Well, hello there, ladies and gents Robert Sykes keto Savage.com. And today I have special guests, Anthony Kunkel on the line, Anthony is an ultramarathon Runner. He is a beast when it comes to Endurance Sports. We talk about is fueling Trinity. Be talked about how he recovers from these long runs and makes it a sustainable Endeavor. We talked about all kinds of things. All things running, we talk about the shoes, he wears we
talk about it all. So if you're interested in Endurance Sports, if you're interested in ultra marathon running, this is your podcast without further do is sit back, relax and enjoy the show. With Anthony. And William Eden. How are you man? Real good. Real good Sunshine again. Like it always is here and little gimpy this week, but everything's good. Yeah, you get a you got an injury that you were telling about, right? Yeah. I'm dealing with some kind of
mystery. I mean, the good news is, I don't get running injuries but then the bad news is when I get injuries I can't just Google them or ask a physical therapist because it's like really odd. The strange stuff. So you know, once you once you don't, you know, once you're Bulletproof on achilles tendonitis or, you know, it band problems or stress fractures or what have you then that you
don't know. I mean, when something goes wrong, it's not you're no longer part of the 99 percenters there and so your, your problems are really odd and so I have some little muscle like probably something that stabilizes my toes or maybe flexes my toes is just like, totally Feels like it's gonna get torn off the bone this week and so I'm I'm getting some cross training in and do a little shake out week and then hopefully I'll be back to the grind next week.
Well I wanted to have deep in his main because I don't know that much about ultra running to be honest. You obviously not know a lot about it. So kind of give us some background man, like what got you into running the first place? I just give me some back story here. Yeah yeah definitely. Yeah you'll have to back me up because I definitely have surrounded myself with Runners at this point in my life I think when I About 15 or so.
I think I decided this is this is something I want to spend as much of my life doing as possible. And so, you know, after well, over a decade of that, I think I've done it, you know, like talking to Runners about running all the time. So bat me up and clarify stuff as we need to because I'll definitely dive into jargon my my four years in exercise science as well. So, I tend to forget that people, we're not all Jim Majors, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you do tend to
self-select, right? You gravitate towards stuff that that you're good at and the catch with with running is that especially as you get into the real long stuff, there's just an endless number of talents. I mean there's there's people that are totally built for it perfectly but just have horrible, fiber type or have high prevalence of injury or you could you could have a really good ability to absorb oxygen and it really poor, you know, really poor metabolism or really
poor control over your day. Or you could just be a soft person, maybe, you know, where you just have a hard time, you know, drawing on drawing on some kind of strength Beyond you. And so there's a lot of talents that get involved in as you go longer and longer and I ran a bit in grade school. Like cross-country, mmm, and then middle school.
I just kind of played around it. A lot of inline skating like playing at skate parks, but also just getting to, and from there and it definitely helped me build a base. And I've always been a pretty No easily, obsessed person. I guess. My my like father's side of the family, all the men and my you know me. See my father And Buddy on his size.
A lot of just like addiction and alcoholism and just, like, really tight a Tendencies. So I think I grew up kind of respecting that part of me, you know, knowing that okay, well you can be a serious athlete and probably get somewhere or you can be a successful businessman and probably get somewhere or, you know, you can, you can be an alcoholic and it's like I feel like that offer was kind of always subtly.
You know, I wasn't able to articulate that as a 16 year old kid, but I think I saw that that was kind of on the table for me. And so, You know, respecting that it was nice to get into something. And so before high school started, I was kind of thinking, West Point, it's kind of thing in the United States Military Academy for the Army growing up. You know, growing up moving a lot, but my parents families independently of my parents. My families are all military.
I mean, loads military, military all over. And so, you know, when my father had a job in my my mother, my father aren't military. But when my dad, Job that involves moving every three years, they're like, well, yeah that's normal. That's what people do.
So I was kind of like military brat schedule anyway even though you know wasn't military and so kind of perpetually the new kid and always always, you know, find something new and need something to identify with and is at some point, I got it in my head that I really didn't like my circumstances.
You know, people that were around me, were just kind of coasting and it was, I don't know whose it was a premature struggle with Nia. Ilysm, probably of just like, you know, nothing matters and what do you do? And people are just wasting their lives and nobody's passionate. Nobody's nobody's all in on anything. And I think the the West Point dream was largely just to separate myself from that.
I figured if I got into something so rough and so selective that I would you know I'd be happy or something. I'd be around people that were all as obsessive and, you know, driven as myself. And yeah, I think I think from there it was like, okay, I need a varsity letter, okay, I can try out for cross country and probably make probably make Varsity right away. And so I did and my program was a joke. It's not that I was good.
I was like a, you know, 16 flat 5K Runner by the end of high school and so that's, that's fine. I mean, it at the time, it felt like it sucks because I was in a really competitive area and I just figured man, I'm not even good. But then, you know, by senior year I realized no The national level that's that's really solid. That's like I, you know, by the time I realized I could run D1, I had already let that dream
died. So, I never really wanted to run D1 and my coaching was so horrible in high school that I figured out and I didn't want to do that and be under another coach and I just didn't trust anybody. And at some point like halfway through high school I started reading a lot like reading everything. And first it was like Roger Bannister who was the first person to get under four minutes in the mile and he was a total academic, he was like, you know, hey I've done all the data.
There's no reason I can't break for in the mile and so, he just went at it. And that was that attitude was everybody said, hey, you know your copy or hey, you're going to die. Or hey, something something's going to go wrong. You can't do that. He's like you know the writing's on the wall I can do that. That's kind of where I am right now with the 50-mile world
record. But so from there it was kind of like okay I can coach myself and then at some point you realize you gravitate towards what you're better at and I was a much better 10K Runner against the same Runners postseason, then I was 5K. And so I kind of just figured as it got longer the durability mattered more and the ability to kind of play with your mind mattered more. And it was less about raw talent and so I kind of gravitated
towards that. And so you know that here we are the longest distance isn't like high school across country that they don't ever exceed like a 5k really, right? Correct. Yeah. So what was your first foray into going beyond that like was it just something like a local event that you signed up for and then found that you Updated and you perform pretty well and underhand. That transition happen.
Yeah, my local Turkey Trot, south of Chicago was a 10K and so I realized like, oh man, this guy beaten by 30 seconds over the 5K last weekend and now I beat him by three minutes over the 10K. It's like what how does that happen? And then I figured I'd do a marathon at 18 and it went horribly wrong. I just I didn't do anything. And so then a few weeks later is that Gingrich is the guy's name and he was he was living one town over. Over for me, and he's a freaking
Legend in his own right. And he was like, yeah, I'm going to this race huff, and it's a 50k, and it was on Trails, which I had never really run and it was in the snow which I'd never run in serious, know like that. And it was a 50k. So it was a it was just a little bit longer than Marathon. You know about 5 miles long with a marathon. And I was like, okay, well the marathon didn't go. Well, so I'll just use after my last long run and I'll go to the 50k and it went equally horrible.
But, you know, six hours later. I finished this 50k. A crippled old but I definitely called it. Okay, well, that wasn't horrible. But next time I know what to prepare for. You know, like I went there and I saw how things went and I learned some stuff and really just kind of caught the bug. And from there just wanted to know. I mean my driving force for the first few years wasn't that you know, I was going to be the best or I was going to like win races
or win national championships. I really just wanted to know what it felt like to run hard for that long, you know, to feel like you were psychologically to feel like you were Racing for four hours. You know, what does that feel like? It's it's one thing to race somebody for 15 minutes or 20 minutes or down the block but to to be out there for hours and hours and hours. I mean, what does that feel like?
And that was really my driving force was just the the sensations and the Ecology of kind of going there, you know? Yeah. Feel like, you know, I've never run an ultra of that. I've ran a marathon just on a whim and it's kind of crazy man. Like running distances. I mean it I feel like Ultras the ultra sport has definitely grown in popularity momentum here lately because back in the day it was like you were in a marathon that's like the upper
echelon. Like that's the elite and now they just keep getting longer and longer and longer and like the mental fortitude in the drive that goes into running, a distance that long. I mean, it's totally it. A mind game. Absolutely. But I don't know, man. It's crazy from like a like a training and a conditioning and fueling standpoint. What are some differences that that you're seeing and
incorporating? You know, with with the tin case that used to run versus the 50 case and be on the run right now? Yeah, I think I think you kind of, you know, thankfully. You figure it out as you go along, right? Things go things, go horribly wrong or maybe they go, right? You know, when you figure out what works too but you kind of it's trial and error. There's not a lot of data and, you know, certainly in 2010,
there's a lot less mentorship. I mean, I would have read any book that was out and there weren't any not really there were, you know, two or three of them. Hmm. And and so there wasn't a lot of guidance, which was good because you've been kind of getting kind of cut your own path and make your own way. And so I had, I had the blessing of I was going through vocational school for personal training and nutritional counseling and I had a to instructors.
Actually, that just said man you endurance, guys are dead. Um, like this this whole high carb thing, like carbs carbs, carbs is the dumbest thing ever. You guys. You guys are idiots. And it's like, all right, what are you talking about? And then looking at fat metabolism and get in diving into all this and and then being that extreme type of person that would be drawn to the sport in
the first place. Was, you know, it's like well if I'm going to go high fat like let's just go keep it Janet, you know, carbs if carbs aren't everything I thought they were them. Let's just get rid of them totally and see what happens and so I had, you know, I started playing with the high fat. Carve stuff in in late, 2010, early, 2011 and instantly like my mood lifted and it was
probably like hormonal. I mean, even even though you're at fragile age anyway, but just just like health and wellness. First, I mean more than anything and realizing that I could go out and do these, you know, 3, H 3 H events, much more smoothly and it was just game changing from there and that opened up the world and the physical maturity of stacking in miles and letting the weekly volume grow.
I mean, like, Senior year of high school and a bunch of weeks at 60 first year out of high school. So this is 2011. Now, for me, I did a bunch of weeks at 80 and that was a good number for me that 2011-2012. Leave it about 80 a week was was a good place for me and like a one-off week here, there at 100 miles so we're talking weekly volume. So total miles running a week and yeah, it was it was from there from there.
It kind of grows. It's like, okay well, you know the guys that tippy-top are doing 100 miles a week or 180 miles a week so I know at some point I got to do that but physically I'm just I'm going to let my body mature and slowly take my time to get into that because you know if your Peak age is 30 or 35, depending on who you are, maybe even 40 for
these real real long races. And that's not even talking about like six days races, where your Pete could be 40 or 50, even when you start talking about you know 3,000 km races or that sort of thing and yeah. So there's just so much into it and so I So I kind of built this linear approach. That said, okay I'm going to build, I'm going to add 20 miles a week, you know every winner every other winner for the next 10 years, and I'm going to see where that leads me.
And so now we're kind of at the point where I've made, you know, just trivial gains after trivial gains each each season and rather the race, sometimes the race goes, well, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you learn a big lesson, sometimes you learn a small lesson. Sometimes you don't learn anything because everything goes right and you win and it's effortless and everything.
Good. But you know, to the outside world it looks like a rockier, you know, a more up and down approach than it has been a mean. It's it feels to me like it's been smooth sailing since I was about 19. So like with the training I feel like a lot of people probably Trends. There's or so that I've been hopping around but oh, I lost it for a second. What was that last thing you said? Yeah. You good. What was that last thing you said? Yeah. Weekly volume and long-term goal.
Catchy, I feel, I feel like a lot of people that aspire to do, you know, Ultra long distance running. They just, they go at it too quickly. They try to push themselves beyond what their muscular maturity would allow, and they wind up just having serious injuries sustained. Because, like, I didn't, I didn't realize the peak, like a lot of these Runners that are performing at the highest level or in their forties. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, especially, like, the next race I'm going to do in Late, July July, 22nd to the Third is there's going to be an elite 6-day race that starts after I get off the track. And that or the day after I get off, and it's like that event will be thrown, it'll be it'll be Bob her. And I think, and Joe fiji's will be throwing it down. And Bob Kearns like 55, I think Joe fiji's is late, forties. I'm pretty sure. And it's like, these guys are not throwing down in a masters division.
Like these guys are the best in the world. Wow, that's crazy. And you think that's because they've just sustained that gradual Improvement year after year after year like they didn't like it. They just gradually scaled it up. It wasn't a night and day. You know, changed. I've almost I'm going to run an ultramarathon I automatically have to start logging 100-plus miles a week. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely it's a certain amount of it is just physical
maturity, right? Like a 45 year old can go on an hour of sleep or 30 minutes of sleep for six days. Much easier than a 20 year old, can, you know? And so yeah, there's a little bit of that going on for sure. I mean that that's probably half of it really is just the physical maturity of being a little older. And you know, you gain more perspective. I mean, some of it is some of it is wisdom like that.
But by a true definition of wisdom is you've seen it enough times like you've hurt enough times and done anyway, and you just, you just don't care anymore. You're like this doesn't even register anymore. And so, yeah, I mean you can you can appreciate At that in your world. It's like when you know when you're doing a set of 10 or 20 squats in your hearts pounding out of your chest, it's like you go to a place where a certain amount of wisdom can save you from even having to consider how
hard it is, you know. Yeah. And I think over it over like a Six-Day event or a 48-hour a 72-hour event, you know, some of these events it's like you'll go 72 hours and you won't stop. I mean, you, you won't, you won't sleep. You won't change shoes. You won't in a perfect world. You won't stop me. You won't stop to pee. You'll just piss yourself. Or whatever whatever and it's like you're going and going and going and you'll walk and eat and you'll excuse me.
Ellen. And so that's that's pretty wild man. It does blow my mind. Like I've been I had Zach bit on the podcast and we were talking about you know some of the records he's broken and it just like the the pace the distance the time. I mean it blows my mind with a human body is capable of from like an ultra running standpoint. Like it just seems inhuman but I mean it really is. Amazing. So like for you, you know, at what point does it start getting hard?
Like at what point is, is, you know, breaching your comfort zone. Well, so I'm much closer to stack in the ultra world. And I am a lot of people that get a lot of attention, at least in America where you know you have like you know people that are doing 200 mile races or 100 mile races in the mountains and it's you know, where course
record is 16 or 17 hours. That's like a totally different sport than People that are doing Six-Day event on the track or the people that are doing, you know, Thousand Mile plus stuff, you know, thousand thousand km distance, kind of stuff like that, where it's sleep, deprivation and just structural stability and other other logistical stuff that ends up mattering more than any kind of oxygen, absorption, or raw measures of Fitness that we would measure in the lab at
least. And so it's like it's like a whole different. There's Sports in the sporting, a 50k on the road, takes me less than three hours on a decent day. Day, you know, that's, that's nothing compared to someone that's going to take 72 hours of sleep, deprivation, and food management and skin management and all that, right? So it's like a totally different different ballgame. So, with that, in mind, what the point where it gets hard is different on each race?
I mean, I've definitely found that You know, I'm just now getting in my late twenties and 28 right now. And that's a good thing. I mean that's that's you know both because I've stacked up more training and because my body's a little more mature just on its own timeline that I will hopefully handle hundred K better than I ever have but what I find is you know 40 miles 45 miles is money. You know about about 5 hours is an awesome day for me.
I can I can really really race for a five hour event once you start trickling into like six hours. It it weighs because it's really really breaking down. But that said, you don't think about quitting in the last hour. You don't think about major problems in the last hour, you're going to make it. I mean, it's going to happen whether you slow down, or speed up or whatever it is, it's not really, it's not that dark, it's more of a physical thing.
It's more like a running a 5k where it's, like, you know, the pains there and it hurts. And it's like, you're just going to have to hold this screening baby for an hour, right? You're just gonna have to be uncomfortable for an hour and that's that's just that I mean, it's gonna happen.
Whereas the earlier section usually somewhere somewhere in there almost 15 maybe 20 miles in to an event where you realize like, oh man or maybe even the marathon Mark as late as the marathon Mark we're like dude I feel like garbage. It's like well yeah dude you just ran a marathon look just because you're running two of them today.
Doesn't mean, doesn't mean that running a marathon especially fast Marathon. You know, step 3 hour marathon is not gonna hurt you, you know just because you got it in your mind that you're going to Run farther doesn't doesn't detract anything from the raw objective reality of it. And so, usually have a point in that, like, 15 to 25 mile range.
Usually a little on the earlier end of that where you just like you're just hoping for an injury or you're just hoping for you know, something to go catastrophically wrong because you You're intimidated, you know, you're intimidated by how much is left and how far you've come already and you feel like you shouldn't hurt as bad as you do. But you're going to I mean, it's going to hurt, it's not going to
feel great all the time. And usually, once I can get over that, you know, I'll take a Vespa. If you're familiar with them, I'll take a Vespa and then, you know, 20 minutes later followed with a with the gel. And then, you know, all the calories are going and ketones are flowing. All the cylinders are open by. I usually like my all 20 22 and then I feel great then it's
like, all right, we've come far. After the body is just automatically doing its thing and much more Flow State like so usually the Crux of it for me mentally, is that earlier part once? Once I can get into it, I'm less worried about it even even when I'm not into it enough where I can start counting down, you know, let's use a 50-miler as an example. You can't really start counting down until at least Mi 35 maybe mile 40 you know where there's
there's a reasonable run. Left you like a 10-mile run it's reasonable Health saying okay we've come 30 Mi now we only have 20 miles left. You don't ever want to think that every yeah. Yeah. I think that's that's why they say like when you're running a marathon, like if that's the total distance, you get to mile marker 20s when like it really starts, wearing on people,
mentally. Yeah, and physically, I mean as you can appreciate you know it. Once you're once your two hours in and your your glycogen is Tapped Out, you can't eat quick enough to replace 100 percent of the calories you're burning. I mean, you can't eat quick enough to replace half of them unless you're running really slowly. Yeah. So that's that's what the fat metabolism comes in. I mean, the the ability to really, really metabolize fat is absolutely King.
And in my book, for the people who aren't you know, Zach and I think Zach, would I be okay? Identifying, this too is like me and Zach. Aren't talented. Like, if anything I had more Talent than Zach does, probably. I mean, raw measurable talent, but, you know, he's smart, he's tough as shit. I mean, act like he's really gritty, I mean, seriously, ready?
And you know, you can, you can overcome a lot of that just by being smarter by being disciplined and really playing with your diet and figuring out what works and what doesn't and getting a certain amount of it's less, about fat metabolism per se, and more about metabolic. If I, you know, if there's a phrase that I gravitate to, if you're eating moderate card, you can't burn fat at all. You know, if you're eating 40%, your calories today, from carbohydrate your ability to
metabolize. Fat is like nil like negligible, right? At least like you know psych cyclical Quito and things like that. Even fasted runs as we found out in some of the studies here are the benefit is very its peanuts compared to really really fat adapting compared to really really get Getting, you know, 60 70 percent of your calories from fat.
And then a lot of the remainder from protein for at least certain periods of time, you know, a couple weeks in the offseason things like that and then depending on your event will determine how much you need. But man, that fat metabolism is absolutely King.
Yeah. See, I don't, I mean, I've never run an ultra obviously, I don't have that perspective, but when I run that Marathon like I didn't have any training for which probably wasn't the wisest thing either, but I did it all fasted and I didn't have any gels or anything. You know, carbohydrates throughout the entire run, nothing like that at all. But I never felt like I hit a wall from a fuel standpoint. I felt totally fine energy-wise, completely fine. I was hurting from like a
conditioning standpoint my feet. We're just not condition for putting those kind of miles, and absolutely. I've got a real bad overpronation man you have any experience with that like are you? You're probably much more structurally sound than me from running standpoint but my overpronation just kills my ankles when I'm running. Yeah, I'm not sure.
I mean, you can either play with running form and I tend to be much more under the hippie end of things of like, you know, there's a reason all your ancestors weren't eaten by lions or whatever, you know, stars because they couldn't catch the deer or the mammoth or whatever. It's like your feet are probably fine, you know, if thankfully I'm not a doctor so I can't, I don't have any skin in this game. I can't lose my, my licensure for, you know, spouting hippie
propaganda here. But man, your body's probably We perfect your body wants to run. Your body is constantly struggling to be robustly, healthy and bulletproof and I
believe that. And so I think we've, you know, pronation wasn't even a word, you know, outside of outside of like this Labs at the Army against not even Fizz laughs at that point outside of anatomy and is until we had a way to correct it. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't part of what Runners talked about until we had shoes that quote, unquote, corrected it. So I would be interested to see You know, balance or get your own balance cushion or CC. Like you have arches. Are your feet flat.
I'm pretty flat footed. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'd be interested to see what we could do over, you know, a two to three month period of building up, some serious foot strength on you because you definitely find that a lot of people can build an ark out of a flat foot, some people can't, but you might even shrink your shoe size because your arch is pulling your bones all back
together. And if you don't at least you can strengthen some of those, some of those lower leg, you know, um, that proprioception and and what category going on down there. So what kind of exercise do you incorporate for targeting the foot specifically? Like that now, man not enough, I think that's why I'm dealing with what I have right now. I really think if I were to spend more time on just it, you know, the like memory foam, kind of balance pillows. Yeah, I'm a big fan of those.
I think just just spending a little bit of time standing on that or doing like a like an R DL to a running stance, if you can even visualize that, you know, To get, you know, go down right hand touches the left foot that you're balancing on and then stand up into into a like a running man and doing do movements like that to develop some glute activation while also building, just a lot of proprioception in that lower leg and in through the hip even, it's really hard to beat that.
It's a very systemic and it lets your body, lets your nervous system takes care, take care of things, and kind of tap into your own, your own body's wisdom.
Instead of trying to stick a bandaid where it hurts, you know, on that subject of Found that like, a lot of Runners are, it's kind of like divided, a lot of Runners are, you know, all for the Fancy Shoes with the correct, you know, correction points like the, you know, the the cushions all that stuff that to get everything balanced and fix where a lot of Runners gravitate towards the minimalist style, shoes and Q. We're just allows your body to do, whatever it would naturally
do. Definitely. That's kind of what you're opting for as well. Yeah, and I'm sure some of that is my own bias, right? Mean, I've kind of self selected for this sport, you know, and my like I said there's a lot of talents in this sport you know in my case, the first talent that I have more than anything else. Is I'm freaking bulletproof. I mean, this this modified week right here, right in want to take off, you know, 120 miles. I wanted to run through this.
This is the third time that I've ever modified training in my life at least in my adult life. Hmm. So it's, you know, I'm, I've missed whatever six weeks of training out of well, over a decade is what we're getting at. And it's like so clearly I'm bulletproof mean. I've known that I've known that I can train with anybody in the world basically because I'm just I'm durable.
My body will always come back for more and then I you know you bring in you bring in a lot of fat application and that brings that to the next level already and then you bring in certain like very intentional carbohydrate in there and that brings it to another level as well. So you know I'm certain that I'm a bit biased just because my personal Ben that I'm just bulletproof.
And so that that probably leads to some of what you're describing of some athletes are all about, you know, the big chunky, ho cos and some athletes are all about the super minimal stuff. I'm sure a certain aspect is that but I don't know. I mean there has to be a truth somewhere in there and I tend to think it's kind of like the metabolic flexibility question of.
I can always take a pair of Hogan has take them out of the box and put them on it miles, 70 100 Miler and if my feet are screwed, those are going to help still. Mmm, I can't do the same with the opposite, you know, if my, if my low back hurts because I've been in Ho cos I can't change out a hose and put on Luna sandals and then just click and then be fine, right? It doesn't work that way.
So it is almost a metabolic flexibility thing of as you get older, as you get more beat up during an event acutely. As you, you know, what have you, you can always add more cushion. You can always add more shoot. You can always add more correction Orthotics on. You can always add those four back. It takes much of to take them away. That's kind of my angle shoes and Footwear, and in really life, I guess, right?
Is strip everything away until until it's absolutely the minimum that you can get by. And then, you know, as you get older and you want to be more comfortable than you, add things. That's a good point. I've been trying to do that with my foot where, I mean, I run pretty much every day just as a not like any hardcore training, just as a way to meditate more anything. But yeah, I'll try an alternate days with like a more cushion shoe versus more of a minimalist shoe that way.
My body doesn't get acclimated to To the easier of the two, you know, man, that's beautiful. That's that's like the first bit of advice that I give people is alternating shoes. Not just like a trail shoe on trails in the Rhode show on roads, but alternate shoes and the more miles, you're running the more shoe you need. I mean, I will do I really like running twice a day. So I will, I will seriously do six different pairs of shoes in 3 days.
So let's talk about shoes because I mean that's pretty much the gear, the Running World. What do you recommend? Like I guess it depends somewhat on the person's you know, Anatomy. But like, what are what's a good all-around, beginner shoe? I like Ultras lineup, still, I think they've gotten a little bit clunkier and appealing to where the markets going, which makes sense, but I don't know if that's a step in the right direction. Necessarily altruistic, good
company. They've, they've lost their Roots, I guess a little bit as well, but, you know, that they're, they're a great place to start. I think, still for most people being a zero drop platform and having having some cushion on them still, that's a really good place to start for a lot of people. But yeah, I mean, There's nothing wrong with going into a running specialty store and seeing what they what they tell you and getting those shoes into the rotation.
But I'm all about taking shoes 1,000 miles to thousand miles, just beat the hell out of them. And, you know, as quick as that shoe changes and losses. Support your body's changing to, you know, over the course of three hundred miles. Your body is adapting way more than that shoes changing. So yeah, having having a lot of different shoes and rotating them in and out and learning. I think learning what gives you
certain pain. Pains and what gives you certain relief and and really specifying that putting putting a label on that or keeping track of your shoes in a running log and seeing hey, you know, I've had, I've had stuff like that where it's man, I had posterior tibial pain for like two years, and I've been really figured out that it's there were two pairs of shoes and every time it was like 48 hours. After I wore them, I would have posterior tib pain.
Now, 48 hours after I might be in any number of 10 or 15 different pairs of shoes. So, if I only log do that and wasn't really looking at it, I wouldn't have known. And then once I figured that out, boom, I took a season out of those shoes and there we were, we were totally square. And then I haven't had pain since and it's like the, the meticulous logging of everything. That's one of those things that that will get me more training.
That will net me more training and then we'll make me a faster runner and long term, and it has nothing to do with anything I can measure in the lab. Right? So that's, that's kind of one of those angles to and yeah, I mean, You start in one spot, you figure out what you like, but
there's nothing wrong with. That's probably the most marketable view that I have is, there's nothing wrong with having ten different pairs of shoes that are drastically different, and then every six months, just take a look at your quiver issues and say, you know? Yeah, I've gotten a little softer. Yeah, I've gotten a little minimal, this block and let's, let's throw in, you know, let's make sure the next two pairs of shoes are the opposite of that and balancing it all out. I like it.
I like it. You ever earned those like five finger super Minimalist Shoes. Absolutely, man, I just beat up a pair of mine that I got. Those not like to give you crazy shin splints or anything. Unless what I have is a shin splint right now, just a crippling Elite version of shin splints. I don't know that I've ever really had that since, like high school that tends to be a tends to be a beginner problem or when you read begin.
So, if I'm going to have Shin pain like that, you know, compartment syndrome, or what we would all categorize, these shrimps, once, all that stuff. It'd be like in the next week after I take this week out of running, it be you know, Monday or heck. I have a good workout next Wednesday. Hopefully, then reading feels good. That's when you end up a little bit more. Step to do that stuff. But because I maintain my volume so much.
You know, like I said, this is the third time ever that I've had to modify training because I just maintain my sick volume all the time. I don't ever have the injuries like that. Got you got you? What about like, icing or using like, Saint or anything like that for injury prevention? You do any of that?
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, contrast contrast is impossible to be, I think they can, I think, while the scientists argue about the benefits of, you know, icing or heat or whatever, or try to The mechanisms behind at the athletes that are using it are going to keep winning. So so what's the protocol look like for you like you finish your run. What what? What happens? So I use Sonic space, there's
the best. I mean, I don't I'd like to have a more precise or articulate word but they're the best mean if they're they're measured to be no EMS and you know electromagnetic frequencies that's the problem is a lot of these infrared saunas. Look you're sitting in a damn microwave. You're just you're just getting baked and not a good way and not thinking, yes. That they measure all their stuff. They measure all their stuff. So that it's grounded and zero
EMF. And then, and then it's very, very carefully measured to be the right, the right spectrum of light. And so I was instantly drawn to them. And at this point, I know, I know Brian, the founder pretty well. We're definitely friends Beyond any professional matter and his story's pretty cool as well. And I've been working with them since I mean, since just about since they've existed, as people know them. Now, at least. And so I I use their Faraday, which is a, it's a total EMF
blocks. It's like, it's like, you're I don't know what to compare to. It's like you're in the bottom of the ocean, right? You're you're grounded and you have the infrared light. That's all very selectively Chosen and the visible light hitting you, and then the whole box that you're in the hole pockets on us, they call it is EMF block. So the whole thing is as a faraday cage so you're not getting, you're not getting electromagnetic frequencies in there and the whole box is
grounded. So you're able to really go in there and kind of Set from the modern world so I use the hell out of that. And then my setup at home is I can clip that for panel that for bulb infrared panel out of that pocket sauna and clip it into an Incline Trainer. I'm on the back of my Incline Trainer, I have one bulb on the front that your quads and your knees, and then have the four bolts in the back, and then have an incline trainer. And then I have a single if you can visualize all this.
I have a single untreated cotton drop cloth over the whole thing, so that I can get, it's about 85 Degrees, maybe 90 Bent. But because it's infrared it's just basically me from the inside out so it's like a cool day in Death Valley there or like a, like a cool day up at really high altitude or hot gate, I out to Vegas because that's where the sun's really strong and that's, that's my big thing is, I am obsessed with the
heat and I had them forever. And I think that's most of the reason why I haven't been injured since I've been training. Even more, is the heat that I use and recently, this block I've settled to a protocol of. I'll sit I didn't pocket sauna or just on my treadmill. I'll just sit in there. And get the get the infrared on my quads, on my knees, and get it on my backside and on my
glutes. And then I'll turn and get my thyroid, my, my heart, my my gut, and my dad's, and there's benefits for all of these things. So get a nice little bacon there and then right as I'm about to start, you know, start using a single drip of sweat, basically, I'll hop out of there and then go get my morning session and I feel amazing and it's been, it's been the most pain free Block that I had truly until this just freak.
Lower leg thing recently. So you do that as a warm up basically and then you go on your run afterwards. Yes. And there's a lot of research on that, like the prophylactic effect, if you're getting all that going, but you can absolutely. You cannot beat near-infrared. I mean, if you're not using it, it's got ridiculous research behind it.
You know, Juve is the big company that pushes all the all the scientific literature but it's not the literature's on their product and their product is just okay, it's fine, but saw no spaces, far superior. And then do you like ice after drones to do the the heat therapy before run and then ice or what typically typically I'd be it'd be sauna for, you know, 10 to 25 minutes beforehand and then I'll go out and get my run,
and then I'll get home. And in the summer, when it's hot, here we have Junction Creek, right behind my house. So maybe 120 feet off. My porch is a creek that's fresh run off. You know, we're talking, we're talking 40 degrees Fahrenheit or so, and fresh. Mountain runoff and the hotter, it is the quicker that runs in the colder, that is. So I'll get my, my legs in there may be may be baptized in there after run and then if I'm freezing, I'll come back in Saint Amour.
And then when I'm sitting around the house I typically have a bulb on me you know at least maybe maybe six hours a week or so certainly certainly more than three hours a week just passive you know if I'm answering emails or something I'll get out there. Photon which is A single of one bulb unit of near-infrared and I'll bake that on whatever my most concerned area is.
So right now, I'm making my lower leg, you know, when we get off of this with this podcast, that's what I'm gonna be doing going to be like, I'll check an e-mail, I'll do some reading and maybe have a meditation and I'll sit there with my my broken part right now, with a ballpoint on it and it's huge. I mean, the the change in turnaround time. I'd love to have a skeptical doctor. Take a look at me or Or something like that. I mean, I've had physical therapist.
Tell me this is good weeks and then sure enough. Four weeks later, I'm 100% or I'm, you know, winning a race. Mmm, what about like like Mobility like stretching and stuff like that? Do do a lot of stretching or anything. I'm pretty mobile person, Sunday know. I tend to be, I tend to walk around way more mobile than I need to be for my Sport. And so if I was a really tight person, I could see incorporating a certain amount of that.
But I don't think there's a there's a Benefit, once you're already mobile, I mean, I did some martial arts growing up and I've just always a teaching gymnastics for quite a few years. And so I've always been naturally kind of mobile Beyond those two and so I don't, yeah, I will stretch something. If it needs to be stretched to know if it really, if it's one thing that's that's tense or tight or, you know, hip flexors I might stretch.
I do a lot of like mashing, you know, the frost ball and I'll use a car buffer and I use a. So. Right, which I don't know if you used one of those. They're pretty sick. Those are These are pretty impressive, super simple, but they, they're effective. Yeah, yeah. I'll use that for like Active Release on just about anything and then I do a little bit of like, Voodoo flossing, and that sort of thing. But no, no stretching, no Diana drills. No, nothing really where I'm targeting.
Range of motion. All right, let's have an attrition man. I'm curious to see what like a typical day of eating is like with you putting this this type of volume into the runs like what are you typically eating from like a macro standpoint but also just like a sheer cliff. Caloric standpoint. Yeah, I mean it's it's hard to know. I tend to have an inverse relationship with calories and training, volume acutely, meaning on the days where I'm doing, you know, 30 or or more
miles across the day. I will have very few calories because you get all the ketones flowing and all the fat cells are open and you know, all your receptors are at the surface and I'm just not hungry and then beyond that. It's like I need to train again later. So I don't want to feel lethargic and stuff. So I tend to have a kind of inverse relationship or my days off for my days were on real low. Just a treadmill session in the morning and maybe shake out in
the evening. Those are my ideas were all this eat and eat and eat and I might have a forty five hundred calorie day. I don't track it very, very meticulously at all anymore. But I've tracked enough in the past and know that that's about the range. And then, you know, I seriously might have a heavy train gets less than 1,000 calories, I mean easily less than 1000 calories.
So the range is huge. But yeah I mean when I'm when I'm what I call monk mode when I'm just repeating the day and every day it's just Groundhog Day.
All right, I will do. I'll wake up, I'll do my morning run and that's on, that's on water, on a leader water and maybe a little bit of salt and then depending on the day I might have pre workout or you know, beats or Something along those lines, just something to help me through the workout and I use a bunch of different things and cycle them to make sure I don't have tolerance to anything.
I'm not a daily coffee drinker, or anything like that, and then I'll get my morning run in and that might be, you know, shake out on the, on the Red Mill or or, you know, an easy 6, Miler or an easy, 10 miler or it might be, it might be a little bit more epic. And then I'll get home. And typically, I'll have I'll have sardines.
It This is a big staple. I mean, it's hard to beat the nutritional value of sardines and just eat them straight out of the can and I eat a lot of eggs and I'll do I'll do my shake. I mean, peep anybody tells me on Instagram is seen my shake at least a few times and it changed a little bit of the seasons go by, but it's got loads in it. I mean, right now, we're dealing with creatine and about 3 grams of cordyceps agreement. If you're familiar with that
one. Yeah, about three pounds of cordyceps a day and then about a gram, a lion's mane a day, and then a gram of or half a gram or more of Thrive 6, which is a, just a six, mushroom blend. And this is all by fresh cap and they're they're an awesome company as well. And so that way Easy like pasta loads or anything. No, no definitely not. I do like my carbs if I'm going to do and I do like them in the evening and like, this this block I've been doing like I'll do.
I'll do like a cup of rice like uncooked rice, like a cup of rice, so like, I don't even know how many that is cooked, you know, quite a bit. But I like to sit somewhere around, 100 to 150 grams of carbohydrate a day. And that's really the only macro that I measure with any consistency or any Precision at all. Hmm, at this point, I've been doing it for long enough. You know like I said I started A high-fat game in 2010 our before 2011 Gap here. And so, yeah, that's it at this
point. I mean, I know, I know when my Staples are like, Mikey for shake and, you know, I have my levels data, which is a constant glucose monitor. I have my constant glucose monitor data if anything, my keeper Shake drops, my blood sugar. So it's, I mean, there's no. I mean, I'm fermenting the milk until dinner. Here. I mean, it's, there's nothing left of this milk. So that's my base for my shakes, and then it's way.
And I might even have grass-fed, butter powder in there from garden the life or, or, you know, just just a huge heaping, a mushrooms in there then. And so, yeah. It's very, very, very low carb throughout the first part of the day. And then, in the evening, I like, you know, I might have, I'm a huge fan of dark chocolate. I've enjoyed some rice, just because it goes well with with meals, and I can lather it in grass fed butter. You can't beat that.
And then yeah, if I'm going to use cards, I tend to go towards towards the sweeter and I mean, a lot for a sweet potato covered in butter but I really don't have any qualms with like a more sugary options. You know, I have no problem if it's a day and I'm like, ringing up food and I had to work out this morning. I have no qualms about, like, grab a Snickers bar, midday or early afternoon and getting in there. As long as I've had, my nutrition burst in my, you know, hit your fat first.
First and then hit your micronutrients you know right behind that. Then I have no problems with you know, I don't I don't think my liver knows the difference, right? Well if your Bargain Hunt plus miles a week, I mean you're probably, you're probably, you know, just continuing to state of somewhat mild ketosis because I mean you're not really holding in any glycogen stored for any length of time that the idea to is. And I think that's why it's settled in the numbers that I
have, right? If the average office worker can be, you know, everybody uses 50 grams and Say, oh, well, you know, you're they get dogmatic about it like, oh well, you're not, you're not Cheeto, because you're doing 200 grams a day or 100 grams a day. And it's like, well, yeah, but I'm also running almost 20 miles a day or not. Might, I might have a day regularly where I'm doing, 30 miles or more and that's I'm not screwing around like, some of
that is some serious intensity. And, you know, you, I think you've seen some of it on Instagram. It's like this, there's a lot of five and a half minute miles going on these days. And that's, that's pretty solid intensity. Especially when you add an altitude or do you know this this whole training block had averaged somewhere around 9,500 feet of gain a week, which is, you know, nothing but Mountain Runner standards.
But as a crap ton by Roadrunner standards, which is the races I'm leaning towards right now or the next race on a track, right? All that adds intensity, you know, if you're running uphill on a gravel road at 8,000 feet, you're burning carbs. I don't care who you are. There's something like you're going to be burning some carbs. So even if I'm only burning, 20% of my calories from carbs or 10% my calories from carbs, Which is impressive if that's the case and that's about what it is.
I mean, I know my data and that's still a lot. You know, if you're doing if you're doing 20 miles a day and Burnin 20 times 20, you know that's that's no joke. So 20 yeah, 20 times 20 divided by 5 and that's 100 grams of car burnt. So to get me into the normal. Ketogenic range of, you know, 40, 40 grams a day, or what have you, 15 grams a day ever effective. Then I might be, I might be doing 150 grams a day for extended periods and that's his ketogenic for me, is 40 is for
someone else. Yeah, it's definitely all relative. I would be curious to see like, I don't know. I've got this theory that if you just totally, you know, bypass the car blow together, your body, just adapts to what you're what you're providing it. So like, I wonder how your body would respond if you just, you know, took them out entirely and then gave your body time to adapt to having zero carbs. Basically, what that would have an impact on with regard to the Ultras I've done it.
Hey, my first, my first few races after going truly, truly ketogenic were legitimately ketogenic races. I mean, I was, I was 20 grams a day or maybe 30 grams a day through nut Butters and stuff of effective card for sincerely ears. I mean more than a two year period 2000. I'm horribly Unbound by. I probably probably 2,000. Yeah, 2012.
Wish. I'd have to pull up the running log to something, but I mean, I was doing I was doing 200 grams of carb a week for four years, I mean for a really really long time and that's with training hundred miles a week, a lot of the time and then doing Ultras but I just found that the the
Strategic card really does. I don't know if it's if it's the insulin or if it's like General Governor where your body says, hey there's plenty of energy so we can we can allocate resources to recover fully or what have you or where exactly this, you know this mechanism lies but it works. I mean the Carbs are Next Level. It's interesting. It's interesting I had L the real real long stuff.
I mean you know you can't I'm lean enough and you can't store enough carbs to get you through like a 50-miler when you're really running hard and it's better that you have those carbs. So have I you know on the genetic level at this point you know not just not just the enzymes and I have had real but on the genetic level gene expression. If you have the base for fat metabolism, you can bomb some serious carbohydrates and all they're going to do is sit in your system until you need them.
So all your, you know, you up hills will be a little smoother. Your brain will be a little sharper your Mi 42-mile. 50 will go a little better and you'll have to eat less during and that's a big one too. Is you could carbs help, you know, at that top end The carp still help and it's the metabolic flexibility that we're looking for. So the, you know, the standard wisdom and also running is 250 to 350 calories. An hour that's a ton.
I mean, I don't want to eat. I want to run if I want to be free I don't have to carry those calories or plan for those calories. Whereas you know guys like guys like me or guys like zakah means that Zach's been eating even less than I have. Been these last few years. It seems and I've been trying to increase it.
He's been trying to decrease it looks like but he's also a Getting with longer stuff, you know, 100 Miler, it makes sense to burn a little bit more fat than you would for a 50-miler. This is 50 miles. You could be a little quicker and a little dirtier for the for a five hour event or, you know, less than five our event. Hopefully. So getting, it's still only like, 80 calories an hour at most, and that's real, real nice. And that's just enough to keep it sharp and topped off and let
your body know. Hey, we're safe, we're good, we're fed and we can hammer. Is interesting, man. I don't I don't know that much about the body from a physiological standpoint with the with a long Endurance Sports, I want to learn more about it because I'm, I've got these theories. I want to test these things out but like it's totally outside my normal wheelhouse. I mean, with bodybuilding, like I've gone versus your car but I haven't noticed any any loss in performance whatsoever.
But I don't know how much that translates over to the, you know, the endurance world. It's just totally different Spectrum. Yeah. I think I think what you'd run into with a lot of endurance athletes is you might not need the carbs for race day, but you will need them for training. So you know, when you, if you're going for like 5K 5K Runners going to have enough glycogen in
there to perform well. And once you found adapts to probably perform to basically a hundred percent of the capacity, may be 100 percent of the capacity, especially when you control for things like wait, I mean if you can if you can drop a few, you know, 23 pounds of water weight, that's huge for a
runner. And especially now track runner short distance Runner. So something like that might come into play, but then some of the training is just so glycolytic that if your body is hex, hey, because your body's conservative, right? Everybody, you sex, hey, we're not going to make it through 10 by a mile at this pace or 10 by a kilometer. At this pace, it's going to start slowing you down when it might not need to just because
it's conservative. So some carbohydrates extra on there is probably, I would think unavoidable for the tippy. Level, but it would be interesting. I think the, the question you run into is how much fat metabolism do you lose for say, you know, to carb up so weak, you know, probably a lot. How much do you lose for one car before week? You know how, how long do those cards stay in your system? So, I mean, that's that's where we're living in the future has some perks, right?
I mean, we have access to like constant glucose monitoring, and we're real close to having a lot of things that are just much more easily accessible and privatized. So yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting point because like, like you said, there's, there's, there's so much give-and-take and like, we
just, I don't know. I like when you look at the research and all the studies done, like nobody's going to really be able to have that access to, you know, these participants that are willing to go through. It legitimately long period of Quito adaptation to really tap into what that research would illustrate. So it's kind of like a catch-22 on all fronts. I felt like I was getting benefit for easily a year.
I mean even like, six months in was Than three months in 100% and 12 months in was better than six months in, and that was kind of eye-opening for me. Yeah, I mean, for me, like, I've been doing this now strictly, you know, strictly keto for five or six years and it's it's so much more significant in obvious, what I'm feeling and experiencing now than what.
I was, you know, six months in one year into year and three year in and like people they just assume that they're, you know, at the Pinnacle at the Zenith of their level of kiddo adaptation. They've only been doing it for two weeks. It's like no, no, no. Yeah, keep going. Hey, if he comes out one time, so I'm good. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Even even on the race day, I mean, I felt I felt like the, the gels that I was taking on race day were hitting me harder
and that's huge. I mean, normally you take a gel and 200 calories, you know, 25 grams of carbohydrate and within five minutes, you feel great. And this is for a standard car burner and within 15 minutes, you're like stable at best. And by Five minutes or so, you're hungry. Then you're actively hung your, your building and building and building that blood sugar, because you're consuming so much that it's actually going up, you know, you're exercising.
So your blood sugar is elevated and then you're eating carbs, your blood sugar is elevated, and then you're you're just like building a building buildings, blood sugar until your brain says dude we don't want we don't want a 130 blood sugar right now though. So it'll hit that insulin out and then you're screwed I mean at that point your you can't burn fat when you got insulin going and then When you're
you're having you think man? I feel like garbage, I must be bonking some more carbs and then you get more insulin and then you're just on a downward spiral until hopefully finish the race or you drop out. Yeah. Yeah. It's I don't know. I can't imagine how anybody that is knowledgeable at all with what all the research that's out there. That's just doing a standard standard you know running like if they're not leveraging the power of tapping into their
stored fat for fuel. It's just it's just they're shooting themselves in the foot. Yeah, well it's not mark. I mean it, so it's a little bit more marketable. Now, because there's at least, like lokar products and and there's something to sell at least now, but that's a harder, right? I mean, even even if someone's eating keto brick a day, right? That's peanuts compared to selling them six meals a day. Right? I mean that's that's like zero still.
So the selling people the ability to burn their own body fat you know your that's why you're seeing so many anxieties Ketone. Supplements is people are really trying to Market that And sell that. But in the end of the day, it's you, it's you and you and you take you to cover your bases in a sustainable, you know? Hopefully, delicious way because we're wired to like food, you shouldn't have to hate life for the rest of, you know, for the
rest of your life. And yeah, I think I think that's what's holding it back because it's just not marketable. It's so much better to sell somebody. You know, if gels are two dollars a piece and you're selling somebody four of them an hour for their events, and then you're telling them, they have to train with them. You're getting that person on the hook. I mean, that's a, that's a lot. Yeah, it's true for sure. That's why it's so cool. Like I don't know.
I really just taken an interest in. That's why I love natural bodybuilding. It's like let's strip away all the new ones. Let's just go to your core and see what you can do. Optimally with nutrition and training alone and then really Pinnacle eyes that and you just feel. So it's liberating because you don't feel like you're, you know, just stuck tethered at the heel to all these different supplements and gels and anabolic steroids, like, don't need all that stuff. Yeah.
I love it. I love it. Well, what you got in the pipeline, man. What's the Horizon guy for you? So we got a, let's see. Some more Bodywork on this this bringing lower leg that's first up man. Yeah we got it. We got a guy in town Durango movement and he is a frickin Witch Doctor, man. If I get you out here to visit for a little train station, will get you the session with him.
The guy, the guy is, I mean I go in there and just like shrug my shoulders at him, he's like Alright lie down and I get out of there and I'm like you don't know how you did it and it's like, I'm so I'm such a skeptic and such an academic. I don't buy all this hippie crap but it's like man. Guy's a freakin Witch Doctor, dude, because so good. So I gotta fix this leg. That's, that's first before I do
anything. I can't even be a person until I fix this thing, but it feels way better today after a session yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. And then we got um, actually I haven't seen my parents in a while. I got them coming into town and then we got a camp coming July 6
of the 12th. I got a bunch of people coming up just to just to train case in at my place and, you know, we got recovery, Boots, the house and we got muscle scrapers and we got, you know, the so So bright and we got we got the creek right in the backyard and the sauna in the house and it's a perfect place to train because I have demanded and I've needed a perfect place to train. So I've created one.
So I really, really enjoy sharing that with people and it's a it's a donation only thing, I mean as of right now it's zero dollars in my pocket for all this. So as of right now it'll cost me money but I'm going to have somewhere around 15 people up here, train, casein and go up. Some people set up tents in the back.
And Well, some cop set up an extra bedroom and the people set up in a family room and just take over my house for a week and just let them enjoy the mountains and the cool, what the cool mornings or you know, cold overnight the nice, the nice high altitude, son and a little train case in here and we're looking again, I'm in Durango Colorado. So I'm Way Way, Southwest Colorado Four Corners. I'm actually like, I'm about to halfway between Denver and Phoenix. Got, you got you got you?
Yeah, that is the perfect place, man. It's awesome. I mean, I can be to Vegas. A short drive, I can be to Denver the, with the reasonable drive, I can get a phoenix, the reasonable dried Salt Lake City, you know, I can be in the desert like true proper desert with canyons and Red Rock and 45 minutes. I can be up in the mountains where there's where it's out. Pine trees can't grow and 20 and I mean, I can run to those places, right? It's this. It's a hell of a playground. Yeah, man.
I mean, it's like the ideal ultramarathon, you know, training ground. That's that's cool. That you bring those people into that, that's like getting the community gather getting the Lambert of effort. That's what it's all about. Absolutely, absolutely. It's just it's so enriching. It'll help me through my training and help them through their some. And yeah, there's a there's a place Chima.
Yo, is the largest largest pilgrimage site have once, and the Western Hemisphere probably, but certainly in North America and they get whatever it is. Tens of thousands of people there every year. And this isn't any significant weekend or anything. I'm going to do at the end of this month, but I'm going to do. I've considered doing the pilgrimage route from my House and it's almost 200 miles.
So it would be a little bit over 200 miles of getting the stops and places where I could sleep every day. But I'm going to do that. At the end of this month, some modification of the route, there's a Scenic byway that goes from Taos. New Mexico to Chima Yoda next coaches, where it is. And it's this old Catholic church and it's like Pueblo style. I mean beautiful, beautiful spot.
And I just kind of think, like, I don't have a hard time putting faith and really anything, which you could probably tell with this. But yeah I think of enough people draw power from a place. Then it gains significance. Right. We're in viewing it with power that rather it had it or not, we're creating something totally. So, I just being that. It's basically my backyard as far as things go. I gotta do that pilgrimage route.
So I'll probably cut it to like 50 to 100 miles, but I'm going to go run across the Southwest for a few days, the end of this month and that's, that's the next cool adventure that will be, you know, people will see media from on on. So, Social and and all that. But that's, there's actually a route, we mapped out. It was like 60 miles and it starts at a big, the biggest Buddhist temple in this area
with a big gampa. And, you know, prayer Flags the whole nine yards and that tends to be a little closer to my, to my, what I can buy into and it'd be fun to started that Buddhist temple and then run to Chimayo. I mean, that would that be some kind of fun spiritual, you know symbolic. I don't know. The world needs that kind of energy right now, I think. Yeah, totally man, you can be documenting all this one like Yeah, yeah.
So I have a media person and she's going to be she's going to be crew and me and make sure I don't make sure I don't starve or turn into a raisin out there. And I don't know if we'll crash in the car or, or set up at any age and I was a lot of public land on this route. We were, I am and maybe we'll couch-surf it. Somebody offers, and we'll see what happens. We'll just let the universe take
care of us, basically. Yeah, we'll make a little short film for it and then we'll be dropping Instagram stuff, and that'll be the end of this month. So, that'll be really, really Pretty very cool man. Well, I'm excited to see that's for sure. Where can people go to follow you and follow along and journeyman Instagrams? The preferred that's that's been what I've been. What? I've been dying my teeth into right now.
So that's at Anthony Kunkel, that's KU n. Ke L when we can we can drop them a link in there as well. Yeah, yeah. Put that link in the show notes. Well sweet man. I'm excited for you. And I definitely want to keep in touch and follow along because it's something that that interest me for sure, even though I'm no Runners. It's cool. Seeing what the human body is capable of and then Coastline you. You know Buster these plateaus? Yeah I think it's the best kind of energy for you.
I mean any Runner I think can benefit from dealing with certainly the like hippy end of the elites of the people who are really when you have somebody and you know the ultra running Community is doing our part, on both ends up here positive and negative but there's a lot of like very harsh energy out there of you know I was a weak little pansy and I crushed myself and now I'm bulletproof and it's like I just don't think that's the right message, you know, I think And I think that's very
harsh, and I think people can can get the same results out of being, gentle, with themselves and this this soft approach. I really think him can move some mountains and so yeah. Yeah. Well I think it's, I think it's good for you to be around to put yourself in around some of these also Runner types because you'll you'll pick up some mental groundwork that would have that would have taken you years to get biennials come out of the gates with it. So I hope that's valued people shoot, yeah.
Well we'll keep spreading apart. A message Man and keep putting those miles in. Yeah, yeah. Maybe we can talk after the 50-miler. Hey, I'm now, let me go run. The goal is the top five all-time. So the goal is to put world record on the table for myself, for the next, for the next year, with this next performance. So we'll see how it goes in Late July, will you get that leg Hilda, man? You like said, you're bulletproof. So keep on keep on ground and you make it happen.
Yeah man. See you brother talk soon?