What's going on? Ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto Savage.com and today I have special guests. Chris Elkins of cutting-edge physiques on here. Is it gonna be cool because he is a WNBA of natural Pro bodybuilder he and I had never competed together on stage at the same time but I've seen him compete. He see me compete. So it's it's just cool. We kind of go way back as far as competitions are concerned. Without further Ado, how are you man? Good man. Thanks for having me.
How are you? I'm good, I'm great. I'm great. So I think this is cool because I've had a lot of guests on here that are that are keto. I've had guests on here that our competitors. I've not had really too many natural competitors that are not keto, so it'll be a cool contrast in just Styles, but it gives people more perspective. So it'll be good from that
sense, for sure. But before we dive into the nutrition man, just kind of bring me up to speed on on what What got you into bodybuilding the first place, man. I'm always Keen to figure out. What's people's motivation for doing the sport? Yeah, I've it's hard to say really like I just remember I wanted to look better.
So I started working out and then I found, you know, I went on the internet and I was looking at training splits I was about 27, so I was already a little bit older and I had like lift it casually as a teenager in high school just like, you know, basic stuff. Like I like a chest press. And I like this Joe Weider all in one machine in my garage and side. So, you know, I just did some stuff to stay in shape and I felt like I had decent like
shape muscles and stuff. But I was just I was like small guy growing up and then I joined the Marines and we did calisthenics and little bit of weight. Lifting did some more weight lifting when I was in Iraq. But I was just really not consistent. I never really trained. I don't think I ever put more than three to four months at a time into consistent training. And then I'll just do another hobby or fall off or whatever,
you know. And so, but I remember, I was 27. I was just kind of bored. I had broke. I was doing a lot of indoor rock climbing and had broken my hand playing catch with the football behind the office. One of my employees has like a rocket for an arm and I was like, well, this sucks and how to get surgery and I rehabbed it, but just indoor rock climbing. I loved it, but it was a lot harder after breaking my finger, I just had A screw in there.
And so but I like the way that was looking with like the resistance training that came with rock climbing, like I could tell I was building muscle. So long story short, I went online and I remember going finding key nobody then figuring out that his like whole intermittent fasting thing came from this guy lean gains and then I remember he had a link to The Hodgetwins and I went to YouTube and thought they were
funny. And I remember seeing a video from that ogas and this is like the first time I had ever seen him. It was 2012 and And it was all just like one linked to the other, you know, kind of like the way YouTube Works, how you just do this video was recommended. And I saw that he had that 2011 that versus where Matt versus Mayhem, where he competed in the
muscle man. And I was in Fremont and the Bay Area and he was in Sacramento and that shows in Sacramento and I was like, that's not very far and and I was like, oh man, this guy's young, you know, younger than me. And if he can do it, then why can't I? And I saw that he worked with a group called 3D and J and so, Naturally. I was like, oh, I could do that, why not? And so, I hit up 3D MJ, they accepted me as a client and like, look, I didn't do
anything. I didn't know what I was doing but I just, yeah, I just kind of like fell in love with the whole process of competing. And I did four shows and 2013. I did like, I was like five 5, six month bulk and I gained 25 pounds. So I started the heaviside ever, been not really knowing that if that was like, too much weight gain, or what. So if I'm like 140. 65 over the
span of six months. And, and I don't really regret it, even though I probably could have been more optimal about everything and I didn't even train legs for the first time until like 2012. Because I was like, well, I, you know, I said, I have to start training legs and so, yeah, I just, I just had a great time competing.
I did novice classes and I won. One like to novice classes so then I couldn't do novice anymore and then I took second at the Open Class, the Mayhem against Matt, and I was like this, it was surreal because I just seen this guy on YouTube and that's what like, inspired me to compete and then I'm competing with him and one of the biggest shows in the open class and and, you know, obviously my muscle development wasn't anywhere near where his was, but I still finished
second, which felt pretty awesome. So and then I did one. I want to show in my home town in Virginia Beach and I actually won the lightweight open class and you know this small shows but still like that felt amazing. And so that's like an offseason and just kept getting better and better.
It's kind of crazy man. Like you go down the YouTube rabbit home and like, Matt Oak is amazing, like the O G's from the natural bodybuilding, you know, sector and natural body, but it does not get much publicity in the first place. So not many people even know it exists but it's Cool. There's an outlet for people that that are natural, be able to step on stage and be competitive. Because I mean it's once you want to get into the sport is freaking addicting. I agree.
I had no idea that natural bodybuilding was a thing. So I never really would have pursued it as like a sport or something that I could like do long-term likes I had done some bike riding I did a triathlon. I've done a half marathon but never really felt like I could be like competitive in those like that would be like oh cool, I can finish a race. I get a participation in metal basically, right?
But with with bodybuilding I would never even thought to compete in that because I didn't want to ever take. Like I didn't know anything about steroids and I didn't want to take steroids, but I just assumed that in order to do a bodybuilding competition, you had to be, you know, 250 pounds and you had to be on steroids. You had to look like, you know, similar to like a Ronnie Coleman type look or take color or
whatever, right? And so when I found out that there was a division for people that look like you know man Bogus in in me, not knowing you better. I thought I kind of looked like that. I was like, oh yeah, I'm that big. But even now, I'm still not that big. So it's just funny though. But like, at least I found out that there was a division for, you know, drug tested athletes,
and I thought that was awesome. So that was like, it was like a perfect fit for me. So now as like what you know, what I like to do is just try to whenever someone comes to me and they want to compete, I always ask him like, okay well you know I'm assuming that your natural have you considered doing a natural show because they almost always come with an empty. The show in mind, that, like, oh, yeah, I'm looking at this show like, you know, you're in Washington.
Do like, I'm looking at the emerald classic, whatever. And I'm like, hey man, have you thought about doing a natural show? Natural. Show us that. And I'm like, I explained, natural bodybuilding. And these guys aren't even using steroids or at least, you know, they say they're not. So I'm thinking like, man, it's just really not that well advertised. So that's what I really want to bring awareness to the sport that even I mean, who don't even know it exists. What do you think that is?
Why do you think there is so So so much ignorance around and it's just that the advertising budget isn't as big or what do you think? Yeah, I think it's a combination, you know, the NPC is one company. So it's United and they spend a lot of money advertising promoting athletes and promoting the events and natural organizations are small. You lack. The, there's no like major Olympia.
There's like, you know, wbf worlds is pretty big, don't get me wrong, but it's not, it's not like the Olympia where there's a huge Expo around it or the Arnold Classic. And then, I think that there is a freak factor to Howleen. We get a natural bodybuilding and you don't see, especially the heavyweight, guys. Look incredible.
You don't see an average gym goer looking, anything like that, but it's not as easy to see maybe in the offseason where you have a guy like Kai Greene, who is 58 250 pounds or
whatever? It's like he takes up a ton of space that guy people are gonna Two heads are going to turn no matter whether he's on offseason on season or whatever so maybe it's easier to get attention but I think it's just as you know especially with social media it's such a more marketable look like you know classic physique is really popular now but Pro natural body. Builders literally embody the classic physique I deal in my opinion.
So it's just a, in my opinion it's just a lack of Getting in, and the use of social media, I definitely think that it could be just as big if people would promote it the right way. Yeah, I agree. It's sad. I mean, like, you look at the the biggest, you know, natural bodybuilding show, like the prize money with that, you know, compared to what the biggest, you know, normal bodybuilding show is and it is totally pales in comparison. It's sad that more money isn't allocated towards?
What is a healthier path in the first place? Yeah. But do you think prize money? Really matters because I know like Like I mean it's cool to win money but I don't compete to win money. I compete for their own, my own personal. Like what what's the term? Like you know just the Fulfillment. I guess it's so rewarding in itself that I really like I don't care so much about the money. Yeah. As a pro Natural Body Butter neither neither of us are making
any money doing that. Yeah, I know but it would be nice but the one the one issue that does arise when you start increasing the Payouts is that, you know, people will look for ways to cheat I think. And that's I mean that's sucks but I guess that's just part of life you know if if there's a high reward then people are going to take the risk or they're going to do an ethical thing.
So to try to get ahead, I would a lot of people say things like oh, you know, natural body when he's not even really natural. But I disagree, I think 99.9% of competitors are clean. I mean, I'm sure there's a couple bad bad egg. Eggs out there but I think you know for the most part it's a clean sport. Yeah I agree. I think you know, a lot of people cuz I mean there's there's no reason for them to really take steroids and compete
and claim to be natural. But they have very little to gain from its you know they must have doing NPC sure word. They could get more publicity or more, you know, prize money with with natural bodybuilding. I mean, like you said, we definitely don't do it for the prize money. I mean, there's no money to be made, but for me, like that. Like you said earlier, I don't hold it.
I don't look down on people that do you stare as if that's their way to make a living, you know, they do what they got to do, but for me it just makes sense to, you know, I got into Body by the first place to pit him eyes, you know, Health and Longevity. And I feel like if I was to jump on the steroid train, I'd be sacrificing all that in the first place. Yeah, it would be a little bit hypocritical and I agree with
you. Like I have friends that use steroids and I don't, I don't look down upon them. That's their choice. As long as they're not pretending. Going to, you know what I mean? Like, as long as they're not misleading people or they're not trying to compete and a drug tested show after being on drugs like, you know, as long as they're transparent. I think it's fine. I mean, I'm not really for encouraging younger people to use steroids or to take the other, you know, the enhance route.
But what you do with your own body, I have for the most part, and pretty open about, like, have a pretty libertarian view when it comes to that. But Yeah. I mean you know I'm actually promoting a show in 2019 and pretty excited about it. It's going to be the max type Supernatural August 10th 2019. And I think I'm going to do. I'm going to use all of my social media access and just try to get as many people involved in it as I can.
What does that look like man? Cuz I've often thought about, you know, that whole process promoting the show. What does that, what does that look like? Like what is it until I guess, we'll find out, huh? She just Jumped in and decided to do one. I mean just randomly no. I mean it's something that I've thought about ever since I won my Pro card I've said hey man I would love to love to host one of these and then I just started I didn't know that we would do it.
So soon I was thinking it might not be for another couple years, but after talking to the president of the W and b, f vice president wvf and just a my business partner, Chris Barakat with Max hype. I you know this is it's our brand and we really support natural bodybuilding and I love competing wmds because we feel like their shows are pretty well run. And Drug Testing is, you know, top-notch. So we so first off Florida doesn't have a wbff pro show. So I wanted to do a pro and
amateur show. And then I wanted to put it in summer because, you know, the kids will be out of school. And there's there's a couple in California so it's not really needed in California, but Florida doesn't have it.
It Chris Barakat lives in Tampa, and with the way the airports are set up. I figured Orlando is a perfect spot and so we decided on Orlando, August 10, and I just figured like, you know, I'm, I'm competing this year next year, I'm obviously not competing because, you know, it takes time to make gains. So, I'm taking the you at least one year off, maybe two and I just figured it'd be perfect timing. So we're gonna, we're gonna link
up with an event planner. I'm talking to the Lady who ran Christian Guzmán shows the summer shredding classic and trying to work something out, but most likely will get that worked out and have her do the event planning and basically set it up. We still need to nail down a venue. And then what by the New Year we'd like to have registration open, I think by the new year will be like if someone were to compete be like 30-something
weeks out. So I mean that's pretty solid like It's a great time to start prep for a lot of people. And, and since it's a Pro-Am will I'm going to try to make it a super Pro Qualifier because I really want to, you know, I want to make it huge and get it you know 200 competitors Barakat also wants to schedule seminar the same weekend. So like similar to the like the what's it called, The Summit, whatever the you know the moment Cliff Wilson.
So that's going to be a lot of moving pieces and it's going to be exciting. And stressful, but I'm really excited for it. No, that's awesome. And so, so from start to finish what you've done so far, it's did a pretty easy process and a managed orchestrate, I mean, I'm sure he's gonna be a lot of headaches and all the communication is to do, but it's not as daunting as you would have thought. No, I don't.
I mean, I don't think it will be because the wbf is pretty good about bringing on Affiliates and they, you know, they have a plan set up especially for first-time promoters. Yes. And if it's something you're interested in, I think you should definitely reach out. And, you know, I can give you all the contact details and everything, but I think it's awesome and like, I don't think it's going to be an impossible, daunting task. Especially if you if you live like, we're the venue's going to
be like a normal person. We may have made things a little bit harder by having this having the event not local to either of us. I mean, it's an hour and a half from where Chris lives, And cross-country from me, but I don't think that's going to be a huge issue. As long as like I said, we have someone. I mean, I'm not I'm not an event planner.
So if we have an event planner handling, the that that type of logistics, and I think everything else will fall into place like they have it already set up to where you get the trophies and medals. They have the drug testing setup, they have a polygraph company.
So you know, then you just got to work on getting like a venue and a Host Hotel. Try to get the host hotel to include a couple of rooms for like polygraph testing at the at The Host Hotel, spray tanning at the hotel, that's really the hard stuff and then and then obviously you have that leaming usually the day before then you have how you're going to run the show if it's going to be like a straight through show off, you're going to have an intermission and then you know
I've already reached out with better Aesthetics for the photos and video coverage. So I'm gonna man, I think it's going to be fun. No, that's awesome man. I'm excited for you. I'll come down. They even if I'm not I won't be competing probably until 2020 but she don't come down there and support. Yeah, maybe maybe we did some guests posing or something. Hey, there you go. There you go. There you go. You mentioned something while we're talking about taking time off Man.
Dive into that. Cause that's something that, you know, we, I think is is pretty second nature because you don't have been competing for a while. We just know that's the best thing to do, you know, to put on any quality size. But man, it blows my mind so many. New competitors. They like do a show every six months or every year and nothing. Nothing ever changes. They look the same each time. So let's dive into some of the best practices man.
Yeah I really think you need at least a year of making gains and so that that doesn't mean like I mean even if you're taking a whole calendar year off you're barely getting that year and because think about it you do a show right? Let's say that you the show ends in little for me this year. Going to be November. So, the last show, I don't know.
Do we even talk about this? I'm like three days out from a show in Boston and then a little over two weeks out from wbf Worlds in LA in November. So, once once November 17th rolls around, and I'm heading to the offseason and focus on, improving the areas of my physique that I see his weak points. And and basically getting back to a normal body fat, just getting back to normal might take. A couple months, like it's
different for everybody. I know, you know, everybody calling he took a lot longer actually before. He said he felt normal and I think that was pretty much the same for him back all the way in 2013 to. So he takes a little longer to recover. I feel kind of fortunate that I can get back to feeling normal within like a month or two, which is kind of Lucky. And and I don't really take a super slow reverse. I like to just add like the five pounds right after the show and
then another five. Pounds within a month or so. So now, you know, up about 10 pounds and then slowly go from there, as you know, without without adding a ton of body fat. But it's just not it's just not feasible to try to maintain such a low body fat. So let's say you take a on average to take a few months to eat, to feel normal again, appetite mood libido, all hunger, all that stuff is like getting back to normal. Then now you can start actually focusing on gaining lean tissue.
You and not just body fat, right? And if you do that for a year, so show ended in November December January, February, a year is next February, if you were trying to compete in 2019, if you have competed in 2018, you would really have to start prepping and get an April. And that's like what. So now you had two months off basically, two months of any kind of progress. And then now you've immediately got to cut down.
You may not have even added the tissue back that you've potentially lost during the diet. In the first place. And so not only did you not look any better but maybe even look slightly worse. Oh yeah, man, it's tough. I did that one time, just to just to fulfill the requirement of competing within one year after winning the pro card. And after that, I that was in September 2015. I competed again in April 2016, but then II took off all the way until basically 2018 started
another prep. So a solid year and a half of being in a Surplus almost the entire time, so definitely need to take that time. If you really want to see any progress, does the requirement for the WNBA. Have to compete with in a calendar year. After obtaining, your pro card is that I can mean. Can it be like a week after like if I was to earn my Pro card and then do another show like a week after I'm fulfill that requirement. Yeah absolutely.
And that's probably what I should have done in hindsight then I would have given myself a nest, like six months but you know, everything happens like Everything works out, right? So I you just kind of adjust your plan and rolled punches, that second prep was probably the hardest prep ever because I was already. I felt like calories were kind of low, and I had gained about 20 pounds and then had to drop
that same 20 pounds. I felt like my upper body ended up looking better but my legs were nowhere near as good as they were, in my opinion, in my 2015 to 2016, but I've made up for that. Now I've, you know, I took my time I I end up getting a ton of great photo of your legs up. A lot of him. Thanks man. Appreciate that. Wait, I think I think one of the key things is I I learned a lot during that second, which is my
third ever prep. But it was this, the back-to-back one and about how I never wanted to take a short offseason again, basically. And then also, I got a ton of great photos. So I grew my social media in my, my online coaching and everything, grew because of it.
No you know a place like fit that a six and my first pro show I was I was content with how everything worked out so I don't I'm not like one of those guys is like everything happens for a reason but I don't regret what I did like I learned from in and I'm better now for it. I guess. No absolutely amazed. It's kind of hard because I mean, for your for your body, you want to look better each
time. He competes, you won't take that that time off, but the same time, you know, you and I both make our living, you know, promoting our business building our brand, And the coaching whatever else we're doing. So like if you take, you know, one, two, three years as an offseason that's a long time or you're not having any, you know, really eye-catching pictures. Because I mean, like, right now
I'm full blown off season. Like I don't look like I would like, I know, I can look, I don't look as good as a, as I have it in my mind to look feminine. And I've got a Fluff on me, you know, and it's harder than Market to people that because they don't even understand that process. Yes. So, mentally hard and I and that's one reason why. So with me during the off-season, I do feel like I'm a
lot more creative. So I have a lot of like that's when I can make really cool comparison photos when I'm when I'm in the moment like right now during a prep, I just don't feel quite as creative and and just all the photos are new and eye-catching as they are. So I mean you just have to find a way to come up with content that is going to help people and also gonna, you know, catch people's attention during the
offseason as well. And I think I did a pretty good job of that in 2017 and looking forward to doing that again, next year in 2019, but the main thing is people just want to
follow a story, you know? So even if you're, if you're not sure what it, at least, if you can continue to show the updates and show what you're improving on or like hitting PR's or whatever it is and the gym, and then for me with my coaching, I want to start showing a lot more client progress as well, so that it's not just me. It's, you know, it's a Whole team, which, you know, anyone that I'm coaching is part of my team. So, social media is crazy man.
It makes you re-evaluate things and do things differently that maybe you wouldn't have done otherwise like as far as you know it might be. I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to approach this offseason because I also want to start doing a lot more cycling. So I want to do some bike racing next year. I did one race, it was like the day after my birthday so it was about August 25th. I think it was was the race and it was, it was difficult.
I just need more time to train, but at the same time, like it's all power to weight ratio so you don't want to be too heavy. So now should I stay leaner? You know, I'd it's hard to say like I really don't know what I want to do and how I want to approach that made like a long Facebook post about it the other day, but it's a tough call because I don't mind putting bodybuilding and like actually gaining Muscle on the back burner but I also don't want to lose my son so down.
It'll be interesting. What do you think? That's a tough question because like there's like I asked myself that same question often because there's so many things that I would want to do but they're not really conducive to being the best bodybuilder that I can be. And you know for me like I want to have a very like I've got a lot of diverse interest but I
love bodybuilding. So that's kind of like my home base, my Foundation. I was going to go back to that and I do want to be the best bodybuilder I can be But not at the detriment of you know, experiencing some of the things that the other day I ran a marathon which is not conducive to bodybuilding at all but I just wanted to do it. I never trained for a marathon and I just I just went and did it you know. But but I like having those
experiences. Yeah it was actually 27 miles because it was like a little bit longer but yet 27 miles I had, I didn't zero training. I literally ran twice prior to doing the marathon and I did it. Go off season body butter self bouncing around out there. What do you weigh right now? Like 200 know, I'm like 187. 190 somewhere in there. Okay. Well, not far off from 200 million. That's a lot of weight, man. I didn't know them. It was my feet are killing me.
I can only add, well, I had to, so I wanted to prove them all wrong. So really, you didn't train, you didn't do any distance running before that. No 0. I literally, I bought a pair of shoes because I didn't have any running shoes. So I bought a pair of running shoes and I ran twice. You know, one week and then I ran once one week Rapture, I got the shoes. I did they, I got the shoes and then I ran one more time the next week and in the next week was the marathon. So I ran twice.
I mean, I've run three times two. So, a year man, in the marathon was one of those three you're saying you really are a Savage. Yeah man. Well so many people were saying that I had to have carbs to run a marathon because it's endurance and I'm like no I feel like I could do it pretty good. And honestly I never had any any issues with energy whatsoever. Like I felt fuel the whole way
through My feet man. My feet were killing me though because they weren't conditioned for that kind of, you know, continuous just beating. And I mean, I literally could not walk for like three days straight and it was rough. Yeah, I can imagine, I mean, people often are blown away by some of the things that I do like. So last Monday, I wrote a eighty six and a half miles on my bike, but I didn't just wake up one day and do that. I've been writing 100 to 150 miles almost every week.
Prior to that. So that, that was just like, maybe 30, something miles longer than my normal ride, which is between 50 and 55 miles. So, yeah, while it was harder on contest prep and the close to that. I get to my full, you know, potential shredded and it's of 6% body fat or whatever it might be, right? Like it's more difficult for sure. But holy shit, man. I'm just blown away that you ran a marathon without training. The biking is hard to me.
I've never done much biking but I'm actually listen to it. Podcast right now and they're talking about the ram race. Have you ever heard of that? Know what is that one? It's basically like a week-long race from one end of the country. Basically entering the country diagonally. Yeah, really. Yeah, yeah yeah, sorry. I didn't know, I didn't know that acronym but yeah, I'm familiar with that one. They normally. So they have teams and they have an RV. Usually follow behind them and
then they switch off. But yeah, it's basically non-stop, right? They when one person Another person, right? No, it's like they don't even switch. It's just like, they just, it's like the one person goes by. They have a team that follows them in as a caretaker for my, they'll bring them, you know, food and make sure they got everything they need, but it's one person that's writing the whole time.
So they'll often do like 22 hours of continual, you know, pedaling and then sleep for two hours and then just get back on the bike and do it again. The next day for like, you know, seven days straight, that's insane, man. The, the line he's capable of is Just really mind-blowing. So that day, I did a six half miles. I was in the saddle for 6 or 7 hours, I think. And I mean that's just crazy though.
Just to know that you're constantly pedaling at a pretty solid Pace. I think I at the end of the day, I averaged about almost 16 miles an hour and that's that's just crazy that I'm like, going 60 miles an hour for a five and a half hours straight with just a couple stops for food and using the bathroom. And water and stuff. So, so let me ask you, man, with, with you doing that kind of endurance cycling and being a natural body builder.
I mean, how do you justify like, what is your thought process like between doing? Because I mean, there are two opposite ends of the spectrum and I don't know, like, I've come to think that there may not be that much of a disc and I like I'm not convinced, that cycling is so incredibly detrimental divided, but in that, it makes it a - if that makes sense. Yeah, I agree. I've talked to People that definitely think that it is but that's because in my opinion they don't lift weights so they
don't really know better. You know lifting weights creates a anabolic response in your body. The act of weightlifting is catabolic but if you do you feel up properly free maybe even during him and definitely post. Then your body's going to get signals to say hey man we need to build muscle to to adapt to to the stimulus that you've, you know, you've you're making us do a lot of hard.
Let me get better at it. I feel like cycling and such other, you know, low-impact and learn stuff is very similar, especially low impact. Because now, your body doesn't necessarily think man, I gotta shed all this weight because I'm bouncing around, it's like you're on a bike and you're just pedaling. So it's not like in fact there's there's some element of hit, like if you go up the hill and
the terrain is always changing. But you know, as far as like no I don't think people would think oh, this. Look at this guy, he's walking for four hours or he's a waiter or whatever. It's a very similar stimulus to that but maybe just hire paste. So I think for the most part, if you're eating protein during the ride and you have to eat during the ride, definitely helps and you eating before. And after I just don't think that you're going to break down
as much muscle as people think. It's just, it's so easy to eat enough to maintain his long as you are, diligent about it. Yeah, I totally agree, man. Especially What I've found, you know, with Quito because like, when I was before keto, like I would literally eat, you know, six or seven times a day every, you know, our to because that's what I thought I had to do in order to not you know, catabolize all my muscle but now I mean I eat once or twice a day and I still hit PR's in the gym.
I still you know all my measurements improve like everything improves, but I'm not eating as much. Like there's so many traditional, you know, pieces of wisdom that you hear that aren't really so much wisdom. So, Much as they are fallacy. And I don't like, like you said, human body is capable of so much more. I said when you, when you say you're not eating as much, you mean you're not eating as often, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So my calories are still high.
I'm just I'm spreading it out much more so my My fasting Windows much, much longer, right? Right. Yeah. And I agree that people can over complicate things for share and I think obviously the higher side meals just digest slower, so you're still getting those nutrients. Just over a longer period of time because digestion is slow down, is what I would say right. Yeah, definitely.
Absolutely, absolutely. So, tell us a little bit about your protocol because like I said in the beginning, you know, you're not keto, but I'd love to hear kind of like, your, your take on how you do contest prep. Like what do you do for yourself? What you do for your clients? Like, what is, what is that transition from? You know, the standard everyday walking around body fat to, you know, show stage ready? At, you know, six, five, four percent body fat. Look like, how's that look like
for you? Yeah. So it's interesting. I've never put myself into like a keto diet with high fat and next, and, you know, low or no carbs, but I'm sure I'm in Quito right now. I'm actually depleting for these three days. So, yesterday today, and tomorrow, and my macros right now are 55 fat, 50 carbs, but from veggies only. So, a lot of that is fiber and Very little to no sugar and then around 180 protein. So I be surprised and I'm doing
fasted cardio right now. I don't normally do fasted cardio but it's when my energy levels are best. It's like early in the morning so I would be surprised if I'm not in ketosis, just based on you know, the lack of calories in General. But in general, so like an offseason, I actually don't even track macros. I-i've got a pretty good relationship, Up with food, I have a wife and two kids and we just we just eat normally.
I just try to make sure that I'm choosing high protein options so that I'm getting, you know, roughly 150 to 200 grams of protein a day. And then the rest of the calories, I kind of let him just fall where they need to based on what my goals are intuitively. So like if I do still weigh myself, several times a week in the morning, you know, for consistency and just to kind of make sure that the way it is.
Moving in the general direction. I was actually and I want to tell people this, they they're usually pretty surprised, but I was able to gain 1 to 2 pounds a month. For a total of like 15 pounds over the course of about a year last, like in 2017 for like, literally from March to the end of the year. Basically, I went from like 150 to 150 for 2166 and I did that without tracking pretty much at
all the entire time. So I finished the mini cut out like 152 and after, you know, kind of depleted carbs go back up and I was like 154. And then just about 10 months later, only up about 12 pounds. So it's pretty much perfect and I just did that intuitively. So, like, if I felt like, I ate too much today before I need, just a little bit less than next day. And then I just focus on my
training and I strained. As hard as I could and higher frequency, I ran my Mac side training program for the whole time and I was hitting PRS just throughout the entire time. And then even throughout the beginning of my cut, I was still hitting PR's until about. So bodyweight got like below 150, and then I'm, you know, just hanging hanging on hanging on until, you know, strength starts to go the other direction. But but yeah, once once prep started, I started tracking macros.
But I didn't stop eating out, so I kept eating out and then just being flexible. And I would say That was tracking most days but then I was doing a lot of traveling for expose. So I did like at least an exponent January the Arnold in February or March or whatever. I did. There's like the Europa Expose and Dallas and Orlando and then I did body power in England.
So even though I was technically in prep the whole time and I need it to continue to make progress, I was okay with, like, half a pound to one pound at most a week because I'd given myself plenty of time. I technically started at the very, very end of November, but I knew, you know, I had Thanksgiving that in track. I had Christmas, I had New Year's had birthdays and anniversaries and all these
things. So I wanted to be able to still enjoy those with my family and then all the traveling stuff. I didn't want to try to like have to bring a scale and be a slave to tracking while traveling. So I just took it easy and I used moderation and I was able to go from like you know, whatever was one.
Sixty, six point eight. That's where I started at and down to about 140 to 145. So late was bouncing around and it was getting more difficult because I was getting hungry and I felt like I just need to be more accurate. And I did that over the course of like eight months or so and I dropped like what 25 pounds and then then that's when I handed the prep over to my business partner and good friend, Chris Barakat and said, I'm a need to get serious because it shows in
like a month. And so once I got back from the The Expo in Vegas. Let's we just, you know, kicked it up a notch and I stopped eating out completely. We deplete it for like a whole week. Just to get as much fat loss as possible for that show, which is basically a warm-up shot only did that show. Because in New York, for a couple reasons is because I want my Pro card there and 2015. So it was cool to come back and do it. Pro Show. New York is a cool place to visit.
I've only had been there that one time and I wanted to qualify for worlds which was the main event for me which would be About eight weeks later in November, from that time, when that New York show was and I still came in the best I've ever looked and took third and a solid line up. And I feel like I just feel like if I would have came in a little bit leaner, I could have won that show, I think.
But then that's a long time to be like the full East, read it, you know, until until November that seven seven or eight more weeks, that's kind of hard. So I was happy with how everything turned out and it motivated me so much that I was like, I'm gonna do, I want to do one more show in Between Worlds and the last one? So that's why I signed up for the Boston show, which is three days from now on Sunday and I'm
excited, man. This is like by far the best I've ever looked so much leaner than I was in New York. That still in my opinion, hopefully, maintaining all the same muscle mass and we're going to be a lot more aggressive with the peak this week because it's nothing to lose. And then it'll give us some really good data on how, how far we can push it for worlds, which is two weeks after this show. It's this exciting and you're going to, you're going to game
time right now. For sure have you noticed like what would you say the differences between, you know, this year's prep versus years prior where you come in and sharper this year? Like did you change a whole lot of your Reggie or is it more a matter of your body just being, you know, more acclimated to doing preps like the more you do your, the more your body responds, you get more muscle maturity. Now, it's kind of like you're
more seasoned athlete. Well, I think I did gain a lot of size and I brought up a lot of weak points in my offseason. I brought up like you mentioned my legs. My, my quads are better than they've ever been. I don't know if cycling had anything to do with that, but I just think it was the consistency. I was training like three times a week since I can't squat because of a tear in my left hip Have to find other exercises that I can tolerate. So, like, I do goblet squats and
Bulgarian split squats. And so with max type, it's a six out of eight days and three of those days are lower body. So one day is specifically focused on hamstrings and I think I brought my hamstrings up more than any other body part. Really. And then the other one would probably be my delts because they've just, they're just small. My shoulder joints are small. So I had to put a lot of focus on growing the muscle around them to get the same look that maybe somebody with a larger.
ER, you know shoulder cap would, you know, was able to achieve. So just say I bring it up, weak points was a big thing and actually making gains and giving myself a long offseason and then I think just taking the prep so slow. In the beginning, gave me the ability to continue to make a little bit of progress. Even as I was dieting down because I wasn't, you know, always in a big deficit. Probably not always in the deficit at all, you know, a lot of days traveling and stuff like that.
It's like almost having Not look like little diet, breaks here and there. Almost like initially I had planned to get some 150. So I'm like 138 right now which I'm not. That's going to shock anybody out everybody. I was a natural Butters. We get super light. Yeah I plan to get some 150 and then take a diet break but the way the timing worked out I didn't actually take a diet break and instead it was like you know I was taking these like lar not not so much.
We feed to put days where I'm not in the devil. Asset or whatever. So and then just the longer prep was similar to my 2015 prep. And I know I looked at the sharpest then because I didn't rush it and I took my time and I don't think I was sacrificing, a lot of muscle mass. The my calories are so low, though. Also, like that's the other thing is, I couldn't be afraid to get more aggressive. I work a desk job, doing online
coaching full-time. So in, and before that, I was in sales before I transition to doing the coaching and social media. Full time, I was in sales. The same thing, it was a desk job and it's just it is what it is with being so sedentary. Sometimes, you know, if being a smaller person as well, you have to be willing to go on calories that maybe other people aren't willing to do or think maybe
isn't normal or whatever. Like you know people like to brag about being on 300 carbs and losing weight and why I love that when my clients are able to do that maybe if they have a more active lifestyle or whatever, you know, Do their job is more physically active. I just simply don't have that luxury. So I have to do more cardio and dieting a little bit harder. So it is what it is, but you can't be afraid to do that. So that's one thing.
Also that working with Barakat is do is just not afraid to push me some 100 carbs a day. Sure, whatever. 75 cars a day. Let's go. It's okay, whatever. 1,500 calories a day. Let's do it. So 1500 is pretty much the depth of what you'll probably get down to on your caloric intake. Month of the pleading right now in 1415. But last week, I was on 1445.
I just had a little more carbs and little less fat but yeah, it is what it is. Yeah, it was probably preface this because like a lot of people will hear this and I know I need to be taken in 1450 calories, but I mean, like you said your 138 pounds and a half how tall are you about? 56 and that's that's something I've pointed out on my one of my
Instagram post is yesterday. Like you cannot compare the most extreme part of my diet With the diet that you're getting on just to look better for the beach in the summer. Like they're completely different things and you know if you're a 200-pound guy that is a firefighter, you know, you might be able to dine on 3000 calories because it is what it is. Like we have very different metabolisms, we have very different lean body mass and our goals are also very different.
Like I've already been dieting for almost a year, so just please don't think that you need to be on 1400 calories to make. Maybe you do but it's unlikely, you know, you probably should start out with a much more gradual approach. Yeah, it's kind of crazy man. Like when I transitioned into coaching, there's so much that I learned from my years, you know, prior to that just in bodybuilding that I learned about just like caloric manipulations and whatnot.
The whole concept of apron your Macros down is like for into so many people to us. It's just like second nature. Yeah, I agree. Like you, the more people you work with the more that you learn about. Out, you know how certain people respond like, for example, changing someone's macros by 15 carves, that's like 160
calories. Like, you know, the generally isn't going to make you, that's not going to be a huge difference, but you'll notice that somebody might have stalled out or maybe they had two weeks for Wade, didn't change very much and you make a very small adjustment and boom, they're losing a pound a week, and it's crazy because, you know It's not, it's not really because of those 60 calories, but it's that just kicks their body up and something changes.
And it's like, it's very interesting just to see how that me happen. So often. Yeah, it's mind-blowing moment. What do you normally go up to in your office? Like, what kind of caloric intake are you? I know you're not tracking but if you just had that had to guess. Yeah, if I had to guess, I think it's anywhere between 2,500 and
3,000 a day and it just varies. And to me, that's a decent amount of food, you know, for someone who only Get up to at the very heaviest, like 170, and that's pretty fat for me. I think I'd probably hang out around 160 at the most this offseason, but we don't know. We'll see, you know, depends on how I feel with all the additional cardio.
And if I decide to take 2019 with like bodybuilding, completely on the back burner, and then stay leaner, maybe I'll stay 150. So, I don't know, we'll see, you know, it's interesting to see how your body responds to. Caloric Surplus, man. Like, I'm at 6,000 calories right now and I'm just surprised that my body hasn't put on more fat than it has. Yeah, that's insane. 6,000 calories while. Yeah, I don't like it. I don't recommend it just way too much food.
I'm just doing it as an experiment. That's other people don't have to. How much are you getting perfect honestly? Man, I'm kind of like Plateau. Like my body's kind of been at the 185 warranty 7 Mark for quite some time now like it's it's it's taken what I'm putting in it and it's just pretty much Like equalize itself. It's really strange. That's what there's an upper threshold as much as there is a lower threshold what that's insane. So what's your training? Like?
I'm sure you must have tons of energy I do but I don't know. I feel like I've I've got I've got so much stuff going on right now with the business side that my trainings kind of suffered which is one of my main motivations for I'm building a
gym right now. So I'm going to have that so that I can remove that as an excuse but a man training is not been as optimal as I would like, but when eating that much Food Training heavy I notice, you know, pretty 6 pretty substantial strength gains week after week. I mean my body's taken that fuel and using it for sure. Yeah, I can imagine I have a friend in England who is on a very high calorie diet as well and he's made slike incredible gains. He's like 230 something pounds.
He competed at 170 and I just it blows my mind that natural as well and blows my mind that he looks as good as he does so much over stage way. I mean, he also trains really really hard, those really heavy as long as he avoids injury. It'd be really cool to see where he ends up in the future, like stage way. It was like, if it's actually possible that he's gonna retain that muscle mass, the name is Dan and what is his last name, I forget. But, uh, pretty incredible. Do Park and park?
You might know him. They brought y'all check him out for sure. I'll check him out. Yeah, it's pretty interesting man. Like I'm really wanting to You know about 2019, I hope to have the gym done and I could just block that entire year out to really focus on my training, you know, keep in calories high and just really optimize my offseason. So I want to compete again in 2020.
It's a substantial difference from what I look like when I stepped on stage in 2017. But I mean training, I so many people. They train harder in their contest prep than they do in their off season and they have it all backwards. I mean, you should just train hard, you know, whatever season you're in so to speak. But let me people. They tap the brakes, when they go into an off season because they don't have the physical appeal of looking as, as shredded as they do, you know,
in a contest prep. But that's the time to really, really hit the gas hard. Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's all about motivation which and discipline obviously, because you can't stay no one expects you to stay motivated, 24/7. But you have to you have to like, realize that it's bodybuilding and that if you're not building an offseason, then what are you?
Doing. So, whether that means you have to get on a new program to like really like spark that fire again or I mean I think that's one. Like so I don't think powerless thing isn't necessarily the best thing for bodybuilders to do in the offseason because it's not focused as much on hypertrophy, but I do think that powerlifters or power Builders or whatever you want to call it, right?
At least they have goals to get stronger and that their training intensity is going to stay higher versus someone. That is just doing hypertrophy training who attacks the offseason or doesn't attack the offseason at all. Just kind of like gets through the offseason takes it as almost like a break and then they want to prep again and then they get surprised when they realized they haven't made any progress
or very little progress. So, especially once you're past that, like first five years, if you're not, if you're not really putting in 100% effort in the offseason, then you're just, you're going to stop making progress. It is what it is. You gotta train hard. Hard. A total agreement. Totally agree. What are some? Some training principles that you've learned because training for a natural athlete is going to be considerably different than training for. You know, someone has taken
performance-enhancing drugs. When your recovery time is going to be a bit longer, I mean, your ability to lift heavier and build is going to be a bit different. So what are some principles that you apply for yourself in an offseason? Well for one I think you said
training frequencies key. Yeah my frequency goes higher like so when I saw Iran Max height, I was at six out of eight days and I was doing upper lower rest, and then four days of alternating, between two, upper body parts together and then like a quad Focus day or hamstring Focus day. And then, so for example, like chest and arms quads and adductors and then together would be back in delts.
And then the last day would be like hamstrings and calves then arrest and then repeat that but with a different reference and then the second set of four days. As would be like, chest and back quads and adductors again, and then Delta and arms and then hamstrings and calves again, and then rest and repeat again. So, and then there's a third rep range that alternates. So now, you have weekly undulating periodization with three different rep ranges, but
two different weeks. And so basically, it's six weeks before you repeat the exact same workout and, and that really kept it fresh. And the first two days being upper lower, we would cycle through five by five. I 4 by 8 and 3 sets of 10. And so you're getting the three sets of 10 is a lot easier but it's still a different reference three sets of ten to twelve. And then the five by five is really hard in the workouts to take a little longer for by 8 is
really fun. You get a nice solid pump but then because of the you know the way it Cycles you're getting and you're in a surplus you're getting enough time to actually continue to hit PRS and then every six weeks or so you could take a deload if you want on the seventh week it just Depends on your intensity and how you feel. But the other thing you can do is change out those first exercise of the of the upper and
lower. So like if you wanted to focus on incline bench for six weeks and you can maybe go flat bench for six weeks and to me that just keeps the Super Fresh and I stuck with flat bench for the longest time then I switched to Incline and I like I just like seeing progress and and I was definitely seeing progress so For me, training hard is
important. I like high volume as well like getting sick pumps but I also like monitoring strength gains to so in and not just in lower, like I don't actually ever really trained below 5 reps, but I'm not saying that you shouldn't just that for me. As far as like my little small joints in my propensity to get injured, I found that not going below. 5 is best for me. And how many, how many total exercises are you normally? Coming for a given muscle group.
Well, so on the upper day you're going to hit your main chest exercise which is four or five sets. Then you're going to do a like a back look for five sets like a horizontal row. Then you're going to do another press but like a vertical soleko HP or a seated shoulder standing shoulder press and that's another four sets and then you're going to do a vertical pull down. So another back exercise, but instead of horizontal row, it's a vertical. Lat pulldown or weighted,
pull-ups another four sets. And then, from there, you have like three or four different, super sets of all types of stuff like you straight on lap, press Downs, front raises lateral, raises face, pools, cable fly's. And then, you know, three sets each of corals and press Downs. So, there's a lot of volume and, and that's like a typical upper day. Day and then when you go into your other day, where it's more specialized than you've got to say, three exercises of each, so
maybe twelve sets each. So throughout the week you're getting maybe 20 sets, got your guess. Yeah, I've been I've been playing around with a lot of different training techniques, but I'm going to, I'm going to do whatever you're doing for chest, man. I'm in my chest is my weakest point for sure. And I think Jess is probably one of your strongest.
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I think a lot of it obviously is genetics, but like I think it's interesting that I've seen over the years is that if someone has really good arms, like let's say that, Arms are short and they and they just the mechanical leverages. If you have shorter arms usually have better triceps and then a week or chest, if you have long arms, usually have shittier triceps and a way stronger
chest. So I think a lot of it comes down to Mechanical leverage to. So like if your where your grip position is at if you're going super wide you might not have. So I think it really the best for bench press at least I found that the best position for chest. Activation is more of like a medium width grip so I'm not too narrow, not too wide and allowing you know, some flare in the elbows but it's cool man. Everybody's different. So it's really cool to see the differences and how certain
stimulus will affect you. I wish I'd get my upper chest to grab solutely. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna work on my chest. I'm gonna start doing like frequency for really, you know, weak point training, like my calves, for instance, man. Like my I used to never have any calves and I just said screw it. I'm going to train them. Single day. So as super said everything I do, I superset with calves and I do calves with every single exercise, every single day and they've really started to grow.
And that's the only reason why I think it's awesome, man. I like people don't realize that enough in my opinion. I think in the beginning, that's probably not the best thing to do, right? Because you need to give your muscles time to rest and recover.
But once you've realized that this is a super lagging body part in that, you've been training x amount of years, and you have a body part, that's not growing it He's not hurt to literally just start hitting it every day and seeing if you're going to make progress and I think like I agree with that forearm specifically like a lot of people that complain about having like, super small arms. I don't think that they would.
I don't think it would hurt to try hitting arms every day especially when it's a muscle group that recovered so quickly. Yeah, total agreement. Totally agree. Listen brother. We've been on for almost an hour. I want to be respectful of your time but before we go you don't have both natural body. Butters are both, love the sport.
Give give like a like your final thought, man, give give a reason for people that might be on the fence as to whether or not, they should jump into this and give it a shot like what's, what's your call to action speech to them? Yeah, I think that if you have ever thought about doing a show and you've been like on the on the fence about it, I really think you should just hire a coach pick out a show and see
what you're capable of doing. Because there's very few Sports out there that will push you and then like Really. Test your mental fortitude and your discipline like prepping for a natural bodybuilding show. Maybe it's not something that you fall in love with and maybe it's not something that you decide that you're going to continue to compete in for the next 10 years. But the experience alone, I think will change you usually for the better.
But for me, I compared it to Marine Corps boot camp. That was one of the hardest things I've ever done. And I went and I did a tour in Iraq and honestly boot camp was harder than that. And so I I really do compare the, the in stages of bodybuilding contest prep to Marine boot camp because it really just breaks you down and it tests, your spirit test, your discipline, your willpower, in ways that you just, there's almost nothing like it.
I mean, I think probably training for a marathon like if you're actually training for it and you're pushing for PR's and going beyond your limit is probably pretty similar, but the
diet is forever. Like like It doesn't, you can't really turn it off like when you're in prep, there's, you know, you eat, and maybe you're satisfied for half an hour or so. But when you're at the end and you're hungry 24/7, there's just something about that type of suffering, that, that prolonged suffering for a couple months at a time or longer that is very special and it almost like unlock some shit inside of, you know. I totally agree, man. Like it's weird but it's
awesome. Like I come out of a prep.
So much stronger. Every single time I do have prep like, it's, it's what I do now, when I need to realize who I am again and you just, you just locked down to, like, their primitive being and you figured out what you're made of, because it's a whole nother animal to be in such a depleted State and have food in abundance, all around you, but then have the mental fortitude to say no to. It just stay in line with your goals, be consistent discipline with your eating and your
training. I mean it It's, it's no joke. I mean, you find out what you're made of real quick. Yes, funny. I think like some of my clients don't realize how much easier they actually have it like the single guys that literally, all they have to do is just not buy the food, that would tempt them, but I've wife and two kids. So I can walk downstairs right now and I could down entire box of Cinnamon Toast Crunch, but that wouldn't give me that.
I want to win the lightweight World Championships and a little over two weeks. So that wouldn't put me in the position to do that. So, I obviously, Don't don't ever even considered. I'm not. Am I tempted? No, not even really. I mean honestly, like it's, it wouldn't be wouldn't it wouldn't help me, reach my goals. It'd be, like one of those short-term things like, man, that felt great.
But now what have I done? And so it's just cool man to see like how much willpower the human body has and how strong you can really be mentally and I don't know how to replicate that in other things, but I think like, you know, No, some of these really hard Endurance Sports, it's probably like a similar mindset, although it's like a more brief, you know, like a marathon being like four to six hours of suffering versus
like prolonged suffering. So it's really interesting and And I love it. And it don't get me wrong. I can't wait until November 17th comes and I can go into the offseason but it really does make you appreciate it all the food that you can have afterwards and, and, you know, and eating unrestricted or whatever. So it's, it's just, I guess it's like that thing, right? Where if, if there was no like suffering, then there you wouldn't really be able to appreciate how good you have and
all the happiness. It's pretty cool, 100% agreement. Not enough, people push themselves past the point of the thing that are capable of, but but bodybuilding is a great vehicle to do just that. And like I said, I don't know too many other sports. I mean, there's a lot of hard Sports out there but there's not anything, really like bodybuilding? Of course, I'm probably biased as a bodybuilder, but I mean, it's a whole another kind of animal.
Yeah. I think part of the Tour de France is probably way harder because they're doing like 23 days at those are like two rest days in the hole things like 21 stages. Has 22 stages and 2,500 miles or something like that. I can't think of something harder than that, as probably like one of the hardest things. But, and then maybe an ultra marathons, probably pretty hard. I mean, you ran a marathon. So I can only imagine what?
Like 100 miles would feel like, but but, but as far as like, knowing that you're going to sleep hungry, you're gonna wake up hungry and you're gonna stay on greens. I mean, man, and then you still have to train. And, and if you don't train hard, you lose more muscle mass. Testing then, you know, as acceptable and that's even worse. Yeah, and we love it. Yeah, we'll listen brother. I know, I know you gotta go, man. What, what's a, where can people
go to find out more about you. What's the best place to get in touch with with Chris Elkins? Oh yeah, I think the easiest way is just to pull up my Instagram. You can just type in my name. Chris alkanes, it's at Chris underscore Elkins and then from there, you have the links to all my stuff. My coaching website cutting-edge physics.com and My training program brand which is Max hype training.com awesome man. Well I really appreciate you jumping on here.
Brother is good. You know, catch up with you, haven't seen you in a long time so we're going to reunite. I'll definitely come back to that show in August. If all, if all goes well and I'm able to put it in my schedule man. I love to go out there and support you doing that. Yeah, that'd be awesome to have you there man and anyone else that's listening. Now we hope to see you there as well.
Whether either an audience or maybe on stage for your first show, we're going to have all the all the classes. So We'll have a novice class and then we're even going to have a debut class. So it'll be only for people doing their first show. Awesome. I love it, man. I love it will keep killing the game, brother. Thanks a lot, man. You to same to you.