SO EP:602 Bigfoot Attacks A VW Bus!

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out here? Did you see what it was? It was enough here. Look, I'm new to the window now and I don't need anything. I don't want to go outside. Hello, hit the buddy out here?

poll on a topic. Put together the numbers on that. I did that. Of course, one of my topic was do you believe in Bigfoot? But do you believe in ghosts? Do you believe in UFOs? Quite a few other topics like that. That was the only kid that had that array of pulling questions. It was fascinating. I saw the in search of with the Leonard Nimoy, But in my mind it was like, there's the realm of possibility. It exists that I'd never see one in my life. They're

all in northern California or Washington State or Oregon. That was at least my viewpoint at that time. I wasn't even considering Arizona, although when I was in Boy Scouts, but there was always the legend of the Mogion Monster in Arizona. The Mogian Rim is this large escarpment that cuts pretty much the state in half. It's a twenty

to twenty five hundred foot rise in elevation sharply. There had been stories and legends from there about the Mogion Monster, right which it was great for telling around a campfire when you're in boy Scouts. That was about it. Nineteen eighty two, I'm up on the Rim. Everybody in Arizona just calls it the Rim, not mogianm I'm up on the Rim camping with two of my high school buddies. We had actually paddled across the lake up on the Rim, so we're camping on the far side, three guys in

a tent. We fished a little bit that evening and then took some dinner, and then about ten pm we went to bed. Three am in the morning, something howls unbelievably loud. You could just feel it in your chest. It sounded like it was one hundred yards away. If that pitch black darkness. Three guys roll out of the tent at three am trying to decide to just leave everything and get in the boat and go row across

the lake. We stood out there for a few minutes trying to set it, until finally we had convinced ourselves it must have been a large coyote. Maybe it was a wolf, but of course at that time the Mexican gray wolf hadn't been introduced to Arizonia. So went back to bed. Didn't think anything of that. Over time, I did plenty of hiking trips into wilderness areas, and there was always some odd things that happened at camp and

everything that was strange. Didn't really recognize that it was anything special, just unusual and took note of it, but shrugged it off and went about our way. Jump ahead to two thousand and eight. I'm sitting in my living room with my son watching TV. Messing with Sasquatch commercial comes on. It's the one where the Sasquatches walking alongside the road. They stopped the car and they're like, hey, buddy, want to ride. They keep teasing him until he tosses

one of the passenger out of the car. I start laughing my ass off because it was pretty funny. My son just sat there he's sixteen at the time. He's thirty three. Now, gosh, he's sitting there and didn't laugh. I said, how could you not be laughing? That was hilarious. He says, Dad, Bigfoot's not real. It's been proven not to be real. I said, really, you're sixteen years older, that jaded that something has to be reality in order

for you to take it even humorously. And how do you know that they're not I said, they've never been proven not real or not. He was like, oh, yeah, yes, it had, Yes it had. I said, okay, let's go online look and he was like, oh, the BBC ran a special on that that showed how they replicated it perfectly. So I found a website that actually showed the BBC recreation versus the Patterson Gimblin film. I could see the look on his face was like, that's not even close.

How can they say that they had replicated it? So I said, I'll tell you this. In nineteen eighty two, I tell him the story about this howl and he goes, come on, Dad in Arizona. I said, I don't know. There's always the legend of the Moogian Monster. I can't discount it. One way or the other until I, you know, kind of opened my eyes a little bit. So I googled Bigfoot Arizona. The very first website that came up was the BA website. We went out there and I saw, oh,

they've got reports by state. So the two of us sat there and reread through all the Arizona sightings, some of which are down in the desert, and I was like, wow, I never knew that there was these different reports. Then I saw a link to some audio and it was the Ohio howl that THEFRO had on the website. So I clicked on that. That was the second time that I heard that howl. The hairs stood up on my arms. He could see the look on my face, but it

was really an absolute auditory memory. He was taken back. Okay, maybe there was something to this. I said, look, there was an expedition coming up in three weeks. I said, look, you want to see if we can get involved in that open to the woods with some crazy people, and you and I will have a good time just camping by ourselves. But who knows, maybe we'll learn something, and who knows, maybe we'll even experience something. Right, And He's Okay,

So we registered went up on this expedition. So the very first night or afternoon actually Matt Moneymaker was leading that expedition. We get up there and the very first thing he's doing it tells us in the orientation session. He tells us that they're omnivores, right, And I remember in my mind, I'm thinking, oh, great, one's going to

grab my son. My wife will never forgive me. And of course in my mind I'm thinking like Harry and the Hendersons right, burrying deer heads in the backyard or something.

We go out that evening there had been a report that was really near where the expedition base camp had been reported not even four days prior, where a couple that had a van, their camping van attacked in the middle of the night where a large log had been thrown at it and it broke the side mirror on their camper and they ended up firing up the van and left all their stuff. So they reported this. We get over to that area. In fact, there was still broken mirror on the ground from the thing when we

get there. It was early evening. By the time we got there investigate the area, it gets pitch black, dark up there. Obviously it's a dense woods. We had a large group, about twenty people, and he splits us into two groups. One group goes to the west. The other group, which I was in, we went to the east. Matt does his howl that probably everybody's seen on finding Bigfoot. I had my recorder going thankfully at the time, but we had to walk about a quarter mile and the

pitch black darkness. Don't use any lights because they won't know you're there, So we're out there in the darkness. Matt howels. Probably within four seconds of him howling, a howl comes back from due north. About two seconds later another howl from the northwest, and then about maybe five to seven seconds after that, from the southwest, a distant

howl came in. So there was three howls for good and I got that all red forwarded and that was one of those Eureka moments where I was like, I need to figure out what's going on.

bottom of the canyon and across the meadow. We heard a couple of quick snap right, but we couldn't see anything. There was one person that had a thermal monocular. I think I had a night vision binocular. Didn't see anything, but about twenty minutes later, this kind of a red And everybody always says like they talk about eyeshine, They're like, I shine my flashlight at them, or my head lights hit. No,

I'm talking there was it pitch black darkness. Nobody has a light on, and it's only starlight now branded the star It was so clear outside you could actually see the Andromeda Galaxy with your naked eye, but I see this red glow, and about eight other people saw it. Wasn't a hallucination or anything, but you could see this

red glow. It wasn't bright, it was faint. It went from a reddish to an orange, little bitty yellow tinge to it, but it was bright enough to see it, and it was maybe I want to say, it's probably one hundred yards one hundred and twenty yards across this meadow at the other woodline, across the bottom of the canyon, and you could see this light, this reddish light that was very natural. The strangest part was that you could actually see leaves near the glow that were illuminated by

that red light. That made me go, how was that possible? And that's really how we end up using the scientific method, Right, we have to observe. Right, you make an observation.

them now that I built. It was a good time. I took my nephew, my daughter, my son. We all get up there. We got hiking the entire day. I got up very early in the morning, went hiking up and down the canyons. I picked the good locations I had put up some of the recorders. I think I had three at that time. Tried to triangulate him in this canyon that I was going to do. I figured we'd come back later that night to do research. And so we get back up there, getting sunset, and we

get back to camp. The kids are hungry. I cook some dinner based on BF standards. Right, you don't go out till after ten PM because they don't come out anyway. I'll get into more of my insights later. But you watched the movie on the DVD player in the vehicle, and then finally I'm like, okay, let's all head out, right, but we're driving back up to that location and my daughter's not feeling too good. So by the time we get to the location where I want to do some calls,

that was my initial thought. I get up there and my daughter's I'm not feeling that great, so she stays in the car. But she was worried about staying alone. My sons, I'll stay with her. The two of them stayed in the car. I take my twelve year old nephew out into the canyon. Run the side of a canyon. It's a ledge that juts out over the canyon a little bit. There was a really large, tall dead tree there, which has since toppled over over the years, but it

was perfectly hollow. And why that tree put out a great sound. So I was like, okay, and before I do a howl or anything, I'll knock first. So I knocked twice on the tree due west of us. Within I want to say, within ten seconds, there was a whoop that came back from that distance. I was like, wow, then, my nephews, are you going to whoop back? And I said, now I'm not. Let's just wait. We hang out there.

I'm telling him about the night vision monocular that he has giving him instructions on how to use it, and thinks it's the coolest thing ever. So after I don't know, it was probably like fifteen twenty minutes, I did another two knocks, and this time a whoop comes back, and it's probably a thousand feet away on the other side of the canyon. Nephew's like, whispers, are you going to knock back? I go, it knows exactly where we are. After another maybe five minutes, we start hearing rock clatter

coming down into the creek bed below. Because if something's coming down, everybody's heard that, you know, in the past I have said, oh, maybe that's an elk or a deer or whatever. They don't. Then you could hear something bushwhacking up the side of the canyon towards us. Then it stops. My nephew's looking through the nightsco tyrs turned on, so he's looking down there and he sees something go

like that. Now it's further down the hill, so you really couldn't make out the details, but you could see a motion of something just rocking out, rocking back. He gives me the scope. I would look. I see it do it a couple of times, and then after a little bit it stops doing it. You don't see it, but you could hear just ever so slightly perceptible twig

snaps and everything. Then later on I like to calling forest ninjas because I don't know how they can move through forrest litter like that and not make a lot of noise. It was coming closer, and then pretty soon it just stopped. We couldn't see it because of all the dense vegetation. There was a lot of locusts growing up. You just couldn't see through it. It was night vision only.

We stood there and I was trying to decide what should I do, And I remember everybody talked about how they liked to mirror you as you're walking down a trail or whatever. They'll just move along. And I said, I got an idea. Let's walk back to the car. Because we weren't like pointing. I wasn't like going, oh, it's right there. I wasn't making any sounds. We were just standing there and the two of us talking every once in a while, whispering. I said, let's just walk

back towards the car, pretend like we didn't see anything. Well, we're just going to head back to the car. When I tell you stop, as we're walking back towards the car, just stop dead in your tracks, right. So we start walking back towards the car, which was probably about one hundred and fifty feet away. Get a distance away, and I said stop. We stopped completely dead, and you could hear one extra step down below us, right. I was like, okay, it's following us. I said, now, do you remember when

we came out here during the daytime. You remember that section of woods where you can see all the way down to the creek bed. And he said, I remember that. And I said that's up ahead here, and I said, I'm going to be listening for any sounds in that opening where there's no vegetation. Keep the thermal camera pointed down with the infrared because at that time I suspected that they could see infrared, although that wasn't maybe proposed

around two thousand and seven two eight time frames. So I said, keep the r pointed down just in case. If I hear anything, I'll tell you. Now you just swing around and look back towards the canyon down in that open area. So we're walking along and then I hear one twig snap in that open area He turns and he looks, and here's this twelve year old who's been out the way was for fifty two minutes. He says, Yep, there it is. I said, what's it doing? And he

said looking at me. I said, give me the scope. So he hands me the scope and I could get it up to my eye just in time to see her take one last step before going behind a tree. I could see a left profile her left shoulder. Her arm had thrown back a little bit, so you could see a side view of a breast. She steps behind this tree, and she steps behind the tree. She grabs onto the side of the tree, so she's hanging on the tree like this. The hand is visible. Can't see

her at all. You could just see the hand. We were thirty feet away from that tree where she hid behind. You could see the hand that she had. That hand on the side of the tree. At least three minutes, and it was enough for my nephew and I passing the scope back and forth looking at it, and there was slight magnificently on the night vision scope. You could

see the fingernails. They were pretty rough. But the best part was that there was shorter hairs on the hand back of the hand, but you could actually see the longer hairs hanging down off of the forearm. There was just a slight breeze that night, and you could see the hairs on the forearm just waving in the air a little bit as she held that side of the tree. I don't think she realized the hand was visible. And then finally the hand came off the tree and then

couldn't see her anymore. But I assumed she was there because there was no crashing. So we actually sat down, tried talking a little bit, plack some rocks together. I was trying to get a reaction, didn't hear anything. After a while, I started getting that kind of being annoyed every noise in the forest, especially behind us up the canyon wall. Was starting to wear on me because I've

got my twelve year old nephew. If I thought my wife would kill me, my son was taken and eaten, boy my sister in law, I would have been in trouble there too. I decided let's pack it in for the night, so I just said bye. By the time, it felt really weird talking to the woods, but they're listening a lot, and walked back towards the car, so we get in the car. The moment we get in the car, my nephew on Cork's like a bottle of champagn runs on on telling my kids about what he

just saw. And then I wanted to know exactly what he saw, because I didn't see that initial look. And he said that as he swung around and looked, he only saw the face. He looked at the face, he didn't notice that there was breasts from a front end. She was facing directly towards him. He said. Her eyes got wide and mouth went a gate. Then turned around, but he said, didn't turn the head, turned to the body and looked behind her, like, oh, there's something behind

me that they're looking at. They didn't see me. How did they see me? They couldn't have seen me behind and then came back and looked right at him again. That's why I said, what's it doing? He said, looking at me, And that was about the time it turned back and was looking at him, and then it took the step over and went behind the tree. Later on we went back to the location because I was trying to figure out why she left that left hand sitting

on the side of the tree. The hillside was so sloped right there with the tree I'm standing behind there. I'm six five, so I was trying to recreate exactly where the hand was on the side of the tree. The very next day, I looked for hairs on the tree and all that kind of stuff. Didn't see any. But the hill was so slow that I couldn't stand behind that tree without having to hang on to the tree,

otherwise I would have fallen down the hill. The only thing I can figure out is that she actually just ended up taking a step to her right a little bit where there was a little less of an incline, and that's when the hand came off the tree. But where I put my hand on the tree, typically, if you were hanging onto a tree, you'd probably put it right about shoulder height right. You wouldn't typically raise your arm above your head in order to hang on to

that tree. Where the hand was on the tree was sixty nine inches off the ground from the base of the tree on the downhill side, So where I assumed her feet were, the hand was sixty nine inches off the ground. So in my estimation, she was probably about seven four to seven eight somewhere in that range. But yeah, my nephew just went into description. We get back to the campsite, he's still excited a little bit. We get into the tent to sleep at night, and suddenly it

settles in on him. He's like, what did I just see? And oh my god, is it coming to get me tonight. Yeah, so it was a rough night for him, but that was a pretty good trip. But he never went back out in the woods. My kids went a few more times with me, some of those camping trips. The next year in two thousand and nine. They actually we had two of them that were circling our tent about two thirty in the morning and whistling back and forth. My son actually was asleep, my daughter, two of us were

sitting up in the tent and listening to them. You could hear them move across and then wanted to whistle. No, it was really neat. You could just barely see your face in the tent. You could just see she's just, oh my gosh, I can't believe they're right here. So that was really my first sighting, really first experiences there.

the world. So there's a lot of forests. It's dense. There's areas that really haven't been logged, probably since the fifties. In fact, this area probably was logged in the early fifties heavily, so some of those trees are there's still some old growth ones in there, So they're probably anywhere from a seventy to one hundred and twenty year old pines in this area. In this area that I go to a lot, there's a really good mix of Douglas fur and ponderosa's, but there's also oak and aspen. Like

I said, about half of Arizona's pine forest. So I know everybody thinks the soorro this or sand dunes down by Yuma. But in Arizona, though I know that they live, they've found a way. Just like everybody says, how could they live in areas like Arizona or humans are living there right albeit maybe in the summertime we've got air conditioning. But down in the desert where I live, there's plenty of reservoirs and lakes throughout the desert areas of Arizona.

They have found away in order to live have family in those areas as well. See. So it was spring of twenty ten, so this area where I normally go, it's closed. Even right now. You can't get back in there because they get a lot of snow over the winter, and even after the snow starts to melt, the roads are just an absolute mud bog or a service doesn't want you going in there and ripping up all the roads.

They don't open it typically until middle of May, sometimes a little earlier, depends on when the last snow is now. We had snow here just a week ago and a lot of it, so I know we're probably looking at mid May again. This year, one of my fellow researchers got up there. They opened it up on a Monday. She and her boyfriend went up there to research in the canyons. They took their quads up into the canyon. At the bottom in the snow melt area. They find

maybe thirty footprints and they're all small. They're all seven to eight inch footprints all over the place, just amazing prints. There's one where the print sunk down probably a foot deep nine inches maybe deep into this mud. As the print went down in the toes, you could see the toe drags down the side, and then the toes grabbed at the bottom before pulling back out. So they cast about three or four of those prints, and they told me about it, and they said, oh my gosh, you

need to get up here and do some casting. And I said that I have to work. I looked at my schedule, and I was like, ooy, Wednesday, I shuk it. I could be a little sick on Wednesdays.

really remote. There's still snow on the ground that's melting. That water was thirty five degrees. There's no parent that I know of that would let kids. Not only that, but there was only one rack of quad tracks coming into that area and one going out. That was my friends just two days prior. Other than that, the snow had really erased everything from over the winter time. So I get into the canyon. As I'm walking, I walk down land on this meadow I hear what I think

is initially a woodpecker. So I hear this woodpecker, and every once in a while I would be like, let's square, Yeah, that's a woodpecker. I'm not the kind of guy that is every twig snap is a sasquatch. There's plenty of things in the woods that like to make noise, squirrels, dropping pine cones, et cetera. I'm walking along and all of a sudden, it does it again. God, that sounds just like a woodpecker, but it was a little different.

It did it again, did it again, I did it again, and then it got really agitated, and it just did it like fifty times in a row. Except this time I could actually hear what sounded like it was rock on rock stopped in my tracks. I was like, oh, my gosh, that has to be a sasquatch. I walk maybe another thirty feet up the canyon. It wasn't very long this daytime. Right rack this huge tree knock about one hundred feet in front of me. There was some

tree fall that was on the ground. It was like Douglas fur the branches that exploded, that's what it looked like up ahead. When this giant tree knock happens behind me, up ahead of me. All of a sudden, there is just such a commotion in all those branches. You could see something ran up the hill from the meadow area up that hill. It sounded like a vehicle driving up

the hill. It was a lot of crashing. I was stunned a little bit, but I went ahead and I looked at those branches and you could tell they were all placed in areas. It was all matted down where all these dougles fur boughs were all matted down, And it looked like there was three sleeping areas in all the branches. So I continued walking north up the canyon.

I got to the area where those footprints were. The prints had gotten a little more indistinct even two days later, so I don't know if there was extra snow melt in the meantime, but I couldn't pull a really good print out of those. So I ended up after a few attempts and made a bunch of pores and waited for everything to dry. I packed them all back out and I'm walking back up to my car in the canyon. By this time, the sun actually has come out a

little bit. It's actually turned into a little nicer day. But it's about maybe one thirty in the afternoon by this time. I get right to the fork in the canyon, and I couldn't remember if i'd come down right there or a little further up the canyon. So I get my GPS out and I'm trying to find the pin for my vehicle. As I'm waiting for the GPS to boot up up above me the rim of the canyon, I hear crash and I looked up there and I saw just a fraction of a glimpse of something move

behind some brush. So I stood there pondering. I was like, Okay, that could have been an elk or a deer. Okay, but if it's an elk or a deer, it would have just kept going, and I would have thought I would have heard more crashing if it wasn't it was a sasquatch going for cover. It probably still watching me right now. So I actually put everything down. I got my camera out, big SLR. I take the lens cap off of it. Now I wish everybody had told me at that time, don't point a camera at them, because

then they think it's a weapon. Right. So I've had my camera pointed with the lens up right near my shoulder, and I start walking in that direction towards where I last saw something go behind some brush. I started heading there, and I am almost right to the base of the hill where it's only one hundred feet above me on this slope. But it's still about one hundred feet above me. Just as I'm about to start heading up the hill, it comes bursting out of this brush and it's big.

It's eight foot tall with a brownish reddish hair. Now, I know there's some people that say they've seen them their hairs matted. This one now he did not. I only say he because just of the size. It was massive. He came running out of there. It was like zero to thirty miles an hour. The acceleration was insane. Not only that, but it was gliding smoothly across that ridgeline. The sun was shining behind from the west, just right over the ridge about one point thirty, so it was

back illuminating him as he ran. The only thing I always like to say the hair. As the hair moved, it blowed very naturally on It wasn't for you see a deer a bear run. You don't see hair flowing on it. The hair was flowing on it. I always joke it like LORI l commercial with the sweeping hair back lit, and that's how easily I could see it was. This red had a reddish tinge, brownish reddish tinge to it,

and ran across that ridge line. Granted there was a lot of trees up there, so as it ran you saw slices of it in between the trees, but back lit still based on the size and the speed that came out of there, I have my camera in my hand and it was one of those one one thousand where I'm just The first second was just like holy wrap, and then the second my brain says, lower the camera, take a picture, and I start lowering the camera and

by that time gone. It was that fast. I stood there catching my breath for a few seconds, and then I was like, I'm going to go up there, and I'll walk up the hill and see where it was. You could see the stride was over seventy two inches. It was like the prints were just way apart. I couldn't believe how fast, and you would think on that acceleration that it would just ripped up the forest litter. It really didn't. It was pretty impressive. I like to

record everything. You can't find me without a tape measure or a bag of castium materials somewhere on myself when I'm out in the woods. But it obviously has to be the right print. So that was my second sighting. That was pretty exciting. I ended up finding my vehicle and headed home that day. That was a day well spent. Plane hooky from work. My next encounter, I went to an area further east on the Mogian Rim, south of Sholo, Arizona.

There's a little town called Young Arizona, which is where the Pleasant Valley War was, which was actually a larger few than the famous Hatfields and McCoy's occurred in that valley and Pleasant Valley just north of there, about halfway up the rim, there was a location I was interested in because everybody was talking about how they were possibly living in caves. I was just by myself once again. I get up there and I start hiking around in

this area that has caved. It's right adjacent to the Indian reservation up there, the White Mountain Apache Indian Reservation. I get there, I walk along for I don't know, a couple hours just looking at things, and I get to this one area, one of the cave entrances that's up there. I find this rock that had been broken, and there's a lot of sandstone up there. This rock had been just smashed onto rock, and then something had taken one of the pieces of sandstone and scribbled with

it on the sandstone. Now I could have been like, oh okay, somebody else would have been up here whatever, But two days earlier there was a lot of rain. They probably got an inch rain there where this rock had been smashed. There was a lot of fine brains of that sandstone that were still right in that vicinity, which would have easily been washed away rainstorm. So I knew it was

within the last two days, right. So from there, I walked around all these boulders and rocks that were near that cave entrance, and I get down below it and I find this sixteen inch print, gorgeous print, five toes on it. It's about an inch deep into the forest forest and it's probably only two days old. Right, there's probably right after that rainstorm. Like, oh my gosh, I cannot believe I found a footprint, right, So I take my pack off, and I'm like, okay, i'll document it first,

so I'm taking photos. I get my tape measure out, I bet over. I'm taking photos of the print on the ground about the time I get the length down, and a couple extra photos. Photo of it without the tape measure in it, photo of the width across the ball of the foot and across the heel. And suddenly, as I'm bent over taking the last photo that I took, I hear this flood. The ground shook from it, and I jerked up just in time to see this rock that was about the size of my head bouncing down

about twenty feet away from me. But bouncing away from me, my brain is where the rock was rolling. My brain drew a line from the trajectory of that rock up to this hill, and that's where that rock rose to that cavern system. I could see one hundred and twenty feet away. There was nothing obstructing my view, but I didn't see anything there, so it had to be over the edge of that ridge. But that rock was at least twenty pounds. That's a pretty good throw. I've looked

up like Olympic shot putters, and no that's not happening. Now. Granted there was a drop in elevation from that height, but still where it actually landed was at least one hundred feet in the throw. I immediately packed up my stuff. I talked to the woods again. I said, sorry, I'll get out of here, walked back to the car. I was still probably about an hour into the hike, so it took me a while to get back to the car, and the whole time I'm thinking, am I being followed?

Am I going to get beaned in the head. Then I started getting to the realization that it could have just beamed me or thrown multiple rocks at me, even if the first rock was a miss, could have taken me out and didn't. So I was grateful for that obviously. So my third sighting was on a Bfurro expedition pastward now to twenty eleven. We went to a place actually west of the normal location, that western area where the rim extends and heads towards Sedona. Everybody's not familiar with Sedona.

Beautiful red rocks. Your brain just says, I can't believe what I'm seeing. When you're looking at Sedona, almost like staring at the Grand canyon. It's just like it does not compute anyway. So we have a pretty sizable group at this location on the western edge of the rim. This is a really interesting one. I don't think I've really talked about this too much, but you'll enjoy this. So we get bfo fashion, right, we split into three different groups, and we're going to do calls and knocks.

And if you can't tell, I have a very deep voice, so I'm a howl, or at least it was my excitement, right, And I led one of the groups to this far side of the canyon complex there. Then we're going to call back and forth to each other up there. So we get up there and we did some knocks back and forth, and then we did some whoops, and there was some howls back and forth, and we really didn't get any reaction from any of the inhabitants of the canyon,

but we did hear something crashing in the woods towards us. Now, there's a lot of treefall in that area wasn't cleared out pine needles that it could just be easily walked on quietly, right, So there was a lot of branches cracking and stuff, and we could hear it coming towards our group in the darkness, but we couldn't see anything on thermal. After a while, we gave up and we were like, Okay, we're done for the night. We're not

getting really any reaction. I think one our group said they thought they heard a response at one point, but it was pretty dead night. So I get back in my vehicle. I've got my little crew with me. By this time, after I had seen the hand on the side of the tree and I didn't have any way to record it with the night vision monocle, I actually had gone out and bought a flear for myself that could record, and later on I'll get into some of the downfalls of that one as well. But I've got

the thermal. You know, you can't look through a thermal while you're inside a car with the windows up. I rolled the windows down and I'm driving and it's pretty rough road in there. I've got a low four wheeling it up this road. The person in the back seat sitting right behind me, she's got the thermal. I'm just driving five seven, maybe ten miles an hour in the

flat areas. She's looking out that window. She sees a figure similar to your logo, standing in between two trees where the width of the shoulders was almost touching the trees, just thirty feet off the road. She sees it, and she goes, oh, my gosh. I was telling her. I was like, if you see something, push the record button on there. She was in the same vein of me holding a camera in my hand, and that for a second is just I can't believe it. And everybody is

why didn't you take it? Why don't you try it? But it's a little astonishing, but you're not expecting that. But she sees it, and then by the time she yells out, I mashed the brakes. I throw it in reverse, and I back up. I was maybe forty fifty feet past where she saw it. I back up. It's no longer there. The heat signature is not between those trees anymore. So a little disappointed, right, But we get back to camp. Now,

of course we've been making all kinds of noise. Right if it was my house, somebody is banging pots and pans out inside of my house, right, and then suddenly they settle in for the night. So we get back to camp. By the time we get back to camp, control in that campsite. We pull in and they're just they're doing like tree knocks, and I'm like, what are you guys doing.

It was really close to the campsite where everybody's around the campfire. Boom, everybody jumps, everybody's looking in that direction, and the one guy jumps up from the campsite and heads over to his vehicle, which was closest to where this knock occurred. As he's running up to his vehicle, this big branch gets thrown at him, doesn't hit him, but it hits his vehicle and bounces off. Because he

was just rounding his vehicle at the time. Immediately he puts on the brakes and he runs back to the campfire, which I don't recommend anybody charging at the Sasquatch, just let you know that. Of course, I'm just sitting around the campfire. I didn't bring any equipment with me, so my thermal's in my car. So I'm like, I'm going to go get my thermal. The expedition leader she had a thermal in her vehicle, which was on the other

side of the campsite. I get up and I start walking towards my vehicle, and I could see my tail lights glowing in the campfire lights from where I had parked. It was probably eighty ninety feet away from the campfire, away from where the knock had occurred. I'm walking towards my vehicle. Suddenly I'm in a completely different area. I have a lapse of time occurs. Instead of making a straight line like I was initially heading, I suddenly am off about forty five degrees. I'm just standing in front

of some bushes. When I wake up, total loss time. I have no idea how I got there, but still glow from the fire, and I turn and I see my vehicle, probably eighty feet trangulation away from me. I'm like, how did I walk? How did I I'm puzzled. Right, So I get over to the vehicle, I get my thermal, and I start walking back right about right in the middle. I end up meeting the woman who is running that expedition, and she's returning with her thermal. She had a similar incident.

She was walking straight line towards her vehicle and suddenly she was standing off in some bushes and had no idea where she was. Everyone else in the campfire area didn't have any missing time, except for one person sitting in a chair. He said he suddenly felt like he woke up and didn't know where he was. But even though he was still sitting in the same camp chair that he was in, that was an unusual experience. So

I fire up the thermal now. One of the guys in the group actually had rigged his suburban to have a commercial infrared light system, complete with the control board and everything that was inside of his suburban. It drilled holes through the roof of his suburban to mount all these cameras on top of it, so he had six

cameras mounted on it. He had it parked a little to the east of where the campfire was and a little to the north, so it was a good distance away from the campfire and pointed off into those woods where the big knock had occurred. So we start walking trying to look to see if we see any heat signatures to the north of the campsite where the knock

had occurred. We're looking and we finally find I see a heat signature, but it's right on the edge of a tree, and it just does this looks around the tree and you see the body swung out a little bit, so you could see from the head side of the head about half the head shoulder down to the waste where the other brush kind of obscured the bottom half.

So that was a thermal image. The problem was that the thermals, you know recorder that I have paid a lot of money for it, actually as it compresses the thermal image down onto the steep card. As it compresses, it loses detail. So all he is a heat signature on the side. Then it had ducked back behind the tree and we couldn't see it anymore. And I wouldn't

say duck slowly moved very methodical. However, this suburban that was rigged with infrared and had infrared spotlights on it, it actually recorded across that distance in the same area right after we had seen that thermal hit. It sees two subjects walking very faintly from that distance back heading up north into the woods, and then as they were walking, each of them turned their head and looked towards the camera.

Even though, like I said, you couldn't make out the thing, but you could see these big saucer eyes reflected in the infrared light as they walked. So it backs up the thermal hit as well having that image. But the next day, I actually knowing I needed to try to

scientifically figure out what the height was. Couldn't look at the thermal and figure it out because I wouldn't know exactly where I was standing, right, So I put a big rock where I had captured that image from, and then we recreated it the next day, and it turned out that the top of the head was seven foot seven inches. I count that as my third sighting, even though it wasn't as dramatic as the first two. For sure, on that same expedition we ended up finding an oak

tree that had a lot of acorns in it. Something had climbed up this oak and had stood on this one large branch and had been pulling acorns, the little small twigs the branches that had the acorns on it, but was twisting them and ripping them off and dropping them on the And that was a distance away in that same direction that the two subjects walked off in. It was a good expedition because one of the other people actually saw one. It had a daytime sighting in

that same canyon as well. I wasn't there for that because I was trying to figure out how tall the subject was in the thermple. Yeah, that was my third sighting and number four. It was twenty twelve. I had gone back to Iowa for a car show. I restore classic cars as well as a hobby. I had to just finish my car in the nicktime, loaded it on an enclosed trailer. The National Car Show was in Des Moines, Iowa. I had back to Des Moines unload the car, prep it to the show. It wins Best a Class, wins

a bunch of other awards. From there, I drove to Dubuque, Iowa, where my in laws lived at that time, and in fact they lived right near a forest preserve just to the south of Debute called the Minds of Spain. My brother in law, who lived in Cedar Rapids at that time, wasn't quite sure about this. He thought I was a little daft perhaps. So we were back there and I said, well, let's head into the mines of Spain at night. I didn't realize they were supposed to close the roads at

ten pm at night. I had all my equipment with me because I always carry it now because you never know. We had it down there. About eleven PM. I did a howl inside the in the mines of Spain. I got three distinct return calls, one of which I think came off of an island in the Mississippi River which adjoins this forest area. Another one came from the northwest up a creek called Catfish Creek, and then another one came from the west. And my brother in law stood

there in the pitch black darkness. I could just see the look on his face was like, oh my God. And then we hung out there another hour. Didn't hear anything else. That was it, But I think that convinced him. That was pretty convincing. Over the next week that I stayed in Debut, visiting the in laws and having the kids hang out with the Graham and Grandpa. It got

really warm there. Finally, day that we were leaving, he got up to one hundred and four degrees, which if you've ever been in Iowa when it's one hundred and four, look out. This was such July, like maybe July twenty first, I think of twenty twelve. I came up with this hypothesis, if it's one hundred and four, and I saw all kinds of kids out in creeks swimming and out down at the river swimming, and said, if we're hot, they're hot.

I think that they would risk coming out in daytime and getting into some water in order to cool down. I'm driving back. I've got the twenty four foot car trailer in tow behind me, My daughter's in the passenger seat, and it's just the two of us, and we're driving along, and I said, here's what I'm thinking. So she kept an eye every single farmhouse that we passed down that more rural road. We looked in their farm ponds see

if there was anything with farm ponds. Drove clear across Iowa, came out just a little north of des Moines on that road, and then picked up Interstate thirty five heading south. So we get through des Moines and then pretty soon the roads cross a lot of rivers and creeks. As you're going down I thirty five, I'm looking down every one of them, and boy, I tell you what a lot of the rivers and stuff all had people lined up on the shores and people were swimming. Everybody was

trying to cool off. But it's getting late, starting to get later in the day. We crossed into Missouri. By this time, my daughter is not being as eagle eyed as she was prior to Des Moines, but she's still looking out and glancing. We get just north of Bethany, Missouri. As we're driving Interstate thirty five, I see if there was all kinds of farm ponds in that area. But I look off to the west of I thirty five and here's this what looks like a mossy tree stump

in the middle of this farm pond, dead center. And the farm pond was actually a little below where the farmhouse was and stuff, and there was other trees nearby. As I drove past and I'm looking at this stump in the middle of the pond, trying to determine am I seeing what I'm seeing or am I just We always have the term stump squatch when you misidentify a stump sitting in the woods and you're like, oh, no,

it's a stump squatch. But I'm looking at this. And by this time, it's about six pm, so the sun's starting to get low in the sky, so it's shining through. And actually I was looking at your logo. It's actually pretty close to that, except that the water level was just below the crotch level. As I'm staring at this trying to discern what it is, it actually turns and

rotates and looks towards me. Now I'm driving sixty five miles an hour down Interstate thirty five, but it actually turned and you could see the sunlight in between its armpits, and you could see the hair was hanging down, and this one looked matted, but it was wet. You can see water dripping off of it as a turn, but you could see light just between the crotch where that was just above the water, and you could see the sunlight right through the pits, but the hands extended all

the way down into the water. Oh my gosh. My daughter turned back and looked we already passed, so she got to look backwards and she saw a stump in that lake, but she didn't see what I had witnessed when it actually turned and faced the road. Of course, when we got down and spent the night in Wichita. That evening, I went on Google Earth and looked at on Google Maps, and there was not a tree stump

in the middle of that one farm pond. That was my fourth siding, My fifth siding I had Actually in twenty ten, I travel a lot for work, so I'm in a lot of locations. In twenty ten, I had been in Atlanta. What I would normally do is look up any BFO sidings off your website and kind of say, Okay, what areas might I focus on If there's been a sighting in certain areas, or if there's been multiple sidings, even better, and I do a lot of research. I look at maps, and I look at details and creeks

and possible ways that they move in and out or habitat. Really, when twenty ten, I was like, okay, this area which was a Red Mountain Reservoir. It's northwest of Atlanta. I decided, since there had been two or three sidings in that area, I was like, I'll go up there and try. At that time, I had my thermal in twenty ten. I got up there. I saw a lot of deer. I didn't hear anything. I knocked, I did a couple howls.

Nothing didn't get into responses whatsoever. I got back to the hotel like two in the morning, and of course I was back at work at eight am. So fast forward now to twenty thirteen. I'm in Atlanta again on business. But one of my co workers he was fascinated. He really was interested in it, and his son was really excited to meet me and talk about it this subject. I met them for dinner and they had decided let's

go out. So I grow up to Kennesaw Mountain, had dinner with them, and then we went from there up to Mountain Reservoir. I figured, we'll give it another try. I literally went to the same location where I was before, because, like I said, doing the research, this area looks to be the best. Right we get up there, I'm not sure because it's an open area, there's no place we could do a knock. So he brings along a couple of pieces scraps to two by fours. Yeah, that'll work, right.

So we get there. We get into location at park. We hike in where I'm pretty sure this is a good area where I wasn't exactly where I wasn't twenty ten. I get up there and got the thermal running. I decide I'm not going to do a whoop this time or a howl. I'll just do two knocks. We do two knots with the two by fours clapping them together down below us, because we're almost on top of the hill, and then the hillside sloped down towards the reservoir down below.

There was no homes or anything that thisinity down below us about one hundred and fifty feet away, and there's a lot of brush in there. We did the knock, and then suddenly I could see a thermal image moving through some of that brush, and you couldn't make out what it was. It was moving back and forth. I passed the thermal in between my coworker and his son and they were looking there like, oh, yeah, I see that.

I don't know what that is. What is that they were whispering up there on this ridge, so I did one more knock, and when I didn't the extra knock, suddenly you could just see the top of a head above all the brush down there, So the thermal was much brighter that and then there was a tree, but it was turned out the next day when I drove all the way up there in order to do all my measurements and everything in the daylight, it was a black walnut tree. So those kind of grow up straight

and then they split. They have two branches that come up the sasquatch ends up. Tried to look over the brush to see what's going on, couldn't see anything. You could see it reach up and you could see live on the thermal, not compressed when it actually got onto the SD card. That's one of the issues. You almost have to have a DVR so it stores raw images

and that compressed them. But you can see the distinct differences in between the spacing in between the fingers as it reached up into that split in the black walnut and it pulled itself up and you could see it looking around.

then we didn't see it anymore. The next day I went back and that split in the tree where it just reached up and grabbed that was twelve feet off the ground, and then it just pulled itself up and you could see right foot and a half two feet off the ground. The bark in that black walnut had a little indentation into it where maybe the side of the foot kind of dug in a little bit into the bark, but it was apparent on the ground it had been collecting black walnuts that had fallen. This was

December twenty thirteen. That was my fifth sighting, so number six. My daughter was going to a northern Arizona University. It was like second week of May, which you'll recognize that timeframe, right, that's about the time that my research area opens up. I told her, I said, I'll drive up the flagstaff where Northern Arizona University is and load you up, unpack your dorm, and head back down to Phoenix. On the way up there, I decided I'll pull into my research area.

I down into the canyon, maybe spend a couple hours down there. And had a couple of delays that morning, so I got a late start. So I was like, okay, I'll have maybe an hour forty five minutes getting down to the canyon. So this time I brought along a small camp quarter, a little palm thing that has a flip screen on it. I parked and I found a game trail that I'd never taken before, and it ended up going straight along the eastern wall of the canyon

down onto this meadow area. The wind was blowing. It was still pretty cold out right there. Like I said, at that time of the year, there's still snow patches all over the place, and even the road, just the dirt road driving in there, there was no tracks, there was no truck tracks or anything. I was the first to lay some rubber on that. But I get down onto that game trail, and just before I get and

I'm thinking this is ideal. The wind's blowing west to east, so if there's anything in the canyon, it's not going to smell me. So just before I got out onto the meadow at the bottom of the canyon, I get my camera out, I flipped open the screen. I'm looking through it, and I started videotaping to the south in the canyon, which was where the game trail kind of entered the meadow, but it was completely obscured on the western side. Nothing could see me if it was in

the canyon. I take one step out onto the meadow and I'm looking to the south and I'm just scanning the trees over there, and I'm just holding it out in front of me right and out of the corner of my eye, I see some movement off to my right as I'm filming this direction. I turned my head to look over to see what motion I was seeing, and there's a male sasquatch crouched down, not a stump squatch. There was a fallen tree that's digging at the base of this tree and it was pulling things up. I

didn't know what and I stood there. I didn't whip the camera, but it's that one second, right, that one or two second pause where you're just but I'm still holding the camera out in front of me. I had turned my head and I'm looking right at it. As I'm staring at it digging, it looks right at me. I was one hundred and twenty feet away, but it's

staring right at me daytime, looking right at me. Our eyes locked for was probably only two seconds, maybe a second, but it seemed like forever because it's like that image

burned in my mind. It was down where its knees were like almost up to its shoulders right, and its butt was almost on the ground, so if you can picture that pose with that as he looked up, looked at me and then went without using hands, its legs came up out of that crouch position and jumped, and its first step was six feet away from where it was sitting now. As I saw that first step, that was about the time I started rotating the camera over

towards it. By its second step, it was into the brush. If they're in a hurry to get out of a place. It sounds like a vehicle driving through brush. It was just bam boom, crash boom. As I'm looking that direction, totally done that. You can hear crashing. As I'm filming now looking towards the west to the south where I had been initially looking, I could hear crashing going on there as well, at least two individuals. But this was the same exact area where I had my second site

as well. So I went down the canyon to the area where the snow melt had been where we had found Prince earlier. I couldn't find any prints there, so on the way back then I stopped and that's when I took the measurements and found that it was six foot stride. As it took off, it was pulling up small ferns were starting to come up. I know there's a name for them when they're small and cute curly,

and it was actually just eating those. So the one thing, and I state this because as it jumped up, stood up straight and jumped, I tell it was a male. I will tell you that they're not circumcised. It was a heck of a sighting. Like I said, I was maybe up there fifty minutes to an hour, got pick in the car and drove up Flagstaff. Spent the rest of the day loading up a dorm and moving it down to Fienix. But it was definitely a worthwhile stop for sure.

a little bit about the glowing red eyes that you saw. Sure, that is something that I've heard so many times from people that frankly, I used to scoff at it. I used to do the really loud eye roll in the back of my head when people would say, oh, oh yeah, it wasn't eyeshine. These were self illuminating eyes until I saw it myself last summer and it completely blew me away, and it changed my perspective immediately, because seeing truly is believing, absolutely.

So let's talk a little bit about that. It is something that I have went down the rabbit hole on since I had my experience last summer. It's something that it would be very unique in a number of ways if these creatures have that ability, or if that's something that their eyes do, because we don't have that as human beings. We don't have the mechanism to pay them loose at them or I'm sure there's a different pronunciation, but I say to pay them loose to them. We

don't have that. No great apes have that, So it would be unique in a number of ways. A sasquatch would have to exist. I know they do. You know they do because we've seen them. That's a tough place for a lot of people to even get. Okay, first of all, sasquatch has to exist, and then they have to have glowing eyes, which is just let's be real, it's just weird for something to have that. Then it would be unique to if these things are great apes, or if they're even closer to us, it would be

a unique human trait or a unique ape trait. It's completely subjective because I've seen it and I have no clue what it is. Do you have any theories or what do you think about the glowing red eyes in general?

Long Island was because of the red eyes. Other reports like that, because parentormal groups were like there was haunting red eyes looking at me out of the woods and so forth, and it was a ghost or a demon there. But okay, great, it wasn't neither of those. It was a sasquatch. So that's why I found them there. But since I had witnessed it twice, it was one of those things like how on earth can they do it? Because I know that they can see it incredibly well

at night. Right Obviously their eyes aren't glowing from inside, because otherwise you would lose night vision. I think they use it for silent communication if they're possibly hunting. I don't think they're using it to scare people off. I think it's a communication in between one another if they're trying to be really stealthy. That's my theory. At least, I think that it probably lends itself to just their

strategic intelligence. Right. If they know I'm going to be quiet, or I'm going to be noisy here, I'm going to drive dear this direction, I'll be noisy, they know they're smart. My theory is that we have a remnant of a third eyelid. If you look in the corner of your eye, if you were living in the woods for centuries, well over twenty thousand years, I think they have have a third eyelid that's actually developed so it can actually cover

their eyelids. Because if you're running through the woods at night, you don't want sticks poking you in the eye as you're running through the woods, right, So it makes sense that they're able to extend their third eyelid over their eye as they run out the eyeball looking in the face in the daylight, you could not see the whites on the outside. It was just like a dog eye, but even just deep I don't know, almost like it

was wearing goggles. So my theory is at least that that third eyelid can extend over the cornea, and the material in that third eyelid actually has a bioluminescent quality to it where they can actually by iluminescent that third eyelid. Now, the interesting thing was, I don't know if you've ever seen the video footage of the white sasquatch in Pennsylvania where the guy had gone out in his backyard because he heard some noise out there and then suddenly it turned.

You caught it on film. It was interesting because MK Davis did some analysis on that, and also Thinker Thunker did that when validated that the difference in the face structure was not human. MK Davis did a little more research. As that white sasquatch turns and starts running off, you actually can see a third eyelid starting to extend as it ticks off. When I saw that, I had already proposed this theory before, and I was like, there it

is right there. You can see the third eyelid extending. Now, whether or not it's bioluminescent or not, I have no way to prove or disprove that, but it makes sense. So, like we were saying before, if you've witnessed something right, So now I have to come up with an explanation of it. They're regular eyelid luminescence, because then they'd have their eyes closed. That wouldn't make sense. But the third eyelid, it certainly could do that. That's the only thing I can think of.

very little documentation until I had my experiences. Last summer, I was filming a documentary with a camera crew with me, yeah, and I don't think we caught what I saw on film right now. Fully, we got some things that are there, but not fully what I experienced and a couple of other people experienced on this trip in this expedition while we're from this documentary. So it's easy for people like us who've had those experiences, very close up experiences with

these creatures. I've been there as well. I don't have a photo to show for it, and that's one of the things that I wished I could convey to the people who roll their eyes. It's like you said, I've talked about this on the show before. I think even challenge folks. Go to the woods, take your kid, take your better half, whatever, walk along a trail and set them up behind a tree and tell them, hey, just step across the trail from one side to the other.

I'm not going to know where you are on the trail. I'm gonna have myself on in the hand and see if you can get a photo or a video of that quick encounter with your better half or your kid. I guarantee you you could do that ten times out of ten. Most of the time you're not going to have the presence of mind to get your phone in the position you could even have the camera open, because I've interviewed people that said I had my camera open and it was in my hand and I still didn't

get a shot of this thing. So that's one of the things that I like to try to put to rest as much as I can, because there will be people that listen to this and go, I had two cameras in his hand, where's the photographic evidence or where's the video? And that is why that happens. It's not an excuse at this point. It's not an excuse for people who have had those kind of encounters to come away and not have that. It is just the reality

of the situation. Like you said, it's very fast in most cases and shocking.

not to fight off your fight or flight reaction. And two everybody complains about blurry photos.

snapchat shot. Right. No, it doesn't happen that way. They're moving and they move fast, so even if you do get a shot off, they're going to be blurry because they're moving. They're cooking.

that Bigfoot podcast. We talked about it because he was showing some of the things that he thought were just completely unfakeable, unhoaxable footage of these creatures, and he was comparing some of the blurrier shot that people produce of these bigfoot or sasquatch creatures. Bob Gimlin showed where he had been to the zoo recently. He's over the enclosure where these gorillas are, and he's got a brand new

iPhone and he's trying to focus on these things. He took a series of photos of these two particular gorillas with a baby that he didn't even see at the time because his photo was so blurry. He said, look, I was trying, I was focused, I knew it was a gorilla. I'm at the zoo, I'm trying to take some really cool photos, and every single one I took turned out blurry. You think about just those conditions in and of itself, that's going to happen with these situations,

and cameras are set up, even your iPhones. Most cameras, they're designed to focus on what's closest to them. So if there's a leaf or a tree or a stick in between you and what you're trying to take a photo of that's going to be crisp and clear, and whatever's behind it is going to be blurry. So it's just the facts of it. And I'm certainly not trying to make any excuses for you, me or anybody else at this point. It is just the reality of what

we're dealing with. And it's easy for people who don't want to believe, or for people who want to cast aspersions on people who have encounters, to say you should have done this or you should have done that. The Monday morning quarterbacking. I'm just not there for it because I've had my own experiences and i know what it's like to be in that moment and the fear and

the adrenaline, all the things that are happening. It is almost impossible to get a photo or a video in the moment unless you've got camera set up behind you or whatever the case may be.

flip on night vision cameras. I made these what I called was IR bombs. They were remotely set off, so when the motion occurred, there was no ir and then suddenly, basically there's IR spotlights everywhere with the camera sprey on. Didn't catch a thing, nothing, So I gave up on all that. So when I go up camping now, I literally roll up by park A lot of times I start I impact things and almost instantly I'll hear like a rock clack or a ranch a tree strike close to camp,

and I'll say, hey, guys. They come in, and I enjoy that so much more than trying to trick them and try to get evidence. Initially, I was like, I need to prove this to everybody, and now I'm just like, if you want to join me, come on up and we'll hang out and you can interact with them. It's definitely interesting experience.