Hello, ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto Savage, not commented, ever get special guest Cynthia Thurlow on the line, and we're going to dive into a host of different topics. We dive into protein consumption, what adequate protein looks like for a given individual. We talk about creatine, we dive deep into creatine actually talking about what we've learned in that regard, as it relates to muscle tissue preserving muscles as you age and improving
cognitive function. We dive into her parenting style around her two, teenage boys when it comes to what she's He's learned with nutrition and how it impacts their upbringing and we dive quite a bit into how exotic has hormone needs, may change the fluctuating shift, as you as you age, especially for middle-aged women going through menopause. So learned a ton, I've got a lot of respect for Cynthia. She has a wealth of knowledge. I've got no doubt. You will take something from this.
So that for their do is sit back, relax. Enjoy a conversation with Cynthia Thurlow And we are live. Cynthia, how are you? I'm doing. Well, how are you doing? I'm doing wonderful. We met. I think we probably met in person prior to the keto Symposium in New York, but we met officially in person there and it was great chatting with you here in your presentation. So I'm excited to get you on the podcast today. Thank you, likewise. Yes, I think we were both a key
token as well. But key token is such a large venue that. It's very easy to, not connect per se with everyone that, you know, no, I think that's one of the challenges. It really big events versus keto. Symposium was a lot more like intimate and smaller, so, it made it easier to connect. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You are, oftentimes brought onto various podcasts and panels and presentations to dive into the wonderful world of intermittent fasting. And I'd love to kind of touch on
some of that for sure. But I don't want to just I feel like you do so many podcasts given like a certain topic then you just get tired of talking about it. So I kind of want to start off with this gushin with what is That you personally are diving into now that you find a lot of interesting. Oh, that's such a great question and thank you for that, yes, especially after a book launch, you get a lot of very narrowly focused opportunities to talk
about one topic, I would say. Right now, for me, it's really learning about you. Nobody optimization brain, optimization utilizing different substances legal ones, that can really optimize metabolic health. And so, right now, I'm down a rabbit hole about creatine monohydrate, which is one of the most well-researched and most well-known supplements, kind of in the wellness industry. And really understanding how that can benefit men and women at different stages of their lives.
And based on the research, what quantity is most beneficial? And so a lot of what I'm doing right now is finding supplements that are very targeted for brain and muscle health and that's that's the first one that Nosedived over. And really I even have my teenagers, taking it, my husband, and most of my patients are taking it as well. There's so many benefits from it and you just using, like, a simple creatine monohydrate, right?
Yeah. Just one ingredient really high-quality things that can be dissolved directly into liquids, with no taste, no flavorings or into a protein smoothie, whatever, really? What would really appeals to the individual that's using it. But for me being a A middle-aged
woman. And there's a lot of focus on muscle protein synthesis and adequate protein intake, and lifting weights, and consistently every week in the gym, I'm lifting more, which is pretty, you know, that's pretty substantial for a middle-aged woman because we're losing testosterone and testosterone is one of the primary hormones that allows us to build muscle and to have a healthy body composition and so Just putting it out there that, you know, you don't have
to navigate the, your lifetime, you know, kind of falling into those fallacies about weight gain as a normal function of Aging, that, that is your destiny. I'm here to share with people that that doesn't have to be the case. Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan
of the group. Think I like disruptive thinkers like just fly in the face of what general Society likes to push on us. So not to gaining an estate body fat, as you age not losing muscle tissue as you age, those are Things that I'm totally on board with. Yeah, and I figured I figured as much. I think that, you know, it's certainly as an allopathic train
provider. Something I learned little to nothing about, you know, I trained in the Years where we were told, fat was bad, you know, exercise more, eat less, that somehow that was going to solve everyone's problems. And The more I've come to realize that a great deal of the problems. I see patients and clients struggling with are a byproduct of lifestyle. And so if I can hack it, Things or find things that can be beneficial to maintain. You know, metabolic health and
to maintain insulin sensitivity. I'm all for them. Absolutely, when it comes to creatine, I feel like the general population has they're pretty ignorant towards creatine. I mean like for me in the natural bodybuilding space, I've always been increasing as being something that basically replenishes ATP helps convert ADP back to ATP and just provides more energy to lat. Allow yourself, to get another rep or two with the given set.
A lot of people. The assumption that creatine is just going to Simply cause excess water retention and they don't really take me time to think about where that water is actually going being in the muscle tissue, not just floating floating around in the subcutaneous layer of skin. And there's also been a lot of research with creatine from a
neurological standpoint. So I'd love to learn more about what you've dove into as of late and kind of what you've taken from it. Yeah, and obviously you, you know, quite a bit about it. I think on a lot of levels is certainly my perception before I started learning. Learning about it and working with it. I thought about it as Bro, Science, you know, this is the
Hardcore bodybuilders. This is used in conjunction with anabolic steroids and I think a lot of why creatine perhaps there's so much misinformation is that it was lumped in with anabolic steroids. So exoticness synthetic steroids and that's obviously a separate separate kind of conversation. But from my perspective, the two areas that creatine monohydrate
is best. Studied and is in terms of muscle health and you've already alluded to supporting ATP synthesis and then really understanding your brain and cognition and this for me in particular is an area that the more I understand about brain health especially as men and women are aging. The more likely I am to start having conversations talking about ways that we can maintain good levels of cognition and brain support. And we know that creatine is We're currently involved in
bdnf. So brain, derived neurotrophic factor which we can think of as fertilizer for the brain.
We know that it's involved in supporting Gaba synthesis, so we've got neurotransmitter synthesis, there's research supporting, it's used in terms of memory and cognition and I can't think of any in particular, middle-aged women as they're losing estrogen, getting closer to menopause, which is 12 months out of menstrual cycle, more and more women, think it's normal to have brain fog to have trouble. Remembering Remembering words. Very, very common in particular,
loss of estrogen. And so helping people understand that we want to do as much as possible to help support neurons and axons in the brain, you know, in terms of communication and helping with mental Clarity because again, that doesn't have to be your destiny. And unfortunately, I have to believe that my well-meaning, allopathic, train peers, have somehow just made it have, just have kind of led to this degree.
A of normalcy for changes in short-term and long-term memory that it's normal to have insulin resistance. And we know that having high insulin levels in the brain can be highly toxic to the brain. And so when we think about Alzheimer's as an example or Parkinson's or you know, any of these neurocognitive disorders, understanding the lot of it is related to losing insulin sensitivity. And having some degree of loss of metabolic flexibility.
So kind of leaning into the research and I'm happy to share some resources with. You has really been, you know, the thing that was the Cornerstone that if but nothing else, we want to maintain healthy brain and cognitive Health throughout our lifetime. And understanding that one simple supplement and really looking at the research, you know, what are the desired dosages of creatine monohydrate,
and it's Pretty simple. It's not the very, you know, 20, 30 grams that people were using 20, 30 years ago that may have contributed to some of that water retention, but the word in and of itself, creatine monohydrate, the word hydrate is in there. But as you a plea stated, it's really speaking to muscle health and so it's really hydrating. The muscles should not be a source of concern in terms of bloating and really looking at the research.
It's three grams for most women, five grams for men, obviously with Have less and doggedness storage of creatine and their muscles. So we we have 70 to 80 percent less than men. So we really do genuinely need to supplement and then vegetarians and vegans actually need more because you can't get enough from your diet and the only sources, really the bulk of the sources that we can get from nutrition are from animal-based protein. So, I always say, Menon vegetarians and vegans need 5 G,
women need three. And it's a really simple way to support your body in a very Healthy way and you know I would also add that in this, you know supplement industry where more often than not my patients are quick to run to a supplement versus changing lifestyle just like anything, the Sleep, the stress, you know, what? You eat, how you move your body,
do you lift weights? Do you manage, you know, you're, you know, exposure to toxins all of those things are very important and then you layer in supplements. It should never be that. We just take supplements to deal with a lifestyle issue. Yeah. %. I feel like when it comes to creatine like it's the barrier to entry is so low. I mean, it's really, really cost-effective it's not expensive at all, it's had more research done to it than any other supplement like you
mentioned. And I mean there's just a lot to gain and very little to lose and I feel like from a from a supplementation standpoint a lot of people in the keto corner of or low carb space they assume that they're consuming enough via what they're getting from the red meat but in order to get the real benefits of creatine and reach, kind of like a super physiological saturation point with it. You pretty much Have to supplement it, even if you are taking in quite a bit of red meat.
Exactly. And it's interesting. The other thing that I, you know, anecdotally noticed because I've been taking it for over a year away before I started working with it in my business was that my sleep was better? My sleep was better. I had more energy throughout the day again, back to that ATP piece and I think for many, many individuals, we have gotten again in this kind of scarcity mindset or this age-related mindset that You know, I'm a certain age so I'm not supposed
to have as much energy. I'm not supposed to have high quality sleep, it's normal to gain weight with aging and I think it just really speaks to the fact that we need to reframe how we look at each decade of our lives. And in a way where we're proactive as opposed to being reactive, I think that as I navigate the health and wellness space. And obviously, when we're at events and whether it's keto Symposium, or key token, or any of these big low carb or keto events, the bulk of the
speakers. Cause I would say, if not all the speakers live what they preach. And I think it's really a testament to the fact that we recognize that changes in lifestyle, have profound, profound and significant benefits. And we just have to get out of the mindset as a society, that appeals going to fix the lifestyle problem, maybe in the short term, but in the long term, it's so much easier to shift your lifestyle and, you know, not apologize for it.
I think especially around the Is when we're entertaining and we're around family, I feel like, there's always this discussion that ends up being, you know, focused around food or nutrition. And maybe the way that you and I eat, or the way our families need is vastly different than many people that are out there, but we're all on our own trajectory and it's not to suggest that you can't make
changes. And, you know, we're designed as organisms to evolve shift and change throughout our lifetimes. I fervently believe that and for anyone that's listening Understanding that small changes have big impact. You don't have to change everything all at once, but understand, we do have control. We do have a control quite a bit
in our lives. Even coming out of the pandemic over the last, you know, nearly three years, understanding it, you know, now more than ever our lifestyle choices have really profound impact on our lives. Yeah, I'm a huge fan that you are such an advocate of weight training, especially for middle
age females. I feel like there's always a lot of pushback in that, A graphic for people, just not understanding the benefits to weight training and like we were talking about becoming more insulin sensitive, you know, preserving more lean, mass joint health longevity, mind cognitive
function. All that's going to be benefiting from consistent weight training, and I feel like a lot of people like one of the biggest pushbacks I get is, you know, a lot of my clientele are not in the bodybuilding space or just simply people want to lose somebody fed something.
Something wanted to be healthier and honestly just weight training, I just probably Very few things in which the single greatest thing you could do. It could be distilled down to one act and I think weight training, probably the most bang for the proverbial buck so to speak.
Absolutely. And I think the thing that I I try to be very transparent about is that even though I trained at a big Research Hospital, arguably one of the best in the United States, I never really appreciated how significant muscle mass was. I didn't fully appreciate and understand that the we have the the bowl Of our bone and muscle mass occurs in our 20s and 30s. And so by the time, this individuals hit the age of 40, there's something called
sarcopenia. It's not a question of if but when and it's this muscle loss of the Aging, you also get changes, you know, in your joints, it's not to suggest you can't navigate remaining, you know, Physically Active. But I think a lot of people fervently believe that they need to do a lot of chronic cardio. And they need to, you know, just focus in on yoga or Pilates and that's going to allow them to maintain muscle mass. And if you look at the research and dr. Gabrielle line is such an
amazing resource on this. I love that. You know, she she's made such an indelible impression on me. I tell her jokingly like every day. I quote something that she stated the muscle. Really is this organ of longevity and understanding that The best way to remain healthy throughout your lifetime, is to understand the interrelationship, with lifting weights, and it should be challenging. Maybe it starts with, you know, just bodyweight exercises and
then bands. And then you slowly work your way up to lifting weights, and lifting heavy weights, adequate protein intake. And I find most, if not all women, grossly under estimate, how much protein they need, and we actually need more protein as we get older, not less.
You know high quality sleep and then you know proper supplementation and I think on a lot of levels that the more people understand this interrelationship the more seriously they'll take the fact that protein and and weight training is so so important, you know, for metabolic health. And we look at the amount of metabolic Leon healthy individuals here in the United States and it's upwards of more than 90%. Which is just tragic. One of the ways that you can flip the switch, if you.
Well, one of the ways that you can change the trajectory of the direction in which your health is going, is to start lifting weights and eat more protein. It's really that simple. And if people do nothing else, eat more protein, and lift some weights, and I see significant and substantial changes. Not only in body composition, and that may not per se, be someone's initially intent, but Also in metabolic Health markers as well as people just having more energy.
I mean don't you want more energy to play with your kids? I have all boys, don't you want more energy to play with your grandkids? If you're at a different stage in life or just having overall energy to be able to get through your day? I always like to share the examples of just being an entrepreneur and I've now had to in the past six months. I've now to experiences where I've had to run, I'm not kidding. Sprint from my gate to get a connection.
Recently, last week when I was going through Chicago, O'Hare to en route to LA, and our plane was late because of ice, and I was the last person on the plane and I ran a mile and a quarter ran full out Sprint with luggage had. I not had the luggage. It wouldn't have been as painful. Yeah, somehow managed to transverse a very large Airport from their different two, different Terminals. And the reason why I share this is that one of the reasons why I was capable of doing that.
That was the fact that I I'm I'm very metabolically healthy but I also have a good amount of muscle in my body knows what to do when it's you know put under that degree of hormesis and let's be clear who meets this is beneficial stress and the right amount at the right time and I was in a totally fasted State sprinted through the airport got on my flight And just about collapsed in my seat. But the point is why I'm sharing that is just to kind of reiterate why it's so important
to why it is so important. Irrespective of what life stage were in is to maintain muscle mass maintain that insulin sensitivity, be able to move our bodies, the way they're really designed to thrive. I think we have as a society gotten, very comfortable with being very comfortable, and not being very Physically Active eating a lot of hyper palatable, highly processed foods, not getting good quality sleep.
I'm accepting that weight gain. Is a normal function of the aging process and I'm here to say. It doesn't have to be that way. Yeah, I feel like it. Well, it may sound a bit morbid but like if you were to rewind the clock back several hundred years if you were not able to, you know, Sprint if you were not able to function through the day-to-day that you would just die. Like that was your only option you would either survive or you
would die and we live in an era. Now that's that isn't much more plush much more forgiving and we have fast food We have everything that can be catered to us, we can have doordash deliver our food to our door and we can get away with being much less capable, but I don't think that's the right way to go about it. I feel like with this plush are we have to bring in these self-imposed hardship so to
speak? And that being the case of the weight training, the cardio, you know just simply having the discipline to eat the right foods that fuel your body. But doing those things yield such a such a better outcome and you have like we all know people that have just gone. Downhill like we like my I've got grandparents that have lost a ton of muscle and it's hard for them to get in the bed of
the chair every single day. You know what's going to say that even though even be here in a few more years? Like if you cannot become one of those statistics or at least push that back as long as you can by Simply Having the discipline to bring in these self-imposed hardships you've got so much more to gain from it and after you do it for long enough, you wind up loving that and it's not even a hardship anymore. It's just part of the day. It just as much as brushing your teeth is.
Absolutely. And I think it's really interesting and certainly very telling that, you know, from my perspective when I'm plotting out my week as an example, I always reflect back on, you know, the days. I don't want to go to the gym because right now it's cold where I am and I've got frost on my car and I could make the excuse that I do and I'll do it tomorrow. I reflect back on the thousands of patients.
I took care of and hot in hospitals and in clinic that were 50, 55 years old and couldn't get out of a, couldn't get off a bedside. Commode in the All couldn't get out of bed because they were so deconditioned. And so you know, if you're 50 or 55, that's really not setting you up well, for the rest of your life. If you are still, if you're struggling with weakness and just not being able to do what we refer to as activities of
daily living or adl's. That's not setting you up for good, prognostic indicators and so yes I agree with you 100% that it's very, very beneficial and certainly very helpful to remain active throughout your life. Time. Does that mean at 80? I'm going to be lifting weight like I do now. I don't know. I'm not sure what that will look like, but I definitely think every day when I go to the gym
today is a good example. I could have talked myself out of going but I went and lifted, heavy legs, especially in light of the fact, I knew we were going to be connecting because I live what I preach and I always feel better after I exercise without question. I know, I broke my fast before our conversation because I was definitely hungry. Really legitimately hungry, but just helping people That these small incremental changes really do have a positive net impact.
And I think for many people in your twenties and thirties, you're not thinking about what your life's going to be like at 50 or 60. I don't even think I thought about it. But certainly now that I'm engaged, I keep thinking like retirements not that far off. I mean, retirement could be 15 years away depending on you know, how the market goes with Investments. And I always tell my husband I'm like I want to be that super active couple like we are right now.
Hmm. I don't want to be the person. One that has joint issues or, you know, Camp swim or Camp bike, or can't walk, because I'm having issues that are kind of holding me back. And I think that that's just become the norm people. Think that's the way that things are supposed to be as we get older. And it doesn't have to be that way. Yeah, I totally green. You mentioned. Adequate protein, a few times, what would you define as adequate protein? Typically one gram per pound of
ideal body weight. So I, as an example, I'm 120 pounds, give or take a pound or two depending on what I'm eating and I aim for 100 grams a day, and that is a lot more than what I see. Most women consuming most of the time when I'm looking at Food Diaries, as an example, women are getting 40 or 50 grams a day. And if you're not hitting those protein thresholds again. Vary by individual can be gender specific as well.
You are at risk for losing muscle mass and certainly if you're north of 40, You've got some hormones that are starting to fluctuate. They can exacerbate that and we know based on Research that, you know, middle-aged people actually need more protein. Not less. I always look at my teenage boys.
They're both, you know, very athletic, very muscular, they are at a hormonal Advantage at this stage of life and I always say like the joke is that their parents are kind of reversed going through her first puberty, but I think it really speaks to the fact that for each one of us consuming more with a meal. So whether it's 30, 40, 50 grams of Routine. And I encourage people to track. If you don't understand what that looks like, you know, an 8 ounce steak, 50 + g of protein.
I think people have gotten very accustomed to eating too little protein, too many of the wrong types of fats. And by that, I mean, seed oils and too many of the wrong types of carbohydrates. I'm not anti car, but I do think that the bulk of the population, as an example is not metabolically healthy, then they have to closely examine their relationship with Abba hydrates and they may need to pull that lever back. Meaning, less carbs.
More protein to help with satiety muscle protein synthesis excetera. Yeah, I think, I think, looking at protein through the lens of, you know, one gram per pound of lean mass or ideal body. Weight is just a super safe way
to go about it, too. I feel like a lot of people, especially the dining culture, they like to view things as percentages and I'll often times advocate for a high percentage of my total caloric, allotment coming from dietary fan, but What often gets unsaid is that, I'm consuming 3,000-plus
calories. So even if I'm of gads, you know, relatively low percentage of that coming from protein, I'm still consuming 180, 200 grams of protein a day and I feel like that's super important to a lot of people are just simply under eating in general and if they're under eating and the not eating enough protein, then they're going to be at a much higher risk of becoming, you know catabolic. They're going to lose their lean mass are going to become that
sarcopenia. Individual you're talking about, I could just lots of down regulatory effects from not. Eating ample calories, or a protein know what? I agree with you and I see a lot of it. And pretty one, that's not familiar with me. A lot of what I talk about on social medias women. And so the same thing applies to men but women and men don't fully understand and appreciate how Catastrophic is probably the
word I would use. It can be if you chronically under eat all of your Macros. If you over exercise, if you over fast, you're not hitting those protein. Metrics does that mean every day I get it, right? Know when I travel sometimes, it can be challenging because I try to extend my fast while I'm traveling. And, you know, when you travel I always jokingly say I can always get a burger and a salad. That's usually my go-to if I'm in a situation where I need to eat but it's Ways, you know, I
don't get that. It I don't know if you're noticing this in your restaurants, but I know that protein animal based protein is becoming more expensive for restaurants to purchase. So I'm noticing the protein portions are getting smaller and I have no shame asking for like, a side of shrimp or can I have another chicken breast for? Can I have another piece of fish in order to kind of push those
metrics? Like last one I had to bison burgers with my meal because I was feeling like I just wasn't going to hit my protein threshold. So With the understanding of the fact that this is something you can actively work on. And, and I think for each one of us depending on I'm 5 foot 3, I'm not a very big person. My protein needs are going to be met at a different threshold than Roberts because Roberts very metabolically.
Healthy has a lot of lean muscle mass on him, but really understanding that, you know, slowly working your way up to hitting those protein metrics is very, very beneficial and that's why I think tracking for people at least for the short term I actually had my husband track recently because I kept saying, there's no way you're hitting your protein needs and actually, he was, but I just said, I think it's a helpful exercise to really understand how much are you actually consuming because
you may be under eating protein. And that's just going to exacerbate the tendency to become star cap Enoch. Yeah, tracking. I mean, I'm a huge advocate for tracking, especially when I'm in a competition prep and I'm getting everything down. Then when I'm in a building phase, I don't track hardly at all because I've got, you know, base knowledge around. And how much my portion sizes are going to be comprised of with regards to macros.
But the general population that is not in the weeds of tracking. Their macros are understanding nutritional components, like, gets, it's kind of mind-boggling how they just honestly, many of them. Don't understand the concept of what a protein is, they just check protein off the list. Like if they consume anything with protein, they just often times. Check it off the list and say, okay we're needs are met like they'll have a bowl of beans.
And consider that as a protein for the day and there may only be 15 g of protein in that bowl of beans. So I do think tracking and just not necessarily doing it every single day. Not becoming a slave to. It just simply having that knowledge at your fingertips and having that awareness is going to go a long way for people, regardless of their, their physical and ever just simply being healthy. That's going to be beneficial.
No. And I couldn't agree with you more and I think that the more research that I kind of dive into and understanding the physiology. E of aging and how hormones impact how easily you can build or not build muscle. I'll give you an example. There's a recent study that came out and was looking again looking at menopausal women but understanding that as their estrogen levels are plummeting, you know, and it's kind of like
women get shoved off a cliff. It's like they don't thought this gradual decline of estrogen, like it is with men and testosterone as they're getting older, if they're not working against it. And it was looking at the metric of estradiol which is the Dominant form of estrogen in women, prior to menopause against FSH.
So FSH is follicular stimulating hormone and the higher that goes along with lowered estrogen levels, is when women are really at this critical point where they actively have to consume more protein because what their body will do. If they don't and this makes sense, if you've ever been around a middle-aged woman, their body will look for consumption of food, if they can't get that metric of protein
in Their bodies. Like I'm going to get it from carbs and fat and so we know or at least I talk to my patients about carbs and fat very rarely come together in nature. They are largely a byproduct of the processed food industry so you're not going to go looking for more broccoli. Your body is going to be looking for hyper, palatable processed foods whether it's cookies or chips or things that are just tough to kind of navigate monitoring your intake of.
And so this, Is why I always say like that protein metric when you're sitting down and plating a meal, get enough protein in like whether it's, you combine proteins, whether it's steak and eggs, whether it's, you know bison, whether it's fish, whether it's chicken, Etc. Understanding that, the one lever that you can't, You can't run the risk of not, maintaining consistently is protein. So I know when my protein threshold set because I can't eat more food.
Like, you know, if I hit 60 grams of protein in a meal which for me is a lot. I can't eat more food. I'm not looking for dessert, I'm not looking for something after my meal. I am full, satiated and done, and I think that realization for a lot of people is life-changing because they've been under eating 18 for so long. They're wondering why after their meal, they're looking for more food. Why are they not satiated?
Why? They're eating a snack before bed maybe why they're having a glass of wine by the next day they wake up and they're grumpy because their blood sugar's low. There's so many things about our modern-day lifestyle that if we really lean into the understanding of what's happening when we're consuming adequate amounts of protein and when those satiety mechanisms and hormones are stabilized, it can be very, very impactful. Yes.
Specially if you're, if you're going about as for natural sources, I mean, like it's not super common to see protein and isolation either. So if you're having a good quality, natural, protein Source, you're going to get some dietary offense there as well. And then that's going to be significant more satiating than like a Hot Pocket or honey bun. And it's just going to be way healthier and it taste better.
I mean like when you get accustomed to eating good quality foods like you don't want those hyper hyper palpable process food because I just simply aren't a satisfying. Yeah, and I think that's important for people to understand that, in my perspective, it's always protein and fats, or protein and low glycemic carbs, like, it's either one or the other. So, the protein is going to keep you satiated, and then adding in what needs to be there.
But if you're having a salmon, a piece of salmon or having a ribeye, your healthy fats are already taken care of. You don't need to add half an avocado, which is sometimes where people get into trouble because yes, some of those those healthy fats are delicious. Whether it's avocado. No or macadamia nuts, or if you tolerate Dairy, you know, raw cheese. But understanding that some of those healthy fats are very easy to overeat.
And so it just kind of playing that into the you know, whether it's portioning out your healthy fats. Like I love salted macadamia nuts. It's probably one of my favorite things to add to a meal but I portion them out because it's so easy to eat, not a quarter cup. And next thing, you know, you've eaten three quarters of a cup and you completely blown your macro out life.
For the entire day. And so, because so many people come to me as I'm sure they do with you as well, and their weight loss resistant, or they want to change body composition. I would say, one of the easiest things to do is to just be very mindful about their fat intake. Not so that they don't eat fat but that there are conscientious about their serving sizes.
Yeah. Because I mean total I mean you can over consume any macro nutrient and if you don't have a clue what you're what you're consuming if you're not tracking I mean some of these foods. Like when you look at this, the actual listed serving size for Or Macadamia that's kind of using that example. Like it is it just pales in comparison with people are actually consuming when they go to grab a handful of macadamia nuts.
Like it ends up real quick. So you have to be to be honest with yourself and your consumption for sure. Yeah and it's so easy. I think that one of the jokes that I always play is the two things that get Women into trouble faster than anything else because it's hard to moderate is chi or cheese and nuts, mmm. And so if someone's weight loss resistant, one of the first things, I'll ask them to do is just to pull both of those out of their diet and more often than not.
They just don't realize they don't have a good sense. I mean, if a serving of cheese is the size of a thumbnail. People probably ten times that amount without even realizing it, because their body just doesn't doesn't register it. And then there's also this key, some morphine impact in the brain that just makes it more desirous to eat more and more, and more of dairy. I think darienne particular is challenging for. A lot of people to moderate.
Yeah, I totally agree. When it comes to hormonal fluctuations in middle-aged women specifically, there's like there's multiple trying to find a lot of people have Gone, the route of using the exogenous hormones, the bioidentical hormones, the pellets. Some people are of the opinion that you should just go totally without it. Just stay natural. Let your body do whatever it needs to do naturally and improve any lifestyle factors.
Such as the weight training, the proper nutrition etc etc. I'm assuming there's quite a spectrum here, there's not going to be a one-size-fits-all answer or solution but where do you stand on the whole concept of exogenous hormones throughout that phase of your life? Yeah, I mean it's a great question. If there was something called The Women's Health Initiative that came out around 2002.
So right, when I was a baby nurse practitioner and he completely changed the trajectory for prescribing. And for women, taking hormones, my mom at the time and her sisters. I have a lot of ants were all taken off of their hormone replacement therapy and that, that particular study had a huge net impact. Not only on prescribers, feeling comfortable, with hormonal replacement therapy, That also women's comfort with taking said
hormone replacement therapy. The unfortunate thing is that there was a lot of faulty research. They were using predominantly an unhealthy population by that, when many were more than 10 years into menopause former smoker sometimes, current smokers people who had hypertension. So high blood pressure, even diabetes and high cholesterol and used synthetic hormones, so hormones that are created in the lab, you know, like primer and
which is pregnant mares urine. I don't know if people know that which is kind of of a gross concept and using synthetic progesterone. So it wasn't progesterone has progestin and those two things alone. Yielded some pretty interesting research. So you have an unhealthy population, you're using synthetic hormones and taking that information and making some
pretty broad statement. So, to answer your question, it is been quite a journey to really unpack with the Women's Health Initiative did, if you follow people like After Peter attia, he was on a podcast earlier this year and he said, it is been the greatest catastrophe in modern-day medicine that women have been taught and clinicians, believe that hormones and replacing hormones can be non-beneficial. So, getting to your original question. I Am pro hormonal replacement therapy again.
It's really, very bio individual. But if you look at the research on the fact that women have testosterone estrogen and progesterone receptors throughout their body, not Just in their reproductive organs, but in their brains, their muscle, their bone. It makes you really understand that menopause in and of itself is a disease State. Meaning you can't just white-knuckle it through menopause and do it quote
unquote naturally. And think that there's not going to be a net impact on brain health, on bone health, eye muscle Health on metabolic health and there's absolutely no
shame if someone decides that. They don't want to take exogenously hormone replacement therapy that is obviously a choice, but it is absolutely critically important that that provider helps that patient, understand the net impact of not having some degree of hormone replacement therapy, there's a great book called, why oestrogen Matters by doctors avram, blooming and Carol. Tabris doctor blemings actually an oncologist and dr. Travers is a researcher And I
had them as guest on my podcast and we facilitated the most amazing conversation because I was led to believe, as we're many of my peers and colleagues. But hormones were going to going to cause cancer and it couldn't be heart farther from the truth. I think that it's absolutely important for women to fully understand and appreciate the changes that go on in perimenopause to the 10 to 15 years, leading to menopause,
really like reverse puberty. Understand the changes that go on in the brain, not only that but But just, in terms of Sleep Quality genital urinary symptoms, you know, the lack of libido. For many, many people understand that, many of those reasons. Why those things start happening changes in muscle. Mass changes in bone are all a byproduct of these fluctuations in hormones. So I think that I would say, I'm very comfortably, very research
and evidence-based. And I do believe that women benefit whether they start with oral progesterone. Women, just take oral progesterone and perimenopause the week preceding their menstrual cycle. Our ovaries are one of the first places that kind of show up in perimenopause. We're producing less progesterone or eggs or as old as we are. And we're going through early, ovarian failure and our adrenal glands will kind of step in to help pick up the slack with
progesterone. This is one of many reasons why women are less stress resilient in perimenopause and menopause the adrenals are there's an emergency backup system and then they're playing quarterback. The whole time understanding that perimenopause, perimenopausal women May benefit from exoticness. Use of progesterone therapy in a
targeted manner. I do feel like progesterone is kind of a stepping stone and then you lead to estrogen and then potentially testosterone, unfortunately, I think the the most well-researched ways to replace hormones are either progesterone looking at a cream. I don't think that's necessarily as good as taking oral progesterone. Round or looking at estrogen as a cream or a patch. And then looking at testosterone and I think a good starting
point is usually cream-based. I'm seeing a lot of pellet use and I just interviewed dr. Sean Tess. Oh no, my podcast is a GYN. And he speaks at Great length about why he doesn't love pellet therapies. I've had a lot of GYN colleagues. Tell me that pellets are like 1920s medicine. They're better options for women but it can be highly, highly lucrative. Active or the provider that is utilizing them. They can also be highly
unpredictable. Meaning that when this tiny like about the size of a grain of rice is placed underneath your skin. Some people do well a pellets, maybe their body just they get like a peak in a trough and then they have this kind of wind down in between distribution of pellets, are usually every three to four months, then some people get a massive dose of testosterone, and they get all the side effects of a massive dose of testosterone. And there's Nothing that can be done.
Absolutely nothing. So I think it's the unpredictability that certainly gives me pause in making recommendations or I'm pellets. We actually did a post on Instagram, maybe a week or two ago and boy we had some angry women who didn't like being told that it's not the best option for testosterone or estrogen Administration. There's better research done on other modalities. Do I see people that are out there using subcutaneous testosterone? Women.
Yes, one of the main reasons women are losing testosterone, has a lot to do with stress. You know, this sympathetic dominance in most, if not all of us and understanding that on the hormone hierarchy. Testosterone is not going to be as important as cortisol insulin, Etc. And so, if you're in this chronically stressed state, is it any wonder? You don't have a libido, hmm? Or don't can also be related to insulin resistance.
So really understanding that it's a very personal decision whether or not women are choosing to use. Remember replacement therapy, but if you're choosing not to make sure that your provider is fully counseling, you on what happens in your body in menopause. And, and I would just, lastly, add as I stated before, menopause is a de facto disease state. It is not supposed to be just the degree of inflammation.
Oxidative stress that goes on in the body, even if you're doing without hormones, that is still there. I do find that women that are taking the best care of themselves. The ones. As you are eating a nutrient-dense Whole Foods, diet that are leaning into lifestyle, getting enough, sleep managing their stress, can they navigate perimenopause and menopause? Pretty effortlessly. Absolutely.
But it still doesn't take away. The fact that, you know, with this loss of hormones means there's some significant shifts in the body so much so that I think it's important for women to work with providers that are knowledgeable about this. Yeah, that makes total sense. I feel like, you know as we learn more No, through scientific advancements to medical research, it makes sense to take advantage of all this the benefits that come from well-timed.
Well, placed and well administered exotic as hormones especially during that time frame. I feel like it's interesting. You, if you rewind the clock back, 500 years, there was no, this was not an option and you'd see women, you know, functioning at a high levels, well, into their later years. So, I wonder if, you know, if they're going through menopause and they don't have these exotic storm. Moans as an option where the the adverse effects of menopause significantly less intensive.
Then as they are now, due to environmental factors epigenetic effect over the past several Generations. I would assume so, but I don't know how it would be possible to quantify that well, and it's interesting. I did a, my first Ted Talk in 2018, and at that time, the average age of, in terms of longevity, that women lived a hundred years prior to that was for, Seven. Hmm. So a thousand years ago, 100 years ago, women didn't live to be eighty five years old.
I mean it was you were definitely an outlier. So I think that with the Advent of antibiotics and you know, clean water and you know accessibility to heat a lot of our modern-day Lifestyles and as well as modern advances in medicine overall have allowed us to live longer. And so I think it's important Point for people to understand that it's hard to compare to what we did 100 250 1000 years ago to now because people just didn't live as long and if you did, you were probably pretty unique.
And so, you know, even my grandmother, who was a nurse used to talk about this. She used to talk about as an example, that pneumonia used to be an old person's friend, but she said, now what happens is we keep people alive longer. We've got antibiotics, we have all this care, this supportive care, And breathe for people in the hospital. We can you know, we can give them dialysis when their kidneys are failing. And so more often than not, things that would kill people in many years ago.
You know, we just have so many treatments for. So it's hard to make that estimation but I do find for a lot of individuals. Their quality of life is so much more improved with hormones and it doesn't have to be every single hormone for some people could just be thyroid replacement. It could just be a little bit of
progesterone. There's no shame in taking hormones and I think we need to destigmatize that because even I have plenty of male colleagues that are doing all the right things and their testosterone levels are not where they're supposed to be. And so, you know, it's understand that we should destigmatize if people choose to take hormones because, you know, just understanding that some degree of optimization may require either supplementation and or medication to get there. Yeah, totally.
What is the Typical exaggerated hormone you know, Administration look like for women that are post-menopausal. Yeah, it's a great question. Typically oral progesterone, usually it's two hundred milligrams at night. Can be very helpful and so we know progesterone, upregulates Gaba and Gaba, is this incredibly kind of relaxing neurotransmitter and hormone typically an estrogen patch, or
estrogen cream? Again, there are some women who prefer doing Enter vaginal estrogen mean, And they don't, they're not ready, maybe mentally, they're not ready for a patch or cream to use systemically. So, they made use inter vaginal estrogen. And let me be very clear. It's not a question of if, but when, but they call it genitourinary signs of menopause but like these genital urinary symptoms, frequent urinary, tract infections, painful sex, atrophy of the genitourinary
system. It's not a question of if, but when so just people understanding that they don't have to suffer. If they're having symptoms there, they can use intravaginal estrogen. And then, you know, testosterone is usually something that we consider last when we've got progesterone and estrogen optimized, and, and that's very individual. You know, I find that testosterone is the most potent
hormone and women. What people don't understand is it's very potent and we don't need a lot of it, but that can sometimes be the hormone that I think has the greatest net impact not just on libido but in building and maintaining muscle mass. Mass and changing body composition. So I think when women start getting upset with changes, they see in their 40s and early 50s. A lot of is the byproduct of this gradual kind of loss of
testosterone. And so testosterone is important for women to I think there's this misnomer that only men make testosterone and it's really important for them. It's actually important for both of us both genders and that's typically how we look at it, but there's so many other things, sometimes it can be thyroid, it's very common to see. Both thyroidism and menopausal women, you know, looking at those metabolic Health markers to help guide recommendations is
someone insulin sensitive. What are their inflammatory markers? Like high sensitivity, CRP home. Assisting, what are they doing? But in terms of like a generalized recommendation, those are usually things that are a good starting point. And the other the unfortunate thing is not every provider, feels comfortable, prescribing testosterone, and it is a controlled substance, so there can be a bit of Navigation to find a provider that's willing
to write for testosterone. Yeah, I totally think it needs to be d6s destigmatize. I feel like there's just so much research out there. Coming out now that just points to the benefit of it. If it ministered promptly, I feel like a lot of people turn to it too quickly. Like like many supplements out there for instance and in my
sphere of natural bodybuilding. There's a lot of people that have pushed away from that to try and showcase what's capable naturally, which I think is admirable for sure. I feel like you and I can both agree. If people are getting their lifestyle factors, dialed in and nutrition, their sleep, their stress. Like, that's going to have Far and Away the main primary benefit in than anything. In addition to that, is just icing on the cake, so to speak. Absolutely.
And, and to be really clear, before I even think about hormones, I always say, it's a very light sleep Stress Management, anti-inflammatory, nutrition fasting. If that's a right and appropriate for that person gut health removing toxins All of those. And you know, weight training, obviously, all those are critically important and foundational before we ever even add hormones, unfortunately traditional allopathic medicine.
Usually does the opposite. You know, they sometimes will give people hormones that they appropriately need but they haven't managed to get their blood sugar stabilized, they're not sleeping and and for many women and I see this happen all
the time. They go on, they go on hormone replacement therapy and they gained a bunch of weight and it's because The kind of foundational elements have not yet been addressed and it's not to suggest that every person who goes on HRT is going to gain weight. And no middle-aged woman wants to gain more weight.
I think it's such a frightful time and women's lives where everything that used to work is no longer effective that they're like, I don't want to tip one more thing over that I have to then worry about. So that's why I always say, go low and slow get those foundational lifestyle pieces. Dialed in first and again, lady Very clear. Like I had someone in my podcast two days ago and she and I are very well known in the fasting space.
We're good friends, we agree to disagree about HRT and I say all the time it's a completely bio individual decision but just make sure irrespective of what your decision is that you understand the benefits and and the the cons of every decision that you're making. I think that's what I would really emphasize. Yeah, that's just good.
This is good advice regardless of the topic, everybody needs to To know details there, I've got one more question for when get through a whole podcast with you Cynthia and when I can't even talk about it in a minute fasting, believe or not. You are the mother of two teenage boys, correct? Yes. I am knowing all that, you know, all that you've learned in the health space. How does that affect your parenting style when it comes to their, their activity Endeavors, their nutrition.
Like how have you navigate those Waters? Yeah, it's interesting. It's a great question. So, obviously, I've known a lot about nutrition throughout their lifetime, so they were eating really healthy nutrient-dense foods throughout their lifetime. They're both, you know, honor students, they're both star athletes. So they're high performing individuals. What starts to happen with teenagers, is they love to disagree argue question. And so, I have to pick my
battles. And so for me a lot of what I'm navigating around now is finding cleaner options of things that they want to eat. I recognize that if I'm not buying like the clean potato chip, maybe it's cij. That's a good brand. They have clean clean options. If I'm not buying it, they're going to Uber eat it or they are one of them drives now they'll just go and buy it. So we're still. We're now having these negotiations about good better best.
The irony is anytime they hang out with their friends for more than one or two meals, they come home. They don't feel good. So at least they're putting those pieces together but it is a constant discussion about how to navigate food choices. My older son is very, I would say, carnivore ish. He's a lot of meat and he's he's six feet tall, he's very lean, he looks very healthy. My younger son is a little bit of a Gourmand and so he he's I always say, whoever marries this child.
His in Ferrara in, for an interesting ride, but I would say mostly in our house, there's a lot of protein, you know, when we sit down and have meals together, they are, they're having more carbohydrate than I do, which is completely fine, because they're very active, they're still very anabolic, they're still building muscle and growing, they're not done growing, which is amazing to me. But, you know, they see the way that I live my lifestyle, they think that everything I do is
weird, just because I'm their mom. Hmm. Neither of them fast. But they do, they do find it humorous that I'm very protein focused. In fact, they know, one of my common questions when I'm looking at their meal. Where's your protein? So, that's where is your protein? That's the most important thing that's going to, you know, that's very important. Given what you want to do building muscle.
So in our house it's a like it's a very different environment than it was five or ten years ago when I could control everything. Now it is a bit of picking my battles and understanding that they are both, you know, The strong independent young men and they have opinions about things. There are things that are no longer acceptable. They're like, no, I'm not eating that.
But I'll eat this. I'm like, okay, puts put a vegetable on your plate, at least eat a vegetable, but I would assume it's probably very similar experiences that your listeners have. If they have teenagers that you recognize, you have to pick. What is most important to have a battle over as opposed to picking about everything, it just isn't realistic. Although you think back to Are
the age that your son is at? And I'm like, oh my gosh like it was easier / harder back then they were more dependent on us day-to-day. Now they're more independent but they have better Arguments for things now so you really have to sometimes dig deep to determine. You know how do you want to handle certain challenges that crop up and you know, to your point about boober eats and you know, all these Delivery Systems I told my kids I said I will feel like I have failed as a
parent. If I see one of those delivery people pull up in front. Of this house because there's always a healthy option here. But understanding that, you know, eventually they'll be off in college and they'll be making their own choices. And you have to hope that you've done enough imprinting on them that they will navigate. You know, that kind of that good better best methodology.
Yeah. Yeah. This is all totally selfish on my part to ask these questions because like our kids 7 months old. So I mean, he's eating breast milk and whatever we make up for me to try and test. But like, when they get old, like when they do become teenagers like surely they Believe what you're saying. They value your expertise but I would imagine with you being their mother, they're just less. They probably just disagreeing with you despite you, I guess.
I don't know. I don't know, I need this thing. Yeah there's there's a lot of that. In fact, I had my younger son is my argue ER just by nature and I was mentioning that I was connecting with you and I said you know I'd be happy to connect you to Robert and you all can have a conversation about weight training and he looked at me and he was like Mom I don't need you to micromanage my and it was like this whole, like my husband just looked.
And I said, do you realize how fortunate you are that? Your mom is friends with these people and you can actually, you know, connect to some of these, you know, leaders in this space. And so then he kind of pipe down but yeah there's a lot of sass in my life these days and they absolutely give me a hard time about just about everything depending on their day and their mood and I'm assured. This is completely normal but I
have date. I have to learn to like bite my tongue and decide like what is worth. Arguing at them about and what am I going to ignore? Because sometimes they just want to provoke a reaction like, they'll say, you know, can I buy these Doritos and and they know I'm going to say no. Yeah, and they do it just to get a rise out of me. So I now I just ignore that and they know that I'm not going to buy it.
But yeah, there it's definitely different and I miss those infant toddler years when they're super snuggly. And, you know, it's very labor-intensive but you love it and then you get to watch them kind of evolve and grow throughout their Their early years and it's really exciting. So I think you and your wife. It's such a wonderful time and it's savor, every moment. And I mean, that sincerely, that
I loved every stage. I love this stage, although I have moments when I don't, because now they're bigger and taller and weigh more than me. And, you know, it's like trying to manage a man-child. Yeah. It's like herding cats? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I've got a ways to go before.
Ours is in his teens, I guess the biggest thing I've got now to worry, with is like, when he A little bit older than he starts going to spend the weekend with the grandparents, you know, like how to use moderate that food because that that one that's got to be a tricky one to. I'm sure you had to, I'm sure. Yeah, a fight there as well. Yes, I have an Italian mother and every time they visit with her by themselves, she indulges every women fancy.
I mean you know, tons of gelato and chips and my mom always says this is what grandparents are supposed to do. So I have to kind of turn my My brain off because I've gotten to the point where I've said a hundred times, please respect our food rules. Please read it, but she just, she wants to be fun, you know, our parents aren't fun. We were growing up, but then, they become grandparents and
they suddenly want to be fun. So a lot of navigating visits with family is understanding, I have to again pick my battles. It's like I can only do so much and I tell my kids all the time, you're eventually going to go off to college and I have to hope that I've imprinted enough that you're going to continue. You need to make good food choices and, you know, so much of it remains to be seen. I think more often than not.
It's just a normal developmental stage, her kids to question what they grew up in and questioned what they know and you know do it in a safe place like when they're with their parents, they can be their worst because I know you're still going to love them even if they're being a jerk and I say that with love because I love my kids but we have moments where I'm like I don't like your behavior today. And I just leave it at that. I'm like I really don't like your behavior today.
Yeah, It's Tricky. But I'm sure I mean like like kids are Smarter Than People realize that I feel like they'll see like they'll be able to like look at their their friends parents and not that, you know, they will compare them to you. I that's just the way they weren't and they compare things and also they'll be able to look at you and your, your lifestyle and your level of health. And they'll be able to recognize and put two and two together. The hey, look my mom's doing.
Right, like she's not morbidly obese. She's not in the hospital time. She's not taking a bunch of prescription drugs. Like she's doing something right. Whatever that is I mean like that. So I feel like I feel like that imprinting will definitely take hold absolutely. And what's funny is when my youngest was probably, it's probably 10 years ago, he kept saying in his mind if you were a certain age you were obese and I remember him telling me.
Well Mom you can only be ax age because you're thin. Yeah. And a five-year-old brain. I can understand that was there there. Reasoning that having to explain to him. Yeah, people always think we're younger than we are because we do take care of ourselves and helping him kind of navigate the net impact of lifestyle, choices on how we look, and feel as
individuals. And then understanding, like he said, to me, recently, we were Costa Rica last year and I did all the crazy things, my kids and my husband did, you know, we were rappelling through waterfalls, we were white water rafting. We were ziplining. We were doing These very active. I was like I won the mom of the Year award because I was wet for like solid.
Like Silk Stocking, soaping wet for three days on this vacation and he said I eat is like Mom. I'm so grateful because most of my friend's moms would never do this, and so James, it's awesome. Yeah, just with the understanding like I'm healthy enough. I'm strong enough that I can do activities. A lot of other people can't do. I mean, I watched people who I knew were younger than us getting stuck, you know? And people having to like go in and pull them down or pull them
out of the water. I mean, it was just so many different things that I say all the time I'm just grateful that were as healthy as we are. So we continue to set expectations of what my kids Lifestyles will be like, you know, going as they get older, it's like you have that choice. Do you want to put in the effort up front or do you want to be one of those people that struggling at 50 or 55? Because they've been living, like, they were 18 years old for 20-30 years. Not understanding that.
There are what you are and 18. In terms of metabolic health is generally not what you are at 50. If you're not actively working to support that. Yeah. And like all of this, you know, nutritional wisdom that we've learned over the years, all the cool bio hacking techniques. I mean those are all very, very sexy and popular fun to talk about but the other day, it all goes to figuring out how you can live your best life but you only get one right on this horse as the saying goes.
And I feel like if you're doing that now and likely on the trajectory to keep doing, That for many more years to come like you can feel good about that. You get more time with your loved ones, you got more time with your kids. You got more time and opportunity for building deeper relationships and just simply living life to a higher degree of, you know, fullness and fulfillment. I feel like whatever you have to do to make that the reality that is time and effort. Well, spend absolutely.
And I wish more people realize that that that investment comes back a hundredfold 1000%. What? Cynthia, it is a pleasure chatting with you. I want to be respectful. Your time. Where do people go to find out? More about you dive deeper and learn more. Absolutely, thank you again for the interview today, has been wonderful. And actually, thank you for letting me talk about topics other than intermittent fasting. Sure, after a book launch, I
really appreciate that. But my website is probably the best way to connect with Me www.cynthiagleich.llyndamoreboots.com podcast. I've the everyday Wellness podcast. I also co-host the the intermittent fasting podcast and Melanie Avalon I'm very active probably most active on Instagram and its Cynthia
underscore Thurlow underscore. I am on Twitter be forewarned I'm a bit snarky and I'm also on Facebook reluctantly on Tick-Tock although that has not been area that I've really expanded and I'm also on YouTube organically growing there as well, but that's probably the easiest way to connect with me. And obviously, my book, The intermittent fasting transformation is all about fasting and women that you can find, anywhere, Amazon, Barnes and Noble Target.
Or your local bookstore. Awesome level Link at the all those, make it easy for people to find you. You are a wealth of knowledge. And again, I really appreciate the time and I'm sure I'll see you at one of these future conferences here for too long. Absolutely. Happy holidays. And you take care of Cynthia.