Competition Prep and Experimentation with Colt Milton

Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes kilo Savage.com. Today I've got special guest and good friend, Colt Milton on the line. We had coat on a couple months ago, several months ago, now when he was doing his crazy competition season, he didn't multiple multiple shows lined out and he had completed all of those. He like busted his foot total chaos but he got through all those competitions. So we kind of covered how those shows went down with the last show.

He did a non-tested show and started experimenting with sweet potatoes as a peak week loading protocol. So I I want to kind of pick his brain and see how his body responded to that. So we dive into that quite a bit. We talked about other bodybuilding Endeavors hit, we talked about his training split. We talked about his running Pursuits, he's going to be

training for a marathon here. So we talked about that, we talked about business, we talked about all kinds of things, Colts, a great guy, I always enjoy chatting with him. It's always cool to see what he's doing. He's also very much so into experimenting with his body figuring out what works, what doesn't work and just learning as he goes. So always fun, bouncing ideas off of them. So without further Ado, sit back, relax and do a conversation with Colt Milton.

And we are live cult. How are you brother? I'm doing amazing brother. I'm talking to you. How the heck do you think I'm doing? I'm glad to hear it, man. I'm glad to hear. Do you remember? Like, I had you on not too too long ago, but I don't even remember when that was, was it right after your last competition? Yeah, I think it was right after my 10th or 11th show cuz I did four of them. All right.

In a row. I'm a carnivore diet and it was about halfway through what Month was in, that was October. Okay, okay. So it's been a few months since we've chatted man. Oh wow. Sorry been several months since we've chatted. So what all's? So people should first of all listen to those podcast kind of get some back story on. You you doing the ketogenic approach carnivore approach to competition prep. But since that competition, that was your last competition of the season, right?

Yeah, yeah. The the last show that I did was that was that was number 12 actually. And so that was a couple weeks later, I did a actually your client Dakota. Mmm. So he and I did the same show that was on November 4th that the NPC Northwest Natural Championships. So that was here in the state of Washington and then the following day was the same show but untested, which I went ahead and did just for the fun of it and Filled out on sweet potatoes

too. So if you want to talk about that, I think you'd get a kick out of it. But yeah. Now definitely gained a lot of size and a lot of water weight, but it's NPC, and the guys are bigger and they are all in gear. And so I was like, man, for me to even have a chance to even have a chance against these guys. I'm going to need to get is absolute big as possible and you can do that on any of the prior

shows that season, right? That was like, just kind of like an experiment with that last show. Yeah, yeah loci. That was the first time that I ate carbs in, About nine months. Gotcha, okay. So talk to me about that, man. So what was the, what was the response had your body respond with that? Kind of refeed going into that approach, right? Right, so man's man's plans, in God's plans are always

different, right? So like my attitude going into these shows is oh yeah no we're going to do this show with Robert speaking strategy. Then we're going to do one with my own peeking strategy that I think is going to work just as good and then we're going to try or at least for my body type which is going to be all And that one definitely had its ups and downs. And then, and then the last and then the last couple shows was going to be just two weeks in

modifications on that. And then the reality is its competitions man. So like and it was getting close to the month of December. So it's a hard time to make a living as a fitness entrepreneur in the first place, because that's what we do is full time online coaching. Mmm. And so, like we are reaching out to sponsors last minute and God's got sponsored by Celtic Sea salt. Got sponsored by Nutrition. And so, that's kind of how we paid for those last couple

shows. But yeah, it was, it was like, I was kind of in survival mode by that by shows number three and four. And and for by the time that I met Dakota and and we were and we were kind of getting to know each other. Well, how did have the reefy with carbs go compared to because with your peaking strategy, it's a lot higher protein, you kind of emailing back and forth with me on that one and then the carbs was that that was just a total Experimentation around like you.

Did you keep the fats and proteins, pretty much consistent and just have a bowl of sweet potato as well. Yeah, so I had so on the, so the first show I was 100% basically by gospel the way that you teach how to do it out of your book, right? And that got me the most people

I've ever been in my in my life. All the judges said that I was for stirred the most conditioned athlete at that competition that was the Northwest. We have we We have a video on this, too, by the way, this is all documented on my YouTube channel. Skull, Bells TV, SK U LL, b e, LL Z. But that was my experience the first show when I when I did a refeed on protein about 80 to 90% of my calories were coming from protein and 10 or 20

percent for fat. So it's definitely harder on the digestive system, it you definitely feel bloated when you go to bed and you wake up feeling bloated, But it enabled me to get really hard and dry around 10 11 and 12 o'clock the following day, which is, which is help, which is kind of what you want. Right? Because that's that's prejudging. I wasn't as as lean and paper-thin skin, the way that you describe in your book on the as I was on the first show.

But I was able to fill it, but I was able to fill out and get bigger had to chop some more walk. The probably some more water retention and and Some more glycogen that was all playing a part in that too because I was still in ketosis. How was your energy between the two? Oh and energy is always. It's it's it feels more like a high carb diet when you're when you're using gluconeogenesis, right?

So a high-protein refeed, you get basically complete not could not completely knocked out of ketosis but you're running more on glycogen than you are on fats. And so that's more similar to a high carb diet and that regard. So my, so my energy is great when like a like around. 11:00 o'clock the next day. So that's why my workouts are usually around that time when I'm doing a high-protein approach, like clean bulking, mmm.

But on on keto, my energy level is, it's never really as euphoric and like, is Sky High as I can, as I can get it. If I time everything perfectly with the high protein approach, but my energy levels and more consistent throughout the day. So I like it right now, at this point in my life, my macros are 280 grams of Protein and 320 grams of fat, which I normally wouldn't do on a strictly in bulk, but I'm not clean bulking

right now. That's just, I find more stable energy throughout throughout the gym working throughout the day, more consistent energy levels. That's a lot of calories mean. I mean how I count as isn't, so I'm not tracking calories anymore because I just got basically my butt kicked by Bart K on his Channel about about calories. And and he just told me everything that I already knew is true. I'm not No calories, don't make sense. Like okay.

So apparently I'm eating for forty two hundred calories a day right now. Yeah, I weighed 195 pounds in six foot one. And so if I was eating 420 440, 200 calories a day right now, the only way I can get away with that is because I'm in ketosis. If I do that on a high carb diet, I for sure, would get fat. I've never ever been able to maintain a reasonable. I've never been able to, I'm probably like 10 pounds away from stage, right right now.

And I can't do that. If I have that amount of carbs in my diet, no way. Yeah. I'm the same way and it's crazy man. Because like, you say that to the traditional, bro, diet If It Fits your Macros gonna like, yeah, you just tracking wrong, you know, but it's like, look I've done the math Every Which Way and it does not assume. Yeah, I can consume, you know, I so caloric intakes from a carbohydrate based approach and a ketogenic based approach, and I don't put on as much fat with

keto, you know. No question. That's it doesn't mean you can't gain family Quito. You certainly can, but when calories are equated for in my experience, I'd look like dog shit. If I'm eating that many calories from carbs. Yeah, I'm the exact same way. And so and so, it's funny, you bring that up because on the night of the sun on the night of November 4th, that one I wanted to come in condition because it's because it was natural, it was drug tested.

Right? So my card, my best chance of winning is going to be lean, that's where I screwed up because the judges, it's still NPC judges and they still, it's not. It's not like, BF. They they want to see size and muscularity more so than conditioning even though they value conditioning. Yeah. And I don't think I don't think ones necessarily writer. They are the other ones wrong or anything. It's just kind of what the judge is typically look for, but so that was kind of my bad going

into that show. I should have, I should have thought better ahead and, and focus more on mass, but on the fifth, that's when I filled up on sweet potatoes and yeah, no, man. My gut was a wreck the next day, it was It was about 8 or 9 pounds of sweet potatoes, I lost track after after that, many of them because I was up all night trying to trying to fit trying to fit them all in, but I, but

yeah. So I gained so, I gained a couple pounds, then I got fifth place in classic physique, which was kind of like, my I didn't, I didn't even think I would place. I was doing backflips when I got that, man. I was so happy. Yeah, no, for sure, man. Did you so you put on some water weight, you filled out as you notice an increase in vascularity or is that pretty much? No. Yes. REI decrease in vascularity for sure. Like I was I'll softer but it

was at that point. I was just doing everything I can possibly think of the place. Yeah. Huh. It's interesting, man. Because like, a lot of people, a lot of people have come to me by, you know, you should try to experiment with carbs now that you've been keto as long as you have the kind of compare the two and it's like, I don't think there's a need to I mean, I would definitely look a little thicker but I don't think that my best Clarity would be improved.

I don't think any of those like tangible benefits would exist. And honestly, I've got photos from when I was using carbs during my peeking strategy, before I ever went Quito and I've got way more vascularity without the carbs. Mmm. So yeah. And and you and I both have a history. Let's just be honest. Both of us have any history of eating disorders that there's that are scary. And so like for you and me kind of need to stay away from carbs

in the first place. And if And if we can, if we can do it without him then why not just do it that way? So yeah, right now I'm not consuming carbs and haven't for quite a while and I don't think I will. Yeah and honestly man like I think I've the man oh man I'm talking at metronome but I think I could probably introduce carbs and not return to those disordered eating Tendencies.

I feel like I've gained enough traction and just you know, foundation in my own life or that would not be a concern. However, I don't think there's any inherent benefit to, which is why I don't like, I don't feel like I'm missing out by not having them. For that. My performance is hindered. I don't feel like my physique is hindered. I don't feel like I'm better off for having them. I feel like I'm better off for not having them. Yeah, 100%.

And I don't think that's the same for everybody. I mean like there's a third of the people in training right now they're on more like paleo hybrid diets and so their carbs are strategically around their workouts. And that's how they perform the best. And I'm like, I don't have the heart to take the cards out because because I do it because they're doing great with them, you know. Yeah. Yeah. How do you but it's not everybody. It's not me.

It's certainly not me and it's certainly not you. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's more than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes. I don't ever want to villainize carbs like I don't ever want to be that guy by any means, but I my frustration is that when people in the competitive sphere say, look, you'll never reach your full potential, unless you have carbs like that. I don't buy that at all. So, and we had the podcast with a bark.

A go Man, I was scared out of my mind the way he introduced me because I was I have to admit I was kind of unfamiliar with his content before. Yeah. And so I didn't I didn't realize what I was getting myself into Jonathan Griffiths, the carnivore bodybuilder from the UK. Uh-huh. Those those two are really tight and so he was polite enough to create an introduction for me there. And yeah, I was introduced basically.

As this is called Milton the carnivore bodybuilder claiming that you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. Sure, he knows all the science to be able to back that up. Otherwise you wouldn't be on this show. All right. Cool, welcome. This is gonna be interesting and I was like, holy crap, I did not, I did not know. I was walking into this, this stuff. It was pretty rapid fire in and I was just right off the bat like, hey, I'm a lab rat.

Okay, so I'm gonna be saying my experience, it's a lot, a my clients experience a lot and, and, and and these results a lot in those results, a lot, but to be able to cite everything. On a scientific level the way that your listeners are used to understanding it. That's that's, that's going to be tough for me to articulate, but I'll try. Yeah, we'll see. So he was grilling you pretty good then, huh? Yeah, but he, but he was, he was

super nice about it, though. I mean, like, he could have, you know, his, his brain in the way that he understands science. Is so far ahead of, you know, where I'm at, because I'm an athlete and a coach and more of a mentor, right? That's more my angle on on coaching. And so, that's kind of why I've related to your book more than a lot than, like, Paul Sally knows book and a lot of those other more research heavy ones as IQ and you.

And Shaun Baker, both have an ability to take something that's very complicated. And, and simplify it in the way that someone like, you know, simple like me can Connecticut understand, but there's a lot of validity in that, you know, just

like experience. And like a lot of people that are coming from, the scientific realm, like to downplay anecdotal evidence, but I'm like it all Oh, it all matters, like it all counts, like, take it all in and then assimilated and then test it and then see what you can make sense of. I actually just had Bart on my podcast. That one has not yet gone live. It will have been by the time of this publication but oh, man, I'm gonna go listen to that.

That that, that would be fun. I would love to just sit back and be a fly on the wall and they listen to you two guys BS and say, okay what's your take on this? What's your take on on calories? And you know yeah it was a good conversation for sure but he's definitely very much so you know, data-driven, you know. So Interesting stuff, but he's going to have me on his podcast and I'm yeah I'm asking you if he's grilling you because I'm curious to see if he'll grow on me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I am not like this. I'm not like a walking talking Encyclopedia of citations. Like I can't pull citations out. Like, like a lot of people cannot, that's not my strong suit and I think, right? You, yeah, I think you did it right, you know, by saying off the bed. Hey, look, that's not me. I'll tell you what I've experienced. I think you can't go wrong with that. Yeah, thanks it was. It came from a spot of humility but it also came from a spot of like, hey, let's just be logical here.

I'm not, I'm not going to win an argument if we get into an argument. Yeah, no, that's good though, man. It's good. But he was too, but sorry, answer your question, he was very polite about about that. And so I think I think he and I both just realized that, okay, we're two people that are very, very passionate about the same thing like the exact same thing. We really believe that carnivore bodybuilding and meat-based bodybuilding is the Bodybuilding in the future.

But how do you describe it? The Fountain of Youth? Yeah. What did he say about the build muscle lose fat at the same time? Was he knocking that? It was. He like this? Totally doable? Yeah. See it's. So it's so his show is a debate, right? And so like and so I was like and so when so when he asked the question, I knew that he and I both agreed on it, but I think he was curious as to how I was going to explain it. Yeah. I don't know.

No, really, how to explain it. I just like, I just know that it works, like, I just know that if I go from eating quote, quote, 4,000 calories a day, to, to those same amount of calories, but have but but but but take cards cards completely out of the equation. There's a lot that changes hormonal e, that changes the law of thermodynamics and and the human body is just very very complicated. So to be able to explain it in in terms that are that simple.

Is it stuff? So anyway, I guess long story short. Yeah, no, we we both we both agree on the same thing but just have completely different angles on on, how we get to that conclusion. Yeah, no, for sure. And I feel like that's when I started talking about calories and that's when he started cutting me off and he was like, yeah, I mean, like, the calorie thing is interesting too. Because, like, I'm all for tracking calories, like I have never kind of just weird.

Like it's such a polarizing subject and I think it shouldn't be. I mean calories and My mind is just I mean you can swap that word calories out for fuel and take, you know, use whatever word you want to use. It's just overall. Yes, I think that's what Sean Stephenson calls. It, the model Health show guy. Yeah, yeah. He's a super smart guy. And, you know, like the the lane Norton's of the world, I've had Lain on, I think once or twice as well.

It's like, I know. Yeah. It's like, you know, he's obviously very much so in favor of calories and he makes a good point in that look calories is simply a unit of measurement. He's not suggesting that the calories in a donut are going to impact you from a health standpoint. The same way that a calories in a steak are going to go into. It's just like they're both just simply units of measurement. Just like, you know, 5 pounds of dumbbells and 5 pounds of olympic plates.

They're both 5 pounds are just too different, you know, mediums. So like when you distill it down to that since yeah a calorie is a calorie is a calorie but People who don't think that nuanced, they start associating that of, okay, 50 calories of donut is the same thing as 50 calories of rib eye with how it responds with everything in the human body and that's where it gets kind of murky.

Yeah. And then it's like okay, you think that's going to be consistent with every single bit of activity that you're doing the next day? You want to start talking about non next exercise activity thermogenesis. It's like right now, I'm sitting, I'm sitting down and my, my legs are moving. Back and forth. It's just, you know, it's just a good ergonomic position. But on the last show that I was on, I was like I was standing up and which burns more calories.

I don't know. But is that, is that it is, that as is that a small thing? That's like that really changes a whole lot and of itself. No, but if you have 20 things that are all off by five or ten calories, quote-unquote calories. Then that's going to throw your numbers off to. I mean tracking calories in the first place is just It's not, it's not. I don't see where it fits in. I really don't.

And it's like, I kind of made this point when I made that video about keto Brooks and how, like we're changing some of the packaging and everything because like calories, like any packaged food and honestly like rib eyes, and all that stuff. Like like anything, any food, any nutritional label at all, like those estimations for calories. You know, macros proteins fats, carbs like those are all estimations and they're all rounded.

Like there's like the whole concept of there being four grams or 4 calories per gram of carb 4 calories, per gram of protein in nine calories per gram of fat. Like those are all rounding oftentimes it's 3.76 or 8.42 like it's not always those solid numbers. We just simply default to that easily rounded generic, you know, formula and nobody like these companies are not putting all of their food product into a bomb calorimeter to measure the

actual caloric value of that. Like, that's just not Opening. So to track calories to track, macros is good and you're able to use it. If you are consistent with the types of foods you're consuming and you just let that consistency. Basically, average out those differences over time. If you're eating something different every single day and it's gonna be very hard to get any type of accuracy dialed in whatsoever.

Yeah, 100% 100%. I mean, like even just to your point of changing the foods that you're eating every day. Day, if you're on a competition prep and you want to know exactly what's working for you and what's not working for you. You want this to be a healthy competition prep and not just your eating nothing but cucumbers by the end of it which is like what most people do. Yeah.

But but but if you want, if you want to be tracking every single thing that you're that, you're that you're putting that you're putting into your that you're putting into your body and, and tracking every single one of these metrics. As soon as you change one food, And that could throw everything off. Yeah, for sure.

And I'm all for having a, you know, comprehensive list of foods you consume because I think having that variety of, you know, nutrient pools is important but like all what revolving around, you know, pretty solid base. Like, I had pretty much, you know. Yeah. I'm going about like four, five, six, different foods throughout the entirety of a competition prep, which for me is like four to six months long. So that's not a whole lot of variety in the grand scheme of

things. Yeah, for you, It's like wet ground beef eggs keto brick venison? Yeah, maybe some shrimp if I need a lot of really lean protein, maybe mean, maybe some yogurt like a full fat yogurt, but that's pretty much like that's my ear. And then your coffee honestly it man. I cut coffee. I haven't had coffee in two weeks now, but how? Yeah, most caffeine are you consuming right now? I'm consuming less than 50

milligrams a day. And that's really neat because you used to be like Over 1,000, right? I used to be over 3,000 at 1.30 okay. I was doing the same thing and I that put me in the hospital with a stomach ulcer that was this time last year. Yeah yeah yeah I definitely don't recommend 3000 milligrams of caffeine. I was probably as of late. I've been consuming two cups of coffee and that's been my only source of caffeine. So what's that probably like 400 mg less than 5? I would think.

But yeah, lately, I've just been having one or two cups of green tea in the morning and there's like 25 milligrams. Of caffeine and that. So I mean, it's definitely less than 50 milligrams a day total. Wow and honestly I feel great man. Like I didn't really cut the coffee because I thought I had an addiction to Coffee.

I don't think that was the case at all, but I started having some some not acid reflux but I would just like wake up and I would just burp all the time and it wasn't like crazy you know, like grossberger just like I don't know, just a little burps. I think it was because of the acidity in the coffee. So I cut out the coffee for like a week and that didn't notice that. And then I had a bunch of tomatoes, one that had A bunch of Caprese salad. So tomato, mozzarella, olive oil and basil.

And I noticed the same thing. I'm like I haven't had coffee what's going on and I on the acidity of the tomatoes is got me good doing the same thing. So I think it's the acidity that's got me. Wow. That's why I'm actually saying, have you noticed, have you noticed like an overall sense better sense of well-being and just like happiness and kind of like less stress and anxiety from reducing your caffeine intake, man. I mean, honestly, I think I was drinking.

So little coffee, the past several months, following two cups a day that it wouldn't have made it that profound difference. I mean, I didn't even get a caffeine headache. When I cut the coffin, I just kind of cold turkey. So like I had weaned off of it, pretty low at that point. But now had I done that after having that stretch of drinking 3000 milligrams of caffeine a

day then yeah. I'd probably see a pronounced difference in anxiety and stuff, but yeah, I don't feel, I mean, I'm always stressed with like, the business and stuff, but I don't really feel like I'm like, I don't really get the coffee Jitters per se. Okay. Because I do so like, if I yeah because if I'm I'm on like 150 200 mg Max. That's that's that's a 80 mg caffeine energy, drink and then a scoop of the pre-work That I sell, which is metabolic nutrition.

So that's about a hundred and yeah, so that's okay. No, excuse me. So I'm probably a bit about two hundred eighty milligrams of caffeine because I know that's about 166. It's I take a third of a serving and a full serving is 500 mg, which is ridiculous. That's a lot of campaign, but I think that you're taking in less than 500 milligrams. A day total for some, especially with some of your size. I think that's totally reasonable. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And it's all early. In the day, first thing first thing during the day, and so that it's for sure gone out of my system long before I go to bed. Yeah, for sure for sure what's life been like for you post competition, like how did the reverse tag because you're you said the last shows in November. So I mean, you get December January February, you like two and a half, three months post, show has the reverse that been going. So I did a reverse diet but I was okay.

So I did the whole competition prep on a meat diet on meat-based diet, which I think is the only reason. I survived. And that was that. I'm here to tell the story. Like, I don't recommend, anybody doing a bodybuilding shows, a wonderful experience.

And like you said, like that, man, that that like you say in your book, like, it'll, it'll change you as a person inside and out and, and who you become on the other side of it, how well, you know, your body, how, you know, your daily rituals, just who you are as a person, your mental toughness. That's what you get out of the show. And so that's totally worth it. Doing four of them back to back. I would not recommend anybody do that and I'm certainly not going

to do that ever again. Again yeah it's a Lawman but face before we dive in the reverse Diamond, let me ask you on that note, like was there a point at which you were like? This is costing me my sanity. I am about to go batshit crazy in 321, like, was there a point where you were like on the the,

the breaking point? That's about how I felt all day every day, the last four weeks before November 4th, and I don't think I would have gotten through it without my Bible my journal, my dog and a couple really good joints whenever I need one. Yeah, and an amazing supportive wife in some sponsors and and a big support group, a bunch of clients that were believing in me and want and wanted me to finish strong on a good note. Yeah, that is well, man.

Like that, that is because like, at that point and like, people that haven't done the show, probably can't read this but when at that point, when you were that depleted, but you've worked so hard. It's like every single thing you do in your mind, dictates the Body of a person. You are like, if you, if you have half a single rep, you are. So so subject to just assume that you're a terrible person. So exactly thing you and I like you can't cheat.

You can't like the best. Like, yeah, you and me both know the one thing that I'll throw us off and make us really go crazy as if we fall off of our diet to. And so that, that holds you accountable. You like man, every meal has to count. Every workout has to count. You know, every, every, every hour of sleep has to count. Yeah. Thing is so regimented in like yeah, it's brutal man.

So like I'm glad that that that that that you have crested the hill with that with that crazy competition season. All right. Yeah, yeah. We just got to a point to where I was. It was like, it was it was a great idea. Now, looking back, I'm like, okay, we accomplished a lot, like we'd learned a lot. Got a lot of great content and

an overall. Like it was definitely a win, but I certainly made some choices that I'm not proud of that, that needed to, you know, I need to get fixed right away in the first one was just not not going to church every Sunday. Not going to Bible study as much that really, I didn't realize how much that created who I was as a person and just like how I act every day. And so, I started swearing a lot more in just like, you know, not around that positive, iron, sharpens iron Association that.

I wrote that, I really needed. So, getting back into that. Actually, you know, you know, you'll really get a kick out of his after I started going back to church and after eyes and I had a few months of just a few weeks of just like a lot more food and and feeling better overall not having the stress of those others last. Couple shows my physique was better and my for sure, my best physique that I've ever picked out was exactly one was exactly two weeks after the show.

Yeah there's something to be said for that man, like I think the the stress endured during those last couple weeks, oftentimes creates a lessened physique So what I'm going to try to do going forward is basically almost reverse diet into the show, if that makes sense.

Like, like start bringing overall calories back up in the weeks, leading to the preps that I still do my protocol to the T like it is. But then rather than like I basically just make those last couple weeks, an overall net increase in total calories as opposed to cows, getting continually lower and lower and lower and basically just kind of reversed that into the show basically. Lee. I had to be great from a stress that I want to see. Yeah.

That would be like reduction stress and then like if you start eating more at that point, it's all you're thinking many ways he's aren't anymore and then yeah, you you have less overall stress your more sympathetic or parasympathetic state that allows you to flush more fluid excess, fluid your workouts, the better your recovery be better, everything's better. Yeah, and you'll look better. And then like you're you're you just Don't take everything. You can see. You can hold.

You can hold your poses better like with a smile on your face, everything's better. So that's all. I'm having more fun posing than I ever have in my life, man. Because I'm not even posing for a competition. I'm just like, okay, we're just maintaining, you know, ten pounds above stage weight, which still looks good. At least in my eyes. I think, I think it does, and

for sure. Now, I can practice posing how I want to pose and not beat, not being judged with it and having those stress levels nice and low. Just like you were saying, but now we got the business stress and have two different subjects. Always stress of some sort. So what did you do? Like with the reverse so to speak? I mean, did you have a pretty

clean reverse pretty slow? Pretty pretty, you know, strategic are you pretty much just go and they coming out of those, those several sweet potatoes for that peaking strategy, kind of make it harder to return to some degree of strictness? Yes, I started experimenting with them so I would throw them in. I would take him out, throw him in, I would take him out, but overall ER, all it was for the for the next two months. I was, I was, I was not kedo, to be honest.

It's I'm sorry, man, don't hate me for saying this, but I was just sick of Quito. I really was. I was, I was, I was ready for some more protein. I was ready for some lean protein and that's actually some of the fastest muscle growth I've ever seen in my life was annexed. What was the next couple months? If you ever heard about the anabolic window towards he's not the anabolic window, what's it called?

The those couple weeks after the show that like, Jay Cutler, and all those guys are saying that that's the best time to Build muscles. Yeah, I don't know what the Bro term for it is. I've drawn a blank anabolic rebound, I think. Yeah, it sounds right. Okay. So yeah, I so I think maybe it was the anabolic rebound, but my, but my protein I just went, I just kind of went nuts on it and let it go through the roof. I was like, whatever I can over consume protein, it's not going

to get stored as fat, right? Yeah. So, that was kind of the goal kept the fat levels low for the next couple months suffer, a lot of inflammation but whatever, it's like, if you're building muscle, you're definitely going to have information, there's no way. Round that whatever. So that took me all the way through Christmas Christmas. That was a Gong Show. I'm just gonna be honest, that was a week of eating, a lot of food that my that was that was, that was certainly not food that

agreed with my body. Yeah, took me about two months of, not eating sugar. Again, excuse me, two or three weeks of not eating sugar, again to feel like myself and feel great eating nothing, but meat every day and finding out exactly where my maintenance level. Of protein and fat should be not adding any more carbs. I just feel better without carbs, mental Clarity, everything is just, I just really would rather not consume them, not not focused on bulking this year.

I'm training for a marathon right now. And so Mike, you know what, this next year, I'm just going to maintain my body weight between about 195 to 205 pounds, probably like around around that ballpark and just focus on the muscles that are that, that I, that are really really important, which for me is side though. Else and vastus lateralis, not going to train calves. There's no point not going to train ABS. There's no point, okay? Estrangement down and you're

going to get those chicken legs. Now, I'm not getting chicken legs, man. I'm hitting the, I'm doing Blood Flow, Restriction. I got all kinds of tricks up my sleeve for your grass. You can do bfr for cows. No, not for calves because I'm just again, I'll just be flat-out. Honest, I'm just, I don't really train calves. I'm just genetically gifted there, so I don't, yeah, they don't need to be bigger. My quads need to be bigger, not my calves. Yeah, man. Cavs have been my freaking like

Achilles heel for forever. I've always had scrawny little calves. I've been training him, I trained every day. There's only way I'm going to go with Phantom every single thing. You're one of those guys. Yeah, yeah, it's brutal. Hey but you of all people should not be playing a violin about your genetics man.

You got you got dealt a really good hand you guys like I did not man, like I did not at all genetically, you know, my parents are super small, they don't have like, they're not predisposed to build muscle at all. And I I was super Smiles, £115 man. Like, I've had to fight for every freaking ounce of lean tissue I put on my frame, I didn't not have genetics from a science standpoint. I probably have pretty good genetics from like an overall leanness standpoint.

Like I'm right now like 16, 17 percent body fat and my 16 17 percent body fat looks like most people's 10 11 12. I think, I don't know why, but that seems to be the case. Wow, But I don't know, like there's always given take like, like people that have a really hard time getting lean, they can put on muscle, like it's nobody's business.

You got some people that are really gifted at getting lean but they can't put on muscle save their life, you know, so there's always a give and take right. But do you ever trained traps like your traps are huge? No, I mean, not really man. Like I'll just some time to do some shrugs. I made you some upright rows on occasion, but I honestly do not allocate much training time for for traps at all. Yeah, I don't either. I was just curious because I because I don't touch it.

Don't I don't touch a dumbbell for shrugs or anything. Like it's just all you do your deadlifts and upright rows and overhead presses and you can kind of check that box and it just makes you slouched if you over Developing. Yeah. Are you doing like a body parts but right now. Are you doing? Well, what's your foot looking like? Let's see shoulder. Okay?

So the rule is shoulders and specifically side deltoids and rear end and rear deltoids for me and vastus lateralis my quads, those muscle groups if they can move their we get there, getting worked everything else kind of Falls in in order of importance and so for me that's arms arms. Weak point for me back is is is good, it could be better,

everything could be better. Obviously, glutes and hamstrings, not too concerned about them and so those muscles are all less frequent and yeah most of my to answer your question no it's not as strict split. Yeah it's very it's very intuitive right now and so I'm just writing down everything that I do and then next next time that I do like Oh next time to I do shoulder press. OK, I know exactly what I was doing on shoulder press.

When's the next time I'm going to do shoulder press, I don't know when my when my arms when I can when I can do it without my rotator cuff hurting, that's the next time that I'm going to do dumbbell shoulder, press, you know. Yeah, yeah. No that makes no sense man. I've been kind of fun right now. Might not all my clients is the complete opposite there, do it. They're doing push-pull legs.

Everything exactly like this because I can't teach the way that I train, unless I'm You like 24/7, so everybody that we're doing online plans with. No, that's very systematic, that's different. I'm the lab rat right now. Yeah. Well there's there's some beauty to be had and just training intuitively to I like that for sure. Most of the training is intuitive. I've been doing a full body

split. I'm giving that an honest effort, I've been in there for like shoot, I don't know probably four or five months now and I do like that, but I don't know if I'm gonna keep that up. When I start my prep, I'm going to go back to more of a body. Part split when I start my prep. Mmm, I haven't decided yet. How's your foot doing? Is it totally healed up, thanks for asking. It's yeah, man. I was, I don't know if I don't know if I told you. I'm kind of, I'm kind of a

goofball. I'm kind of a nerd when I do count. When I do count rap, sometimes, sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. But when I do count reps, I, I think about my favorite Bible verse that has the same number of words per reps. You did to me this one last podcast. Yeah, member. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So so so my latest one has been When I see, we are healed by his wounds, Isaiah 53:5. So, so that's nine reps.

And yeah, so a lot of my leg training has been has been around that rep range because I haven't trained around that rep range before had always gone either really heavy or really High Reps. And so, so that's been something new and something different. And it's just challenging in a different way, because they have really worked in that in that rep range before, but I'm still going with the What's his name? Greg just dragged. You said, I have to be Pro.

He's big on time under tension. So yeah and taking and so is Bart K but he's also big on on 6th, a 629 reps. Yes, I've been putting the two together and and doing and and slow and making my rep slower so that their six reps. So I'm like five or six reps to failure or nine reps to failure on the high end and it's always within 30 to 45 seconds. So about five seconds. Per rep now. So yes. And so anyway we are healed by his wounds, Isaiah 53, 53, 5 that's nine reps.

And yeah I've been it's been II believe the mind body and soul are very very all interconnected and I think this probably the best thing I've been doing for my foot. No I love it. Yeah going to go to the go to the doctor of course. You know of course I did all that and everything to and it's it's back to 100% other than the Tissue around my toes, are just very sensitive.

So if I go for so if I go for a super long run like for an hour and a half then I'll be feeling it and probably shouldn't run the next day. You're like toenails growing back. All funky because you broke your foot now. Let me take my sock off and look at it right there. It's like when I dropped a plate on my tongue, crooked, because it was hanging by a thread, you remember, like, I didn't know if I would have to amputate my leg or what? But it was.

But, but yeah, no, it's just It looks the same as the toe on my other foot. It's just a little crooked. You know what I can live with that, man. Oh man, I'm glad it's sealed up. Has the has the running going man? What was the motivation to start? Running like that? Where you running before or is this totally new?

Yeah, I've always I've always loved running just be and I'm not built for it. I just enjoy it, you know, it's kind of like that bodybuilder that's not genetically gifted like we all know like, you know, I got a guy that's like that. That's like maybe not The most genetically gifted guy, but he just loves the sport and he just goes all the shows, and he does really well anyway, and he just looks good even though he's not winning all the first-place trophies, right?

Yeah, that's that's me as a runner like I'm not if I meet me crossing the finish line is going to be that is going to be the the goal is as good as going to be the win regardless of what the of what the time is and in Zion and I might my Australian shepherd and I are going to do it together so she never done a scam before. Was that have you ever done a marathon before? No no this will be. This will be. This will be the first one and when is it it's going to be around July or August.

We're trying to find exactly what show we're going to do a nice man. The one I run. One marathon. And that was pretty brutal. You ran a marathon. I didn't know that. Oh, you didn't, you didn't know about this. So, is it in your book? No. So, you know, David Goggins, I'm sure right? Yeah, of course. So I the first time I heard David Goggins is on Rogan's. Cast and I listened to it. My buddy and I'm like, this guy is badass. I'm gonna do that. He did 100 mile race.

Yeah. And he did it with zero training, I can do that. So I signed up for a marathon the next day with zero training, I had literally not run in seven years. I signed up for a marathon with zero training. I literally didn't even have a pair of shoes so I bought a pair of shoes. Got them in the mail. Wow them on ran like twice in those pair of shoes to break them in and then I ran a marathon and I finished the marathon. But yeah, it was, it was rough because my feet were just

freaking broken, man. Like they, they they were not ready like, like energy-wise. I felt totally fun like I never bonked and have any issues with that. I obviously didn't carb up or anything, I just kept it off. Keto, I fasted the whole way through but my oh Kate were not conditioned like the pounding of the pavement over and over my feet were not ready for that. What what? Okay, okay, this this I need this. I need to know. Is it okay if I ask you

questions and this is your show? But yeah I don't care. Go for it. It okay. Okay, cool. So because we just had Carly Carly kovacic on her. So she's actually one of our clients and she's a she's a marathon trainer. I'm gonna publish this in like a day or two, but it was the shoes on the other foot. No pun intended. With me asking her questions because she's she's one of our body builders she did those. Those last couple shows with me actually November 4th and 5th instant.

So she's getting ready for the emerald cup which is the biggest NPC show in. Vic Northwest. Yeah, so she's a few weeks out from that one, but she's run multiple marathons. She ran the Boston Marathon and

yeah. And so it was basically, basically, it was me asking her for advice on running marathons so I got in my, in my journal, you know, everything that she was teaching me how to do. But, but wow, yeah, no, I am very inspired after hearing about your marathon training, or lack thereof, but yeah, that makes more encouraged about how I'm gonna do it. Hello laughter. I mean I I do like running. I just have a really bad.

I knew you were a runner, which is funny because I'm not a rude first thing every morning from a bodybuilding perspective. That's not really what most coaches would recommend. Yeah, I am not a runner, I don't identify as a runner, I'm flat-footed, I'm over pronated, I'm not great at running. However, I like the mental fortitude that comes as a result of running long distances. Yes, yes. Wonderful. I like running. And I've done like I did that four by four. 48 challenge.

So basically like, you know, 50 mile, we ran an extra two miles of 50 miles and 2 days that in like every four hours, so that was pretty cool. So I've done things like that. I've done the 50 mile March but like for me my Achilles heel is just conditioning, my feet to being just beaten and beaten and beaten. If you got that dialed in, then you'll be way better off. Yeah, so my strategy has been to so Zion and I for the same reason. As you know, my Australian Shepherd.

My first thing, we do every single morning, and if I don't do this, she will have an anxiety attack. If you, if your Australian Shepherd owner, like, you know, exactly what I'm talking about. So she's like, okay, we're going for a run, I'm like, yeah, okay, we're going for a run. So that's how we start everything every single day and for the same reason is you is, it's just like, it's just like a cup of coffee. It's just like how you wake up. It's and it's different than the treadmill.

It's different than than man getting getting outside and getting some cold air in your lungs. Thing in the morning is just that was my fitness tip of the day on Instagram. Actually. I was just like, everybody should be doing this. Everybody should be getting some shit. Should be getting some cold exposure, getting outside, getting a fresh of air before you have a cup of coffee.

And then if you still need a cup of coffee, great, then have a cup of coffee but you probably won't need a cup of coffee after you, get your after you get your mind into that focused State. First thing in the morning, you got to get your mind right first? Yeah, for sure. And there's just something to be said about, like, the consistency that goes with and daily running practice. Like, I, when I did that three, Hundred sixty five days of running a mile a day, a mile a day.

I mean a mile is not that long but to do so every single day without fail, like that's where it becomes difficult. And I feel like anything that you can chip away at every single day, like I appreciate and admire that, right? Oh, thanks. Yeah. And so that, so that's the first thing every single morning, but it's not a long run, it's Oh, this morning, I just didn't want to come back soon. So I came. So so we were gone for about a half hour owning owning two

businesses. It's, we have a lot to do. We're kind of like you in that regard to where, like we're definitely working the 12-hour days right now. Hmm. But it doesn't all need it doesn't all need to be done at specific times. We've been, you know, we're pretty flexible with our clients. We have a very Hands-On approach about like when our meetings are and everything, but ya know there's days, Kind of like this used to be a training there.

This needs to be a day, where, you know, the I'm feeling really creative great. This is a Content day. Hopefully, we have a lot of workout plans that are do, okay? This is focused on all of our clients day and just kind of do that. But yeah, so that's kind of so that so that's like 10, 10 minutes to a half hour, first thing every single morning and that is, that's doable.

Like, it doesn't matter how my feet are feeling like I can tough something out for it'll just be a shorter run, if I'm not really feeling it, It. Yeah, totally man then and then that just means that intuitively.

I'm going to have to figure out that, oh, I should probably do extra cardio after my workout from a conditioning standpoint, to make sure I'm in, maintaining the physique that I have right now, and I definitely think it's like, if like I'm probably going to incorporate a lot more running after my competition, because I'll be so lean at that point.

I'll probably just wind up, swapping out, all my StairMaster for runs, because, yeah, it's gonna be a lot more fun because I like doing technical Trail runs, but I'll do that after my competition. To make maintaining that lean physique relatively easier with the added benefit of running running, and then it's and that does something to you mentally to. It's like you're not on the stairs when you're on the stair. Mel, let's be honest you're there because you're burning fat.

Like, nobody does this terrible because it's a fun activity, right? Yeah. But, but going for a run, exactly, that's something that's

enjoyable. And it's, and it, and it, and it's, and it's up. It's something that it's Something that's more Performance Based that has like an actual go. Like, if you're training for a marathon, if you're training for, you know, like a 5k or something and and then coming out of the coming out of a bodybuilding competition, it just gives you something to look forward to in something to train to and a purpose for everything

that you're eating. Yeah, if you're, if you're eating, if you're eating, you know, to do to do a reverse diet that is so strict to where it's like, okay, you're doing a half hour on the stair stair Mill. Now you're doing. Nine minutes on the stair. Now, you're doing 28 minutes on the stair Mill and you're going to play that game for the next six months. It's like, how can anybody stick

to that one long term? And it's like, no wonder people get into in the depressions after bodybuilding shows just like Olympic athletes. Do? Yeah but if you have but if but if you have a goal that you're working towards then there's purpose and every single meal again there's purpose in your training again and it's just not healthy to do nothing but bodybuilding shows, you know so it's almost like having some having something different can be super therapeutic. So yeah.

Yeah, I love my work. I love that perspective. On that note, though. I am going to go Ultra, I'm noxious Lee slow on my reverse diet nutritionally speaking. So I've had a few clients that have done this crazy, slow,

reverse diet. And man, like I am sold on it, like, like I always tell people there's two different ways to go about it, you can have a quicker reverse diet and lose that conditioning, a little bit sooner, but then kind of return to some degree of normalcy, a little bit faster, or you can go Ultra slow and strict. Like you pretty much do with your prep and you'll just, you know, continue to sacrifice that

social life a bit more. But some people like that because they can hold onto that physique little bit longer. But I've had several clients mostly female clients at this point that I've done this crazy, slow reverse diet and they just keep getting leaner and leaner and leaner even though they're eating more and more and more. So I'm definitely going to be trying that this go around now. Is there? So I'm curious is there body fat going down or are they feel?

Are they feeling out there? Muscle bellies Fuller and So there and so, they just like their skins tighter I'm curious. So they're, they're using an in-body which, you know, there's obviously issues there but they're showing a drop in body fat and increase in lean mass. Wow, so from an in my standpoint, it's all positive. You know, it's all looking good and like, just based off of, you know, physique shots like

looking at them. It's obvious that they're holding their conditioning very, very well, but they're eating literally 500 to 1,000 calories more than they were during peak week. So They're happier because the reading more and are able to maintain that, that conditioning, much much longer, I think. What's going on, is that there may be a cat. May I interject a sarcastic? Remark.

Yeah, go for it. Is this further evidence that Cal really don't matter to me. I mean, I don't think it's that calories, don't matter, there's just so many things at play here, so like if you were to say if you were to ask that from a, you know, black and white you know calorie counting standpoint. The yeah that's kind of fly in the face of that. But what's happening metabolically? I don't think that can really be as explained as in a black and white, you know, equation is too

much gray area. Yeah. A lot of gray area for sure. But did you start as soon as you start eating more fuel now, you're twisting that are you're twitching more now, you're facing your neat. Activity goes up your overall metabolic before and after show. Yeah, for sure. So lots of factors at play, but I got like when they're doing this, like, I don't know, man. Like I'm so that's what I'm going to be doing and I've done

pretty slow. Verse that's in the past like typically, three months is a standard reverse died for me. I'm literally going to take my reverse diet as slow as my prep itself. So it's gonna be like a full year, six months that down, six months to reverse dying. But what's happening I think is that they're staying lean long enough? That their body is basically, resetting it's homeostatic set point at that considerably leaner conditioning while still able to eat more foods.

Like your body wants to find homeostasis, in Citrus, Heights to stay there. But if you stay low, Lean long enough. It's going to make that the new set point. So you think that's what I'm experiencing right now because I've never been able to stick to still see my abs like this. I have not Mmm. Yeah, it's very possible. I mean, if you've been maintaining that conditioning for long enough, then your body's going to kind of re stabilize that as the new Norm quote unquote. Yeah, it's not.

It's the certainly not the fastest way to build muscle, but now I would rather I'd rather you stayed close to Stage, wait kind of like you and then have to cut less. Time and lose less muscle on my next trip. Yeah, I think, you know, staying for me. Staying within about 20, 25 pounds, Max of stage. Weight is key light right now. I'm 180 and I compete at like 160 so I'm like women 20 pounds of stage weight, which I like

the way I look. Now I'm feeling I feel good about it, so it's not a drastic thing. Like if you get the point where you feel, you know, unhappy with how you look in the offseason just for the sake of building muscle, but you're like to press with, how you look like. That's not a good thing either. Exactly. Yeah. It's like if I got to 2025 pounds higher than my stage way that would put me at about 210, my I just hate how I feel when I'm when I'm at heavy, I do.

I just I like, I like how I feel around, a buck ninety five to two hundred and and that's my sweet spot. If it means that I won't be as competitive because I'm not willing to to gain weight any faster. Like I'm okay with that. But I really don't think Think you have to put them, there's definitely a point of diminishing returns of putting weight on to build more muscle. Like the, you definitely need to be ideally eating it somewhat of a surplus to maximize muscle building potential.

But if you are like just getting sloppy and then just eating for the sake of eating and you're getting unnecessarily fat. I think that widens a pain during your performance. Because like, if you are overweight the point where your cardiovascular health and conditioning is hindered, then you're not really going to be able to train which is this

String with maximum intensity. Like, if you're getting winded, after three reps of squats and you're not going to be able to maximize your squat performance, which is going to hand your value, put on more lean mass, right? So this and as an aside note, what you said just reminded me of something that got us thinking about earlier but when it but when it comes to training for endurance and training for and training for Aesthetics, what makes sense.

On paper is one thing and then Anecdotal evidence. And looking at the big picture is can be quite another because in my training right now I'm yeah, like, I'm probably losing some. It's this isn't this isn't the best. This isn't the best way to have big legs running a marathon right now. There's probably some muscle tissue that's being lost. Let's get really honest but But if but if I can train better because my cardiovascular health is improved throughout the week,

I mean that's a net win. Yeah. I think when I was running the the one mile a day which again is not a far distance at all, but I felt like what we do in the mornings. A mile, two miles a day. Yeah. Enjoy that. And I didn't really see it drop and strength.

But I do think especially with a ketogenic diet, you know, you can absolutely as you get more deeply fight adapted, replenish muscle glycogen you know efficiently in Absence of carbohydrates, your body is going to be less likely to use Muscle glycogen because it's more preserving, you know, more preservative towards that. But if you're doing two-a-days and you're running in the morning and training the evenings, or vice versa, that makes it harder to replenish

that muscle glycogen. So even though I was only running a mile a day, I felt like my muscle glycogen reserves were not as efficient at staying camped out, if that makes sense. Oh yeah. No, if I don't work out soon after my run. Run. It ain't happenin later in the day, there's no way. Mentally, I can't do it and, and just and physically, my glycogen is gone by that point because I'm on two meals a day right

now. First first meal is about 40 or 50 grams protein, 40, 50 grams fat, dinner is everything else, so it's a huge meal. Yeah. And so if I, so, if I missed that Trent, that training window in the morning, my glycogen suffers, but that's, that's more of a problem when my protein is very high. My fats, very high in my proteins relatively low. It's easier to it's easier to pull off. Yeah, that makes total circuit which is why I hate the night.

The night, the night time part of competitions, because I'm always just kind of a kind of a wreck trying to stay awake at that point. Yeah, my bedtime is like 8:00, man. Like these competitions that are seriously, like he's gonna kick my butt. Yeah, is that so yeah, and when you start having kids and stuff, to that changes things real quick and you need to get to bed earlier. Yeah, I was talking to somebody

man. I don't know who It was but they were saying that the competition went into 1:00 in the morning may have been Dakota obvious here but like there was competition. I went to 1:00 in the morning and I'm like good night man, that's way past my bedtime. I couldn't hang could not hang. So what are you going to do? Like you do the marathon and then what are you gonna do? Like what's your plans long-term?

From a competitive set strategy are going to do another competition like body building competition? You're going to focus more on the running for the next little bit. Well, my wife do some, my wife, Taylor's doing All right, now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. This is, this is her first year. And, and dude, one of the coolest things that I hear every day is just the the conversations that the she's having with your with your wife, man.

She's just been the coolest role model and influence on Taylor and she's just been, it's funny like there's, they're so they're so nerdy about like reading the same Bible passages together and talking about Mom life and everything, but I don't know for whatever it's worth. I just wanted to say that it's kind of cool because like man, you and I met each other long before they met each. Other but they know talk much more frequent than we talk on the phone all the time man.

Yeah which is cool to see like as a husband. You know, it's like you want you want your wife and your kids and everybody spending spending spending time with relationships that that you know, that are good for them. And the same thing with with Taylor me to like she was she was like I do not like the person you're coming into the more the the last time that you spend with people to church and she didn't work she didn't word it that way because Very respectful. But that's what.

But but I but I knew it and she knew it. And yeah, those kind of first thing you need to do needed. To change was just making sure that in my calendar, every single week I'm spending time with someone in my church that is older than me because those are the kind of people that I need to be around. Yeah. And being not being on peep on podcast, with like people, like you that I respect. I mean, these are these are real quality relationships man so I really, really cherish this

time. But yeah, for sure, man, my pleasure. Yeah. So it's so thanks. So tip, so Taylor's doing her first show this Here and she's yeah. Doing it on basically so far. We've treated your your, we treated her prep as gospel for, you know what you teach in your book and so she's on Phase 2 right now. She's working on increasing her protein threshold, finding that exactly where that's going to be. Then we're going to start a start tapering macros.

We're going to do that until she can't take it anymore and then we're going to start introducing refeeds but it's not going to It's not going to be that hard core her perhaps she's doing. She's doing the wellness category. So as my seems to be a good category to kind of get her feet wet and see if she wants to do another one. But this might be a one and done thing. We don't know what's exciting, man.

It's awesome that she's going for it and going to just experience it and have that perspective, you know? Like I totally appreciate and admire that. Yeah, yeah, so that's good. That's going to be here. And then, Mark, Ennis, he's a carnivore bodybuilding coach that we're training in Ireland. He's going to fly in for that same one. And if any Few other people that are out there that are locked into those ones.

And then as far as my training goes here, again, this this this year is just to his tomb, is to maintain this physique. I just want to see. Okay, what can we do? What more can we do with the carnivore diet? How can we get these macros down 100% perfectly? What does what do people like Bart Kano? And and and mark Ennis know, and you know that I don't know that I need to learn this year and get better about mastering, you

know how? Keep the physique of your dreams, on a meat-based diet with the macro nutrients that work for that individual person. So this, so this year for me, is definitely more business that ends that and skull Bells which is, which of course, is that are the business. And that's all going pretty well the business. Yeah, yeah. It's I mean you're in a product business, you know how it goes, man.

Like you that I think in the in the beginning you probably saw I'm just guessing you probably saw Online coaching to be more profitable and then any kind of a product business. It's like you, if you can break even you're doing great and if you're still in business, five years later and you're still breaking, even you're doing great. So yeah we're still breaking even after two years and and do and doing great in that regard, I guess. But we're certainly not millionaires yet.

I don't know. Maybe will be someday. Yeah, it's brutal. Milling businesses is brutal. I love it. And it's like very challenging, very fulfilling, but man, Is, there are a lot of other ways to make money and let it easier ways to make money in life than starting a business. But I just have someone else's best interest in mind. You just like the products that I make, and the products that you make, like, it makes someone

better. They take it to the gym, they're healthier, they eat it, whatever they are. They're a healthier person B could because they use your product. That's, that's a very honest way to make money, but it's a very slow road to make money and like wise men, like shoot, I use your your rope attachment Every damn day. Thanks man. And I know your wife does to you man. Every time, every time you guys to tag Us in those videos like it means the world man. It really really does that.

That makes me so happy. Yeah. Thanks for doing sure for sure. Well, I'm glad that's going good man. Glad that is growing. I'm glad that it's a, you know chipping away at it the coaching and sounds like I mean shoot you're always taking me and you got some client plan that you're working on so that must be going well as well. Yes, yes, especially if it's something to where it's like. Okay this I this idea is definitely straight out of Roberts book.

I'm like this is like I'm just trying to give you credit man, because I mean like your I paid what 20 bucks for your book and that's like, that's been the kind of the foundation of a lot of how we've been training, everybody. Yeah, we have our own ideas and things that we do differently. But yeah, no, you really, really cast a vision for us, not just in terms of body building but also in terms of have haven't having a product and doing what you can that way with it.

You know, is you got, you got, you guys have been pretty big role models for us. I guess I'm trying to say. I appreciate that, man. Like, there are definitely times where I'm like, what in the hell am I doing right now? I don't have a clue. I messing up everything. I thought there were times where it feels like the world is falling, but honestly, man, like hearing that hearing and seeing people that are using the products and then speak highly of it. Like, that's what keeps me

going. For sure. It does, man, it's what gets you through those bad days. But, I mean, you've worked a corporate job before writer. I cannot, yeah. Like its It's just some people can do it and if you can do it, great, God bless you. But man, I go crazy working for somebody else like it's got to be something that I'm that of all especially after doing competitions, going back to what we were talking about before. How it's like every single meal has to count every single every

single workout has to count. It's like, man, like you you need to apply that to the rest of your life. And so, I don't know, I kind of have that mentality with it, with everything. It's if we're everything that we're doing right now is just Is this really gotta count? It just makes you really think about what's important in life? Yeah, for sure, man, you mentioned journaling, what are you doing for journaling? It's funny.

You ask. Yeah. Every single, every single page is different sometimes he's like the worst days ever is where I don't have an opportunity to journal, but, but, but, but I'm a, I'm a very creative person and I'm just not myself if I'm not creative creatively doing something. So I definitely am on somewhere on the Spectrum. I have never been diagnosed anything, but I but I definitely and create and creative enough

and having him. Need to focus on things that I should be able to focus on to the point where I'm like, you know what, okay, there's a few things that I'm really gifted that and let's just focus on those because that's what that's what works and what makes you feel happy and what makes me really feel like I'm contributing and doing something with my life, you know? Yeah. When yeah. Like when you, when you help someone overcome an eating disorder?

Like, that's, that's sorry, man. I'm gonna cry if I talk about that anymore. It's powerful stuff. Yeah. It's powerful stuff but you use journaling as a way to kind of like just capture those thoughts and reflect on. Yeah, sorry. So yeah. Capture capturing thoughts, especially when I was doing stand-up comedy so I did stand-up for, for a couple for a couple years right before covid. And that's how I can say it on the air, right? I don't want you to get tagged. I think, right?

I think we're good. Yeah, yeah. Well, I know that you and I agree on everything but I just, I'm just like, I don't want, I don't want to get in trouble, but whatever. But yeah, so that first So those last couple years before the pandemic hit, I was doing stand-up probably like two or three open nights of weeks and then and then doing paying paid gigs on the, on the weekends.

But what I was, what I learned is, man, when you get an idea and if it's a creative and idea, and it's a good idea, you gotta write that down and and not a, not just type it in your phone, but write it down the best Comics. There's a reason why Jerry Seinfeld has pages and pages and pages and pages and files of hand-written of handwritten jokes because he's a guy to get all of his ideas on paper.

There's something very very there's something very very creative and very stimulating that happens when you put a pen, do a piece of paper, what it does to your creativity and where it kind of take your ticket, takes your thoughts. Yeah. So there's times where I look back and I'm like, hey, what was that business idea? Oh yeah. No I need to I mean I just I just opened it up to the wrong page on accident.

I was like, oh I was going to talk to so-and-so about he doesn't have a this this this guy wrote a book, A book on A really good book that there's no audio book available. So I ask you the same thing a few months ago you were like, oh yeah, no, everybody definitely wants my voice to be on this audiobook. Yeah I was like yeah, that's for sure. Yeah. You got like super relaxing voice and everybody loves ya,

something. Sometimes I'll find ideas where I'm like, oh yeah, no, I need to take that one and run with it. I forgot about that one. And sometimes it's like, man, those those, those ideas sounded great. But now that I got it all on paper, I realized how dumb they all look. And yeah, we'll just we'll just Grab those. Anything is gonna write stuff down man. Like I've started like for journals in the past and not really made it a habit.

Like I've I think one, I started in 2017 and I kept it going for like, six months and it fizzled out, but I'm going to start an actual Journal again. And I'm more motivated to stick with it now because there's been so many things have been going on in my head that I need to get my thoughts out on paper with. And I picked up that journal 2017, I'm starting to read him and 2017 is when I did my first kid, agent competition, preps!

I was documenting that. So when I started, formulating keto bricks, what document that is, when Crystal, and I first started dating. So, I was documenting that. So I've got all of these stories written down and it's like, man, it's powerful for me to read those things and just have that perspective. So I need to be doing the same thing now. So it's obvious from then doesn't say yeah. And you as a writer to, I mean like you're an author. So yeah, yeah. So it's powerful. Stuff.

I mean, I think like, I would be benefiting from having that perspective, you know, recorded and be able to pull from it and reflect on it later in life. So yeah, I'm going to make make it a habit to pick that up again, for sure. Yeah, for sure. So, when's the next are you have another competition? Scheduled like three years. The future is no, there's nothing scheduled for me for a long time. As far as competing goes because goodbye my family. Really, I wouldn't have But let

me put it this way. I certainly, when Abel would not have been able to pull off these shows without a lot of support from a from a lot of family and really just encouragement. But but but might, but you've done shows. And and so and so, you know that when you do a show your relationships, I don't want to say, take a back seat.

But you have to get realistic is real strategic about the relationships of the most important because that's all you have, the emotional bandwidth to be able to be able to handle. Yeah, it's certainly about Because the none of the number of shows that I did, but I just I don't feel like it's fair to my family for me to compete anytime soon. This is Taylor's turn. So it's it's it almost feels like I'm reliving my childhood through my kids, but it's my wife is doing to show ya. So now.

So now she's the one where it's like her workouts priority and and if, if excuse my language, if Shi T hits the fan and something goes downhill at home and there's like temper tangent. We got toddlers bro. So you Now what's going to happen here, but like, but if there's like a family emergency or whatever and just whatever reason, one person can't do the work, I'll get a bad phone call from.

I don't know a client that has an emergency or something and and like and one of us can't work out, she gets the first workout and I'm going to have to not train that day and just be okay with it. Yeah you know that's cool and hard. Can you can you can go crazy if you if your life kind of revolves around your training and your physique? Yeah, no I think it's a it's awesome that your folks. Icing on her letting heard have that time to do that because I think she's gonna grow so much

from that experience as well. I mean everything only benefit. Yeah. Yeah it is. You know and she and she was recovering from pregnancies to it went out when I was doing my last when I was doing my last shows and I certainly like around 2019 and so she was she was not ready to make that commitment anytime then but now after doing it she's like okay enough of this it's my turn now and I'm like, you know what? I miss the athlete in her. I really, really missed that in my wife.

When we got married, we were both this funny that you and I both grew up in the Spokane area. Yeah, I thought that was interesting. So we are going to use in Washington University and we met she was on the women's hockey team and I was on the men's hockey team so she's always been an athlete. And and so to see that part of her back is really, really cool. And so our workouts are fun because there are a lot more fun now because she's not just trying to lose weight.

She's she's got something that's that. That she's got, she's got a, she's got a goal that she's working towards it and getting a little bit closer every single day, and she can see a little bit of progress every single day. So, yeah, I'm really proud of her. Thank him, and it's awesome. It is crazy. I mean, I used to work out at Eastern Washington University, like, I'd go there, I never went to that school, but my buddy that I trained with a Gold's Gym. He went there, or his wife, went

there, something like that. So he would often times want to train their to mix up the scenery so I'd go and use their gym. So that's crazy. Small small world. Yeah, speak. Speaking of speaking of her, she just walked in to grab Legos for one of our kids. Nice, we're going to grab goes back and getting. Oh, you want to say hi to Robert? Oh what's up? How you doing? Good. How are you? We're not on video itself. I'm doing Dandy. I'm doing Dandy. I hear. You're going to be doing a prep

this year which is awesome. I'm excited for you. Thank you. Yeah, I'm excited. I also hear that you and Crystal talk way more than Colton. I we talk like every day we got a game called we got to show them. What's up. I know you're making us look bad Bib and I know we're gonna, we're gonna be like, we're gonna have to talk more than they talk. So, So they feel like we're spreading all kinds of rumors and stuff.

I know Roberts been so busy and I've been so busy that we both start, we hit record and you're like, what are we talking about it? We're like, let's just see where God takes this conversation. Yeah. Actual is getting such a big. He looks so much like you. It is crazy. He is the cutest thing ever like

he is, he's the best. I absolutely love them to Pieces. It's so fun when they get into their personality or guys are like all the, all the stages are fun, but you guys are hitting a really fun stage where their purse Already start to come out and it's just yeah, super fun. It is like melts. My heart. Like I'll leave to go to the warehouse and he'll like Crystal say bye and then rides will just start waving.

Bye at me, you know, oh that's so sweet and then and then Dakota and Alyssa their their kid writer right on. Yeah. He's kind of around. He's kind of around the same age too. Yeah. He's 15 months. Yeah. Yeah. Sho'nuff. That was that was that was the best idea that you Had was to go to that. All you can eat steak house after that that brings up that Brazilian steakhouse like as an after party after our last show. So we did that with with them, it was like a double date.

Oh yeah. All you can eat meat at the end of a competition. I mean, like, it's crazy man, because like, I would go to competitions and then I would eat. All you can eat everything else like carbs and everything. I'd feel like just terrible but you can actually eat all the meat in the world, post-show, and you wake up feeling totally fine the next day. Yeah. Well and And Carly and Jarrett. They were our other clients that that were. There were there. They're definitely not Kido

there on Paleo hybrid died. So they both have pretty high carb, diets actually, and they were there with us, and didn't eat any carbs, and it was just, it was just, it was great for everybody. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no. It's the wind. Do it. That's where I'm going to be doing it from now on for sure. Post-show yeah I'll let you guys get back to it. It was nice to say. Hello. Exactly. But likewise likewise good seeing you a good talking to

you. We're over an hour and already made him realize how much time has flown, but I'm super excited for you. I'm excited for all you get going on, excited for the businesses expand and just everything you get cooking man. Where do people go to find out more about you and dive deeper into your world. Yeah, best place is going to be our podcast which is the superset. Your life.com podcast just like it sounds. So basically think of bodybuilding.com but superset you life.com that's us.

Um yeah so the superset you life.com podcast our YouTube channel is Skull Bells TV. It's all one word, SK U LL, b, e LL Z. That's where we have a podcast up, the see two or three every single week and then a couple training videos, typically is what we're working on right now. And then my Instagram is at Cold. Milton, Co LTD? M, IL tion, those are the best places to find us. Oh, and then Taylor is Instagram is Is at Taylor. Lee Milton ta y. Lor Ellie a.m. IL t 0 n XS, awesome.

And well I will link out make it easy people to find you on and let's do the follow-up podcast man. I want to I want to dive deeper into this marathon training as you get closer to that and see how that goes, for sure. Heck. Yeah, man, I'd love to come back and circle around especially if we're not talking like the like the girls are like we should be talking then. That's just kind of like our check-in, right? Yeah. I mean, honestly, Jonathan

Shane, he he was talking, is he? Not much whole bunch of running at some that I would do another another run after my competition. Oh, I know who you're talking about. Yeah. So I might do, I might just say screw it and do like a freaking ultramarathon man. Like, I just, I like doing extreme things. I might just do like this crazy Ultra trail run, dude. Yes. So let me know where it's at because I might do it with you. When is it? I know I didn't pick anything

out. This is all be post competition for me and my competitions going to go as late as November this year. So it'll be probably our honestly early next year. Here. But I might just because I like to be able to run the mountains for hunting purposes. So yeah, I just kind of want to blend all that together so we'll just see what I do. We're not doing any honey, a hunting, if I come because ions going to come with me and she will definitely want to go play

with every single deer. That's gonna that's going to be up there. So we'll just take the running. They can't go wrong with that. Yeah, so awesome. Well pleasure is always made always great catching up with you brother. Appreciate the conversation as always and we will talk soon, man. So until then you keep killing it and do exactly what you doing brother. Thanks brother. You to see him.