Well, hello ladies and gents, Robert Sykes Keto savage.com. Today I've got special guest doctor Alex Pasio topless and we get aven to all things anti aging, age reversal, health span, lifespan, all that good stuff, longevity to the Max. So he is he he brought a whole bunch of interesting concepts to the table here, how we can live our life currently. What technologies are coming out to improve health span and lifespan? What the timeline for these
things are looking like? Very, very, very interesting conversation. We've kind of gone about our lifestyle factors in slightly different ways from a nutritional standpoint, but very interesting nonetheless. I learned a ton. I've got no doubt that you will take something from this step further. Delay, sit back, relax. Enjoy the conversation with Doctor Alex Pazzio Topolis. And we are live. How you doing today, Sir? I'm doing great, thanks for
having me on the show. Hey, I'm glad to have you man. So my audience is definitely interested in pursuing the fountain of youth. I feel like nutrition, lifestyle factors all come into play there, but you are leading the tip of the spear, so to speak, when it comes to anti aging. So I'd love to kind of learn more about what got you into this space and what all you've learned in the process.
Sure, it's kind of a long road for me, you know, I didn't go just standard route right to from undergrad to medical school. So I had a career before as a physician, I mean, as a as a builder and I get found my way into the yoga scene, became yoga teacher, did a lot of Ashtanga yoga and did some martial arts and Shaolin Kung Fu and found my way back to school with neuroscience and biochemistry.
And I used to follow a guy doctor Michael Colgan, you know, before I went to Med school and I used to read life extension magazine a lot. And so that really got me interested in that like, you know, you could live a healthier, more optimized life and, you know, and that you could live longer. And so he used to follow Doctor Colgan for a while, even took his supplements. And you know, the Colgan Institute still in existence, they help like optimize athletes.
They still do a great job of that. And then he was one of the contributors to the American Academy of Anti Aging Medicine in the very early days. Now it's a huge organization and they've, you know, thousands and thousands of physicians have become functionally medicine trained to do hormones and you know, lots of anti aging stuff like that. So I went while I was a Med student, I started the fellowship for anti aging knowing that I couldn't graduate there until I was done with the
residency and all that. So I kind of already knew what I wanted to do going into medicine. And, you know, and I did that and then I did a fellowship for stem cells and I did some for aesthetics and I did a lot of training in peptides. And then what I've been doing lately is I speak mostly on what's called medical maintenance engineering. And what that is, is medicine the way that medicine's practiced today.
And you know, it's starting to change a little bit, but majority of it is you wait till there's a problem and then you treat the problem. You don't really make the problem go away. You treat it. And if you look to the way engineers do things, they do it a lot differently. Like when you get onto an airplane, that airplane has to go through all of these checks and balances, right? So like, they know like how long those engines can run for before they need to be rebuilt.
They know what needs to be checked at what intervals, right? And that let's have checklists and they have all these checklists up in the tower. The guys on the ground have to do all this kind of stuff. So airplanes are really tightly controlled. So even if you have an old aircraft, it still has to meet the same criteria as a new one. And that way people don't die.
So you would think that like, OK, we have this great maintenance engineering so that we know we have these algorithms, we know what to check, we know when to check it. You know, we know what parameters these things need to be at so that they're at their optimal functioning capacity, but it's not applied to humans. And you know, arguably the human being is the most complex machine there is.
And so to not use maintenance engineering protocols and algorithms with the most complex machine is silly. And the other thing that is done, and NASA is really great at this. Have you ever heard of like single points of failure? So a single point of failure will cause like a billion dollar project for NASA to be thrown away, right? And so they're always saying, OK, there's 200 and some single points of failure in this
project. And they list them all and they're like, what can we do to to minimize those failures? So those are the same things that happened to humans. And the number one single point of failure for a human being is a heart attack. And you know, we have more than one heart attack per minute in the United States. And that's ridiculous, especially because we have testing now where, you know, it's a little bit pricey, it's about 1700 bucks. But it's your life.
And you can be sent and you get this thing called the clearly heart exam. And they will see whether or not your heart has blockages in the coronary arteries and to what extent. And not only what if, if they're blocked, what kind of blockages? Like are they calcified? Are they soft? Are they unstable? And then if there is some blockage, and then they run another report which is based on like 30-9 different parameters of whether or not you have what's called ischemia.
And ischemia is whether or not the blood supply and oxygen is actually getting to the organ of the heart at the microscopic level. So all of this can be done. And then the nice thing is if there's a problem there, well, there's either, you know, heart surgery or stents or, or there's medications, right? And with good medication care and good supplement care and changing your diet, you can actually reverse coronary artery disease. Doctor Dean Ornish was the first to show that.
Put people on a plant based diet and you have them do some medic, some meditation and some yoga and you measure how much coronary blockage there is now and then a year later there's less. So you know, we have all these things that can do that. And just like with the heart, we can do testing to see like if there's cancer that's early in your body, you know, if there's, if dementia is going to be creeping up on you, there's different markers to look for
plaques in the brain. It's just getting so well advanced. We can even measure the quality of your mitochondria. We can look at omic data to see like really detailed inflammation in your body. So it's a totally different level of care to do maintenance engineering on a person. So I don't even really call it anti aging because that's kind of old terms that were like 25 years ago. So what we found is that anti aging was all about can we slow down aging?
And the answer is yes, but not that much. The real thing is to reverse the process of aging and that's what's coming in the future. There's some ways that we can do it now with certain stem cells and peptides and things like that. And there's certain medications that can help get rid of like the cells that are synolytic that cause you to age really fast. But the real boost is coming in the near future, and that's going to be like genetic changes.
You'll be able to get new genes inserted into you. You'll be able to change the way that RNA functions in your cells. So we want to be able to live a little longer so we can live even longer. So there's this thing called escape velocity that when we reach it, you won't age anymore. But we're not there yet. We can extend your lifespan a little bit, maybe 15% somewhere around there, but we can really increase your health span. The average person is like last 10 years of their life is not so
great. It's in a decrepit state and we can probably compress that down to a year. So following all these protocols and getting your checks and balances done at the right time, getting your hormones balanced, getting on the right supplements, the right medications, you know, getting on a really good diet for yourself, all these things and the right kind of exercise. So, and then getting it tested so that you know, whether or not it's working well for you or not, that buys you time.
And if you can buy yourself five years, in five years we're going to have better stuff. And in five years after that, we'll have better stuff than that. Why do you think our society has placed like just this shift in approaches such so that it's much more reactionary as opposed to looking at the single point of failures, failures and kind of addressing it from more of an engineering approach? I don't really think it's like a conspiracy or anything like that, I just think it's money. Yeah.
You know a. Lot more money in sick care than health care. It's kind of what happens in corporate, right? Like how are we going to make money next quarter, right? And, you know, the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies pretty much run everything. So doctors have to. And nothing against doctors, right? Like the doctors are trying to get through a day and a doctor's
day is pretty rough. Like they're seeing way too many patients because there's kind of a doctor shortage for how many people there are. And so they're seeing too many people and they're not having enough time to see them. And then the insurance isn't going to pay for the things that they really want to do, like this. Clearly heart exam is not being paid for by insurance, but they'll pay for tests that are more expensive, that give you
worse data. So there's just a lot of stuff that just needs to be reworked and, you know, not conspiracy, but like if the insurance company has to pay out a certain amount of money over the whole year, they profit a percentage of all that. So the more money that they have to pay out, the more money they're making, right? Because they just raise the premiums and stuff for that. And then the doctors, they have to like code things properly so
they can get reimbursed. And if they want to sit down with somebody like, you know, I really need to sit down with this person for an hour, one, they don't have the time to do it and then they won't get reimbursed. And if they try to code for something and the insurance company says that no, that's not cool and they get audited, they can actually get fined. So, you know, most of the physicians are kind of scared to, to, to be, you know, coding
things not normally, right? And sitting down for people more or, or ordering things that they know probably won't be covered, you know, or ordering too many lab tests And they'll say, why did you order all this? What is your reasoning and like it? It's ridiculous that the doctors would have to justify themselves to an insurance company and not to another like group of physicians. What is going to be the turning point then?
If there's this, you know, incentive for from a financial standpoint to kind of keep things going as they are, what would be the the catalyst to get the ship to turn the other direction? Well, I think 1 of it is just that we have a lot more functionally medicine trained doctors now. So the Institute for Functional Medicine, we have the American Academy of Anti Aging Medicine, and there's a couple other spin off groups that are smaller.
And so more physicians are moving over to cash pay, getting away from insurance and they're having more time to spend with patients so that they can have time to talk about how are you sleeping? What are your relationships like? What kind of stress do you have? What are you eating right? How are you moving? Normally, a physician has no time to talk about any of that. And the other thing is they didn't learn any of that in medical school. They spent no time teaching us
any of that, right? And the curriculum in medical school, you know, most likely was influenced by the pharmaceuticals and the insurance companies, you know, rather than real science. Because lifestyle Trump's everything. You know, if you have a really great lifestyle and you're not a stressed person, you're probably not going to have many issues in your life.
Yeah, no, I totally agree. I'm curious when it comes to increasing lifespan and and health span, you know, always kind of raises the question like if we were to in theory reach this escape velocity and people aren't dying at the rate they are now, but they're continuing to have babies at the rate they are now. Like what happens on a population basis? Like would we be able to sustain that? And it's a pretty massive question, but just curious of your thoughts.
No, it's a, it's a really great question and you know, people get really worried about it. I can, I'll back it up with a story in the past. So this is not a new question. It's come up a bunch of times in history. It came up in the UK. When the UK population hit a million people, they all freaked out because the forests were all cut down, the River Thames was totally polluted and they were all complaining that there was too many people. And it wasn't that there was too many people.
And so they didn't have the technology necessary to handle that many people. Right now we have better energy systems. We don't have to cut down trees, right? We can take care of the water in a much better way. And so the same thing goes to larger populations. You just need better technology to handle the population. The Earth can handle tons of people. It's just how we do it. Like where are we going to get the food from? How are we going to deal with waste?
How are we going to create our power? So if we move more to sustainable power systems like nuclear, you know, you can make all the power you want if they ever get, if they ever get the answer to fusion, then you have all the energy you ever need and you have really no waste. And even regular fission is so clean. But because of the oil and gas companies, they made nuclear look so dangerous, which is not it's sexually safer. And so, you know, they kind of cornered that.
But all of that's going to turn around in the future and we'll get much cleaner energy, much more energy, you know, with lab grown meats. Now those are going to take off. And I think in the future they're going to actually be better than regular. And then you don't have to like waste all this land and all this water and all these GMO crops to
feed these animals, right? We'll be, we're already better at creating vegetables in an aquaponic and hydroponic environment to increase their nutrition. So I think that we'll be able to sustain tons and tons of people and they won't be overcrowding. You know, though the housing will be better, everything will be better. The big issue is that we're actually going through a population collapse and population collapse would be
terrible for the world. Most of the industrialized countries don't have more than 2.1 children for each couple, and it's way below that in many. And that population collapse is really the real issue in the future. Yeah, I've read about that. I've had a few people on the podcast talking about the decline in population. I think there's only two countries or something like that right now with the populations actually growing. Yeah. You know, it's, it's a it's a
real concern, right. And then, you know, we want to make and then of the of the populations that are growing, not those countries, but like the educated people are not populating. It's mostly coming from the uneducated. So that's an issue too, right, Especially with the state of education in the country. And hopefully, you know, some of these bureaucracies will get fixed. When you have a collapse in education and you don't educate the population, you have real
big problems. Every single superpowers run into this. Keeping everyone educated is what keeps the playing field level and keeps these major casts from being formed. But we're headed towards like, real poor and real rich. What do you think the like when you when you look forward into the future? Like at what? Any idea as to what time period would be like this dramatic shift?
Is there going to be like a just a gradual shift overtime or is there going to be like this cataclysmic event that just forces change? And as far as medicine? Yeah, medicine, population, you know, productivity, food, education that we can, we can go all different kind of facets with this. I don't know. I mean, I think that in this century we are going to see
unbelievable change. I think AI is going to drive a lot of it. But I also just think that we're on the brink of changing so many different place, like the scientific venues, right? So when it comes to genetic engineering, we're, we're getting so much more information and we're learning so much everyday. There's a whole bunch of new genetic companies.
I started a company called the Institute for Medical Maintenance Engineering. And I've got a bunch of really rock star individuals on the Advisory Board. Liz Parrish is one of them and she's really leading the charge with her company called Bio Viva. She's already injected herself with four different genes and you know, she's lengthened her telomeres, she's increased her
muscle mass without working out. You know, I mean, like, it's really amazing what this genetic therapy will be able to do. And it's already available. It's just really expensive and it's just going to get cleaned up. So I would say in the next 5 years, there's going to be really awesome genetic therapy. In 20 years, it's going to be pretty much mainstream. So there. And then there's other companies that are working on like micro
RNA and interference RNA. So, so all of that's going to create all these major changes to biological systems without having to take supplements or pharmaceuticals or things like that. So I think in the really near future, we're going to have some really big changes, which is why I'm always on people that, you know, the people like in their sixties, 70s and 80s, I really pushed them to do like the
highest package that we have. You know, where you're doing all the age reversal and all the technology that we have to try to slow your aging down, reverse types of aging, get rid of scent analytic cells, optimize your tissue. Because every year that you can buy yourself, you're buying yourself into the future where all these new things are going to be. And then those will buy you some time. And so maybe they can ride that out for quite a while. What?
What did your personal fascination for this come from? Is there any like something happened in your youth or what? What was your personal reason for wanting to pursue this field to begin with? That's a good question. I don't know. It's just I've always wanted to do something useful. So like when my dad was alive, you know, he's always just like, find something to do that you have the gift for. Find something that you do that
you have passion for. And if you, if you can do both of those things together, you don't really work right. And you'll be really good at it. You won't really work and you'll get you'll get a lot of joy out of it. And so I was always pretty science minded as a kid and I was always a tinkerer. So I like that. I didn't really know exactly what I wanted.
But you know, after I got exposed to yoga and Kung Fu, what I noticed was that people drastically changed their lives for the better whenever they came in. Like they got healthier, their mindset was better, right? And so just doing those things was, you know, really life changing for people. And then, you know, I'm like, OK, this is great. There's a lot of yoga teachers. There's a lot of martial artists. You know, I want to be able to do something more.
I want to be able to do something medically. I want to keep using these techniques. But what else can I do? And then, you know, I was a little, I really didn't want to go into medicine in the beginning because I just felt that medical doctors were just not really making good decisions, like engineers, you know, and, you know, they just had to follow a certain
protocol. And it's just not what I wanted to do. But then when I learned that, like, you know, I didn't have to take insurance and that I could just hang my own shingle and do things my own way and, you know, then I was like, oh, well, all right, there's my calling right now. I can blend all this stuff together and, you know, gather data and show people that this really does work. And that's what we do here,
right? And you know, when people come in, we do this thing called the discovery process, which they do in maintenance engineering. And they see where they're at, right? They see how they're sleeping. You know, they see the effect of their diet, they see their lab scores, they see their inflammation, they see where their hormones are, right? And then we get regular data from them, like, you know, how strong are you And you know, what's your fitness? Like what's you know, and get
all these parameters. And then a year later, we sit down and we look at all these parameters, including like the length of the telomeres and like all these biological clocks. And they see their biological clocks go down, that they're aging at a slower rate. They see their inflammation's down, They see their hormones are better. They look at their body composition, it's improved,
their sleep's improved. And so that really gives me great fulfilling, you know, kind of life that I'm able to help these people. There is one caveat though, and that's that I call it a radical willingness. If people don't have radical willingness, which we interview everyone for now before they join the clinic. And we call it an institute because it's a place of learning. So they're constantly have to learn more and more and we give them little modules to learn.
But if they don't have the radical willingness to like, want to learn and want to change their lifestyle and take supplements and do all these types of things, it's really not for them. I used to let everyone join, but now I don't. Now I just have this interview and I tell them what's involved. And I'm like, does this sound like something that's interesting to you that you would want to devote your time to?
And, and most people say yes, but before I had this interview, I would get people that would be overwhelmed and they wouldn't want to do things and then the, the program wouldn't work as well. So I think the interview is
really a great place to start. And, and I think it's for everybody like that wants to change their life, that they need to have radical willingness to do it because if you don't, you're not going to overcome all your behavior because behavior is really hard to change unless you really want to do it. No, I totally agree with that. What, what do you think?
Like in working with people over the years, what do you find to be the most limiting behavior that's just a common denominator across the people that you've that you've seen over the time? The number one behavioral trait that really gets people is anxiety. Yeah. It's crippling, and some of the anxiety is passed down through generations. It's epigenetically modified. There's a really interesting epigenetic experiment, and it just opened my eyes up to anxiety and fear.
They take a female mouse and they put her in a maze and the floors got the capacity to shock her. And so she's just running around this maze and they put it in a tiny little red fire hydrant. When she sees a little red fire hydrant, they give her a shock. And they do this just a couple of times, and then they stop shocking her. But every time she sees a red fire hydrant, she jumps. And then they take the red fire hydrant out and they don't put
it back in again. And she has children, and then those children have children, and it goes down to the 7th generation. And for those seven generations, they haven't seen the red fire hydrant. Only the first female saw the red fire hydrant. The 7th generation mouse walking around the maze. They put the little red fire hydrant back in and it jumps. Wow, that's crazy. Right.
So, you know, I think that's one thing I try to teach the patients is that, you know, a lot of your anxiety and fears, they're probably not even yours. And, you know, I think that gives people a little bit more strength that like I can overcome this and to get to get to challenge their thoughts. I said a lot of people, the doctor Joe Dispenza to go to his retreats because I think he's really great at helping people reprogram the way that they talk about themselves to themselves,
right? The meditations are great, but really changing yourself talk is massive and I don't think people really understand like how often they're speaking I'll of themselves or of the closest people next to them and how much that affects their health. If you can change yourself talk, I think that that's really the most important thing you can do to really start changing behavior. The other thing that we do is I like to use Doctor Jordan Peterson's tools that he has online.
So he has two fantastic tools. One of them is called understandmyself.com and the other one is selfauthoring.com. And I have people start with Understand myself because it gives them the big 5 of their personality with a really detailed explanation. And So what I tell people is that once you do that, you understand how you're filtering reality. You know, because your personality is going to filter the truth of what you're
experiencing. And once you know how that filter works, then you have a better idea of what the truth really is. As long as you constantly kind of, you know, be be diligent and you know, make sure that you're taking a look at reality the way it is. And then self authoring is a really fantastic package. The patients that have done it and what what they usually come back to me with is that that was better than two years of therapy because they had to process all the stuff in their past.
They had to process all the things in the present and then they had to create what they wanted out of the future. Like what is my purpose? What am I going to be doing? How do I want to maximize the amount of time I have left in my life? And that changes everything because now they have all this purpose and they have a plan. It just makes all the other behavior changes so much easier.
Yeah, no, I totally agree there. I think a lot of people go through life, they drift through life with no sense of purpose or plan. And so much time is wasting, so much opportunity, so much sense of fulfillment is just gone. Oh yeah, I mean, like, how can you, how can you get out of bed if you don't know why you're getting out of bed? Yeah, exactly. You think you're going to live forever? I don't know, I'd say the odds are against it, but there's a possibility, right?
And so I, I would love to live and because I think that, I mean, you could live for millions of years and you'd still wouldn't get to do everything, you know, I mean, there's, there's just so much knowledge available. There's even just on this planet, you know, like people will say like, oh, I've been to that country. Like, what percentage of that country? Like, you know what I mean? Like laid out on the map, like how many streets you walked, right?
Or like where you went in that place. It's just a tiny fraction of these places to visit, right? And to do things and all the hobbies and all the things to learn. So like, it's endless. And then, you know, we'll be exploring other worlds than this. So yeah, there's so much to live. For the people that can afford it. I highly suggest doing cryonics. Cryonics has been around for over 50 years and over the last five years it's really gotten good.
How what cryonics is, is basically preserving yourself in a frozen state after you die. And this whole idea that you're dead after 5 minutes is so silly. Think about like organs. You know, if somebody donated a kidney in China and it's sent, you know, over to the US to be placed into somebody, that kidney when it was taken out is technically dead, right? Because there's no blood supply to it and there's no oxygen supply to it.
And it's just put in this standard Styrofoam container, you know, with, with, you know, and kept cold but not frozen. And then it's shipped here. And then you plug it into the new person in surgery and voila, the kidney starts right back up. So those cells weren't dead. So when they say that you're dead, you're really not right. Those cells go into a dormant
type of stasis. There were some medical students that went to this pig farm and where they slaughtered the pigs and the pigs heads were in the corner and they're like, when were these pigs slaughtered? And they told them the time they took the pigs heads back to the lab and they hooked the heads back up to a heart lung machine to re establish the oxygen and blood supply and they put electrodes on the brain and they got a normal brain signature after these pigs have been dead
for hours. So dead's not really dead. And so you have plenty of time to be frozen and the new types of freezing, they drain your blood out, they replace it with like a biological antifreeze, kind of similar to like how frogs have biological antifreeze that's naturally in their in their body and how they can freeze frozen for the whole winter and then they just thaw out in the spring and jump around. So we're using a little bit different chemicals in these companies.
Probably one of the most famous ones is Alcor down in Arizona. But there's one there's like there's one up in California, there's another in Detroit. There's a bunch, there's one in Russia, there's one in China. So they're popping up all over the place now. And you can even get a life insurance policy and then sign over the life insurance policy to the company so that the cost of it is covered by your life insurance because your life insurance policy now doesn't do
anything to protect your life. That money just goes to somebody else after you die. But now you can use a life insurance policy to actually preserve your life by, you know, paying for you to be frozen. And then, you know, we don't have the ability to bring you back out now. But as long as those tissues have been preserved without fractures, you know, from crystal formation, the people in the future should be able to bring us back.
And what what do you think? Is there any estimated time as to when that would be feasible? So I would say almost all of the research has been going into how to freeze people. Only recently in the last couple years have they really been starting to turn to how are we going to thaw these people out? Because I think we're, we've almost got it down to where there's not going to be that much better of a freezing
technique in the future. I'm sure they were going to improve it, but they don't really need to because they've got it down to the point where there's not a lot of cellular damage and there's not a lot of damage to DNA, especially the membranes. So now it's going to be how do we thaw these people out? But more than that, what they have to figure out is you can't thaw somebody out until you can figure out how to fix what killed them.
Otherwise you're just going to bring them back to die again. So that's where the future technology is going to be really focused on, you know, how do we fix these different problems? And it'll be at all these different levels. Some of those things will be, you know, solved in the next few years. Some of those things might take 100 years, just depending on the level of complexity. You know, say somebody died from a metastatic, you know, stage 4 cancer that got all over their body.
That's going to be a really difficult thing to bring somebody back from, right? But you know, it's just a problem. So that should be able to be solved somewhere in the future. Have there been any willing volunteers that are totally healthy that are down to freeze themselves in a healthy state and then let enough? I'm sure there are people, but they don't allow it. So it's just part of the policies of these companies.
You know, what would be great is if they could freeze you, you know, when when you're on your deathbed, right before you actually die, Like if they were to give you like, you know, euthanasia, which is, you know, outlawed in most of the states. But you know, you got someone who's really suffering and they
have no quality of life left. Like I'm all for that, Especially like if you give them that promise of being frozen, you know, and some people say it's an empty promise, but like if you're buried or cremated, you have a zero percent chance of coming back. If you're frozen and you have a chance of coming back, we don't know what the percentage is, but it's actually on the table. Like you can come back. Like, you know, it's theoretically possible.
So I think it's great. Especially like, you know, you got these kids that have a terrible cancer and you know, they're not going to live till their 8th birthday or something like that. Well, why not freeze them, right? Because one, it makes them feel a little bit better. It makes the parents feel better. Because, I mean, it would make me feel better if I had a child that was frozen versus a child that was buried in the ground. Well, now I have hope.
The other one, all I can do is have faith. I'd rather have hope. Yeah. Do you think with regards to the, the the services of freezing what, what, what is the cost of that now I guess I'm assuming pretty cost prohibitive for the the masses? It is and that's why that life insurance policy makes sense, right? Because the masses all have an opportunity to get a life insurance policy right? And then you just sign that over cash pricing. I think you know, they're all different.
The most expensive 1 is about 250,000 for your full body. They will also just do your head for like 80 grand thinking that you know they'll give you a new body when you come back. Some of the other companies are a lot cheaper cheaper. It just depends on where you're looking. Because I'm assuming if they were to figure out how to bring you back, like you're pretty much brought back in the physical state that you were in when you got frozen to begin with. So if you were the.
Technology. Yeah, like if you're doing it at the on your deathbed and you're elderly, then you may be resuscitated at some point in the future when they've got the technology to do so, but you're still in your old version body. Yeah, and that's where regenerative medicine comes into
into play and age reversal. So the advancements in stem cells, the advancements in genetics and in, you know, micro RNA and the other interfering molecules, I think that's where the big changes are going to be made so that like you'll basically grow a new body. Benjamin Button for real. Benjamin Button for real? Yeah.
Do you fear death? I don't fear death, but I don't want it. I just think that, you know, we're the 1st generation that ever had the chance to even really dream about it, you know, with any kind of like scientific backing. But the state of health in the world is horrible. And even the people that are trying to be healthy, they are so full of toxins, it's not even
funny. One of the one of the tests that we do here every year on people is we do a really detailed test that includes like heavy metals and pesticides and herbicides and volatile compounds like from all the emissions that are thrown into the air. Different types of plastics and you would be surprised to see how toxic people really are.
And so that's something that you know, your lifestyle is not going to change all that much unless you like, you change where you're eating and what water you're drinking and are you filtering your air? But what if you live in a crazy urban area and you're walking around? You're going to get exposed, right? So we do a lot of detox and the detoxes work really well and they're tailored to the toxins that are inside someone. One of the things people can do really to help minimize their
toxins is sauna. The infrared saunas tend to work a little bit better for detox than regular sauna. And it really, I mean, they both work really well. Don't get me wrong. When you're doing infrared, what happens is your core body temperature goes up faster than in a hot sauna because the infrared's kind of cooking you
from the inside. Think about like you ever been somewhere where it's like, I don't know, 3540° but it's really bright and sunny out up in the mountains and you walk outside with a T-shirt and you're like, oh, I feel warm. And it's the infrared heat from the sun that's going through your skin and it's heating you up from the inside, right when you're in a hot room, just the, the hot air touching your skin and you breathing it is what's warming you.
So it takes a little longer for your core body temperature to go up. So if you were to do like a 20 to 30 minute sauna, your core body temperature would be at a higher temperature in the infrared than it would be in the hot sauna. And then if you stayed in there for longer than 30 minutes, then your core body temperature goes up higher in the hot sauna because it's like like 200°
versus the other. But if you want someone to do sauna on a regular basis and you need to do it about 3 * a week for about 20 to 30 minutes for it to really have a change in your toxin profile and for it to increase heat shock proteins, which help the folding of proteins. So it's just easier to do infrared, plus it's easier for someone to acquire an infrared for their home. Right. I found that like the people that don't have it in their home, it's just not convenient
enough. Yeah, no, I completely agree. I'm in the market for one right now. I got to get one. I I really like high tech health company. I did. They're out of Boulder. I've done a lot of research on all the infrared saunas. Look at their technology. They have really the best emitters that are out there because they don't have near infrared which can be damaging to the body and they have really low EMF which we don't want a lot of that either. And their wood that they use has
no off gassing. So they only use Poplar or hemlock and no glues, no plywood, no nothing like that because those all off gas toxins. What about nutritionally speaking? Like, what would you like? Know what you know? How do you structure your own personal dietary choices? Yeah, I'm a little extreme for myself, but I I did it mostly when I was first getting into yoga. I had a yoga teacher, Shannon, Shannon Gannon out of New York, Jiva Mukta Yoga, and she proposed a question.
She just said to me, every time you do something, just ask yourself, do I agree with this? Whether it's words coming out of your mouth, whether it's food going in your mouth, whether it's an action you take or a car you drive or whatever it is, right? And I was out with friends and we were just going to get a steak burrito like we've done. I, I don't know how many nights in a row at late night. And I'm sitting there, I'm like, OK, I'm looking at this burrito
and like, do I agree with it? And I was just like, hell no. And I'm like, I know that these animals were probably not cared for very well because, you know, came from like a cheap place, right? So I'm sure that they were fed GMO grain. I'm sure that the water wasn't really well regulated. I'm sure there was pesticides and herbicides and growth hormones involved. I'm sure there were soil erosion.
I'm sure that the animals weren't kept in a very ethical way or killed in a very ethical way, right? So I'm like, OK, so environmentally is a disaster, ethically is a disaster. And I know that this is not very healthy for me, right? And so I was like, well, what's the benefit? And I'm like, well, I like the taste. And so I had a kind of a revelation there and I was just like, OK, how can I change? You know what, I'm going to eat so that I don't have these
issues, right? And So what I, I decided that I was just going to go plant paste there. And I've been plant based ever since. That said, I think that to do a plant based diet, you have to really be knowledgeable about how you're getting your nutrition. I've seen so many people fail a plant based diet because they didn't really know what to eat. And the other thing is people usually like to eat based on how
full they get. And when you switch over to plant based, you have to eat a much larger volume of food to get the same macro nutrients. You're going to get way more micronutrients, but your macro nutrients you're going to need to eat more volume. I find that this is a little bit more sensitive to females than males. They're a little bit more sensitive to how much food they're actually putting in their stomach. And when they feel full, they don't want to eat anymore.
And like, you know, if you're used to eating like chicken or beef or something like that, you're just it's, it's macro nutrient dense. And if you're eating plants and you're not getting a lot of beans and, and you know, other forms or soy and things like that, you're going to be protein deficient. So it can be done really well. One of the other reasons I really like plant based is in age reversal medicine. What we found is it's not,
there's a lot of factors. So one of the things that we're trying to do is we want to lower what's called mtor. And it's the molecular target of rapamycin. And if you're, if you're a strength athlete or a bodybuilder, you want to kind of turn mtor up. And the analogy is kind of like a a candle. So if I light the candle at both ends, it's going to burn really bright, but it's not going to burn for very long, right?
And so there's a lot of ways that we can Jack up our metabolism, but we pay the price long term. So the one study that shows that you can extend life from a single celled Organism through worms, insects, reptiles, mammals all the way through that's never failed is calorie restriction. When you restrict calories around 15 to 20%, you can really increase lifespan and increase health span and decrease single points of failure.
And, you know, we have a really long term study like over 40 years, University of Wisconsin and macaque monkeys and they have less dementia, less Gray hair, less osteoporosis, less, you know, pains and aches. I mean, like they're, it works, but it's really difficult to do calorie restriction, right? Like you have to like count all your calories to the, you know, and be really accurate about it. And then you end up being a little bit gaunt, right? You don't have like a really
great frame to you. So there's some issues with calorie restriction, but there's a lot of things that we've learned from it, from all of the data. And one of the things that we've learned is that it depends on the kind of calories as well. So if you get a lot of calories from amino acids like methionine and leucine, those turn up the metabolic rate a little bit too high.
And sulfur amino acids like methionine, they change your pH and they make it harder for your body to maintain an alkaline pH and so that causes more calcification to arteries and dystrophic calcifications in the brain and things like that. So when you go plant based, you decrease your methionine and you decrease your leucine almost automatically without really trying that hard. So that's another benefit of it.
But again, you know, if you don't, if you don't really know how to balance it, you could be thrown off. But it has really great benefit. And the other benefit, like I talked about earlier was Doctor Dean Ornish, you know, of they've tried all kinds of diets on coronary artery, you know, blockages. And the only one that worked was a plant based diet. That's the only one that
reversed the disease. So that's I, I really like plant based for that reason, but you have to really educate people and it also takes a little bit of time for them to get used to it because you have to change your microbiome. And. When you start changing your diet, the microbiome that's present is going to fight against that diet, right? And you're not going to feel very well, but once it changes, then you're going to feel really great. Yeah, I know it's super
interesting. I definitely agree with you in that a lot of people that have gone the plant based route or missing some key components, they're not getting the complete spectrum nutrients they need. Often times they become they lose a lot of lean tissue. You know, I'm doing pretty much the exact opposite of you. I'm pretty much all animal based. I'm doing, you know, keto have
now for 10 years. But I agree with you and the desire to do something that's right for the environment, right from an animal welfare standpoint. I hunt a lot. So I'm getting high quality animals that are fed the most natural diet possible And it's not, you know, negatively impacting, you know, through like mono cropped agriculture and things of that nature. So I totally agree with you in wanting to pursue that way of,
you know, sustainable. I mean I have data in the clinic too that the people that eat wild animals, their profiles are totally different than farm raised. Yeah, I believe it for the better, I'm assuming. It is night and day, yeah. So if you're going to eat meat, the best meat to eat is wild. Yeah, no, I totally, completely agree there. And I also, I tried to incorporate, you know, strategic periods of time in a caloric
deficit. Like when I'm doing a competition prep for bodybuilding, I'm obviously putting myself in a deficit, you know, losing a ton of body fat. I can't sustain that indefinitely. So I'll kind of have a yin Yang approach with periods of time in a deficit, periods of time at a surplus from a metabolic and hormonal standpoint. But I feel like a lot of people spend far too much time in one or the other, and that leads to a lot of poor health outcomes. Oh yeah, And you know, I have, I
have a pro bodybuilder. I have a bunch of other bodybuilders in the clinic. I try to keep them as healthy as I can. And, you know, we've had a lot of discussions about, you know, 'cause they go over their labs and they can see the difference in the different cycles of where they're at, right? And they can see the stress that bodybuilding puts on their body, especially like, you know, inflammatory and in, in the biological clock spectrum, right? But I try to just make a deal
with them. I'm like, compete for a certain amount of time and then start competing less as you get older because, you know, the older you get, the faster you get old. And we know, like from a recent study, that there's two major events in your life that make you age really fast. Once 1 is in your early 40s and one is one, right? You get to about 60 and you just go through this massive change where you age really quickly with the bodybuilders.
I just the fluctuation up and down is a high stress on their body and the very high protein ends up over stimulating the metabolic cycle. And it's like like doctor Michael Koge has talked about this a lot. You only have so many enzyme cycles in a lifetime. Like you can only make so many enzymes, right? Like there's kind of a limit to that and it's not fully true. But like you, your metabolism is what makes you age, but your metabolism is what makes you stay alive, right?
So we can't stop metabolism, but we can slow it down, right? And, and it's not the answer to aging because the answer to aging is in reversing it and causing you to repair all the damage, right? So it's, we want to do a little bit of both. So we're trying to use some of the things that help us repair right now and some of the things that help us slow down South. If you can maintain your muscle mass with the least amount of protein that you can find, do
that, right? Because if you're just taking a whole bunch of extra protein, but you're not really noticing gains, then it's just going to go to waste and it's going to cause damage, right? And it's going to end up over stimulating mtor and all these other types of things. So I just try to get them to dial it in. Now their sport in general, you need higher protein.
You just do right? Or you're not going to be able to like repair from your workouts and you're not going to be able to keep lean tissue on and things like that. But we can also measure to see like when are you getting too much? And some of those things you can see like in kidney tests, you can see like blood area nitrogen and you can see like how well are you balancing nitrogen, right? Because you just don't want too much that you can't use. I'm a big proponent of amino
acids. I like that a little bit better because you're a little bit more targeted. And the other thing that you can do is it's a really old supplement. It's called ornithine alpha ketoglutarate. One of the anti aging supplements is calcium alpha ketoglutarate. It's expensive and I don't, I don't use it because if you use OK G, which is cheap and you can use it in really high amounts, you'll get enough alpha ketoglutarate to help you with
anti aging. And the really cool thing about ornithine alpha ketoglutarate, it was created by French doctors for burn patients. When you're a burn patient, you're releasing way too much nitrogen into the system and it messes around with your kidney and your liver. And So what OK G does is it helps you recycle all that
nitrogen. And so I find it for the bodybuilders and just anybody working out in general, taking it right after your workout and then fasted before you go to bed, you'll notice like you repair faster, you feel better and your labs get better. Now one thing I do think the bodybuilders have got going in their favors that they have more lean tissue and why that is more metabolically demanding.
Just anecdotally speaking to people that I have encountered in life that have seemingly more muscle as they age tend to live a much higher quality of life. Oh yeah, 100% right. Part of the protocols here are strength protocols. I try to get even my bodybuilders to do more strength than pure hypertrophy training. And the reason being strength training, you're going to do lower reps, higher weight.
As long as you have a really good form and you know how to brace your core, you're not going to get hurt. Whereas, you know, traditional hypertrophy training, you're going to do more sets and more reps and that tends to have a little bit more metabolic demand and more cellular damage. So if they can get the same hypertrophy out of strength
training, I highly suggest that. Not that you're not going to do some, you know, kind of cross between the two, But if you can do more strength training, you tend to have less damage. And, you know, in a seasoned athlete, I don't think you're going to have that much of a difference in hypertrophy. And stronger people are just, you know, like Mark Ripto says they're hard to kill. Yeah, for sure.
What do you think from a psychological standpoint is going to happen if we reach this escape velocity and death is no longer on the table? Like how do you think that will shift people's overall mentality going through life? Like I feel like for me personally, knowing that there is an end to my life, I try and make all the more time to focus and cherish on the moments that I have on this planet. Do you think that will shift for the better or worse if people
live forever? Yeah, I mean, it's a really cool question. The funny thing is, so there's a an old, old book from the Vedas, and it's a story called the Mahabharata. And in the Mahabharata, the protagonist is asking one of the sages. He's like, what's one of the most wondrous things, you know? And he said one of the most wondrous things I know is that every single person knows that they're going to die one day, but they don't live their life like that.
They always live their life like they're going to live forever, right? And that's what I normally see with people, even when I'm talking to them, like over at lunch or I'll meet somebody new and stuff like that. Like they never find it pressing to start doing the type of medicine that we're doing because they're they're like, oh, I'll do it another day. And it's like, you're 75 years old. How many days do you have left?
Right. So I don't think that the most people actually think that they're going to die like they know it, but they're they live their life like they're going to live forever. And like you'll see most people die and their estate is in a mess, right? They really knew that they were going to die one day. Like they'd have their will in order, they'd have their estate all in order, right? They'd have things prepared for like how they wanted to be, you know, at the end.
But people really don't live like that. When I think what's going to happen is when people start living an extraordinarily long life, and not even that they live forever, but let's just say like, they start living to be 150, right? They're going to care more about the world that they live in because they're going to live long enough to see those changes, right? They're going to live long enough to see that tree grow. You know they're going to live long enough to see like this,
pollution destroy the river. Right. They're going to see long enough to see like these impacts on their environment. And so I think they'll care more about the world that they live in because they're going to actually see those changes in their lifetime. But I don't really know, like the rest of it. I, I think it's going to the world that we're going to be living in is going to be so drastically different than the one that we live in now. I mean, most of these jobs are
going to be gone to AI, right? People are going to have to find a whole different kind of purpose in life. We're going to have to find a way to like, have some kind of basic income for people. I mean, there's major, major problems coming up. So I don't know how lifespan is going to really play into that. I do think though, that living a longer life is going to be a benefit for all of humanity because the longer you live, you get hopefully you'll become more
wiser. And if we're able to keep you healthy and not, you know, just really old, you'll be able to contribute more. So if you don't, if you don't retire, I mean, just think about it, you know, you get to be 60 something years old, like you have a lot of wisdom from all the stuff that you've done in your life. And if you had the body of a 20 year old, how effective could you be, right? I mean, like, it's just
unbelievable. And then like if you were going to be the effectiveness of a 20 year old from 65 to like 110, I mean, like maybe you have three different careers that you're fantastic in. Yeah, no, I think the sky truly is the limit. I mean, we're on the precipice of some big changes, without a doubt. So it'll be very interesting to see what the, I mean, I've got a 2 1/2 year old and I've got one on the way.
So I'm very curious to see what the life they're going to be living in the next 50 years is going to look like for sure. Yeah, that'll be cool. You know, and I think there's always going to be a need for movement. Even if, you know, Liz Parrish's gene therapy keeps you strong and muscle bound without having to do any work, you still have to move to train your nervous system. You still have to move to just learn about your own body. And there, you know, you just feel good when you move.
So I think that's always going to be a necessary thing. I hope so. I hope so. Hope this, you know, advancement technology doesn't lead to a Society of, you know, just inundated people that I don't know, like they, they don't look, I, I think we need hard things in life, hardly like physically demanding things, mentally demanding things. We need hard things. It's like that's what has strengthened us as a species up
to this point. So hopefully that is able to be just amplified for positive and we don't lose touch of that as as time goes on. Exactly. I love it. I love it. Well, very, very insightful. I'm definitely going to have to keep an eye on your work and just see how all this unfolds because there's most definitely some exciting things in the pipeline that we'll see in our lifetime, much less those of our children. So it'll be it'll be curious to see what happens for sure. Yeah.
You know, and the whole thing about diet is get lab testing, somebody who's functional trained, you know, so that and then I get your microbiome checked from a a really good lab, which there's not very many of them. There's a lot of garbage microbiome testing out there.
So that's going to really give you the big picture, you know, what kind of microbiome you have is going to really determine like your health and you know, the the type of diet you got to see how it's affecting your Physiology are. There any microbiome tests that you personally recommend? Right now there's a company called Therium that is going to be having one and then there's another one.
There's another test for the micro, your mitochondria called Meescreen. And there's a company, you know, that's associated with them that's going to have one. But I would stick with their technology because it's the next kind of level to look at things. Most of the other microbiome testing is just really not that accurate. Not that not that it's useless. Meescreen is the mitochondria
test and Thorium their. Their test has omics testing and they're coming out with next generation testing for the microbiome. Nice, I will definitely check those out for sure. Yeah, those are great tests that you can actually get at home and just do a finger prick and you can really learn a lot about your health just with those two tests. Awesome. Well, I'm definitely an advocate for, you know, what can be measured can be managed, as I say.
So like, no, there's no sense in just this guessing. Mindless, you know, shooting in the dark, like actually get the lab drawn, get the test done. Yeah, I'm a huge advocate for that because if you don't know what you're, if you don't know where you're starting from, you can't possibly know where you're going. Yeah. And Charlotte, you know, I always try to get people to incorporate either fasting, mimicking diets or fasting every quarter for five days. They're just fantastic benefits
for that. You know, you can go. Walter Longo has most of the data on that. Yeah. That's awesome. And then, you know, keto diets are fantastic for certain things, right? If you have autoimmune disease, keto diets almost work every time, right? If you have certain types of cancer, keto diets are
absolutely fantastic for that. The only time that we have really issues with keto is over long periods of time, but you can see it in the labs before that rears its head and you'll get a little bit less power output when you're on keto versus when you have enough carbs. What kind of markers are popping up in the labs when you see people experiencing some adverse reactions to keto long term, we.
Mostly see it in the liver. So I see, I like to do full body Mris and sometimes I'll start to see more fat accumulating the liver and more inflammation in the liver. I'll start to see liver enzymes going up and I'll start to see kidney function decreasing. So it's just stuff that I've noticed over time. I also noticed that their biological clocks don't decrease as well as they do when they're plant based on a higher carbohydrate diet.
Interesting, I have to get some of these labs drawn and and take a look. I mean, every time I get blood markers done everything seems to be in check, but I've been doing that for 10 years. And everyone's different, right? I do have some guys on keto for different reasons and you know, I keep them really well balanced. Yeah, it's totally. No, it's all individual and it's really important to get labs right because we can't go off the way that we feel. We really can't.
Our feelings and our emotions are just not that accurate. Yeah, I definitely am a fan of getting the data and just knowing with certainty. So 100% on the same page will be there. This, this is good, this is good. Where do people go to find out more about you and just dive deeper into your world? My clinic is the Pazio Institute, Paz I/O. Then you just go to thepazioinstitute.com. It's really great information on the website there, different
memberships. They can fill out a form there and then we'll call them and have an interview with them. They explain everything we can and see if they're a really great candidate and they can join up. They can learn about the Institute for Medical Maintenance Engineering at immeglobal.com to see what some of the future stuff we're going to be doing.
That's going to be super interesting because all of our data is going to go into a data lake there and we've been training in AI and so that's just going to really improve everything that we're doing. Most of the age reversal clinics, they're not really collecting the data in the way that we're doing it so that we can see whether or not the protocols we're doing really are working and what can we do
better. We also have compliance data, so most people are on different supplements and medications and they're given all these bottles and they're given basically a, a hobby to do, right? Like, OK, you can take this fish oil, you can take this curcumin, you can take these medicines. We make it really simple and we put it into packaging. So they get these little packs and they get them throughout different times of the day and everything's in one little
package. And then, you know, they go out every month so we can keep track of their compliance so we know whether or not they've been taking their stuff or they haven't been taking their stuff. Yeah, that's super smart there. I like that. Yeah, it just makes it super simple because I don't want to give you a hobby of like, you know, you have to keep track of 15 different bottles of supplements and five different medications, you know? Yeah, totally. Just we'll, we'll take care of
that for you. All you have to do is open the pack and swallow it. Make it easy, less decision fatigue. Yeah, for sure. Right. And like you know, why do you want to waste your life ordering bottles and opening bottles? Yeah, well, awesome. I will definitely link out to all your sources, maybe each people to find you. We ought to do a follow up podcast in about 100 years because we'll both be around then, right? Sounds fantastic. Awesome. I certainly appreciate the time, Doctor.
I've learned a ton. And let's definitely keep in touch because I do want to keep a pulse on what's what all what was going on with the technology and where we're headed as a species. For sure love to catch up with you. Thank you Sir. Take care all. Right. Thanks again. Have a great one. You too.