What's going on? Ladies and gents Roberts? Thanks. Kiddo Savage.com. And today, I've got special guest to Kelsey boulter on the line, and she has an inspirational story that you're going to want to listen to. She has struggled with anorexia for a good portion of her life. She has gone through Clinic. She has gone through all kinds of work deep work in internal work to figure out what this, what caused this, how to resolve this and how to make progress going for them.
And this, this particular interview it Did a lot with me because I've had several clients that have struggled with this as of late and having the opportunity to talk with her and just dive deeper and learn more and understand what's going on for her personally. But then also, what could be going on for others that are that are dealing with these disordered eating Tendencies is something that I want to learn more about something that I've struggled with in some form of
fashion, my own life. It's something that I know many people do. So, really hearing her story hearing her story. Her be open, and authentic, and vulnerable was incredibly insightful and Incredibly inspirational. So I have no doubt. You will take something from this conversation. So that further Ado, sit back, relax and enjoy the podcast with Kelsey. We are live. Kelsey. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing wonderfully well, as well.
You are from South Africa. Is that correct? I am from Cape Town. South Africa, Cape Town, South Africa. I've got a few friends that have that live in South Africa. They're from South Africa. One of my buddies is a, he does, like a safari his family's been in the Safari business. Like they do, the guided hunts there, and they're in South Africa by don't know whereabouts, but South Africa is beautiful from everything.
I've heard it is. Have you ever been I've never been however, My folks are they just got a big sailboat? They're going to sail around the world and they're going to say oh quite a bit around South Africa. So I'm going to meet up with them at various ports along the way. So I'm going to spend some time inside of my gosh. So your Aunt Crystal and the new baby, you should try and come to Cape Town. It's so beautiful and it's like super nice for your, for the
exchange rate for the dollar. Yeah. Yeah. No, I definitely want to and everybody there. I mean, English is the primary language that, right? Yeah. I mean, we do. Also, there's also easy, causa, and Zulu and Afrikaans as well, but predominantly everyone, everyone speaks English. Well, if I can nice nice, so I shouldn't be able to kind of find my way around in an IV total. Total, you know, Darkness for me there which be good. 100% And I am the greatest tour guide.
So, you know, just reach out. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll take you up on that for sure. So I want to dive into your, your past, your upbringing a little bit with regard to what got you into the health and nutrition space. Because you're super passionate about it. You've got a very inspirational story and I feel like anybody that's gone through hell for lack of a better word and really figured out what it is that they do.
Don't want to do, they become so much more passionate about what it is. They do want to do because it's had such a profound impact on their lives and I feel like that is pretty much what's happened to you. Yeah, I mean, I couldn't have said it better myself. So I suppose I'll begin. I suppose, I was a kid as a kid. I was always just an extremely, anxious and shy and insecure
girl. And, you know, I was diagnosed with generalized, anxiety disorder and I had major separation anxiety from my parents. And in that regard, school was quite difficult, just emotionally for me. Not that I didn't have friends and I didn't do well in school, but just I Is was I was just personally, just very insecure. And my perception of the world was one of like fear and lack. And yeah, anyway, fast forward to when I finished school, I matriculated in 2014 and by that
time, I mean understandably. I had already developed very much. Yeah. I was just the perfect breeding down. Breeding ground for an eating disorder to manifest. Just given my Insecurity and anxiety as a kid by grade 10, actually, I had already developed bulimia and it was
very much in the in the dark. I didn't really speak out much about it. I mean my whole life also as a girl growing up, very susceptible to comparing myself to others and I always just had glorified being thin thinking that then, you know, would be the answer and if I was just thinner, then I'd be happier. So yeah.
Anyway, so I Finished school in 2014, and that's when for learner else to say, but like that's when shit, hit the fan because I suppose everything was sort of contained kind of in school, just because there was like a set structure in place and everyone is doing the same thing. And anyway, the minute I left school things just sort of fell apart I suppose. So in hindsight actually was planning on taking a gap year because during school.
I was always singing and writing music and playing the piano. A non-performing whenever I could. So I really was hoping to like take a gap year and just pursue my music but I didn't. I found myself just succumbing to the stigma that you need to get a degree. So I forced myself to go study at University and I couldn't even really last a semester by the end of the first semester. I had dug myself into a pretty deep hole emotionally.
And at the time, I was taking antidepressants and the psychiatrist that I was seeing at the time. I wanted to change over my medication. So she put me into the clinic and I mean, we can speak about medication, but I had horrific side effects and I straight off the bat admission actually into the clinic. I wean myself off, completely cold, turkey with antidepressants. And that's not a fun experience.
But anyway, I left the clinic and I still was very unsure of what I wanted to do. Very last, very broken. And so, I took the rest of that year.
My first year out of school. I took that rest of the year as a leave of absence from University and I found a photography course just to get me by and just to somehow find something creative because I suppose I've always just been a creative salt and then 2016 came and I was definitely not ready to go back to University. So I decided to take that as my
quote, unquote Gap here. However, I wasn't able to pursue my music just because emotionally I was in such a bad space and I didn't even really Want to sing or play music and that was like, kind of a big red flag for me. Just given that music has always played such a huge part of my life. So, anyway, I found a yoga instructors course, and I did that, and it was phenomenal,
very, very synchronistic. It started like the journey and planting the seed of, you know, sort of Consciousness and self-awareness and everything which was would play a huge role in my future life. So, I did that. And then, Then the end of 2016 was approaching and I was like, okay, well for 2017. I have to study something. I have to get a degree. So I thought to kill, what am I
going to do? And then I thought psychology would be a lot more congruent to who I was as a person also, because as a kid, I had gone to every specialist Under the Sun like psychiatrist after psychiatrist after psychologists often urologist. Because also as a kid, I also had major headaches which in hindsight, we're just tension headaches from Stress and Anxiety, so I thought given I was always just in therapy. I thought maybe study psychology and I started studying that in 2017.
However, I just feel more and more sick with anorexia to the point where it was, like, severely critical and I had to be hospitalized and I went into my first at a specialized clinic for eating disorders in 2017. Very soon after I'd started studying psychology and that Is a very very traumatic experience it. I like left their even more traumatized than when I went in and sure enough. I relapsed very soon after that and I found myself.
In fact, my parents didn't really know what to do with me. So they set up a psychiatric like we thought we were gonna just go to the hospital for a psychiatric assessment. So we went there and they actually admitted me then and there on the day. Already. And that was also quite hurt like traumatizing because I literally, I had nothing on me. They literally took me away from my parents and I was pretty much owned by the government fast forward. I was there for seven months and
I week after week. I never knew if I was going to be discharged or not. I had absolutely no idea. I was literally just stuck on, like one of the top floors of the hospital building for seven months and yeah, where you at? Sorry, how old were you at? This point? I was at Sea. I was 21 22. Mmm. Yeah, I think, by that time, I was 22. So then after seven months, they did discharge me, but they just charge me because it was nearing the end of the year and they needed a bed.
And they also said that I was at a quote-unquote stable enough BMI to be able to If the hospital but they did for my parents that I was going to relapse very soon and they definitely were right. Because literally not even, three months later. I was in my last and final hospitalization for anorexia. I had relapsed quite bad. And yeah, I, that was 2018 that the beginning of 2018 and then eventually in 2018, like middle, end of 2018.
I was at a weight that way I was able to All to start exercising again. And I thought that I would try and find an adult dance class because, you know, as a creative soul. I just thought you know as a kid dancing, always used to make me happy. So I was just Honestly by this point trying to grasp onto any but of life and hope and something that could just hold me through the next day. So yeah, very, very long story
short. I reach out to a friend who had studied musical theater, and I asked him if he knew of anyone in Cape Town, and he gave me the number. That would then be my director of my college that I just graduated from. Anyway, I asked him if he knew of anyone who could teach adults dance classes in Cape Town and he gave me a number. And then he said to me or by the way, we're opening up a new musical theater Academy. The following year. So he was referring to 2019.
And he said, would you be interested in auditioning? Now? I had been out of it for many years, just emotionally and physically. Just given my stage, but I somehow found myself saying, yes, sir. So, I remember it. So vividly he that was a Tuesday that I messaged him. And then he said, cool. Give me your email address auditions. Are this Saturday this weekend? And yeah, he says, we'll see you then. So, I was like, oh my goodness. What am I going to do?
But if I can say that like waking up Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and in those days, she wasn't Saturday every morning of waking up was just like, I woke up with the sense of purpose and it was like, I felt a Like it was just incredible and it was, yeah, it was clearly. Yeah, it was.
It was incredible. And I did the audition and I was so proud of myself and I was just so grateful, that my monkey mind was just distracted for a few days because, you know, up until then, I don't even know everything was just. So I was just so lost and just broken pretty much. So I was just so grateful for the opportunity to be distracted and to be doing something, and it was clearly, you know, very
much connected. To my fantasy and who I was as a person, so I was really happy for the first time in, I don't know. Probably pretty much my whole life. So anyway, I didn't expect to get accepted because they were amazingly talented people all around me, but there was also quite an extensive interview for the audition and yeah, just first, you know, then getting to know who I who I am and my story and I landed up getting
accepted. And I started studying there in 2019 and I was part of their first intake and literally, Every day since then has been a significant day in my recovery, which brings me to health and wellness. Because concurrently with that, you know, the sense of purpose and, you know, purposes of pillar of Health, which I'm sure we will get into concurrently with that in the midst of my time like anorexia after the in 2018 after the last Clinic admission. I went to a life coach and he
I'm sorry, a nutritionist. Hmm, and she, she like She said, Kelsey for the next 10 days. You're only to eat red meat and olive oil. So pretty much she was describing carnivore. So, I was very familiar, you know, just being very health conscious in my, like, in high school and stuff. I was very familiar of Tim noakes is Banting diet. So I was very familiar with keto
and low carb. And for some weird reason, when she was describing carnivore to me or like zero carb or just speaking about meat and fat, I was there was something my body that was like well, of course, this makes so much sense. And like if I think back as a kid like meat and fat, where the foods that I craved as a kid, like I would be going to
everyone's plate. And in fact, they would call my plate, the graveyard plate, because I used to just eat everyone's chicken bones and skins and everything that they left on the side. And anyway, I started the carnivore diet. I mean, I had pretty much been whenever I was able to be in control of my food choices. IE, when I was not in a clinic. I was very much a proponent of low-carb. Ugh, however, I at the time, also, given my the anorexia. I was very fearful of fat
calories. So I was pretty much just eating very much lean protein, and some green veg, but obviously feeling very miserable because we need fat anyway, so I swear when my, when that nutritionists described Carnival and she told me what I was going to do, there was this huge light bulb that just lit up in my head and I was just like, oh my gosh, it was almost like the floodgates came came down and I was just like
excited. Cited for the first time to go and eat and I was like actually wanted to eat and so that was also like impetus concurrently with you know, starting studying musical theater, you know, those two pillars of Health, you know, having the purpose and then also, you know getting your nutrition dialed in was just like such a perfect recipe for my true recovery and my true healing. And yeah, we can go into many more. We can go for a deep dive into all of that, but that's pretty
much. Yeah, quite. Yeah. Yeah, isn't this a lot of one dive deeper into for sure? As far as the very beginning is concerned. Like do you feel like your your inner exia was basically how your insecurities were manifest? That was probably just like the vehicle for how those insecurities manifested, right? Yes, 100% for me. It was it manifested in the inner ex-cia and in your food and body anything related to how my body was? In the world. Why do you think you were so
nice? Why do you think you were struggling with the insecurities in the first place? Like before before? Anorexia even was the manifestation of that? What do you think led to you having these insecurities? Because that some time with your upbringing or just like something environmentally, like how, what was the Catalyst for that to be honest? I don't even know myself because I my parents are the most magnanimously loving parents ever and there was no like
necessarily. Like traumatic event that happened. However, just diving into my research of trying to figure out where this all stemmed from besides me just being an anxious, highly susceptible kids to like the narrative for anorexia on a purely
physiological. Level II was also I was like really like researching Weston Price and forgot the lady's name, but she was she was basically speaking about the fact that when you're an infant and especially when your breastfed It is so important that when you start eating solid food, solid foods as an infant obviously, but you don't really have control over that. But when you start introducing solid foods to your child after breastfeeding, it's so important
to have iron rich foods. Now, you know, the majority of people in this world are unfortunately misinformed about nutrition and stuff, and my parents just didn't know. So like my first solid foods was like, straight to the purified, like cereals, and all the horrible things. And in fact, when I look back now, And I do know that low iron. I think I think it's Sally.
I forgot the surname from Weston Price, but she was saying, like, something with the gut and iron, there's like a length of like low iron, and I know that when I was a young girl, I was actually diagnosed with low iron and the gynecologist was he even put me on iron supplementation, but that was, I didn't respond well to that either. So I think maybe like on a purely physiological. Think like, right in the
beginning. I think the fact that my first solid foods weren't Iron, and in no way, I'm not blaming my parents and at all. It's just it is what it is. I think that was that also made my gut more susceptible to being, I suppose but more sensitive and vulnerable. And then I think, you know, every most things do stem from a dysbiotic that. So I don't know. I don't know if you, I can't see like there was no traumatic
event, but also on that book. As a kid, like I did go to, like, specialist doctors as I mentioned, and they were a few times where doctors Did speak about weight and did way me and make like made some sly comments that I think also just were ingrained in my head, you know, and there were you know in like between the ages of 9 and 11. I was quite a bit, you know, chubby and I think I definitely as a kid also had a bit of a distorted relationship with food and probably also utilized food
to comfort me. So I don't know. I think there's, there's always a, there's always a lot at play and they hasn't been like one solid. Thing that I can say, cause the anorexia that makes sense. I think there's always a lot at play. When did you, when did you first realize that there was an issue with relationship with food? Like, at what point did you recognize that? This was not normal or healthy? So I think it's I think I only got to the acknowledgement that
this is not normal and healthy. Actually in 2020, which is was a very significant year for. For me in my recovery, but I had always felt just growing up. Very I was always highly conscious of how I looked and then only like just before the bulimia started, did I begin to like Research into like gluten-free and started exercising with the trainer?
And I became more, you know, abs like I suppose obsessed with exercise and what I would eat but it only really reached a point where because I was always just glorifying being a Then as I possibly could. So only when I like, I suppose reached my Rock, Bottom in 2020, and started, changing, and turning things around in terms of like wanting true recovery. Did I think that was like for me the impetus of like, okay, this is I can't carry on like this anymore.
This is not healthy, and I actually wanted to be healthy. Were you binging and purging prior to that point? That just seems absolutely normal to you? So, I suppose the binging and purging was only, like, when I was still in high school when I was like, oh, so that at that time, I was also on antidepressants and like, that was also one of the side effects just made me want to eat so much. And I, yeah, I yeah, so I was on quite a few medications between the years of 2012 and 2015.
So I think the medication definitely contributed to me. Starting to binge and then because I felt so guilty, then I started to purge, but the minute I stopped the antidepressants in 2015. My bulimia sort of went into remission I suppose. And then I didn't really also because I was a singer. I don't really want to mess up my vocal cords too much as well. So, like, when I was anorexic, you know, like severely underweight actively anorexic
was actually Wasn't bulimic. It was only like, you know, I think and it's quite common in anorexia recovery in the beginning stages. This is even before I went on Carnivore. I did find myself feeling like, you know, just in terms of like starting to eat again, like absolutely starving. So then I would land that binging. And then sometimes there were a few flare-ups where I just couldn't handle that, and I was quite triggered and then I would Purge as well, which obviously
wasn't healthy. And also the fact that I was binging on all the cereals and all the horrible things, my blood sugar. I was just up and down up and down up and down, which didn't help that. See, all that, all stabilized, the minute. I, I went Carnival. I feel like the antidepressants are an interesting topic because I know I know, I've never used them myself, but I know several people very closely that have.
And I'm obviously not a nocturnal one, pretend to be one of the internet, but it seems, as though, when my experience with those individuals, the, the antidepressants wind up doing more damage. Image than good and I'm sure that's not the case. And many people are still wouldn't be them. But I feel like I've never seen anything good come from antidepressants and my few relationships. Yeah, I mean, for the right
person, they can be amazing. But in fact, there's a brilliant podcast episode with Chris. Dr. Chris Palmer on porcelain Dino's podcast, and he explained it. So, well, there's like I also I'm not a doctor but I am not going to butchering this, but there is a huge link between antidepressants. And then, One's metabolic
health. So it makes, yeah, I also like, especially weaning off of antidepressants like, you need to do that properly and under medical supervision because I swear, I've never felt so ill in my life, like even when I was still taking the antidepressants, if I forgot to take them one day, I almost like I couldn't had like no motor
skills. Like I literally like would just like I couldn't almost like I forgot how to walk and like I would drop things like in fact I Was in Israel, one year and I, we were going for a hike up, one of the mountains and that day, I forgotten to take my medication and I swear nearly fell off the mountain. It was quite scary. So antidepressants are not. I'm not a joke. Well, that's all I'm not against them for the right person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a fair statement for sure.
But, I mean all these like, ssris, you know, they're they're, they're causing a flux and your body's own circulating, you know, serotonin, dopamine levels. And if you look, I think it's serotonin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't serotonin. The one that's like 98% of its produced in your gut. Yeah, I don't know if it I think, I don't know if it's 98. But yeah, it's it's fact, most of the most of the neurotransmitters are, there's a large proportion, that is
produced in the gut. Well, I mean, the gut is, like, the second brain or the first brain. Depends how you look at it. Yeah. So for the people that are on these antidepressants, but yet they have a horrendous diet. I mean, I would imagine that that is not doing themselves any favors at all. All. Yeah, I think this takes me to like one of like my biggest Revelations is that? I mean even like I don't know if you know, dr.
Daniel Amon, he's a psychiatrist and he for example, he's Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus's psychiatrist, but he's also very well versed in the importance and the significance of what you feed your body. And he's the first one to say like in order for you to work on your software. You have to work on your Hardware first, so get like darling. In your things like nutrition is
like so important. And in fact, it was only when I dialed in my nutrition was I actually able to apply everything that I had been talking about to psychiatrist and psychologist for years. Like, it was literally only when I was able to, you know, decrease that newer information that my brain was clearly under that I was then able to start actually implementing all the strategies, all the mindfulness techniques, all the breathing and be able to like move forward
in my life. That makes sense. Yeah, totally. And I don't know, like I don't know if we'll ever know if he actual, you know, mechanistic property of Y and that happens. I'm sure it's gonna be different for every individual. But like for me when I was going through all my disordered eating Tendencies, the moment I switched over to Kido like it just all made sense like all the everything started clicking. Like I was able to have a much healthier relationship with food.
I didn't have any more binging like when I switched over to Quito, I don't remember what day that was, like, some people have this keto anniversary and I had no idea what Date with I know roughly the time frame. But when I switched over like there is no yearning for me to binge anymore.
Like, it was just gone like it just resolved and I think there's a, there's some physiological implications there, but I think there's also many psychological implications because I was excited about what I was doing. It was new, it was novel. There's no nobody else out there that I knew that was doing it. And then people started to take interest in it. So it kind of became part of my
identity as well. And then I kind of, you know, use That as a way to maintain that momentum and not everybody has that, you know benefit, but I think there's so much of that is intertwined between like your mindset and psyche your psychology towards why you're eating and why, it's beneficial. But then also obviously it's going to have a physiological impact on your hormone levels, your glucose level.
I just don't know, you know. No, I don't think we'll ever know the exact interworking of how all that's tied in together. Mmm. Yeah. I think, I think everyone is obviously, on my own journey and, you know, I've been carnivore. Or four years, but it wasn't an easy easy sailing Journey at all. In fact, in the beginning. I had, you know, I was doing very, very well emotionally and I, I did definitely experience that whole kito's in that
everyone speaks about. But then had quite a triggering moments where I went to my endocrinologist and she, I was so excited to tell her about, like, what I was eating and what dieters on and I told her that I'm eating all this meat and fat and she goes But we feed fat and olive oil to the starving kids in the hospital to try and fatten them up.
And now as like a newly recovering, anorexic that was like the worst thing you could have told me because it just triggered enough still so vulnerable. And also add an educated myself yet exactly about, like, what I was doing. So, I was so skeptical and so easily influenced and that triggered, you know, a relapse. But still a relapse, just under the carnival Realm. I was still eating but boy did I cut back?
I literally just went back to eating lean chicken and for like about a year or so, not even a year. I don't even know how many months and then it was only when lockdown hit in 2020. My ex-boyfriend. I had just broken up. So it wasn't it wasn't a happy time. But and I was also forced to be at home alone with myself and I suppose that was like, You know, I actually, I thought I'd hit rock-bottom many many, many
times before that. But clearly, I hadn't and it was I somehow stumbled Upon Us. Stumbled across podcasts when I was in the midst of this lockdown. And I was like, okay, I'm going to educate myself about what I'm doing with carnivore and Quito and I started listening to all the podcasts including yours and I just started listening to doctor speak and hearing stories and I was like, well, when am I going to be one of the people who experience this completely?
transformation and then yeah, it just I almost like trick my monkey Mind by continuously surrounding myself with these amazing podcast episodes with dialogues of doctors and and people who had gone through these things that I was like able to realize because the word healthy for me had always been a very very triggering word in recovery because all that healthy meant was just getting fatter but by like trained by like sir, Finding myself with these dialogues and these
conversations with doctors and teacher Specialists and all these amazing people. I almost like switch to flicking like switch to click in my brain and I was like for the first time the word healthy was cool and I was like, it's actually called to be healthy and it was from I can't give you a date. I don't know when it was I just wrote was in the middle of lockdown and I was walking in my God and listening to a podcast.
I think it was with Amber Hearn. And I was just like I want to be healthy and, you know, we know like you you can do anything that you set your mind to and from then I was like, yeah, you have to want something so I suppose that's why I said like 2020 was we're truly all began for me.
Well has to have been. I mean it must have been so confusing for you to that point because I mean you're probably getting so much conflicting information from everybody online, from all the people that you're talking with in the dialogue in these eating. A clinics because what exactly goes on in those clinics, I'm assuming they're not really in favor of a carnivore diet or a keto diet in which case you're restricting, one macronutrient. I would imagine they would push
back against that. Yeah, 100% nights ago. In fact, like my parents, when I started Connie ball. They were like, this is just another eating disorder. Like, what are you doing? So essentially. You have to eat everything that they give you, you're not allowed to not eat them. Otherwise, you'll be not like punished but like privileges will be taken away from you and that food entails because they all believe that there's no, there should be no fear foods, and I don't disagree with that.
I really don't disagree with that, but I'll dive a bit deeper into that after but yeah, it's just it's essentially a sugar. Look I said, because your eye at one stage. I had to eat a whole. I don't know. You have Lindt chocolate, right? Like this lens chocolate bars. I had to eat a whole one of those just in one sitting with like, a whole glass of soya milk and a few handfuls of nuts like right before bed. And that's just like one
example. And like, there was cupcakes and all these things and like just on a purely physiological level. Can you imagine my blood sugar levels and like a ready when you're in that acute stage of like extreme anxiety because So when you're so underweight, everything is heightened, like you're you are just by default naturally anxious because your
body is like so starved. So yeah, I you know, there's also like you can't, there's no not allowed to speak about food or body or anything, which I also agree with it because you know, I suppose they're good and bad things to these clinics and that it is really outdated and I think there's not enough. You know, it's the honest actually, haven't really dealt with what I experienced in the clinics like myself and there's a lot of trauma involved. And as also these eating
disorder clinics. So this is like something I'm quite critical of because my first and last Clinic admission for an eating disorder who are very they were private like clinics and they were only specifically for eating disorder like patients. So as opposed to my middle one, which was in the hospital. Like the government hospital. That was just a general psychiatric ward. And I, when I was there, I was actually the only eating disorder patient and that was amazing for me.
I found a lot of Serenity in that environment because I wasn't surrounded by eating disordered people and it was almost like I was surrounded by quote-unquote normal people. So a lot of things were normalized for me. I ate at the same table as all these other people and it almost took me out of my myopic eating disorder world.
So I would actually say that my second when I was in the hospital was probably the place where I was my most calm, but going back to the other private clinics when you put a group of anorexic girls together. It's almost like high school on
steroids. It's just, it's like, it was it's quite traumatic because, you know what, the other ones doing and then the people who had been there longer had different Privileges, and they could disrupt their own food, and you could clearly see that they didn't do it properly. And it was just a bit of a The bit of a nightmare environment and everyone's triggering each other and everyone's telling on each other and it's like it's awful.
So, yeah, it does not very conducive to the progress and I feel like a Rena T know. Yeah, and I feel like with with them. I'm an imagine that with the, you know, the directors. They're like, they're pretty much falling under the belief that, you know, it's calories in calories out to have a Mixed Plate. It a little bit of everything. Don't feel guilty for eating anything. There's no such thing as a bad. Food. That's kind of what their
underlying premises, right? Yeah. So for a moderator that's really cool, but for an abstainer that is a nightmare and it just doesn't work, in practice the jaw, going back to you like about Mafia Foods. I do, I agree. I do agree with that, and I think that's where self-awareness comes in because, you know, in the beginning, even in the beginning of my Carnival Journey, when I was still very much, very new in the world of coming out of, you know, extreme energy.
Yeah, I I was fearful of food, but now after having educated myself about food and about how different macro nutrients respond in your body and you know processed foods are just not the way to go necessarily. In fact, to be honest ever. We know that alcohol and cigarettes are bad, you know, so too is something like vegetable oil. This is good. I'm not going to get into that because I'm sure your audience know the dangers of vegetable oils and refined processed grains and stuff.
Anyway. Now that I've got the knowledge and now that I've done so much healing, I can see that. I'm not like I'm not restricting these Foods out of fear. I'm restricting them because I'm educated and what the outcome would be in my body and it's like just as I'm going to say no to drugs. I'm going to say no to something like that, but it's not coming out of the place of fear. So I think that that's the reason why self-awareness comes into play is that you need to be aware.
Of your intentions in that moment. Like you need to be able to like be stoic and realize is that this an eating disorder? Sort of reason why I'm saying no or is this a actual fact like, you know genuine? No, I do not want this and because I think in the early stages of recovery, that can be quite blurry, or maybe you'd it's not blurry, but you just don't have the confidence to like own up to the fact that it's been, you know, a fear, the
fearful. Irrationally fearful thought because obviously eating a piece of cake is not actually going to kill you, you know, one piece of cake, but it might actually if you yeah if it triggers a whole binge, maybe it won't necessarily kill you then and there. But yeah, yeah. Yeah.
No, I totally agree. I feel like there's I think it's probably a little bit different for me based off of their Outlook and they're they're just, you know, Persona of food, but for me, you know, I'm definitely more so of an Eliminator than Moderator. And I think most of the people in the keto carnivore space probably are as well. But I feel like a lot of people struggle with this desire to test themselves to see if they've truly recovered by allowing themselves. Something some foods.
Like I had one client and good friend and he struggle with disordered eating and his his hang up. So to speak was that he would do so well for so long and then he would feel that. He needed to test himself to see if that, you know, Act of testing himself would result in this order Tendencies, or if he was able to moderate and almost without fail, every single time. He did it, it led to him, you know, going off on another tangent of eating in Surplus.
And I think, you know, for so many people, the idea of being able to moderate things, the idea of being able to embrace eating, you know, something on birthday or on our anniversary. On a wedding or something of that is just incredibly appealing. Lot of people try and use the relationship with their kids and their kids friends. Like if your kids having a birthday party, you should be able to have piece of cake and not ruin your life and I would agree that it shouldn't ruin your life.
But my whole philosophy towards it is that cake shouldn't have that power over you to begin with. If it's not good, if it's not yielding any positive in your life. If it's not creating and you know, a performance Improvement positive. Outcome. Then then why have it in the first place? Like that's, that's been my whole premise. Like if it's not benefiting me then I don't want it to because the temporary high that you get from that sweet taste is not worth it.
It's just not worth it in my personal opinion and there's so many ways, especially with the popularity of Quito and low carb. Now. I mean, there's so many ways to make a ketogenic version or a low carb version of those Foods. So to try and justify eating those Foods. If you're somebody that struggles with that, it just doesn't make sense to me.
Yeah, I think that one would have to check themselves, you know, if is this like some sort of unconscious self sabotage, but, you know, I suppose it goes back to what type of person you are. Because like, yeah, I agree with you, but I also agree with the other side of the coin as well. So I suppose it's really it. Yeah, it's a Yeah, I don't have a side that I could pick on but I in my personal life, how I I love my life. I'm exactly.
I I know that like the brief high of having some sugar is not going to be worth, you know, us especially because I've been eating clean for like so long and I want to say, I don't want to put clean and dirty as good or bad food, but the fact that I've been eating a species appropriate diet for so long. I'm so used to running on such clean.
Clarity and such good energy. And when I have tried those Foods because I mean I have had like even even if it's a source on meet, you know, if I'm eating out I just don't you know, obviously that does I don't run on like for like about a day in a bit. Sometimes it even can trigger like anxiety. I mean, not not from like an anxiety where I feel guilty for eating it but like actual anxiety in my body like the next couple of several days, so I am.
With you in my personal life, but I don't want to, I suppose I can tone. I can't speak for anyone else that myself. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean in Echo that 100% like I'm not saying that my way is the only way by any means, do you think? And this is probably going to be quite dependent upon the individual to. But do you think it is good or bad to associate Foods as being
good or bad? Because I've heard both arguments on this and I feel like, like I understand the idea of Hey, look, there's no such thing as bad food, you know, you should be able to consume everything and it's kind of like the dose makes the poison so to speak. But at the end the day, like if it's something that's, you know, heavily processed has a bunch of crap filler ingredients in there isn't really is totally devoid of nutrition.
I don't feel like it's totally outside of the realm of, you know, reality to say. Hey look, that's a bad food. Yeah. No, I completely agree. And this is why I'm so grateful for actually educating myself because now I don't even attach a motion to it. It's like it's a scientific fact that that is not even food and that like my body doesn't even know how to digest that. So I I've reached a point G. I've educated myself and I've even done. I'm also a qualified nutrition
advisor. I don't even have emotion attached to the fact that I don't want to eat something process because it's like it's not even food. So in terms of good and bad eye. Going to be like quite blunt in saying I suppose I don't know if it's good or bad but it's it's
either food or it's not food. And I like to mimic as I like to simulate as much as I can of like how our ancestors used to live and they would not have come across white sugar and like how we know it and takes and I don't know bread. They wouldn't have come across that in a natural environment. And that's all I'm going to say on that one because I think the rest just falls into place from there. No, it makes them make sense that favorites. Very eloquently put for sure. What about the?
This is something I've only I guess I've known about it, but I haven't really dealt with it personally. I guess it may have indirectly but I know of a type of anorexia or disorder eating in which case the the manifestation isn't so much the manipulation of your intake and you know binging and purging necessarily But more, so it manifests itself and heightened sense of activity, much more activity. Like, I know of people who just train, you know, manik trainers.
Like, they drain an intense amount. Like they literally walk for miles and miles, run for miles, and miles trained incredibly intensely to basically increased. Expenditure the point where they're able to maintain that incredible thin composition, but they're not doing that VM purging the Food. Do you have experience with them? Yeah, you speaking to one of them? Well, I'm Ricardo. You're not so over exercise and I suppose it is a type of purging.
If you do think about it. It's a very common overlapping trait that a lot of people with any disordered eating disorder will have it's not necessarily A type. I think a lot of as I say like a lot of they're like, you know subheadings of different. Very seasoned different symptoms that all fall under the same, you know, either anorexia bulimia. So, yeah, it's, it's not an easy
one as well. It's again, it is, as I said, it is a type of purging and that's also been quite a journey in and of itself to find to like, press pause. And be like, okay, am I going for a walk now? Because I genuinely want to and I want to enjoy it or am I going now? Because I feel guilty about what I've done. Just eaten.
It is a hard hard. I must say, like, I managed to get over the eating, much quicker and much more, like, sustainably than I have with the my relationship with exercise and movement, you know, also given how much I know about the importance of moving the body in, how we were born to move
just as a human species. It's it is quite challenging, but all I can Says The more I've educated myself, the more I'm able to rationalize it to myself and to you know work on those little moments of like questioning like really being critical. Like are you doing this out of fear? Or are you doing this? Because you really want to. It is very difficult.
Yeah. It is interesting because I look at other addictions, for instance, like addictions to drugs, addictions to alcohol, addictions to pornography, and things that nature. And it's easy for people to To recognize that. Hey, this is probably not a good healthy Behavior. This is this is something I'm dealing with but it's not a good thing. Whereas with you know addictions to food or addictions to exercise. It's like those are good things
like food is a good thing. Exercise is a good thing. So knowing how to you know, moderate that in your life or implement it in a sustainable healthy fashion becomes such a point of confusion because like No definitive Playbook of like you as individual need to do this amount of cardio. This is a matter of right weight training, this amount of, you know, macros and calories to be the best for you.
And there's so many question marks out there and you have so many conflicting points of information. So with regard to training, I'd love to get your take on how you're, you know, improving that relationship for me like when I would finish a competition prep, and I'd be at my leanest. I became addicted to that look and it was very hard for me.
To embrace putting on Bonnie fat eating more, and not just kind of going into this incredibly, you know, using exercise as an outlet to keep that, you know, that lean physique. However, once I educated myself and recognize that there's so many benefits that come with a period of a caloric Surplus, putting on some healthy body fats, letting my metabolism up regulating my hormones, balanced letting my body be primed for building, more lean muscle tissue.
All of that comes in the Text of having little more body fat eating, at a surplus. So, like, once I recognized that, it made it much easier for me to embrace the little bit of body fat that came with that, but I'm assuming that's going to be different for everybody. Especially if they're not doing a sport like body building in which you have kind of more
defined goals. Yeah. Look, I mean even even like I remember in the beginning stages of my recovery, and I was I think it was even the podcast that I was listening to with you and you were speaking about different weights and things and I remember then being quite triggered. Like even the fact of thinking about weights and stuff. I it I could feel okay. Maybe I need to just press pause right now because I'm not ready to listen to the rest of us, but now looking back.
It's like I suppose it has, it has been a process is just what I want to say and you can't necessarily put a time frame on it, but I'm going back to educating yourself because now it's like the more it's almost like taken emotion out of it completely the more of educated myself. So I wanted to say that in terms. Training. Sorry, what was your specific question? Because it? Yes, I thought of so many different things. Now. How are you personally kind of
doing this for you? Like how are you working through the exercise training portion of their relationship? So at the end of the day, I I've come to realize that I really I made myself extremely. Well, I was very, very sick emotionally and also physically. So everything has been about building, all of that up again, which has been in and of itself. It's own battle and the standard be. So I haven't. I haven't also. I think my body was just completely exhausted.
I was just so depleted. So I didn't really have the energy to like, go into hardcore training and things. And in fact, whenever I tried to go for a run, I actually land up once fracturing my pelvis. And I mean, even at the music started, when I was studying musical theater, I was still like, you know, I started off very underweight as well, and I was always injured and everything.
So I actually physically couldn't even begin to like, train hardcore, but what I could do, It was walking and to help facilitate, like, not being bored on these long walks. I turned to podcasting as well. So that's, it's almost like I've put my like education time and like, where I learn along with my movement. I suppose it is easy to listen to a podcast and taking information when you're doing like a locomotive action, like walking.
I mean, I don't think I would be able to do a podcast if I'm ever going to train and things. But to be honest, I haven't really been that. That type of person to like go and train. Just because for the last few years, I just haven't actually had the energy. The only other sort of exercise. I did besides walking and yoga and then for a brief period running. Before I fractured my pelvis was dancing at college and that was
in a class and I was distracted. So I'm not like a I am wanting to start implementing more resistance training. I do sometimes walk with weights and things, but it Now I just have to go back to am I doing this now? Out of fear and I have had, you know, the exercise piece. I'm still working on. If I am honest I haven't fully.
You know reached a point where I don't ever feel anxious and I feel like I might like have to go for a walk or something but I don't I can't just because I physically can't do those hardcore things because whenever I've tried even if it's a hitting I just get injured the next day and I just literally can't do that, but it is still Will a battle of mine I suppose and haven't although it's a lot better, but I haven't fully like a supposed to relinquish that. And I'm just trying to like
almost Be like, yeah. I just, I always manage it in a way. Yeah. Now that's that's good. You mentioned something earlier than was incredibly impactful for anybody. That caught it and I caught it and I feel like a lot of people need, we need to backtrack a little bit. You mentioned that when you went for that audition that that was for that was for dancing, or that was for singing. So for singing, acting and dancing. So that that is what encompasses musical theater.
So there was a In component and acting phone and and the dancing component, and then an interview and that you're basically given the heads-up on that. Was it three days prior to the audition. Yeah, pretty much three, four days. And in those three days, that's when you were on a high, you felt amazing. And you were able to kind of have some forward momentum away from your your - Tendencies, correct? Yeah. Now that is interesting to me. I feel like I feel like so many of our ailments.
So many of our, you know, so many of our addictive Tendencies Brew up in the in the context of an idle mind or an idle environment. And I don't remember the quote exactly but it's like, oh shoot. I'm going to butcher it but it's the devil's playgrounds and idle mind or something like that. But I feel like any time that I've seen, you know, profound progress in my life personally is when I'm going a million
miles an hour towards things. I'm passionate about and the business has been a vehicle of that. For me. The bodybuilding has been a vehicle of that for me, having a very defined goal. In which case there is a defined time limit, but you, you understand the, what's at stake. You understand, what needs to be done. You understand? All that that has to be done in order for you to be proud of the
outcome. And I feel like when that happens, when that is looming, your ability to bypass these - addictive Tendencies is incredibly heightened. And so I feel like everybody owes them self to find those things that make them tick, that they are passionate about that. They want to excel at and they'll be much more likely be able to mitigate any of the adverse tendencies that they may suffer from. It is so important.
It is so important and if you are struggling, you know, to find things that are you know, that makeup you holistically besides, you know, food and diet and exercise regimes like go back. When you're a kid, like, what have you used to enjoy doing a kit doing as a cat? Like what made you happy? You know, that's why I, as I mentioned, that's why I wanted to seek an adult dance class.
You know, when I was able to start exercising again, right in the beginning, because I knew that as a kid that made me happy. It's really, really important because I've often described, you know, the anorexia as like, you know, you can feel when you're when you're, you know, thinking and behaving out of the air. Anorexic mind and you can also think when you're like that, suppose, I supposed to go rational versus your irrational
mind. Also. I'm not a fan of labels and just because I believe that we are just all human, and none of us were born broken. We're all just living the human experience. And I feel like when someone's labeled with something, they often just take that on. Like it's actually, so crazy. How I know I'm going on off on a tangent, but like so many people who are so many people who like, are diagnosed with bipolar. It's actually just blood sugar dysregulation.
It's quite crazy. So, yeah, I'm quite outspoken about labels. But anyway, just for the purpose of this, just makes it easier, I suppose. So when you're flipping in and out of, like, you're irrational versus your rational mind, like I've often described how I described it. For example, to my mom who she's never had a disordered relationship with food ever or body less her. I'm quite jealous, but I have explained it to her. Is that like I know it's like when the anorexia is I'm triggered.
I call it my monkey mind. It's almost like, I'm someone's holding me back. Someone's like, pulling my arms and, like, trying to hold me back. That's like everything that makes me fulfilled and makes me happy. For example, the singing, the acting the dancing, and speaking about mental, health and wellness, and the significance of nutrition, and being on those podcast. Like, those are things that like, fulfill me emotionally. And that, like, almost keeps my
head straight and keeps my body. Moving forward, as opposed to, there are some moments. Obviously, they are always going to be triggers. Always ups and downs. That's inevitable. Just as much as being happy as a reality. So too is being sad. We need the darkness in order to see the light. So I do have some obviously a lot stronger to deal with them that like I've often just described, you know, with like the anorexic mind like pulling me back.
But then all the other things that are purposeful to me are like so important in keeping my head straight and keeping me moving forward and keeping me as I say, like distracted, I suppose because it's so easy. It can Can be so easily especially in the beginning of recovery when you're so vulnerable. And so sensitive to like flip back into the myopic eating disorder world. And that's why I think, you know, at in those private eating
disorder clinics. That's why it was most unhelpful for me because I was like, continuously stuck in the myopic small little world that the eating disorder, ultimately made me feel as opposed to when I was like out of that, I was focusing on. Is externally and them almost the macrocosm of my world, you know, it's huge. It's huge as a zen-like, a to give sustainable recovery and
actual proper full recovery. I've actually, you know, when I was in clinics, I did meet obviously a lot of girls and so many of them had almost like they've been to.
So like they've almost I hadn't met like as opposed to 10 admission some of them even and it's like they've become I'm so used to being in an eating disorder clinic that it's like they've become almost like so institutionalized and it just like breaks my heart because it's like if they could if you know if their counselors all dieticians and whatnot over, if there was like a life coach, that could help them find those things that fulfill them and like, is their purpose.
I swear. It's like, oh I'm getting quite emotional. It's almost like it's because I'm sure, you know, but like anorexia has got the highest mortality rate and it's just It breaks my heart because I feel like I'm one of the very, very lucky blessed ones. I don't know how, but I just somehow feel like I've really found the recipe for like true recovery. And I know everyone's story is obviously different.
But while I think having a purpose is just going back to your first point, Sorry for the tangents, but it's significantly profound know. And it's like, it should be. We're born like, if as a kid. Like, you know, I feel like kids are the most Like authentic beings, like they know what they want. They know what makes them happy to know when they're hungry. They know when they're tired.
Like, it's almost like somehow along the way we get disconnected to that, and it's all about reconnecting and having the confidence to own who you are suppose. Yeah. I totally agree. And once you once you figure out what that is, that excites you? I think people constantly look for, you know, everybody says I want to be happy, they look for what makes them happy. But I feel like that's almost synonymous with what?
Excites you? Like if you're excited about something you are you are likely going to be happy. So figuring out what excites you and then moving towards that. Getting that positive, momentum built up and then the beautiful thing about spinning, your time energy and efforts towards that.
Thing, that excites you is after that's happened for long enough, and you've got time on your side once enough time has elapsed where you haven't relapsed, then it becomes so much more easier to keep avoiding that relapse because that no longer is what defines you. It's no longer your identity. That's no longer something that holds you to that standard. So you gain more confidence in who you are? You gain more self-awareness and you just have the choice.
You are empowered to make the choice of your decisions at that point. And that's you had that freedom. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what I experienced as well. Like the mall that I committed like to surround myself with people that I've left me and only surround myself with those people and only surround myself and put myself in situations. Patients that have left me. It like just has a whole cascading effect that ultimately gave me the sense of confidence and it's it's revelatory.
It's unbelievable and just going back to like your authenticity and things. I just want to put this quote in there because it was so profound in my journey and the midst of my anorexia. I did go to a life coach and he worded it. So, well, he said to me, Kelsey, if you are unable to nourish your authenticity, how do Expect to nourish yourself on a purely physiological level.
And that like, just hit so true because that was before, that was just after, I had come out of my first inpatient clinic for each disorder and it was so true. It yard, really resonated profound me with me. Do you do like Journey journaling? Or do you do like video logs Vlogs or anything like that to document this journey? I wish I wish I did. I have had the thought in the back of my head and I do a lot of writing and I suppose in my music as well.
That's where I that was always been my emotional Outlet. So with my music and with like my writing and I've also written a lot of scripts and things, it's in there. And in fact, when I was at musical theater, when I was at the college and one of the requirements was that we had to write a journal. So that was so powerful.
And I've kept it with me actually, like, it's really, I know it's not sexy to say like journaling is cool and so powerful as an intervention, but it's really really powerful as an intervention. Yeah, I encourage you to do something that's forward-facing to the community that you're trying to build the audience that would resonate with what
you're saying. Because there's something powerful to be said, for when when you're going through something and you're simply documenting that journey and And it resonates with people that are going through something similar. And they find Hope in you, it strengthens your resolve that much more to not let them down and then you get better for it. And then it just becomes a mutually beneficial relationship at that point because you keep
getting better personally. And then they keep finding inspiration and motivation to keep staying the course as well. So if there's any, you know, medium or way to manifest that so that you're putting yourself out there and being vulnerable being transparent and then it is getting in the A people that would resonate with it. I guarantee you that when added a ton of value to them and to you. Yeah, I agree. In fact, I've had a dream of
solving my own podcast. So I think I mean that's in the pipeline for me. Yeah, so I think that will also be a great medium for me to actually speak out. Good good. Good because I mean you've got an incredibly inspirational story and you've you've been able to speak it to speak your own truth in a way that I feel like would be incredibly impactful.
Painful for others that are going through something similar because so many people go through this and it's not really talked about like it's not really vocalizing. I remember when I first came out and was public with the fact that I had struggled with disordered eating. Like people thought I was really bold and brave for talking about it. But for me, it was like, why would I not talk about? This is just my life's chapter
in my life. So I feel like it's it needs to be more widely spoken about in a way. That's just honest and authentic. So I commend you for, you know, Ancient, doing your own podcast. That's what that's where it takes you. I agree. And that. Yeah, thank you. Well Kelsey until that podcast is live and people can go there to listen to you. Where else can they go? Find you sure. So you can follow me on Instagram at Kelsey Beholder. I'll send you the link to put in the Nerds.
And I have a YouTube channel with some of my music. However, it is quite outdated just because I haven't put like some stuff up there in quite a few years. I suppose since the anorexia actually, but watch that space because I have written a whole lot of new music over the years. And I'm busy trying to record it to be able to share it with everyone. And then yeah, I'm also supposed besides Instagram and YouTube. That's pretty much. It also watch the space for potential podcast soon.
So yeah, awesome. Well, I will definitely link out to the Instagram and YouTube channel in the podcast when it does, when it does come to be Kelsey. If there's ever anything I can do. Do for you at all. Please don't hesitate to reach out and let me know and happy to help in any way. Thank you. And likewise, and I look forward to hopefully seeing you guys in Cape Town. Yes, we'll be selling around the world at some point. So I will definitely let you know when that happens until
then. Take care and keep in touch for sure. Kelsey. Thank you. Bye bye.