SO EP:583 Bigfoot Habituation

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out here? Did you see what it was? It was enough out here looking. I'm new to window now and I don't need anything. I don't want to go outside. Just fin Hello, hit the boddy out here? What went on out there? I've thought of a bit of about second nine. I don't know. Easy out there. Yeah, I'm walking right head.

bigfoot in Ownaby, Oklahoma. I researched everything I could find about. It seemed like this is a real event, it really happened. So I contacted some people and locals down there, and I went down there, talked to locals, police, sheriffs. There was a guy from Homeland Security there at the time. We went camping on an outing for another two nights. After I got down there, I was down there for three days. Southeast Oklahoma, that's like north of Beaver Bend,

outside of Big Cedar, Oklahoma. That's where most of the habituations are. My experience, in short, was basically walking along a tree line with a group of guys and we were all spread out and I could hear like the sound of branches breaking and heavy feet, rocks hitting the ground.

It backed away from there. On the experiences night after night as we were there over the three day period, we're pretty much supernatural. When we would go out walking along these other tree lines. This is just south of a big cedar, Oklahoma, in the middle of nowhere in the woods, you would see tree branches just bend over ninety degrees and then snap and then go back up

again when there's nothing there. I brought a buddy of mine, Mark with me down there to be a witness to experience this, and the whole night was nothing but almost like games of rock throwing, and these like tree branches being smashed lost in the distance, and you don't see any kind of creature there. They're like seemingly invisible. I don't know how else to describe it. If you can imagine like a bowl running through the woods. The damage it does you see, but the creature itself you don't.

That's what we experienced night after night, violent tree shaking, like we would approach a tree like a small pine, and it would shake just violently like this, like for ten seconds and then stop. So I don't know what they are, but Arla, the woman in a Flash of Beauty. I don't know if you've seen the documentary of Flash of Beauty, the woman Arlae is the one that took me into the woods, so I know her personally. I

have her email address and herself soone number. I can send it to you if you ever want to contact her. But she's the gateway to experience for whatever they are. They're not an ape. There's some kind of like shadow creature. They can move and be seen or be unseen, but when they're seen, they're just black. They're just like a dark, like super dark black shadow. We had night vision goggles one of the nice we were out there and you

could see them looking at you. They were peeking behind trees looking like this and trying to block themselves with a tree, and you could see a head come out and come back again. They seem to be as interested in us as we are them. I don't feel that they're a danger. That's my experience, and that was nearly ten years ago, and from then on I've done a little more research. The only conclusion I can come to is that there's like a scale of one to ten.

One being literally like a monkey that's digging in the trash, because there are plenty of reports of these creatures and trash cans. That's one of the most common. Actually, Then a ten being like a supernatural creature that can disappear into the wood and then reappears a black shadow, and then scale that up and down, and you find throughout reports all over the country, all over the world. That's what it's like. I don't know what else to say. There's a guy in Louisiana that was hiding in a

trash can loaded to the hilt with pistols. He was determined to kill the thing because he was going to prove it and he would see this what he described as an orangutang digging in the trash can every day. Outside of his house. He had some type small dumpster that he got inside of and jumped out. I've heard reports you wouldn't believe, but are incredibly believable. And these people were sincere. They don't have any reason to make

it up now. The Carol Johnston ordeal, I don't know if you know about Carol Johnson and what went down in Holden, Missouri is one of the more interesting investigations I've done lately. You can find it on Reddit. I wrote a page on it. The YouTube blanks are all there. Carol Johnson, Holden, Missouri, Bigfoot. Lock it up on the internet. You'll find it. There was a lot of responses on Reddit about it. I got threatened by the family to stay away from the property. It got really nasty and

wild for a moment, but no harm, no foul. We just investigated it. It was part of the William jeb Ming show It's a Creek Devil podcast. She was a guest on there, and I did some research and found out where she was living and where the property was. And here's what's interesting about it is I talked to the neighbors. One of them said, no, we've never seen any bigfoot here. Another property that was about two hundred

feet down the road around the corner. They run a plumbing company they called the phone number, and the woman answered, I think it's the wife of the plumber. They have a small farm there. I said, I know this is weird, but I have a question for you. Have you ever seen any bigfoot or sasquatch activity out here? And she

was silent for thirty seconds. She told me that her dad was working a job in North Kansas City and he was getting up at four in the morning to drive in and he had multiple sightings of these things running across the road, sometimes with small animals in their hands. She told me that to this day, they still have small calves and piglets and stuff that go missing, and

they just seemingly disappeared. If you were a crime scene investigator, just would really tell you something that there really was something going on the property. But it drove Carol Johnson and her mother completely insane. If you listen to their story, it is the most wild, burzure bigfoot story ever. It takes the cave man. This woman needs an Emmy if she's making this up. But they were completely terrorized by a couple of these creatures. And they were living down

in a creek behind their trailer in the woods. Eh, it's a hum dinger Man, it's something else. But fifteen years or so of investigating this, I looked for the what's the most sincere and believable situation? And when these people actually were driven out of their home by these creatures and they're claiming this, that's got to be looked into. I don't know what to think of it anymore, but

there's an extensive Reddit page on it. You can go read all about it in my report I made when I went out to the property.

trailer was. She was back on the William Jennings show again. At some point I actually met her in person. I looked up public records and found it that she was living in a home inside of Holding, Missouri, and so I went by and she was in the backyard. She was like water in her plants. And I walked up to her and I said, hey, I'm Dave. I heard your story on William Jebning and Creek Devil, and she just dropped the hose. It was like, my God, she

was staying and healthy. I really don't think she'sking it up. I don't know, but I met her in person. So they claim they were completely and totally driven out of their home and being terrorized by the creatures. There was at least two or three of them. Apparently a neighbor had a horse go missing. I don't know, but I talked to as many neighbors as I could to try to do as much research. But the plumbing company one

was that's something else. Man. You got two witnesses, you got people claiming that they see him running across the road at four o'clock in the morning. There's also a big fishery operation out there that's open. There's no fences or anything. So as far as the habituation site, it looked pretty good to me, Like, you know, something could definitely survive to live out there if it could eat raw fish and attack deer and steel piglets and stuff.

I mean, it's a believable habituation site. Now we did find a kill site, okay, So what they do is they get up in trees and they'll bait deer and then they'll fall through the tree and then crush the animal. So myself and my buddy Matteo, we have photograph of kill sites that we found where the legs have been just snapped in half. Is if you hit them with a hammer. And what they're doing is they're taking their heels and they're smashing the legs of the deer after

they come down, and so they can't run off. We think that they leave them there then come back and get them. But I have a I continue photographs of a pretty fresh kill site. You also rip the hide off all at once like this, and you always find the skin and then you find leg bounds that are just smashed the pieces and they pretty much eat the rest of the animal or it disappears, or you find that like deer skulls piled up in the woods. Ava, Missouri was interesting. There was a lot of rocks throwing

going on down there. You could hear creatures moving around, but not much else. It's one of the spookiest habituation sites I've been to in a long time. There's National Forest area that's closed off to the public down there. That's massive. It's six hundred some acres. I wonder why they were with the public in there. I drove around it completely and every cattle guard gate, everything is locked up and it's National Force. We're supposed to be able

to access that, but we can't get to it. I guess, you know. But like I said, I don't know exactly what they are. I just know what they do and what they don't. I've been on a few other podcasts about the possibility of capturing one. I have some ideas on doing that. It's basically setting up a small cabin that has a door that can lock and you can't get out of, that has a cage built inside of it, but they're pretty smart. They're not going to go into

something they think is knowingly a trap. But again, that scale of one to ten, we got creatures digging in dumpsters for food, and then they're also paranormal and can disappear. Wait a minute, there's got to be a scale of their capability or of a set of genes that's more advanced. Maybe I don't know. I don't know. Theories can just fly.

I have no idea, but I just know that's what years of research and listening to reports and talking to people that actually see these things claim to communicate with him. One of the most harrowing stories I've ever heard was a guy that was working in his garden down in southeast Oklahoma. He's a former arson investigator, and I interviewed him and he was crying with his wife sitting on the couch, telling the story about how this juvenile just

walked up to him and stuck its hand out. There was a family group that was watching it, and it turned and ran away. I don't know why this guy would make all this all. He's a former arson investigator for insurance company, he's retired, and he's just a gardener in Oklahoma. I witnessed this firsthand, talking to him in his home. Can we all be crazy? I don't think so. But we're dealing with a variation of some kind of some creatures that have paranormal capability of some kind, and

others that need to liberally dig in the dumpster. One of the most common sightings that I found around the Ownabee, Oklahoma area was near the trash dum.

I'm a pretty scientific guy. I take a scientific approach to everything. I'm an Ockham's razor kind of fella. Spent a lot of years in law enforcement, so my brain works very much like a cop still to this day. I got to see the evidence. I did have my experiences last year where I got to see these things multiple times over the course of a few days.

One of the weirdest things during that three day stretch was seeing glowing white eyes, two sets of glowing white eyes in the briddle of the woods. I can't tell you countless people have told me about self illuminating eyes that they've experienced in their encounters, and frankly, I thought they were full of shit. I really thought they were full of shit because I thought, how can these creatures have glowing eyes? And guess what I saw with my

own eyes, two sets of glowing white eyes. So there's something going on with these creatures that I haven't been able to put my finger on. I am a flesh and blood kind of guy, but I keep my mind open to those other experiences because I've learned over the last couple of years of doing this people that are out there like me who's very flesh and blood, my buddy Cliff Berrickman, very flesh and blood when it comes to research, Jeff Meldrum, all these scientific people who take

this kind of approach. Then you have the Tom Powells of the world, you have the late Henry Franzonis of the world, and these people that are way more open to the high strangeness part of these encounters. And I've found over the last couple of years it's the best approach for me is I keep going out and looking for these things in a flesh and blood way. I put up trail cams, I leave out audio recorders. I do all the things right that people do in bigfoot research.

I still beat on trees on occasion with my not but I also come together with these people like Tom Powell and some of these other folks that have a more high strangeness approach to these creatures because I think we learn from each other. We have a beer, we sit down and talk about what we think we know, and we learn from each other. So I am completely open to that. Here's the thing about habituation sites that I have found, and I want to ask you this

question because it seems like you deal with her. I have dealt with a lot of these over the last decade plus. My problem with habituation sites is the lack of are the appearance of a lack of evidence of their experiences. Pretty Much everybody's familiar with Janis Carter, the fifty years with Bigfoot Saga, her and Mary Green, their book they co authored, and all of the podcasts and things that have been done over the course of the

last probably ten years to document those encounters. But if you say, where's the evidence, Janis, there's a handful of photographs that are subjective. They are a paradolia at best in my opinion, and it seems to be very little. I've interviewed several people over the last couple of years that have habituation sites that I'll say, hey, you're baby sitting these things kids. Basically, there's situations where a ladies said they would bring their toddlers and they would play

in her backyard. You got to have photographs, You got to have video of this. Oh yeah, I've got tons. They send you thirty photos and every single one of them is a stick, leaf and a tree and it's all blurry. So I have never been able to fully vet and document what people have claimed to be a habituation site where they're coexisting with these creatures. How have

you found that in your research? Outside of having experiences there and just believing the person that you're talking to, have you seen evidence that has been presented to you by these people that claim to have these habituation sites that would convince you beyond a shadow of a doubt that their experience and what they say they are Yeah, I have.

you couldn't listen to all of them. I'll listen to a number of them, and the teeth chattering and the weird whistling and other types of stuff, definitely communicating. One of the weirdest ones was when we had regrouped, there was about five of us on would say probably Saturday

night when I was down there. We came upon this really dark ridge and got out of the truck and just walked up and silent and stood there, and it sounded like there was a dozen owls that coodd all at once, and owls don't typically travel in flocks, and we thought that was really odd, but it was all at once. It was easily like ten to twelve quote unquote owls, But we don't know what they are. It's paranormal. It's just out of the ordinary. You don't hear that

many owl who's all at once. That adds to the mystery. But that's the only thing I've seen other than walking up and having one try to speak to me. But again, I'm looking at a big, dark, black shadow. I'm like literally seven feet away from this saying and it's just completely blacked out, and I can hear it walking in front of me and going, oh like that. It sounded like what I said in the email, like Indian Chinese grunting. And that was my experience, But I've been fascinated with

the whole thing ever since having that happen. I think it changed me a little bit. It does something to your head. It makes you realize that there's another dimension out there that you don't see all the time. Sight and hearing is a very small part of the real spectrum. So there's easily seventy percent of other stuff going on that we can't see or hear. There could be lots

and things. I think one of the most fascinating paranormal things I've ever looked into is the you've probably seen the documentaries of In the nineteen eighties and nineties, people were taking VCR video recorders and putting them into mirrors, then using another camera looking into the mirror and creating this infinite loop type thing. What was coming out on the film was astonishing. There were pictures of people, locomotive trains, scribble marks and drawings and other words that were written

on the film. That stuff. To me, man, that was some of the most powerful paranormal evidence I've ever seen of anything in the world of complete paranormal. But anybody out there that listeners to look it up. I don't know why you could find a mirror shine VCR, but those tapes or those documentaries should be preserved so people can see that there was something very much truly going on. Bizarre, absolutely bizarre. I found that just absolutely fascinating.

she's doing with that evidence? Is it something that she's planning on making public or what is she doing as far as the research and her habituation area.

bring a gun? They knew he had a gun on him. That's exactly what you would expect. They warned us going in there, no cameras, no guns. They can see them, they know they're there. They're not going to come forward unless you're completely clean. But you've got nothing on you. They're right. They don't come out if you're armed, or does you have a camera, And that's part of the problem with trying to photograph something dark and black in the woods that doesn't come out. If you have a camera,

it won't come out, or to speak to you. Do They have an ability to see in the dark, and they can see you playing this day. I think at night. They're definitely mostly nocturnal, but there's spend plenty of daytime sightings. One of the most believable stories I've ever heard was a police officer that saw one picking up a dead deer on the highway down south of Ava, Missouri. I believe it man because there's sightings down there are dick there.

They go back literally one hundred years of people reporting swamp creature, this or whatever. I thought it was a bear, it wasn't. Yeah, there's some pretty compelling stories. But where's

all the photographs in these days with cameras. I heard there was a researcher that gave a group of Native Americans up in Northern Canada a bunch of go pros recently, thats been the news a little bit i'd heard or it been done again, you know, trying to get them to get like really solid evidence of these things, you know, coming up on you. But yeah, it's a really good question. Where are the photos? I sure didn't get any.

But this kid, Bob Gimlin's YouTube channel, he did a video recently where he was talking about he showed some I think it was three or four pictures and videos that he claims are pretty much hard to if not impossible, for people to hoax or fake that look to be sasquatch caught on camera, whether it be a still or

a video. He had a portion of this video where he went to the local zoo and there's several gorillas in this enclosure and he's looking down on him, and he's taking a photo with his iPhone, a newer iPhone, plain beautiful, crisp day, and his photos are blurry. He's in a controlled environment, looking at a controlled situation with a known creature, and the photo is still blurry. Several photos were blurry, even to the point where there was one he had to circle. I missed there was a

baby right next to the mama. I didn't see it because it was so blurry. Had to circle it, and then I was like, oh, that's a baby gorilla. So I get why there's not good evidence when people have such quick encounters. Again, it goes back to the habituation sites. I think that's a little bit different if you're constantly interacting with these things and they trust you. I've heard it from people who have these kind of co existence

habituation situations that they won't let you film them. That's part of the relationship I guess, for lack of a better word, that they have built with these creatures. So it's a catch twenty two for people who want proof to say, yeah, this is probably the best place to get it, but because because of the way that it's

set up, we may never get that. And it's the same thing with the difference for me between these things being flesh and blood and having some sort of extra abilities or superabilities that they might possess versus them just

being something that's completely in the paranormal realm. Let me ask you in your opinion in your research when you started out some fifteen years ago, were you firmly planted in a camp of flesh and blood or you always straddle in that fence, and how if that's changed for you over the years, how has that changed and how do you now look at that Because as an investigator, for me, I have to look for a flesh and blood creature otherwise I wouldn't even know how to approach

this and try to get some sort of proof that they exist for other people who haven't seen them. So how do you deal with that in your approach to your research? Then and now?

We need to figure out what's going on and where this thing's from, and if that needs to be done, if we need to bag one, capture it, by whatever we need to do it. I'm a firm believer that the mining and logging industries are the ones behind most of the cover up for sasquatch, because if you can imagine what would happen if a primate was discovered in North America, what that would do to logging and mining.

It would be a disaster for them. So I think there's army units that have been used to kill off family groups. I'm pretty sure what the people I've talked to. I'm a big fan flesh and blood because of the boots on the ground research that I've done where I've gone to these places and talking to these people that would seem this kind of stuff involved. In Tauston, Mexico, I saw a body bag and flown from a helicopter that was wrapped in black plastic. That was huge. Just

fly into the sky. What's that? What are they doing? I've heard of army units in that area in New Mexico that have actually shot and killed family groups. Sheriff's officers that have seen the Departments of Land Management, federal bureaus showing up where there's been sightings, and these are believable people. Man, they're not making this up. But you don't photograph that kind of thing. You don't photograph a phone called that says, hey, this is the Federal Bureau

of Investigation. We're coming into your office and they're talking about the sighting of some aep looking creature. And then some BLM bureaucrats come in and they show up and then they wipe the place clean and then they leave. What goes on with that, because I've heard lots of reports of that kind of stuff. Go on and talk to real people that have been former police officers or

people that have been interviewed. Miguel with Sasquatch theory has found some real treasures of people that have come forward and told their stories. He had one guest on that was absolutely hilarious, but he was telling you that he would see this. He was this guy living in the woods by himself, and the thing was coming up to the house and Miguel asked him, he said, what time of night was it? He said, Oh, it was about bedtime.

That's so genuine you couldn't possibly make that up because that's such a backwoods hill billy respella of what time was it? It was bed by, not eight o'clock, nine o'clock. They don't have clocks, So that really rang a bell of genuine sighting someone who had actually seen one of these things, because only hill billy big that was really living in the woods would answer a question like that. That was solid core evidence to me. Man. But Za's watch theory has done a lot of good le's kicking along.

It's got a pretty good following, and it's got some pretty down genuine people that come on there.

deer stand. I've said this so many times because if we exclude those really out there encounters where people say that they see them often or all the time, or they're getting really close to them, I think there's something to be gleaned from that. Every encounter, in my opinion, has some data to be mined.

to so many people, what's your favorite encounter story? They're all my favorites for one reason or the other, but I tend to remember those that have some unique aspect to them, whether it was a really scary encounter, they got really close, they were threatened, or there was some

weird thing that you don't normally hear about. And one of those things that came up for me last year, I think it was, is I had Shane Carpenter and Randy Harrington on the show they investigate out of the four hundred, and Shane shared with me behind the scenes, and then it ended up making it into the show about them finding these holes. They're four to six inches,

sometimes a little bit bigger. They're six to eight inches down in the ground in their research area, and sometimes they're finding the sticks that they think the sasquatch are using to dig these holes. And it was confirmed for Shane when he traveled to another nearby state and went out with a couple of investigators and he saw one of the very same holes with a stick sticking out

of it, and Shane's what's up with this hole? And they go into this conversation and the guy says, Yeah, we've been finding these and we have no idea what to make of it. So Shane starting to really get into that and look into.

and I thought that was interesting. And I can't remember which guy I talked to, but he was from Levenworth, Kansas and he was part of that Back four hundred group that was going down there to that site, and I thought that was really clever to do that and get documentation or video of the rocks actually being thrown back into the cam and.

that's pretty compelling, man. And like I said, if you were looking at this like a crime scene and looking for a murder suspect and they said they'd seen the same guy there at four o'clock in the morning, you'd be starting making the rest so you'd figure out who it was. Yeah, this is just logic, man, And I'm trying to bring a lot of logic tudents to try to figure out what exactly they are. It would be great to be able to communicate with them at some

point and just try to explain. Can you explain yourself? Like in Oklahoma, they're clearly highly intelligent. They can choose whether you see them or not. That guy's story that with the dark shadowed creatures that he's dead on man, he's not making that up. That's exactly what I saw. So there, I've got two witnesses right there for you. For southeast Oklahoma around the Big Seer area. They do

like to travel on power lines. We think that they run deer, they chase it out of the woods and they run it up through power lines and then they chase them down or divert them and crush them. Because we have followed power lines down in all kinds of forested area throughout Missouri and in Colorado, especially east of Pike's Pe. So we've got dozens of kill site bone fragments, so we can send you of what's exactly what they do. They stomp their legs and break their legs so they

can't run away. Coyotes don't do that, they just don't. They too and they leave teeth marks and they drag stuff off, but they don't snap bones long wise severe violent nap legs. So I got about a dozen photographs of the last one I found. I'll definitely get them to you.

you're in. I want to know everything about what they are, why we can't find them more often than we do. What are these superabilities? All those things?

the whole idea of the Pendeck theory. When Vietnam and Indonesia, I think that there's going to be some really compelling stuff that comes out of there, that there is some other type of orangutang like primate that's humanoid in some way. I think you're going to see some really good photos. So I've heard from their great mind that there's some pretty incredible photographs and encounters that have been captured down there. But these people don't post that stuff online. Man, they

lock it up. They freak out. They think that it's worth a million dollars, and they're paranoid, and they put it in a storage unit and then they stop paying on it. There's all kinds of weird stuff in the bigfoot world. People really get freaked out when they have good evidence or photographs, and I think that's part of the problem, is that there's a paranoia of money around it, that it could be worth a million dollars or it's like a lot tickets that are blowing in the wind.

So it's the holy grail of cryptology to prove it once and for all. I talked to Adrian ericson. I don't know how you feel about the Matilda ordeal and what that was all about. But she's a pretty genuine guy. I've met with him. I don't see why he would fake that kind of evidence.

I'm talking seventy eighty foot tall, fourteen sixteen inch round trees propped up on other trees, and weird configurations, just some really weird stuff that I considered to be bigfoot activity. I don't know what else would have been throwing rocks at us. Todd was sitting next to me talking when we were getting rocks thrown at us. I know it wasn't Todd. We were eighteen miles deep in the wood, so nobody else was out there with us. It had

to be a Sasquatch. And I know the samurai chatter happened while we were sitting around the fire and Todd was talking. He was literally in mid sentence, and three of us heard it like thirty feet away from us. So we had experiences up there. But yeah, I think I wondered the motivations for people to hoax things. I used to say, why in the world would you do that? And I think people do it for a far less

than money. Honestly, the motivations for people to do some of the things they've done over the years never ceases to amaze me. But I think you'd be surprised when it comes down to it, why somebody like that might fake Matilda and think there was a million dollars to be gleaned from an investment of half a million or whatever.

people and Biscardi was there. Now, if you look into the background of Matthew Witten, this proves that somehow, some experts or somebody in the federal government I'm probably a three letter acronym agency of some kind got involved in this and swapped out the real body for a fake guerrillas suit with raccoon guts in it. And here's why, Because nobody ever looked into Matthew Witten and what happened and how he found it. Matthew Witten found a real

dead body. I know he did I know for a fact he did, because about two weeks before he found that dead body, there was an article about a robbery that happened at a convenience store. Matthew Witton was shot like three or four times. He was a hero police officer that was involved in a gun battle with a

guy robbing like a quick shot in Georgia. So if you look in the CNN footage of Matthew Witton when he's up on stage, if it's still somewhere online, you can see his arm as in traction and his fingers have wires coming back on it because he took gunfire to his front of his fist and his arm and it tore through the cartilage and he was firing back and guarding his face from the gunfire. His arm was all shredded up from the gunfire from the guy robbing

the quick shot. He was involved in this incident. He was on leave from the police department, on paid leave for being a hero, needing to get off the job for a while, so he couldn't drive, and he couldn't use his right hand. You can see it in the video and seeing Emmy's intraction in his right hand. His jackets covering up his cast he's got with his arm bend. Why in the hell would an honored serviceman, policeman on leave after getting shot in the line of duty fabricate

a story like this. There is no fucking way. There's no way that guy, after that event, in living through it, would just decide, Oh, I'm gonna hoast the whole world and fake and I've got a fake bigfoot body. No, he found a real body, and he went back and he got some help and they loaded him into the back of a truck. On paid leave after being shot in the line. I just don't see. That's not the mentality of a hero police officer whatsoever to do something and fake that. There's no way.