What's going on ladies and gents, Robert Sykes, Keto, savage.com. And today we've got special guest Ryan Young on the line. Ryan and I met at my first competition in 2023, the Utah Show. He had a client backstage that he was helping with and I just, you know, connected with him. We were talking quite a bit
backstage. I wanted to get him on the podcast and just pick his brain a little bit further about his competitive journey, how far he's come within the sport of bodybuilding, what his nutrition looks like, what his training looks like, what his first few experiences with bodybuilding consisted of, some of the mistakes he's made, the lessons he's learned along the way. So yeah, just a a cool casual conversation of two bodybuilders, bro in and out on
the the podcast here. So I've got no depth. He will take something from it if bodybuilding is of any interest to you. So that further delay, sit back, relax, enjoy the conversation with Ryan and we are live. Ryan, how are you, man? I'm doing good, man. How's it going? It is going wonderful. Well, wonderful well. So to get listeners a little context, you and I met at what, what show was that? That was the first show that. I Utah shows your first show. Yeah, the Utah show.
And that was, that was a different that was what was the Federation OCB? The OCB, yeah. That was the. Only classic Physique. That's right, the classic physique. I went in to do bodybuilding and then I had to do classic last minute because there was no bodybuilders except me. So I didn't want to compete by myself, so I switched over to classic last minute You. Want to know a funny thing about that is. What's that? They actually switched their standards to the point where you
have to hide your glutes. You have so you're on the right path with the with that look. Huh. Interesting. Yeah, They they. 'Cause you know that you had the longer shorts and that. Yeah, yeah, I had. And that's what they're kind of going for, is that kind of like covered up look, because a lot of people are pulling the classic shorts up really short, showing glutes, and they're trying to go away from that, apparently. It's so weird, man.
Like all these different federations had their own little spin on things and some of I could totally get behind some of them. It's like, I don't really think that's necessary. I do like the classic physique
division as a division. A lot of the federations in that, like the WNBF Natural Federation for instance, they don't even have a classic division because in their mind it's like, look, if you're a natural competitor, you're going to have that classic look anyways within the bodybuilding. Bodybuilding is bodybuilding. Yeah, which I can totally get behind that messaging too. Yeah, but it isn't. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, man. The the OCB is a little, a little different, man.
I don't know. Some things I didn't I don't like is how they don't compare the top two people next to each other. Yeah, yeah. Thought that was a little weird. That are you typically doing the OCB shows or what is your primary federation? So that was my first bodybuilding show ever. I did a Men's Physique show back in 2017 with the MPCI, did three shows that year, 16, 2016, 2017. I did three shows and it was a
good experience. But you know, it's totally different than like actually bodybuilding where you have to hit, you know, more than just the front and back those and I was just kind of nervous to get out there and have to show my legs. So I felt like the OCB Classic, only BM5 mandatory poses compared to the 10 in bodybuilding was a easier route. I don't know it was not easier, but it was wasn't as big of a jump to go right in the
bodybuilding. And I did the Denver show, the Denver OCB Classic show, and they told me I should have done bodybuilding, but well, you, I don't know. I don't think my, I don't think my conditioning was that good. You definitely had the classic look, especially when you're rocking that mustache. Yeah, I don't know that the mustache had to go. And yeah, I don't know, Just because you have a mustache doesn't mean you're classic. But I agree with some of the critique they gave me.
They, you know, they said they, oh, you just look like a bodybuilder. The way you're flexing your quad, kind of weird feedback, but like, I do hit poses straight on compared to like, you know some people in classical like, you know, twist the hip and you know like the front double bicep. The guy who won compared to me, he definitely had some like twist and flare to his double bicep compared to me who was just hitting it straight on.
But they told me I was true conditioned and I just thought that was really shitty feedback and anyone that looks at my legs could could have told you that like I still had more bad. I mean it's just I wasn't it wasn't that, you know I thought I was pretty. I thought I fit the standards pretty good because they said they looking for like a softer legs. But when I saw you, man, you did you. You should have definitely.
I feel like you definitely should have won because just you know, it was the beginning of your prep. You weren't as shredded and it was a really good look that you did, that you brought to Utah, man. Like I said at the time, it was probably the best natural bodybuilder I've ever seen in person, you know? I appreciate that, man. It means a lot.
It was it was kind of strange because like you know, I was, I was going in for bodybuilding and I was trying to get as conditioned as possible and there was no competitors there. So I competed in Classic, so I'd have competitors to be against.
And the feedback was pretty much that I was too big and too conditioned for Classic. I mean one I I went and talked to all the judges afterwards and one of the judges said, look, if you had just gone up there and simply not flexed like hit the poses but didn't actually flex anything, you probably would have won because. So weird. Yeah, I bet that was kind of. Strange. So weird to say because like, have you seen the OCB pros
though? I have not looked at them much, no. Brother, they're big. Yeah, it's. Huge. The bodybuilders, man. Like. Yeah, and some of the natural. Guys are crazy goods. Like they're huge. And like, I would still have to get bigger and leaner to even compete against those people. And for a smaller show, say that you know you were too big and lean for the division. It's like, but if you put me up against pros, I'm just an average joke. Kinda, you know, like, I don't know.
And there's just that that just didn't. And not not being able to stand next to one and two, like not standing next to each other was just so odd to me that you wouldn't do that. Because the way the way a bodybuilding show is set up is that they come in early and they set the lights up and they point it in the center of the stage. And that's where the best lighting's going to be.
And to not take the top two people and put them next to each other in the middle of the stage where the best lighting is to compare them is just so odd. And then to double down on the notion that you don't do it. And to say we do it so the judges can have more freedom. They see some. They give some bullshit explanation of like more freedom of thought. Like for the judges where just because you're in the center doesn't mean you're winning. But like, I mean, it's a competition.
And like, aren't we all fighting to get into the center? Yeah, yeah, it's it's kind of weird, man. Like I I mean, I like each federation for its own reasons, but the. More I like. I can. I can get beyond all natural organizations. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think any, any, any press, any media, any forward momentum within the Natural Federations I'm all for like I think promoting that is paramount importance.
Now having done multiple different shows from multiple different federations, both NPC and natural, I definitely resonate the most with the WNBF Federation. I mean I feel like they've just, they've got it dialed in. There are certainly WNBF shows with promoters that aren't as crisp as I would like things to be, but as a federation in its totality, I feel like that's been a pretty solid federation
for sure. Yeah. So like when I actually first got into the fitness back in 2015 when I looked into natural shows, there was a, there was an IMBF show out in Colorado at the time, but that was the Latin little died and that was the little. I think 2016 was the last year they did it. And now there's no shows. And OCBS came out strong with a few shows. And I think just having the classic, having that option for the classic and and not being there in other organizations has made it more And.
And I think the fact that, you know, there's only 5 mandatory poses, you're not, you know, having to show, you know, your glute, you have to be shredded to your glutes. Because at the end of the day, you know, the classic division is totally subjective. I mean like you said you think
you resonate more. The WMP like their their criteria is way like they don't do classic because the the criteria they want you lean shredded and you know they compare you you know and how much muscle you have and you know and like your ability to hit the poses and stay conditioned. And while classic physique is basically who can contour the fat the best around, the muscles still look aesthetic. Yeah, the aestheticism is key.
I think with everything they're like I've seen a lot of bodybuilders just get so blocky, more so in the non tested region for sure. But yeah, I've always wanted just to have that that aesthetic look and if you're natural, you're not gonna have these overblown proportions. So it's it's much easier to achieve that without overdoing it. From a natural standpoint, obviously it's much healthier, which is what I'm an advocate
for. And again, I don't ever want to throw shade to people that are not natural. But I've certainly taken that route and I just can get behind that messaging more because at the end of the day, I want this to be a healthy sport that leads to longevity as opposed to a shorter lifespan. Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I I always say, you know, it's all about why, why you got into it. You know, there's, I mean, there are some people that get into it and, you know, that's all they have in life and they just want to be as big and as possible. And, you know, by all means, but, you know, the reason why I got into it was, you know, to be healthier. So I can't imagine, you know, having to do things to the point where like you're worrying about your health. You have to go and get your blood.
Like, I mean, I I, I never go get my blood checked. And the reason is that because I live, I lived a healthy lifestyle. You know, eating healthy, going to the gym every day, not every day, but you know, staying active. And I, you know, couple years ago, I did go get my blood checked and everything was like directly in the middle. And you know, that's the beauty of natural bodybuilding because you know, you know, granted it's not, you know, it's not healthy to get shredded.
You know, it's never going to be a healthy situation if you're natural or not, but. Yeah, when you're sub 5% body fat, things start shutting down. Oh yeah, Oh yeah, yeah, I'm sure you know that. What? So what is? What is too shredded in your opinion, 'cause I seen you man, and you're like calipers and everything out like 2-3 percent for like weeks. Yeah, I was definitely way down low in a body fat for an extended period of time, 'cause that first show in Utah, that
was when was. That you were so lean. That that was the. You were lean in that show. Yeah, I was pretty lean then. I think I competed then at like 1:59 and then I got down to I think my lowest was 151.2 I believe, but my lowest stage weight I think was like 153 or 154 in in November. So and and that Utah show that was when was it, that was the beginning of September, is that right? September, I think. So yeah, that's a pretty long time to be that lean.
That's certainly not optimal. It's just kind of how things worked out on my end. I mean, I was prepping for 33 weeks when it was all said and done. So that was a long prep for sure. But as a natural athlete, man, like when you get down below, when you get down below 10%, that's where you're not really optimizing for muscle building in my opinion.
Like when you're leaner than, you know, 10%, when you're in the single digits, then when you start getting below 5%, that's certainly where things start to, you know, become detrimental from like a hormonal standpoint, metabolic standpoint, like you don't want to sustain that for any significant length of time.
Yeah, yeah and yeah man, you You by far were one of the most shredded bodybuilders I've ever seen and think that like you're even 7 lbs lighter at Worlds. It's just like wow, do you think you would have brought a better if you would have came in at the 1A higher one 50s it would have been a better package I. Don't know man. It it kind of goes all back to the subjective nature of the sport. Like I was definitely on the lower end of my weight class at Worlds. I I feel like I was certainly,
you know, on par with the. Leaners. You're close to almost ban them. Ban them if they were to do that. Yeah, yeah, I would have, definitely. I was. I was skirting on that edge, for sure. Yeah, you would have definitely been fighting in the top if you were in the Bantam, though. Yeah, If I was in the Bantam way, it'd have been all over. But they. Didn't even have been a big Bantam boy.
I would have been a big Bantam, but I mean, for me, it's like I wanted to just become the leanest I'd ever been, like no questions asked. I wanted to be the leanest guy on stage, full stop. No doubt about it. Like, I knew that I wasn't going to be the biggest, and I'm never the biggest, but I wanted to bring that conditioning and I feel like I certainly did that now. In doing that, I certainly sacrificed some fullness because
you just simply can't have both. And there's going to be people that be like, yeah, but if you had carbs, you'd fill out more. No, no, I mean, if you're if you're that lean, you're going to sacrifice some fullness. That's just simply how it works. But I feel like I was able to check the box for me, which was just to become the leanest I possibly could. I mean, I was trying to become the leanest man in the on planet
Earth at that point in time. And I think I certainly was for that point in time, but now that I'm eating more, I've got my reverse diet in check now. I feel like I I like the way I feel and perform much better at at this weight and and caloric intake for sure. Yeah. So do you eat like any fruits at all or? No man, I haven't had a fruit. I can't tell the last I've had a
fruit I haven't had like a carb. I have trace carbs in the foods I eat, but I haven't had like an actual carbohydrate based meal, in which case the majority of the calories on a meal come from carbs in over 8 years now. Yeah, no, I I look at the things you post and you know the way you, you know, just like significantly up the fat and the proteins. And you know, I always say, you know the best diet is always going to be the one that works for you and it's obviously
working very well for you. You know, it's definitely, you know, the one that works. So like to say I go, if you had carbs, would you look better? I mean, it's so hard to say because, you know, this is the what works for you and this is what is what was, how was your physique before you started the keto diet? Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's improved significantly. Oh, for sure. I mean, I used to compete with carbs. Like, I I I've been bodybuilding
now for 15 years. My first show was in 2012. That was all with a, you know, bro diet, clean eating approach. My first. Have you always done bodybuilding? Yeah, yeah, I always did bodybuilding. I have done classic too, but I've always done. I've never done a physique show, but I've I've always about half the time I've been bodybuilding has been, you know, Keto now I've been bodybuilding 15 years, been keto now for for over 8. So just over half of it's been
keto. But when I competed, you know, with carbs, it's not like I was filling out more. I had a a softer look. I never got as lean as I did now. I'd lost more strength in the prep than I have now with Keto, so I I can confidently say that I look, feel and perform much better with a ketogenic approach than what I was doing with carbs prior to. Yeah, no, I I think the biggest thing that in a lot of people's diet is they just a lot of people just typically don't
yield enough protein. And you know with the keto diet, with the, you know everything revolving around and the guy you know, I'm all for you know your protein coming from animal meat, you know, and I I, you know, I if you're going to get your fats, I'm off where the fats come in from animal meat. And I would just find myself hungry all the time. I feel like anytime. It's weird, man. Like, once you become fat adapted, your body is able to
tap into your own stored fat. And any dietary fat that you consume and the energy that you get from that is much more of a sustained energy than what you would get from, you know, bolus of carbohydrates or sugar or something like that, because it just burns more slowly. So a lot of people assume they wouldn't get full. But once you switch over, you're eating much less food volume, but you actually have a much more satisfying sense of, you know, true satiety.
Like, there were times when I was eating carbs and I would have these massive amounts of like, vegetation, huge salads, just a bunch of volume, but it and I would feel bloated, Like I felt full from like a volume standpoint. But it wasn't ever like a deep, satisfying fullness, and I think you got to have the fat and protein for that. Yeah, no, I agree 100%. Yeah, no, I agree.
I, you know, just talking to you and everything makes me realize how much bullshit carbs I eat in my day-to-day basis and how it really doesn't satisfy me. And if I were just to have more, you know, meals with, you know, more meat and everything like that, I would be fuller overall. Totally man. And and just for the listener's sake, when I met you at that show, you didn't compete at that show with me, but you had a client that was competing at that show, correct?
Well, not a client. You know, I actually competed against him in the Denver show and but we were, we were friends before that and he just wanted some help going into the Utah show. So I mean client would indicate I'm getting paid, right? Yeah. Or or just maybe it's a pro bono client. Just somebody. You're helping. Yeah. You know I'm just a Jim bro. Helping a Jim bro. I can't say that. You know, I'm you know, I I know all the bells and whistles and
I'm a wizard or anything. But yeah, he just needed somewhat they they gave him some similar feedback in Denver. They said that he was too shredded and he should have done bodybuilding, which is insane because this kid is very classic. The way he poses is classic and he looks great. Yeah, he was conditioned, you know, for the Denver show. He was really conditioned for
the Utah show. He came in about 10 lbs heavier and it was it was a softer look but it was essentially what we were going for like a have your look. But you know the Utah show was competitive and you know he just, I think that, you know maybe he should have got into that, you know top five, but you know didn't fall that way. But he he had not but too many. Shows prior to that, right? That was one of his first shows. No, he did a show.
He he did a classic show like the year before and then he did one like 2 weeks before that show. So this was his like third or fourth show. He he's done a few. He actually trains out of arm brush which is like a big bodybuilding gym. Yeah. And yeah. And and he attends like the posing classes out there. I mean I, you know he's he's taught me some things posing that's Phil. He's what's that in that, Phil? Heath's gym. Oh yeah. Well, not anymore. He moved to Florida now.
No, I didn't know. Yeah, everybody did. Brett Wilkin, the other IFBB pro that trained out of there. But yeah, he but you know he's been doing it for a while and he just needs some help. So you know, I I came along with him and was it is you know it was fun to be there and be backstage and you know not have to worry about all the things that you have to worry about as a competitor, you know.
Yeah, because you know, majority of us when we're at shows, we're probably, you know, competing and super stressful being backstage and everything. But just being able to be backstage and kind of, you know, just, you know, be on the opposite side of thing, not being stressed out or anything. And you know, and I think he enjoyed the experience, You know, obviously they, you know, not being in the top five. He was pretty disappointed about that.
But he's super young. He has, you know, he's like 21 baby like you know, just, you know, I wish I looked that good at 21. I I didn't even get started until I was like 2425. I know, man. I keep seeing these younger guys and it's like, I feel like I'm pretty young into sports, too. Like I look at a lot of the people that are, you know, killing it on the high level and
they're in their 40s. So I'm like, OK, I've got a decade ahead of me still, but I see some of these guys that just look phenomenal at like 21/22/23 and I'm. Like how old are you again? I'm 32. OK, me too. Me too. Yeah, so it is kind of crazy, man. Like, I don't know what they got, what these guys are eating, but they got some good genetics. Benjamin Schuster. Yeah, they're looking great. What, what got you into the
sport in the 1st place, man? Like if you started, you know a little bit later what what was your, what was your canvas for getting into the bodybuilding to begin with. So so I I'm I'm I've always been in the weightlifting. I, I, I when in high school, I I wrestled and our team was super competitive and wrestling was kind of life back in high school and everything and then end up moving out to Denver when I was 24 and I was working as a nursing assistant and just not
living a healthy lifestyle. It's probably like 145 pounds, 20% body fat, you know, nothing impressive. But I would come home from work every day and I'd just be so tired. My back started hurting just like so exhausted all the time. And then I was like, all right, you know, I need to go back to the gym and just started going back to the gym. And I've, you know, I've always trained for a while, but I don't know, I've never really known
anything about diet. And the first person to teach me about macros was a shirtless Matt Ogus. Yeah, yeah. On YouTube talking about it and like so at this point I I was actually in nursing school and I had some trouble in that and failed out. But when I was in nursing school we had a little tiny bit about nutrition where they tried to explain macros and this that and everything and to be honest with you kind of like went over my
head. I was more trying to retain the information being told rather than the actual purpose of it I guess. And yeah, I went right over my head, kinda. And then just weird Couple years later, I like, I I never even watch YouTube really. But somehow stumbled upon Matt Ogas and started breaking down macros to me and everything. I'm like, huh, So then I started going to the grocery store, start looking at nutrition labels, and then I, you know, I was living by myself at this
first time. Like, I was actually living on my own and I started, you know, buying, buying food and like, tracking my macros and everything. And then and with lifting. And then I started seeing, like, really good results. Because my whole life I've been just training my ass off and, like, not eating only protein I got was that good old body fortress from Walmart. Oh man, that stuff will wreck you big time. I used to. I used to drink all that stuff all the time too. We all did.
Then we all body. Fortress. That's all you got to say. Hey, if you know, you know, because nowadays I think they got, they might even got different stuff, but they might even have that same shit, I don't know. Well, that strawberry body fortress shake was horrendous. Like the the strawberry flavor was was no bueno. The funniest thing is my body was so malnourished that like, it loved it, like it, it was
like the only protein. Like I was really like, I don't know, I was a big chicken tender guy too. So like, I ate a bunch of chicken tenders all the time and fucking some protein powder. But anyway, so then, you know, I was in the gym and everybody started asking like, oh, do you compete? Do you compete? Do you compete? Because, you know, Denver, out here in Denver, it's there's a lot of competitions and like
bodybuilding. I'm from the East Coast, like in Delaware, and I went to the gym for probably 10, like 5 to 10 years out there and never heard of anyone ever competing. It's just unheard of, like people just don't compete in body. The East Coast is just not really like, I've known lots of people that are athletes. I mean, wrestling was really big and yeah, I don't know, but like
nobody really bodybuild. But it wasn't until I got out, I was 2425 out here in Denver and like Start learning about macros and everybody's Do you compete, do you compete? And then next thing you know, I found myself. I signed up for an MPC physique competition and I was tracking my calories pretty good. And I would say I wasn't keto, but I was definitely. My carbs were a lot lower and my fats and my protein, and it's probably one of the best looks I
had, honestly. But I at this point, like, I feel like it was because I was like so ignorant to everything. So like the stress levels were so low or I was just having fun getting in shape, kinda. And and I don't know, to be honest with you, I never even looked up like a YouTube video or anything about how these competitions went. Never been to 1:00 and yeah, I don't know, Next thing you know, I was like there, just winging. Out.
Yeah man. And I I got my spray tan, but nobody ever told me to go back to get glossed up. So when I went out the prejudging, I definitely had like an off tan color because I didn't have the gloss, but I was super shredded. But in my posing was just horrible and my stage presence was even worse And I I looked really good and if I knew what I was doing I probably would have easily won my division and competed for the overall.
But I mean my I I remember my individual routine, you know, like from men's physique it's like 8 to 10 seconds front back walk off the stage. I remember I went got into my front pose and like I think I stood there for maybe 2025 seconds started hearing from now turn around, turn around, turned around and just like ran all like it just went so bad every like way possible. But I was like super shredded. So they gave me 5th place because they felt bad for me.
And then and then doing another competition like 6-7 months later and this time I went to some posing classes with team elite physique. He's a He's big in the bikini world. Yeah, I'm unfamiliar. Yeah, and and he and Adam helped me a lot. And then my next show I went and I got second. I lost to the guy who got the overall. He was juiced up, juiced out huge, deformed, dealt super small waist. I don't know if at the time I thought I should have won, but you know, just me being.
But you know, the NBC is way different. They definitely go for size and everything like that. So then another one a couple weeks, a couple months later and each show I was a little bit less conditioned than the one before because I was just thinking I need more size kinda. And then my last show I came and I wouldn't say I my well, I did. This time I did my own tan. I did the pro tan stuff or whatever, which gave me like kind of like a different look.
I don't know, could have been better, but my condition wasn't as good. I feel like I should have got top five, maybe 4th or 5th, but I didn't get that. And that's when I realized that I needed to take some time off to improve. And like during that time I just realized that I just didn't really care for men's physique and like slowly started to, like, despise it and realized that, like, if I was going to step on stage again, it was going to be, you know, classic or bodybuilding.
But you know, to bring, I knew my legs still needed a lot of improvement and you know, just with the posing and stuff like that and I don't know, I got kind of discouraged. But then in 2022, 20/20/22, I was in the gym lifting talk about little kids coming up to us. This kid came up to me. He was like, do you compete? And I told him, you know, like, I had before in men's physique and he was like, oh, can you help me prep for a show?
And this kid was huge. He was like 5-10, like 19 years old, 510, probably about like 215 lbs. And you know, I had some good size when I'm already and I'm like, like, how old are you? He's like 19. He's like just started lifting during COVID, like you're like almost the size of me. And so I was like, yeah, you know, I'll help you. And 2022, I started Youtubing.
Everything about like posing and and everything just to try to help him learn is because his posing was terrible and and he went from 2:15 to 180 and 10 1/2 weeks and he looked incredible and his pose and you know, while you know, teaching him posing, I learned so much myself and that kind of like sparked the fire back at me a little bit. But he actually competed in the OCB show and I think he got cheated pretty bad. But you know, like I said, it's pretty subjective.
It is tough. The Classic category. Yeah, having, having a subjective sport, having judges, everybody looking for something a little bit different, It is, it is challenge. That's why you got to just go in and you know, put your everything out there and be the best that you can be. And if you're bringing the best look that you've ever brought before, then you can feel good about that regardless of what the judges say, because they can't take that from you. Yeah.
But yeah, I don't know. I think, yeah, I think that that that it was, it was real good that, you know that that sparked that fire again to me. But the OCB is just, I think if I'm going to compete again, it's going to be in the I MB S. Yeah. But I'm just, I'm waiting for him to bring a show back to Colorado. So if anyone's listening, they should definitely bring a show back to Colorado. Hey, maybe that's your next column. Maybe you should be the promoter. Well, I know we got Alberto
Nunez out here. He's in Fort Collins. We got freaking the world champ out here. Brian Dacosta in Arvada. I don't know. There's no reason why there shouldn't be a The only thing is natural bodybuilding isn't terribly big out here. Like the Utah show. You know you tried to do bodybuilding and then you would have been the only person at our show. There was only one other guy doing bodybuilding. Yeah, I feel like it's definitely gaining some momentum.
I feel like there's a lot more being put out of around natural bodybuilding, you know, now than there was five years ago. But it's still so much. I mean pales in comparison to what the, you know, traditional non tested federations are doing. I mean there's just nothing as big as like the Arnold or the Olympia or anything like that within the sport of natural bodybuilding.
And if you look at like the the the prize money for you know, the Olympia or Arnold, compare that with the top prize purse for a natural show, it's like, you know, pennies to the dollar. It's like it doesn't even make sense. Have you ever thought about about getting your OCB bodybuilding pro car 'cause they are the ones that pay. Well, see, I don't do, I mean, I don't ever do it for the money anyways. Like, I don't make any. I mean I would not be able to rely on natural bodybuilding,
prize money for my livelihood. And so I just do it for all the other reasons I love this sport. But it would be cool if it was more prominent and there was more money in it because I think that would drive more awareness to it and you get more competitors, you'd have more competitive competitors likely. But I don't think anybody does natural bodybuilding for the money. I mean, there's just, there's just not any money in it, but there's a lot of other benefits from it. Oh, absolutely.
Yeah. No, the money is is, you know, an afterthought for sure. But you know, if you are going to compete in an organization, and if you ask me, I think the OCB bodybuilding is far less competitive than the WNBF. Yeah, the WNBF is no joke, man. Like when I competed at Worlds in November. By by far it's like heads and like it's not even close to like. I mean all right we're we're not going to try to bad talk anyone.
But there's someone who plays at the bodybuilding at the OC Bay and I don't think he was stand chance in the WNBF. Yeah, the WNBF definitely draws a very competitive, you know, class for sure. I mean like every show that I did within the WNBF was just like everybody brought their a game. Like everybody was looking condition. Rewarded. Yeah, And bodybuilding is pretty big about conditioning. You know, In order to know how much muscle you really have, you
got to be skin to the bone. Yep, Yep. That's the name of the game, man. And that's why I like, I'm trying to take so much time off now before I compete again. Like so many people compete too frequently, especially within natural bodybuilding. So they're like when you're natural, like you're not going to be able to recover as quickly as if you're on gear. You're not going to be able to put on as much size, obviously,
as if if you were on gear. And as you become a mature, you know, bodybuilder, like it takes time to put additional lean tissue on your frame. So if you're competing every several months or every year even, you just can't really have that marking difference every time you step on stage. Like I I competed in five shows in 2023, and I'm probably going to take five years off before I compete again.
But when I compete again, I'm going to be bigger, I'm going to be better, I'm going to be leaner, I'm going to be, you know, a better package than I brought previously. And that's always my goal. Yeah I I think Jeff Alberts is a good example of yeah, how it just, you know, it loves everybody always thinks the downfall comes way sooner that like then then it really does. You know if I had a dollar like every person that thinks everybody that thinks that after
30 you need TRRT. It's just like mind blowing. You know it's you, you don't start to think if you're if you're eating right and you're working out and you're staying active, you're not going to start declining until you know 56. You know it's and it's all subjective. At the end of the day, what you do would call it declining. But to see Jeff Alberts get bigger in his late 40s than he was, you know, in his 30s is
just incredible. And you know, it's people, you know, competing just gets addictive, I think. And you know, unless you've been in the game in a while, you know, you think that you're going to make a lot of changes within a few months or a year. But at the end of the day. It takes a lot of time to build lean tissue, muscle, and depending on how shredded you really get, you know it.
There's a lot of people like to go by body weight, but you know, if you really weren't shredded to the bone, you could come back 5 lbs less than you were two years ago and still have more muscle. Totally man. Like this last round of competitions. I competed at one 53154 at my lightest, My very first competition in 2012 I was 153. And it's crazy because I was
pretty freaking lean then too. But I mean, if you compare pictures side by side, like I've got exponentially more muscle on my frame now than I did back in 2012, so you can't really just use the scale as your only proxy there. But The thing is most people, you know, they they don't get that conditioned, so they don't really know what's underneath
that. Adipose issue what's the bottom point kind of you know exactly like what's what's what's the low low of like you know but yeah I I before I this last year when I competed and I think that you know I I I didn't get to the
bottom. You know low low where you need to be where you know your legs are my upper body was good but my and you know bodybuilding is just such a funny sport because you know one person can hold all the all their body fat in their upper body while the other person holds it in the lower and name of the game is getting it all out. But you know you just can't pick where it comes from. You can't pick where you put it on, so you can't pick where it comes out right? That's very true, ma'am.
Very true. So if you were learning all your macros from Matt Ogas back then, I mean, he's big on the flexible diet and you have to fit your macros approach. Is that kind of what you were doing? Yeah. At first I think it was just more like, for me, it's just always been about eating. I've never really ate a lot. I'm not a big eater. So for me, it's just all about, you know, prepping the meals and having, you know, having them there to grab and heat it up.
And I kind of, you know, would start like with just every single day having breakfast prepped. And then as soon as I got that down, you know, then I would move on to the next, like having two meals prepped a day and finally I'm up to about 3 days and three prep meals a day now. But yeah, they even today. I mean, I I feel like if I didn't make an effort to eat, I could easily go all day without eating. Yeah, it's funny, man. I can. I've got an appetite on me right
now, for sure. Like, I've been like I've I I had almost 6000 calories yesterday and I could easily put down more than that. Like my body's metabolism is freaking through the roof right now, so I'm ravenous. But I didn't always. I wasn't always at that. Like I had to really work to get the food in. But that's the thing too. Like a lot of people, they they're on both ends of the spectrum.
And like, you got people that don't eat near enough to grow, and you got people that obviously way too much of the wrong things, so they're not going to grow in the right way either. I mean, just getting the right nutrition in is key. Yeah no yeah it's make it. You know, you can under eat as long as you're getting the right nutrition and sometimes you know, it's still, you know, progress in the gym and build muscle. But yeah, I even has always been the problem for me.
The more meals I've ate, the the more progress I've seen. But for me, it's just so easy to go a couple of days with, just not if I if I don't have them prepped and my weight just goes right back down. So what? What? Does your. What does your? Nutrition look like now. Like are you doing pretty high protein, pretty high fat, pretty high carbs? Like how do you have it broken down currently? So I'm definitely going with
more carbs than usual. There's, you know, I wake up in the morning, I usually have like 3 eggs, four things, the Turkey, bacon and an apple. And then for lunch I have 8 oz 93.7 beef rice and mixed veggies with that. Right now I'm going with more. I just kind of take over my rice up and down. If I'm dieting kind of heavy
then I'll have less rice. If I'm you know trying to gain weight then more rice And I I eat that twice a day and then I usually get like a a shake from the gym after like post workout like a five 600 calories shake. So I'm I'm getting in about you know 2500 to 3500 depending on and then I always eat some bullshit sweets and stuff like that you know I always have ice cream at night time. It's craving. I can't can't tap. See, we got to get you on the
key train, man. Yeah, I, you know, I, you know, I I definitely could have some more more lean meats. Not lean meat, but fatty meats and everything in my diet. I I don't know if I can give up my soft pretzels quite yet. The soft pretzels Got you hooked, huh? Yeah, man, it's I I love me some bread. Yeah, a lot of people have trouble with that for sure. But I don't know, man, I didn't have any trouble cutting the bread. Do you have any, like GI issues
or anything? Like if you had a bunch of rice, is that like messy or gut at all? You know, every now and then like I I have issues, but I think I also work at the hospital, Yeah. And I think a lot of it has to do with sometimes stuff I might at the hospital like. I mean I have patients who have like C diff and stuff like that and just because I'm I'm like going in and gowning up and doing it right doesn't mean that you know everybody is and it gets spread throughout the
hospital and stuff like that. And so I don't know my my guts definitely different. I've had to kind of switch my diet around sometimes. Like for instance when I used to wake up I would have a banana every morning and that would really upset my stomach. But now I have an apple and it doesn't upset my stomach. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. I mean what what do you do at the hospital? What's that? What's your line of work at the hospital?
I'm a nursing assistant. What kind of so are you kind of seeing all all different types of patients or is it like a specific demographic that's coming in? I'm at the VA hospital so I get we get all vets, but I'm on the Med search floor. So it's basically if someone gets admitted from the emergency department, they go up to our floor. If someone like goes to surgery and they need to go stay at the hospital like get monitored,
then they go to our floor. It's kind of like the first stop for a lot of people if they do get admitted. Is it mostly like like what? What are most people suffering from? Like if there was a a general population, what are most people suffering from? I would say probably just some type of heart issue. Yeah, it's it's a lot, a lot of variety, but. Most. Overwhelming, yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a it's, it's starting.
It's been, it's been pretty rough the past couple years, ever since 2020. It's gotten really crazy. Yeah, a lot, a lot of people, a lot more people who are just unable to take care of themselves. Like, All in all, a lot more placement, placement. People who are there who aren't really, like they can't go to the psych psychiatric ward because of like dementia or something like that. Like so like their mind isn't there and like they act out and do crazy things.
But like, you know, it's not like they're able to go to the psychiatric ward because they're not like, I don't know, like there's like certain standards because like if you're if you know what you're doing and everything like that, then you know they can send you psychiatric. But like, if it's from dementia, they're not going to send you there. Yeah. Then there's going to have like a bunch of people walking around, walking around. Not like, yeah, I don't know.
But we have a lot of, like dementia patients and stuff like that who are like placement issues and like family members can't take care of them. We just find a lot of lot of older men who can't take care of themselves and like, the wives don't know what to do. That's extremely common now. So definitely most of the older demographic. It's gotten a lot younger. Really. So like when I first got into it like say eight years ago, 8-9 years ago, the IT was just a bunch of old grandpas, like 8590
year olds. Now it's a lot more privileged 6065 year olds, early 70s. It's definitely gotten younger and younger than what it what it has been. You feel like people are getting healthier and healthier overall, or unhealthier and unhealthy. Oh, absolutely not. You know, it's people, you know, yeah, they're people are not getting healthier and healthier. It's it's, you know, it's not
looking good out there. Just my perspective, you know, it's people are getting younger, like the like the adventures, a lot younger and just not as respectful. They're probably eating too many soft pretzels and ice cream. Joe Biden's America. Everybody's allowed to have ice cream before bedtime. Yeah, they do make some pretty good keto ice cream, though. I'm just going to throw that out there. Yeah, I've tried a few different keto options. So I'm not I I like meat.
So I mean, I've always I've actually bought some keto bricks. Oh yeah, nice man. I didn't know. That I did. I did buy some keto bricks. I I I don't know. Like, are you? You ain't supposed to eat them by themselves, are you? I do. I ate 1:00 every single day. OK. It's kind of cool, 'cause at that show that we were at, there was another competitor there that was eating a brick, and he was doing Keto. Like he did that whole show, show prep with Keto. So he had a brick backstage.
I had a brick backstage. He did, He did. I really love the camaraderie of all the competitors at that show. And there's like a good vibe all around. Like everybody was super friendly. It was a smaller show, but everybody was super friendly. Everybody was helping each other pump up. Like it was just a good vibe through and through. Yeah, yeah. No, I feel like, you know, backstage is usually a really high stress time. So yeah, you know, I can always
can either of you. No one's talking to anyone or or, you know, good camaraderie backstage. Yeah, 100% man, 100%. So what, what's in the pipeline for you? Are you going to be doing another show anytime soon or you can just focus on putting on some more size? I guess your your reverse that's pretty much done at this point, right? Yeah, well, I I'm, I'm, I'm going to keep pushing it. I think I goal is to get up to 185. Right now is the heaviest I've ever been.
What's your weight? Now waking up at 179 in the morning, about my moving average is 179 in the morning. Nice. But yeah, I've, yeah, I've never been up this heavy. But for me, in order for me to to, you know, push more weight in the gym, I need to have more weight on my body. It's just for me, it's, I feel like it's the only way I'm ever going to see like be able to move heavier weight is, you know, I just have to kind of, you know, go on that seafood diet.
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm trying like I'm 175 roughly right now and I think I started the prep at 182. I'm probably going to hang out around this 175 mark for a while, but all my my strength markers are are definitely improving, man. Like I've just been killing it in the gym here lately that I'm eating so much more food and I feel really good. So I'm just kind of hold tight here, focus on building as much mass as possible over the next several years.
But I definitely took it to a point where I got too heavy. My first, you know, building phase. I got up to 2:30 and that was just way too big for me. Yeah, there's definitely a a point of no returns for sure. I would say I probably feel best around 17175. If I wasn't, you know, like making an effort to push food and everything like that, then that probably would be my my weight where I would, you know be over in the best.
But yeah, no, I've, you know, there's there's a lot of exercises I've never incorporated into my well. So I I I've always referralled everything. I never really tracked much or anything. Never tracked my workouts or anything up until last October. I ended up getting the coach. Yeah.
So I hired Malcolm Cooper. He's a string school coaching out of Texas. But yeah, so he's, he's, he's had me start doing some, you know, more movements to work on my ass to get my glutes up my hamstrings in those areas. I never really trained consistently for a long time. So been, you know, really working on the RDLS. I'm actually going to copy some of them single leg squats you were doing the other day. Oh yeah. Those Bulgarian. Split squats, I saw you.
You're holding on to something to to keep your balance. And I'm like, you know what? That's what I need to do. I need to hold on to something because I'm over here trying to do these split squats and I'm struggling more to keep my day in balance than I it is to actually do the exercise. Yeah, no, I like those, man. You get a crazy pump and good burn from those. So I like doing those.
I've been hitting legs crazy hard because I've always had scrawny legs, but I feel like my legs have finally caught up with my upper body. Yeah, yeah, dude. I definitely don't have scrawny legs anymore. Then I get my chest. Built up, that's my weak point. Now is my chest. And speaking like physique competitors like Chris Elkins, man, he's, he's a physique competitor, but he's got a freaking massive chest. Like his chest is his best body. Part and.
Mine is certainly not. Well hey, look at me brother. It's my worst body part. By far too I would say is my chest, especially when I dyed it down. I just my so this past time when I dyed it down, I so the last about six weeks I would say of my prep. I essentially just like stopped lifting, like lifting like heavy. And I don't know.
I would, I would go to the gym and I as soon as I get a pump, I would go and practice posing because I was so worried about my posing that I was, I was doing such a poor job of pushing myself in the gym and keeping the intensity high that I feel like I was a lot like my physique was just a lot more deflated than it could have been.
Just lost a lot of fullness. And yeah, and then I my cardio was super high and I I just think that, you know, it resulted in just a more sucked out version of what what I could have been. Yeah, I try. And keep the cardio as minimal as possible. And I try and lift as heavy as I can throughout the entirety of the prep. I felt That's always worked really well for me 'cause that, that first. Show I was doing, especially to bring them definitions and the
details and the legs. Yeah, yeah, you gotta keep lifting heavy if you can for sure, 'cause as soon as you stop lifting heavy, you're gonna start losing muscle. I mean, lifting heavy and demanding that tissue be there is one of the single best things you can do to preserve that tissue in the context of a deficit. Yeah, Yeah. So I was heavy in the deficit and I was kind of just challenging myself to lose muscle as long as I've lost the fat as well. And, you know, was it a good look?
Yeah, it's good. You know, But like, how far off was it from my best? I feel like it was 50% maybe. I mean, I in like that's not even like, it's just being honest. I could have just done so much better job. So you know, like you're saying how you should always take like you know, four years off and stuff like that, not not four years, but take a lot of time off. While I agree with that 110%, I'm kind of have an itch because I want to get back and get a
little bit of redemption, yeah. But I totally. Get it, man, I don't know. I do. You have a show picked. Down you have something. On the on the calendar. No. And that's kind of the reason why I'm like, I I want to do an I, I MB F show, so I would have to get on a plane and fly somewhere, which isn't too appealing. And like I hired a coach and kind of my biggest thing was kind of like, I like leading up to the show, like I I just want to have someone to like be able to check in.
And with the being online, I don't really know if I can get that. And like I don't know if you would even be able to be at my show with me backstage. You know. So I'm just kind of and you know it's that's the that's the beautiful thing about natural bodybuilding is the older you get, as long as you're working, the more of an advantage you should have. You know it's. You know, you just, you can keep getting better, you know, and stage is always going to be
there. Yeah, totally agree, man. No sense in rushing it. I mean, take take the time, make sure you've got a super solid Hormonal Base Metabolic Base. You're healthy. You can build some more lean tissue. And yeah, your family too. And every, you know, everything around you. You want to be right? You know, Yeah, definitely. If you're going to go into a prep. 100%, man.
Well, I'm excited for you, man. I definitely think you should take, you know, as much time as you can off in between shows. But we'll have to coordinate, because I'd love to step on stage with you. Oh yeah, man, you're you're WMBF pro now. So that's the only way we're going to see if I can if I can get there, you can. I'll be. I'll be my, my my goals would be
accomplished. Well, they changed it, thank goodness, because like before in the WNBF you had to compete every two years in order to maintain pro status, whereas now they just changed it like a couple months ago. But like as long as you stay current on your membership dues, you can keep your pro status, I guess indefinitely. So I can afford to take. That time, did Kendall Richmond lose his status? I don't know. I mean, he he just competed at the Arnold.
He's a freaking beast. Yeah. So I I'm just wondering if they maybe made that rule because of him. Yeah, I don't know, like. I think that's. Been working for a while I. Think people have been wanting that for quite some time because it, I mean if if you're trying to take more time off in between shows as a natural athlete, it doesn't make sense that they mandate you compete every two years to to stay current as a pro. So I'm glad they made that shift, for sure. Yeah, definitely.
I mean well there's another it's not it's not Bada, it's it's another guy he's in the eye of BB, he competes in the eye of BB in the 212. Now who's was a natural world champ can't think of his name but it seems like, you know if you win the world's and if you want to go into like you know stay natty and test your chances in the eye of BB, but you know you're going to have to take some time off.
So if you like, say you win the World Natural Championship, then you take two years off, they try to go at the IFBB that you can't even come back to the natural now because you've been gone for two years. Yeah, yeah. That's how. I mean, you could. That's because they can. Qualify as a pro again. Yeah, yeah, it's but yeah, but not even. I mean hopefully. They they keep making the right decisions at the higher levels there and it just keeps getting better and better for the athletes.
You know that's that's at the end of the day that's what you want. Like it needs to be healthy thing for the athletes. Seems to be a good thing for the athletes and that's that's how you drive, continue to drive more awareness around the sport in and of itself.
Yeah, absolutely. But hopefully one day we can step on stage together, because if I do compete against probably going to be in the IBI MB F and you know, if you can get that elusive WMBF card, that's a huge accomplishment in itself. It is, it is. But you can certainly do it, man. I got full faith and you gotta, you gotta killer physique as it is and you just keep getting that dialed in. Then I got no doubt that you can compete at that level in the WNBF.
I appreciate that. Man 'cause you know, you can always be your own worst critic sometimes, right? Very true. But I mean, shoot, that's that's the beauty of the sport, man. You just it provides an opportunity to keep getting better as time goes on. So long as we're doing that, we're winning. Absolutely. Well, Ryan, always a pleasure, man. I'm glad we connected. It was great meeting you in person at that show. In you, Tom, where where do people go to find out more about
you? And just follow along on the journey, man. Instagram, Ryan. Why? Shit yeah man, not too much that goes on. There's post my toy poodle and my other dogs, and usually just gym updates and use as my personal camera roll. There you go. So I can just kind of go back and look at pics and you know the natty's struggling. Make sure you're making progress 'cause you never know. Keeps you countable, man. I love it. I love it. Well, I'll link out to that. Maybe.
Easy people to find you and definitely keep in touch, man. There's everything I can do for you. Just let me know. If you ever want to dabble into Keto, you let me know. Hey man, if I have any questions I definitely know who to come to. Awesome brother. Well, Ryan, keep killing a man and we'll talk soon, brother. All right, man. Have a great one. You too. Bye, bye. Bye, bye.