. I wouldn't be satiated protein has a higher thermic effect of food.
But if you just eat a whole bunch of chicken breast, I guarantee you're not going to feel truly satisfied because I've done. I've been there done that. Yeah. Absolutely. It's Like, you know, the people the folks doing like protein sparing modified fast. Like I've never done woman and I never will it just sounds? Yeah, it's just me him
miserable. I mean, it kind of just goes back to her saying, I mean you want to find what sustainable but nobody know, full, grown adult should sustain for any length of time, you know, four, five, six hundred calories. I mean, that's literally what the recognition is for a six month, old infant and I know in a perfect world The Protein sparing, Modified fast is only for two or three days.
But the problem with human psychology is that people see some weight loss in those two or three days and they start spending more time, doing protein, sparing modified fast than not because the people that are advocating for these aren't also advocating for the importance of her proper reverse diet and spending time in a surplus. Right? Right.
So all of a sudden, all of a sudden you're, you know, you're getting your body accustomed to living off of five and six hundred calories multiple times a week. We multiply that across months and and all of a sudden you're just in a really bad position. Thank you. Bingo. We'll shoot me. Where do people go to follow? Along on your journey. I know you just recently made a new Instagram that documents your nutrition your training, right? Yeah. Yeah.
I did. You know, I kind of felt like some of my personal family members got tired of me post and food and workouts. Yeah. It's I'm on Instagram. Its future. Proof PHX, you know, I'm happy to chat about anything. You know, I've gone through a lot with just, my just my thyroid and testosterone Journey alone. I've picked up a lot of knowledge. So, always happy to talk about this stuff. I like to geek out on it. And yeah, thanks for having me on, man. Yeah, man, my pleasure
definitely keep in touch. I'll continue following you and learning from you. For sure. There's ever anything I could do it to help in any way. Ma'am. Just let me know. Appreciate it. Have a great weekend. Take care of Seth.