All About Blood Sugar with Danielle Hamilton

What's going on? Y'all Robert Sykes? Keto Savage.com. And today I've got special guest Danielle Hamilton on the line. She is the blood sugar expert. We dive into all things blood sugar blood, insulin blood ketones. See GM's glucometers, all that good stuff. So definitely, definitely tune in. If you want to get that dialed in and kind of optimize your nutrition around your blood sugar. We also do a deep dive into digestion. She's been learning a ton about

digestion. She's been able to improve her health by a focusing more on improving her digestion. Digestion is incredibly important. You can't. Not really make the most of the food you're consuming. If your body is not even absorbing what you are consuming. So we do a deep dive into that as well. I took a ton from this podcast. I've got no doubt that you will

take something from it as well. So that for their do is sit back, relax and enjoy the conversation with Danielle Hamilton. We are live. Daniel. How are you? Good. I'm great, Robert. How are you? I'm doing wonderfully well myself. So you are the quote unquote, blood sugar experts that right. Yeah, I put that on Instagram. So people can find me but I do know a thing or two about blood

sugar, for sure. I feel like everybody in the the keto low carb carnivore space, at some point or another in their Journey takes an interest in blood sugar Ketone levels. Tracking via, you know, glucometer CGM or a ketone M. But you've taken it to the nth degree. I kind of want to dive into what all you've learned there, but I love to kind of further. Start with what got you into caring about this in the first place?

Yeah, absolutely. So my story is, of course related to my own Journey as many of ours are here in the health space. But you know, I was a pretty sickly kid. Not not overly sick, but had a lot of colds, flu strep throat, ear infections. And of course, that meant tons of antibiotics, I was a kid who was always drawn towards sweets and if it was a processed breakfast carb, it had my name on it. I would, you know, go to a barbecue and eat the bun.

With the ketchup and no burger. And I would eat, you know, just ask for cereal for dinner and you know, needless to say, my health was not that great that we have all those antibiotics, then by my senior year in high school. I got my tonsils out because I had gotten strep throat 6 times that year. And then the next year. I ended up getting a lot of seasonal allergies and Asthma.

And then for, when I went to grad school, I went to Miami Florida and the season for allergies was all year round and I I was allergic to palm trees and I mean it was like a cruel joke and I really, really struggled and I was wondering why I was so sick. I had so much fatigue. I had so many sinus infections. I was like, why are there so many things wrong with me? Why do I need three, you know, prescriptions for allergies to inhalers. I'm, you know, in my early 20s, something felt wrong.

I was a speech therapist at the time in nursing homes, and I was looking at all my patients and they had all these lists of diagnosis, and Is medications and it just felt like something was so off. And no, doctor ever asked me what I was eating. No one ever could tell me why I was the way I was because I would always ask them like, why is this happening to me? And no one to give me a reason,

of course. And so I came across Rob Wolfsburg called the paleo diet solution and it flipped every single thing. I knew on my head. I wanted to be shouting, this information from a rooftop later that, you know, transformed itself into having my own podcast, where it was socially appropriate. Talking about all this stuff, but I was just so excited with

what I was learning. And I realized that everything that I had learned from conventional wisdom and from, you know, commercials and what you hear Through the Grapevine, just in society was all wrong. Everything I had Learned was wrong and just basically do the opposite of what you've been told. Don't fear fat lie into the fat, you know, healthy fats, don't avoid salt, have her unrefined salt, you know, and mostly what changed for me was.

I took the processed foods out of my diet, and replace those with whole real foods and it was like a miracle and everything started improving. I got off. I didn't have to give myself five allergy shots anymore. I didn't have to take medications. I stopped having sinus infections and I was just on top of the world and then later that year. I had some really stressful stuff come up and all of a sudden I started to have all these hormonal symptoms.

So I started to gain weight. I had a lot of fatigue. I lost my good for six months. I had my sister, my cyclical acne turned into very permanent acne. It was all the time. It was just really, really hard to get rid of and it just stayed on my face all the time. And I was like what happened? Because this diet just made me so healthy and then I know that I have stress but like how could

it be so bad for me right now? And I didn't think that going back to what I was doing like the That processed food. That that would be helpful. So I was reading and I found out that I probably had PCOS or polycystic ovarian syndrome. And for those who don't know it, it's basically a hormonal imbalance and you have certain symptoms like missing or irregular periods. You have weight gain and acne and then some women get facial hair and loss of hair growth

from the top of their head. I didn't have those last two symptoms, but I had everything else to the tee. And I looked at the advice out there and it was like, don't have refined sugar. I'm like, cool. I don't don't have gluten, don't have dairy in like, great check, check check. I'm doing all these things. So since I didn't change anything, nothing changed, but of course, I felt like I was doing everything right?

I was just struggling so much and so I went to a mainstream doctor, a gynecologist and I said, listen, I can't lose weight. No matter what I do. I'm working out all the time. I'm eating super healthy. I think I have PCOS. I need help and he And you do have PCOS. You you have to lose weight. You have to take the pill and there's no cure was like what the heck kind of advice is that that's that was terrible, you know, and so I walked out of there.

He made me take the prescription for the pill. I ripped it up when I got in my car and I definitely got a lot more motivation to reverse this thing on my own. And I knew in my heart that there was no way this wasn't reversible. I just I just knew it and so I started to kind of dive into PCOS a little bit more. I went to nutritional therapy school and I was listening to a podcast by dr. Fung and Megan Ramos.

And Megan said PCOS is the diabetes of the ovaries and I almost drove my car off the road because I was so shocked to hear. I'm like, what the heck, does diabetes have to do with anything? And I was thinking back. I'm like, okay, what do I know about diabetes? Something about blood sugar and

something about. Patience because I was working in a nursing home and, you know, Saul out of that and that was all I knew about it. So I had to go back to the books and look at what the heck, my blood sugar was doing impacting, you know, how it was, impacting my health. And that's when I realized that I had had all these symptoms of early, blood sugar dysregulation, and insulin resistance, without knowing it because it's very silent.

So, if I didn't know what happened at the very end of the spectrum of diabetes, How was I going to know these really, really early warning signs that something's a little bit off in your blood sugar. So for me some of the symptoms were that I hated fasting for blood work because I went in there. My blood sugar was 60. No one batted an eye. No one said anything to me, but yet, I felt like I was going to pass out. I was shaky. I was dizzy.

I was lightheaded, it felt awful, really awful in my body. And so I definitely didn't fast. I was someone who had to wake up and eat right away. I would get hypoglycemic after I had had coffee. I'd be shaking, I would sort of pass it off to. Oh I had too much caffeine. But really, it was my blood sugar and I was someone who needed to eat before. I went out to eat because God forbid the, you know, service took too long. The food. I needed to have a granola bar

in my purse. But when I went paleo, it turned into a larabar in my purse. So I was always needing to have food on me. I was intuitively just snacking and grazing and just throwing couple almonds in my mouth or something like that throughout the day because I was, Was using this to self-medicate to keep my blood sugar up. And so I and then of course, I had that, that stubborn weight gain my whole life. I always was holding on to a little bit of extra weight. It was always hard for me to

lose weight. And especially when I became when I was having these issues, when I was on Paleo, but I think really changed was that now that I was embracing fat. I was also having high carb with high fat so it really really turned into a lot of weight gain for me and Just a bad, a bad thing. And a lot of people will say, well, paleo is, you know, a pretty low carb diet and I was like not my paleo and that's not the way I was doing it.

I was having fruit all the time. Bananas blended in my iced coffee with coconut milk and coconut sugar and kombucha and plantain chips and smoothies and also a bowls and sweet potatoes. And like you name it, it had like if it was a starter, if it was a fruit, it had my name on it and I thought it was healthy sugar, but as it turns out, That was way too much for my body.

So I learned all this sort of took out all those paleo dense carbs and replace them with more facts to make my diet into sort of ketogenic macros. I started doing some fasting and I worked on my digestion and lo and behold. My PCOS went away. My acne went away. I lost weight. I never had another issue with acne flares. I mean, it was amazing. So now I became really passionate and helping people.

Cover those hidden signs of blood sugar issues and Insulin resistant issues that are really at the root of so many issues in their health. So yeah, that's my story. No, I love. It's there's a lot to unpack your so just to make sure I'm following along correctly with the timeline. You were as a kid you rate in all the processed carbohydrates and sugars all the breakfast foods. That's when things are getting bad, your allergies, everything else.

And then you said you started doing paleo in your early Twenties that I hear that right? Yeah. That's right. And then with that pain, Leo. And paleo is interesting because I feel like with like paleo is kind of like where keto is now. Like there's all these foods and products that are coming out around the cage, think that and when paleo blew up like that was the case with paleo, and there was just so many super high carb paleo foods that were also high

in fat. So, just kind of like a calorie bomb but not necessarily ideal. If you're trying to optimize for either fat adaptation or burning glucose. So it's kind of like the worst of Both Worlds. So to speak. So you're probably just Consuming energy and carbohydrates and that's when things just got even even worse, right? Yep. That's exactly what happened.

And like I said, all of those different paleo treats that I would eventually that I had it was just way too many calories and wait, you know, I was like, oh, calories don't matter because it's real food and you know, so you want to go the opposite way but I think paleo is a great template but it needs to be customized for your goals. Do you have any siblings? I don't, I have one brother. He's very thin. I'm always super thin. We are totally different in

terms of our body composition. He was, you know, my mom was always feeding him like Twix bars and Reese's like at lunch. He would have peanut butter and fluff sandwiches on potato bread. And I would have, you know, peanut butter and jelly on like 100 calorie thin slice of whole wheat. Something and granola bars. And so she was always trying to fatten him up and deep, make him gain some weight. And I always had to be on like the quote-unquote diet foods, you know, in the Early early 90s

there. So is there any ideas to why y'all would have responded? So differently as a young adolescent with regard to the types of food you're consuming and how your blood sugar and how your body is responding. Overall. That's a really interesting question. I never thought about it and no one's ever asked me, but I think that, I tend to have more of the, I don't like to use like, oh my genetics because I think that's like, kind of a cop-out, but I tend to mimic the My dad's

families disposition. There's a lot of people overweight, several of my cousin's. Have PCOS. They're very overweight. So there, I see a lot of insulin resistance and there's a lot of heart disease in that family. Whereas, my mom's family, they're all super thin and lean, and I think my brother takes after my mom's side more. So I think that's, I don't know if that's accurate, but that's my theory. Gotcha. I gotcha. So, when did you start tracking your Macros?

Are. Are you Tracking your Macros and I'll now are you mostly just focusing solely on what your blood levels are doing. So I started tracking macros at

the beginning. When I first started keto back in February 2018. I did pretty strict keto for about two years, and then started flexing in and out of ketosis because I felt like that's what my hormones were asking me to do. And I feel really good doing that, but I started tracking when I started keto, and only did for a few weeks because I I am not into tracking and weighing, and measuring, that kind of thing. Gives me like, adrenal fatigue and it kind of wears me out.

And then I started doing, yeah, using glucose monitors and kind of seeing what my blood ketones were and seeing what my blood sugar's doing to sort of guide me in with my goals and things like that. Got you got you some more. So once you kind of figured out and get an idea as to how many macros are in a hand full size, portion of Given food that you started, just focusing strictly on what your glucose and Ketone levels were telling you where you using just a glucometer at

that point. And what were you using to test that? So I was using my symptoms, of course, and then also my I have a finger prick meter and then I started to get see GM's later. So maybe in 2020. I started getting see GM's for the first time. So I was Michael and what I tell my clients to do because a lot of them can come from this like obsessive. Tracking sort of background and it sort of sets off some of these eating disorder, type behaviors or overly obsessing

and micromanaging. And what I like to do is sort of get an idea of what the macros are. So knowing, like you said, like, how many, what the macros are of a certain portion of food, and then being able to quote, unquote, eyeball plate. So that you're able to sort of just know what your Macros are more or less. And that's been sort of how I've been doing things. And yeah, and I'll use the, the finger prick meter or CGM to sort of double check. And that's not 100% of the time.

But because you sort of get to know yourself, you're like, okay, this is nothing new. You sort of get a rhythm down and know how certain things are going to impact your blood sugar. And then I might throw on a CGM to sort of experiment with some new things. Or if I'm going to do some adding some carbs, seeing sort of what my tolerances for that, and how my blood sugar and ketones. Respond to that. I know you. Not tracking your calories on a regular basis. It may be an impossible

question. But do you notice they're being a pretty profound impact on your levels? Whether you're in a caloric, Surplus versus a deficit? Like do you ever have periods of time where you're intentionally eating less versus that have intentionally eating more and kind of seeing how that impacts your blood levels. Hmm. I don't necessarily track that. So the only time I feel like I might be in more of a deficit would be times when I'm fasting and so I think that would kind

of throw off any data. It's not, I almost never look at calories and maybe that's to my detriment. Maybe that's something I might want to look at. But I almost never do. Do you do like the extended fasting on a regular basis? No, I used to, when I first went paleo, when I first went Quito, I started He do with a three day water fast. Do not recommend. Especially when you're a hypoglycemic. Like I was so that but I did do a few extended fasts.

I did some 24-hour fasting. A lot of like, 18 to 20 hour fasts in there, but I don't feel like I need it as much anymore. / from having my own business and working so much. My adrenals are a little bit fried. So I find that my body doesn't really Respond super well to fasting anymore and as longer than let's say like a 16 18 hour fast. So I don't do the extended ones

at the moment. I'm trying to work to be able to restore my adrenal function so I could get back to on, occasionally, dipping into those fascists, but, at the moment, not right now. Yeah, I don't do a ton of extended fasting either. I mean, I'll throw in an extended fast on a rare occasion if I'm in a significant caloric Surplus, but I don't ever really do it.

Especially if I'm not. I don't ever fast for an extended period of time when I'm trying to lose body fat, which is I think when most people do it but extended fasting, when I'm tracking my glucose levels and Ketone levels, like I get some crazy numbers. Like I did a five-day fast few years back and I think my glucose dip down to like, 35 or something like that. My ketones are seven or eight which is, I think that's the highest I've ever seen. You need those numbers. Wow.

Yeah, that's super high. When I was doing extended fasting, my blood sugar got down really low. So, in like the 40s and 50s and then my ketones were quite High to around the five Mark. So it was interesting. It was kind of scary to see the blood sugar so low, but I felt so great. And then when I had that high of ketones, I was like, oh wow, this is this, is that it's working how it's supposed to at this point.

Yeah. That's, I mean, I was definitely getting hungry after about, you know, the four-day Mark for sure. But I feel like, you know, most people see a blood glucose level of, you know, 30, 40 50, and they just assume you're about to pass out. But I mean, my mental acuity at that. It was just on fire and I feel like that was just combination of the low blood sugar paired with the hierarchy tones, but it is definitely interesting to see how doing extreme things like that. Impact the numbers.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, you know, for people who do struggle with hypoglycemia those numbers, I mean, even some of my clients being in the 80's 90's. Hundreds feels like they're going to die, feels like they're going to pass out, but when your body is Quito and fat adapted and you can run on those alternative fuel sources, it doesn't matter. What your blood sugar is doing?

So that's kind of the goal with a lot of my clients to get them to be able to run off of these other fuel sources. So that their blood sugar is not such an issue and can start to stabilize in the meantime. Totally, totally. I don't remember when it was, I think it was like, I don't know, probably six months ago. There was all this flak out there towards see GM's in the, not so much, the keto space.

But just in the, you know, I guess the, the Bro Health space, all the Bros were, like, people that you see, GM's that aren't diabetic and wasting their time and money, which I Frustration with because I feel like, see GM's are incredibly insightful. I don't, do you remember that time? It was it was like a big deal for like six months ago. I think I I do not actually, I don't know how I missed it.

But I dunno I guess because I don't like maybe in the the Bro Fitness Community like some of those like calorie people might think that but I'm not necessarily in that world as much. So I didn't catch that, but I think I do think that see GM's and any sort of like, Like when we're tracking, there are going to be pros and cons to it because we can tend to overdo it and sort of maybe fix things

that didn't need fixing. But for the most part, the value that you get from a CGM is so insightful. And so, so helpful. So I have actually, I'm working with my chiropractor. We're sort of bartering services, and so, I gave her CGM and she's, she's sending me all her her grass and stuff. And she's like, oh my goodness. This is the most like crazy amount of information. I can never get. This is so great. So she sends me this graph and she's like, what do you think

about this breakfast? And I'm like, oh, that's kind of spiky, a little high. It's kind of taking a little while for it to come down. Like, here are some tips to help, you know, improve that that glucose outcome. Let's try those tomorrow. So she, she said that she's like, okay, how about this graph? So she sends me to grasp the next day and I'm like, oh, this is perfect. What did you do? She's like I wasn't at work. Oh my god.

Oh, yeah. So, she sends me the difference between the weekend days and then when she's at work, she's getting all these crazy Spike. She's like, I didn't even eat here. I didn't even eat here and it's spiking all day and she's like, oh my goodness. I never knew how much this was impacting. My physiology. Like I knew, I might feel a little stressed, or I knew I might maybe get a little emotional or something like that.

But I had no idea the physiological toll this is taking on my body and it's making her sort of, second. Guess, you know, how she's running her business and her practice because He's like, it's running me into the ground. It's so crazy that I could be so healthy when I'm not at work. So I just think, you know, between those non-food things that we can't, we're not like measuring.

Oh, I'm going to check every 10 minutes for the next, you know, two hours to see what happens after this meeting or, you know, overnight when we can't be checking our blood sugar. I think it's really, really helpful for a lot of those things, and a lot of those other factors. Those non-food factors as well. Yeah, totally Agree, I feel like, you know as anything that's tracking and data driven. You can definitely take it to the nth degree. That is unhealthy, but I'm a data.

Junkie. So I like drooling in on, you know, what, my CG. M-- data is showing what my or ring with my garments. I gotta like all that stuff. Yes. A deep dive on. See GM's, continuous glucose monitors here, because a lot of people have not used them are cures to use them. Which one are you typically use like the Libre? So I have I have used both the Libre and the decks comma use the Dexcom one time. I got it from a company called cygnus and I really really liked it.

So I am used to the Libre and that one has a little bit more of a margin of error. So I always recommend that people if they are getting a CGM to also get a finger prick glucometer as well because those tend to be a little bit more accurate. So we like to see GM's for more of the pattern of What's going on? And then you might know like, oh, you know, it's may be trending 10 points, too high or something. So you can mentally sort of subtract but it still gives you

great information. So there are those pros and cons of it and one thing that I don't like about the Libre, if you just get the regular one, you can't change. What is it calibrate? The meter. So if it is running 10 points, too high, you can't calibrate it in the app, but with the Dexcom you can, you can sort of see Up, and then I think the Libre to which I believe neutral sense

uses. You can calibrate it up or down by I believe 20. Yeah when I got I got a couple through nutritients and it was registering like 15 or 20 points. Hi from me. So I had to calibrate it down. Like I just test it with ya glucometer. And then I just, you know down regulated by the 15 or 20 point. Mark the there's a couple of companies doing the libran are right like nutria sense does the Libre and then there's another one called level I believe and They're using the Libre to, right?

Yeah, so neutral sense and levels are using the Libre the Libre to I believe there is a company called taster moneill. And this is definitely the cheapest way to get a CGM. So in the u.s. you need a prescription to get one if you didn't know. And so what testimonial does they do have a program where you can get a box of food.

And so they have these different kind of like low-carb keto type foods and They're doing is having a bunch of people put on see GM's, eat this food and test their blood sugar. So they can see sort of a general response to what blood sugar does with a certain food, which I love that idea for the data, but you can if you don't want those foods, which I didn't

want them. You can just scroll down on their website to where it says ask first egm prescription and then you purchase the prescription through them to get the the CGM and they do the A on there. So that's a good option for a lot of people. And then signals does the Dexcom. And so, I've been really liking their interface a lot on on

signals. Because when you start spiking and I asked, you know, what is it that, you know, how fast is your blood sugar go up that, you know, it'll tell you this and they said it's a very complicated algorithm. But what happens is, if your blood sugar is spiking to a certain degree, it will alert you and it will say, you know, your blood Spiking, you have the next 20 minutes to sort of mitigate the spike. And so it recommends like go for a walk for 10 minutes. Do some squats and blah blah

blah. So I really like that idea of being proactive with your blood sugar and I like that the interface allows you to sort of take action and not just like give you this data. So I thought that was pretty cool. And that's through signals. You said. Yep. Now is that like is that like a partner company with next comp because I haven't been able to find And how to get a Dexcom unless I go through a doctor and go there, the whole traditional

round. Yeah. No II don't know how they have them. But that's the device that they have that they work with. So, I don't know if it's a partner company. I don't know how they do it, but I'm definitely going to be working more with them in the future. So, I was just trying out the device from them. Nice, nice. So, you know, the times that you've used to CGM. What are some? What are some common trends that you see personally and amongst

your clients So for anybody? Anything kind of know what to expect, or what, are some common pattern recognition that you can kind of look out for as relates to looking at the CGM data. Yeah. So I mean, basic rule of thumb is that we don't really want our blood sugar to rise, more than 30 milligrams per deciliter at a meal or else that starts to become too high of an insulin Spike and starts to become a little bit inflammatory for the body.

In general. We really want our levels to stay under 140 because above that can be inflammatory, but with blood sugar, there's No, like exact line that you cross and then then it's a big problem. It's sort of these patterns over and over day after day which have the biggest impact. So for people who want to stay in ketosis, we really don't want to see blood sugar. Probably maybe going over the 110 Mark. But again people have these different it.

There's so much bio individuality that you can't say that a certain blood sugar number would cause someone to have like To be kicked out of ketosis or not. So again, I like the idea of sort of measuring your ketones. If you're wanting to sort of see what your insulin is doing. So those are some things to sort of keep an eye out for and so some things that you might look for or CR that if your blood sugar is going down too low at the end of a meal.

So let's say it starts at 80 and then it goes up a little bit and then it goes down to like 70 or 60. That would be more of a hypoglycemic or Response and that hypoglycemia can happen anywhere from like immediately after the meal. Some people experience it as they're eating, which I find crazy and that can happen all the way up to 5 hours later. So where the blood sugar is going to low. Oftentimes, you might see dips

at night. Sometimes this is because you're laying on the sensor, so I like that. The Dexcom allows you to put the sensor on your stomach because we lay on our arm a lot of times. And so you might see these real Like steep dips at night. If you are waking up with like a pounding heart and you or you feel hungry, you need to eat, you feel faint. You feel like you're having a panic attack, that is a sign of a blood sugar crash. So you would probably see that

on your meter. I do see that some people have high blood sugar over night, and the people who I see this with tend to have some sort of stress going on. So a friend of mine who is wearing a CGM, she had this going on and she's thing with a lot of mold. So that was sort of her pattern at Night. My intends to go really low at night and go like, the alarm goes off on the Dexcom. I have to turn my phone off because it goes so low, but I'm fat adapted. So it can go low. It doesn't wake me up.

It's not a bad thing. So that's sort of alluding back to what we were talking about. Earlier that your blood sugar can go low. When you are fasting, if you are fat adapted and it will not be a stressful thing for your body. If you're However, it might wake you up. You might wake up feeling really exhausted and you would probably probably notice and there's some instances kind of like the exact opposite of that in which you may be fat adapted.

It makes sense for to go higher. For instance, when I was wearing mine, you know, I typically would hang around like the 70 milligrams per deciliter Mark, but then I would work out and then my CGM would say like immediately post workout. It would be like as high as 120 or something crazy, but then it would level off, you know, shortly after my body kind of equalize. Aged, yeah, and so during stress

like stressful periods. That's also when we're going to see these little spikes on the glue. Come on the CGM. So, a workout where you're, you know, getting your heart rate up, that's going to be a stressor for the body. It's going to liberate glucose. And so we're going to see that go up. We also see it during showers with infrared saunas and even just stressful events. So, some of those hormetic stressors, like the exercise, the sauna we, it's totally okay

to have those spikes in there. As long as your body can handle them, if you're someone with reactive hypoglycemia, or you feel terrible after you feel really exhausted after that, means your body. It was too much of a stress for your body, going into the area of you stress as opposed to the hormetic stressor, but over all those spikes that you see after a workout and after an infrared sauna session, that's actually going to improve your insulin sensitivity and your blood sugar

regulation over time. So those are totally okay, but one thing that surprised me is one morning I was This was when I was working in an office and I was late for work, and I was getting ready and I hadn't eaten that morning and I get to the office and scan my my cgn, and it showed like a big spike and I was like, what did I eat this morning? I was like, oh, I didn't eat. It was just, I was rushing around, trying to get ready. So that's that stressor.

Again, that acute stressor can cause that blip in the system and then the chronic stress when we see high levels of stress all the time. We just tell And to see these the blood sugar numbers rising over time. So where you're hanging out around the 70s, other people might be hanging out around like the hundreds, you know, when tens when 20s and upwards just throughout their day. Gotcha. I gotcha.

What about I've heard of a few people in like the carnivore space, for instance, who are consuming a lot more protein. Still a pretty good amount of dietary fat, but maybe not so much. So as they would, if they were following more of a traditional ketogenic. It still very minimal carbohydrate or zero carbohydrates are doing carnivore and they'll start to see slightly higher blood glucose levels at Baseline. Is that normal? Is that fine?

What's your take on that? So I don't necessarily have a take on that, but I see that all the time. It's just that high level of protein is kind of, you know, the gluconeogenesis were just getting a little bit more sugar in the system and then it tends to be a little bit higher over time. I think that we don't necessarily know enough about What that looks like for a long period of time if that's ok if it's not. Okay, so I don't really have a you know a good opinion on it.

What do you think about that? I think that I mean as long as it's like within a healthy range, like if they're consuming more protein that this this is interesting. So there I'm all for protein like a lot of people are you know in favor of protein. Lot of people are human eyes in

proteins. It's a strange thing protein right now, but my whole take on it is consume as much protein as As you can without any adverse effects, but a lot of people have consumed in excess and there is certainly an upper threshold to it. Your body would tolerate optimally, because if you're, if you're trying to optimize your body composition, if you trying to get enough protein in and then you take in an Xs and go beyond that threshold, then

you're basically stealing from the energy that you could be consuming and setting. If you're if you were to equate calories, for instance, and make that Surplus beyond what is necessary for building muscle and repairing. Recovering. And then any of extra protein you're consuming is is basically going to be inefficiently used as energy through gluconeogenesis where you could have just consumed that in dietary fat and if you're a fat adapted that would be a better source of energy.

So that's kind of my around the bound, take on it. Yeah, and I agree with that too. So, you know, the body can't store excess amino acid, so it's going to convert it to glucose. So if you get that in the form of fat, then you can utilize that better as energy if you're fat. Adopted and yeah, love that. Totally what about testing ketones via the breathalyzers testing for acetones. Become a lot more popular recently to you. You put much stock in that, right?

I am not a fan of the breath. M. I got one and I just I find like it takes a long time to calibrate. Its got like countdown. It's just to me. I feel like the blood, the, you know, testing through the blood is just tried and true. I'm familiar. A ranges. I feel like that's what I've gotten used to. Maybe I'm too old school on this and I need to adapt, but I just haven't. I know that it is a good way of testing as opposed to like peeing on urine strips.

That's a poor way of testing. So it is a good measure but I don't personally use it very often. Do you know it's interesting. I've had, you know, I've tried several of them. I've tried several of them. Like I remember when level, I think it's a totally separate company than the CGM. But there was a company called level for breathalyzers that was way back in, like, 2000 17 or 18, I believe and I was testing that out and I've tested several

of them since. And I think they're their stances that basically by testing the breath, ketones are able to see how much of these ketones your body's actually using, which if it was very accurate. I like that concept, but I don't know that the science and technology is to a point where that can be. Truly what it is accurately depicted because I do a lot of the recommendations they give, I don't put much stock in the

recommendations. Like I don't think that it's going to accurately say, hey, look, you're you're burning fat Now. Versus now you're not burning fat and they're trying to Market themselves as metabolic readers, and I don't know that we've gotten enough advancement to accurately measure metabolism in that regard. I agree with that and so I haven't tried some of those devices that tell you. It's like, oh, you're in a fat

burning mode. And this, it's like, I feel like I've tried that and I had just eaten carbs and it's like oh you're in fat burning. Or I don't feel like the technology is fully there yet. And I was talking to a friend and she's like we could put a bit a man on the moon but we can't accurately. No, measure blood sugar. And when I really want to see is a continuous insulin monitor, you know, like where where is the technology on this?

I want to pay money to have this done because I think this would be the best thing that we can ever get. So I do know of a company that Is home fasting insulin testing. It's called so well, and I'm excited to test my fasting insulin. I got a kit. So I'm going to test mine soon. But you know, the insulin is really what we really really want to know about. Yes. This is interesting.

So I totally agree. I feel like a continuous insulin monitor would be by far the most most actionable form of testing where the data is going to literally depict how we, you know, make choices of words. And our nutrition throughout the day. When it comes to things that can be impacting insulin, but aren't necessarily showing up on a CGM or glucometer. What are some things that come

to mind for you there? Things like like vegetable oils, increasing our resistance to insulin and possibly making it hang out a little bit longer in the blood. I'm not sure if it works like that. But yeah, just, I mean some of those stressors. But again, we could see that on the CGM. What did you take on the cephalic phase of insulin response? Do you put much weight in that? I'm actually not familiar with that. So that's kind of like, how big a way to find it.

Basically. Like if you, if you taste something sweet, your body, your brain is going to be receiving the signal that, hey, something sweet is coming, which it typically is used to that being sugar. So it increases insulin secretion. So you're basically getting an insulin response. Even if you're not really fully ingesting anything, but basically just having that sweet sensation on your tongue.

You also like, even if you're just thinking about food, Your body is building up all these mechanisms for the digestion process. That's one of the big arguments against a lot of artificial sweeteners. But for me, I've noticed that a lot of people they'll they'll eat something that doesn't really have that big of an

impact on blood glucose. For instance, many of these artificial sweeteners and natural sweeteners to aren't really going to be, you know, high on the glycemic index scale, but they'll notice many of the same symptoms that they'll notice if it were to have been coming from sugar, if that makes sense. Yes, absolutely. And I'm very familiar with what you're talking about.

I just forgot the name of it. So this is when I tried like a Lily's chocolate bar because it had like the stevia and erythritol in it. And what I saw my CGM is a dip and in the blood sugar and so you can see that you're getting a an insulin response without having the blood sugar response to then the blood sugar goes down. I see this a lot in people who are extra sensitive to to just blood sugar in general with a lot of Reactive hypoglycemia clients, they experienced this a lot.

So a lot of these electrolytes out there for keto that have all these sweeteners in them. And I think that is just setting you up for so many cravings and all these things because you're getting the insulin, whether it's just a small amount or not. I think it really impacts when there's no food in the system like all these processes. Like you said are at work and then your body is like Hey, where's the food? I thought we were getting it. So it will send that like

physiological. I'll drive for you to seek it out and I'll notice if I have some sort of like a Redmond, Real Salt, like the relight or like the the element when I drink those, the flavored ones, all they'll hit my lips. I feel like Frank the Tank and I just chug them and I'm like, what just happened. You know, what, like, how is this happening to me? Why did, why did that was that? My response and I was drinking, like five of these things a day.

I'm like I need to stop. It is so so addictive. So I think that part Part of it has to do with that insula genic response that we get to these these foods that are sweetened but not containing actual sugar. Yeah. I totally agree. I feel like there's, it's interesting because there's a lot of people that point to

studies that show. Hey, look, if you're, you know, controlling for calories, there's not really any any negative outcome that comes from artificial sweeteners or sweet Foods. There's no increase in you know, that driving more caloric consumption, etc. Etc. But I know too many people People especially in the keto low-carb space.

I don't know if it's a psychological response due to them having an addictive tendency towards sweet processed foods, but for whatever reason, I mean, I know way too many people that that's a point to that say. Hey, look, if I eat something sweet, my level of satiety is incredibly diminished. My tendency to overindulge is incredibly heightened like that to me, lets me know that maybe it's just a psychological response, but I'm leaning towards it. Having some physiological

implications for sure. Yeah. I absolutely think it. As and then there's I'm not sure about this but like the sweet receptors that we have in our gut as well. So I think that that could have something to do with it as well. I mean anything that's going to impact our gut bacteria, make them think sugars coming. They're sort of all excited that you know, something's coming.

I do think it is very physiological and especially if you do get a little dip in your in your glucose, I call that the Cravings own when your glucose is going down. It automatically is sending signals to your body to like, Hey, we need more energy because the glucose is going down. So I feel like when the insulins around that is sort of a byproduct of that. Yeah, I totally agree. What's your take on vegetables? Like when you've tested with a

CGM? Do you notice much response from you know, increased vegetable intake, especially through eating vegetables in isolation without a bunch of proteins and fats. I don't know that I've eaten vegetables by themselves without proteins and fats. I I'm honestly looking at vegetables more from a digested perspective, lately that I feel like I do better with fewer vegetables as vegetables, are causing me kind of some

bloating. I do have some gut issues that I'm working on. So but I don't really notice, you know, I mean, they're CGM, experiments out there having some non-starchy vegetables at the beginning of the meal can help to reduce the blood sugar response from the meal because the fiber is slowing down the absorption of the glucose. So I can see it being beneficial in that way. But was there anything more specific about like starchy or

non-starchy vegetables? Well, I've like, just personally anecdotally, I've noticed that, you know, a lot of people Point towards vegetables was being incredibly satiating and that's probably true in the context of a mixed diet in which you are consuming more carbohydrates and glucose and it's kind of helping to mitigate that Spike. But in the context of Aikido low-carb carnivore diet, I don't find in any. Any increase in satiety with vegetables of calories are

equated. When I feel like there probably is honestly, I feel like there's there's probably a little bit less absorption of nutrients. If you're eating more vegetables paired with proteins and fence and you can kind of bypass I'm going to cut for instance and I'm my calories are lower, you know, getting ready for a competition. I noticed more satiety in the absence of vegetables. I think it's because my body is absorbing the proteins and fats and better without the vegetables.

And I feel like I'm probably having less of a glucose response from the vegetables, but It's not going to be a drastic, you know, Spike or drop, you know with most vegetables, but that's just something I've personally noticed. Yeah, and I think you're right to, so, if I'm eating a lot of protein, it's sort of like the fiber, and the roughage can take up, space in your stomach and make you feel temporarily full more like that physical full.

But when you get a lot of protein and fat which are, you know, we know that they're the most satiating macronutrients and like, you can't really over, eat protein and a meal. Like, when you have that satiety, It cut off. I think that I feel more satiated as well.

I think that sometimes perhaps the this, like pattern of eating that we might have like, taken from where we came from, maybe like the standard American diet or something like wanting to have something crunchy, or wanting to have something sweet. At the end of a meal. We might feel like, something's missing. But in terms of actual satiety and fullness, we might be fully full. Yeah. Yeah, what's been your deep dive

into digestion lately. You said you're talking, you're kind of leaning more towards then, learn more about that. Yeah. Yeah. So when I went to nutritional therapy school, the thing that I was most Blown Away with was digestion and I think that a lot of people, what I see happen is that, you know, first of all, I'll tell someone. Oh, you know what, I think you need to look at digestion. They're like, oh no, my desk

digestions fine. I take a probiotic and it Goes to show like how little we know about digestion. I used to think that Justin was just this, like, on-and-off switch, like you eat, you digest. It comes out. Like, almost like a blender, you know, like you put it in, you blend it and then you pour it out. Like, that's how I saw it

digestion worked. But what I didn't know is that there's so many factors that can impact digestion, and we need to think about it, like this north-to-south process. So, first off, we need to be in a parasympathetic state in order to digest when we're in a sympathetic fight, or flight, stay our He stops producing stomach acid. It stops producing saliva, bile. It stops peristalsis in the

intestines. So we need to be in this column rested State. And most of us, myself included, do not chew enough chewing actually activates the parasympathetic nervous system, which is helpful. We also need to be sitting, I used to be the queen of standing and eating. So we need to sit rest, chew our food really, really well in order to start activating. All of the processes and the liquids, and digestive enzymes and things that we need to actually break down the food.

We are so disconnected from digestion that we don't realize that all the nutrients that our body needs. We need to extract them from the foods that were eating. So we don't run on steak, we run on the amino acids and the zinc, and the minerals, and the vitamins that are in the state. Great. So we need to think, okay. I need to take this hunk of me and break it down into these microscopic particles that Body can absorb and utilize.

So that's really what I talk about when I'm saying digestion. So we're talking about the breaking down and absorption of food. So when we think about it in that context, like I said, we need to be a sympathetic then we need to have sufficient stomach acid. So I see a lot and people who are starting to do a lower carb diet that they always have these digestive issues when they start keto, how often have you heard like, oh now I'm constipated

now. Food is running right through me. I try to change my diet, but I just it can't even look at me anymore. I don't have a gallbladder or I have gallbladder issues. So a lot of these things come up and they come from this poor. When we have a bad diet growing up which most of us have had because that's the food that they're selling us and telling us we need to eat, right? So it's no one's fault, but we come to this having broken digestive systems.

So we're not in in rest and digest were eating on the go. We're eating really fast. We're not chewing and then we don't have enough stomach. So when we don't have enough stomach acid, we might have a loss of a taste for meat food. Feels like it's it's like a stomach, a rock in your stomach. You might have burping gas or bloating like about an within an

hour after eating. I know that, my tell, if I haven't supported my stomach acid enough, is that I'll start burping, I'm like, oh no, I forgot to take my HCL. And then, we also can have bits of undigested food in our stool. We might have fingernails that chip and peel. And break easily. We might have a loss of a taste for breakfast. We might not be hungry in the morning. We might feel better. If we don't eat, we might get heartburn.

So heartburn and indigestion is often a sign of to little stomach acid, not too much and then same thing, sort of lumping, the pancreatic enzymes in there. If we don't have enough stomach acid. It doesn't trigger the pancreas to produce all the enzymes that the pancreas produces. Also, if we have this blood sugar that's super out of control. And we are always needing so much insulin.

Pancreas is an organ that produces hormones, but also these digestive enzymes and so it might be too fatigued and run down to or not have enough, you know, nutrients to be able to produce all these enzymes. So then we get further lack of absorption. And the biggest problem with no stomach acid is that we need stomach acid to activate this enzyme in our stomach called pepsin. And pepsin, is job, is to break down proteins.

It couldn't be activated all the time because we are made of protein and it would be Ting us. So, we need the stomach to become acidic enough to turn on protein digestion. And so, it's a really big problem. We see a lot of people struggling with like depression anxiety. How many vegans are depressed? Because they don't have enough protein, right?

But this can also happen with people who eat meat because they are not properly breaking down their food and you also need stomach acid to absorb B12 and iron and minerals and we also need the B12. The zinc to produce stomach acid. So sometimes we need some supplements, sort of, as a bridge to help us. We also need to be hydrated for that and then we can go into the gallbladder. I mean, so many people.

If you've ever been on a low fat diet, a vegan diet or a standard American diet, where we're getting crappy oils. You probably have some level of gall, bladder dysfunction because bile is a substance that is produced in the liver to help us emulsify fats and it needs, it gets recycled.

So if we're not using it because we're not eating a lot of fat like in the 80s and 90s the bile gets thick and sluggish and then it can't do. Its job of Thoroughly, you know being squirt out like a big clump of dish soap that and I think about bio like that and so we're not getting we might get gallbladder attacks. We might have stools that are greasy and shiny. They might float. They might be clay-colored or green colored. So those are signs of some gall bladder dysfunction.

Also a headache, above your eye, having you. Meals running right through you. If you eat a high fat or greasy meal or chronic constipation again, so, if you're noticing that, you're adding in higher fat and protein foods, and all of a sudden, you're just not digesting. Well, it could be because of these areas of digestion are not up to par. So that's where nutritional therapy comes in to help support those organs of breaking down and then we absorbed in the small intestine.

So that needs to be everything needs to be well, broken down before it gets to the small intestine. Or else we got like a chunk of steak in there. It's got bacteria on it because the, the stomach acid didn't disinfected properly. It's shaving down all the Cilia in there, which absorb nutrients because it's too inflammatory. The body was expecting, an amino acid, not a hunk of steak.

And then this leads to inflammation in the gut, it leads to the, in the Integrity of the gut wall is compromised now and it starts to become leaky. And then we have leaky gut, we get developed more food sensitivities, and we have reduced nutrient absorption and then all of this will have a negative. Impact. Or if we get it, right, it will have a positive impact on our gut bacteria in the large

intestine. And that's where the probiotic comes in. So, as you can see, there's so much that can happen and has to happen before we get to the large intestine, that a probiotic, is just helping the last thing in the chain. And so, we really want to focus on optimizing those steps of digestion because that can really help to improve the bacterial balance of the gut. So that was my crash course on digestion. No. No, this is great.

I mean so many people just Throw caution to the wind and they don't really give digestion and proper absorption. The credits do like, a lot of people make the mistake of they'll have, you know, some acid reflux. Or they'll have no, they'll be, they'll be belching. That's just him. Okay. I've got too much ass and they'll take an antacid like a Tums or something. That was probably the exact opposite of what they need to be doing.

So for people that are experiencing this, what's a pretty good quick fix like take some HDL tablets and maybe some some bile salts into their His own production kind of up, regulates what you recommend there.

So, you know, I have to be careful with recommending, you know, HCL because there are quite a few contradiction contraindications for it. So, if you do have ulcers, there certain medications, you know, you want to be really careful with dosing HCL, and I would really work with a practitioner to help you find your dose. But HCL could be great, digestive enzymes and then certain files support. So, there are certain nutrients and supplements that help.

Help to support the gallbladder. If you don't have a gallbladder, you will want to take replacement like bile salts or bile acids or Ox bile to help replace what you don't have anymore. But taking that if you have a gallbladder taken that initially can be helpful, but you don't want to take it long term because it can actually down regulate your own production of bile, but that can be helpful.

So, sitting down chewing your meals taking deep breaths, getting and rest and digest some apple cider vinegar before. Meals, can be really, really helpful because that can has a three-fold benefit. I love when things have multi benefits. So, it helps to increase stomach acid and helps to increase bile output and also helps to reduce blood sugar spikes at meals. So, I feel like, I should personally be sponsored by apple cider vinegar, but they are,

it's really great to add that. And then some digestive enzymes and, you know, working with the practitioner to find what area you need support with and then some Healing nutrients for the small intestine and then anything for the large intestine, we really need to do some testing to figure out, but you can do a lot of work up in the areas above, to get a lot of resolution of some of these digestive issues in the large intestine. What's the dosage you recommend

on the apple cider vinegar? Just like a shot of it. Yeah. So usually like a tablespoon and a little bit of water and a pinch of cinnamon, really helps with the taste so that could be helpful work your way up. Some people don't tolerate apple cider vinegar there. I tried it and I had to run to the bathroom. It wasn't pretty. So you can start with smaller and smaller amounts. See if you can increase to that. But if you just don't tolerate, it, don't push through that.

Just wanted to announce that. Yeah, no totally makes sense. Well, what's in the pipeline for you? What do you have coming? That's new and exciting. What do you stoked about? So, I mean your I mean, you've got a crash course on digestion and blood sugar regulation for sure. But like, what are you focusing? Your attention on going forward? Yeah, some actually in the middle of creating a course called optimized your digestion. Even for low carb diets, so I'm hoping to have that out by June.

We'll see how my quarter goes but that is something that I'm really really excited about because I feel like that's not talked about enough in this space. We're all eating a ton of fat and protein and if we can't digest it, it's a way to really unlock so much of the benefit from this diet when so many people are having these stalls and eating these foods that they they're they're supposed to eat, but then they're forced back to eating carbs because it's the

only thing that they can digest. And that It's my heart because it's causing a lot of issues, you know, collateral issues. So I have the optimize your digestion course coming out. My signature course, is blood sugar Mastery, and that's an eight week program. The next round again is in the summer right now. We're going through the course and there is a whole module on digestion. It's module 2 because that's how important it is to really get

this right at the beginning. And that is a really transformative course that walks through all different areas of blood sugar regulation. We look at sea GM's and and help you sort of interpret the data there's coaching and then I'm going to be talking at Kita, akan with you. You're going to be there too. Yeah. I mean, I don't think we've ever met in person. Having have you been at you to calm down. I have never been to any convention.

So I became a nutritional therapist, pretty recently, and I quit. My retired from speech therapy in late, 2020. So, I'm pretty new to this whole Space because You know, I had to work my way out of a job and be able to, you know, support myself as an entrepreneur. So I haven't been to any conventions and I started in the height of covid. So I haven't been able to go

anywhere. So I'm actually going to be going to paleo effects in a few weeks, which I'm really excited about because I've been wanting to go to that since 2013 since I started doing paleo. And so I'm really excited to meet people in person and and you know experience the world in in Vivo. Go as opposed to Via Zoom, which has been my entire experience. Yeah, I mean the conferences are like a whole nother ballgame. I mean zooms, great.

Like we're able to talk right now being in different parts of the US, but I mean the conferences. Like you leave those conferences, especially when Aikido Khan, and you just like, you feel the aura, that all that energy and Vibe puts off. And it's like, you can't help but know that. Okay, whatever's going on here. It's working and people are better for it. I feel confident that I'm part of this.

Like, you feel About where you spend your time and efforts for sure, so it's definitely worthwhile. Yeah, I feel elevated just thinking about it. And I know that it's going to be. So transformative, just to be in person, with all these people who, you know, meet people in real life.

I've seen who I've admired through, you know, throughout my time in the space and, and to meet people whose lives that my information has helped and it's it'll just be so great sort of putting it in person because, you know, working from home by myself. Elf, you know, doing my thing. It's great to have the internet as a source of connection, but there's I'm nothing like being in person. So I'm really excited for that hundred percent and the people.

I mean, the people that you connect with like the network, they're all good. People like you and I got in contact through Rachel, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm I was meeting Rachel through our podcast. We both interviewed each other on our podcasts and we're like the same person. It's so funny that you could just meet people and you have

this instant connection. And it's like, you just, you know, I feel sometimes like the weird one out in my group of friends, like, where I am in my real life, like, in my family. I do things differently from everybody. Like I'm sitting there with my castor oil pack and my blue light blocker glasses on and I'm like, I want to go home and go

to bed, you know at 8 p.m. And people are like, okay you're weird and you know, you're different and then you go to these conferences and you're like, oh, these are my people and you meet people online who are doing the same things you're doing. Doing or just believe what you believe and it's really nice to feel that you're a part of something and that you're not. So the rainbow sheep, you know, 100%. I feel like having that sense of

community. That's why I've been so proud to be a part of this community because by and large, everybody's in it. For the right reasons. They're all good people and you just like feel you, feel that connection. So, you're in the right, you're in the right group, for sure. Yeah. One more time. Where do people go to to find out more about you? What's the name of that Mastery course, so, Mike. His blood sugar Mastery and then the upcoming one. It's going to be an online

program. That one is optimize your digestion for low carb diets. I do have waitlist for that. You can find me on Instagram, Danielle Hamilton health.com know Danielle Hamilton Health and my website is Danielle Hamilton, help.com. So pretty much, you can find me if you type in those three words. Awesome. Awesome, Daniel. I will certainly link out to your site. The course your social, I think you and I've got a podcast on yours coming up like - right. Yep, I unlock the shackles

podcast. That's my podcast. Awesome. Awesome. We will be talking and just a few days then. Yeah, sounds good. I'm excited to chat again in here. Hear your side. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for taking the time, always a pleasure. There's ever anything I can do for you. Definitely. Just let me know. All right. Thank you. Take care.