Business and Training with Austin Paulsen

What's going on? Ladies and gents, Robert Sykes? Keto Savage.com today. I've got special repeat guests, Austin Paulson on the line Austin, and I met during my 2017 competition. He had a client, that was competing there as well. And we were started talking backstage. He does not do keto, he does more of a carbohydrate mixed diet nutrition protocol, but I've got nothing but respect to this guy because he freaking kills it. When he competes.

He just did a show not too long ago and had amazing conditioning and I wanted to bring him on the show to talk about what his strategy. G was like, where's nutritional protocol was like what his training was like, we talk a

little business. He had a tumor not so long ago that was affecting his hormone production endocrine system and he is now doing trt and everything with his competitive Endeavors. So I wanted to kind of pick his brain and kind of compare and contrast what that's like versus competing as a natural. So awesome. Awesome conversation, like said nothing but respect for Austin, he's killing it in the game just to honestly.

Good genuine, dude, so got no doubt that you will take something from this conversation. Especially if bodybuilding is at all of an interest to you. So without further Ado, sit back, relax, enjoy the podcast with my good friend, Austin. And we are live. Austin. How are you man? Good brother. How are you doing? I'm good. I'm good. Last time we spoke has been about two years ago. I think. And try remember you had just had like a surgery or something done.

If I remember correctly, right? Our, you're about to have surgery. I don't know. I can't remember because a couple years ago. It might even be longer than that, dude, because I remember, we started out we met back in Spokane, right? Anyway, and when I competed in at that gbo showing 2017, I think was because you didn't compete them at you had a client that was competing, right? Yeah, Tom and yeah, he was you did by building. He did the classic hidden.

You obviously, destroyed everybody in bodybuilding and he was doing classic and and doing a runway show. Up there, but yeah, then after that except like I had you on my podcast. I think. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, and then I can try to remember with surgery because I did get ACL surgery, way back when. But I think what you're talking about might be when I was diagnosed with with a brain tumor, the fun stuff.

That's what it was, what it was, whatever came of that, because I think you had just gotten diagnosed last. We spoke. Yeah, so the fun stuff is for a while there. My endocrine system was just messed up, right? My total test my total testosterone dropped at one point in time. It was like a 97 nanograms per deciliter total test. And yeah, it's a classified as prolactin Oma. So it's a pituitary tumor that elevates my prolactin production, female stuff. And just antagonize.

Is that testosterone production? So so 1 through a lot of struggle there for a bit finally, had a great friend of mine. She competed and she was a nurse practitioner. She does figure and this had to been at least what three four years ago or so, I think and she said I need to get an MRI and I was like, what MRI? You know, I'm like don't tell me. My mom, she gonna freak out right but she said yeah, I went and saw it in a chronologist. Always people.

They said no, you know, you're fine, but she said I need to get an MRI. And so I did in there. It was whole tumor on my pituitary gland and cool.

Part is had a couple different routes of, you know, trying to do that brain surgery or just take some some medication and I took the medication route and so we just gotta Implement a dopamine Agonist. Just to kind of counteract that prolactin production and then I have been just utilizing some trt since then just to keep my stuff in range, but some all healthy all good to go and feel normal, but it's kind of that story. That's crazy, man.

I mean, that's kind of be like, it's a good thing. You don't have to have surgery. I mean you can just do it all you know with the exhaustion of supplementation as opposed to going under the knife. Yeah. It was just kind of a thing where you know, I look a success rate Dad could have done it, but And just the thought of that,

you know, I don't know. I'd rather just try to to go that route and be healthy, obviously an exercise and eat properly and just use that form of MBA medication just to try and syllabus a a, a good life, a good quality of life, but I have to obviously get brain surgery. And actually, the cool part is, is from taking what I'm using is called bromocriptine. I know you're using the fitness stuff and a lot of people follow you. Probably, you know, I know you.

Are you still natural athlete Robert? Honestly have hardly any knowledge of anything. That's not natural. So in like yeah. Oh no. Yeah. So essentially I'm taking what's called bromocriptine. And like I said, the dopamine Agonist different one that a lot of body, builders might know of as caber or giggling. It's just a difference. Essentially, in the half-life of this others to kind of control your parole acted. But anyways, I've been table 15 for Less.

I don't know. A couple years at least and I got another MRI the following year and actually the tumor shrank which is they said it was it would be hit and miss. If it just stayed the same size or it might shrink. And so my in show that it shrank, you know, it goes by the mm in size but still it was a good good little progress. So I might get another one here this year at the end of the year and see where we win. But but no, everything's been going good though. So, She can't complain.

Well, that's awesome news, man. I mean, I remember when we talked and you, you gave this information to me is like you didn't know what you were going to do. And then I saw, you know, you did a show. What about 20 some odd weeks ago now? Something like that. Yeah. Well I started yeah, so I just finished up in 2021. I did a run of three and I did yeah. Pre-shows to down here in a Z1 in. L1 and Tucson actually went and did NPC Nationals for the first

time ever. And that was a great experience, very humbling, but very great. And we ended up cracking top 10. So that was for my first time and that was a big accomplishment. I know a lot of guys were chasing that Pro card and all that but honestly man, when you go to an event like that on an NPC level, you know, untested and I'm only 25 and you know, there's guys up there 30 35, 40 years old to have you The training rate and years of exhaustion and its use of hormones and all that stuff.

And there are some monsters if it gives you a reality check, but it's really cool to see. And so yeah, we got we got ready for that. And definitely was very happy with how that progression went. Definitely had her own personal best, you know, so that's what really matters in my eyes. Well, I mean, just seeing the pictures that you've been posting Instagram and let me you look freaking ridiculous, dude. Like you like The people that listen and what are your stance?

I mean you're you're not that heavy and you're not that tongue, but you look I mean the level of conditioning you brought the table was out of this world. Yeah, I appreciate that. That's that's where my only Fighting Chance is going to be, was a, the conditioning,

exactly. It's because I don't have that size and most of maturity and I don't like to just for health purposes to push it the, you know, drug usage, you know, like like other guys, like I said, I'm just trying to keep it low-key, just trying to be healthy and I've been pushing obviously out of the natural route because of my pituitary tumor. So, my only Fighting Chance and why I think I've done well like back in 2019. I did Empire up in Spokane. I won that overall.

And I think the guy that got S. I mean, he had at least 20 pounds on me, but just because of conditioning. So I just knew that if I'm going to keep doing this, but I'm gonna have to bring the stress. And so I really want to give a lot of credit honestly not to myself but to my coach and Mentor a guy named cliff Wilson. Mm-hmm. A lot of people think, I don't know.

Maybe you get this too. But as a coach, they assume that, you know, everything and mean, you know, you're a professional in the realm, but I'm always a student even though I am a coach and so Cliff acts looked over my stuff and he's kind of known for obviously is bringing in condition to athletes, especially in the natural realm. And he's actually mentored me for the last probably three or four years coaching clients together.

Really great guy. And so he looked over my stuff and he's like, yeah, he's got to bring that conditioning and then from there, you know, obviously we know our weak points and when you lose sighs, you know how it is when you get into going to comp mode and you kind of gotta you gotta weigh out the risk reward of more conditioning and losing some strong muscle. The look of the muscle, I guess. Like in my quads, I'll loosen size and fullness just because I try to bring in the glutes a

little more. It's just that it's just a game right there is no right or wrong answer. It's like, you know, we are working with what you got, right? So let's been in this space for a long time. And I mean, he's super respected. He's been around for a while. He's known for that. Crazy carbohydrate loading like north of 1,000 grams on occasion, with some athletes during like the night before the show, right? Yeah. This is rapid.

Backloading protocol. Yeah. He actually wrote a book, you know, I don't know if You, you might have heard of it or he wrote with Docker. Pete is kinda sure. Yeah, it's kind of test prep book and he goes through his different peeking methods of relative to, you know, obviously always starts out with if you are actually our condition enough to do a proper Peak, we

great. But then depending on what class if you're male or female, you know, if you're going to be need versus a bodybuilder, you know, probably would do a different peaking protocol of the And look. But yeah, I think what you're talking about. This is rapid backload with some huge amount of carbohydrate on the backend, huge hard deplete and then you know, water and

sodium going into the show. Pretty pretty a lot different than most people would think or do I guess from a traditional or old-school method, but the really cool thing is is if you want to dive into that, we can. But the really cool thing is, we actually learned a lot from doing three shows and we actually picked differently. All three shows, kind of some of them were relatively the same, but actually we change the electrolyte manipulation with potassium actually.

And, and he's noticed an enhanced athletes versus a natural athlete. The effects of loading, a little more potassium actually had a lot of, but bigger effect on me, obviously being in the hands route. So I just learned a lot of cool data points. Yeah. Definitely. I'm curious to Diamond it is because I mean, I'm I've got a very In Peking strategy without carbohydrates than the sum of its use in carbohydrates. Like, for you in, going through

these past, three shows. Like, what did you wind up settling on? Is being the best strategy for you? That's right. Yeah, and I would like to know a little more how you peek to with more the keto Yahweh. Obviously. Because I've always been interested in because ever since that show tell you the truth up until now like being with cliff and seen some of his athletes but prior to even knowing him or just kind of get introduced with my own clients.

When I first met you, you were hands down the most shredded person I have ever seen on stage and the crazy part was, you told me you were doing keto and I said, how do you look? A hard and full write it without muscle glycogen, you know, like carbohydrates loading into the muscle and pulling type of change, water out and all that kind of stuff. Well, I'd and subject matter. I'll send you a copy.

Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. No, I'd love to check that out because it's definitely very interesting of how you guys how you do it, you know, obviously very differently than the carbohydrate route. Traditional kind of diving, but but, but yeah, it's answer your question to find. The best look. That's what you asked me. Well, we trialed different Peaks, but different Peaks relative to my conditioning at the time.

So my first show I was the heaviest and I looked a lot bigger on stage and I still had gluten lines, but it wasn't as condition is like Nationals. And it was because the local show, the original show down here. The cutoff for Any was for light or middleware, I couldn't do light weights to the cutoff at 165 was actually 154. So you came so that's what the kind of know the cut out that

the cut off of that. So I had it, I wasn't going to do that and sacrifice all that knowing that I have two more shows ahead of me. So the cap was 176. So we came in a little heavier. I think showed a, I was around 170 year somewhere in there. Are you again? Remind me like five. Six. Five, six five six. Yeah, five six.

Yeah. So so we did that and we saw some glue lines, but we just ran, you know, essentially a four-day deplete and then we just kind of how might we it goes bye-bye types and honestly a big one is ethnicity. A lot of people might not take that new account with Peak methods like an African American versus a Caucasian or Jenner something like this or something of sorts, but what how a my body kind of responds best is to taper all taper carbohydrates.

Up will say, 3 to 5-day load, as well as you can manipulate sodium by. Not, you know, a lot of people traditionally will just kind of drop sodium, will say, three days out and it's completely get rid of it to try and, you know,

drop Water, right? But there's just so many mechanisms of needing water, sodium or just electrolytes in general, and carbohydrates to kind of accumulate muscle glycogen in the muscle rather than just holding carbs in the bloodstream and not really loading them properly. Right? So I would get like, I would say that we the first show I did probably the second show is the hardest deplete because I want to get down about 165. But the first show, I did a moderate to play.

For day, then I just a moderate load because we knew that I wasn't going to be your end. Look, we want to see how I responded to. Like. I said, that potassium and stuff with usage. We just use like sweet potato stuff like that. To kind of gauge that and the second show we did a little harder to pleat just to get down because the second show did have

a 165 cut off. So we got down to Bare and I brought definitely the most condition, but in order to do that, you really have to play the game of How hard and the timeline you are depleting? Because you just need time to obviously fully fill up. And I think that, that it probably is what Clips known for is a lot of guys, if they deplete hard, they never really get back to fully saturated. But I think people can handle a lot more food than they think if

they are conditioned enough. But anyway, so we did that second show. And in the funny part is, is because of the will say it. Your to break between shows and you bring calories back up a little bit. And that upregulation. They're going into Nationals sitting at that 165. I actually didn't have a deplete. I just maintain exactly where I was and disc actually got a little increase in food until we started loading into the show. So it's a plus.

Yeah, you have any idea what your amount like, we were. You calculating and tracking your sodium and potassium and inflation. Like, you know, what your mg and take was of each of those. If I pulled up sheets, I could I could probably give you a better answer, you know. Off top my head. I don't have an exact number for to go by like relative. What's that? Pretty good bit of sodium though? What is it? Can you elaborate on what a good bit would be? Yes, like four million in my

clients. I'll typically have them like they're based on will be like, you know, four to six thousand milligrams of sodium a day and then the day before the show will bump that up, you know, by 1500 to 2000 mg. So they're like eight thousand milligrams the day before, and that's probably more than most people consume, but you typically need a little bit more electrolytes. If you're doing a ketogenic diet, especially in the beginning, and I'm going to try to elicit a certain response

like you are. Quake. But most people probably aren't consuming 8 grams of salt a day. Yeah. So I totally the would agree with you like how you're going about that and and blank natural athletes and then enhanced I've seen immediately you can be done a little differently but to give you reference mine wasn't quite as high. Probably I think it was more about the relative changes and I think Think, I think because of

that, I probably started somewhere around. 3,500 to 4,000 during deplete and then maintain head between a 25 and 3,000 probably during I've been kind of just manipulating last couple days to see, honestly, where the scale weight was.

So we could we could honestly most people think that you gotta like deplete and then start loading going into last couple days of the show, but actually We were able to keep the scale weight the same or not, keep dropping by just lowering a little bit of sodium, but actually keeping carbohydrates tapering up throughout the week. So you're actually loading glycogen, as you're still kind of starting to pull some subcutaneous water and just keeping your your scale weight

relatively the same. So I didn't have to, you know, do any sort of rule cardio or you know, like last minute, you know, scale manipulation is to weigh in properly at this if the So I would say that there was probably a little taper down if anything, but those are kind of like my ranges. I would say from a 2, to a 4000 kg range sodium. Rather than that. You said four to eight, I think Craig. Yeah, it's interesting.

I think like the, the one, the one common, you know, denominator across all Peak weeks, regardless of the type of diet you follow, is that you got to be in condition going into peak week. And I feel like so many people totally butcher that, And then they just get worse and worse. As I tried pulling levers haphazardly. Yeah, 100% in the really cool thing to, I don't know if you've noticed this, I want to get your thoughts.

But when you're peaking athletes, the more conditions you can get them or relative to the category or whatever. They're competing in. But the more condition they can be the harder, you can push a load, but also the bigger the, what I call it insurance policy on the athlete we have right? You seem to be able to fix things a lot easier and you can say, look, you even do a more of a conservative load.

Much like what's a, a Saturday show and you do like a Monday through Saturday or do a Tuesday, through Saturday and you want to do a little conservative of adding carbs and day over day steadily throughout the week and your case. I don't know exactly how you would structure that. But you know, like from a tradition like a carbohydrate standpoint. You can do a clean up day on Friday the day before where you can really push things.

And if you see you spill over a little bit, you can clean it up and pull back at feel like it's really hard to do something of Sorts when you're not conditioned enough. And that's, that's the cool part is, I feel like there's a bigger inch insurance policy, where you can fixing the lot easier. If you do, get to the level of conditioning.

Yeah. 100%. And if you look amazing going into Peak Week, like if you've got straining glutes, you know, on Monday shows on Saturday, even if you don't nail your your Peak, you're still gonna look super freaking impressive and that's more than some competitors can say, you know, so like if you have there if you're on stage and you guys training It's here already in a standout again, amongst the competitors. 100%. Yes, exactly.

What you're saying is you can guy, you know, guy it condition properly can beat and he could peek at maybe 70 to 80%, right? Of its full Peak and still beat out the guy who hundred percent take perfectly. That's not as condition. Bingo, right, so that I would I would agree with that. Definitely. Do you know, do you remember off the top of your head? What you're like, calories? Got down to it. The depth of your deficit there. Yeah, that's the crazy thing that's going on right now is the

Rica I like the document stuff. You know me. I'm like a data nerd. So post shows been pretty crazy how much up regulation that's just been happening with. My endocrine system is my metabolism General, but but lowest during Peak actually look at that the other day and I think I got somewhere around. 1,800 calories. Maybe it was between was around 17, 1800 I think and my I did zero cardio the whole time up until probably Last four weeks.

I put in some walking and I think the hardest that second show, like, I was saying, the hardest deplete for that four-day deplete was just my normal resistance training and then it was just 60 minutes of walking day that I was at the heart farthest. Push. I guess you could say, but sounds like nothing, right, compared to a lot of what a lot of people do. But I think that It's just relative to the PACE, the rate of loss and what you need to do in order to get to the

conditioning, right? Yeah, totally. I think you know, a lot of people make the mistake of just way going overboard with the cardio and I always like try and think of cardio is minimum viable dose like the least you can do to get the, you know, a tick in the right direction. That's what you want to do. I mean, if you can go through prep with, you know, miniscule amounts of cardio than your better for it. Yeah, 100%.

I agree. And that's something I can, you know, kind of brought light shed. Light was Cliff, you cut actually taught me that is you can if you take cardio. It's definitely a tool, right? And it's a tool to push that car gets better to lose body fat, right? Push that scale way down if

needed. But when you can elongate your dieting, phaser, maybe give yourself more time, which is usually the number one thing that I see competitors fail at doing is giving themselves, actually just enough time. It's not the peak wig. It's not the right Foods or whatever eating is not the sole. It's nothing except the primary

thing here is time and patience. And so, the thing I do is when you're implementing that tool of cardio, I actually advocate of cutting food first rather than putting in cardio, and I know there's like your different energy flux systems. If you're trying to run a higher caloric output with the hydrochloric intake, still crepe that deficit.

But in my opinion, when you can exert your energy or prioritize your Gee output with resistance training for muscle preservation purposes, and then, and then not implementing that cardio because cardio does take a level of recovery, right? So just more cortisol responses or just just recovery in general especially if you're doing hit sessions and stuff, stuff like that. I just feel like it puts more strain on your body and I've seen that your overall look

going into your last week. Or peak week, you look a lot less stressed or a better, you know, blossoming moment of the end. Look that makes sense. Yeah, it's much easier to just come in looking super flat. If you're doing, you know, an hour plus a cardio a day with any form of cardio, but no, especially for doing longer forms of cardio, you know, in several days leading up to like, you're just not going to look as full.

Yeah, Harbor Second. And that's where, like, you know, I did have to do, like I said, it's no cardio through the hole and I think I started it. 211. And, you know, my ending the very last, the Nationals, you know, I weighed in and 165 or whatever that cap was your start with lemon. A yeah, I pushed her have your offices. Yeah, and I usually don't push it that I probably won't push it that far this time. But definitely this kind of tried to stay in that gaining

face as long as possible. And I still, you know, still showed like a little tiny bit of an outline of the ABS, right? So like, well, Keep pushing it. I guess. How long was your baby, too? So we started because travel in the country a little bit there and we started probably spring or summer of twenty, twenty one. So I had to wait at least a six or eight months prep, you know, if not a little bit somewhere in there. You know, I'm always I always say there's never really an offseason.

There's always on season just different phases of it. Right? So I was, you know, everything's being hit and track and manage. But I would say the diet. In process problem started eight months out or so somewhere around there. Yeah, I think, you know, that's, that's definitely a mistake. I see a lot of monks people that are wanting to lose body fat and lean out, they don't get themselves near enough time. I mean, my first show before I

knew what the hell I was doing. I was 2:30 and I've never gotten that heavy since, but I'm only 57 58, so I'm not much taller than you and I gave myself 12 weeks and I lost 80 pounds in 12 weeks. Oh my God. Total nightmare. Like it was like, I would not wish that on my worst. It's enemy.

So now I give myself like, you know, five, six months pretty much as just a baseline like, no matter what, I'm giving myself five or six months, but now I honestly stay like I'm one 81-83 right now and I compete in like 160. So I'm still within about 20 pounds of stage. Wait. Yeah, and I love that, too, because you get in here. I don't know how you feel. You'd let me know, but, like, you getting your optimal kind of performance range, right? You have like your your range

that you fluctuate? Maybe 15, 20 pounds. Up and down but still feel like your training is productive energy. I mean, everything is going working well and you can kind of bounce up and down throughout that scale range. Still make progress. But yeah, not set yourself up for a prep. You got to lose 50 plus pounds because that's that's mentally grueling. I see people do it and I'm like, man, that's that's a lot. Like I wouldn't even do that.

You know, it's, you know, know it's it's a it's definitely a mind trip when you get a see the You see the scale? Drop that much time to know that you're going to be competitive. I mean like right now I do, I mean I'm stronger than ever been. Right now. I'm lifting heavier and look at hoarder feel really good. But I go run every day. Like I'm a, I'm doing a 50 mile run this weekend. Holy cow, dude, that's crazy. But it's kind of, its kind of weird doing that.

David Goggins four by four by forty eight. So running for Miles every four hours for 48 hours. So 48 miles by probably going to do another two to make it an even 50, but I don't think that's Conducive to bodybuilding. Like I'm not suggesting that, then people do that. But besides that, I'm running, like a mile every single day, just because I like the, you know, mental break that it gives me, but I'm probably going to stop that after this 50-mile deal because I'm going to start

prepping again later this year. And I want to make sure that my cardio bass lines a little bit lower than running every single day. Yeah. Yeah. I know, that totally makes sense. And, you know, honestly, dude, I would say, from a physiological. A logical perspective. Like yeah, it just not as beneficial to body like you said, but I think that it has actually a huge impact of, you know, you doing that. That that correlates over into the psychological part of contest dieting, right?

Yeah, for sure. And a lot of people they don't, I don't think about that. Have the mental part of it. But, you know, you tell me your thoughts, but I think that to get to the conditioning, you need to get to. And you can have the best strategy in place, but if you're not able to mentally withstand the, you know what, it takes to get there. Then you know, you don't have all the tools in the toolbox yet. You know what I mean? Yeah.

I mean, my my my best attribute as a body butter is certainly not my size or stature genetics or any of that stuff like my, you know, trick, so to speak. It just simply being relentlessly consistent towards whatever I say I'm going to do it. I've got to set macros for the week. I will not deviate it from. If I've got a training. Plan for that day. I will not deviate from, like, I just am consistent with everything throughout the entire four, five, six months span, and

that's my hack. So to speak, you know, I love it. Now. That's what, and that's the funny part. It's a lot of people, I feel like you're out there looking for all this information of how to do their diet, early training, and all that. And that's all viable stuff. Right, but I think that, you know what, I started to notice this myself naturally, preaching more as the psychological part of whether it's dieting or Are gaining days or a contest prep

or just a normal? You know, my mom just had a couple of kids trying to get back into it or a military guy like no different demographics. You know, I feel like that psychological component. Like you said, it's your own pack, but I feel like that's become in my eyes, really big. If not the biggest portion of the pie, the people, if they get a hold of that, and they can conquer and create that, like you said, would you say Relentless consistency?

I love that. Yeah. If you can adapt, that is the skill set or have it, you know, make it habitual. I mean, you're pretty much Unstoppable at that point, you know, I feel like that's that's the one thing that I mean, it doesn't like when you look at bodybuilding and you and I both body butter. So I feel like it's very says, like you can dive super deep into the rabbit hole of nutrition or training or programming or any of that stuff like you can go as deep as you

want to get with that. But if you if you extrapolate all that out and just look at it from a high-level view, like you can look pretty freaking awesome with the Basics with the common sense techniques, and it's honestly not that, you know, it's pretty, it's pretty simple. It's not easy, but it's pretty simple. So if you just simply consistently, apply those techniques apply, those common-sense principles, you're going to look pretty.

Dang, good, but most people falter with that consistency aspect of it. So you get that down, then it's all downhill from there. Yeah, no, I don't resent doing that. The thing that's not sexy. Right? The thing is called consistency of doing the same thing day in and day out. It's not, it's not the sexy things being marketed to saying,

it's a quick fix and all that. So it is hard and I totally get that and I do think that there is a little bit of the mental part of like, being able to adapt that skill set, but I want to know, because I have been really kind. Transitioning. Our like go about things with coaching people over the last probably a year or two. But how do you approach clients with their nutritional kind of structure of the flexibility of it within a macro count?

Yes. I mean, I've got like the way I do my clients and this is going to hold true, whether they're stepping on the stage, trying to improve the body comp, but I give them macros every single week. So I adjust their macros on Friday or Saturday for the Coming week. I have a spreadsheet. I put the macros in there and then I basically have them get within five grams of those goal, macros, if possible.

It's kind of like, the way you want to drive, because if they're consistently getting within 5, G that I'm able to see how their body is responding, and then I can make better adjustments from going forward. So all my clients are ketogenic. So they're all, you know, following a ketogenic macro distribution, but they have more flexibility with regards to like if they want to mix up the types of fats and types of proteins and types of vegetables are using to hit those.

Macros, and then it's all coming from good quality sources, like, I'm fine with that. Gotcha know, that sounds kind of like how I go about it in a more of a traditional macro distribution is to macro count, just kind of adjust things accordingly and checking and stuff like that. Because I feel like maybe you notice that client like prior to being a client like applicants it previous programs or diet plans or whatever they started with getting into and we'll just

make an example of the key. World. They were like following a specific laid out meal plan before coming to you. Do you often see that? Yeah, see that a lot in. I've got I'm honestly like never really been a fan of meal plans because I people people and they just look at a standardized meal plan. They see. I don't even way out their food have a time. They just say, Okay, chicken breast and broccoli. So I'll just eat chicken breast

and Bach broccoli. With no, no, inkling of an idea of how much chicken breast or broccoli. They want to do, but at the same time, one of the arguments I've seen in favor of meal plans. If you're weighing it out obviously, is that a lot of times people just do macros and they're pretty removed from the equation.

Like, coaches will just send a, you know, an email to her client with the, with some accurate recommendations and their clients will deviate, you know, quite a bit broader than that, 5 grand window, for instance and then it becomes really hard to get things dialed in as well. So in that scenario, it might make sense to have a meal plan. I mean, you can't have to just like for me, I'm very, you know, straight for with my clients.

I'm like, look, I can't really be the best coach I can be for you. If you're not even hitting the numbers I'm giving you. So if you're not seeing the results that you're wanting, but you're not hitting anywhere close to the numbers. I'm giving you like, this is just a good fit, you know? Yeah, 100%. I love that. Yeah, I feel like there's the needs to be more transparency like that in the realm of the

fitness room. But, um, yeah, I was asking you because, you know, I'm noticing the same thing with with Starting out with fad dieting, right? Or yo-yo dieting before maybe coming on board and seeing for a good fit. Maybe you experienced applicants coming in and they tried like I said, diet plan or something where they may be did get a little progress, but then I gained the weight back and now they're looking for that answer and I feel like going the route that you explain, and that's

I've really transitioned. I was already like that but I do have deeper into the psychological part of that over the last Year 2 of actually being able to provide more education to the client when having that flexible approach, because I feel like a lot of times people will will say, okay, what do I need to be eating? And they will say, in terms of our food selection, or food, type, or Source, or how many calories, or, you know, what should I be eating? What is the best thing to lose

fat? One and say, for example, and it's really there's so many other factors that go into it in my eyes. Eyes. And maybe you've seen this as the process of understanding and learning how to adapt is the biggest skill that if people can really acquire, it's not like everybody can measure out on a scale, 4 ounces, right? But being able to be able to withstand curveballs or audibles.

I call you gotta, you gotta get a call, your audible during the day, when your work schedule, your social event schedule your you know, school schedule, whatever it is all of those factors in your day to day. Obviously will impact what we're able to eat when we're able to eat, you know, all those things. Right? And so, that's what I've really realized is, is over last couple years is understanding what makes people tick and how they handle stress, and how they're

able to adapt. And I feel like going that flexible approach, if you want to throw in some meal timing, if you want, you know, different level of clients. They're wanting different things of how crazy into it. They are right. Or is more a lifestyle approach workers. Is more of a contest prep, but but being able to educate them and help them in their specific scenarios of what their schedule looks like with their stress.

Looks like, and all that kind of stuff like allows clients to now just progress and have progress or have results. But also learn how to sustain it for long term. No, I mean 100% agreement never get, you know clients that like they're in a building phase or not really as strict with their macro tracking. There, you know, we're ensuring that they're getting enough calories enough protein, etc. Etc. And all their lips are going up.

You know, that's great. That's sustainable for them where they're at. If somebody's coming to me and they're want to Simply, you know, get to the desired body composition as efficiently and effectively as possible and pull out all the stops and a perfect world scenario. Then I've got them hitting those macros within 5, G and meal prepping, and the beauty of Aikido, you know, approach to this is that meal prep is so much easier.

Because I mean, I'm only typically One or two meals a day, like when you're eating once or twice a day meal prep is a breeze. Yeah, that is one thing. I've always even think I'd last time we talked away backgrounds and I gotta try this keto thing because man, like not time prep in and and running, he like, he tells energy like you feel better. No, no insulin spikes and crashes, blood, glucose crashes during the day, you know, and all that stuff. So because yeah, they're great.

Now I got told you by Lois, Clark and table. Outside with your hunter or something sorts, but now up regulating show. It's been crazy because I wanted to document it for people to understand what is possible. Coming out of a dieting face. Going back into a controlled increase of food, going into maintenance and then a slight Surplus even, but I think that I'm experiencing an unusual amount honestly, right now. I'm, you know, I don't know how

much you've seen. My, my stories and stuff from about 11. Weeks post. Show. I still have my glutes striated and I'm eating like 3,600 calories online low days and 4000 on my high days. So that's that's so important. And so I definitely want to talk on that because I see if I had to pinpoint the biggest. I don't know misstep that I see people making and nutritional, you know, dietary circles and body re compositional circles. It's that people are chronically

restricting. And they don't know how to properly reverse diet. So I've been beaten that horse. You know, from day one screaming from the rooftops, but I think you know, you've done a you Illustrated perfectly, what's possible? If you're coming out of a deficit and you got a plan, you get a strategy and you increase those calories with that strategy. And I mean, you're holding on to all your definition and you look freaking amazing. And you're eating, you know,

3,000 4,000 calories a day. Yeah. Yeah. No, we could definitely dive into that because I think I would like to hear more about your approach with a post-show to because I think back when you Figure out what show you did. You told me you were going to do somebody else's post show fat, loading or something of sorts, right? And you just blasted fat super high, super high, caloric intake, and you actually stayed

straight it for you. No, I'm saying I would like to learn a little more about what you did to but yeah, definitely, I think we can dive into what happened, doing. Whatever questions you got. Are you doing just like a slow and gradual increase of all, macros, or across the board coming out of the shower? Kind of, how do you have that broken down? Yeah, I think that kind of what I've learned and notices for competitors. Let's say what slightly we treat this process like a like pushing

like a pendulum right harder. You push the pendulum the harder. It can come back at you, write the force. So I think that most times I can you just brought up is especially see this with bikini competitors, but the, when you push super hard and we'll A were in a deficit, for a long time. We get to that conditioning, we need should be low in calories. The first initial thought there's this mind game because the body image is a factor. You got to play into of the person but they offer.

Oftentimes will go post show and they'll eat all this food binge or whatever, right? And then they'll see some scale, adjusting adjustments, sea, water, retention, and then they'll immediately resort to not liking that. Look and look, go back down to the lower intake of calories of what they were at. The problem is is because of,

you know, metabolic adaptation. You are adapted to that low caloric intake and all that pulse of food does not mean that you just upregulated your metabolism to be able to meet those standards going forward, right? So when you accumulate body fat, you're still have a suppressed, you know, hormones all across the board. Essentially where Doing that. Like, how do I put this? You can't just go die it again. Like, you can't just go back and do things, right? You can't that you're gonna have

to try and dry it off the fat. You just died it off. But in order to do that, you'd have to go even lower. Yeah even lower than you were already doing before because your adapted it that maintenance right? So I think the on the opposite end coma coming out of the show people can actually be a little more aggressive. With putting in food, then what people would think if here's the caveat if it's in a controlled manner, right?

That's the hardest part for people is the aspect of post-show or post dieting to Annex decent, you know. Trim level body. Fat is.

If they binge then, increasing food at a rapid rate is not going to work, but because of what we just explained before, but if you do in a controlled fashion, like, for example, I think for myself For I know that my frame and mind, you know, metabolic function is different than other people, but I think I added in at least 90 100 grams of carbs, straight, right?

After, you know, show go into my next week and at least probably 15, 20 grams of fat, you know, I increase counters really quick and got my calories up pretty fast the first probably three to four weeks but didn't controlled fashion. I didn't bend, I didn't overeat. I mean, heck Cliff, he had to convince me to go out to eat with Kaylee. My fiancé because I'm like, no, no. No, I want to I want to see what happened as we're filling up here to see if we can even PQ and harder.

Right? That's me. That's my mindset. And I'm like, no, I the sufferings. Okay, let's just keep trying new things and see what happens. Right? So, but, uh, but yeah, so I would say that once you go through this process, where you can probably you can push food least from my traditional kind of will say carbohydrates and bringing those up as well as fat. I would say the protein stays the same. In my lowest protein intake, those probably 230 grams and you

keep your protein. Pretty much constant throughout the whole prep, right? Yeah, I would say that will actually push protein higher in the offseason. Once you're like, wait what? But I just really like to try and preserve as much insulin resistance. So we'll push, you know, obviously carbon fats as high as we can go. They'll start adding some protein and kind of inching our way and then actually most people will say Don't cut protein during the battle phase.

But I think that I mean I get the the logic, the theory behind that but well actually cut things out. You gotta Cook County, good cook a little tray, right? And so I think they will say my top end for last offseason, probably 260 to 270 grams protein intake and then we'll just kind of chipped away at that a little bit. Do you remember my Prime was at that show that you saw me in?

No, I don't feel much like raised, but you'll never guess it. I remember, I couldn't of you're following your stuff and I was trying to understand it better and I don't matter if you're liking the hundreds. So g 65. Yeah, and that's it for. I go any further. Let me just tell people. Listen. I'm not advocating people at 65 grams of protein. I was basically just pushing the envelope to see how low I could go without any adverse effects.

And I went to 65 grams for a finite period of time and saw no adverse. X, but it's crazy because like you tell that to people in the traditional, you know, bodybuilding protocols. It's like, you know, they're doing 265 grams. Yeah, exactly. No, you're out of the right. And that's where I think that, you know, you're the trigger queue approach for sure is loved

every exercise. I know you gotta I'm not in full understanding of all the same in-depth information is like, you probably utilizing but to withhold muscle tissue. It's a little different. I think that a lot of Quito get it isn't there? Like variations, you know, with like a, what's the name? Date Palumbo. Kind of Quito. Whatever it will save bodybuilder Realm. Is variation and there's like a key will even try and convince me.

This is like a cheap carbohydrate load muscle, brought muscle glycogen replenishment on, you know, once a week and then dive back into ketosis and he will show me different routes, and I don't know what your exact route is of what you follow, but I think it sounds like the more actual medicinal, like, traditional route of a ketogenic diet. Is that what you kind of follow? Yeah, man. It's kind of crazy, like, like the die.

Diets. The ketogenic that's kind of gotten bastardized over the past few years. Like people have got these different versions of key to the point where it's not even key to any more like you doing car Bumps by definition. It's not keto. I mean, that's just yeah, that's what I was. I was I was wondering because I've because obviously you're not going to self out and filling up and but I've noticed I don't know if you tried it, but people who go deeper into

ketosis. I've seen some data points where the deeper you go into. Joseph. I've been have that carbohydrate day and maybe supplement with some other figure out what kind of salt beach be or yeah, different salts. They try to bring yourself back into ketosis, but the deeper your in ketosis. The easier it is to get back into keto secret. Knock yourself out. Is that, is that true that valid? I'm not really sure.

Yeah. I mean, your body, your body develops, metabolic pathways to shuttle ketones, you know, through the body. So like if you are in a deep level of ketosis, you it's like you're losing all those metabolic pathways. If you deviate And so it's definitely easier to get back on track when you do and people that do go back and forth, you know, like that's their money, their prerogative more power to them.

But my thing is always been trying to optimize bodybuilding natural bodybuilding from a ketogenic standpoint while following a legitimate ketogenic diets. So I've not done the crazy car Buffs since I've been doing it Quito. Yeah, but I'm isn't, I mean people have been getting freakin crazy lean and when it shows doing all kinds of diets, so yeah, great. There's a lot of different ways. It's going to cancel.

Let us think, you know as yep. Exactly. %. Ya know, and that's that's very interesting because I think, I even remember seeing some of your some content about body composition stuff and especially your strength. You're like, hey, I haven't had any carbs today and I just ER, right? And it's just really interesting. It's cool to see and that's why I feel like there's. He's, there's coaches out there that are like preach one thing. Just one thing and talk shit

about the other. Honestly, rip the real. E of it is that I don't think there needs to be a bunch of trash talking and everybody has their own methodology and not, everybody can be like you just said it's not what more than her. There's more than one way to skin a cat. And I think that the cool part is were all chasing like Optimal results with that one pathway that we really enjoy learning more about and then comparing

it, right? And we're always trying to be the winner, obviously, because we're all competitive, like, are always better, but there's obviously a clickable stuff. Each individual kind of nutrition route. Like I think that and I was going to ask you about this too, because I had a buddy that diagnosed with cancer. I think it was about a year ago or something and he got it all figured out, but I saw that he's one of my best friends are like

bad. I don't I'm not familiar or in depth with the information for ketogenic diet and to Aid in this. But I do know that there is a lot of evidence out there. I just have a dope into it, you know. And I was going to ask you about is if you've, if you did of into the kind of more the medical or that disease route with utilizing that the ketogenic diet. I mean, that's probably where the ketogenic that truly shines. I mean, they're the research that's been done and is being done right now.

From a medical front for using the kids drink diet, for patients with cancer near generative disease like that. That's what's got me more excited to anything in the performance realm, to be honest. I love the performance from, I mean, I'm a performance athletes. That's A, what I resonate most with, but the efficacy of the kids drink diet, in mitigating the adverse effects of cancer patients. And people who have Alzheimer's dementia, things of that nature is really, really promising.

Yeah, that's what I've seen and so that's what sparked my interest about it too. But yeah, I really like that. How your that's kind of a traditional, you know, medicinal route. And I like how you're putting it in the performance for them because a lot of people have different opinions. Obviously, but you're showcasing that, you know, keto still has its still it's not, it shouldn't be overlooked. I guess in terms of performance,

right? Yeah, our body billion general, you know, and so because I'll yeah, you're like, the underdog. I love that. You know what I'm saying, especially the bodybuilding room. Yeah. I feel like bodybuilders are definitely going to be the last to adopt or even. I don't need to know if I ever will adopt in legitimate. Ketogenic approach form, you know, mainstream bodybuilding. It's probably always. Going to be on The Fringe.

But I mean, I'm okay with that. Like, I'm not trying to take over the world with what the prominent dining protocol is by any means. And, you know, to each their own whatever's, most sustainable to you and best for you, you know, keep doing that. I mean, that's why I want to get you on the show because, I mean, you look freaking amazing. You look healthy, you're eating, you know, ton of calories. Now, post-show. You got a smile on your face.

I mean, you're obviously doing something, right? Yeah. No, I appreciate that. Yeah, it's been fun. It's been interesting to just see cuz I'm just like I said a big advocate of just constant constantly acquiring his most consistent data as I possibly can going forward, right? I think that a lot of people probably think I'm crazy. Honestly. Because post-show, all, they're thinking about is burger and fries or whatever the hell they think about.

But I told kettle of gaily and like, look, I got to be able to track if we're gonna go out to eat or whatever we're doing it.

Can we just cook here? Because I want to be able to track and see what happens because you're just in such a Sort of position that you're not going to be able to maintain, you shouldn't maintained for a long-standing period of time, just from an appearance standpoint, but I want to acquire as much data as I possibly can because that data gives you the ability to make really good projections for the future. You know what I mean? It's so kind. So editors to just go off the

rails. Post-show, and even if they're tracking, like, they'll have, like, one or two or three days that are just not tracking, and then it's just like, it's total crap. She like, you have no idea what you're taking in. It's probably north of 10,000 calories. I mean, it's just a ton of food, and I've got one client right now. She's a bikini competitor. She competed 22 weeks ago and we

got her down. I think as low as I think 1400 calories was as low as we went and she's been reversed outing since then and she's currently at 2,100 calories. And she weighs she weighed 113 on show day and she weighs 110 now lifting more weight on all of her lips, like, Considerably and of all, my clients. She's probably the one that has been the strictest. Post-show like, she's like, hitting all your Macros on the hand like perfectly, post-show like, like as if she were doing a print.

Like, she's post-show now, though. So, like seeing that kind of opened my eyes to the point because even I like I'll get a little more aggressive because I know I can post show and I'll stay, you know, within a reasonable weight, but I don't get nearly as strict as she has been but seeing her as strict as she had, it's like shoot. I'm motivated to go this rigid with it because I mean seeing her weight actually go down and her conditioning continue to improve while her lips have gone up.

It's like it's kind of eye-opening to me. Yeah. No, I love that too. And that's, that's super cool. You got to witness and you had somebody that could eventually do with stained and actually go through that control environment because yeah, you get to see a lot of very interesting things that I think that, you know, reversing out of that. It didn't go in a controlled route and The Implement more calories is just starting to shed distress off a person, right?

And you can see the just the positive effects of that, and that's super cool. She even got leaner because that's what I was experiencing between. Each of my shows is that little bit of up regulation, especially after the Nationals and stuff. I started to increase in food pretty aggressively, but controlled my stret. I didn't even I most people, you know, how you go to the gym. Post-show and you have all these carbs loaded and you go and get a huge pump and your little heavier.

You getting excited to be back in the gym, but you're still your body still like fatigue from that extensive. Oh, yeah. Hounding, you just put on it. Right? And so what I really prioritized is sleep, and actually I reduced my training intensity where like I would go in the gym and I would not trained like, you know soft, but I wouldn't be training. Super intensely, you know, just getting some Amen.

And prioritizing honestly distress and and and I kind of started separate my mind away from bodybuilding and more into, like, my business and my relationship with my fiancé, just kind of get my mind off things that I've been in that realm for the last six to eight months. Right. And started try to shed stress off and I felt like in doing so and trying to recover for more of an internal endocrine standpoint. I feel like that, you know, I don't know for sure.

I don't have a Actual science or data showing this. But I would assume that I have some correlation to the amount of increased caloric intake that I've been able to withstand and still hold this lower body fat percentage, you know, percent and with you, you know what I mean? So I like I said, I'll have like actual scientific blood markers and all this kind of stuff, the Showcase. But I do think there is definitely some some Merit behind people may be focusing a little more on their stress

reduction. And maybe pulling back on the intensity of your training plan. Your body like recover for a second and focusing outside of body building or whatever it is. Is it your stress or your mind, you know, all those emotional emotions and stuff fluctuating during prep, when you're in local or levels and low body fat levels, all that kind of stuff, obviously happens, but coming out of it.

Yeah. I don't know your thoughts and what she's kind of relate to you in terms of post-show and reverse dieting and going through that, even maybe do you notice that? It by fat percentage is withstanding or if I should getting leaner. She's deaf. I mean, she's I mean her body fat probably stayed pretty consistent. But I mean, it's like it hasn't gone up from what it was during

peak week, which is quite. So it's already like at its lowest and it's very still showcasing all those same lines and separation between the muscles. So I mean, she looks amazing and she's lifting heavier. So I mean that's been a pretty big eye-opener to see there but 100% agree with you on the stress. I mean, I think the amount of I mean if you're crazy stress, All of them in your testosterone is going to take a massive nosedive. If you're not sleeping your

recovery. So your training frequency and intensity is going to dive. I mean, everything is going to be dictated based off of your levels of stress and I feel like my personality type is such that I just white-knuckle it all the way through which only increases stress and kind of wines a foot.

I think all these body butters are just smoke weed throughout their entire pressure on it became that, that's not what I'm doing, but I Feel like I feel like there's probably some method to that Madness, you know, you just like in this happy-go-lucky mind-state the whole way through and like you probably feel and perform better because of it. Yeah. No, I remember back to the yeah. It's a lot of love by Builders do and they like no, I don't

drink. I just smoke weed and I'm like, okay, but I totally get it. Like you're right. I think probably some method to that Madness, but I'm just not a huge. I'm not a person that, you know, smokes weed. But yeah, I can see why and I think that as long as they can keep their sleep actually getting into REM Cycles everything while, you know, using that as an aide. And yeah, I bet you probably

helps them a lot. But yeah, I think that will happen the same as you though, white-knuckling it and that's kind of the biggest lot of people say.

Yeah, when they will say they do well, they were in a show or they placed a certain placing at Nationals and everybody's congratulating me. You know, me on some of those SS I had and I really appreciate it and it's it's awesome to feel like you accomplished something in that sorts, but really my biggest accomplishment for those this last contest prep had nothing to do with my placing or any of that stuff.

It's it was actually the growth in the mental part of prep, being able to manage emotions stress work life social life. All those balances and still being able to achieve that level of conditioning that I got to. If that makes sense totally mild. It's super commendable. Yeah. This because like that was my I guess it kind of came up because I remember it was probably and Club hasn't peed in a while because of some things going on, but it's probably like two three years ago.

I think it was funny, guys, Pro card. I remember talking with them and he was in peak week and he's laughing. And on the phone happy-go-lucky and I see. And he said, yeah, I'm just kind of busy. I'm moving houses right now. I said, you're in, we're peak week and you're moving like, like, you have the energy to do that. Yeah. Yeah.

We were just getting it done. And it took that moment where he told me, you know, his biggest accomplishment was when his wife at the time, they're not tail anymore, but I told him that she didn't notice a difference of Is him personally of the personality, or snapping at or any of those kind of variables from the time, he was out of prep to the day of the show email. He withstood his character personality. He was, you know, showed the tension or, you know, they have a daughter.

Now, all those factors and life, a lot of people. I feel like start to sacrifice or feel like they need to sacrifice certain things in order to keep progressing. And in terms of getting to that Elite level of conditioning, right? Right, could ya your energies down emotions? Are a little elevated, all that stuff. But I think that everybody has control or is has the ability to control those factors, right? No, I think that should be the goal, for sure.

I don't know that I've made through yet. Like my wife can definitely tell when I'm in a prep versus low, however, say, yeah, definitely not made there. But at least you keep inching your way. I think every prep you will get better and better but that's kind of like my goal. And so that. Yeah, tell me yours. Experience though. Yeah, I think I think that definitely improves with the number of preps. You go through collect the first prep, you do you have no perspective.

And with that complete, lack of perspective, you have this massive fear of the unknown and that Stress and Anxiety weighs. So heavily on you and your day-to-day, you know, demeanor that you just become this miserable wreck.

No matter what you're doing. And then as you do, more and more certain like, the first row is always the hardest, but then, as you Do more and more shows and you gain that perspective like you're able to juggle everything much more efficient and it's not like this huge overbearing weight that just constantly burdens you. Yeah. No, I agree 100% because exactly what you said, a lot of people don't take into account just that stress of the unknowing,

right? It's just like anything in life when you don't know it just you know, know how to prepare for or anything like that. Right?

And so yeah, I would definitely say the first show is probably the most exciting because you're getting on, you know, for the first time on stage and optional this but definitely the most stressful, the Because I think that it's like that mental barrier that each show or each, but maybe you've seen this, you've been able to push a little further down with a little more Comfort. I guess you'd say that because you know when that next phase of.

Okay, here's when the brain fog starts to kick in or here's where I know my energies might get down a little bit or here's where, you know, whatever happens like it's just going to happen. Right? And you just got to embrace it. That this is part of the process, right? Totally man. Um, so I I agree with you there. I'm curious. Have you noticed? Because you competed naturally prior to the the tumor, right? Yeah.

Have you noticed like what have you noticed in regards to changes in performance recovery, sleep energy conditioning with the addition of the trt. Like, is it pretty tangible difference? What's a good question? A lot of moving factors there? I would say that. The look of the physique, I can say definitely different. And I've actually tried to, it's funny. I've been texting, you know, I'm enhanced and using these

different. I've used testosterone, but I'll be completely transparent, usage of different Peds as well. And the funny part is, is the more I'm trying to be in the growth of gain muscle tissue and going down this route of the untested and PC. And ifbb is I'm trying to withstand Natural body. Builders look, just with a bigger this more muscle mass accumulated. Does that make sense? Yeah, like tight, good stuff. Tight waist. Actual death.

Like the Shred, the striations and the cuts and everything from a natural body builder perspective. Like I've seen the look is a lot different especially in the enhance world. When people push chillingly hard drug usage, especially implementing, you know, if you're using form of insulin and different, The look of the muscle just becomes different. It's a little more inflated. You don't see as many lines. Right?

And I really admire and respect heavily, the look of natural body builders because you could tell, you can like really tell their hard-earned what like their life story through their muscle density and all this kind of stuff. Right? It's kind of weird to say, but that's it just it's more of an art look, you know, it's actual aesthetically pleasing in my eyes.

And so I try to chase that That and that's why I another I'm an advocate of not pushing super hard with that increased from usage because yeah, it's gonna take me a lot longer. If I even one day potentially turn pro. Who knows? I'm not worried about it, but it'll take me because of my process is a lot different than

guys. So I figure out my age pushing at least four times the amount or five times or more that I use in terms of drug usage, to try and get as big as possible to be able to be to the size that you need to be in order to play at the highwomen. Our level of by Billy great but it's not really what it's all about my eyes. I totally get it and respect it and you know, people go that route. That's totally cool. That's their choice. Right?

But in my eyes it's funny to say but I feel like I'm chasing a natural body. Builders. Look just with more accumulated muscle tissue, right? Yeah. Now, there's definitely a different look that I've tried to, like, pinpointed and put it into words, but I feel like you didn't much better job than I could have, but it's like The the depth of the, the muscle cuts and the grayness and just the level of conditioning seems to pop a lot more on like the the world's greatest natural

competitor. Looks much more conditioned in the world's greatest enhanced competitor, you know, like on IMDb stage in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah, I guess that paper thin but just the especially the glutes everything. Yeah. I just it's just a different look and I don't know. You know, can't say all the mechanisms behind it and

everything. Obviously, this enhanced anabolic effects of the Peds. And now, the one thing that I learned heavily lifted to, it was great to see, we recorded, very stringent data points, but the usage of certain compounds. But also, when removing certain compounds at certain times, definitely heavily affects the ending look. Because, actually, once I removed things, Some things and technically, post-show just coming, you know, releasing all

that. And just being on tier key dose of testosterone for a little bit, and I actually just got done bridging with, no testosterone replacement therapy. And just having a doctor familiar with bridging protocols or PCT.

Protocols of using terms, like clomiphene or people use different ones with a CG in there to kind of stimulate natural production again, but I was It more for fertility purposes because I know couldn't stay there forever and keep a good range of testosterone but for fertility purposes, so hopefully that's yeah. Yeah, right. I just bridge look that but I noticed that the retention of water is that the look I've started almost look a little bit

harder. Coming off some things that really opened the eyes of Life gate who probably could actually change things and not have to deplete so hard. The come into this, the cap of the scale, wait for that division that we want to get to without having to push more stress, but actually just made me bring a little bit of dosages or compound in a certain way. That makes sense. Yeah. So very, very, very interesting

kind of data points. We got there, but in terms of, I don't know what you ask maybe like in terms of dieting or training and Recovery, you said yeah and like any like, strength changes. I would imagine your ability to Raintree. Pain muscle and continue to lift as hard. And heavy is probably heads a little bit in the favor of one. That is enhanced.

Yeah, I would say. So I say, I personally experienced more of those strengths and those kind of wholeness and they all that kind of stuff more and my offseason when implementing something or my sorry, not in the dieting for that cuz I don't say offseason rates on season, but just in a higher body fat percentage when you're not dieting for show, yeah. That's what I would notice. Usually a lot more but I would say yeah muscle preservation.

Definitely. I've noticed the keeping I was holding on. I was really trying to hold on to my quad fullness as per dear life, you know, and finally it was just kind of the last week's. It'll you made a decision to bring in the glutes L'Amour obviously. And you know, I the end look was what I was couldn't. Couldn't have beat it.

I had my opinion, but but yeah, I definitely think that holding on Strengthen and some fullness of the muscle muscle preservation, almost things definitely enhance athlete. You can hold onto. You can usually push a little harder to you'll notice like with my enhanced versus my natural competitors, depending on how you do your your prep. If you push. Like I push harder personally on

the front end of a dating phase. So most people get confused when I'm like, okay, we're five months out, six months out. We're going to start trying to lose it. A pound and a half or two pound loss a week. Right now, they're like, wait, what? We're so far out, but it's just thinking about the foreshadowing of the few. Like, what's going to separate you? From your competition on stage. You can separate them by conditioning, right? And so usually, you know, everybody's pushing eight weeks

out. Everybody's doing tons of cardio and eating nothing and, you know, trying to get shredded, but what are they doing right now? Six months out? A lot of people are out messed around bars and all that kind of stuff. But the reality of it is, if you could push now at a higher body fat percentage, it gives you a chance to Reservoir of that muscle tissue when you are at a leaner body fat percentage, if you slow down that rate of loss, when you are leaner, right?

So that's kind of how I go about things for, for those people. I find out what else we're talking about there. But yeah, I just wanted to mention. No, I think that's super important, man. I feel like you know, a lot of people they they they don't they're kind of fast and loose with in the beginning and they

just crammed time at the end. It's much better to come into conditioning earlier or just shy of it and kind of Coast into the prep or into the peak week as opposed to you know, everything going ballistic right there at the end percent. Yeah, and then you might even experience like what you're talking about with your bikini. Competitor is a as you can start. Feeding them up into the show

actually. Yeah. I actually have a feeling I have a guy that's competing in the he's gonna stretch, it shows on the East Coast, Maryland and one of them is in Baltimore and I do some over there and you know what I noticed. Is he didn't know it, but his sodium intake was so extremely high. He actually started getting headaches and he wasn't crappy and I don't have people just like when there's so much to track. It becomes more stress of so

much to do, right? So normally, I'm not just natural levels of whatever I try to shoot for at least a 25 hundred, maybe 3000 mg minimum, but I'm not going to be too standing on it. You know, I know there's going to be a different fluctuation of water in pictures or whatever. But I'm not worried about it right now, but he was having such a high amount of started getting headaches. And obviously it is fluid consumption. Couldn't offset. That ratio was just doing some

extreme amount, right? And and so when push them and he's already either as a guy can metabolize carbohydrates very, very well. And so it's Clark intake is still pretty high relatively to most people coming in and being very lean. And I suspect because we noticed that And we reducing sodium and he already started just losing obviously weight, just naturally because of that lowering of sodium. And I would suspect that because of that word, actually not going to have to keep cutting food to

get leaner. He's actually going to be starting to increase food into the show. Just just because you're looking at a different variable, but but you're ready early. It's never, it's never bad to be ready, early. Right? I think that's what your kind of alluding to. Yeah, but it sucks. You can't fix when you're not ready in time. Hey, no, totally mean.

I feel like if you're, if you're able to speak earlier, it's much easier to hold onto that and kind of add a little bit more polish than it is to try and fix it on the tail end because then you could be more aggressive with the amount of the refeed calories, and, you know, fill out a little bit.

When I do a bunch of trial, refeeds in the weeks, prior to the actual peak week, so I can figure out what intake of fats and proteins and electrolytes and water, they respond best to If you only if you already are coming in sharp, several weeks prior and you have more weeks to really try that out and optimized for it and you're way ahead of the game. Yeah, no, I would I would agree. Yeah, I think that this is my

stretch. I mean I didn't do trial people Express because I knew I was going to do like three maybe four shows. So I was using that first one. I've got a as my trial, I guess you'd say because I wasn't like a huge or a, you know, Big Show that I was trying to, you know, do you know win or whatever. And I don't have didn't even winning that one to piss me off. Absolutely. This guy came in just don't know where he came from, but he Beat

me out when I got s about one. But anyways, trialing is great

though. I think that you're spot on there because allows you to see how you personally respond to your protocol and you're loading and that's where you get to see and it's okay to spill over, you know, because you can fix it, you got time, obviously, to then go into your actual Peak and know, you can't push it as hard, but I think a lot of times people will find during their trial, Peak is, they can push actually harder Other than they think? Yeah, totally. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it kind of gives them confidence to because they can see where they can, you know, be more aggressive or be more conservative. And then, if they have that knowledge going into the actual Peak Week, their level of stress, during peak week is significantly reduced. So then they're not holding a much unnecessary fluid from that stress. 100% Exactly. Exactly. Yep. I agree. 100% but shoot man. I don't want to take all your day here. What's in the pipeline for you? Get me.

I know you're probably done competing for the season. Yeah, not even trying to get me to bridge over because I seems like I could be here pretty quickly with just, for some reason, keeping these low body fat percentages. But, uh, now I mean, I gotta take time to grow obviously and who knows when I'll compete again. Like I said, my primary goal isn't isn't the pro card, but I just love this stuff and I love being able to acquire more

information to help. I want to be more of a coaching role, you know, we are insolvent in, right? Right now, I'm actually in Arizona. You can pick one of your shows in Washington, still. Yeah, I did back then. Oh, yeah, when you were up there and you travel them did that when I was doing my shows and in Spokane, but now been doing shows in Arizona and I went over to Florida for Nationals and then who knows where I will be

next. I think that right now I'm changing gears two more just like a business aspect of just getting two more shows, I think. Next time, I compete. Like I said, it's not about the pro cards much as I want to go meet more people. I want to, you know, show people and talk more about like my strategy of how to get here and all that kind of stuff. Just because I want to try and just just grow. And from a business standpoint. I guess you'd say, well, instead of just the athlete perspective.

No, man, we can shoot, we can talk with him. Holding the podcast on business, but we gotta be going to compete next year, man. We got it. We got to step on stage the same time, some time, you know. Oh, man, I gotta push. What are you gonna do? You feel like I probably will start prepping in November of this year and then plan on like competing starting in like,

april/may timeframe. That's typically what I wanted up doing, but I did a, my last prep start in November of 2019 and I had like seven shows lined up had a super busy for in 2005 season, but right, like literally a week and a half before my first show, covid, hidden all the show. Oh, no, so I did. That prep work for nothing. Well enough. Oh, that's so roughly. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm cool. Well, he's gonna die out document a little bit of open

showcase for the people. So, again, like so official photography done. That was that, that was good. I mean, I'll be able to use that, you know, on the website and everything but be, I'm definitely itching to get back in the back in the prep, you know phase. Yeah. I know. I'm excited that to see to give you. You made a lot of progress in this, seeing their condition. Before and you hold it just baffles me. How much muscle tissue you hold as a natural athlete.

I'm just gonna be honest, like, it's just crazy to me. So you look, you're you're very competitive position going up. And what? So, what Pro status you have, you have those, he be and you got, what else have you accomplished? Because, I know, I know compete in the the that you and bf, I guess their amateur division. Okay. I + BF. I in international body building for yeah NBF, but The pro show that I won, was that? That's the one that your client was in an in Spokane. That was WGBH.

Oh TV. Oh, that's all right. Yeah, I think that's untested. Yeah, that was untested that one that one, but I definitely want to just focus on the natural shows, but I would like to get the debu and bf Pro card and yeah, and I want to compete. Like I've competed in BC before I don't mind compete in MPC and I kind of for whatever reason. Like a lot of people like I'm trying to do everything is totally different with a ketogenic.

Perspective. And a lot of people give me Flack for saying, you know, I wouldn't be competitive not having carbs so I can only show them. I can tell them all day long, but I really seem to show them. So I kind of wanted I kind of want to beat all their asses and do so on an untested show. So beat the people that are using gear and taken in carbs and me beat him with natural without carbohydrates. Like that's what I want to do. Yeah, I know. I think you have every

opportunity to do that, too. There's no doubt. My, I don't know how your shows are around there. But just from what I saw you and I was freaking three, four, whatever it was. It was evidence in least three years ago. Yeah, 17. That's a long time. So there's no doubt in my mind. You could do that. I mean, how I know Cliffs even got vegans. He's better going and doing Nationals and stuff like that and then PC. And I really think that pretty broad spectrum.

It's a because he's naturally like, he, Pete's. He didn't recently but he's still totally natural, right? Yeah. Yeah. Some, he coaches all kinds. So he's pretty impressive in his own right for sure. Yeah, and I think that with is your foundation and it's like you're yeah, I definitely can. You go to NBC shows in this clean house? Sure. That want to see you. I don't know. What is it. I am BF show or I qualifier to fear wbf. Yeah, the one in the neck. Springer talked about.

Yeah, so the show and normally doing Washington. It's the Washington's state Pro-Am Puget. Sound Pro. Am I and B FW + BF Pro Qualifier. It's in Marysville Washington. And that's, that's the one that I've I got second in it. One year, I got second in it. I won one year and then get second of the overall. That was when I was that was before I was key. That was back in 2014, I think.

Ink. And then in 2017 I got second in it. So I've kind of just you know, got it. You got a chip on my shoulder to take the overall title on that show at some point. Yeah, of course, so that'll be good. That'll be good. Well, maybe you'll rope me into it. I will see cuz I might be becoming a married man around that time and I don't think prep and get Mary's good, good combo. Probably at the same time, but We'll see. Okay, that's awesome.

Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, but I know that well, we'll see cuz I know that instead of going over to Florida next time. I don't know what was crossing my mind at a time, but they switched USA's least last year. They did. I don't know how it will switch it back, but it was in Vegas, but now it's in Scottsdale, which is where I live makes it easy. So, yeah, make it a little easier. I don't know why, but that's usually in July, but I know

that. That the qualifiers are probably around the same time, you're talking about April and May or whatever up in Spokane. The usual timeline, you know, I do hate how with a lot of match for shows. Like the a lot of pro qualifying shows are early in the year. And then you get you know, like world's is the W + BF, big one and that's like in November. So it's like you gotta have that massive spanning between show that I'm not a fan of.

Yeah, you think they're more like because you know, they got like USA's and Junior USA's and National Junior Nationals and like a couple other ones that are National shows to go pro but I think in a lot of natural shows, correct me if I'm wrong, all of those are pro qualifiers rather than like having to do a national show to become Pro, correct.

Yeah. There's a, there's a lot more Pro qualifying shows for sure and they're not all pro qualifying shows, but it's not like you have to do like Nationals like the the NPC Nationals. There's not like an equivalent of that in the natural federation's that I'm aware of. Yeah, that's yeah. Yeah, so, but they go the pro row and, like your sophomore, the circuit, then. Yeah, you have to wait till the end of the year. So it does make it tough.

You kind of have to. It's kind of making them chose, like people want to do more heavy on the back end of the year just because of that reason, you know, and then I don't know Generations like they can few earn your pro card

status. You have to compete in a pro show within a year to maintain your pro card status, which I also I mean that's that's not good either because like You're if you if you win your last show of the season to get your pro card and you don't plan on competing again that year. Then you've got a literally not have hardly any offseason or as you say non non. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do it again which and that's not really conducive to much muscle growth, you know?

Yeah, that's exactly what I would say is, you know to know like Becomes of the genetic kind of portion of it. Where? Yeah, you turn pro and then you can go do well at a pro show and then go on. From there. It's like I yeah, usually I have a lot longer of a downtime between shows for my clients if they even if they. Like, for example, I have a client turn pro and OCB last. Yeah.

Actually about a year and a half ago now, and you want to do like a pro show and like now we're going to take a break because it's a totally different world, you know, from the amateur level to the pro level not natural bodybuilding. It's a Different level of competitiveness, for sure. Hands down in my eyes. Yeah, and it's not just, you brought in some glutes parameter, show, maybe turn pro.

That's great. But you best believe that every single person at the pro circuit, at that next Pro show is going to be killed. You know, they're going to be shredded, they're going to bring glutes, are going to be full of mean, they're just, you got to have time for the muscle acquisition part of it, and then bring the conditioning, even better than you did for the amateur show. So, I would agree. It makes it tough. If you that they want you to maintain that status going.

Right from your amateur to a pro. Unless unless you just, you know, you have the genetics to do. Well at that, that next level of competitors, you know, 100% 100% Well shoot man. I've been talking to your wife for over an hour. Now. I know you got stuff to do probably work out no gym right now. Yeah, exactly. I get it in. So no, I really I really sincerely. Appreciate you having me on. I'm really happy. Have to catch up. I love talking about stuff today. And I'm just glad that you're

doing well. Dude. You sound good things go. Well, with the company and the new set up at the warehouse. You have to let me know. Oh, we got it. May be struggling to. I don't know if you knew that. Oh my God, my goodness, dude. Yeah, that is one thing. I don't really know how that's going to shake down with me prepping the same time. The newborn like I don't really know. That's probably not going to be great for reducing stress. Yeah, probably take it in before before.

Baby pops out or whatever, but regardless that's that's awesome. Congrats, dude. That's super, super awesome. Yeah, I appreciate it, man. So yeah, lots changed since we last tongue, but but always good catching up with you, man. You're always killing it. It's always cool to follow along and just see what you're working on. Where people go to find out more about you men and follow along as well.

Oh the plug moment. Yeah. So I guess Instagram Facebook just want to type in what would be Instagram Austin pulse and fitness is kind of my No there. And then on Facebook, my company name is AP performance. You'll see a little logo with a do. It. Kind of looks like a Batman symbol almost honestly, but for my personal assist, Facebook coach that awesome possum, and then if you want to visit my website to its www.a peeper form.com, it's all one word, and I'll have a podcast on there too.

If you want to scroll back to back in, back in our younger. Our days might have still should be linked up there with the feed and you can see our very first podcast we ever did me and key of Sounds here versus now. But yeah, that's where you can you know choir do all that fun stuff. But I love meeting new people especially in your world to I want to learn more and read and connect with more people in that

the key to world. So shoot me a follow on Instagram. That's kind of my main Hub right now, but but yeah man, that's about it. Awesome man. Well, I'm a link out to those sites make Easy for people to find you, for sure. And keep in touch, man. I mean, like I said, I'm always excited to see what you got going on. If there's ever anything I can do for you brother. Just let me know. You get my number. Yeah, of course, dude. No, I appreciate you having me on. So we'll touch base.

Will do another one. Sometime sounds great man. Take care of brother.