Those Aren't People!

The sight before us is that of a strong and good nation that stands in silence and remembers those who were loved and who in return loved their countrymen enough to die for them. Yet we must try to wantor them, not for their sakes alone, but for our own. And if words cannot repay the debt we owe these men, surely with our actions we must strive to keep faith with them, and with a vision that led them to battle and a

final sacrifice. Our first obligation to them and ourselves is plain enough. The United States and the freedom for which it stands, the freedom which they died, must endure and prosper. Their lives remind us that freedom is not bought

cheaply. It has a cost. The willingness of some to give their lives so that others might live never fails to evoke in us a sense of wonder and mystery, and how they must have wished, in all the ugliness that war brings, that no other generation of young men to follow would have to undergo that same experience. As we honor their memory today, let us pledge that their lives, their sacrifices, their valor shall be justified and remembered for

as long as God gives life to this nation. And let us also pledge to do our utmost to carry out what must have been their wish. Let no other generation of young men will ever have to share their experiences and repeat their sacrifice. Now one of your pointing, Ah, I got a screen going on to hear something. Just kills my dog. Let me kill your dog? My dog. We're flying through the or over the tree. I don't know how it did it, okay, damn, and I'm really confused.

All I saw is my dog coming over the fence and he was dead. And once he hit the ground, I didn't see any cars. All I saw was my dog coming over the fence. Say, what are you putting? We got some wond or something crawling around out here? Did you see what it was? It was? It was staying enough. I'm out here looking through the window now and I don't see anything. I don't want to go outside. Jesus Christ, you better, Chara Sey, Hello,

get somebody out here. What's going on else? I thought of a mention about tech forty nine. I don't know eating out there? Yeah, I'm working right ay here if you want, I hope you're having a safe and happy Memorial Day. Wanted to do something a little special, as I always tried to do every single year. This is an episode that aired way back a couple of years ago on Sasquatch Out to See. It was originally episode

twenty four with Todd. Nie Todd is a military veteran and he actually saw three Sasquatch while out on maneuvers during his military career, so I wanted to remaster this episode. It was way back when the audio was not great quality, so I've done the best I can with this. This is back when I was still interviewing people via telephone and not using the software that I use now, so it's still not the best quality audio, but it's much better

than it was, so I hope you guys really enjoy it. I couldn't think of a better way to honor our fallen heroes than to put this out right here on Memorial Day. So here you are the remastered version of episode twenty four that aired originally on May fourteenth, twenty twenty one. To the show Todd, thank you for having me put the pleasure That'll be with you

absolutely man. It's my honor and now I thank you for rescheduling. We had something scheduled a couple of weeks back and I had to cancel it the last minute, so I really do appreciate you taking the time to reschedule and come on the show man. I no word, this is an encounter show. I know you've got tons of things to talk about. You've been doing this type of research for many years. If your bio is the litany of things that you've done throughout your life, we certainly want to get to that.

I know you've had encounters with these things in the past. If you would just take us back to where you were, what you were doing, what happened during your first encounter. Yeah, thank you for asking. Before I get to that, I think it's the only fair to preface my story by saying that I have grown up in the Pacific Northwest all my life Bard and Fordland and lived in all the surrounding rural areas. I've heard and you can't help it here about bigfoot living here in the Pacific Northwest, but I'd

never given it any credibility. I hunt and hike and fish extensively, never seen anything, So I relegated the whole thing to I don't know campfire story or whatnot, But on April third, nineteen ninety three, that all changed very dramatically for me. It was on that day Saturday. In fact, I was training with the Army National Guard here in Oregon. I was a

combat engineer. Good part of what we do involved heavy explosives. Once a year we had a contract with a local timber company that allow us to go up into their private timberland and do the real big explosions to three hundred pounds of explosives at once. That we just no way we could do that on the base without breaking every window. So this is one of those annual let's

go up in the woods and get down and blow stuff up. And had three blasting sites and I won't go into a lot of tail and to stay that at each of these flast sights, we're talking about gravel for it. We would literally send up a mushroom cloud, whether it was C four plastic explosive or vody of nitrate that we've been soaking a diesel fuel, but big little miniature earthquake kind of stuff. We were just setting the fuses on our

third and last demo site. Once we got those fuses left. Standard operating procedure was to get in the vehicles and obviously get the heck out of there. We had four vehicles. I was in the second of four vehicles as a passenger, sitting behind the driver, and it was just a beautiful day in April, just like right now to be exacted, which is rare, but it's nice. So I had the window and zipped and my arm hanging out the window, and I'm looking around the country for any kind of while

ife, dear elf bear or whatever. It was just natural for me to do that. As we were a little over halfway to the safety staging area where we would wait for the explosion and then go back and check our work, the taller trees dropped away into an area where they had a reprod as we call it brand new tree planning, is probably about eight to ten feet high. I could see over the top of those trees on this road that

we were on, winding gravel logging roads. As we're going along, I'm looking off to the left side of the vehicle, that second gravel site came into full view. What struck me was I saw these three large dark still a west If you well, my first thought was, what the hell are

those people doing down there? Because we have full security going on, you can imagine with the danger level what we're doing, and everybody is accounted for, and yet here's these three figures potentially in harms away from the explosion it's about to go off. But I hardly got that up through my mind. And when I'm like, those are people, the reason I say that is that the silhouette, for one, was not human. They're all standing on two feet, and they had arms and legs. They had on their shoulders

and all that, but these are arms tone down. I would stay halfway between their knees and their feet, which was bizarre because it didn't look like they were actually hunched over anything. And even the legs looked way too long proportionate to the torso, the head fat, squarelyum shoulders, but really no visible neck. I can only assume that their trapezoids just went from their ears

down to their shoulders. The other thing was they were jet black. Had they been people wearing normal clothes, I would easily be able to make that out, but there was no clothes. These states are just this disproportionately huge. To begin with, the picture, this three of these beings standing and facing us, three in a row. The one in the middle standing a bolt had taller than the two that blanked had left and right, I would estimate to be nine foot or better. The other two came up to hit

shoulders, so I'm thinking seven seven and a half feet tall. None of them human dimensions by any means. It was fascinating. The one there in the middle just stood there like a statue. I don't think I saw it even blank. These two on either side of the larger one. The whole time we're exhibiting this rocking motion, the shifting weight from foot to foot in the process rocking left and right, these long pendulous arms swinging well below the

knees. This wasn't a two or three or five seconds something ran in front of the vehicle of the road and crossed it in two steps or whatever. This waswenty five seconds. Twenty five seconds, I know, doesn't sound like a lot much you put in perspective, I'd ask your listeners just stare at your watch for twenty five seconds. But especially when I was watching it, it seemed like eternity. But after twenty five seconds we rounded the corner and

I lost sight. Of them, and I just sloped back in my seat tried to make sense of what I just let us go through this initial shock. Then you're questioning, almost denying, what you're seeing. You're trying to equate it with whatever you can. And I'm sitting there going, okay, three black bears all just happen to be standing up side by side watching nothing made sense that in about two seconds, I do exactly what I was watching. And I have to tell you that twenty five seconds has affected my entire

adult life. Ever said so for what now, more than twenty eight years, I've been researching them, pursuing them. I think, why me, I could have been driving the vehicle, I could have been sitting on the other side of them. They we could have been there a minute later or a minute earlier. I never saw anything. I felt there was a purpose in it, or there has to be, because why me? My purpose, as I've determined it, is to try to get them officially recognized my

science. Because I'm not a believer in vig food. I'm a knower. I can't unsee what I saw even if I wanted to. So, knowing that I feel my purposes get them officially recognized in order to get them protected should they need it. Even at this point, we don't know if they need it, and there's people out there say all evil though they're doing fine, that's just bs because they don't know. We don't know how many there are today. By comparison, we don't know how many there were a thousand

years ago. Are there never going down? Are there nevers going off? So we have those answers, as elusive and seemingly as rare as they are, I would rather err on the side of caution and try to establish protections for them until we know absolutely what the health of their species is. I feel very blessed to seeing what I saw it again. I'm looking for a purpose. That that's why I founded the American Primate Conservancy. It's a nonprofit

that states on science and education, and we're try to establish protections. So that's my story. That's what got me involved in it. I appreciate you sharing your story. One of the things I've talked to Jeff Meldrum about what his thoughts are on what the population may be saying the lower forty eight, because my question to him was, and it's the same question for you. It's all a hypothesis. It's all a theory. We don't know. Nobody's out taking a census of bigfoot. That's the point, right, If we

could do that, we could prove the species exist and protect it. We have thousands and thousands of sightings of these things. If all the people that say they see these things across the Lower forty eight are telling the truth, there has to be a huge population. Because I tend to agree with you. I think these things are a lot more rare and way more elusive than some people would maybe want people to believe. Well, we talked about it.

Meldrum said, I think it's very comparable to a black bear. If a black bear can exist somewhere, it's possible that a sasquatch can exist there. If he did all this math and came up with an estimated population of probably somewhere between maybe about twenty five hundred to five thousand of these things in the lower forty eight spread out over the lower forty eight, that's a pretty sparse population. Nothing by way of comparison. I get this question close to

me many times, and we happen to be at an outdoor. I'll look over it at a mountains and I'll go, Okay, let's look from this point to the left, this point to the right. Let's just figure that two miles just taking into account the Cascade mountain Range, which starts in Mount Lassen, northern California, goes right on in the British Columbia. The Coast Range, the Temperate rainforest that starts in Cave Medesino, California and goes up

to the Olympic National Forest. There's over sixty thousand square miles and most of it very sparsely populated. And I can say that because I live there. I live in the Cascade. Yeah, there's roads that go through there, but the houses are all along the roads. And what lies between those roads, who knows. But let's just take those two ranges, and I'm going to hypothetically say we're looking off at the distance. I'm saying two miles of

that mountain range over there. Let's just play what if now, keeping things to scale, if I'm going to stay two miles of a out on top over here represent sixty million square miles, then my bag foot they're gonna be the size of beanies. Now I'm gonna ask you me a day and I'm gonna take two thousands of those, and that's my estimates, closer to two thousand. Me that as ma. I'm gonna take two thousand of these little copper bebies. You're gonna give you a day, and I'm gonna plant those

all over up there, and I'm not gonna burg them. They'll be out on top of the surface, but I'm gonna go around and scatter them like Easter eggs. Now, I'll give you a day. I'll give you a week to find one of them. What do you think the odds you'll find one? And you can't use the metal detector. I could probably find one or two. And I said, all right, there's a couple of caveats.

Those bright shiny little beanies. They're not bright tiny copper anymore. We're gonna paint them black and brown and maybe green, and then I'm gonna scatter them. Now, what are the odds are you going to find a week? I'll probably find one. Okay, have you on number two? These little painted babies they can hear, they can smell, they can see, and they can move. Now what do you think you're ob just fighting them? And they're like, oh, I'm like that's what you're dealing with.

It really comes down to uh So, I wouldn't compare them to bear populations because I can tell you in Oregon alone, we have over six thousand black bears. I've seen maybe five cougars about five thousand or so. I've only seen one in Oregon and one in California. In my entire life, I spent a lot of time out of the way. And I know a lot of people talk about, well, they've got to die, there's going to be bones, So how can we I'm found any bones. Have you ever

found bones of a cougar? Now? Then why are you even questioning why we're not finding carcass of an animal that numbers probably one to five in cougar if that and the other thing too. In the Pacific Northwest a special a very volcanic area, And what that means is the soil is very accidic, which contributes to decomposition. But that's only one factor when you take into weather,

and our weather's very wet over here. At least stuff here. He take into account scavengers, predators, bacteria, parasites that are already in even

our bodies. We lived symbiotically with parasites that most animals do. But you get all those factors together, and I'll give you For instance, I shot a Roosevelt hell in Battle Mountain area, which is actually the same area that I saw these three creatures because of a no storm that was starting up, the fact I had to actually gain an elevation to get out of there, and I was in a two wheel drive truck. I did a butcher's job. I didn't feel dressed like I normally do because I was afraid I might

not get out. So I took the rumps and the shoulders of the back had left quite a bit of the animal there. I bet there was still three hundred plus tounds of bone and meat there. I went back exactly three weeks later to the exact same spot. You'd never know that animal was there. There was nothing, but I knew I had the same spot. In fact, I actually tied off some of that orange ginger tear tape there at

the spot where I'd left it, and it was still there. I can't say there wasn't hide in her hair, because with the one exception, there was about a ten inch piece of hide that had been caught up in the brambles. Of salmon berry vines. But other than that, there was no evidence that animal was ever there. And that was three weeks. I wish I would have got there in two weeks or even the left of my gocro on the time left setting, just to see how quickly that was gone.

I could have been gone in a week, but that was a lot of meat and bone to just disappear. But dat is a really fantastic and recycler animals, at least around here. Don't laugh too long. It's one of the things that I always hear from skeptics. I love skeptical people because it makes for great conversation. I like to talk to people that I somewhat disagree

with just for the conversation of agreeing to just disagree. Yeh. That's one thing I always hear from people is there's never been a body, But for

the very exact same things that you said. There's tons of reasons that it there hasn't been a body found, or nobody walks up on a body, and that's assuming that they're not more sentient than we think they might be, and they may bury or at least retrieve the bodies of their falling family members or whatever the case may be. We don't know anything about these creatures,

so who knows what happens. But if you just stick to the science of Hey, this thing died in the woods, I came back two weeks later or three weeks later and it was completely gone. Makes perfect sense to me as to why there hasn't been a body found. Le'll me give you another scenario, and again this is speculation. You're right, we don't know for sure. At the point we need to know for sure, that's why we were research. But imagine this. I think it's fair to say that Bigfoot

are the apex animal in the wood. Can you give me a more figure, more powerful animal out there? Imagine if you will, if you spent your entire life never even once considering your death, your what's the word I'm looking for, your your own mortality? Mortality? Thank you. Like deer, pearl, rabbit and all these other animals, they are predated on all the time, and their entire life is spent running and hiding and doing the basics. They got to eat, leave and mate and all that. But

they're all constantly looking over their show. Where you think Bigfoot's doing that? Though? Stay tuned for more sasquat chotasy right back after these messages. So there's only three conditions I can think where they actually even consider it, and it's whether they're dying of old age, and certainly they do, or whether

they're still have disease of some sort what have you. Or they're injured and realize that they can't recover from that injury, they can't keep up with the rest of the plan or true for whatever they want to call them, they could no longer even on their own forage or hug. That's got to be a very awkward pot for a big foot for the first time to consider their mortality, but certainly they do. They all do it at some point in time, and they all know what happened to injured and feeble, whether it

be age or disease. They become the predated. They become vulnerable for probably the first time in their entire exist. So you tell me, just as a human, if you were out hiking, climbing whatever, you fell, broke both your legs, you're out in the middle of nowhere, something happens to where you find yourself literally surviving probably losing that battle. Are you going to just lay down and die. I'm probably not What are you going to

do? You're probably going to withdraw to a very remote area, probably somewhat of a defensible position that while you can put your back to a wall, and while you can at least to say you've got one hundred and eight degrees behind you covered, but you're gonna want to be able to face what's coming and hope that you die in a very peaceful way. But you're not going to lay down and just die where anybody can come along and trip over it. Oh look, no, it doesn't happen that way. I think that

what apex animals do. They're faced with the situation, but they're only going to face once in their life, and all of a sudden it's the game changes. I think they secret themselves to a place where they can die at relative pace. But that's just my theory. That's the thing about the subject is basically everything we talk about is just a theories. I think when you start telling people they're right or wrong when it comes to this kind of stuff,

I think you're way out of bounds. But I definitely agree with you your outlooking I think your hypothesis there is very correct because an apex predator that what you just described makes way more sense than just laying down on a hiking trail for a hiker to stumble by in a day or two and find your bodies. That makes a lot of sense to me. You started down this path after your sighting. You started into investigating these things. So let's move

into your investigations over the last couple of decades. What are some of the more interesting investigations that you've been on. Maybe it's an interesting place, Maybe it's just interesting evidence that you came across. Is there anything that sticks out over the last couple of decades that really stuck out in your mind as a sort of an aha, this is a really cool experience moment. Oh many

tell you. My first actual what I would call attempt at the research was on the anniversary of my sighting in ninety three, just having a year to ponder everything I have to say too. When I got access to a library, I went and checked out every book on the subject that was available, at least as many of they as that me checkout. I don't think I've been in the library ten years at least. After digesting these books, many authors of who I would eventually come to me. Just trying to come up

with some of my own theories. I decided, perhaps these things migrate like here and el in the summer, they go up high in the winter, as their watering holes freeze over, they have no choice but to come down lower. I just trying to associate that with these guys, and they were in that area at that time, scenes the reason they might be back there

at that time. So like almost on the anniversary of my siding, I went back to not only the same area, but actually that quarry where I saw them in set up camp for a week with a friend of mine. I've had some recorders, I had some cameras. I basically took a camper out and jacked it down to its lowest bedding, moved my truck out away from the area, put camouflage netting over the camper, and I had enough where I could stretch out a bit of a canopy and cut a hold of

canopy for the camera. I thought I was like nationalleographic. I did everything I could with what I had, almost hilarious exercise. But I say that I had access to these side ground centers that would detect vibration in the ground right a military issue. I had them stretched out along kind of a picket

line a little ways away from the camper. I went so far as covering all the lights inside the camper with red cell of phane, like we have in military vehicles when we travel at night, enough light to read, but not enough to be seen from a distance. And I had the night shift the monitor, the sensors and whatnot right around midnight, and I swear to God, it was a balloon. We're out there, can alten? Did it? Oh? Censer number two is going off and often, and within

a matter of minutes, all four of the sensors are going off. My buddy is sleeping. I'm listening to the symphony of sensors going off. I'm freaking out. I'm thinking we're surrounded. Right. What I would come to learn and many lessons learned, trust me, along the way was where I had placed these sensors were close to the roots of these alder trees. What happened was a windstorm game and it's rocking these trees, ending vibration down their

trunks as they're bending. I had to steal myself to have the courage to go out there and try to track down these spencers at night and relocate them. There were a lot of stumbles along the way like that. I did another expedition in that area, Schattle Mountain area, eight day duration five years later in nineteen ninety eight. I was fortunate enough at the time to have got to meet and know and become friends with Peter Burne and Ron Moorhead,

so I sought them into coming on board as part of my team. We spent eight days up. I had some amazing stuff go on. Ron heard vocalizations a couple of days into it. N He's the source of the pier sound recording to the seventies of the Sierras. He's also a private pilot. He owned his own plane and he had flown it into their town of Seaside. And we had the trappiest weather when we were there, was just right on the border of snowing and raining all the time. It was terrible.

About day six, Ron says, the weather is clearing up a little bit, and I've got instrument rating, but I'd like to fly out called a visual VFR while we got to break in the weather. So Peter took him down to the airport. That left me there for a couple hours by myself. I'm thinking, you know what, I got these other spencers that I had borrowed from the North American Sciences US that I hadn't put in the ground

yet, So I don't just be a perfect time for that. So I went up on the hill above her base campus and started emplacing these and try to calibrate them. When this hailstorm came in, I had two choices. Because this hailstorm, if everything behind the Hilstar would just disappear, I'm like, I can make a run for it down to the base camp, maybe five hundred meters away, and I probably wouldn't get there before the hail.

Dinner option too is to go up just a little maybe one hundred meters behind me, up into the old growth and use the gigantic Doug Furs his umbrella until this thing passed. So I chose up to b went up there, left the gear down below. I'm under these trees and I had to take a peek, right, so I do that. I'm just butting it up my pants and buckling my belt buckle. When I was met with the loudest

and ferocious roar, I called her like a roaring scream. I was like a roaring bark, if you will, because it was like three seconds long, probably one hundred and twenty decibels. It was like the MGM lion on the start of movies if you have it cranked up to ten at the very end to just shut down and do a kind of thing at the end. That had a bark likes that. You don't see that on the MGM thing. But that thing was less than seventy five feet away from me. However,

it was hidden behind a headge of Alan Scotch Froom. It never showed itself, but it was there. It was about my ten o'clock and I'm telling you I didn't move for two minutes. In fact, I couldn't move for ten minutes. I've always heard that euphemism I'm being paralyzed with fear. Let me tell you something. It's real because part of me said, run for your life. The other part of me, which seems a lot more primal and probably smarter, said, if you want to live, don't move.

So I stood there. I don't think I blinked for a few minutes. I finally got the nerve to start back and down off that hill. That is probably the closest I've ever come to them. We talk about encounters, I've only had one visual encounter. I've never said anything different, But in pursuing these things, I've come much closer to them than I ever did back in ninety three, close enough to smell them on one occasion, for sure. I've heard the tree knocks. I've heard a tree being pushed,

a very large tree just being literally uprooted and thrown to the ground. I've heard their howls, as recently have October. In of all places Nebraska, I heard of more than one. I cannot attribute those downs to any known animal. Yeah, there's been a lot of things along the way that continue to inspire me and encourage me to keep doing what I'm doing. Tell us

about the encounter where you were close enough to smell it. I'm always curious about the smell because people think that something that is synonymous with these encounter stories. Actually, it's more like maybe ten to fifteen percent of the encounter stories I hear that people actually smell these things. So would you mind telling us about that time. Yeah. Over the years, I interviewed hundreds of people. Every so often you get that story about the smell. The descriptions are

very similar. Some might differ just a little bit and what they're trying to compare it to, but I want to stay. Two thousand and four, I got contacted by a gentleman who is a rock hound as a hobbyist.

As such, he knew going up this tributary to the Klacamus River, not as the Roaring River, the tributary that is, he knew about a mile upstream, in very rough country that there was a lava flow that crossed over the Roaring River, and the summer, when that water level dropped down and exposes lava flow, it embedded in that lava flow is what they call colmon

ople. So he would venture in there a few times during the summer and take his rock hammer and his chisel and his little collection bag, and he'd bring his dog with him, which is the Australian shepherd, a full grown Australian shepherd, and they'd hike back in there. He goes down there and start chipping out pieces of this common ople while was dogs just rolling around. He was doing that, one day his dog lit onto something started growling,

more growling than barking. This went on for several minutes to where this guy said, Okay, he's got a raccoon or porcupine or a squirrel. I don't know, but he's going to check it out. He put his hammer and chiseled down and walked up to where the dog was at. It was just standing there on this log with its nails just dug into this log, looking off into the woods. Well, he got up where the dog was, looking in the direction the dog was looking. In his word, he

ever said bigfoot. He said, I'm looking where my dog looking, and not very far away is a gorilla. I found this eighth standing up on two legs looking at my dog with a not very happy looked on its face. And with every breath it took as his eggtail, it was grunting. So he can imagine it's glaring at this dog and it's just them at that he shoves the dog off the log and runs for his life. This thing did something extraordinary, because ninety plus percent of these things, when they realize

the human has seen them, just simply get up and walk off. Not in this case. In this case, it actually chase make a great movie. But I can just imagine he's running over hill and dale there's no real set trail. They're jumping over logs and boulders, through these four foot high ferns and planting over their shoulder and this thing still chase moment must have been

a nightmare. They got to one point where you actually have to probably about an eighty foot spection above the river that you actually you have a a cliff that you have to work around. They stuffed just be where he got to that point, because then it gets a little harry as far as the traction going around the back cliff. They look back, they're looking for this thing. They didn't see it at first, finally catches a glimpse of it, and as soon as they locked eye, I did charge them a second time

and they scrambled around that cliff but never saw it again. He had us come in our seeing, me and a friend of mine about two weeks later, and we got into the site and sure enough, when we got there, here's hit us rock hammer, chrome, rock hammer and chisel and his election bag sitting there. So that kind of made me go, okay,

the thrill, but well, it was interesting. It was on our way back out because we took the same path going out as we did going in what was weird, really weird, was about ten minutes from where he had the sighting. Oh, by the way, we measured from where he was standing to where this gorilla was standing. It was forty seventeenth really close. We're going back the same route we had come in maybe forty five minutes earlier. We walked into a wall of smell, and by a wall of smell,

because you could smell a stunt that's been hit by a car. You can smell it an eighth of a mile away, and you'll smell it an eighth of a mile once you pass it. Right. There was no taper to this smell. There was no wow, I smell something and it's getting stronger. No, it was you were either in it or you were out of it. And you could literally step five feet out of it and not

smell anything, which was amazing because how the strength of that smell. You would assume you would smell it coming on a much earlier, but no, you take five steps and you're like felt like you were sotaking in that smell. And to me, it smelled like a dead carcass mixed with something else. But it was enough to make your eyes water almost think you want to throw up. You could walk through it, maybe thirty feet or so, you could walk back out of it within a few d not smell nothing.

So I don't understand it, but I can say forty five minutes third on the same route, there was nothing, absolutely nothing. Forty five minutes later, this powerful, pungent smell was there. I haven't spelled them, sense, I'd always said, after you're interviewing people, I wish I could spell that. Someday I could check that block, and I don't want to ever go back to again. It was absolutely right. Like you said, it's every once in a while somebody will tell you they smell the smell, and

I'm always curious as to how they describe it. Some people say it's like a rotting meat, sort of soul free at times, and then you get the skunk smell. I think people are just trying to describe it in the nomenclatures they know, right, Yeah, which leads to the question is this something they excrete on demand, and if so, what it's purpose or is it just something they smell like all the time, just based on all the interviews people haveing them fairly close to them and not smelling them. I think

it's something that they can physically generate. I think invite. We have a couple purposes. It might be a warning you're too close, or they might be able to actually utilize that and concert with other tag foot as a way to push animals towards other animals. They might be able to see them deer and maybe set up a picketed line of other animals that aren't excreting this and come up behind them and give them a shot of that, and that's going

to spend them right into the arms of these things. I don't know. Again, it's all speculation. You're right. You keep saying that you're right. We don't know. It's those questions that I want to answer. We can all theorize what what, but until we actually are able to study these

things, we're not going to have those answer. With the smell, I've asked that opinion of people numerous times, and I'd say, do you think it's an environmental thing, because it would make sense environmentally if you're in a swamp that you may get certain odors and things like that. But I tend to lean towards your theory on that it's something they secrete because out of all the sightings and all the encounters, again, it's probably i'd say maybe at

most twenty percent. I think that's really stretching it that people actually smell some sort of smell like that. So I think if it were environmental, I think we would have a higher percentage of that. You have to take it in context with the situation. We don't like stunks, for instance, can initiate that smell for defensive purposes. One on these think I've also considered that you're in a high stress situation. I've been in very high stress situations.

I've been shot at. Before you get auditory exclusion, it's that fight or flight thing, and that all your blood rushes to your core because you're in a fight. You don't hear things the same, you don't see things the same, you get tunnel vision, and you don't smell things the same.

So I've often thought maybe that's why a lot of people don't report the smell, because maybe they're smelling it, they just don't know because they're in one of those high stress sort of combat situations if you will with a ten foot eight, or maybe they're smelling their owns. If you're every one of those changes, shorts, moments, you can be smelled at all kinds of things.

Very good point, with all this speculation and all the things we're talking about, what for you has been some of the best evidence that you've ever seen, whether you've actually examined it or just something you've seen in a documentary or anything you consider to be quote unquote the best evidence to prove these things exist. Personally, I've seen tracked on numerous occasions. I've casted. I've not ever collected hair samples, but I've had a number of them sense to

me. I've had some of those analyzed, and stay tuned for more sasquatch out to see. We'll be right back after these messages. Some of them just conveniently disappeared, but the vocalizations I go back to a year and a half ago. I was contacted by a buddy of mine, Terry Raims,

who lives in Castle Rock, Washington. Somebody found out that he was involved in Bigfoot got in touch with them in that same town, and there were some folks who had just bought twenty acre property on the stream western edge of Castle Rock little Road called Gobbler's Golf. It was literally backed up. They were the last house on the road and they were backed up the power lines and trees as far as you could see going into the coast range. Terry

called me upus says, these people are scared to death. They have dean tracks. They had a pretty new orchard, I think it was apples an orchard, planted the handle ten foot high deer fencer around it. But they had found tracks around the out side of that orchard tense, and they'd been hearing these vocalizations, and they had a brand new baby, a newborn and a two year old. They called Arry to just get out here. We don't care what you do with it. We know what we're dealing with.

And he had gone out there once before. Then I joined him and his wife and we went out there. We set up some game cameras on the orchard one afternoon, and once we got those up and we told a lot of tracking around the property. Unfortunately, those tracks since washed out with the rain. But we're standing there after putting up a couple of trail cams. I don't know, two three o'clock in the afternoon, sat taking break. I'm sitting there at the tailgate of my truck and we hear this incredible howl.

Nothing hyoeder wolf like at all. Went on for almost ten seconds. Whatever it was had some law. I'm like, where's my taskam, where's my task GAM Just so your listeners, A TASKAM a little digital tape recorder. It's incredibly pensitive because of digital little record for three days straight, I'm like, where do I go? The taskamre up. I'm a scrambling and I thought it was just in my back back of the bed of my truck, and then I realized it was up in my cab. I ran up

to my cabin. I found it on the path of your seat, and I'm struggling to turn it on. And as I am, here comes the second time, maybe I don't know. Twenty five thirty seconds later. Of course, by the time I got task cam on, we never heard again, which is frustrating. But this is the broad daylight and it was coming from just on this hill, just above the house these folks lived in. We're looking at each other like rhetorically the year that you couldn't help it here

but most recently still I have difficulty wrapping my head around. But I would say the most recent encounter happened in October in Nebraska. I had met some gentlemen that's actually lived on the Omaha Reservation. They asked me to come out and help them do some cooking around because there were some places on the reservation where there were these large groves of rolling hills with these pretty thick groves of

hardwood's oak and maple and whatnot. So I got out there. I spent a week out there, and we didn't even really talk about going out, but that apparently was their planning, and they took me out. I've seen some by the way, I've been in touch with them over the internet for a couple of years, seen some of the videos. I didn't know what

to think of them. They sent me a couple of pictures, though they were convincing enough to me that it caused me to get on the next flight out there, get a hotel, rent a car, go visit them. But we went out Monday through Friday, so five nights, usually around midnight, to this very rural, very fluted area. No light, no street light, no trap, No, that's a little two lane road. I'm not sure I already even talked about this before publicly, but those videos of

his I saw suddenly started making sense. This gentlemen took me out to this place. The weird thing is, we never even left the road. We were like going back in the woods. We were in the woods, but we were parked alongside this road, and we walked across the road. We're literally standing on the fog line looking into the trees, and he would talk in his native language. They'd say, which means hello, gig hole, which means my friend. He'd say, okay, and my friend he's said

gigaha. He's come closer. And I'm looking into the dark trees, like what the hell he talking? And all of sudden, these lights show up in the wood, maybe a hundred yards away, maybe less, maybe a hundred feet away. I don't know. It's hard to tell depth perception when you're in the woods. Decides you don't know, come to light, you don't know how far away. I'm talking bright life to just blink off.

This is the kind of stuff that somebody told me. I would just file it away in though, okay, whatever, But to be there to see it with my own eyes was incredible. And I tell you, we saw that. We went out every night, five nights in a row, mostly to this place. One time we weren't getting any activity there and we just said, he said, I know another place I've also gotten this reaction, and it's way off the beaten path. I'm driving this rental car through a

four wheel drive area. I got to turn this thing in. I can hardly even see the road through the four foot high grass. You're still on the road. Can we get out there? And again he calls out to them and down the road, usually in a pair like eyes, occasionally a single light. And I don't know if they turn their head one direction or close one eye or what. But I'm watching this and I'm like, here's

the other thing. Again. I look at everything from the scientific, natural, biological perspective, and I might trying to wrap my head around this figure out what pretty much what else could this be. But I have to tell you there were some vocalizations that went along with it that pretty much convinced me of its origin. For instance, one was this very high pitched and this was on night one I should say day because it was like one in the

morning. But this high pitch hard to describe. Its almost like a song, and it would go on for live seconds and stop for five seconds and then again for five seconds, top for five or six seconds, and I get but I assume it was a female. But I was almost beautiful to hear. It was just this really high pitched in no way tyone's doing this, but it was just fascinating. Heard it four times that night, and

all within about a minute. I'll say another time. The one out there, my friend is happened to be a Latter Day Saint Mormon, very religious. We were out there, I think it was Wednesday night. We were not getting activity, and he turned to me and he said, hey, I'm going to try something. He says, I haven't done this for a while, but sometimes it works sometimes and get responses when I don't normally get responses. He said, thought, I want to stay a prayer with him.

I said okay. And he talked to them and he said in English, and he just says, hey, you go. I want to pray with you. I want to pray for you and your family's safety. I want you to be happy. I want to introduce you to my creator. If you want to feel free to come closer, I'd like to introduce you to my Savior. And then he bows his hid and starts praying any English.

So I bowed my head and we're sitting there. His prayer was probably a between two and three minutes, and about a minute into it, I get this from fairly close and then we're not seeing the eyes at this point, but I get this. It does this four times and I shut my head down. I waited for the finish, and when he finally did, I'm like, dude, was that dome? And he goes to ye And there were several situations like that. I went out during the day once because

before I went to meet it, the media welve. I hell with that. I'm going out eleven thirty and I'm going to check out this place with the tailor. I want to make sure there were no ambient lights, preet life's house lights or something in the background. But what I came to find out was the entire background behind where these things are was a hillside. Okay,

that covers that theory. And I walked up to the area where we've been seeing the lights on this ridge line and I set this tas cam down, turned it on, or so I thought I would find out later because I hadn't used it a while. You push it once for power, you have to push it the second time for the recording day effect. I pushed it once and oh the red lights on. Okay, I sent it down.

I'm kicking myself because as soon as I set that down and stood back up, here comes a little missing song off to my probably eleven o'clock or whatever, off to my left and starts doing this high pitched wailing or singing. And I'm like, oh my god, because I didn't expect them to be acting. Knowing they were active at two three in the morning, I didn't expect to be active or the day time. But I'm not only thinking they're active and they're walking me. I'm like, oh, I hope I

got that on tape right. I turned around. I started walking back to my car on the road, and I got about ten feet when I heard something like this but very loud. I guess tree knocks. I don't know, but it was loud. Sounds like wood on wood six loud knock. In less than five seconds. I couldn't believe the rapidness of the docks, but it was very It was just packed, and I'm like, okay,

I'm out of here. Didn't mean to bother you. So those are some of the things I have experiences of late Over the years, it's just been one thing after another. But every time I come back from the woods, I'd just come back more and more confidence that what I'm doing is the right thing. Just real quick, let's go back to the lights that you were seeing. Was that eye shine or were these eyes illuminating? What was that? That's why I'm saying, I can't grab my hand around And I actually

when I got back home, I started researching bioluminescence. And this is not eye reflection, not to be confused with eyes reflecting ambient light, like people even get red eye in pictures when the flash goes off, that kind of thing. No, this was self generated. It was in pitch black and we had no lights on. We were in pitch black. Whether it's eyes shine like they say, I mean, in my research, it sounds the feeding that of your eyes you're trying to see in the dark. To interject

light within your own eyes, it would just be self defeating. You know what I'm saying. You don't feel like blinding yourself with your own light, And like I said, I can't and I won't say what it is because I don't know what it is. All I know is when I've seen fireflies, you and bugs whatever you want to call and they look very bright, but they drift through the wood like humblebees. You can see them. We

don't have them here. I think you got it where you're at. I've seen it in Missouri and Arkansas and other places, but we don't have that kind of thing here. But I have seen them. But these lights were for the most part stationary, but occasionally they would jift to the left. They were moving, they would jift to the right. Sometimes they would back off, and other times it appeared they came forward. Oh here's the other thing. I had my Flear camera with me, which is the TK scout,

which isn't top of the line by any means. It has a limited range. But I put that up to my eye with my Flare camera. I didn't see any heat fingers at all. Now I don't get that other than I can say this, if you've ever used the Flare camera on a human dressed in heavy clothing, the only thing you're going to really get a heath fignature on is maybe the hands, or the faith or the head if

they're not wearing a hat, but otherwise it's looking for heat. I almost wonder if their very thick, heavy coat of hair doesn't play the same role with flair that wearing clothing does. In other words, the hair itself probably sayesn't transduct the heating to the ends of the hairtip, and it may be able to play the same role as clothing. In other words, it may block their heat signature. And that's just something I've recently thought about. I

don't know, man. I had my video camera on them, I had my cell phone on them. I've got video of this stuff. I can send you video where you'll see these things, and it's just really a cat and mouse game. They'll be there sometimes when you don't even ask him to, and then they disappear and then you call to them, or I started doing these calls that my friend was doing, talking in the Omaha land wuage. Other times, just like hey, come here. I was getting frustrated.

One time, I think it was probably on Thursday. I was there Monday through Fred out in the wood. At one time, my friends, let's go, it's getting late. I got to get back to the res or back to the town in the res because he had the COVID thing going on, and they were like locking it down at certain times anybody going in and out. The only reason we got out there after midnight was because of his position in the council. I didn't want to go. I finally said,

I turned on my flashlight. Shine it right hand. I'm hoping to see something. Would you believe with my very bright I don't know how many limits it is, but with my bright flashlight, narrow beam right on this eye shines that eye shine actually shined through and was brighter than my life. And I dare say they came closer when I put the light on it. In fact, at one point I hit the strobe option, which like flashes three times a second, and they came closer again, and then easily out

I go. And I went, ah, damn. But what I saw five nights in a row, in two different locations. I can almost guarantee you we could get on playing tomorrow and meat over there. I could take it this place and you're going to see this action. I can almost guarantee it. And I guarantee you're going to walk away scratch your head going. I don't know, I don't know whether I've just call it like I see it, and I saw it, and I filmed it and I heard it.

I'm more confused than one of it before I left to go there. Yep, it's the same thing when I talked to Ron, when he talks about this things that happened to him up at the Sierra camp, and Ron's had some really out there experiences. I'm in the flesh and blood, so I look at everything as far as evidence is concerned. If the evidence doesn't

make sense, then the hypothesis doesn't make sense. But when you have experiences like that, someone just like yourself who operates very much on the same premis as I do, when you have something like that, you scratch your head and you're like, what the hell did I just experience. I've always been open minded, but I'm even more open minded today than I was six months ago, based on some of the people that I've talked to and some of

the experiences they've had that well, nobody can explain. So I just stay honest about everything, and I try to relate it to other biological examples of our world. But my head keeps getting jacked open. I'm trying to press it cuts too much, but I'm not at a player where I'm going to start a flying paranormal things that no other animal can do. And it's not to say these things are unique and have their own unique capabilities, and frankly

I think they do. But I want to stay inside the box a little bit and just say, Okay, let's find another example of this nature before I go off on a tangent and trying to apply paranormal principles or anything like that. But I've seen things I can't explain enough. That's where I'll leave it. Yeah, it's fascinating. I often think we don't know enough about these things. It's like Doug Hichak says, he thinks these things may have

superabilities. That's his word for it, these superabilities that they might have. So what does supernatural mean. It means beyond what is natural that we know of. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But I don't have a problem saying it's supernatural because I know five thousand years ago the ability of a cat see in the dark wasn't know we were able to dissect that. I had realized it's got these optic nerves and these certain charecteric cloud see in the dark.

We didn't know two hundred years ago that acts or dolphins have echo location and they are literally blind as a back, but they can send through electric fields things that are out there. Ron's whole thing these days is that a physic. He wrote a book about the quantum Bigfoot, I have no run for many years that I've been in the field with them numerous times in different areas, pulling Bluff Creek with Peter Burn his description of quantum theory. He

said, at one time microwaves for quantum theory. They could mathematically calculate that such a field of sound energy exists before we even do it did, but they couldn't prove it until somebody's grilled cheese sandwich melted next to a radar and they fine tune it, and pretty much every kitchen's got one. So he's saying, what we're dealing with is one on physics. We have physical formulas that say certain things can happen, but we have yet to prove it.

He may be honest. It's like everything he explains makes perfect sense when it's coming out of Ron's mouth. I haven't experienced it. It's not my experience, but it makes sense When Ron says I think he may be onto something as well. You've got some projects that you're working on. What's going on now? You want to talk about projects first? I know Beachfoot's going on this year is definitely talk a little bit about that. Whichever one you'd like

to talk about first. I know we're running out of time. Let's talk about something that's already established. Beachfoot has been around for thirteen years. This year we're celebrating our fourteenth anniversary. The whole concept of Beachfoot with a brainch out of mind. When I got to meet all the four horses and when they were still living, Professor Grover Kraut, John Green, Renanda Hennon, and Peter Burr, who's the only living survivor of that group called the four

Horsemen of the Squadry. Fact. Peter's a very good friend of mine and lives just a couple hours away. We keep in touch quite often and they have gone on several expeditions together, but always seem to be some animosity between them. I like Renee, I like John. Neither one of them, like Peter and Grover, could give a crap. But I think a lot of us based on competition, which I think is a sad factor in big twitting, because I thought, gosh, if we could all just get along,

we all could just share. And between those four people there's over probably one hundred and fifty years collectively between them of research that has been held close to the vest I'm like, what would it be like to get these people in the same room at the same time. The brain trust of information would be phenomenal if it can only get them to relax and put their guard down

and talk. My initial thought was, oh, he would be like, get them all in the same room one time, and then maybe they'd get along if they really got time to get to know one another and put aside their differences. And then I just took at one worse step, but I said, I think would be better to get them all in one room at

the same time and try to make them get along. Is get them all around a big bonfire with an adult beverage in their hands for three or four days, let them really get to know each other, and I think in doing so we could get beyond these petty rivalries. So in two thousand and eight I did just that. I I had to put out a list of invitations and it was invitation only, and it still is to this day, which makes it unique in really all the conferences held around the country every year

in that it's exclusive. It's not open to the public, invitation only, just researchers. And I really considered a retreat, if you will, for researchers because it's in the camping environment. We've held at various locations long the Oregon coast, and that's why we call Beachwood. It's just the euphaistic way of combining the beach Bigfoot. It's amazing. It got to the point where we had people coming from all around the world, from New Zealand to England

and Russia, Australia and all across Canada the US. We limited at one hundred people and I'll tell you it's the only conference that I know of where speakers volunteer to speak and address what is basically their own constituents. They volunteer to come there and speak where they normally get paid to speak, and trust me, their travel expenses far outweighs the expense of the event, because in fact, we're a nonprofit and we don't expect to make money off the deal.

So we just basically put together a budget and we count heads and we just divided the tivy up and say it's going to be seventy five dollars for four days just to pay for the campground and whatnot. And it's the years. Sometimes we've got musical entertainments to come in. We actually extended it to a fort day just for travel purposes for people that were coming from long distances.

So this year is going to be June twenty fourth through the twenty seventh at River Edge CAMPRAU was ten acre campground that's private, so when we're there, we own the whole campground. We don't have to worry about competing with campers around us. Over the years, it has just evolved. Let's say it's taken on a life of its own. It's a very unique gathering. Pretty much everybody who's in it being big putting, has been there. We

have a Facebook page called Beach Foot. I encourage your listeners to go there because if you just go through the photo gallery, I think they'd be impressed with the people are there. Oh and I should mention too, if you go to YouTube and put in beach Foot, scroll down. There's a very special presentation that was put together friend of mine, Ricoriolo, who did a tenth anniversary documentary when we hit that ten year mark. It's extremely well done.

And I tell you, I tell people bring some popcorn and a box that's issues because you could just really pick up on the emotions when he goes around and says, what do you think, what's your impression of beach Foot? Some people literally just they get choked up. They're like, this is

the best thing. And I'm not bragging. They're like, I've been to a lot of conferences and this is the only one that we have this kind of open where you're hanging out with the researchers and you're sharing things openly, and then the bonfire starts at night and they hang out and people bring guitars and all kinds of things. We have a good time. So looking forward to that this year. So just to skip ahead to the projects, the

conservancy has four phases and we've actually crossed a couple of them. One is that well, I was employed, my wife's employed. We would spend weekends and sometimes with Dave vacations, spend week in our research areas locally. But I don't care if I had six months of leave shaved up in the army. They're not gonna let you walk off week here, maybe two weeks there. But today's one with these two of local research. Now that my wife and I are both retired, we've got much more time to get out and

do more long term research, so that we're doing that. Second phase was for a while my wife and I were living on a forty two foot motor yacht in the Columbia River near Portland. It's raided as a coastal cruiser, and we had planned to take it up to Canada and spend the entire summer up there once I retired. But a friend of mine got hold of that because it's in our brochures that we put together, and said, we need

to do this now. Explain to me this was a first nation, the Canadian bushman hunter pick but researcher, and he said they got to go now because coming out for the next few weeks or these flam tides, And for thousands of years, my people have been collecting clowns at this time of the year, and the bears get out there, the wolves get out there, they all dig this, slams up and eat them, and slams of cockles and mussels and whatnot, and I'm like, what are you giving me three

weeks? I said, I got to get together a team. I got to get together money. We need a boat, and he goes, don't worry about the boat. I can get us a boat. I got contacts up in Campbell River on Vancouver Island. If you work on the team and

the money, I'll get the boat. Okay. So, for the first time of my life, I did a go of fund me and then those three weeks we actually had over almost seven thousand dollars donated to three weeks, and a lot of it from complete strangers, but it pretty much covered the trip. We spent six days, five nights. It's on a fifty foot trawler up in an area called the broad And Archipelago, and we anchored off five different islands that were uninhabited, let me just say uninhabited by people.

We would come to find out they were very well inhabited by black bear, grizzly bear. Well, in one case we actually got I wouldn't say chased, but pursued by a grizzly. That's the story it itself. So we could check that block, even though it was long duration as I wanted to. But so our third phase is to do more long term studies out out in our research areas. We have a motor home we can use for the

base camp. We've got all kinds of toys. We actually got a snubbobial that I've taken out recently because that was one of the best formats for tracks. And our long term goal is to raise money to build a Bigfoot interpretive center up by where we live, which would be you've been to like all

are fast pro right, yep. I'm talking about a building of that size with the rock facide and the log structure, a nice big area where we would put together not just a museum, but in art gallery, an amphitheater outside, a theater, inside a conference room, laboratories, the classrooms, library of course, the gift shop and all that offices. And we're talking millions of dollar. Nothing like that's ever been done before, and I think

it would be very successful. And that's one of our projects right now. We's got a lot of irons in the fire. It sounds like it, man. I really appreciate your time. Like I said, I thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing the stories and I feel like we could talk for probably two more hours, so we would definitely have to have you back at some point in time. Oh. Absolutely, I can't. I can't, I can't