Today, I want to tell you about a journey that I've been on for most of my life. Ever since I was a kid, I've heard tales of bigfoot and wild men while spending time with my friends and family. As I grew older and read more about the paranormal, my interest in encryptids and other things strange only deepened. That's why I'm so excited to share with you what
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Hey everybody, this is Left Striving Yes, yes, I know aka Survivor Man and you're listening to Brian on Sasquatch Odissey.
Hey Dre and welcome back to Sasquatch Odissey. Thank you so much for being with us for the show. It is Friday. I hope you've had a fantastic a week. We have an amazing guest lined up, but as always, I want to start by inviting you. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email you get me a Brian a Paranormal Worldproductions dot com and head over to the website. Check it out, become a member there and help support
the show. I got to sit down and talk to Christopher Noel, probably best known infamously or famously for his thermal footage of what he believes to be a sasquatch that most of you guys would probably know as the Chris Noel Porcupine video. We certainly get into that during this interview. We talk about his sasquatch autistic savant hypothesis. We get into that we talk about all kinds of things. That was a really cool conversation. I think you guys are really going to enjoy it. We talk about this
several times during the interview. If you want to see any of the videos that Chris and I are referencing, I'm going to link to those on the blog. So head over to Paranormalworldproductions dot com check out the sasquatch out to see blog at the top of the page, and you can see what Chris and I are talking about, including his original video that appears in his documentary, as well as some of the breakdowns and enhancements that he's
done that we refer to during the interview. So make sure you head over to the blog and check those out well. Without further ado, I know you guys are ready to get into it. Chris is on the line, He's ready to go. All this left for you to do is sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. Harford was on to welcome our guest to the show. It is Christopher Noel, author and researcher. Welcome to the show, my friend. Hey, thanks great to be here. I am
so glad to have you. I've been stoked about this conversation. Let's get right into it. Let's talk about this bigfoot thing. Let's start where I start with most people, what guy you interested in the subject to begin with?
But Boring answered because I didn't have an experience or anything. It was that, like most people, I saw the Patterson film when I was nine or ten. It was I think, like a trailer or a little featurette before the regular movie in a theater. I think they used to have little movies before the movie, whether it's a cartoon or something else, and I think that's how I saw it, and I immediately was struck by how it didn't seem to walk like a human being. Ninety percent like a
human being, but not quite so. My imagination was captivated at that point. For many years, Like most people, I didn't know how I could pursue this fascination. I thought you just had to be lucky have one a cross in front of you as you drove down the road at two in the morning. I didn't know there was any systematic way to go about researching the species until two thousand and five, when I saw that the BFRO was running expeditions open to the public, and I thought,
Holy smokes. Somebody's doing this. Somebody actually figure out how you can try to have an interaction with this creature. So I signed right up and I went out with those guys, and for the next year and a half I went on I think it was six or seven expeditions all over the country, completely blowing out my bank
account and alienating my then fiance. I didn't have any fantastic encounters, just a few wood knocks, so it was disappointing in that respect, but it was a rich experience in terms of networking with people who had been researching the species for many years before me and could bring me along and mentor me into how to think of it, how to go about looking forward to my own home area. Just sitting around the campfire and hearing their stories their
accounts was just worth the price of admission. People have different views on the BFRO, but Matt Moneymaker was extremely good to me from the beginning, and he was like an evangelist for the topic, and it got me entirely converted for the rest of my life. Died in a wool Sasquat's Researcher, which there's a bunch of us, but it's really still a very strange thing to be in the world at large. That was me like eighteen years ago. What is it now, twenty twenty four, So this was
nineteen years ago. I've been added ever since. Part of what I learned on those expeditions back then was that there was another category, another avenue toward learning about the species that wasn't simply going to places with a long history of sightings and just taking stabs in the dark by going out late at night making Woolf's howels and woodknocks.
Though that can work if you want the thrill of getting a response and knowing that they're out there someplace unseen in the pitch dark, which is exciting enough in its own right. But I learned that there were these places called habituation sites, and I started to network online. There were some early versions of chat rooms and eventually some websites that were talking about this.
So I made.
Nice with a lot of people who were experiencing repeat visitations and ongoing interactions at their property with their own local sasquatch groups. I became pen pals with all of these folks and eventually visited a few of them. They generously contributed their testimonials to one of my early books called Our Life with Bigfoot, contained six different families, in
one case an individual. Five others aren't families who had these experiences of becoming less habituating, which in the sense of Jane Goodall or Diane Fosse you might remember your listeners will remember that they, through persistence and routine behavior and predictable behavior and peaceful vibes, were able to help their primate subjects to become less afraid of their presence.
That's all.
Habituation is just becoming more used to each other. So at these habituation sites, the families that many cases were initially freaked out would eventually calm down. Sometimes these sightings interactions middle of the night, slapping of the house, tapping on the windows became more commonplace and less of a
source of upset and destabilization. These folks would see this ask which almost like ninety eight percent of the time only at night in the moonlight, hiding behind a tree, peeking out, running across the yard, making the automatic floodlights come on. But by the time you looked out the window, they were gone, or you catch the very tail end of their appearance in the yard, and almost never in daytime, except sometimes in the daytime. So I began focusing on
habituation sites instead of going on expeditions. And I learned that right here in Vermont, just two miles from where I grew up, there were structures, footprints. I would leave an audio recorder out and get all sorts of wood knocks and occasional vocalizations. It was right in my backyard, which is what a lot of people find, like Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz, I forget exactly what she says at the end of that in your own backyard
after all. So it was a big full circle going from Vermont to expeditions in Florida, Northern California in the Redwood Forest, Arizona, and Pennsylvania, then landing back my own old stuf umping grounds since childhood, and realizing that it was a rich treasure trove of experiences and research to be done right here. That's a long winded answervere.
Quick, let's talk about some of those experiences that you were having. I certainly want to get into the habituation stuff. It's something that's been fascinating to me since I got into the subject decades ago. I definitely want to go into some of those stories, but let's talk about some of those early experiences that you were having personally when you got out in the woods and started looking for these things.
I've never seen one with my eyeballs. I've only filmed them twice with a camera at night. One was at one of these habituation sites in East Texas.
I have a thermal video.
That I managed to capture there, called the Woodpile Sasquatch video that's available on YouTube. So this wasn't in Vermont, but it's an experience. It's the first dramatic personal experience I was lucky enough to have. It was in East Texas, at the home of this woman who had been seeing a sasquatch on her property for fifteen years before that kids had seen them more than she had, and she never quite believed them until one night she saw them.
Often is the case, because they're a bit less inhibited with children. She and I and her daughter's friend, who had a big bonfire going, were roasting marshmallows and hot dogs. I had a thermal camera and every now and then I would go out past the firelight and scan the woodline close by. I was looking for enormous upright figures
heat signatures peeking out from behind a tree. Instead what I saw at the time, but I didn't register it for what It was a horizontal low to the ground, a horizontal up sort of bar of light slashed heat. I thought there's probably a stone or retaining heat from the day, bar of metal or something, so I didn't go over to it. I was about thirty five feet away from it. Sure enough, when I got back to Vermont and looked through the footage, it's an arm with
a hand at the end of it. It's sort of flicking. The hand flicks a few times and cups itself around the end of this piece of lumber. The individual South Squortch was hiding behind an old woodpile lumber pile and peeking through an opening in the middle of the pile, peeking at us, spying on us at the fire. And we know from reading you and I and many of the listeners reading hundreds of reports that they're often spying
on us at campfires. I think they realize that we can't see very well when our eyes are looking at the fire, so they feel a little safer. They also like us. They like to look at fire. They don't seem to use it with their own devices, so they look at fire and they watch us. So I managed to catch one. And if I had only known and realized what it was at the time, of course I
would have approached it and gotten earth shaking footage. As it was, you can see the arm in the hand, and you can see the two eyes which are hotter and thermal. They're the hottest part of the face, so
you can see the large eyes which are glowing. And also later the tree that it's right next to the vertical tree part of the lumber pile, but the living tree was measured for scale, so we can tell that the eyes are four point seven five inches apart from midpoint to midpoint, whereas human eyes are two and a quarterach apart usually, So that proves it wasn't a person
and it wasn't even a mountain lion. All sorts of skeptics were saying it's a couple or three raccoons acting together, where it's a mountain lion, but that doesn't really stack up to the reality of it. But you can take a look see what you think. Although out there who haven't come across that before that was quite an experience. It wasn't understood to be one in real time, but
it was. Because I got the footage back in Vermont, I came up with a three step sort of methodology that I think people should use, not just because I tell them to, but it's logical. First, you go in the woods, even small forests, even closer to town, micro forests like an acre two or three. I look around, and this is something that researchers have only slowly come to realize, is how close physically they like to come
to us. Sometimes people find more structures right on the edge of civilization than they find deeper in the wilderness. There's a sort of ancient kinship I think that draws them.
To us, just like vice versa.
What I started doing is looking in these forests, and if I find structures that seem to be suspicious, like not necessarily what humans like to make you still don't know for sure that it's not humans. Then you put out audio recorders, record night after night. I have a kind that you can program to just record from ten PM to dawn, so the battery lasts and the memory has enough for several nights in a row. And then you have to listen to it back in real time.
You can't just look at the spectrogram because lots of subtle noises like ken which are not woodpeckers at two in the morning. I'm not woodpeckers because they're not repetitive like deathicult, and then you'll hear a response they're obviously not woodpeckers because sometimes the wood knock is absolutely ear shattering and it's only one little beak of a woodpecker's not going to do that. So you put the recorders
out and then you listen in real time. And when you hear wood knocks or trees being pushed over against great resistance, not some rotten tree that's going to fall, but a.
Tree that goes.
Damn that it was a healthy tree pushed over, that pretty much tells you that those structures were probably made by the same quote unquote people, because there are kinds of people that were making those same sounds. It's not one hundred percent, but it's in the high nineties. Then what you do is you go out and sleep there, You camp out there alone. People have always told me that I'm crazy, slash brave to do this, but really, my fascination is always outweighed my fear, though certain points
my fear spikes up. But basically there's nowhere I'd rather be than in known Sasquatch's territory, where they definitely come through because they leave their marks and their signatures in the structures just to be out there. And many times I've had trees pushed down near me, especially when it's pitch dark, they feel more comfortable and instead of freaking out and running for my car, I just appreciative, feel privileged, and I tell them, thank you, thank you for that.
I've had those experiences in terms of those tree pushes, and I've had lots of woodennocks near me. Then at one point three years ago, I had the encounter of the apple tree, which we can talk about whenever you want to. And some people thought it was a porcupine, but the tree that it's climbing, and this was midnight under a full moon, but also under the canopy of
the tree, so it was definitely compromised lighting. But my night vision camera was in operation, so I got the film of the figure climbing up the tree, which is eight inches thick, and you can just measure the tree and then measure the size of the figure that climbing it, because I got it from the bottom. It's preparing to climb up, and then it pulls itself up with its forearms, which is not something porcupines do. And also the scale of the tree shows that it's at least twice as
large as the largest North American male porcupine. So that was really the peak experience so far.
I know you had some experiences back in two thousand and eight when you had one of these things come in and walk around your camp area. Can you take us back to two thousand and eight and talk a little bit about that experience, because that lasted for quite a while, didn't it.
It did. That was when I was a real newbie and I didn't see anything, but it was pounding on the turf. It was a dark night, as usually happens when it's your best experiences because they feel all secure. So I was sleeping there and I heard this quote unquote bird whistle, which was the first time I heard it, and I've heard it many times since, and it's included in the documentary a breakdown of that whistle. And it's this elaborate whistle that contains in the middle of it
the call of the oven bird. But the prelude part and the post lude part are not like getting bird that I've been able to find. Since I've posted the documentary three years ago, nobody has written me and says, oh, I know that's an X, Y and Z bird. So back in two thousand and eight, for the first time heard this elaborate whistle. I didn't know if it was a bird or not. But right after the whistle, I heard pounding on the turf on the ground, and I hear you over there, because I knew now that it
wasn't a bird. It didn't sound like birds. Quail or pheasant will do a mating dance with the what do you call thrum, they'll percuss with their wings, so this wasn't that. And then on my recorder cracking breaking sticks. Anyone who's been out in proximity of these guys have heard a lot of subtle little sounds that they'll make. They're fidgeting around you. Maybe they're nervous. They probably are,
we both are, so they'll snap twigs. And so I heard this snapping, stepping encircling me all through the night. I didn't get any sleep, so it was like five or six hours that this thing was making its presence known, circumnavigating me again and again. I just lay there and I was happy, but it didn't escalate, so it wore me down emotionally over time, and I was pretty frazzled by the time the sun came up. So that was really the first where I personally was interacting with one.
I didn't have a thermal camera at the time, so I was just a passive recipient of this visit. But I was delighted, and it fueled my passion for going on and sleeping by myself. And I've never had a scary incident from other animals. I've worried more about bears and mountain lions than I am about sasquatch, even though
I know this escortch can be violent. Like any other population of higher primates, you have different personalities, and they could always be one that has emotional issues or a lack of inhibition, because inhibition and control of themselves that of the situation is at the very core of their nature. I have a whole series of books about autism has related to Sasquatch. I'll just stop talking for a moment and you can ask me something.
Else, give me your thoughts. Let's go back to the habituation situations. That's one of those things that has fascinated me to know. And I've had multiple people on the show where over five hundred episodes of the podcast at this point, I've probably interviewed a thousand or more people, and there's a handful that have claimed to have had habituation situations with these creatures. And by and large, one of the questions I always ask. I'm a very nuts
and bolts Ockham's Razor kind of guy. I want to see the evidence. I ask these people, where is the evidence? If you've been interacting with these things for fifteen or twenty years, You've got to have photos, you got to have videos, There's got to be physical evidence left behind. Oh absolutely yeah. I've got tons of videos, and I've got tons of pictures, and they send me forty five pictures and it sticks leaves and trees. It's paradolia, a
circle with red circles and stuff exactly. It's the red circle squatch parade that enters into my email. I always ask the same questions of these people. I have one lady I interviewed a while back who basically said, in no uncertain terms, these things trusted her to the point where they would bring the babies or the juveniles and put them in what she called the playground in her backyard.
And she sent me these pictures that were supposed to be juvenile sasquatch and it was just sticks, leaves and trees. Have you ever had a situation where you've been able to go out outside of obviously you captured the video that you captured on thermal. We're talking about how to see a sasquatch documentary. If you guys want to see that in its entirety, I will link to it in the blog for the show, So head over to Paranormal World Productions dot com. I'll embed it over there. It'll
go directly to Chris's Impossible Visits YouTube page. You can see that documentary in its entirety. That's pretty impressive footage. I watched it a couple of times over and over. Today I was backing it up and looking It certainly looks like a sa squatch to me, it looks like something. I see the hand almost reaching around this piece of wood that you captured. That was pretty compelling to me. But by and large. That's not the case with these habituation sites there is.
It's a genuine trust relationship that people do develop with their local sabsquatch, and I know that it makes skepticism very easy because they wouldn't have them coming around anymore if they whipped out the video camera or the still camera and got close pictures, because what we know about Sasquatch is that they don't like the picture taking. Any might say, how do they know?
They just know.
I know that's not satisfying. If you want to keep the Sasquatch away, if they're bothering you, pestering, you just put up a bunch of cameras on the house and they won't come around anymore. But it's just not easy. That's why I was thrilled to get to the thermal footage in the documentary. You saw some material from snow White Bigfoot in Ohio. She's been having them come around for six or seventy years. You saw some footage that
she got that I included in the documentary. Saw a print of an arm on it the window of a car and touch things like that. So those things come around once every blue moon over six years. Those opportunities to get more concrete evidence. So mostly it's just a game of chess back and forth, with objects being moved, added and subtracted by both the human side. Angie of snow White Bigfoot and her local group that comes in manipulates the objects. This is how when people are into it.
This is how a habituation site can run, which is sort of a conversation through objects and an indirect communication. It's very rarely direct. I don't know about the person who said they have baby Bigfoot in the backyard. I don't know anything about that. It would be surprising to me that they would make themselves that vulnerable. But if you come to trust a human being over the years, you may do that. I don't know. I don't have
anything for you on this question. Except for the thermal footage that I got, and that was a habituation site. Then I didn't have to take the word of my friend who lived there, the woman of the house. I didn't have to go on faith that she was telling me the truth. I had no reason to doubt her before, but after getting the footage, I knew that she was
telling the truth one hundred percent. And I bet you most people who have ongoing visitations are telling the truth, but it's just people outside of it do like yourself, have an extremely difficult time understanding how it is that they can come and you don't have any really slam dunk evidence. It's because they almost always come at night, and once you put cameras up, they don't come around. There's a whole big kettle of fish about telepathy. I
think they can read your mind. Many of your listeners will be turning off the show at this point, But I have a book called mind Speak that features twenty different detailed testimonials of people having mental relationships with their local Sasquatch. Human beings can also engage in telepathy. There's lots and lots of scientific studies, some of which I include in that book, that prove scientifically that telepathy is a real thing, and I think that Sasquatch are a
lot more proficient at it than we are. This woman in East Texas actually was able to be in touch with the female that I have on that thermal footage. I too, was very skeptical for a long time. I'm been epirical sort of guy. Then at the very end of the last time I went there, things happened that proved to me that indeed she was in touch with it. Like, for instance, the last day I was there, in the morning.
We hadn't heard any wood knocks during the day, just at night, because that's when of the most active, most comfortable. But it was nigh in the morning, and I said to her, can you tell Nantaya, the name of this female sasquatch. Can you tell her that I'm about to leave and goodbye? And could she maybe make a goodbye sound for me? And so my friend looked up into space as she would and conveyed that message and said to me, she says to wait. And so I thought, oh, okay,
it's not going to happen. And barely had I finished that thought, and bam from the woods, probably one hundred feet in the woods. It is a thick wood, so you couldn't see anything. Came a crystal clear, loud wood knock, bam, smashing against the tree. That was the culmination of several incidents at that house that finally dispelled the last shred of doubt I had about the fact that she was indeed mentally in touch with this fellow creature, this fellow
human kindred species. To us, So I don't know what to say about other habituation sites. It's just that I know that Angie It's snow White Bigfoot has them coming around. And I know that the woman I visited has them coming around or did I think she finally vanquished them because she didn't want it anymore. I know that they've been around me and Vermont. So that's all I can give you in terms of a direct response.
The mind speak thing is another one of those things that has always been on my radar because I've interviewed people who have to have had those kind of experiences. Survivorman lest Stroude was on the show. He talked about it. He sure did.
He thought he was having schizophrenia. He went to the doc here.
Yeah. Let's talked about at least three different scenarios with me on the show. Todd Standing is another example. I went up with Todd last year and spent a week with him in his research area up in Radium, BC, Canada. And that's one of the huge things that Todd is into, for lack of a better term at this point, is this connection that he claims to have with the clan of Sasquatch that are in and around his research area. If you have any experiences there with him. I did
have experiences that I can't explain. I had rocks thrown at me, we heard vocalizations, we heard wood knocks, we heard whoops, we heard whistles. I did not see one. But there's tons of tree structures, there's tons of formations. We found an enormous formation that I've talked about plenty of times. The listeners are probably turning this off because
they've heard it so many times on the show. We found this amazing probably todd estimated three hundred plus year old tree in this area of the forest that Todd really didn't spend a whole lot of time. It was the last day of the expedition. I was leaving the following day and said, I want to go this direction. We hadn't been in that direction yet, so Todd's let's go.
I led the way. We found this huge tree. There was three large, I would say sixty to seventy feet long, probably twelve to fourteen maybe eighteen inches in diameter trees that were propped up on this very large tree. They came together at the top almost within inches of each other. One was facing exactly due north, the other one was facing exactly due south, and the other one was somewhere in the middle. It wasn't exactly east west. The third one honestly didn't make a whole lot of sense. There
was no root balls on either of the trees. We did some cursory looking around when we were there, and then Todd had an expedition. I think he had expeditioners the following week, which was his last group coming in
before they closed down for the winter. And there's actually a video on his YouTube channel now Slavanic Bigfoot that I've linked to in the past and talked about on the show, where Tid went out there and they dug down and there was no root balls to these trees, and you could see the watermark with these things had clearly been laying on the ground. They were picked up
and placed where they were. They were in parts exactly and it was absolutely one of the by far, most mind blowing things that I have seen and experienced doing any Bigfoot research, outside of having a siding a couple of months ago while I was out in the Pacific Northwest researching. But it's interesting to me about these structures because it's something I was taking notes as I was
watching your documentary today, How to See a Sasquatch. I was looking at some of the very things that you're finding, the bins where these saplings are bent over and stuck under rocks in some cases, and other trees. I'm finding that on our forty acre property here in North Carolina. I found the same thing in Tennessee. I found the same thing in the Pacific Northwest. I've seen it in Florida. I've seen it almost everywhere.
Take a look at Australian yawe researcher if they find the same structures in Australia. I've seen Russian videos with the same structures. This is just these archetypal structure that the species feels makes their environment more comfortable and homelike for them. I think there's making the forest over into their own image with their own signatures, expanding their self into the forest, which is also something that batistic folks do sometimes, which is to make structures around them so
they can feel more comfortable with the world. But why do you say you can't explain what you experienced with tode. Isn't it just sasco act? Just why is so hard to explain what else is going to throw rocks at you and move giant trees.
I am a very skeptical person. I'm very skeptical of my own evidence. I am skeptical of my own experiences.
Well, I'm maintaining the posture of neutrality as long as possible, so to say you can't explain it, just as a way of continuing to keep this skeptical questioning going.
I guess that's a fair point.
Yeah, but I find life is too short could continue to be in doubt. I was in doubt about the telepathy until it was proven to me in Texas, and I'm no longer in doubt. Different personal cognitive styles that people have, So I'm not telling you to adopt my credulity about this stuff.
Sure, and it honestly, it took me seeing these creatures with my own eyes.
Yeah, tell me about that. Have you shared it on the station so you don't want to be redundant?
I haven't, because here we go. I'm under an NDA at this point because I was involved in filming a certain project that is still in the worst so that will not be out until the end of this year or the first of next year, and Once that is out there, I am going to lay it out on the line. I have said that I've had experiences recently in the last couple of months, and I've gotten tons of emails people have asked me to share those, and I will eventually share them. I am not just teasing
you guys. Along. There is an NDA in place that prevents me from going into details about where I was, what I was doing, and who I was with. But I can tell you there's nothing against me telling you that I had experiences where I saw these things three times in two days, and I am no longer on any kind of offense when it comes to skepticism about their existence.
One case, you can be skeptical, but not the overarching question of who they exist.
Absolutely, and I think it's healthy for us to look at even our own experiences and our own evidence. I found footprints, several sets of probably six sets of footprints on our property here in North Carolina over the last couple of years. I cast the best of those last October. I sent them out to Cliff Meldrum has some scans
of them. I haven't sent him an actual physical copy of those yet, but Cliff did take some really cool three D scans and sent them to me, and he sent them over to Jeff to take a look at. So I'm waiting to hear back from Jeff. Cliff certainly thinks they're legitimate. He thinks there's some interesting parts of the toes and the toe stems that he is really looking into and is very curious about. But I'm very
skeptical about my own evidence. I found those sixty yards from our house here, So either there was a really big man with a thirteen and a half inch foot that's almost six inches across that was walking in this muddy area outside of my house in the middle of freaking nowhere, running the risk of being shot, or as
a sasquatch. The other thing that I've experienced too, that I really found interesting that you've experienced many times that you document in your documentary and some of your other videos, is this tree pushing down thing. I had never experienced that firsthand. I don't have a ton of time because I produce four podcasts, I host four full time podcasts, and.
I write books for every Oh my goodness, so I can't.
Go through all of this audio in real time. But I used to put audio recorders out on the property when we would have experiences or weird things would be going on. I actually need to find out what type you have because I heard you talking about being able to record them.
Oh yeah, I'll send you the link. You can post it in the show notes.
Yes, that definitely would help me out, and a lot of people that are interested in audio like I am, because I would put these audio recorders out and I found that one particular one when I was going through the audio, there was really nothing else that was anomalous that stuck out to me other than what sounded like some bipedal walking. And I heard what sounded like a very large tree being pushed over and it was very much like you said. It wasn't like a dead tree.
Oh it fell there. It went real force.
And exerted on those things exactly.
And I've been all over the areas where I think it could possibly be behind it.
Yeah, I think they can mess with the acoustics, and sometimes I don't know how they do it, but a lot of times people don't find the trees, or they'll hear like absolute like a wrecking session in the woods across the street for hours. They'll think they'll go find pickup sticks all over the place of trees. But they don't, so I don't know how they do that. Some paranormal aspects to them which we may not get to in this episode. Maybe we can pick it up next time. No,
you can tell me about your site. So it's just you and me.
It's you and me and the tens of thousands of people that are going to listen to this.
So did you get these on camera? It wasn't just quote unquote just your eyeballs.
I can say this. I saw them with my eyeballs while we were doing some recording. But all I can say for sure is that I saw them with my eyeballs on three different occasions over the course of two days, and one of them was during the day.
Be a big old lucky duck. That's great. I'm happy for you.
Speaking of things on film. This is one of the things that I really wanted to get into with you is the video that you mentioned earlier where people were thinking this was a porcupine. I'll be honest with you. I've watched this video many times. I was familiar with it before I was really ever familiar with the rest of your work, and I have to be honest, I felt like this was a porcupine. So let's get into that.
Kind of set that situation up for us, for people who may not be familiar with that footage, give us the backstory of what you were doing, where you were, how that came about, and let's get into that video. And obviously you're going to dispel those rumors about what you think that was versus it being a porcupine.
So there, I was going to my habitual quote unquote spot in the woods where I would camp out, where I'd recorded them a lot, making their tell tale sounds. It was September twentieth, twenty twenty one. I was walking along the path on the way to my camp site and I heard a light knock, which doesn't come through very well on the footage, but it was a definite light knock, Like I said, oh, I've never heard a
knock on my way in, So I kept going. When I got just opposite to this apple tree, I heard there was a stamping on the ground, a very distinct stamping that does come through pretty well on the audio of the footage. I stopped and I looked over there with my night vision camera. There was a little black furry blob over there, and I said, hi, I see you over there. Then it turned to the tree and pulled itself up. Now the tree is eight inches thick.
Because it's night vision, it's not one hundred percent clear. Nothing's one hundred percent clear. But it has long legs instead of short, little stubby legs of a porcupine. It pulled itself up in the tree. Later I got footage of its arm reaching out, grabbing something and plunking it in its mouth, which porcupines it's as a rodent. Rodents don't do that. They eat with their two little hands in front of their face. This was reaching out with a long arm, an elbow, a long forearm, big shoulder,
and then pulling the something back into its mouth. Also, there was a time it was obscuring itself, which is what sad squittch do, And it was making no porcupine sounds whatsoever. In fact, it was only making this sound like which I'd heard elsewhere. It's this little popping sound they make, and I feature it elsewhere in the documentary.
In the documentary, I show that this guy, Thomas Powell in California, has recorded that this woman Lisa Fine, my friend in the Adirondacks is recorded the very same popping sound, and porcupines don't make that sound. They make this funny little kind of sound, and that didn't happen at all
in the encounter. Plus, you can see that the tree, as compared to the figure at the base of the tree before it pulls itself up with its arms, is much larger, at least twice as large as the largest North American porcupine, So I don't really see the ambiguity. At one point, you can see when it's going up the tree, it looks like a porcupine going up a tree, but it's too large to be a porcupine. I have a comparison of my leg moving the way its left leg did, and then its left leg, and I go
back and forth between the two and porcupines. Of these stubby little legs, they're about seven or eight inches long. This leg was at least as long as my leg. I'm not a rodent. People make their own decisions, that's okay. But at one point, up at the top, it finally came out of hiding, just for a few seconds, and I can see its head between two branches of leaves.
The woman I mentioned earlier. Angie of Snow White Bigfoot fame helped me to enhance that so that you can see its eye it's left eye, and you can see the iris and a part of the head that the eye is end, which is in the front of its head, as opposed to rodents porcupines that have them in the side of their head because they're prey animals, not predators. I didn't include that in the documentary, so you'll want to look at that fresh because that was done later.
I didn't know what I had at the time. I just had this encounter and I didn't know what it was because I hadn't done any analysis of the footage. So I just went to my campsite and had my regular night because I figured it was probably a porcupine, only to find out later that many aspects of it show that it wasn't. First the wood knock, then the stamping on the ground, then the vocals that it was making, and vocals apparently with the tongue of the lips no
porcupine sounds. There's a lot of reasons that I think they might even climb trees that look like a porcupine that it's going to sound like complete bullshit too many people. They're mimics. They're really good mimics when it comes to animal sounds, So why wouldn't they mimic animal movements too. That would be a damning thing to admit if the
thing weren't twice as big as any porcupine could be. Ok, you saw this far away, there'd be no way in the daytime, say, and it was climbing a tree that way, everybody would think, oh, that's a porcupine, because in the middle of its climbing it moves that way, but not once it gets up there and reaches for food like a primate reaches for food. I think it's quite possible that they might have developed one of their camouflage defense
mechanisms to climb trees like another animal. So you can decide that's neo convenient of an explanation, but I'd be interested to see what you think when you look at the clips that I sent over earlier today, they're.
Definitely interesting and I want to post them over on the blog for everybody that's listening to take a look at as well. Obviously, you can see the footage in its entirety in the documentary, but as Chris alluded to, you didn't have this footage that you sent me earlier today until after the documentary was out. That'll be up for everybody to look at it. Honestly, it's like everything else.
Evidence is subjective for everybody. Everybody sees things a little bit differently depending on how you look at the subject or where you're at.
Even the damn Paterson film, people still think that it's not definitive.
Yeah, and it took me a long time to get there. I just got there over the last year because I'd always questioned the Patterson Gimblin film, and it honestly took me going back and breaking down. Obviously, Roger passed away in the early seventies, so I go back and look at the only thing we have, which is Bob Gimblin, and some of the things he said I actually got
with the Todd Prescott over at the Sasquatch Archives. Todd had a really cool interview that aired six days after the Patterson Gimlin film was filmed, and you hear it fresh from Bob and Roger six days after this thing was filmed, and you can compare that. Obviously, Bob has done a ton of interviews, and he's given a ton of talks at conferences on podcast in the last fifty seven fifty eight years since this thing was filmed. I
did this analysis. I have a cop brain, so I approached it like I would anybody if you're into true crime and you watch people give their statements to the police, and right, I just broke it down, and I tell you, outside of a couple of inconsistencies that I think, frankly just have to do with age, because Bob's in his nineties at this point. I think the last interview that I looked at was probably eight years ago or so, and he's told the same damn story the entire time.
I see no signs of deception in my opinion, and I'm certainly no expert. The film is what it is. MK Davis has done his thing. Todd Gatewood is trying to do his own version currently, and I have some strong opinions about that we won't get into. But it really, to me comes down to Bob and his story and whether you believe this guy or not. And I believe his story. So if I believe a story and he was there and he watched this thing walk across the sandbar.
Then damn it, it's got to be real. That's where I'm sticking and planting my flag.
Have you seen Bill Munz breakdown of the nature of suits and the possibility that this could be a suit and how many reasons that it could not be a suit?
Oh yeah, and that's the other thing. You had. The guy in my home state of North Carolina. As a matter of fact, Philip Morris, who claimed to make the suit, could never produce anything that was even remotely close.
To exactly it's one thing that sits there and sayeah, suit, But once you get into the granular details of how a suit would actually function, to me, it's abundantly clear just from the video evidence, just like it is to MK Davis and others, regardless of how the story is told. I have a video AUP called the Patterson Film How to Be one hundred Percent Convinced. Some people watch them still aren't one hundred percent convinced, but I think it's
one hundred percent. It's convincing. So again, you're never going to get everybody. But recently science has catalogued a species of macaque over in Indonesia somewhere, just based on trail camera evidence, and I think we should have categorized this the same with the Patterson film. It's absolutely abundantly clear
that tons of muscle movement underneath. We don't want to go down that rep at hope, but you're right, no one's going to agree, and people are still going to think that my footage is a porcupine even though all the reasons I said. And I'm glad you'll post those links on your page. People can see what I'm talking about and see what they think, absolutely and.
They will make up their own minds before we get out of here. I want to be respectful of your time, but I definitely want to get into the Sasquatch savant autistic theory that you have about them. Can you give us the dime store tour of how you got to that point? What are some of the things that drove you to decide that it's possible these things may have some sort of autism and even the OCD behavior that we see in some of the habituation situations like we were talking about earlier.
I paid close attention to their behavior and what must be their nature underneath the behavior for years and years, and then I saw a documentary on profoundly autistic people who don't find it possible to communicate with others directly. They communicate indirectly through symbols, through objects. Mostly they make structures of their toys. They line their toys up, they build things. They also make mental structures, like memorizing the
entire train system of Great Britain. Stuff like this, like prodigious photographic memory. And then the more I learned about that, and I started reading memoirs of autistic people, such as Don Prince's book Songs of the Gorilla Nation and Donna Williams's great book called Exposure Anxiety, I came to recognize just how many points of convergence there are between autistic
human beings and sasquatch. So I have a book with the surprising title, Sasqutch and Autism that kind of puts together my best effort at making this argument, like I have twelve parallels between the two. Some people think that I'm being unfair or offensive to autistic people, saying they're like big monkeys, or saying that Sasquatch, these magnificent creatures, have some sort of mental illness. No, on the contrary, I'm really just isolating the part of autism that is
on the genius scale autistic savant. I have a book called the sas Savant Theory, So I think that you can pick out the traits and attributes and the gifts of autistic savant human beings and find a lot of it going on in Sasquatch. I don't think they'd have been able to accomplish what they have over centuries in millennia, not being captured or rounded up, put in reservations, much
less even believed in by most people. They wouldn't have been able to accomplish that had they not had these cognitive behavioral profile that allows them to both interact with us indirectly and steer clear. I like to say that they avoid us like the plague and they seek us like the cure. They have this double sided posture toward us, especially at habituation sides, but also just at the edges of civilization. They can't stay away, just like autistic people,
who are especially nonverbal autistic people. It's not like they want to be in their own world, in their own bubble, sequestered from the warmth of humanity. They want to interact, but they can't do it directly. It's too threatening to them. There's a sense of chaos, so they need to create their own sort of sanctuary, both internally and externally in their living space. But they want to be able to communicate and commune in the way that they can. It
seems like, saysquatch, is doing that too. You can't think of any other creature in the world that is both evasive and repeatedly drawn to us and communicating with us in strange ways, like leaving gifts on the porch and taking gifts in return, rearranging our objects quote unquote, borrowing them for two months and then returning them. There's nobody else like that except autistic people. They don't take our objects, but they carve out their own style of reaching out,
commune indicating. But it's not at all like our style. I shouldn't say that, obviously, I just mean the boring neurotypical people. We just do what we do. But people on the spectrum, especially the extreme end of the spectrum, where these folks find it impossible to be like ninety percent of other humans, there's just a lot of similarities.
I want to recommend before we close, speaking of autism, this new podcast you may have heard of it's called The Telepathy Tapes, and we were touching on telepathy earlier. All of you out there listening, if you have any interest in psychic ability, much less autism, either one, listen
to this new podcast. It's called The Telepathy Tapes. There are so far eight episodes, and I could talk about it for a while, but I'll just say that it is a discovery about nonverbal autistic children and how most or all of them are able to communicate conscious rather than through explicit articulation. They can read the minds of their teachers, their parents, and their friends. I won't try to convince you this is true, because just listening to
the podcast alone will bowl you over. Absolutely. It's one of the best things I've ever listened to. Again, it's the Telepathy Capes and the woman who's doing it as a filmmaker named Kai Dickens.
It definitely sounds interesting. You guys will have to check it out. Make sure you check out Impossible Visits will have it linked right here in the show notes to that is Chris's YouTube channel. Go over there and show him some love, give him some likes, and subscribe and check out all the amazing footage that he has over there. It's over two hundred videos at this point, and obviously you can watch how to see a sask watch his documentary. I will link to that on the blog as well.
Also, my website is the Nearness of You Net and you can get in touch with me through that website. If anybody wants to reach out and share with each other.
I love that. We will definitely link to all that stuff, including your books. He's got a ton of books out there, folks. You can get them anywhere you get fine books. I will link to those in the show notes as well. Chris, thanks so much for coming on man. I've had a blast talking to you.
Thank you, sir. It's been great. I hope we can do it again down the road, down life's lonely highway. They say you don't gotta go home, but you can't stay.
I don't want to be.
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