Hey everybody, This is Left Striving Yes, yes, I know aka Survivor Man, and you're listening to Brian on sasquatch Audisen. Hey there, and welcome back to Sasquatchus. Thank you so much for clicking play. It is Sunday. I hope you've had a great weekend. We have an amazing guest lined up for you. But before we get there, I want to start by inviting you. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email you and get me at Brian at Paranimalworldproductions
dot com. Get head over to the website, check it out, become a memory there and help support the show. If you guys watch the live that we did over on YouTube. This has been up for about a week or so now. Daniel, you know, from the UK, reached out to me and we were going to do this interview with Renee Holland from Finding Bigfoot on a different date and unfortunately my schedule wasn't going to allow me to be a part of this to co host it with Daniel. Fortunately things changed
and I was able to do it. We moved it up a week or so and I was able to sit down and we had Renee Holland on. If you have never heard Renee on a podcast, because frankly, she doesn't do a whole lot of podcasts. I don't know that she's ever done one, to be honest with you, because I've never heard her own one. But she does do a few conferences. I got to hang out with her and eat dinner with her up at the Smoky Mountain Bigfoot Conference last year.
She is an absolute blast to talk to. She's a fun lady, she's amazingly smart. We had a really good time and I was so glad to get her on for this interview. I think you guys are really going to enjoy it. If you haven't already, please take time to rate interview the
show wherever you're listening to the podcast. And remember, if you haven't picked up your copy of my new book, Sasquatch Unleashed the Truth Behind the Legend, you can go over to our website and get a signed copy directly from me there, or you can get it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble or anywhere you find to find books. But enough of that, I know you guys are ready to get over to Renee's interview, So I'm gonna stop talking. All you have to do is sit back, relax and enjoy the show.
Hey guys, and welcome. We have a great podcast lined up. Co hosting with me is mister Brian Kinkshot. Hollo, Brian, I'm good, Daniel, how are you, sir? Good? As always? We have a very good podcast lined up, don't we? Yes, we do. I've been excited about this and I was glad to get the invite to hop on and co host with you today. I'm glad it worked out on my scheduling. Yeah, bro, we have some comments come through and say hi to people before we get going. Let's say hi to take I think
a few of these are from your side, Brian. Yep. There's tea time with Tiffany, she's our producer over on Hearing One Odyssey with Wayne or in Tennessee. We have Charlotte Jane Facebook user. I take it that's my nun because she's put kisses at the end of it. We then have Taras Smith Cheryl Peacock, the cheer ol Peacock here in North Carolina, right, I think, Brian, instead of waiting around and chatting, I reckon, we just get straight into it. Guys, please welcome to the stage.
Someone who I'm sure that you'll know. Hi, Rene, how are you? I'm great, buddy. How are you doing, Daniel, I'm very well. Hey Brian, good to see you, Renee, thanks so much for being with us. Of course, good to see you again. It's been a minute last summer, I think, Yeah, no, it's almost a year. I am so stopped to be here with you, boss too. I don't do a lot of podcasts, but I so love what you
were doing, so I had to definitely make some time itself. Let's get into this, ron, I could you tell us about how you got interested into the world of cryptis and cryptosology. I don't want to age myself, but I think my real hair color might give me away. I'm a contemporary of my big book hugging co host Cliff Matt Bobo. We all grew up when in search of those fresh reruns with Leonard Nimoy, Big Boot was everywhere
in pop culture, the Patterson Gimlin film, Daniel. When you wanted to watch a movie, you couldn't see an anti va day actually go into the cinema. So I remember it was the East cinema at in Seu Fall, South Dakota, So this would be the early seventies. I grew up seeing some clippings in the paper. I grew up in South Dakota, on the plains of South Dakota. For you over in the UK or anybody around the country, just think of that. I'm dating myself again and I say little
house on the prairie. But I essentially grew up with that kind of geography. So there'd be a random newspaper clippings. There wasn't so much on television at that time, a random newspaper clipping. Anderson Gilllan film came out years later. Now it's about ten years later. That's going around actually in the theater. So my dad took me to see that. I remember having my
mind alone having made that. Look at me being this little kid and seeing this giant he played figure on this footage going across the screen and looking at that and then looking at my dad and he turns down and looks at me. He's what is the best part? And really my favorite thing of Bigfoot
is if that's not real, then I was hey. Instead of my dad telling me what was he really asked me what it was, and I think of as we then started watching In Search of and these other shows, which wasn't just bigfood, it was a Lotinus Monsters, He's your Island, It's all these mysteries of the world. It was curiosity. So that became a special thing for my dad and I. How was may How did they do that? Then? Smart about it? Don't let anybody hood week yet.
So between testing stunt gere with my dad and watching bigwoot shows and those paranormal mystery shows, that's how I initially got into Could you tell us about your work in the field of biology? Yeah, And I always raised on the plains of South Dakota, but I have always loved rivers in the woods, and in fact moving out to Washington State many moons ago. I basically left Southcolte after high school and I came out to Washington State and started going to
school. And actually the first time I went through college, I was a physical anthropology major. A lot of people don't realize that. Doctor Melgrim and I, Jeff and I get to have some fun conversations and it wasn't quite what I wanted, So I led back into what I originally wanted to be. When I was young, I wanted to go out and study the big cats or bears. Those were what really what fascinated me the most were big cats and bears being out here in Washington. Getting my degree, I went
to University of Washington. Specifically I went to the schoo all the quatic and fishery science is because they have the best program to get me as close as possible to study ground bears. It was either that or go with tent Peach Income Choku, Russia, and those were the two places where I could do that. I was fortunate enough to work with the Fisheries Research Institute, basically working with the top people in their field, and that led me down to
obviously it's funded by where is the money behind science? That always is what drives it. Who is the person who is doing that research? First off, what's the hook? What fascinates you? What do you wake up thinking about and trying to understand better? Then who was doing that work? But the kicker is how is it getting funded or how do you bring in another project that gets funded? So for me that led me into bear and salmon.
Actually, this is something I think I've mentioned to you before. I work with a lot of Indigenous people and it's one of my favorite pubs. Make sure to see this. That is the mask and tribal image for the interaction between barons salmon, Which is why does the salmon go up that creek? Or how does a bear recognize all of the biometrics. I'm on bear, it needs to put on the chloric intake, so it's going to stride where it is in the hierarchy. How that fish knows where to go?
It blows my mind. In the state, we still don't know. We still don't understand why all of these fish are cooling in front of this particular creek. They're natal stream that they'll come back to that they'll go thousands of miles, it's just mining wooden. They'll come back to that spot. And when they go for that initial pulse. We think this population of fish, these fish are genetically different than a fish that went into Eagle Creek or Happy
Creek. And there's all these fish, hundreds sometimes thousands of fish pulled up this little three foot white creek and you think it's one big pulse, but there's all these old micropulses. I won't nerd out here with the details but we still don't know what is that trigger that pushes them. We started this research in the forties. We still don't know. Is it the slinny of the water, is it temperature, is it oxygen? Has it down? The dinal factor, water flow up? Well, it's I love that stuff.
Basically, I like to tell people I've been this little curiosity driven organism from birds. I mean I was given a baby alive doll as a child, and you know, I had it for one day and they showed me, you know, how to take care of it, and then I think it was that next day after Christmas, I was upstairs with scissors taking it apart. How did it work? I mean, my mom's fourified, but she's okay, we see what path you're on. So that's what led me
to science and from there it's funded by Salmon Research. So I then was employed by Noah National Oceanic Atmosphere Administration, and I basically niched myself in with river restoration. So I worked on a restoration team. So I basically am an expert on that river system of the Alpine environment all the way down to that estuary. So that includes the water, the trees, the rocks, the air, the critters from the brown bear down to the macroinvertebrate and the
bigfoot that might be in there. Two that sounds like an awesome co ed. It's definitely a little different than Sasquatch research, that's for sure. I will tell you this one of my first days because my love for bigfoot really is. I love curing reports in the stories, and some of them are fun, but some of them are the ones you are like, how do you explain this? And that's what keeps me intrigued on this phenomena where you
can categorize a lot of those out but what are those ones? At the end of the day, this person has everything to lose, nothing to gain, ridicol and scorn or there's multiple witnesses of those ones that just stop in your tracks. Ever since I was even child, that's been my situation. Now, I land myself out the Pacific Northwest, the hotbed of sightings, and I am working with tribal members. From day one, I knew that it is not respectable to bring up bigfoot in an indigenous environment. Let them
start the conversation, if you will. So I had been working there for maybe six years before an intern so the long story for another time though. But an intern missed their faery and showed up late and comes up and change the subject with like, hey, Renee, how's your Bigfoot book coming in? I got a talking to by their elder. You literally got up and
came over and scolded me. But that's another conversation. I actually one of the things I love doing is the connections I have made growing up in South Dakota, very Coda Nakotasu. It's one of the reasons my connections and my paradigm how I look at the natural world was definitely influenced by them, my grandmother and my indigenous friends growing up. But throughout the show, I met so many other Indigenous people, and I've continued to work those relationships going forward,
and that's one of the things I actually cherished them most. What is your actual opinion of Bigfoot? So funny the Renee sayer, the skeptical sign. I'm skullly with three molders. I love Bigfoot. I am fascinated by Bigfoot and driven by curiosity. It's the reason I became a scientist. Question is what is Bigfoot? In my opinion? After all these years, I honestly still don't know, Daniel, because I've never quote unquote being a Bigfoot.
I personally have had experiences that I can't explain. I know people nearing jar in my heart who swear that they've seen a Sasquatch. I still don't know. It's one of the things that as busy as I am, keeps me connected because I want to make sure that my bigfoot community. I'm protective of my big community. I don't want people to be foakesd or hoodwing are mocked and ridiculed and made fun of, because there is something going on here
that still fascinates me. I spent over a decade of my life when we started filming Funny pick Foot Brian, I think we've talked about this. My nephew didn't even come out to my hip when I left the shot six four. I spent over a decade of my life. We were the four of us nine months of the year we were One thing I do like to say is I think diving into it is I would see a lot more of maybe people taking an up to to make money off of it or something. And
I don't mean to be cynical. I am even more fascinated and intrigue after all of this time. But for the record, yes, I still don't believe it's a biological instance species. I just don't see the evidence for that. As much as Meldrum and Clip will chuckle with me or or on a rib meat, I'm here as a voice to say raising the bar for scientific inquiry, calling out the scientific community. Brian, you know you at a busy table yourself. That's the hard part. When you're a speaker at these
conferences. You don't get away and see the other presentations. But basically, when I went to Tennessee, see Darby and I that's when we first met, and he was like, I'm so excited. And we talked bears, and we talked DNA, and we talked gene ICs, and we talked raising the bar. And I know you want to talk a little bit about this later. But my presentation one saying, look, I want bigfoot to be real. Understand how hard it is, let's take bigfoot off the table.
How hard it is to change the paradigm or an accepted belief or motocol in the academic world, not even about bigfoot. And that was one thing I did in Tennessee's talked about how the established beliefs for this a large cataclysmic event. I use Mount Saint Teliverance as an example. Even then, it's so hard to get people to change your years the policy work and makes policy is financially motivated, run by politics and big corporations. I basically say similer that
down. Now you have the bigfoot community. You have people who trying to make it an opportunity where they can make money off of it. Number one or number two. But when it's studying being funded, it's so important to look at who is dragging it, how is it funded? In users in it? So yeah, it's like foot in the UK is a very skeptical thing people will ever believe, or well it doesn't, but then having the
possibility that it could be. I think it is incredible. One thing that we talked about when I was introduced to you, I love that it was sitting down and watching these shows with your grandpa and then your nan. Eventually that's why I am on this podcast talking to you. I love what you're doing. Big quot to me is still this mystery that we still don't understand. And as a scientist, zero is a data point people, and you don't get to conduct research in an enveload, be in an echo chamber.
You have to share your information, you have to be open to other ideas. Sometimes you can't just yes, I know and shoot the other side down. And the other half of my Tennessee presentation was as a scientist understanding what it's like to change policy and protocols now depending to that in the big Cook community. Oh my gosh. And which is what I was speaking to you, Daniel. This is not just fans of a football club or or needle
coin or docs and lovers. This is an emotional loaded community. And you can get some hotheads and some oddballs in here that you don't count in other places, and people can get upset quickly, as I think you've already experienced. And it was one thing I really wanted you to understand. So I'm always calling out that. The first thing I've been saying to people going to town halls is curiosity, get outsign, discover for yourself. And I love
that Bigfoot is a vehicle to get kids excited about the outdoor world. I'm saying this for fifteen years. It was what kept going because somewise I would have lost it. I'll get it on this TV show. I like to call it the reality TV circus side show that I did for a decade. It was, you know I signed up for. I thought I was heading off to graduate school. But I digress. Bigfoot gets kids excited about the
outdoor world, number one. Number two, you got to get out there and understand your environment, and you might not find Bigfoot, but you're gonna learn a lot of about the natural world, and you're going to learn about what we need to protest. Then number three, if you really want to fit one, do it right. Everybody that's raised the bar in science, give the junk signs and that low hanging through and that click bait bus that's
out here. And here's the thing. I get ticked off when the people are pretending it to be a real scientific adventure, a real scientific research and it's not. And I'll digress there, but it's a mockumentary or they're having fun. I think that Huckberry, those guys are great. They're not pretending that it's a real show. And my Knowledge Finding is the only show where we had it written in our contract. Anybody faked anything, they're gone,
and we actually executed that. Now I'm not saying people Little didn't plot something and fake us out, or that Cliff and Bobo didn't take a hot air balloon in the whole way and it was some adventure. But but we were doing those night investigations and if we heard something or we collected something, we weren't faking the calls or faking tracks at least to my knowledge, and actually handed it. You know, we were one of those early shows of we're
going out and doing this. I me, my favorite part of Finding Bit three is you could sit there and watch these witness encounters and reports. We would go there, we would attempt to do an investigation. We do a recreation. We we do an investigation, and what happened there was really happening, and making television is really boring. Doing those night investigations would be a couple of minutes, were sometimes six hour adventures. You're going to get a
flyby from a cat. It's so important to me that misinformation disinformation right now is so random. It's so hard before and now it's even worse. So I travel the country, I keep myself big. A lot of I do public speaking. I've done a few TED talks, and I speak on many topics othering and belonging, which I am trying to boring into a big for me because it's so critical. I speak on LGBTQ equality, I speak on science, education, stem critical thinking, and these are all things we need,
critical thinking, we need to raise. Have you read saying in this book that I was telling you about where he basically covers all of those you know, all of the biases and all those people you need to educate on the pseudo fallacies, all of that. You can be there ready to jump out of the way that next you know, hugster because there were so many people out there or just trying to make it bad fifteen minutes of fame or
whatever it may be. But I'm happy to see that a lot of people are starting to talk about I'm going to move into the next question because you started to answer it for me, and I think what you've done there with finding Bigfoot, and everyone I talked to they see you guys as the original
people that started to populicize it because you guys started quite early on. I don't know it's the exact date when you started finding big book, but they said that you're like the original guys who started looking for this kind of creature or being thank you. I feel like I should be throwing some kind of gangster a pimp con on there, playing some music. We're not verbs, we are standing on. I'd like to say the big shoulders of those who
came before us. Mom's request, Oh my gosh, she got a high tech but Doug was doing way pre dates what funny Bigfoot was doing finding big But was that first running where you're doing in that aspect of it. But we are no way the first, and we stand on the shoulders got Hicheck, other smaller productions, and then of course the originals who are actually doing those expeditions trying to find it and going back. You got Meldrum before Meldrum
was over. Krantz. Should we go down the list of I don't know if you want more questions, but John Green's bindernegal, all of them renee to Hinden. I mean, what an amazing personality goes on and not I don't want to leave names off, but it's very sweet of you to say. I think in that concept, and we hit it just the right time with this goofy group that they threw us together, and all my Dysfunctional World family, my Bigfoot brothers. I mean the timing of it, but I
think what hit was that? And I say this, and a lot of my presentations at Bigfoot comes up. Even if there wasn't that show in Bigfoot, if Matt Bobo would have still been doing what they were doing. But love me a Bigfoot story. I always want to drop my toeway and say, okay, what is going on here? And then they tell me about it and they love having me because I'm gonna be like, wait what or I am really guys would have been doing that either way? Now? Yeah,
My one request is call it for what it is. Are you entertainment? Are you really that's the thing? Watch out for that. And then now we're getting into you know, with AI and science, it's harder and you have to have peener lens. But it's now more than ever. As I say to my kids when I go to those presentations, the Internet and all the technology being thrown at you. My generation is we have these things called encyclopedia or library. You have to walk inside and look it up and
check that out. Can you guys have this little computer in your hand and all the answers? But it's all the more harder. What people will believe on the Internet is just so disheartening. Make yourself the best scientists naturalists. You guys have to invent your sources. How did you run to get involved
in fun? Bigfoot people were easily getting online And this is the remember of the first time I was with my sister and one of the first things we looked at because of our dad, is we were like, let's go find a big food store and that's how it's on the BFRO. So that's when I became aware of the BFRO. So flash forward, It's years later. My dad had passed away and I was going through some of these belongings and I found some big Bolk clippings and it made me feel very young. That
made me feel close to my dad again. So I wanted to find Bigfoot stories. Where I was doing field work and my main project was on the Olympic Peninsula. I sent an email to Matt Moneymaker. Matt respond and asked for my number. Calls me. Now, so this is like two thousand and three. Maybe to just condense this, I do remember, you're going to be the Jane Good old Sasquatch. It's going to be a woman who finds one. They come very close to women because women aren't intimidating. This
is not me, Mockey. I'm just trying to do it a different way of Matt. And I remember saying, with all due respect, I don't believe it's a real animal, but I love a bigfoot story. I am a phil biologist and I've worked with Salmon so for the longest time. If there would be a comment on the BFROL page talking about working with a biologist at Noah Callers ELK and does Sam, he was referring to me. So I signed an NDA and I say this, it's really interesting. I say,
I'm not a BFROL member. Not to throw shade at the BFRL. I am constantly applauding collect data, just be select, have a system that applies everywhere. Whatever you're studying, do good science. So I plot the BFRL and what they're doing. I just keep my perspective. I like to stay a little bit removed. So that's how I wound up on the show. I had an online wink relationship with Matt where I would leave bait out
there. I would be going out there three days a week to these field sites where there are total hotspots, and I would also a part of the year would be out there months on end doing my survey. So that was for over a decade that I was doing that, and then finally met Matt in person, and then I was supposed to be heading out. I was at Noah during all this time, working Noah, working with the Lower l
Walk. There was the Elwa dammarymobile project was going on at that point, the largest dam removal in the history, and now the Klamath is coming down and that is the largest damarymobile project. So Salmon we were basically studying the pregammary removal that led to a movement study. I was basically tracking little baby Salmon single all over and seeing things happening now down on the Klamath, which is gorgeous raw country right there, dying up to near Willow Creek and all
that. But that was what I was doing. Matt then contacted me. I was supposed to be heaving the grad school mixt thing. I knew I was filming a pilot because I thought it was going to be like, Oh, I get to go to this trip to Alaska, which is one of my favorite places. A bunch of research up there with brown bears. Basically, what part of the salmon a brown bear eats is what my research was.
It turned into what part of the brown bear a bigfoot? You know, I filmed a pilot not thinking that it would be over a decade of my life, and I know I've done some interviews and spoke to this. I'm very much in trying to always mentor that next generation do what you're passionate about. I'm that person who's doing what you want to do or is close to it, and make them your mentor. Stay tuned for more Sasquatch outyssey. We'll be right back after these messages. So here, I was doing
what I wanted to do. I was supposed to head off to grad school. I do this little trip and then all of a sudden, saying no, I'm went a contract. They're like, hey, this chip off. Wait what I honestly, you guys, I'm devastated. I was physically ill. I was like, no, I'm on this other path. So where
I'm volved with this is this. Sometimes in the moment, a door will close and you think this is awful, and maybe another door opens and I was like, Okay, maybe this is where I'm supposed to be, and then that door closed and actually I wasn't supposed to be at Oregon State University. Then four years later I find out, oh that was okay, and now I'm here and I love this part of it. But then there's this other aspect of it. There's a lot of it can be toxic working in
reality TV. There's all these downsides of it. La that's a door that seems like it's closed there, but that opens something else. Some musician media friends of mine we were talking about earlier, Brian, who I was miserable for a period of time filming the show because I'm like, yeah, it's the closest thing to actually we really were trying. We would have a crew, we'd go as small as we could, we would be as cloak as we could, as stealth as possible. We're working with the confines of a
network and a production company. All of those limits, you feel really handicapped. When we got some traction and all of a sudden we were in this little budget, big ad dollar pop culture hit show. We got our contracts where we written number one thing nothing is fake. Number two, one of us gets to go and he really squatched without the whole camera. We like
took those moments to do that, but it was really hard. But I just I sit with that, remembering that one door closes, another one opens, and always look for that opportunity that is speaking to your heart and taking on your right path, because the universe, for whatever, is always trying to knock you off. If you're true to yourself, you're where you're supposed
to be. That's one of those things that Cliff and I've had so many conversations about in private, about the show and the ten years that you guys spent doing and the things that people don't get to see behind the scenes, and how that affected you guys in long term, even after the show went off the air. It's some amazing conversations with Cliff and I've had quite a few of those over drinks. I love the approach that you've always taken from
the skeptical science part of this. I am a very skeptical person. I thank you, and I talked about that in Tennessee. I had a guy on the show that I thought was going to tell me a Bigfoot encounter story, and I famously don't get into people's stories before they come on. I hear him for the first time, and he was a doctor who's a PhD in primatology, doctor Cherau, and he starts talking about the mythology of Bigfoot. It was clear to me very early on he didn't believe that Bigfoot was
an undiscovered biological species, very much like yourself. And we got into this conversation because it's difficult for me as a skeptic. I'm about eighty five percent there on Bigfoot. I haven't seen one, so I'm not one hundred percent there. And this is the problem I have with reconciling. I have friends, very close friends, people like Cliff he wrote the forward to my book, and I still can't be one hundred percent there with him in that these
things are real biological species. My show is based on encounter stories of people that I believe have had encounters with what they believe to be Bigfoot. How do you reconcile that as a person first and foremost that's into this and a scientist, how do you reconcile that part of it and separating the science from
the anecdotal stories and the people that are involved in these stories. So when I did a ten talk in naked to name them, and I'm like me as curiosity, he's driven my big foot and I basically in that talk, I think it was like twenty sixteen, was saying, I believe in the majority of reports I'm talking am I just all records coming in saying I not just sitting down and really analyzing. Because you have this shotgun thousands and thousands
of reports. I think majority of them are misapplication. I think then you have a section that are paradoilia. I think you have a section that people are called it medical. They're on something, or they have bad vision, are there excisoprenick, or they're hearing something. I think you have people who do hoaxes. And I stand by this because I remember the guy's always saying hoax. There's always going to come out brag about it. And I'm like,
so that's the best hoax. How long do you keep somebody believing it's real, The better you're laughing at home, sitting out your campfire or whatever. Run those together, and I stand by this. I think covers well in the upper nineties. I do roll all those away, though, roll all those up, and let's just say, like very tongue in cheek was like zero point zero whatever. At the end of the day, though, this is the part where I'm on this podcast with you guys and still talk
about this why I spend a decade of my life in the wood. At the end of the day, you cannot explain, not many of them, but they are are the ones you cannot find. You just cannot fun That's why I'm fascinated, and that's why the phenomena persists. Now let's bring this full struggle. How do I reconcile that as a scientist, science is a paradigm how I view the world. I treat it very much, not like just the subject that a kid might take in school, but it's also overb
how I approach album solving the scientific method as a trained scientist. This is one thing that bringing it back, Guys raising the bar, call out the big Foot community to employ the scientific method, own up on pseudo fallacies, and make yourself the best scientist, make yourself the best critical finger. So if you agree at have this belief that it's a biological species, go start
to hanging out with the groups. Think the other thing. Don't just put yourself in an echo chamber with everybody and give you a bunch of yes men, because then you're just falling flat. Not then you got a challenge and push. We used to pay that the earth was flat. We used to think on mythemocentric the some revolt around that earth constant, Like that's what the
scientific method is about. Retesting. You can see it in visits. Steenstein was so ahead of his time and using math, or even previous civilizations use math and science. They were onto something and then we test it and then maybe a new piece comes in and fits and the puzzle comes together, and you test it and you retest it, and you no hypothesis. You try to disprove it so that you prove your opinion. That brings me back to
multidisciplinary science is so important. That's answered from myself and more of a field than I am. It comes in from geology, it comes in from fisheries, sociology, animal behaviors. It's not just one field. You overlap them. It'll need to have disagreements to push. When somebody's going through their thesis or even to get their doctorate, they're going to go through that board and have their examine. They're going to test and they're going to fire at you.
And that's the point with done the scientific thing again, back to tennes d when you get the PhDs up here, real high and they're like stuck in their way. It used to be all the damn guys and now we're like, actually taking the wood out is bad. Leaving the wood in the system is actually more natural. It took forever as of those guys that they were educated and trained, and then they get up in the policy and they're making the decisions as the corporations. You're bringing the money, and who makes
the rules, who rights the regulations? To change that is a long frustrating process, but the data is shurely that's not the way to do it. That's to sciences and it's a process and it's method. You can apply that in the big world. Just to add to that, Brian, because I feel like I don't want to evade your question there. So yeah, I don't believe it's not discovered biological species. I'd love for it to be real. I would love nothing more to see a big thing. Everything that I've
seen or experience that resonates in flames. If you take again, I'm not going to be in an echo chamber and say I'm right and you're wrong, and throw your data out everything that of these strange reports that can't be anything else. You can't just throw them out. If I look get those, if I look at the whole historical record, which is the oral traditions of indigenous people around the world, you don't tell you the majority of them say
it's not a flesh and black animal, it's something beyond science. All of what you will. My big believes align much more in that realm than bioledropecs. Then of course everybody is, oh gee, she even they're normal. Googos told me he's seen uphos members of our crew while filming the show. We've seen odd lights. I've seen orbs. I've never seen a UFO. I've heard weird sounds. I've seen weird eyeshine. I've seen and experienced a lot of odd things. But track nerds, as I say it, nerd
affectionately, I'm a nerd myself. Track nerds are all like, look, here's physical evidence, and I'm like, okay, let's look at your back evidence. They're going crazy. And then I'm like, okay, now this is this track that there's no way to say it, but this track set now goes into a dry creek bed and then just stopped. How do you explain that so you don't cherry picked your datus So that then says it's something beyond. So that's why I lean in that. I believe Bier is something
beyond the current grass side. What that is, I don't know. But what I don't appreciate is in the Bigfoot community when somebody says it's this, and then they're just like mocking the other side. I'm like, then prove it. Then, who are you to tear that side down? Can't we all collectively work together. We're in this fringe community where we're getting people teasing us or rolling their eyes dat us. It's worked together tear each other down.
I'm all about humor and keeping it light. I'm gonna tell you when if you ask me. You asked me some UK Big Book questions and I was like, I gotta be honest with you. I just got to go
reor watch that episode. And then that, of course is you understand we film hours and hours and it gets edited down to this or sometimes what I'm saying some of those clips, we're talking about it weeks later, because do film it it's edited, we got to get a bite or word, and then it's I'm in a different lo or we're at a different location and filming some theater months weeks later. So yeah, I'm having a little PTSD. After that whole rewatching the episode, all of a sudden, I started getting
a flood of memories and to get the reference love that. I'm going to go now into the UK episodes, and it's my final topic before we go into the UK episodes of fund and book Foot, though, what is your favorite episode on finding book Foot? That is such a hard question because there's different favorites for different reasons. Here's where I got the best food, where I could get the best spa body treatment or something. Do you ever notice
those final night investigations or something. It would always be Cliff and I would have to do the hard fakes, so it would be like when I'm met amazing people. So many different reasons, there's not just one. I will say some of my favorites was going to Nepal was amazing. I'd always had wanted to go there. It was one of my bucket list items. I went early second we were done wrapping the other place and we knew we were
going to be going there. Nobody else was home for the break. And then I went and Paul early and hid and spent time and got acclimated. And then I went up to Bet and I went to the highest monastery world and saw the Holy Mother literally with my eyes up the watershed. And I'm a respiration to coologist. Watersheds are my being protecting watershed. That's what I'm about. So to see this ultimate watershed, I have a fossil here with him and and I out of that was just like the best, just the
random ones, really, the kids and amazing people that I met. Going to Bluff Creek with Bob Gimlin on horsebat the first time he'd ever been back there. It's like going to the Vatican with Oh, how do you beat that? I was really nerving out there, But it wasn't about the big foot aspect of it. It. It was Bob Gimblin had a lot of overlaps. He's this amazing sweet man and he's fatigue. I grew himself to thoughts. There's a lot of ranch ellas who are small, but they're just
snail powerhouses. And that's Bob. So he may not be tall in stature, but he's hour full and larger than life. And even though my dad was like six seven, there were just so many overlaps. They were both into up boxing, they both came from ranches and horses. They both have this daredevil evil can eevil overlap, and then they both were obviously bigfoot. Bob and I went on a walk. It was really funny because we landed.
Bob invited me out and went for a walk and had this beautiful little meeting and came back and he was I think the guys were ribbing me a little bit, and Bob was all protective of major. Really sweet. We're both in Washington State. I've just been so busy. It reminds me i Ney to shout out to him. I'm overdue for a non bigfoot conversation visit
to Bob. So off the top of my head, those are two that immediately jump out, But it's really about those town halls, meeting those kids for me, meeting all those junior fouture naturalists that have that look of wonder enthusiasm in their eyes and they want to go and find out a big bit ins themselves. That was my favorite part to be completely right. I think that's probably my favorite part seeing you guys with Bob in Bluff Creek. It
is incredible. I don't think you could ask for anything but on that put an honor. My last couple of questions for you is when you came over to the UK and you were filming find in Bigfoot. What were your impressions of Bigfoot in the UK? Always did our research going in. There's Lynn the folklore is too now. I love it. You can see her Impiranormal. I remember that show was coming out. Because I was under contract,
we could not do the show. But I actually suggested Lind to them and I was like, here's a fabulous folkloris and I love seeing how she has continued on the folklore behind the Green Man, Ben mc dewey and the Gray Man. It's up there. There's a history here by you guys soap down all your trees down there and build your houses. So even though his stories and reports go back to in fifteenth and sixteenth century, there's just no habitat.
In my opinion, I would think that i'd get over there. So coming down to your neck of the woods, I'm like, quarter connectivity is critical to all known species, whatever species you are, fox, Barau, whatever, quarter, connectivity is critical to your habitat survival. It would be so difficult down there in the southern part of the island. Now you get out to the Cairen Gorms, and that's so similar to the Pacific Northwest. I actually have a friend of mine from UNI to use the language back for
my college days. She's actually a scientist that's up there at Cromarty, right there at the outlet near Lackness ray Firth. So I'd went out to visit her, not while we were filming that time, but another time I went back to the UK and was able to visit with her. So, yeah, you have more habitat on the north part of your big island, but in the southern part. Yeah, I would be a little bit more skeptical. But then again, if you look at reports throughout the US, there's
these areas where there seems to be open space. But I think I was skeptical, but not cynical, and that's the difference. I always like to say this in an interview, Cynicism, zelotrykepticisms right there in the middle where you want to be. I do believe it or not still say, always question, We still look and make sure that the sources. Being a skeptic is a good thing. Now I'm always do in the forest out. I
think it goes to a lot of researchers. You've got that real skeptical and go hold on a minute, let's look around, let's look at all those possibilities that it could be. Moving on to my second question about the UK is did you find any specific evidence or any audio or anything that would support Bigfoot in the UK? Yes. I went in and rewatched that episode and
remembered for Bobo and Cliff and those kilts and all those midges. I remember those midges and you'll see lots of times if you were watching Finding Bigfoot that would put this scarf up. It would either be to be warm or to keep bugs off of me. I know that when Cliff and I heard a call, we watched it last night and it was so it's again. I can watch these episodes. I'll go. But when I first met you, you talked about a different Neil and I was like, oh, now,
I remember, so Hamish was who Bubba and Cliff did. The recreation went out to their location right off of black Ness starts with an a can't remember the name of it, but they went there and then we went further up in the karen Gorms. I went with Neil where he had that photo. How far was he from where it was? The straightaway? I remember that being there. I remember looking at the photo and seeing, in my opinion, I can roll up that's a person, and honestly that leans more towards
a person. I even just looking at it almost see like a hat. That was my take on that. But what I loved about Neil was I don't know then going with the other Neil trying to think of her. Two names still Young and Nail Robinson. Is it Robinson or Robson. Neil Young is the first guy that we went with Adam, because Neil O'Neil went with Adam to that location that Matt followed up with them. If I recall, it was a windy, cold night and nothing happened. But I'm just speaking
to what my experience was. The photo that I saw with Neil did not elicit anything with me to go WHOA, I can't explain that or when I followed up with Neil robs and I believe it is his name I am not accusing, just for the record, accusing Neil of making that story out. What I found interesting is it's so weird to be there and then see how it gets edited and make it look like really nice guy and I enjoyed visiting
with him. What I found so interesting was if I'm comback fishing shade fish a lot, and I'm with my friends and I screened to run, and you're on this elevated trail, Wooden trail, and I'm freaked out enough that I'm seeing I'm assuming he doesn't do this all the time. If you're doing something out of behavior that you're telling somebody to run in your panic, and then you get in the car and you don't have a conversation about it, That's what was so weird to me. That's what I couldn't figure out.
I don't know that's that funny with me. Or maybe everybody handles Tralla dress in different ways. Maybe he just should shut down in the car. I don't know. I also thought it was so largely they were saying nine ten over nine feet, they were paying more like nine to eleven. It's something that large over in that brush, not even just moving. Because Matt was I think could quickly move when I walked over there. You were just something that large. When it would step there, you would hear it moving.
I did love the habitat around there, and there's more habitat there once I was actually there. But to me, the real habitabit of Scotland. If you were large terrestrial and discovered species apex predator, I mean I'd be moving at Scotland. I just have so much more cover. But thank you, Renie. My final question for you, obviously I know a bit of background info here, but what are your future plans for the bigfoot community and conferences?
A dual bigfoot life, my bigfoot life. You're a big one's funny Bigfoot round. I needed to really heal my body. I was almost some stuff going on. I took a full year and a half off and then was ramping up heading into some other things, and then COVID hit And so now that we're out of COVID, I do have several projects going on that are on the down low. What I can say is very close to my
heart is anything that works with the indigenous community. I love that or habituation, repeat encounters people who very love somebody who can come out who is a scientist who knows how to do research, is not afraid will blindly go down a trail. But we'll also say nothing happened, or love to have me come out. So there's been some of that going on. I almost always have to sign NDAs on those. I keep very busy with my public speaking.
I do a few Bigfoot conferences, but I also stay really busy, as I spoke earlier at colleges, universities, the public circuit put my Really, my favorite thing is Danny. We've talked about this is to go to schools. So I work with Kerrie Byron from MythBusters. They have an event where explore media and have been bringing back basically a National Stem Challenge, and a first one is this year. I was supposed to be at, but
I'm going to be somewhere else anyway. Timing didn't work on that. But really, one of the dearest things to my heart is to go to schools, whether it's elementary, middle school, high school, and talk to the kids about what is big Foot more than anything, to challenge them to raise the bar. Thankfully your well, don't take the low hanging root. Also, using your phone, be kind how do you communicate, how do you
exchange information? There's such a desperate your need for that right now in our society, we can have respectful, intelligent conversation just because you know, you think it's a biological species. I think that it's something beyond whether it's you know, a spirit or an alien. But I lean more towards that, But I still don't know. Don't pitch them on the conversations we need to be having to say you don't know something is okay. That's really one of
my favorite things to do. And I also work for my sanity and like to keep my toe in the scientific community. So I help peer review on basically anything that's with brown bears or the watershed restoration, the Klimath. I was a part of the lad Anim local project. I was part of this ongoing movement study and then now the Klimath is coming out, so I still
work with them. And then of course EDNA is involving, so there is the EDNA Collaborative University of Washington with Ryan Kelly and Kira or part of that. So people are always asking me. So I've been coming in and asking them, Okay, how do I count unicate and share to make sure that people are so much with the new science. Holding those feet to the fire. If you will big feet to the fire, if you will holding the feed to the fire. Sure it's not junk science. Making sure it is
good scientific. Peer repeats science, because as technology increases is what happens. Everybody just like starts getting their fingers on it and they can go awry. In a RP definitely, I will mention run A to all our UK friends. Run A will be over here for a VRP event at the end of April. It's called the Bigfoot Bush Sunday, the twenty eighth of April. Tickets are all over online. Run As posted it on her page. It's all over our pages. I'm really looking forward to that and there's a big
announcement on that day. Yeah. I got to say this, the way that this all organically happened, and how quickly this came about having to try to juggle and move things so for so long. There are so many fans, friends, researchers out there that they're saying, are you ever going to come over? Okay, we're coming over myself, Ryan is coming and Running's going to be there. We're going to have your little our team ready.
We all looking forward to it definitely. I hope all of you are there, Roddie, Brian, this has been an incredible podcast, Brian, I think you can agree with me absolutely. Renee never disappoints, so thank you so much for your time and spending as much time as you did with us and answering all the questions that are probably burning in people's minds. So we definitely appreciate it. Let's put those fires out today. Anyway. I look forward to crossing paths with you both again soon. Brian. Oh, not
this much time to know. I need to get back to you. I am so behind getting on podcasts. I'm just trying to put everything in order will make it happening for those in the United States, particularly the Southeast. We will all be together once again in June. June the eighth, will all be down at the Okalla Bigfoot Conference. Russell Acord, Renee Holland RPG's going to be there, Matt prud Our buddy, Matt, Adam Davies, myself and of course Daniel will be there as well. I think we're going
to have Connor Flynn on the stage as well. Tons of people So if you guys want to check out the Great Florida Bigfoot Conference, you can get that on Gather Up Events and get your tickets. There's still tickets available for that and you can come and hang out with all of us on June the eighth in Florida. Yeah, and for those that are stateside, I will be in ST's Park, Colorado on the nineteenth and twentieth. The nineteenth is
a private event that's a VIP meet and greet on the nineteenth. On the twentieth is the public event, free to the public at St. Park, Colorado, and that will be Russ, Ronnie and myself than other vendors. And that is actually one that that organizer reached out to me years ago, and I'm just now I'm literally getting through emails now. I'm still trying to get through emails from and a lot. It's nice to double back through working with late. It's like, hey, yeah, it's like, why is
that name so familiar? Here? You come back. I have some of years later on just a big foot community right here. Otherwise just it could take you over. It could take you over. And I still have some other things keep me busy. But I look forward to seeing you in June, if not sooner. So I'm good chat with you both, and I look forward to more soon. They say, you don't gotta go home,
but you can't stay, and I don't want to be alone. We're lopping chot this job that chart everything right back Joy for me, Joy stay right there, come in right away. Stills still States s still starts said, says side still stay still sustas still the States as sssssst